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(Vanity Fair)   "That's right, the reign of the smug book reader is over"   (vanityfair.com) divider line 95
    More: Spiffy, Game of Thrones, Fortress of Solitude, David Benioff  
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5694 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 7:49 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-28 11:43:37 AM
When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler
 
2014-04-28 11:46:52 AM

doloresonthedottedline: Spoilerish? I kind of feel like the books are going to eventually end up in a place where fire and ice are both equally destructive and possibly even good depending on how they're balanced. That the assumption that fire and dragons are good is just because the Targaryens were so dominant for so long, and that Westeros is only now seeing "ice" again since the Targs are pretty much gone from Westeros (especially the ruling part). Plus that the Doom of Valyria was related to people goin a little too crazy with the fire magic and not being able to control it. Mel is already building up that her religion isn't exactly good, and there's enough there about Coldhands and NK and the Starks and Bloodraven's ...


Yes, it would be interesting if the books went down the route of moral relativism, where the gods in play don't really care about what's going on at a moral or personal level.  They have their own conflict and it plays out in their own terms.

I'm actually thinking that the Greenseers may be a third front in the conflict between R'hllor and the Great Others.  It's possible that they may actually have been the ones putting a damper on magic and dragons through the years, trying to keep fire from gaining influence after ice was defeated outright in the War for the Dawn.

It's also possible that the Greenseers might be involved in a separate rivalry of some kind against the Shadowbinders of Assahi.  It's not clear on what level they would interact, but they both seem to by vying to be "the man behind the curtain" once all the hoo-hah ends.
 
2014-04-28 11:47:22 AM

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


Well aren't you edgy...

Anyway, I wonder if that will happen at the end of this season.
 
2014-04-28 11:50:28 AM
I will remain smug.
 
2014-04-28 11:51:05 AM

ThatBillmanGuy: Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler

Well aren't you edgy...

Anyway, I wonder if that will happen at the end of this season.


I was hoping it would happen on the Easter Sunday episode...
 
2014-04-28 11:51:24 AM

Ned Stark: I will remain smug.


Difficult to be smug without a head, wouldn't you say Former Hand of the King?
 
2014-04-28 12:01:08 PM

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


I suspect we're going to get significantly more Lady Stoneheart/Brotherhood story than the books have offered so far.
 
2014-04-28 12:05:32 PM

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


Still waiting for Nymeria to get a mention is the series
 
2014-04-28 12:07:02 PM

NicktheSmoker: Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.

You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.


I think the term you're looking for is fanboy.  Let's face it: GRRM fell in love with the world he invented and so instead of continuing with the story he started, he decided to describe that world to us in great detail, especially the heraldry and food.  He veered into Robert Jordan territory and can't seem to get out.  IIRC, books 4 and 5 weren't even supposed to exist.  There was going to be a 5 year gap after book 3 and then he'd pick up the story there.  Books 4 and 5 read a lot like background material and notes because that's what they originally were.


I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.

You liked the Iron Islands stuff?  Egads.  The Kingsmoot is a prime example of needless detail that ultimately makes no difference to the rest of the story.  Only Brienne's pointless quest is a more frustrating read.

The Dornish stuff is better but it's still more bad than good.  Arianne's little rebellion might be the most non-sensible plot in the whole book.  So the prince who is sickly and could die any time tells his brother and son what his plans are but not his heir.  Because reasons.  Quentyn Martel is probably the most pointless character in the whole series.

And I'm sorry, Tyrion's story through the first three books is interesting.  The long journeys he takes afterwards, not so much.  The politics of Volantis? Realy?  And the pig riding shiat was just downright embarrassing.  Worst of all, after pages and pages of Tyrion trying to get somewhere, when he finally does arrive, Dany promptly flies off on a dragon so they never meet.  Aaargh!

I'm not saying completely throw away books 4 and 5 but a lot of the stuff in there belongs in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book, not in the main narrative.   What GRRM needs is a better editor.
 
2014-04-28 12:18:43 PM
Persnickety:
I think the term you're looking for is fanboy.  Let's face it: GRRM fell in love with the world he invented and so instead of continuing with the story he started, he decided to describe that world to us in great detail, especially the heraldry and food.  He veered into Robert Jordan territory and can't seem to get out.  IIRC, books 4 and 5 weren't even supposed to exist.  There was going to be a 5 year gap after book 3 and then he'd pick up the story there.  Books 4 and 5 read a lot like background material and notes because that's what they originally were.

Some of my friends and I decided that Books 1 - 3 are sort of like a grizzled soldier telling you a really gripping and epic war story over a campfire, while Books 4 and 5 are more like getting a dry history lecture or reading the daily memos of a war reporter.

And I think he's a capable enough author who writes decent enough prose, and in retrospect I enjoyed 4 and 5 more than I thought I did, especially after a second read through, but it's still frustrating to sift through over a thousand pages of descriptions of dining customs and heradlry to the point where you start skipping over huge walls of text because it's all insigifnicant detail only to discover 400 pages later that the one sentence about what the server was wearing while he was serving an odd kind of fig at the wrong time during a dinner was actually a crucial plot point...
 
2014-04-28 12:19:50 PM

Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.


I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.
 
2014-04-28 12:38:27 PM
I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff
 
2014-04-28 12:39:22 PM

whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)


They did- Robb's wife.
 
2014-04-28 12:42:47 PM

bborchar: I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff


I have yet to see anyone complaining about it.
 
2014-04-28 12:45:56 PM

LaurenAguilera: So long as it doesn't take a True Blood trip off into the wilds of WTF


Dude.. no joke...
Never even read the books and I'm getting WTHF moments from the show.
 
2014-04-28 12:48:28 PM

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


They killed Talisa, not Jeyne.
 
2014-04-28 12:48:43 PM

kronicfeld: bborchar: I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff

I have yet to see anyone complaining about it.


In the forums they are.  Seriously, they are upset that they found out something in the show before they read about it.

Me?  I don't care when or where I see it, I just want to finish it.
 
2014-04-28 12:50:03 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

They killed Talisa, not Jeyne.


...Robb's wife with a different name in the show.
 
2014-04-28 12:51:39 PM
Cersei drunkenly holding that martini glass had a very Bette Davis/All About Eve vibe.
 
2014-04-28 01:04:56 PM
media.tumblr.com

Damn us smug book readers!!


/no, not really
 
2014-04-28 01:14:24 PM
only 2 things were smug worthy in the show. season 1 and 2 so hopefully not much of a spoiler.

loras blowing renly. its only implied in the books that they were lovers.

margaery's lust for power. books barely implied she was a schemer, mostly from the view of cercei's drunken paranoia.


white walkers? pssh.
 
2014-04-28 01:32:29 PM

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


POV character. Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, Daenarys, Jon Snow *

* we can have this debate elsewhere
 
2014-04-28 01:57:39 PM

whistleridge: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

POV character. Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, Daenarys, Jon Snow *

* we can have this debate elsewhere


Not much of a debate until either the next book comes out or the show gets to that point.  Otherwise it's just speculation.
 
2014-04-28 02:34:43 PM
I only have problems with the GoT readers that believe its okay to spoil plot points of the show because they've read the book a long time ago and feel everyone should've read the book by now. That way of thinking is simply devoid of rational.
 
2014-04-28 02:44:26 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Strik3r: That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army... There's a HUGE difference...../if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.

In the books (and pretty sure the show) she's like 15 or 16. She doesn't know how to rule, she's just a child with an overzealous sense of 'justice'. The polar opposite of Joffrey: ruling by emotion rather than self control and discipline.

S'why I'm rooting for Griff.


Team Bastard!

Of course, there's about a half-dozen that could apply to, but not Ramsey Snow (Bolton) because he's a mad-dog, scary, psycho, need-to-have-his-head-cut-off sonofabiatch.
 
2014-04-28 02:50:05 PM
That's right, the reign of the smug book reader is over.

Fixed that for you.
 
2014-04-28 03:29:33 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ned Stark: I will remain smug.

Difficult to be smug without a head, wouldn't you say Former Hand of the King?


You post an awful lot for a dead man, you son of a biatch.
 
2014-04-28 03:30:00 PM

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


Think a lot of Dany's Dothraki clique and Xaro died on the show but not in the books.
 
2014-04-28 03:43:41 PM

doloresonthedottedline: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

Think a lot of Dany's Dothraki clique and Xaro died on the show but not in the books.


I've just been using it as a "well, I can cross them off the list of being relevant later on" thing.
 
2014-04-28 03:53:48 PM
Maybe the smug book reader is no more...but the smug Farker (us) is alive and well!
 
2014-04-28 04:05:54 PM

Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.


That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.
 
2014-04-28 04:10:28 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.


That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.
 
2014-04-28 04:37:31 PM

whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.


What if he was Bran the Builder?
 
2014-04-28 04:42:08 PM

WippitGuud: whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.

What if he was Bran the Builder?


Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.

/can he fix it?
//yes he can!!
 
2014-04-28 04:52:19 PM
So, "Noah" all over again?
 
2014-04-28 06:04:04 PM

bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.


I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.
 
2014-04-28 06:14:10 PM

Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.


Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.
 
2014-04-28 06:50:42 PM

whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have.
He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.


I would argue that when the King in the North and the King Beyond the Wall gang up on you and break you so hard 1000 years later they're still not allowed to build walls where you used to have them, you don't survive that battle even in undeath.
 
2014-04-28 07:31:31 PM

doglover: whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have.
He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.

I would argue that when the King in the North and the King Beyond the Wall gang up on you and break you so hard 1000 years later they're still not allowed to build walls where you used to have them, you don't survive that battle even in undeath.


I would agree, except magic. Mance Rayder, for example.
 
2014-04-28 08:31:37 PM

bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.


Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.
 
2014-04-28 08:35:33 PM

kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.


...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.
 
2014-04-28 08:41:45 PM

bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.


Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.
 
2014-04-28 08:45:21 PM

bborchar: bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.

Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.


I mentioned it because it seems to be evidence against the Ned Stark/Ashara Dayne theory.
 
2014-04-28 08:54:13 PM

kronicfeld: bborchar: bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.

Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.

I mentioned it because it seems to be evidence against the Ned Stark/Ashara Dayne theory.


The only real evidence we have for Ashara Dayne is Barristan's chapter...and he's a bit biased since he was in love with her.
 
2014-04-29 12:07:08 AM
I give GoT about one more season before it jumps the shark. Maybe not even that long.
 
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