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(McClatchy DC)   US to Egypt: Hey, good news, we're about to give you a $1 billion aid package. Egypt: Good news here too. We've just sentenced 683 political opponents to death. US: We'll get back to you   (mcclatchydc.com) divider line 79
    More: Asinine, Egypt, aid package, Supreme Leader of Iran, human rights laws, judicial independence, Jim Clyburn, dissidents, African-American Republicans  
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4147 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2014 at 10:28 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 12:22:27 AM

SquiggsIN: I'm pretty sure there are some domestic investments our taxes could be funding instead. (perhaps getting all the bridges and dams up to code?)


Yep, drove over the Tappen Zee Bridge going to NJ this weekend. My boyfriend was laughing at me for being terrified until I noted they were building a new bridge because that one is literally falling apart and HUGE.
 
2014-04-29 12:24:23 AM

CruJones: The only aid we should give to anyone is food.


Like all the crops that farmers get paid to not grow, destroy, or just fined for. That'd help a lot.
 
2014-04-29 12:30:32 AM

SquiggsIN: Yes.  Buying friends has worked out so well for us, historically.

Why is it that our government thinks it's okay to give billions away to other countries when we have plenty at home that we can't pay for?

NO FOREIGN AID from tax dollars.  NONE.  I'm not anti-humanitarian, I just think that if American citizens want to donate to people elsewhere that it should be done privately.  I'm pretty sure there are some domestic investments our taxes could be funding instead.  (perhaps getting all the bridges and dams up to code?)


Because perhaps it is cheaper to spend a few billion in aid than hundreds of billions on a war. Buying influence is likely cheaper than taking it forcefully. That is the only reason I can think of for foreign aid, not saying that it is money well spent though, just that it might be.
 
2014-04-29 12:40:46 AM
The Egyptian people themselves loathe the Brotherhood. We should actually listen to them, instead of what makes Kerry & Obama feel good today.
 
2014-04-29 12:44:13 AM
So the convictions are automatic, the penalties are final (by that I mean death), but hey don't jump to conclusions because they may luck out during the appeals process and only get life in prison. Beacon of regional intellectualism. Got it.
 
2014-04-29 12:47:03 AM

Khazar-Khum: The Egyptian people themselves loathe the Brotherhood. We should actually listen to them, instead of what makes Kerry & Obama feel good today.


You should be President and Secretary of State.  That's how awesome you are.
 
2014-04-29 12:47:35 AM

fusillade762: revrendjim: We should not support barbaric backwards regimes that still have the death penalty.

And those with a disproportionate percentage of their population in jail.


[seewhatyoudidthere.jpg]
 
2014-04-29 12:52:33 AM

Karma Curmudgeon: Don't call it a coup d'etat, they've been there for years.


Denyin' appeals and puttin' suckas in fear!
 
2014-04-29 12:53:41 AM

DigitalCoffee: Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy, who is in Washington for a visit this week, invoked the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay to counter U.S. criticism of Egypt's crackdown on Brotherhood members and opposition activists.


[3.bp.blogspot.com image 450x450]

[www.justjen.com image 500x400]


But I was assured that the Patriot Act would never, ever come back to bite us.
 
2014-04-29 01:25:42 AM
Don't be a pussy. We're all better off.
 
2014-04-29 01:38:16 AM

SquiggsIN: Eps05: Gyrfalcon: SithLord: Good job Egypt.  Eradicate the Muslim Brotherhood and restore peace and order to your realm.  Naturally, Obama has a problem with that.

Yeah, wholesale executions of one's political opponents (and even genuine terrorists) has historically restored peace and order to realms.

Not sure if sarcastic....

Because.. It kinda has. It's immoral but it has prolonged the reign of many autocracies.

It's also Imperialism 101.  and history is littered with empires, right?


The more you tighten your grip, SithLord, the more Egyptians will slip through your fingers.
 
2014-04-29 02:55:33 AM

chetbango: SquiggsIN: Yes.  Buying friends has worked out so well for us, historically.

Why is it that our government thinks it's okay to give billions away to other countries when we have plenty at home that we can't pay for?

NO FOREIGN AID from tax dollars.  NONE.  I'm not anti-humanitarian, I just think that if American citizens want to donate to people elsewhere that it should be done privately.  I'm pretty sure there are some domestic investments our taxes could be funding instead.  (perhaps getting all the bridges and dams up to code?)

Because perhaps it is cheaper to spend a few billion in aid than hundreds of billions on a war. Buying influence is likely cheaper than taking it forcefully. That is the only reason I can think of for foreign aid, not saying that it is money well spent though, just that it might be.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell, although hopefully helping the government receiving the foreign aid improve the lot of its citizens is kind of part of the idea--its the carrot part of the carrot-and-stick.

The idea that "let's not give those meanies any money, let's spend it on ourselves" only works if you're one of those people who believe that America exists in a bubble and needs absolutely nothing from any other nation on earth--not good will, not trade, and needs fear no attack from any other nation ever. Admittedly, foreign aid often alienates as many people as it encourages; but the fact remains that being nice to people is better in the long run than greedily sitting in a corner counting your money and saying "Oh, fix your own problems, we've got our own."
 
2014-04-29 03:09:01 AM

Daedalus27: What process? 683 defendants, 9 minute trial. Hell they couldn't read out all the names of the defendants in 9 minutes. There was no process, just a decision by the military controlling Egypt to round up and kill the usual suspects.


You got all the way through the article and missed the third paragraph?

On Monday, he commuted 492 of those sentences to life in prison and confirmed 39 death sentences.

This will happen again in this case. It's a bizarre form of "justice" to us, but there really were multiple civil wars in Egypt in the last few years, and that doesn't just go away because there's a shaky peace now.

Loren: And of course Obama has trouble with that--he suffers from a usual problem of the left, an inflated sense of what diplomacy can do.


And of course the right has an inflated sense of what guns and bombs can do. Really, some men you just can't reach, that's the way they like it, and that's the way they get it.

I'm not sure what position cultural takeover is, but that seems to be the most effective long-term negotiating strategy.
 
2014-04-29 03:51:12 AM

foxyshadis: Daedalus27: What process? 683 defendants, 9 minute trial. Hell they couldn't read out all the names of the defendants in 9 minutes. There was no process, just a decision by the military controlling Egypt to round up and kill the usual suspects.

You got all the way through the article and missed the third paragraph?

On Monday, he commuted 492 of those sentences to life in prison and confirmed 39 death sentences.

This will happen again in this case. It's a bizarre form of "justice" to us, but there really were multiple civil wars in Egypt in the last few years, and that doesn't just go away because there's a shaky peace now.


I got that, but it also said that they don't know who was commuted and who still is getting death.  There is no procedure or process, it is merely announcing what the government has decided.  It is shiat like this that causes civil wars.  I understand not wanting to give the Muslim brotherhood a platform or increased notoriety, but this system is just creating a few more martyrs and virtually guaranteeing that Sisi is going to end up with a bullet at some point just like Sadat.
 
2014-04-29 05:40:26 AM

Mugato: We'll still give them the money. Have to.


Its Egypt, not Israel.
 
2014-04-29 05:53:11 AM
Hey 'Murica.

I heard you were hurting for cash, brah.
Why do you keep sending billions of dollars to countries full of crazy people?

Sorry, 'crazier' people.
 
2014-04-29 07:26:43 AM

Old Man Winter: Mugato: We'll still give them the money. Have to.

Its Egypt, not Israel.


Why do you think we give money to Egypt? So they don't attack Israel.
 
2014-04-29 07:39:30 AM
700 people sentenced to death in 8 minute trial. Seems legit.
 
2014-04-29 08:11:20 AM

Daedalus27: I understand not wanting to give the Muslim brotherhood a platform or increased notoriety, but this system is just creating a few more martyrs and virtually guaranteeing that Sisi is going to end up with a bullet at some point just like Sadat.


Ooh, ooh, I know! We'll get Sisi and Netanyahu to come to Camp David and promise them endless mountains of money for their police-state apparatus(es) if they pretend to make nice.

Gyrfalcon: The idea that "let's not give those meanies any money, let's spend it on ourselves" only works if you're one of those people who believe that America exists in a bubble and needs absolutely nothing from any other nation on earth--not good will, not trade, and needs fear no attack from any other nation ever. Admittedly, foreign aid often alienates as many people as it encourages; but the fact remains that being nice to people is better in the long run than greedily sitting in a corner counting your money and saying "Oh, fix your own problems, we've got our own."


There's being nice to people...and then there's being a chump.

We've tried throwing money at the crazy people for over 30 years. All it did was paper over the dispute, and still farksticks like Mohammed Atta got loose and started shiat with us.

(spittlefleckedrant) Fark 'em. Fark 'em all. I say we give the interested parties until September 11th to learn how to coexist peacefully, or we carpet-bomb every house of worship in the reason with pr0n and bacon-fat and Droney McHellfire starts zapping every imam, rabbi and gibbering hater in our intel database. (/spittlefleckedrant)
 
2014-04-29 09:28:04 AM

MichiganFTL: There is no possible way we could put that money to better use for U.S. interests by spending it at home. None. At least this way we're building some new palaces for people to allow us to spend many more billions to look the other way as we station air force bases there in the future.


AFAIK you are kinda spending it at home. I believe the money is tied up in the US millitary industry.

Obviously Egypt uses these weapons to put down Islamic Extremists, and, not being sarcastic, actually securing the border with Israel.

---

My own country is usually a bit more broad in their donations, in that 50% of it just have to be spend in Denmark. Its still a financial waste for the recipient because the things they want might be cheaper in their own country, but at least they get to choose between LEGO bricks, wind turbines or bacon.
 
2014-04-29 09:35:11 AM
That comes to about $1.5 million per Islamist head.  I'd think we could get a better bulk rate deal than that.
 
rpl
2014-04-29 09:41:13 AM

Khazar-Khum: The Egyptian people themselves loathe the Brotherhood. We should actually listen to them, instead of what makes Kerry & Obama feel good today.


You mean the people that voted the brotherhood in, the minute the opportunity presented itself?
 
2014-04-29 09:54:32 AM

Arkanaut: Loren: The Muslim Brotherhood pretends to be moderates. We saw what they were really after in Egypt--and it wasn't moderate. The military had finally had enough and threw them out--at which point they went into armed rebellion. The rebellion was put down, these are the combatants and their leaders.

Well, the Brotherhood wasn't moderate or fair to the other parties in the government, but they weren't militants either. That's not saying much, but I don't think it's worth executing them by the hundreds either.


Except they turned into militants when they didn't get their way peacefully.  Did you not hear of all the fighting over there?

foxyshadis: Loren: And of course Obama has trouble with that--he suffers from a usual problem of the left, an inflated sense of what diplomacy can do.

And of course the right has an inflated sense of what guns and bombs can do. Really, some men you just can't reach, that's the way they like it, and that's the way they get it.


Agreed.  The right makes the opposite mistakes of the left.  They are generally even more wrong.
 
2014-04-29 10:01:02 AM
The people who allowed this to happen will themselves be sentenced to death at some point.  Most likely by the next regime to take power.  And we should all have no sympathy for them.
 
2014-04-29 10:16:26 AM

SlothB77: 700 people sentenced to death in 8 minute trial. Seems legit.


The prosecutor spoke quickly.
 
2014-04-29 10:22:14 AM

Loren: Except they turned into militants when they didn't get their way peacefully.  Did you not hear of all the fighting over there?


Before or after the coup? Also, is there evidence that the people who have been sentenced were actually involved?
 
2014-04-29 10:35:02 AM
Hopefully the cheque doesn't bounce.
 
2014-04-29 12:52:59 PM

Daedalus27: I love the quotes at the end of the article:

"Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy, who is in Washington for a visit this week, invoked the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay to counter U.S. criticism of Egypt's crackdown on Brotherhood members and opposition activists.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/04/28/225820/white-house-deeply-troub l ed-by.html#storylink=cpy
He said the legal process should be allowed to follow through, and no one should jump to any conclusions yet."

What process?  683 defendants, 9 minute trial.  Hell they couldn't read out all the names of the defendants in 9 minutes.  There was no process, just a decision by the military controlling Egypt to round up and kill the usual suspects.

The Muslim Brotherhood certainly was consolidating power and planning on imposing control on Egypt before they were overthrown. I don't know that it undermined democracy by removing a budding dictatorship.  The Egyptian military certainly isn't much better and it is unlikely that the election supervised and controlled by the military will be anything but a rubber stamp.  Is a semi-secular dictatorship better than an Islamic dictatorship?  I guess it depends on your values.  The Coptic minority is probably a little more pleased but the military hasn't exactly been protecting the minority in the face of violence by the more extremist Islamic elements.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/04/28/225820/white-house-deeply-troubl ed-by.html#storylink=cpy


My immediate thoughts were similar.  How do you make the disaster that is the indefinite internment of prisoners at Guantanamo bay and the Patriot Act look good?  Compare them to a 9 minute trial that condemns almost 700 people to execution.
 
2014-04-29 12:57:39 PM
Why are we giving away money when this country isn't fixed? I wish we could impeach Odumbo.
 
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