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(Yahoo)   HBO lights a fire under George R.R. Martin's beard and says "Write faster" (possible spoilers)   (ca.celebrity.yahoo.com) divider line 270
    More: Followup, George R. R. Martin, Game of Thrones, HBO, respiratory rates  
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9274 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 1:09 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-28 08:40:34 PM  

Sypad: Slow To Return: Sypad: The spoiler is that the name attributed to the white walker in the (since changed) HBO synopsis was used by GRRM in the books to refer to someone who was not (at least at the time) a white walker. So the implication is "that person GRRM mentioned became the King of the Night Walkers."Of course, HBO could have removed the reference just because they realized the implication of what they wrote, not because the implication is true. So, it is just speculation, and relevant only to the book readers.

So when you saw a white walker wearing a crown, you just thought, "Hey, that's weird."

Most viewers (both book readers and not) would probably think, "Oh neat, so there is a chief white walker." The association with the term "the Night King" from the episode summary was identifying the chief walker with a pre-existing character.

I'm taking the maybe-spoiler with a pretty big grain of salt, though, based on my interpretation of the books. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out!

// Doesn't have HBO but reads episode reviews, has read all the books

bhcompy:

I think that's the point.  ASoIaF is a response to the really awful state fantasy was in in the 80s and 90s with Dragonlance, Feist, Goodkind, etc.  Making it more real and less magical is what sold people on the books initially.

A bit off topic, but I thought Feist's last trilogy (where he wrapped up the Riftwar Cycle that he'd been writing for 30 odd years) was one of his strongest. That won't matter if you're a "I never liked his stuff" reader, but if you are a "His early stuff was pretty good" reader, you might enjoy them.


yeeeeeah, It is the same damn trilogy written yet again. He is as bad as David Eddings.
 
2014-04-28 08:41:54 PM  

InmanRoshi: spamdog: One question I have is how much you can write about dragons burning things before you're sick of it? How many synonyms for "cold" is the next book going to need?

You're talking about an author who writes 10 meandering pages detailing what a character has for breakfast and spends multiple books with a POV character aimlessly wandering around in a circle.    He doesn't give a fark.


Hey it's that guy! Good thing you're here to shiat on everything, this discussion was way to civil and entertaining. We needed some dishonest hyperbole and poutrage to round this puppy into shape. You're doing the gods work, GoT troll. The gods work.

/we get it, you don't like fantasy, or Martin, or anything but whatever niche genre hipster shiat you're into, feel free to gtfo and go discuss that with someone else
 
2014-04-28 08:45:05 PM  

Rozotorical: nocturnal001: bhcompy: error 303: How is Malazan Tale of the Fallen? It's been on my radar for awhile but I've never got around to it...

The Malazan series is easily my favorite piece of literature.  Martin's world building and politicking with Glen Cook's characterizations and dialog.  The first book is the worst book, which makes it hard to start, but it's amazing.

Well said. Book 1 had me wondering what I was doing until halfway through. The Chain of Dogs was some of the most compelling stuff I've read. I absolutely hated the Edur vs Letheri war until about 2/3 through then I wound up really enjoying it.

Book 1 was originally written as a screen play, so that is why it is a bit rough around the edges.  Still enjoyed it but it takes first couple hundred to get caught up.


I didn't enjoy the first book. I couldn't connect with anybody in it and found the writing and characters flat. But I read the second book because everybody said, "Oh, the first one isn't so good, but they get better."

Then I read the second one and really liked it.

So I read the third and it was back to solid meh again. But I forced myself on because I'd been told, again, that they got better.

Then I got into the fourth and it was great again for the first third, then trailed away into something so bad I couldn't finish it and I gave up on the series.

Alot of people love these books, but I'm not one of them. I started figuring out I could waste alot of time finishing the series when I could better spend my reading time on other books.
 
2014-04-28 08:45:17 PM  

Semper IvXx: /we get it, you don't like fantasy, or Martin, or anything but whatever niche genre hipster shiat you're into, feel free to gtfo and go discuss that with someone else


can you not, please
 
2014-04-28 08:48:42 PM  

Semper IvXx: InmanRoshi: spamdog: One question I have is how much you can write about dragons burning things before you're sick of it? How many synonyms for "cold" is the next book going to need?

You're talking about an author who writes 10 meandering pages detailing what a character has for breakfast and spends multiple books with a POV character aimlessly wandering around in a circle.    He doesn't give a fark.

Hey it's that guy! Good thing you're here to shiat on everything, this discussion was way to civil and entertaining. We needed some dishonest hyperbole and poutrage to round this puppy into shape. You're doing the gods work, GoT troll. The gods work.

/we get it, you don't like fantasy, or Martin, or anything but whatever niche genre hipster shiat you're into, feel free to gtfo and go discuss that with someone else


Seconded.

I've loved reading every word of every one of the books and can't wait for the next one to come out.

I guess as always, haters gonna hate.

/TV show is fantastic too
 
2014-04-28 09:14:23 PM  

Semper IvXx: Good thing you're here to shiat on everything, this discussion was way to civil and entertaining.


Cymbal: haters gonna hate


Why do we need to do this fascist fanboy thing?
It's possible to be a big fan of something and also be a very vocal critic.
If frank discussion of a creative work offends you so, perhaps you should stop going on discussion forums and stick to consuming the marketing and advertising instead?
 
2014-04-28 09:22:20 PM  

bborchar: Well, I'm actually starting to wonder if we are even going to see Coldhands in the show or not, because they've worked him out of the story so far. If he doesn't show up, then we'll all know that he's not really anyone important, I guess.


And yet they complain that the show is going to end too soon. If they'd stop cutting important shiat and stop trying to turn it into every other cinematic adaptation by incessantly making shiat up to compensate for the shiat they cut, they wouldn't find themselves in a pickle.

//but of course the show is better because someone's actually going to listen to exposition when there are fake lesbians on screen
 
2014-04-28 09:24:55 PM  

Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

So you're willing to accept quick summaries in lieu of well-written and engaging prose, then?  Just as happy to read the cliff notes as the novel?

Good to know I can safely ignore your opinions on literature in the future.


But of course. He knows you can skip book X because he knows how it ends and what happens next.
 
2014-04-28 09:30:19 PM  
The dragons are coming I swear
And I've just ordered two...no three pizzas...South Park was dead on about this guy
 
2014-04-28 09:32:10 PM  

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: You're all going to be pissed off at the end.

Jon Snow marries Daenerys Targaryen. The Others show up and kill everyone.

/It'll be called the White Wedding.


Billy idol is gonna be pissed
 
2014-04-28 09:37:54 PM  

error 303: nocturnal001: Is anyone else noticing that the show is actually starting to diverge from the books in important ways?

I could use a re-read of the book for a refresher but I'm still trying to wrap up the MalazanTale of the Fallen series, and people keep yelling at me to read the Wheel of Time.

How is Malazan Tale of the Fallen? It's been on my radar for awhile but I've never got around to it...

I enjoyed the first and second Wheel of Time books, but by about book 5 they were so utterly frustrating and boring I just couldn't imagine reading the last four or eight or twenty or however many books that series went...

The Tale of the Fallen rocks. Quite a few books in the series and sometimes frusterating to read...Different authors have worked on the series. These are  imho, better than a few of the main books.
 
2014-04-28 09:42:48 PM  

moothemagiccow: bborchar: Well, I'm actually starting to wonder if we are even going to see Coldhands in the show or not, because they've worked him out of the story so far. If he doesn't show up, then we'll all know that he's not really anyone important, I guess.

And yet they complain that the show is going to end too soon. If they'd stop cutting important shiat and stop trying to turn it into every other cinematic adaptation by incessantly making shiat up to compensate for the shiat they cut, they wouldn't find themselves in a pickle.

//but of course the show is better because someone's actually going to listen to exposition when there are fake lesbians on screen


...Who the hell is complaining about that?  Coldhands wasn't that damn important in the book- people have just made him way more important than he actually is by surmising that he's Benjen or the Night's King.  Well, he could never have been Benjen (he's too old) and by all accounts, we've now seen the Night's King, so what's left for Coldhands to do that can't be done by other means and give Bran something interesting to do for once?  It makes sense that the Night's Watch would want to get the mutineers, it makes sense that Bran would be near the keep, and it makes sense that Jon would want to see if he could find Bran there.  Bran already knows where he has to go, so what does adding in one more superfluous character add to a story that is already full of them?

In any case, if you don't like the show, no one is forcing you to watch it.  Unless you like to whine in public forums about shows you don't like.
 
2014-04-28 09:47:02 PM  

bborchar: ...Who the hell is complaining about that?


...you were
 
2014-04-28 09:47:48 PM  
Reddit users laugh at the concept of government surveillance as "lazy".
 
2014-04-28 09:51:08 PM  

moothemagiccow: bborchar: ...Who the hell is complaining about that?

...you were


You must have absolutely terrible reading comprehension.
 
2014-04-28 09:52:24 PM  

JolobinSmokin: So have Tavi gotten control of his fury's yet?

I haven't watched this season.


You magnificent bastard! I liked that series muchly.
 
2014-04-28 10:09:39 PM  

Leosmom1: The dragons are coming I swear
And I've just ordered two...no three pizzas...South Park was dead on about this guy


We've had dragons, And the vast and massive city was pretty awesome two episodes ago.

What people don't understand is that HBO is bigger than GRRM.  They've contracted for a series and they will get an ending, which is why Martin has admitted it may not be the ending to the books.

/they learned that lesson with that hooplehead Milch.
 
2014-04-28 10:59:48 PM  
img2.wikia.nocookie.net

HAI GUYZ...


OH...You meant "Nights King"...Not....Uhmm...Nevermind.
 
2014-04-28 11:13:41 PM  

Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.


It's generally accepted that the first 3 books are classics but the last 2 books are crap.
 
2014-04-29 12:10:41 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.

It's generally accepted that the first 3 books are classics but the last 2 books are crap.


I think the four and five are going to seem better once (if) the series is complete. So much happened in book three that the next book had to build the action up again. And four and five are really just one big book. One big book that could have used some trimming, true, but the slower pace was necessary.
 
2014-04-29 12:23:33 AM  
Given the pace of the show vs the pace of Martin's writing, my money is on the show finishing the story first, followed by not-so-subtle hints that the final book plays out differently than the show, making for crazy book sales when it comes out later. Win-win for everybody.
 
2014-04-29 01:20:43 AM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Indeed. The gf keeps badgering me about reading the series, but all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.


This is why I hate the douches who act like everyone who hasn't read the books is illiterate.  I haven't read the books.  They started coming out in '96, after I'd already read Tolkien, The Belgariad, Tad Williams, and a bunch of other doorstoppers.  I didn't want to read Game of Thrones until the series was done.  Now its almost twenty years later and I feel like I made the right decision, especially in light of Jordan's death.   Now that the books are a TV series, I'd rather just watch the show and not spoil myself with the books, especially since they're still not finished.
 
2014-04-29 01:45:43 AM  

Superjew: well-written and engaging prose


blog.angelatung.com
 
2014-04-29 02:22:16 AM  
quizzical: but the slower pace was necessary.

There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.  You ever done the thing where you stopped reading for 5 seconds to digest?

No?

May I suggest you go back to Dr. Seuss?

Crappy writing is crappy. No one needs hundreds of pages of nothing happening. We have a word for that, and the word is "boring". No, I don't give a shiat about her dress. Or her braids. If I did, I'd be reading a primer on medieval fashion.

I'm here for betrayal, sex, intestines, more sex, dragonfire, politics (did I mention betrayal?), chickens, revenge, hot redheaded wildlings,

/Currently reading "The Arms of Krupp"
//fark you, my book collection is more obscure than yours
///Read one Eddings trilogy, and realised I'd read them all
 
2014-04-29 02:35:41 AM  

GloomCookie613: JolobinSmokin: So have Tavi gotten control of his fury's yet?

I haven't watched this season.

You magnificent bastard! I liked that series muchly.


The problem with that series was that th e"power curve" got way out of whack, way fast. By the end of it, the power levels of the principles were just absurd. I truly fear that's where his other, much more popular series is headed, but at least the ramp up has been much more gradual.
 
2014-04-29 04:37:25 AM  

GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.


It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.
 
2014-04-29 05:25:06 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Yup.  There's no rational reason for people to live within the Arctic Circle or in the Gobi Desert, yet there are people there, all the same.


It is annoying when people are driven off the fringes of habitable land and persist on living.  Jesus, why don't they make A-bombs from snow or mustard gas from cacti so they get better real estate?
 
2014-04-29 05:35:41 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: the way he's going, he's going to die before he finishes anyway


I've heard similar sentiments expressed in these threads here. I know absolutely nothing about the guy, is he terminally ill or on some epic years long bender or something?
 
2014-04-29 05:36:26 AM  

Medic Zero: I know absolutely nothing about the guy, is he terminally ill or on some epic years long bender or something?


He's 65 and very fat. You don't see a lot of old, fat people for a reason.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 06:03:17 AM  
Book 6 will be released with the beginning of Season 5 - for sales and marketing.  That means April, 2015

Season 6 will be released April, 2016

The first half of Book 7 (which needs to be split - for marketing!) will be released with Season 7 in April 2017.

The second half of Book 7 will be released with the feature-length movie finale in Summer, 2018 - for marketing!
 
2014-04-29 06:57:43 AM  

Gunther: Lando Lincoln: That seem pretty plausible to you?

Kinda, yeah.

Mance has only just taken control of all the wildlings, it's likely before he took charge none of them bothered to take prisoners (wildlings don't seem to have much of a grasp of tactics). Add to that there hasn't been many rangings north of the wall recently and it's possible. Unlikely, but possible.


+1

Hell, Wildings may have captured a ranger fairly recently, and the information never made it to Mance, because, as you say, he's only just recently taken control of the wildlings.
 
2014-04-29 07:52:50 AM  

moothemagiccow: Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

So you're willing to accept quick summaries in lieu of well-written and engaging prose, then?  Just as happy to read the cliff notes as the novel?

Good to know I can safely ignore your opinions on literature in the future.

But of course. He knows you can skip book X because he knows how it ends and what happens next.


No, for different reasons, I read them in the order 1, 2, 5, 3, 4.  I found that going back and reading books 3 and 4 added very little of value aside for a more complete version of the red wedding, and some of the happenings at the wall.  If I were to be thorough, I would recommend reading book 1, then I would cherry pick about half of the chapters in the following books.  Easily 60-70% of these books should have ended up on the cutting room floor. How many pages of roots growing around Bran do you need?
 
2014-04-29 08:05:43 AM  

Rectum damn near killed em: Tricky Chicken: Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

Guess how I can tell you don't really like the act of reading all that much.

I love reading. I just don't love reading the same conversation over and over, or constant flashbacks so detailed, that you can skip whold books and not miss anything.

If you were to watch the DVDs like the books, you would have to watch them in this order
Disc 1
Disc 2
Half of Disc 1
Disc 3
Disc2
Disc 7

Yes, because TV and film never employ flashbacks and are linear only...


I like flashbacks when used to fill in things you don't know about a character's past.  But martin employs near copy and paste insertions of events in other books.  These aren't flashbacks as much as they are re-runs.
 
2014-04-29 08:07:43 AM  

Semper IvXx: Hey it's that guy! Good thing you're here to shiat on everything, this discussion was way to civil and entertaining. We needed some dishonest hyperbole and poutrage to round this puppy into shape. You're doing the gods work, GoT troll. The gods work.

/we get it, you don't like fantasy, or Martin, or anything but whatever niche genre hipster shiat you're into, feel free to gtfo and go discuss that with someone else


wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net


So you're saying that books 4 and 5 were AH-MAH-ZING?
 
2014-04-29 08:17:01 AM  

Tricky Chicken: moothemagiccow: Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

So you're willing to accept quick summaries in lieu of well-written and engaging prose, then?  Just as happy to read the cliff notes as the novel?

Good to know I can safely ignore your opinions on literature in the future.

But of course. He knows you can skip book X because he knows how it ends and what happens next.

No, for different reasons, I read them in the order 1, 2, 5, 3, 4.  I found that going back and reading books 3 and 4 added very little of value aside for a more complete version of the red wedding, and some of the happenings at the wall.  If I were to be thorough, I would recommend reading book 1, then I would cherry pick about half of the chapters in the following books.  Easily 60-70% of these books should have ended up on the cutting room floor. How many pages of roots growing around Bran do you need?


Where, in Book 5 , does it mention any of the stuff that happened above and on the Wall? Or what really happened in the Purple Wedding?

If you purposely skip over the 3rd book thinking that you haven't 'missed much', you might as well not bother reading it at all, since it is easily the best paced and most exciting book in the series.
 
2014-04-29 08:43:23 AM  

bborchar: Tricky Chicken: moothemagiccow: Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

So you're willing to accept quick summaries in lieu of well-written and engaging prose, then?  Just as happy to read the cliff notes as the novel?

Good to know I can safely ignore your opinions on literature in the future.

But of course. He knows you can skip book X because he knows how it ends and what happens next.

No, for different reasons, I read them in the order 1, 2, 5, 3, 4.  I found that going back and reading books 3 and 4 added very little of value aside for a more complete version of the red wedding, and some of the happenings at the wall.  If I were to be thorough, I would recommend reading book 1, then I would cherry pick about half of the chapters in the following books.  Easily 60-70% of these books should have ended up on the cutting room floor. How many pages of roots growing around Bran do you need?

Where, in Book 5 , does it mention any of the stuff that happened above and on the Wall? Or what really happened in the Purple Wedding?

If you purposely skip over the 3rd book thinking that you haven't 'missed much', you might as well not bother reading it at all, since it is easily the best paced and most exciting book in the series.


I did not skip over the 3rd book figuring I wouldn't miss much.  I was looking for something else that is missing from the series that never shows up. I went back to books 3 and 4 to see if it was somehow in those, but it wasn't there either.  I admit, the things going on at the wall and the red wedding are valuable parts of books 3 and 4.  But the other half of those two books should be thrown out and merged into one book.

Actually, this whole soap opera should be edited down to two books plus a little bit.  Most of it goes nowhere and adds no value.
 
2014-04-29 08:46:44 AM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

The white walkers don't take prisoners alive and outside of Jon, Sam and those 2 that showed up last week; anyone still alive from that group of 300+ is hanging out at Craster's

Hence why Jon going to kill them

Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

Okay, so...let's assume for no real reason that no Night's Watch rangers have been taken prisoner by any of Mance's raiders in the past five years or so. Mance's raiders just suck that badly at this whole "gathering information" thing.

So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's. And Jon Snow. Who they capture and one other guy, and Jon Snow kills the one other guy. The one other guy that they could corroborate information out of to verify that neither one was lying.

That seem pretty plausible to you?


Are you watching the same show?  The white walkers killed the 300 crows, minus the ones that made it back to Crasters.  Try to keep up here.
 
2014-04-29 09:08:30 AM  

Strolpol: Given how much the last two books generally sucked (minus a few viewpoint characters), I think it's a great thing to be diverging from them.

Obviously you don't want to go too far abroad from the original text, but I'm totally okay if we never hear from Edric Storm, Aegon, or Darkstar. GRRM really loves his sprawl, but it just doesn't work for TV. Consolidate where you can and strengthen characters we already like, like having Bronn replace both Bywater and Illyn Payne in different settings.


Glad you're not running the show, cause I liked all the stuff you talk about and cannot wait to see it on the show.  Probably cause I don't have ADD.
 
2014-04-29 09:11:00 AM  

amoral: Superjew:
If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Two fantastic reads. Two good reads. One mediocre read.


Nope, he had it right.
 
2014-04-29 09:20:15 AM  

Tricky Chicken: bborchar: Tricky Chicken: moothemagiccow: Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

So you're willing to accept quick summaries in lieu of well-written and engaging prose, then?  Just as happy to read the cliff notes as the novel?

Good to know I can safely ignore your opinions on literature in the future.

But of course. He knows you can skip book X because he knows how it ends and what happens next.

No, for different reasons, I read them in the order 1, 2, 5, 3, 4.  I found that going back and reading books 3 and 4 added very little of value aside for a more complete version of the red wedding, and some of the happenings at the wall.  If I were to be thorough, I would recommend reading book 1, then I would cherry pick about half of the chapters in the following books.  Easily 60-70% of these books should have ended up on the cutting room floor. How many pages of roots growing around Bran do you need?

Where, in Book 5 , does it mention any of the stuff that happened above and on the Wall? Or what really happened in the Purple Wedding?

If you purposely skip over the 3rd book thinking that you haven't 'missed much', you might as well not bother reading it at all, since it is easily the best paced and most exciting book in the series.

I did not skip over the 3rd book figuring I wouldn't miss much.  I was looking for something else that is missing from the series that never shows up. I went back to books 3 and 4 to see if it was somehow in those, but it wasn't there either.  I admit, the things going on at the wall and the red wedding are valuable parts of books 3 and 4.  But the other half of those two books should be thrown out and merged into one book.

Actually, this whole soap opera should be edited down to two books plus a little bit.  Most of it goes nowhere and adds no value.



I wouldn't actually throw out all the material written, but a lot of what's in books 4 and 5 belong in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book.  GRRM was an admirer of JRRT and seems to want to follow in his footsteps, especially, it would seem, the part where he writes all the back history and intricate details of various minor plots first before finishing the current story.  The difference is that Tolkein was wise enough not to include all that stuff in the main narrative.
 
2014-04-29 09:29:10 AM  

Persnickety: I wouldn't actually throw out all the material written, but a lot of what's in books 4 and 5 belong in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book. GRRM was an admirer of JRRT and seems to want to follow in his footsteps, especially, it would seem, the part where he writes all the back history and intricate details of various minor plots first before finishing the current story. The difference is that Tolkein was wise enough not to include all that stuff in the main narrative.


Tolkein's main story was about the one ring.  The fate of that ring had serious ramifications for the entire world.  Early in the first book, you knew what needed to happen to it, and what the ramifications of failure were.

Please tell me, what is the main story of Martin's work? What ramifications are there for success or failure? How will anything in this world change one way or another?
 
2014-04-29 09:53:31 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Persnickety: I wouldn't actually throw out all the material written, but a lot of what's in books 4 and 5 belong in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book. GRRM was an admirer of JRRT and seems to want to follow in his footsteps, especially, it would seem, the part where he writes all the back history and intricate details of various minor plots first before finishing the current story. The difference is that Tolkein was wise enough not to include all that stuff in the main narrative.

Tolkein's main story was about the one ring.  The fate of that ring had serious ramifications for the entire world.  Early in the first book, you knew what needed to happen to it, and what the ramifications of failure were.

Please tell me, what is the main story of Martin's work? What ramifications are there for success or failure? How will anything in this world change one way or another?


Main Story:

White Walkers are coming back, and the fight over the Iron Throne has made it much easier for the bad guys to come and take over everything.  3 heroes are prophecies to rise and defeat them.

It's not really that hard to figure out or even summarize.
 
2014-04-29 10:18:02 AM  

bborchar: Tricky Chicken: Persnickety: I wouldn't actually throw out all the material written, but a lot of what's in books 4 and 5 belong in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book. GRRM was an admirer of JRRT and seems to want to follow in his footsteps, especially, it would seem, the part where he writes all the back history and intricate details of various minor plots first before finishing the current story. The difference is that Tolkein was wise enough not to include all that stuff in the main narrative.

Tolkein's main story was about the one ring.  The fate of that ring had serious ramifications for the entire world.  Early in the first book, you knew what needed to happen to it, and what the ramifications of failure were.

Please tell me, what is the main story of Martin's work? What ramifications are there for success or failure? How will anything in this world change one way or another?

Main Story:

White Walkers are coming back, and the fight over the Iron Throne has made it much easier for the bad guys to come and take over everything.  3 heroes are prophecies to rise and defeat them.

It's not really that hard to figure out or even summarize.


Yeah, I get that storyline somewhat, but it is underplayed. And there is very little if anything paid to that storyline in the early books.  Mostly, the story is presented as 'there are monsters on the other side of the wall'.  They are sort of an enigmatic threat like the existence of orcs in Tolkein.  It is more of a condition of the world in general than a driving issue.  The prophecies get much less attention than the descriptions of meals and killing.  And I am sure I missed what the heroes are supposed to actually do. What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?
 
2014-04-29 10:24:11 AM  

Tricky Chicken: bborchar: Tricky Chicken: Persnickety: I wouldn't actually throw out all the material written, but a lot of what's in books 4 and 5 belong in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book. GRRM was an admirer of JRRT and seems to want to follow in his footsteps, especially, it would seem, the part where he writes all the back history and intricate details of various minor plots first before finishing the current story. The difference is that Tolkein was wise enough not to include all that stuff in the main narrative.

Tolkein's main story was about the one ring.  The fate of that ring had serious ramifications for the entire world.  Early in the first book, you knew what needed to happen to it, and what the ramifications of failure were.

Please tell me, what is the main story of Martin's work? What ramifications are there for success or failure? How will anything in this world change one way or another?

Main Story:

White Walkers are coming back, and the fight over the Iron Throne has made it much easier for the bad guys to come and take over everything.  3 heroes are prophecies to rise and defeat them.

It's not really that hard to figure out or even summarize.

Yeah, I get that storyline somewhat, but it is underplayed. And there is very little if anything paid to that storyline in the early books.  Mostly, the story is presented as 'there are monsters on the other side of the wall'.  They are sort of an enigmatic threat like the existence of orcs in Tolkein.  It is more of a condition of the world in general than a driving issue.  The prophecies get much less attention than the descriptions of meals and killing.  And I am sure I missed what the heroes are supposed to actually do. What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?


Sam discovered that they can be killed pretty easily if you use an obsidian weapon. (I'm guessing that the black stone spear tip he used to kill that WW was obsidian). Whatever else they do, they'll probably want to use obsidian weapons.
 
2014-04-29 10:24:23 AM  

Tricky Chicken: What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?


Stop playing the damn Game and unite against a common foe.

The main story is Westeros. That's it. The continent is the main character. The other people, walkers, dragons, etc. are just a means to tell this particular slice of Westerosi history.

There are ramifications if the continent cannot survive for one reason or another. It could be another Long Winter. On the other hand, should Westeros survive, it could be a short winter with another long summer. The titles of the next two books give us a little bit of clue. Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Winter is coming and spring is but a dream.

I rambled a bit there, but that's my opinion.
 
2014-04-29 11:11:17 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Tricky Chicken: What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?

Stop playing the damn Game and unite against a common foe.


That.

If they'd united and send all their troops north when Ned Stark tried to get them to, instead of fighting amongst themselves they'd have the Wall armed, the forts repaired and more than enough troops to fight off the Wildlings and the Walkers.

Instead we get the story we've all been watching, which is far more interesting.
 
2014-04-29 12:33:25 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Tricky Chicken: What do they need to do to defeat the walkers (not a snark, I just missed it)?

Stop playing the damn Game and unite against a common foe.

That.

If they'd united and send all their troops north when Ned Stark tried to get them to, instead of fighting amongst themselves they'd have the Wall armed, the forts repaired and more than enough troops to fight off the Wildlings and the Walkers.

Instead we get the story we've all been watching, which is far more interesting.


This.  It would have been a short book if everyone's focus had been on their common enemy instead of gaining power.  Just like it would have been a short book if Gandalf had asked more questions about Bilbo's ring before Sauron came back in force.  Sometimes the side stories are the most interesting stories of all.
 
2014-04-29 12:37:29 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: bhcompy: nocturnal001: No, I'm not done. Book 7 right now.

Also, book 7 is my favorite to reread.  Without spoiling anything(all separate items): Beak, the Drum, and Hood-damned demon farmers.  So much win

/also Shurq Elalle

I'm currently on Toll the Hounds and book 7 was AWESOME.

If Beaks story line doesn't make you cry like a biatch, you're so dead inside I don't know why you keep on living.


//SPOILER\\

I was fine until I got to the chapter with Hood's point of view of Beak. Then I cried like a little biatch.

\\ END SPOILER//
 
2014-04-29 01:30:15 PM  

Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.


However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.
 
2014-04-29 01:34:22 PM  

patrick767: Gunther: GrendelMk1: There's no such thing. If the readers need a "breather", it's because they're idiots.

It's called the scene/sequel format, and pretty much every writer uses whether they realize it or not (Dean Koontz deliberately tried to avoid it with his thriller  Intensity, the only successful aversion I can think of). You need the occasional slower scene to contrast with the faster paced stuff - if you just have exciting scenes and no slower scenes the pacing feels off and after a while the exciting scenes stop being exciting and start being obnoxious.

It's something taught in every Creative Writing 101 course in the country. Saying there's "no such thing" makes me suspect you don't know a lot about writing.

However, no story needs close to 2,000 pages of slow build-up. I don't care how many plot lines there are. Robert Jordan ended up being far worse than Martin about that and even when book 10 came out and almost nothing happened in it, just like books 7-9, he still had fanboys claiming that the slow pace was "necessary" to set things up.


I can give you EVERYTHING that you need to know about Book 10 in 3 lines in reasonably spoiler-free fashion.

Her: "Have you seen Hawkwing's face, Toy".
Him: "No" *Is totally lying*
Her: *Knows he's totally lying.  This will pay off at the end of Book 11*

That's IT.  NOTHING HAPPENS.  A 900 page book in 3 lines.  NOTHING HAPPENS.
 
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