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(Yahoo)   HBO lights a fire under George R.R. Martin's beard and says "Write faster" (possible spoilers)   (ca.celebrity.yahoo.com) divider line 270
    More: Followup, George R. R. Martin, Game of Thrones, HBO, respiratory rates  
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9277 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 1:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-28 03:14:55 PM  

Lando Lincoln: DamnYankees: mekkab: /And HBO seems to be telling their own story, now...  and I'm OK with that.

I don't really see how that's true. What in this episode is contradictory to the books in any meaningful way? AFAIK, the last scene isn't so much a different story from the books, as it just shows us a scene which isn't in the books.

Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.


Coldhands kills them in the book and he's not in the TV show so gotta use somebody else.  Its just filler so they can push Mance's attack to episode 8 and doesn't diverge from the book by any real amount.  Now if Jon and Bran actually meet up then that actually changes the story

Most likely Bran and Co simply run out the back of the keep when Jon attacks and never actually see Jon
 
2014-04-28 03:15:18 PM  

DamnYankees: He's farked. Unless he's been writing the last 2 simultaneously, there's no way he'll be done by 2018, which is when the show is slated to finish.


Well, that may be what's happening after a fashion.  At a recent book signing Martin read from a history of Westeros, which he called "an ongoing project".  If such a thing exists, it could serve as an outline for the rest of the show either for the showrunners to work from or for ghostwriters to develop the next couple of novels.

Something similar exists in the Star Wars universe and it's thousands of pages long at this point.
 
2014-04-28 03:15:40 PM  

Shostie: AnubisMan: **************. Spoilers ***************

Who is Coldhands in all this mess?  Maybe this Night King is actually a Night Queen, it's hard to tell the gender of a white walker.  Coldhands calls Sam brother and wears Nights Watch blacks and is in fact dead but still walks around and has his own will.  Speculation...

************** End spoilers ***************

There's been speculation for a while that Coldhands is Benjen Stark.



A few theories have discussed why that doesn't make sense. That said, there should be some reason they Benjen was included in the series aside from being the guy who inspires Jon to join the watch.
 
2014-04-28 03:17:06 PM  

Slow To Return: Sypad: The spoiler is that the name attributed to the white walker in the (since changed) HBO synopsis was used by GRRM in the books to refer to someone who was not (at least at the time) a white walker. So the implication is "that person GRRM mentioned became the King of the Night Walkers."Of course, HBO could have removed the reference just because they realized the implication of what they wrote, not because the implication is true. So, it is just speculation, and relevant only to the book readers.

So when you saw a white walker wearing a crown, you just thought, "Hey, that's weird."


Most viewers (both book readers and not) would probably think, "Oh neat, so there is a chief white walker." The association with the term "the Night King" from the episode summary was identifying the chief walker with a pre-existing character.

I'm taking the maybe-spoiler with a pretty big grain of salt, though, based on my interpretation of the books. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out!

// Doesn't have HBO but reads episode reviews, has read all the books

bhcompy:

I think that's the point.  ASoIaF is a response to the really awful state fantasy was in in the 80s and 90s with Dragonlance, Feist, Goodkind, etc.  Making it more real and less magical is what sold people on the books initially.

A bit off topic, but I thought Feist's last trilogy (where he wrapped up the Riftwar Cycle that he'd been writing for 30 odd years) was one of his strongest. That won't matter if you're a "I never liked his stuff" reader, but if you are a "His early stuff was pretty good" reader, you might enjoy them.
 
2014-04-28 03:20:57 PM  

nocturnal001: Shostie: AnubisMan: **************. Spoilers ***************

Who is Coldhands in all this mess?  Maybe this Night King is actually a Night Queen, it's hard to tell the gender of a white walker.  Coldhands calls Sam brother and wears Nights Watch blacks and is in fact dead but still walks around and has his own will.  Speculation...

************** End spoilers ***************

There's been speculation for a while that Coldhands is Benjen Stark.


A few theories have discussed why that doesn't make sense. That said, there should be some reason they Benjen was included in the series aside from being the guy who inspires Jon to join the watch.


Isn't it implied that Coldhands has been around for a really long time? I forget the exact reference though.
 
2014-04-28 03:22:28 PM  

bhcompy: error 303: Neat. Thanks. I'll make that my next big read. I had a hard time with the first 200 pages or so of Tad William's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn books, but once it got going it became maybe my favorite fantasy series ever, so I don't mind a little confusing slog to start out with if the payoff is worth it.

Give it at least the first two books.  If you can't hang after the second book(which is one of the best in the series), then it's probably not going to work out.

nocturnal001: Well said. Book 1 had me wondering what I was doing until halfway through. The Chain of Dogs was some of the most compelling stuff I've read. I absolutely hated the Edur vs Letheri war until about 2/3 through then I wound up really enjoying it.

The Chain of Dogs is one of my favorite sequences in any book I've red.

And the Edur/Letherii war was just weird because it was a whole new world 5 books in.  Tehol Beddict is worth the price of admission, though, and without the war we wouldn't have Beak



I wound up really liking how what we thought was a key plot point of the war was actually pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and the Tehol/Bugg dialogue was awesome. 


*spoiler


It really chapped my @ss when Laseen pardoned Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel while allowing the pogrom against the Wickans. Of course I haven't found out what what happens to Kalam after he got dumped in the Azath.
 
2014-04-28 03:24:07 PM  

AnubisMan: **************. Spoilers ***************

Who is Coldhands in all this mess?  Maybe this Night King is actually a Night Queen, it's hard to tell the gender of a white walker.  Coldhands calls Sam brother and wears Nights Watch blacks and is in fact dead but still walks around and has his own will.  Speculation...

************** End spoilers ***************


I don't miss Coldhands and I'm perfectly fine with him not being in the TV show. This whole "yeah...some people are undead and still walk around and do stuff but still have their faculties about them so now they're even more of a badass" thing is dumb and the less we see of it in the TV show the better. But I hate the warging thing more. Oh, look! He's a warg and he's a warg and every goddamn Stark is a warg! Sure, why not!
 
2014-04-28 03:26:50 PM  

Decillion: You didn't hear it from me, but in select literary circles the word is that book 6 is done and being edited. The release delay and 'panic hype' is simply to maximize the profit on the book and show.


Wait, he has an editor? You could have fooled me after the last two books. Almost two thousand pages of basically nothing happening save for a handful of events that were delayed for 90 chapters for no reason or were introduced right at the end. I'm not saying I want them to be a snappy read a la Hunger Games, but damn.
 
2014-04-28 03:27:12 PM  
You're all going to be pissed off at the end.

Jon Snow marries Daenerys Targaryen. The Others show up and kill everyone.

/It'll be called the White Wedding.
 
2014-04-28 03:27:16 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Hey, wait a minute. Jon Snow wants to go capture or kill the Night's Watch defectors because he doesn't want them to blab to Mance Rayder about how few men are now guarding the Wall. But Mance was a member of the Night's Watch, so...how long ago did Mance leave the Night's Watch anyway? Did the Night's Watch take a serious dip in manpower since Mance left? Mance's raiders have killed other members of the Night's Watch recently, so why are we to assume that none of those members didn't already blab the information to Mance?


Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

Also, Jon lied and convinced Mance that Castle Black had over 1000 fighters.  In reality it barely has over 100 men and most of those aren't rangers.  Basically its an small force of mostly cooks, scribes and new recruits. That's why they have to make sure the mutineers can't blab about how basically every seasoned fighter at castle black is already dead
 
2014-04-28 03:28:01 PM  

bhcompy: mongbiohazard: Yeah, I'm loving it but that's my biggest frustration with GoT. It's a swords and sorcery setting and there's a metric shiat-ton of swords (yay!) but very little sorcery (boo!). And by sorcery I just mean magic/fantastic stuff in general. There's a looooot of politics and scheming, but I'd really like to see more monsters and crazy magic shiat.

Mostly because they've teased so much about it. They show the White Walkers early in the show, and they've given you a glimpse or two here and there... but really they haven't done shiat. They're kind of a non-issue. The show woudn't be changed any if they were left out. So they're kind of a fantasy cock-tease. Dragons ahve been a little more involved... but still not a lot going on there either.

I think that's the point.  ASoIaF is a response to the really awful state fantasy was in in the 80s and 90s with Dragonlance, Feist, Goodkind, etc.  Making it more real and less magical is what sold people on the books initially.


That's why I got into it. My favorite scenes in GOT usually involve the Lannisters being dicks to each other or others. I'd say the show has the right amount of fantasy for my tastes.
 
2014-04-28 03:28:01 PM  

ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: DamnYankees: mekkab: /And HBO seems to be telling their own story, now...  and I'm OK with that.

I don't really see how that's true. What in this episode is contradictory to the books in any meaningful way? AFAIK, the last scene isn't so much a different story from the books, as it just shows us a scene which isn't in the books.

Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.

Coldhands kills them in the book and he's not in the TV show so gotta use somebody else.  Its just filler so they can push Mance's attack to episode 8 and doesn't diverge from the book by any real amount.  Now if Jon and Bran actually meet up then that actually changes the story

Most likely Bran and Co simply run out the back of the keep when Jon attacks and never actually see Jon


Yeah, I don't think that Jon and Bran are going to meet.

Bran: "Jon! It's good to see you! Now if you'll excuse us, we have to travel further north."
Jon: "What?! You'll do nothing of the sort! I'm not going to let my crippled little brother go into the middle of White Walker Central!"
Bran: "But you don't understand. I have to. My dreams told me so. And this other weird kid you never met thinks I should too."
Jon: "Oh...well...in that case...good luck!"
 
2014-04-28 03:29:25 PM  

ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: DamnYankees: mekkab: /And HBO seems to be telling their own story, now...  and I'm OK with that.

I don't really see how that's true. What in this episode is contradictory to the books in any meaningful way? AFAIK, the last scene isn't so much a different story from the books, as it just shows us a scene which isn't in the books.

Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.

Coldhands kills them in the book and he's not in the TV show so gotta use somebody else.  Its just filler so they can push Mance's attack to episode 8 and doesn't diverge from the book by any real amount.  Now if Jon and Bran actually meet up then that actually changes the story

Most likely Bran and Co simply run out the back of the keep when Jon attacks and never actually see Jon


Could it be a case of Coldhands killing them all to save Bran & Co? I don't really remember but I think they've met Coldhands by this point in the books, so this could serve as his introduction. Have Jon Snow arrive on the aftermath etc.
 
2014-04-28 03:30:09 PM  

ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep


And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.
 
2014-04-28 03:31:45 PM  

SkittlesAreYum: Decillion: You didn't hear it from me, but in select literary circles the word is that book 6 is done and being edited. The release delay and 'panic hype' is simply to maximize the profit on the book and show.

Wait, he has an editor? You could have fooled me after the last two books. Almost two thousand pages of basically nothing happening save for a handful of events that were delayed for 90 chapters for no reason or were introduced right at the end. I'm not saying I want them to be a snappy read a la Hunger Games, but damn.


As much as people seem to love these books and the story, I find it every bit as tedious as the middle books of the Wheel of Time series, just sexed up and with less likable characters. The story just doesn't seem to be actually GOING anywhere... sure, Daenerys seems to be making her push but I can't bring myself to care. With the way the big Houses have treated others (not just the other Houses but the common folk), I'm not sure that the White Walkers shouldn't just kill everybody and be done with it.
 
2014-04-28 03:32:08 PM  

nocturnal001: It really chapped my @ss when Laseen pardoned Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel while allowing the pogrom against the Wickans. Of course I haven't found out what what happens to Kalam after he got dumped in the Azath.


To the first sentence, if you haven't read Ian Cameron Esslemont's Malazan books, I would suggest doing so.  To the second, it sounds like you haven't read the whole series yet?
 
2014-04-28 03:34:30 PM  

DamnYankees: drewsclues: It's not contradictory, but if the TFA is to be believed and they did reveal who that was in the end of the episode, it's the one of the most, if not the most significant reveals of the entire series (books and show) to date.

I'm not sure I agree with this. How is it meaningful to say that the leader of the White Walkers is the same person as the leader of the Night's Watch from a couple thousand years ago. Seems like a random connection to me, not anything insightful.


Really? Immortality is not meaningful?
 
2014-04-28 03:34:45 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.


Uh, Jon was, essentially.  Also hard to capture a bunch of dead men.
 
2014-04-28 03:34:54 PM  

commisioner: ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: DamnYankees: mekkab: /And HBO seems to be telling their own story, now...  and I'm OK with that.

I don't really see how that's true. What in this episode is contradictory to the books in any meaningful way? AFAIK, the last scene isn't so much a different story from the books, as it just shows us a scene which isn't in the books.

Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.

Coldhands kills them in the book and he's not in the TV show so gotta use somebody else.  Its just filler so they can push Mance's attack to episode 8 and doesn't diverge from the book by any real amount.  Now if Jon and Bran actually meet up then that actually changes the story

Most likely Bran and Co simply run out the back of the keep when Jon attacks and never actually see Jon

Could it be a case of Coldhands killing them all to save Bran & Co? I don't really remember but I think they've met Coldhands by this point in the books, so this could serve as his introduction. Have Jon Snow arrive on the aftermath etc.


Yeah they meet him right after they cross the wall but he wanders off for a bit at some point.  He shows up again out side of Craster's killing the mutineers and then leads Bran to the cave.

The only way Coldhands shows up at this point is if he attacks the back door of Craster's and frees Bran while Jon is attacking the front.
 
2014-04-28 03:35:41 PM  

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: You're all going to be pissed off at the end.

Jon Snow marries Daenerys Targaryen. The Others show up and kill everyone.

/It'll be called the White Wedding.


If the show trailed off with David Bowie in the background I'd unplug my TV and never watch another show again out of fear of my head asploding.

bhcompy: nocturnal001: It really chapped my @ss when Laseen pardoned Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel while allowing the pogrom against the Wickans. Of course I haven't found out what what happens to Kalam after he got dumped in the Azath.

To the first sentence, if you haven't read Ian Cameron Esslemont's Malazan books, I would suggest doing so.  To the second, it sounds like you haven't read the whole series yet?


No, I'm not done. Book 7 right now.
 
2014-04-28 03:35:54 PM  

bborchar: Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

Uh, Jon was, essentially.  Also hard to capture question a bunch of dead men.


FTFM
 
2014-04-28 03:40:38 PM  

nocturnal001: No, I'm not done. Book 7 right now.


Oh, well, shiat.  I suggest picking up the ICE books and fitting them in within the narrative, as the items in those books dramatically help with the books you're reading.

Night of Knives is meant to be read before The Bonehunters(there are some cameos.. you're fine reading now, but you miss some stuff having read Bonehunters already that would have helped with Bonehunters).
Return of the Crimson Guard before Toll the Hounds.
 
2014-04-28 03:43:14 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.


The white walkers don't take prisoners alive and outside of Jon, Sam and those 2 that showed up last week; anyone still alive from that group of 300+ is hanging out at Craster's

Hence why Jon going to kill them
 
2014-04-28 03:43:29 PM  

GardenWeasel: Really? Immortality is not meaningful?


In the form of a White Walker? I kind of assumed they were immortal.
 
2014-04-28 03:48:09 PM  

nocturnal001: No, I'm not done. Book 7 right now.


Also, book 7 is my favorite to reread.  Without spoiling anything(all separate items): Beak, the Drum, and Hood-damned demon farmers.  So much win

/also Shurq Elalle
 
2014-04-28 03:50:14 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.


Ummm ... they were slaughtered by zombies. They don't do a lot of capturing and/or interrogating.
 
2014-04-28 03:52:45 PM  
For those of you that are wondering, the Night's King thing is a big deal because he's mentioned in the mythological stories of Westeros and possibly appears in a vision Bran has later.  It's in between a lot of useless bits so people gloss over it, but (assuming that HBO did let the cat out of the bag) readers will know to pay special attention now.

By itself it's not a lot to go on, but when you start tying it into things GRRM has said and what seems to be be coming at the end of the book, only a few of these scenes could really give the book away before GRRM is ready to make his big reveals.
 
2014-04-28 03:54:23 PM  

ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

The white walkers don't take prisoners alive and outside of Jon, Sam and those 2 that showed up last week; anyone still alive from that group of 300+ is hanging out at Craster's

Hence why Jon going to kill them


Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

Okay, so...let's assume for no real reason that no Night's Watch rangers have been taken prisoner by any of Mance's raiders in the past five years or so. Mance's raiders just suck that badly at this whole "gathering information" thing.

So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's. And Jon Snow. Who they capture and one other guy, and Jon Snow kills the one other guy. The one other guy that they could corroborate information out of to verify that neither one was lying.

That seem pretty plausible to you?
 
2014-04-28 03:56:27 PM  

bborchar: Also hard to question a bunch of dead men.


Not in this world it's not. Well...it may be hard, but it's not impossible.
 
2014-04-28 04:00:56 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

The white walkers don't take prisoners alive and outside of Jon, Sam and those 2 that showed up last week; anyone still alive from that group of 300+ is hanging out at Craster's

Hence why Jon going to kill them

Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

Okay, so...let's assume for no real reason that no Night's Watch rangers have been taken prisoner by any of Mance's raiders in the past five years or so. Mance's raiders just suck that badly at this whole "gathering information" thing.

So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's. And Jon Snow. Who they capture and one other guy, and Jon Snow kills the one other guy. The one other guy that they could corroborate information out of to verify that neither one was lying.

That seem pretty plausible to you?


Here's the difference:

These guys are mutineers.  They would easily betray the Night's Watch as they have nothing left to lose, especially if they were to be tortured.

Also, it's already established that Jon has an ulterior motive in wanting to find Bran if he can.  If Slynt and Thorne weren't so eager in trying to get rid of Snow, they would never have let him go.
 
2014-04-28 04:02:06 PM  
georgerrmartin.com
 
2014-04-28 04:02:22 PM  

bhcompy: nocturnal001: No, I'm not done. Book 7 right now.

Also, book 7 is my favorite to reread.  Without spoiling anything(all separate items): Beak, the Drum, and Hood-damned demon farmers.  So much win

/also Shurq Elalle


I'm currently on Toll the Hounds and book 7 was AWESOME.

If Beaks story line doesn't make you cry like a biatch, you're so dead inside I don't know why you keep on living.
 
2014-04-28 04:10:10 PM  

Lando Lincoln: That seem pretty plausible to you?


Kinda, yeah.

Mance has only just taken control of all the wildlings, it's likely before he took charge none of them bothered to take prisoners (wildlings don't seem to have much of a grasp of tactics). Add to that there hasn't been many rangings north of the wall recently and it's possible. Unlikely, but possible.
 
2014-04-28 04:11:27 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Okay, so...let's assume for no real reason that no Night's Watch rangers have been taken prisoner by any of Mance's raiders in the past five years or so. Mance's raiders just suck that badly at this whole "gathering information" thing.

So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's. And Jon Snow. Who they capture and one other guy, and Jon Snow kills the one other guy. The one other guy that they could corroborate information out of to verify that neither one was lying.

That seem pretty plausible to you?


The wildlings had all pulled out and gathered in the valley which was no where near where Craster's or the Fist of the First Men. There was no opportunity for capture of crows.

When Thorin's party did approach the valley they were captured and interrogated ... but they did not know about the slaughter at the Fist and Jon lied about the numbers back at Castle Black.

So, unless they can teleport around to hunt down crows, it is not unreasonable that they only captured the ones that they were actually near.
 
2014-04-28 04:17:16 PM  

commisioner: JolobinSmokin: So have Tavi gotten control of his fury's yet?

I haven't watched this season.

captainamerica.jpg

I get that reference


As do I. And I'm stealing the joke someone else made about GOT just transitioning to WOT.
 
2014-04-28 04:19:10 PM  

nocturnal001: The Chain of Dogs was some of the most compelling stuff I've read.


The Chain of Dogs was awesome, and then I liked the story of the Bonehunters even more.
 
2014-04-28 04:21:15 PM  

Lando Lincoln: So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's


mance's guys only found the ranger crew after the walkers had killed them. they never actually fought any of the nights watch. the guys who made it back to crastors are way ahead of the slow moving army of the wildlings
 
2014-04-28 04:22:30 PM  

EnormousGreenRageMonster: Decillion: You didn't hear it from me, but in select literary circles the word is that book 6 is done and being edited. The release delay and 'panic hype' is simply to maximize the profit on the book and show.

That would explain why he hasn't mentioned it in months on his blog (previously he'd throw in a "got another chapter done" or something every once in a while). Instead every post has been about anthologies and that damn movie theatre he bought which sucks away so much good ASoIaF writing time!


The other explanation would be that he just doesn't give a fark about finishing, which would fit in with all of the other evidence.  It doesn't seem like he's even writing at this point.  Even the most recent teaser chapter...wasn't that written like a decade ago?
 
2014-04-28 04:22:59 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.


They were attacked and killed by the Others, not the Wildlings.
 
2014-04-28 04:23:08 PM  

Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.


All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.  Some of the events are actually retold in a near word for word copy and paste.

I can't remember if you will be spared the page after page of him actually talking about the roots of a tree growing. But if you are somehow a tree root fetishist, you could look it up.

Seriously, don't read the books.
 
2014-04-28 04:29:40 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.

All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.  Some of the events are actually retold in a near word for word copy and paste.

I can't remember if you will be spared the page after page of him actually talking about the roots of a tree growing. But if you are somehow a tree root fetishist, you could look it up.

Seriously, don't read the books.


Are you talking about WoT?  I don't know why you'd skip the first books, those were some of the best, 1-3 certainly.  Skip the middle instead, 6-9 or something, just read the cliffnotes if you're tight on time.  I'm not sure they're that bad if you don't have to wait in between books though, I think a lot of the pain for me was waiting 2-3 years, then the book having very little actual progress towards anything.
 
2014-04-28 04:29:41 PM  

DamnYankees: Lando Lincoln: Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.

Yeah, but that's old news, and they are clearly just using that plot to stall for time.


That's what I don't get, clearly there are multiple wildling groups South of the wall, and no one gives two shiats? There was an urgency in the book with Jon Snow getting people at Castle Black ready for an attack. These guys just seem to be jerking each other off.
 
2014-04-28 04:32:41 PM  

Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.


Guess how I can tell you don't really like the act of reading all that much.
 
2014-04-28 04:34:18 PM  

akula: SkittlesAreYum: Decillion: You didn't hear it from me, but in select literary circles the word is that book 6 is done and being edited. The release delay and 'panic hype' is simply to maximize the profit on the book and show.

Wait, he has an editor? You could have fooled me after the last two books. Almost two thousand pages of basically nothing happening save for a handful of events that were delayed for 90 chapters for no reason or were introduced right at the end. I'm not saying I want them to be a snappy read a la Hunger Games, but damn.

As much as people seem to love these books and the story, I find it every bit as tedious as the middle books of the Wheel of Time series, just sexed up and with less likable characters. The story just doesn't seem to be actually GOING anywhere... sure, Daenerys seems to be making her push but I can't bring myself to care. With the way the big Houses have treated others (not just the other Houses but the common folk), I'm not sure that the White Walkers shouldn't just kill everybody and be done with it.


There's a direct corrolation between people's love of the books and the amount of time they spent on it.
Some folks can't admit that after Storm of Swords, GRRM ran out of gas.
If the quality of the last 2 books are any indication, I have no problem with HBO picking up the story and finishing it up.
 
2014-04-28 04:35:42 PM  

Abner Doon: Tricky Chicken: Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.

All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.  Some of the events are actually retold in a near word for word copy and paste.

I can't remember if you will be spared the page after page of him actually talking about the roots of a tree growing. But if you are somehow a tree root fetishist, you could look it up.

Seriously, don't read the books.

Are you talking about WoT?  I don't know why you'd skip the first books, those were some of the best, 1-3 certainly.  Skip the middle instead, 6-9 or something, just read the cliffnotes if you're tight on time.  I'm not sure they're that bad if you don't have to wait in between books though, I think a lot of the pain for me was waiting 2-3 years, then the book having very little actual progress towards anything.


I got tired of the endless re-telling of the same scenes over and over. then there is the 5-10 pages he goes on and on about the bread they are eating that day. Or how many times do i have to be told how fresh the thrushes are on the floor of any given room? And will somebody please punch him once in the crotch for every time he uses half to describe anything? Half a man high, Shorter by half, Half a day. Half a month,
 
2014-04-28 04:39:04 PM  

pedobearapproved: DamnYankees: Lando Lincoln: Jon Snow going to capture or kill the defectors was not in the books. It did not go down that way.

Yeah, but that's old news, and they are clearly just using that plot to stall for time.

That's what I don't get, clearly there are multiple wildling groups South of the wall, and no one gives two shiats? There was an urgency in the book with Jon Snow getting people at Castle Black ready for an attack. These guys just seem to be jerking each other off.


In the books, Bowen Marsh fell for the feints and scattered the Watch out...but they've changed it now.  Now Jon won't be left in charge of the Wall because no one else is there...so it makes sense to make him leader of mission to show his leadership skills.  The leaders at Castle Black know they can't take the bait and leave to go after the Wildling bands (who will come to them, in any case).    Basically, they've changed the time frame from the book to the show to help span it out over the season.
 
2014-04-28 04:39:49 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: DamnYankees: He's farked. Unless he's been writing the last 2 simultaneously, there's no way he'll be done by 2018, which is when the show is slated to finish.

Well, that may be what's happening after a fashion.  At a recent book signing Martin read from a history of Westeros, which he called "an ongoing project".  If such a thing exists, it could serve as an outline for the rest of the show either for the showrunners to work from or for ghostwriters to develop the next couple of novels.

Something similar exists in the Star Wars universe and it's thousands of pages long at this point.


The one for Star Wars was recently set on fire, though.
 
2014-04-28 04:40:16 PM  

Superjew: Tricky Chicken: All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.

Guess how I can tell you don't really like the act of reading all that much.


I love reading. I just don't love reading the same conversation over and over, or constant flashbacks so detailed, that you can skip whold books and not miss anything.

If you were to watch the DVDs like the books, you would have to watch them in this order
Disc 1
Disc 2
Half of Disc 1
Disc 3
Disc2
Disc 4
Disc 1
Disc 3
Disc 5
Disc 2
Disc 4
Half of disc 6
Disc 3
Disc 5
The rest of disc 6
Disc 4
Disc 3
Disc 7
 
2014-04-28 04:42:40 PM  

Abner Doon: Tricky Chicken: Superjew: Ow! That was my feelings!: all I can think of is Robert Jordan. Finish it and I'll read it.

The crucial difference here is that the Wheel Of Time books were a huge pile of crap from the get-go, while the Game of Thrones books are each awesome as individual books.

If you don't read them because you're afraid there's a possibility that they won't get ended, then you are depriving yourself of at least 5 fantastic reads.

Also, you may want to not start watching any Star Wars movies.

All you need to do is read the 5th book.  It mentions every single thing that happens in all the previous books and will waste much much less of your time.  Some of the events are actually retold in a near word for word copy and paste.

I can't remember if you will be spared the page after page of him actually talking about the roots of a tree growing. But if you are somehow a tree root fetishist, you could look it up.

Seriously, don't read the books.

Are you talking about WoT?  I don't know why you'd skip the first books, those were some of the best, 1-3 certainly.  Skip the middle instead, 6-9 or something, just read the cliffnotes if you're tight on time.  I'm not sure they're that bad if you don't have to wait in between books though, I think a lot of the pain for me was waiting 2-3 years, then the book having very little actual progress towards anything.


As somebody who recently read them mostly all at once (over a 9-month period, which is probably quickly for the series), I'd say that is partly right. If you are tight on time, most of the middle books, particularly 8 or 9, can be skipped, leaving the more exciting bookends to read. But OTOH, if you are tight on time, you probably shouldn't be reading the series at all. Part of the reason I read it was the sheer volume of writing it had, and if you have spare time you aren't quite sure what to do with, the series is a great way to burn it. It may be worth it, at least for the satisfying ways some of the minor plots tie in to The Last Battle.

The first book is one of those that make no sense upon the first reading, though, so be wary.

/I agree that either 8 or 9 is a huge timewaster where absolutely nothing of import, to either character development or plot occurred, and why it was even written. Most people complain that much of the stories consist of characters whining or walking in circles accomplishing nothing, and that book takes it up to 11.
 
2014-04-28 04:46:04 PM  

Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Lando Lincoln: ShadowKamui: Over 300 rangers went out and got slaughtered at Fist of the First Men and/or at the mutiny at Craster's Keep

And not one of them were captured for information.

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

The white walkers don't take prisoners alive and outside of Jon, Sam and those 2 that showed up last week; anyone still alive from that group of 300+ is hanging out at Craster's

Hence why Jon going to kill them

Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

Okay, so...let's assume for no real reason that no Night's Watch rangers have been taken prisoner by any of Mance's raiders in the past five years or so. Mance's raiders just suck that badly at this whole "gathering information" thing.

So...yeah...300 Crows come up north and this is a prime opportunity for Mance to grab two or three and get information out of them. But, again, Mance's raiders suck at this thing so in their lust for literally "eating Crow," they kill all of them except for a few that make it back to Craster's. And Jon Snow. Who they capture and one other guy, and Jon Snow kills the one other guy. The one other guy that they could corroborate information out of to verify that neither one was lying.

That seem pretty plausible to you?


The Wildlings are south west of the Fist and treat that whole area as zombie infested no mans lands, they would never run into the Castle Black rangers.  Mance's whole army is hiding in the Frostfangs which means that any crows they would encounter would be from the Shadow Tower (like Halfhand's group).  The Shadow Tower folks really don't have that much detail on the daily happenings at Castle Black, and definitely don't know that pretty much every veteran at Castle Black is now dead.

Worst case a Shadow Tower crow would say Jon's exaggerating and its more like 500-600 rather than over a 1000 (assuming they could break a loyal crow).  Mances army isn't that good (just a lot of them) and they're attacking the Shadow Tower, Castle Black and Eastwatch.  If Mance knew how pathetic Castle Black was he either would send a smaller army at Castle Black and try to storm the other 2 w/ more men, or he would just send everything at Castle Black since it can quickly be steam rolled then take the other 2 later.
 
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