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(Vanity Fair)   "That's right, the reign of the smug book reader is over"   (vanityfair.com) divider line 95
    More: Spiffy, Game of Thrones, Fortress of Solitude, David Benioff  
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5694 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Apr 2014 at 7:49 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-28 06:38:07 AM
Did Sam tell Jon he met Bran in the books? I thought he kept that quiet. Well that does change everything.

Good work, Book Sam!
 
2014-04-28 06:43:13 AM
Meh.

It wasn't THAT different from the book. The baby thing was a logical extension of what we already know, and the bit with the mutineers is clearly an attempt to tie Bran's story a bit more to the main plot, and to give a bit more drama to the reveal when he gets where he's going at the end of the season.

If they kill off someone who survives in the books, then I'll be surprised. Otherwise, it's mostly just cosmetic changes, for reasons of timing in a TV season.

(Also, this person takes a TV show waaaaay too seriously)
 
2014-04-28 06:45:22 AM

whistleridge: It wasn't THAT different from the book.


I don't think the point is that it was different than the books, it's that it just wasn't IN the books. We've never had a glimpse of White Walker hierarchy before.
 
2014-04-28 06:57:21 AM

Confabulat: whistleridge: It wasn't THAT different from the book.

I don't think the point is that it was different than the books, it's that it just wasn't IN the books. We've never had a glimpse of White Walker hierarchy before.


And we didn't really now, either. All we saw was a baby being 'turned'. Woo. We already knew they were taking babies, and since a wight baby is sort of useless, the logical conclusion is, that use that to make more Walkers.

We can also derive that they can talk (had to communicate with Craster), will negotiate under some circumstances (ditto), have females (Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King, and got the way he did after falling for a female walker), and cannot pass the wall. Ergo, if we want to see the plot Go Big, literary theory says the wall is coming down at some point. Or at least part of it.
 
2014-04-28 07:00:42 AM
Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.
 
2014-04-28 07:27:52 AM
White Walker trotted off into the great white nothingness

Walter White is dead?!?
 
2014-04-28 07:31:35 AM
In the books  Dareon sings black metal songs about the Others. In the series he's all butforgotten.
 
2014-04-28 08:08:18 AM
We got a glimpse of the Land of Always Winter and the White Walker leadership.. It was awesome.


Better get writing George, we are only about a season away from the Battle of Winterfell
 
2014-04-28 08:11:19 AM
How has this show been on this many years and I just now found the Bronn pop-rock video from the 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY">https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY

That is quality entertainment. Too bad the other guy wasn't a dwarf.
 
2014-04-28 08:15:13 AM
This is why when I look at this modern golden age of television and specifically the translation of books to TV, the Walking Dead stands tall is such a good show. Even if you've read the entire comic series and have foreknowledge of characters and story arcs used for the show, they use elements but almost never follow the book exactly. It's the best of both worlds and allows you be completely surprised.

*Spoiler* Andrea's death in season 3 was a perfect example of this.
 
2014-04-28 08:32:13 AM
So long as it doesn't take a True Blood trip off into the wilds of WTF, I am ok with this.

I will say it gets confusing for me when I watch the episodes and my brain is like "No, that's not right."
 
2014-04-28 08:35:21 AM
A different medium did things in a slightly different way that people didn't expect, take that people who can read those book things before a movie or TV show is announced about them.

That's a weird article, someone must've spoiled an ending for them.
 
2014-04-28 08:35:51 AM

whistleridge: We can also derive that they can talk (had to communicate with Craster), will negotiate under some circumstances (ditto), have females (Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King, and got the way he did after falling for a female walker), and cannot pass the wall. Ergo, if we want to see the plot Go Big, literary theory says the wall is coming down at some point. Or at least part of it.


Chekov's Horn.

Confabulat: How has this show been on this many years and I just now found the Bronn pop-rock video from the 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY">https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY


Nice!
 
2014-04-28 08:44:46 AM
I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.  And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.
 
2014-04-28 08:46:36 AM

Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage


Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.
 
2014-04-28 08:49:18 AM
RoboDoakes nods approvingly.
 
2014-04-28 08:49:35 AM

Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.


This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.
 
2014-04-28 08:51:46 AM
I've read the books so I'm saving up the season for a binge watch. Good thing I can compartmentalize* spoilers.

*get blackout drunk until I forget
 
2014-04-28 08:57:33 AM

fusillade762: White Walker trotted off into the great white nothingness

Walter White is dead?!?


Yes, but it was a beauty way to go.
 
2014-04-28 08:58:54 AM
Looked to me as though they just added stuff for pacing reasons. Given the author's turn out time they are going to need a lot of padding.
 
2014-04-28 09:02:26 AM

Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.


Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.
 
2014-04-28 09:04:54 AM
If I was as big as you, I would be king of the world.

Chekov's Hodor.
 
2014-04-28 09:08:38 AM
dat cradle snatching by Margaery
 
2014-04-28 09:10:41 AM
Not like they haven't done that before like when they took Robert's Bastard to Dragon's Keep.

Or when they straight up showed Reek's torture and maiming.

Yep they haven't done that before have they you smug hack.

Back to the fart sniffing room with the others you cum swiller.
 
2014-04-28 09:13:00 AM

whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King


Benjen Stark, anyone?
 
2014-04-28 09:17:37 AM

doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?


I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.
 
2014-04-28 09:17:52 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Back to the fart sniffing room with the others you cum swiller.


Do you have some issues with women you need to work out?
 
2014-04-28 09:20:04 AM

Capo Del Bandito: doglover: whistleridge: Coldhands was almost surely the Night's King

Benjen Stark, anyone?

I prefer that theory. Makes more sense too as people keep asking about his fate in the books, and his murdered/rape/burnt corpse hasn't surfaced as a wight yet.


Also HBO calls the wight at the end of today's show "The Night King" so there's that.
 
2014-04-28 09:22:12 AM

Confabulat: Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage

Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.


Ah, I'm actually a season behind on the TV show, I could only remember Ned saying that he'd discuss it with Jon the next time they met

Persnickety: Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong


There has been at least one prophecy that failed, Dany giving birth to the Stallion the Mounts the World being the prime example.  So it's not completely unavoidable, it appears.
 
2014-04-28 09:41:05 AM

Confabulat: Do you have some issues with women you need to work out?


What does anyone's gender have to do with anything? That's awful silly.
 
2014-04-28 09:43:16 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-28 09:47:06 AM

Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.


You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.  I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.
 
2014-04-28 09:49:18 AM

Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.




Anyone who wasn't pretty much certain about Jon's parents after being beaten over the head with it in the first book .. isn't made for this sort of series.

Spoilerish? I kind of feel like the books are going to eventually end up in a place where fire and ice are both equally destructive and possibly even good depending on how they're balanced. That the assumption that fire and dragons are good is just because the Targaryens were so dominant for so long, and that Westeros is only now seeing "ice" again since the Targs are pretty much gone from Westeros (especially the ruling part). Plus that the Doom of Valyria was related to people goin a little too crazy with the fire magic and not being able to control it. Mel is already building up that her religion isn't exactly good, and there's enough there about Coldhands and NK and the Starks and Bloodraven's lines about darkness that there's potential for "ice" to not be absolutely bad, just currently demonized. Anyway! I think Jon's significance will have more to do with the power struggle between the two forces and it'll all come down more to choices than epic prophecy. We've spent a ton of time watching Dany try to rule and learn to balance her sense of justice, the power of her dragons, and the good of the people. It's possible all of that was rambling padding, but it seems more likely its building up for similar themes in Westeros once all hell breaks loose.
 
2014-04-28 09:54:48 AM

Confabulat: Running a-puck: The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage

Not exactly. He even brought it up last night.



And he's still under the (probably) mistaken impression that Ned was his father.
 
2014-04-28 09:55:10 AM

NicktheSmoker: Persnickety: Confabulat: Personally, I hope they ditch the books altogether from now on. There's only a couple of things left I'd actually like to see on film.

This * 1e12

We're getting into book 4 material now and things start going downhill fast. Dany, Bran, Brienne and (sadly) Tyrion get dull really quickly.  Even Cersei's chapters started to bore me since it was clear where her story was heading almost immediately.

The coming diaspora and introduction of too many new characters was the undoing of the narrative in the books.  Hopefully, the show's producers rein that in.

You people say these things like its fact written in stone.  Fact is though some of us do not have ADD and think the direction the books go in 4-5 are great.  I miss the iron islands stuff, the actual Asha being badass, and her uncles.  I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.




This. And I don't understand why people hated Dany's attempts at ruling. She's a little girl dealing with a society that just had its entire economy and social structure upended. And she does as good as any Westeros leader. Tyrion could've spent a chapter or two less on a boat but other than that..
 
2014-04-28 09:56:32 AM

Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]



Phineas and Ferb Go Camping
 
2014-04-28 10:00:54 AM

give me doughnuts: Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]


Phineas and Ferb Go Camping


I know what we're going to do today.
 
2014-04-28 10:04:57 AM

NicktheSmoker: I liked the dornish stuff and tyrions plot is great.



Indeed. By the time GRRM got to the Dornish stuff, I had almost forgotten that Myrcella even existed.
 
2014-04-28 10:11:40 AM

mcgreggers99: This is why when I look at this modern golden age of television and specifically the translation of books to TV, the Walking Dead stands tall is such a good show. Even if you've read the entire comic series and have foreknowledge of characters and story arcs used for the show, they use elements but almost never follow the book exactly. It's the best of both worlds and allows you be completely surprised.

*Spoiler* Andrea's death in season 3 was a perfect example of this.


You picked the worse character change for your example. If your going to mention one that's better on tv then the books it's got to be Carol
 
2014-04-28 10:12:15 AM

spamdog: dat cradle snatching by Margaery


*fap*
 
2014-04-28 10:12:21 AM

dittybopper: give me doughnuts: Skyrmion: [i.imgur.com image 720x951]


Phineas and Ferb Go Camping

I know what we're going to do today.


Phineas is going to warg into Perry the Platypus (GLGLGLGLGRR!), Ferb is going to hallucinate building a 700 foot tall robot made of ice while having a fit, and Candice Meera is going to try to bust them?
 
2014-04-28 10:19:20 AM
That's right, the reign of smug, broad proclamations is over.
 
2014-04-28 10:26:52 AM
How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.
 
2014-04-28 10:28:55 AM

Strik3r: How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


Dragons rule. QED.
 
2014-04-28 10:41:53 AM

Strik3r: That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army... There's a HUGE difference...../if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


In the books (and pretty sure the show) she's like 15 or 16. She doesn't know how to rule, she's just a child with an overzealous sense of 'justice'. The polar opposite of Joffrey: ruling by emotion rather than self control and discipline.

S'why I'm rooting for Griff.
 
2014-04-28 10:45:19 AM

Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.


I can think of, off the top of my head, at least three people who completely fit the bill for Azor Ahai and that's not even counting Stannis.

Then you get the random minor bits of prophecy like "beware the perfumed seneschal" which could be that one guy from Essos that likes wearing perfume, or it could be the ship named the Stinky Steward or it could be something completely different. Or the fact that basically all of the "impossible" stuff that Mirri Maz Durr compared Drogo returning to normal to has been happening in the background, but not only is that never noted explicitly, I don't see Drogo waking up any time soon.

So my feeling is that the prophecies probably will be mostly fulfilled, if only because by the time things wrap up, half the cast will fit the bill for the prophecied savior in some way, shape or form, allowing the winner to take the title even though pretty much anyone else could've as well.

Just like real life.
 
2014-04-28 10:49:25 AM
Long live the era of the guy smug about not reading the books!

/the scenes with Dany in this episode were awful, some of the worst in the show so far...they went way overboard on the melodramatic savior angle
//completely atoned for by great scenes with Jamie and Tyrion and Littlefinger...pretty much being Littlefinger
 
2014-04-28 10:53:12 AM

Delta1212: Persnickety: Running a-puck: I can only think of one more big  'shocker' event coming up from the books in any case.  The thing that gets me is that the TV series seems to have completely dropped the plotline about Jon Snow's parentage.

Why not?  GRRM let it languish for so long that book fans have already figured it out.

And the three headed dragon prophecy as well.

Good god I hope so. The Big Prophecy of Doom is the #1 most overused and tired cliché in all of fantasy writing.  #2 is the Big Magic To Save the World.  I'd love it if GRRM avoided both, although it's pretty clear from the get go that we're gonna get dragons vs. white walkers eventually.  Prophecy has always seemed to me to be too spoilerish and lazy writing besides.  I want the story to unfold naturally towards what makes sense, not inevitably towards Unavoidable Destiny.

There are hints we may get this: Melisandre is clearly taking credit for her god killing Robb Stark and Joffrey when of course there was no divine intervention at all there.  I'd just love it if all the mysterious oracles and grim prophesies turned out to be just flat out wrong.

I can think of, off the top of my head, at least three people who completely fit the bill for Azor Ahai and that's not even counting Stannis.

Then you get the random minor bits of prophecy like "beware the perfumed seneschal" which could be that one guy from Essos that likes wearing perfume, or it could be the ship named the Stinky Steward or it could be something completely different. Or the fact that basically all of the "impossible" stuff that Mirri Maz Durr compared Drogo returning to normal to has been happening in the background, but not only is that never noted explicitly, I don't see Drogo waking up any time soon.

So my feeling is that the prophecies probably will be mostly fulfilled, if only because by the time things wrap up, half the cast will fit the bill for the prophecied savior in some way, shape or form, allowing the winner to take the ...


I think you're looking at it exactly right. We're not going to get a beam of light from heaven magically transforming Jon Snow into a new incarnation of a mythical hero. The prophecies - and religions, for that matter - are only relevant to the extent that the characters choose to adhere to them. So while some of the visions are probably legit and are meant to be literal - Dany in the House of the Undying, for example - what matters about TPWWP and AA is how people - like Melisandre - interpret them and choose to act in furtherance of the prophesied future.
 
2014-04-28 11:18:18 AM

Strik3r: How can anyone call what Dany is doing "ruling"  ???

She's basically leading a military campaign through a few towns.......

That's not "ruling a kingdom", that's commanding an army...   There's a HUGE difference.....

/if she has done any "ruling", we haven't seen it in the HBO series.


She hasn't, you are right.  Her ruling is about to begin.
 
2014-04-28 11:43:16 AM
Books 4 and 5 are really one book broken into 2 tomes (yes I know Martin rewrote a lot of 5), so I expect to see a lot from both books mixed up in the series so we don't get too much concentrated character POV.  This is especially true as some of the stories told are flashbacks in memory, and we've already seen one of those stories told already in real time.

Pizzas are still coming.
 
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