Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Vanity Fair)   "That's right, the reign of the smug book reader is over"   (vanityfair.com) divider line 95
    More: Spiffy, Game of Thrones, Fortress of Solitude, David Benioff  
•       •       •

5716 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 7:49 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



95 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-28 06:38:07 AM  
Did Sam tell Jon he met Bran in the books? I thought he kept that quiet. Well that does change everything.

Good work, Book Sam!
 
2014-04-28 06:43:13 AM  
Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)
 
2014-04-28 06:45:22 AM  

whistleridge: It wasn't THAT different from the book.


I don't think the point is that it was different than the books, it's that it just wasn't IN the books. We've never had a glimpse of White Walker hierarchy before.
 
2014-04-28 06:57:21 AM  

Confabulat: whistleridge: It wasn't THAT different from the book.

I don't think the point is that it was different than the books, it's that it just wasn't IN the books. We've never had a glimpse of White Walker hierarchy before.


And we didn't really now, either. All we saw was a baby being 'turned'. Woo. We already knew they were taking babies, and since a wight baby is sort of useless, the logical conclusion is, that use that to make more Walkers.

We can also derive that they can talk (had to communicate with Craster), will negotiate under some circumstances (ditto), have females (Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King, and got the way he did after falling for a female walker), and cannot pass the wall. Ergo, if we want to see the plot Go Big, literary theory says the wall is coming down at some point. Or at least part of it.
 
2014-04-28 07:00:42 AM  
Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.
 
2014-04-28 07:27:52 AM  
White Walker trotted off into the great white nothingness

Walter White is dead?!?
 
2014-04-28 07:31:35 AM  
In the books  Dareon sings black metal songs about the Others. In the series he's all butforgotten.
 
2014-04-28 08:08:18 AM  
We got a glimpse of the Land of Always Winter and the White Walker leadership.. It was awesome.


Better get writing George, we are only about a season away from the Battle of Winterfell
 
2014-04-28 08:11:19 AM  
How has this show been on this many years and I just now found the Bronn pop-rock video from the 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY">https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY

That is quality entertainment. Too bad the other guy wasn't a dwarf.
 
2014-04-28 08:15:13 AM  
This is why when I look at this modern golden age of television and specifically the translation of books to TV, the Walking Dead stands tall is such a good show. Even if you've read the entire comic series and have foreknowledge of characters and story arcs used for the show, they use elements but almost never follow the book exactly. It's the best of both worlds and allows you be completely surprised.

*Spoiler* Andrea's death in season 3 was a perfect example of this.
 
2014-04-28 08:32:13 AM  
So long as it doesn't take a True Blood trip off into the wilds of WTF, I am ok with this.

I will say it gets confusing for me when I watch the episodes and my brain is like "No, that's not right."
 
2014-04-28 08:35:21 AM  
A different medium did things in a slightly different way that people didn't expect, take that people who can read those book things before a movie or TV show is announced about them.

That's a weird article, someone must've spoiled an ending for them.
 
2014-04-28 08:35:51 AM  

whistleridge: We can also derive that they can talk (had to communicate with Craster), will negotiate under some circumstances (ditto), have females (Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King, and got the way he did after falling for a female walker), and cannot pass the wall. Ergo, if we want to see the plot Go Big, literary theory says the wall is coming down at some point. Or at least part of it.


Chekov's Horn.

Confabulat: How has this show been on this many years and I just now found the Bronn pop-rock video from the 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY">https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY


Nice!
 
2014-04-28 08:44:46 AM  
I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.  And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.
 
2014-04-28 08:46:36 AM  

Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage


Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.
 
2014-04-28 08:49:18 AM  
RoboDoakes nods approvingly.
 
2014-04-28 08:49:35 AM  

Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.


This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.
 
2014-04-28 08:51:46 AM  
I've read the books so I'm saving up the season for a binge watch. Good thing I can compartmentalize* spoilers.

*get blackout drunk until I forget
 
2014-04-28 08:57:33 AM  

fusillade762: White Walker trotted off into the great white nothingness

Walter White is dead?!?


Yes, but it was a beauty way to go.
 
2014-04-28 08:58:54 AM  
Looked to me as though they just added stuff for pacing reasons. Given the author's turn out time they are going to need a lot of padding.
 
2014-04-28 09:02:26 AM  

Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.


Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.
 
2014-04-28 09:04:54 AM  
If I was as big as you, I would be king of the world.

Chekov's Hodor.
 
2014-04-28 09:08:38 AM  
dat cradle snatching by Margaery
 
2014-04-28 09:10:41 AM  
Not like they haven't done that before like when they took Robert's Bastard to Dragon's Keep.

Or when they straight up showed Reek's torture and maiming.

Yep they haven't done that before have they you smug hack.

Back to the fart sniffing room with the others you cum swiller.
 
2014-04-28 09:13:00 AM  

whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King


Benjen Stark, anyone?
 
2014-04-28 09:17:37 AM  

doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?


I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.
 
2014-04-28 09:17:52 AM  

Capo Del Bandito: Back to the fart sniffing room with the others you cum swiller.


Do you have some issues with women you need to work out?
 
2014-04-28 09:20:04 AM  

Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.


Also HBO calls the wight at the end of today's show "The Night King" so there's that.
 
2014-04-28 09:22:12 AM  

Confabulat: Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage

Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.


Ah, I'm actually a season behind on the TV show, I could only remember Ned saying that he'd discuss it with Jon the next time they met

Persnickety: Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong


There has been at least one prophecy that failed, Dany giving birth to the Stallion the Mounts the World being the prime example.  So it's not completely unavoidable, it appears.
 
2014-04-28 09:41:05 AM  

Confabulat: Do you have some issues with women you need to work out?


What does anyone's gender have to do with anything? That's awful silly.
 
2014-04-28 09:43:16 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-28 09:47:06 AM  

Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.


You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.  I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.
 
2014-04-28 09:49:18 AM  

Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.




Anyone who wasn't pretty much certain about Jon's parents after being beaten over the head with it in the first book .. isn't made for this sort of series.

Spoilerish? I kind of feel like the books are going to eventually end up in a place where fire and ice are both equally destructive and possibly even good depending on how they're balanced. That the assumption that fire and dragons are good is just because the Targaryens were so dominant for so long, and that Westeros is only now seeing "ice" again since the Targs are pretty much gone from Westeros (especially the ruling part). Plus that the Doom of Valyria was related to people goin a little too crazy with the fire magic and not being able to control it. Mel is already building up that her religion isn't exactly good, and there's enough there about Coldhands and NK and the Starks and Bloodraven's lines about darkness that there's potential for "ice" to not be absolutely bad, just currently demonized. Anyway! I think Jon's significance will have more to do with the power struggle between the two forces and it'll all come down more to choices than epic prophecy. We've spent a ton of time watching Dany try to rule and learn to balance her sense of justice, the power of her dragons, and the good of the people. It's possible all of that was rambling padding, but it seems more likely its building up for similar themes in Westeros once all hell breaks loose.
 
2014-04-28 09:54:48 AM  

Confabulat: Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage

Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.



And he's still under the (probably) mistaken impression that Ned was his father.
 
2014-04-28 09:55:10 AM  

NicktheSmoker: Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.

You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.  I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.




This. And I don't understand why people hated Dany's attempts at ruling. She's a little girl dealing with a society that just had its entire economy and social structure upended. And she does as good as any Westeros leader. Tyrion could've spent a chapter or two less on a boat but other than that..
 
2014-04-28 09:56:32 AM  

Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]



Phineas and Ferb Go Camping
 
2014-04-28 10:00:54 AM  

give me doughnuts: Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]


Phineas and Ferb Go Camping


I know what we're going to do today.
 
2014-04-28 10:04:57 AM  

NicktheSmoker: I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.



Indeed. By the time GRRM got to the Dornish stuff, I had almost forgotten that Myrcella even existed.
 
2014-04-28 10:11:40 AM  

mcgreggers99: This is why when I look at this modern golden age of television and specifically the translation of books to TV, the Walking Dead stands tall is such a good show. Even if you've read the entire comic series and have foreknowledge of characters and story arcs used for the show, they use elements but almost never follow the book exactly. It's the best of both worlds and allows you be completely surprised.

*Spoiler* Andrea's death in season 3 was a perfect example of this.


You picked the worse character change for your example. If your going to mention one that's better on tv then the books it's got to be Carol
 
2014-04-28 10:12:15 AM  

spamdog: dat cradle snatching by Margaery


*fap*
 
2014-04-28 10:12:21 AM  

dittybopper: give me doughnuts: Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]


Phineas and Ferb Go Camping

I know what we're going to do today.


Phineas is going to warg into Perry the Platypus (GLGLGLGLGRR!), Ferb is going to hallucinate building a 700 foot tall robot made of ice while having a fit, and Candice Meera is going to try to bust them?
 
2014-04-28 10:19:20 AM  
That's right, the reign of smug, broad proclamations is over.
 
2014-04-28 10:26:52 AM  
How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.
 
2014-04-28 10:28:55 AM  

Strik3r: How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


Dragons rule. QED.
 
2014-04-28 10:41:53 AM  

Strik3r: That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army... There's a HUGE difference...../if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


In the books (and pretty sure the show) she's like 15 or 16. She doesn't know how to rule, she's just a child with an overzealous sense of 'justice'. The polar opposite of Joffrey: ruling by emotion rather than self control and discipline.

S'why I'm rooting for Griff.
 
2014-04-28 10:45:19 AM  

Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.


I can think of, off the top of my head, at least three people who completely fit the bill for Azor Ahai and that's not even counting Stannis.

Then you get the random minor bits of prophecy like "beware the perfumed seneschal" which could be that one guy from Essos that likes wearing perfume, or it could be the ship named the Stinky Steward or it could be something completely different. Or the fact that basically all of the "impossible" stuff that Mirri Maz Durr compared Drogo returning to normal to has been happening in the background, but not only is that never noted explicitly, I don't see Drogo waking up any time soon.

So my feeling is that the prophecies probably will be mostly fulfilled, if only because by the time things wrap up, half the cast will fit the bill for the prophecied savior in some way, shape or form, allowing the winner to take the title even though pretty much anyone else could've as well.

Just like real life.
 
2014-04-28 10:49:25 AM  
Long live the era of the guy smug about not reading the books!

/the scenes with Dany in this episode were awful, some of the worst in the show so far...they went way overboard on the melodramatic savior angle
//completely atoned for by great scenes with Jamie and Tyrion and Littlefinger...pretty much being Littlefinger
 
2014-04-28 10:53:12 AM  

Delta1212: Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.

I can think of, off the top of my head, at least three people who completely fit the bill for Azor Ahai and that's not even counting Stannis.

Then you get the random minor bits of prophecy like "beware the perfumed seneschal" which could be that one guy from Essos that likes wearing perfume, or it could be the ship named the Stinky Steward or it could be something completely different. Or the fact that basically all of the "impossible" stuff that Mirri Maz Durr compared Drogo returning to normal to has been happening in the background, but not only is that never noted explicitly, I don't see Drogo waking up any time soon.

So my feeling is that the prophecies probably will be mostly fulfilled, if only because by the time things wrap up, half the cast will fit the bill for the prophecied savior in some way, shape or form, allowing the winner to take the ...


I think you're looking at it exactly right. We're not going to get a beam of light from heaven magically transforming Jon Snow into a new incarnation of a mythical hero. The prophecies - and religions, for that matter - are only relevant to the extent that the characters choose to adhere to them. So while some of the visions are probably legit and are meant to be literal - Dany in the House of the Undying, for example - what matters about TPWWP and AA is how people - like Melisandre - interpret them and choose to act in furtherance of the prophesied future.
 
2014-04-28 11:18:18 AM  

Strik3r: How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


She hasn't, you are right.  Her ruling is about to begin.
 
2014-04-28 11:43:16 AM  
Books 4 and 5 are really one book broken into 2 tomes (yes I know Martin rewrote a lot of 5), so I expect to see a lot from both books mixed up in the series so we don't get too much concentrated character POV.  This is especially true as some of the stories told are flashbacks in memory, and we've already seen one of those stories told already in real time.

Pizzas are still coming.
 
2014-04-28 11:43:37 AM  
When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler
 
2014-04-28 11:46:52 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: Spoilerish? I kind of feel like the books are going to eventually end up in a place where fire and ice are both equally destructive and possibly even good depending on how they're balanced. That the assumption that fire and dragons are good is just because the Targaryens were so dominant for so long, and that Westeros is only now seeing "ice" again since the Targs are pretty much gone from Westeros (especially the ruling part). Plus that the Doom of Valyria was related to people goin a little too crazy with the fire magic and not being able to control it. Mel is already building up that her religion isn't exactly good, and there's enough there about Coldhands and NK and the Starks and Bloodraven's ...


Yes, it would be interesting if the books went down the route of moral relativism, where the gods in play don't really care about what's going on at a moral or personal level.  They have their own conflict and it plays out in their own terms.

I'm actually thinking that the Greenseers may be a third front in the conflict between R'hllor and the Great Others.  It's possible that they may actually have been the ones putting a damper on magic and dragons through the years, trying to keep fire from gaining influence after ice was defeated outright in the War for the Dawn.

It's also possible that the Greenseers might be involved in a separate rivalry of some kind against the Shadowbinders of Assahi.  It's not clear on what level they would interact, but they both seem to by vying to be "the man behind the curtain" once all the hoo-hah ends.
 
2014-04-28 11:47:22 AM  

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


Well aren't you edgy...

Anyway, I wonder if that will happen at the end of this season.
 
2014-04-28 11:50:28 AM  
I will remain smug.
 
2014-04-28 11:51:05 AM  

ThatBillmanGuy: Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler

Well aren't you edgy...

Anyway, I wonder if that will happen at the end of this season.


I was hoping it would happen on the Easter Sunday episode...
 
2014-04-28 11:51:24 AM  

Ned Stark: I will remain smug.


Difficult to be smug without a head, wouldn't you say Former Hand of the King?
 
2014-04-28 12:01:08 PM  

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


I suspect we're going to get significantly more Lady Stoneheart/Brotherhood story than the books have offered so far.
 
2014-04-28 12:05:32 PM  

Marisyana: When Zombie Catelyn shows up, then those who watch the series will rule.

/don't give a fark if that's a spoiler


Still waiting for Nymeria to get a mention is the series
 
2014-04-28 12:07:02 PM  

NicktheSmoker: Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.

You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.


I think the term you're looking for is fanboy.  Let's face it: GRRM fell in love with the world he invented and so instead of continuing with the story he started, he decided to describe that world to us in great detail, especially the heraldry and food.  He veered into Robert Jordan territory and can't seem to get out.  IIRC, books 4 and 5 weren't even supposed to exist.  There was going to be a 5 year gap after book 3 and then he'd pick up the story there.  Books 4 and 5 read a lot like background material and notes because that's what they originally were.


I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.

You liked the Iron Islands stuff?  Egads.  The Kingsmoot is a prime example of needless detail that ultimately makes no difference to the rest of the story.  Only Brienne's pointless quest is a more frustrating read.

The Dornish stuff is better but it's still more bad than good.  Arianne's little rebellion might be the most non-sensible plot in the whole book.  So the prince who is sickly and could die any time tells his brother and son what his plans are but not his heir.  Because reasons.  Quentyn Martel is probably the most pointless character in the whole series.

And I'm sorry, Tyrion's story through the first three books is interesting.  The long journeys he takes afterwards, not so much.  The politics of Volantis? Realy?  And the pig riding shiat was just downright embarrassing.  Worst of all, after pages and pages of Tyrion trying to get somewhere, when he finally does arrive, Dany promptly flies off on a dragon so they never meet.  Aaargh!

I'm not saying completely throw away books 4 and 5 but a lot of the stuff in there belongs in an appendix or a Silmarillion type book, not in the main narrative.   What GRRM needs is a better editor.
 
2014-04-28 12:18:43 PM  
Persnickety:
I think the term you're looking for is fanboy.  Let's face it: GRRM fell in love with the world he invented and so instead of continuing with the story he started, he decided to describe that world to us in great detail, especially the heraldry and food.  He veered into Robert Jordan territory and can't seem to get out.  IIRC, books 4 and 5 weren't even supposed to exist.  There was going to be a 5 year gap after book 3 and then he'd pick up the story there.  Books 4 and 5 read a lot like background material and notes because that's what they originally were.

Some of my friends and I decided that Books 1 - 3 are sort of like a grizzled soldier telling you a really gripping and epic war story over a campfire, while Books 4 and 5 are more like getting a dry history lecture or reading the daily memos of a war reporter.

And I think he's a capable enough author who writes decent enough prose, and in retrospect I enjoyed 4 and 5 more than I thought I did, especially after a second read through, but it's still frustrating to sift through over a thousand pages of descriptions of dining customs and heradlry to the point where you start skipping over huge walls of text because it's all insigifnicant detail only to discover 400 pages later that the one sentence about what the server was wearing while he was serving an odd kind of fig at the wrong time during a dinner was actually a crucial plot point...
 
2014-04-28 12:19:50 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.


I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.
 
2014-04-28 12:38:27 PM  
I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff
 
2014-04-28 12:39:22 PM  

whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)


They did- Robb's wife.
 
2014-04-28 12:42:47 PM  

bborchar: I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff


I have yet to see anyone complaining about it.
 
2014-04-28 12:45:56 PM  

LaurenAguilera: So long as it doesn't take a True Blood trip off into the wilds of WTF


Dude.. no joke...
Never even read the books and I'm getting WTHF moments from the show.
 
2014-04-28 12:48:28 PM  

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


They killed Talisa, not Jeyne.
 
2014-04-28 12:48:43 PM  

kronicfeld: bborchar: I find it hilarious that some book readers are complaining that the show has 'spoiled' something for them.  Hypocritical jerks.

/book reader
//not smug
///thrilled about new stuff

I have yet to see anyone complaining about it.


In the forums they are.  Seriously, they are upset that they found out something in the show before they read about it.

Me?  I don't care when or where I see it, I just want to finish it.
 
2014-04-28 12:50:03 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

They killed Talisa, not Jeyne.


...Robb's wife with a different name in the show.
 
2014-04-28 12:51:39 PM  
Cersei drunkenly holding that martini glass had a very Bette Davis/All About Eve vibe.
 
2014-04-28 01:04:56 PM  
media.tumblr.com

Damn us smug book readers!!


/no, not really
 
2014-04-28 01:14:24 PM  
only 2 things were smug worthy in the show. season 1 and 2 so hopefully not much of a spoiler.

loras blowing renly. its only implied in the books that they were lovers.

margaery's lust for power. books barely implied she was a schemer, mostly from the view of cercei's drunken paranoia.


white walkers? pssh.
 
2014-04-28 01:32:29 PM  

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


POV character. Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, Daenarys, Jon Snow *

* we can have this debate elsewhere
 
2014-04-28 01:57:39 PM  

whistleridge: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

POV character. Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, Daenarys, Jon Snow *

* we can have this debate elsewhere


Not much of a debate until either the next book comes out or the show gets to that point.  Otherwise it's just speculation.
 
2014-04-28 02:34:43 PM  
I only have problems with the GoT readers that believe its okay to spoil plot points of the show because they've read the book a long time ago and feel everyone should've read the book by now. That way of thinking is simply devoid of rational.
 
2014-04-28 02:44:26 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Strik3r: That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army... There's a HUGE difference...../if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.

In the books (and pretty sure the show) she's like 15 or 16. She doesn't know how to rule, she's just a child with an overzealous sense of 'justice'. The polar opposite of Joffrey: ruling by emotion rather than self control and discipline.

S'why I'm rooting for Griff.


Team Bastard!

Of course, there's about a half-dozen that could apply to, but not Ramsey Snow (Bolton) because he's a mad-dog, scary, psycho, need-to-have-his-head-cut-off sonofabiatch.
 
2014-04-28 02:50:05 PM  
That's right, the reign of the smug book reader is over.

Fixed that for you.
 
2014-04-28 03:29:33 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ned Stark: I will remain smug.

Difficult to be smug without a head, wouldn't you say Former Hand of the King?


You post an awful lot for a dead man, you son of a biatch.
 
2014-04-28 03:30:00 PM  

bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.


Think a lot of Dany's Dothraki clique and Xaro died on the show but not in the books.
 
2014-04-28 03:43:41 PM  

doloresonthedottedline: bborchar: whistleridge: Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)

They did- Robb's wife.

Think a lot of Dany's Dothraki clique and Xaro died on the show but not in the books.


I've just been using it as a "well, I can cross them off the list of being relevant later on" thing.
 
2014-04-28 03:53:48 PM  
Maybe the smug book reader is no more...but the smug Farker (us) is alive and well!
 
2014-04-28 04:05:54 PM  

Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.


That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.
 
2014-04-28 04:10:28 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.


That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.
 
2014-04-28 04:37:31 PM  

whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.


What if he was Bran the Builder?
 
2014-04-28 04:42:08 PM  

WippitGuud: whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have. 

He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.

What if he was Bran the Builder?


Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.

/can he fix it?
//yes he can!!
 
2014-04-28 04:52:19 PM  
So, "Noah" all over again?
 
2014-04-28 06:04:04 PM  

bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.


I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.
 
2014-04-28 06:14:10 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.


Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.
 
2014-04-28 06:50:42 PM  

whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have.
He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.


I would argue that when the King in the North and the King Beyond the Wall gang up on you and break you so hard 1000 years later they're still not allowed to build walls where you used to have them, you don't survive that battle even in undeath.
 
2014-04-28 07:31:31 PM  

doglover: whistleridge: Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.

I would argue there's no chance at all he's Benjen Stark. Otherwise, the Children wouldn't have said he died long ago. They would have said 'he died'. Also, Benjen probably never went to the Nightfort, and would have no reason to know about it, or its ancient spells. But the Night's King absolutely would have.
He's the Night's King. It makes far more sense.

I would argue that when the King in the North and the King Beyond the Wall gang up on you and break you so hard 1000 years later they're still not allowed to build walls where you used to have them, you don't survive that battle even in undeath.


I would agree, except magic. Mance Rayder, for example.
 
2014-04-28 08:31:37 PM  

bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.


Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.
 
2014-04-28 08:35:33 PM  

kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.


...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.
 
2014-04-28 08:41:45 PM  

bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.


Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.
 
2014-04-28 08:45:21 PM  

bborchar: bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.

Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.


I mentioned it because it seems to be evidence against the Ned Stark/Ashara Dayne theory.
 
2014-04-28 08:54:13 PM  

kronicfeld: bborchar: bborchar: kronicfeld: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: bborchar: Dwight_Yeast: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big 'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case. The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

That was the first question Martin asked the guys who are now the producers of the show when they met to discuss doing the books as a series.  They got the answer right, apparently.

That's what leads me to think that it is R+L for certain.  Not sure who else the producers would have guessed unless they are that much better at deciphering the hundreds of dreams, prophecies and so on than the average reader.

I think one of them trained as a Jame Joyce scholar.... so there's that.

Well, there's only 3 possibilities, and while it's possible that Ned did actually father a bastard, the first book alone almost kills that theory.  I have yet to see anything that disputes R+L yet...which could come, admittedly.  But with what we have so far, it's the most likely scenario.  I'm sure the producers felt the same way.

Bran watching Ned clean Ice via the heart tree heard him pray something to the effect that he wants them to be as brothers. If Ned were Jon's father, Robb and Jon would be brothers.

...or maybe, since he's raising Jon as his son, he would want his children (and especially his own son) to love Jon as one of them.  The word "Brother" is thrown around quite a lot in this show for people who are not blood-related.  It's not exactly a death-knell to the R+L theory.

Oh, wait, you're saying that.  Sorry, misread it.

I mentioned it because it seems to be evidence against the Ned Stark/Ashara Dayne theory.


The only real evidence we have for Ashara Dayne is Barristan's chapter...and he's a bit biased since he was in love with her.
 
2014-04-29 12:07:08 AM  
I give GoT about one more season before it jumps the shark. Maybe not even that long.
 
Displayed 95 of 95 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report