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(Yahoo)   HBO lights a fire under George R.R. Martin's beard and says "Write faster" (possible spoilers)   (ca.celebrity.yahoo.com) divider line 270
    More: Followup, George R. R. Martin, Game of Thrones, HBO, respiratory rates  
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9275 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 1:09 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 02:08:32 PM  

meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.


****WHEEL OF TIME BOOK 10 SPOILERS IN SPECTACULAR FASHION****

Keep in mind, I am not telling you to like the book AND I think books 9 and 10 could be condensed iunto 1 book (ala Matrin and books 4 and 5 of his series) I *AM* pointing out that it's character development that happens. The big event at Shador Logoth being the finale of book 9.

Mat and Tuon are courting. You are reading a mating dance. happened in books 3 and 4 with Perrin and Faile (and various books with Rand and his harem). Perrin scouting out the Shaido and in the course of this and book 11 becoming the leader he needs to be for his people.

It's the least eventful no doubt. It's all about whether you enjoy the world at that point and want to see character development without key plot points being 100% resolved.
 
2014-04-29 02:15:09 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: It's the least eventful no doubt. It's all about whether you enjoy the world at that point and want to see character development without key plot points being 100% resolved.


The problem is that the prior 6 books were nearly as slow at the same time.
 
2014-04-29 02:16:23 PM  
The entire Wheel of Time series should be considered a rough draft. It should be edited down and released as a 5 book series. The original releases should be forgotten.
 
2014-04-29 02:20:07 PM  

meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.


Are you talking about Crossroads of Twilight, oh yeah that is where I gave up.
 
2014-04-29 02:21:17 PM  

bhcompy: Jim from Saint Paul: It's the least eventful no doubt. It's all about whether you enjoy the world at that point and want to see character development without key plot points being 100% resolved.

The problem is that the prior 6 books were nearly as slow at the same time.


Disagreed. Books 4,5 and 6 for sure had key set pieces that moved the plot and characters along fine. 7/9 and 9/10 with proper editng could ave been one book a piece. Path of Daggers and Winters Heart were both very good books that had key plotlines moved along as well. It's books 7 and 10 that dragged. Heck, even Jordan said he was trying to basically do what Martin did because he had to (split the books around and goof with the timeline) on purpose because he thought it would work. He admitted it didn;t work nearly as well as he liked.(not finding citation on that though...)
 
2014-04-29 02:28:41 PM  

shortymac: meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.

Are you talking about Crossroads of Twilight, oh yeah that is where I gave up.


Go back in. 11 is where the plot started moving again.

And then Sanderson took over and it got good.

Though skip Perrin until 13 and Egwene until 12.
 
2014-04-29 02:42:47 PM  

Gunther: It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not


That sounds more like the sort of nonsense they teach in film writing (like the three-act structure).  Yes, Some potboiler authors alternate fast and slow, but really good novelists can amp up the intensity... or just let the book carry you along, like floating in a stream (Ray Bardbury was amazing at that in his later novels).
 
2014-04-29 03:01:30 PM  

meyerkev: shortymac: meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.

Are you talking about Crossroads of Twilight, oh yeah that is where I gave up.

Go back in. 11 is where the plot started moving again.

And then Sanderson took over and it got good.

Though skip Perrin until 13 and Egwene until 12.


Skip Perrin till 13? So don;t read half of 11 and the Shaido camp bit? Really?
 
2014-04-29 03:45:08 PM  

meyerkev: shortymac: meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.

Are you talking about Crossroads of Twilight, oh yeah that is where I gave up.

Go back in. 11 is where the plot started moving again.

And then Sanderson took over and it got good.

Though skip Perrin until 13 and Egwene until 12.


Quite frankly I'm scared to read it again, I love Jordan's world but book 10 just dragged on so much I gave up.

Also, as a chick Jordan's portrayal of women started to tick me off a bit, it seems like they never matured. Especially Egwene's storyline, why the hell did she do what she did at the end of 10?

If you are a leader you just don't do that shiat.
 
2014-04-29 03:50:25 PM  

Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.


Oh?  How is obsidian made?
 
2014-04-29 04:07:19 PM  

Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?


Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.
 
2014-04-29 04:29:48 PM  

shortymac: meyerkev: shortymac: meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.

Are you talking about Crossroads of Twilight, oh yeah that is where I gave up.

Go back in. 11 is where the plot started moving again.

And then Sanderson took over and it got good.

Though skip Perrin until 13 and Egwene until 12.

Quite frankly I'm scared to read it again, I love Jordan's world but book 10 just dragged on so much I gave up.

Also, as a chick Jordan's portrayal of women started to tick me off a bit, it seems like they never matured. Especially Egwene's storyline, why the hell did she do what she did at the end of 10?

If you are ...


Women of power in that world are just like the majority of men in other series. They are oafish, barely ever mature within the series and are still totally in charge.

Ancd Egwene did it because she's an egotistical 19 year old who is considered the leader of the free world to tens of thousands of people. She screwed up.
 
2014-04-29 04:38:04 PM  

Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.


Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?
 
2014-04-29 04:41:03 PM  

Slow To Return: Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.

Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?


Oh.......  How is obsidian made in the book?
 
2014-04-29 04:43:08 PM  

Slow To Return: Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.

Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?


Because you did read it.
 
2014-04-29 05:02:41 PM  

Strik3r: Oh....... How is obsidian made in the book?


Yea, in the spirit of answering this question:

And I am sure I missed what the heroes are supposed to actually do. What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?

I am just kind of wondering if making a bunch of dragonglass might be on someone's to-do list.
 
2014-04-29 05:18:04 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.

Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?

Because you did read it.


Your link doesn't say what you think it says.

"Obsidian. Forged in the fires of the gods, far below the earth. The hunted with that, thousands of years ago. The children worked no metal . . . In place of swords, they carried blades of obsidian."
-Maester Luwin

The only place we know of that has obsidian veins is Dragonstone, which is an active island volcano.
 
2014-04-29 05:21:21 PM  

redmid17: Jim from Saint Paul: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.

Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?

Because you did read it.

Your link doesn't say what you think it says.

"Obsidian. Forged in the fires of the gods, far below the earth. The hunted with that, thousands of years ago. The children worked no metal . . . In place of swords, they carried blades of obsidian."
-Maester Luwin

The only place we know of that has obsidian veins is Dragonstone, which is an active island volcano.


My apologies for not being clear. I was suggesting that the poster had read it before, not that he was correct. I can see how an extra sentence would have made that clear.

At best, it's unclear if dragons can do it. It's probably unfounded rumor, nothing more.
 
2014-04-29 06:56:18 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: meyerkev: patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.

I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.

****WHEEL OF TIME BOOK 10 SPOILERS IN SPECTACULAR FASHION****

Keep in mind, I am not telling you to like the book AND I think books 9 and 10 could be condensed iunto 1 book (ala Matrin and books 4 and 5 of his series) I *AM* pointing out that it's character development that happens. The big event at Shador Logoth being the finale of book 9.

Mat and Tuon are courting. You are reading a mating dance. happened in books 3 and 4 with Perrin and Faile (and various books with Rand and his harem). Perrin scouting out the Shaido and in the course of this and book 11 becoming ...


So it's a romance novel in a fantasy setting? I'm not sure that's a selling point...
 
2014-04-29 07:29:28 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: redmid17: Jim from Saint Paul: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Slow To Return: Strik3r: Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.

Oh?  How is obsidian made?

Obsidian is a naturally occurring Volcanic glass formed as an extrusive igneous rock.

Why do I recall reading that the only fire hot enough to create obsidian is the breath of dragons?

Because you did read it.

Your link doesn't say what you think it says.

"Obsidian. Forged in the fires of the gods, far below the earth. The hunted with that, thousands of years ago. The children worked no metal . . . In place of swords, they carried blades of obsidian."
-Maester Luwin

The only place we know of that has obsidian veins is Dragonstone, which is an active island volcano.

My apologies for not being clear. I was suggesting that the poster had read it before, not that he was correct. I can see how an extra sentence would have made that clear.

At best, it's unclear if dragons can do it. It's probably unfounded rumor, nothing more.


Ah sorry I clearly did not catch that.
 
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