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(Gizmodo)   Promise kept: The price of electricity is about to skyrocket, necessarily   ( gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, electricity price, solar farms, price shocks, solar energies, coal plants, rockets, electricity  
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19101 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2014 at 10:45 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-27 08:21:00 PM  
But if customers start seeing their bills go up, they'll freak out and blame the renewable energy sources, says Alex Leupp, of the Northern California Power Agency. "If power gets too expensive, there will be a revolt," Leupp said. "If the state pushes too fast on renewables before the technology is viable, it could set back the environmental goals we all believe in at the end of the day."

They'll blame the cause of the price increase?  Duh!
 
2014-04-27 08:44:29 PM  
I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.
 
2014-04-27 08:56:01 PM  
Citation needed for those dire predictions.

From the barely linked article:
"Officials at the California Public Utilities Commission, responsible for setting utility rates, dispute predictions of large-scale electricity price hikes in the near future. Edward Randolph, head of the PUC's energy division, said price increases were not likely to exceed the rate of inflation, though the commission has refused to spell out the data on which it bases its projections. "

So have the hand-wringing authors refused to spell out the data on which it bases its projections. Big Energy-like typing detected.
 
2014-04-27 09:13:43 PM  

Lsherm: But if customers start seeing their bills go up, they'll freak out and blame the renewable energy sources, says Alex Leupp, of the Northern California Power Agency. "If power gets too expensive, there will be a revolt," Leupp said. "If the state pushes too fast on renewables before the technology is viable, it could set back the environmental goals we all believe in at the end of the day."

They'll blame the cause of the price increase?  Duh!


came here to say THIS!!
 
2014-04-27 09:28:48 PM  
The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.
 
2014-04-27 09:55:09 PM  

fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.


www.instituteforenergyresearch.org
 
2014-04-27 10:16:12 PM  
What is all this nonsense about having to pay to maintain our power grid? Isn't this why we tax the middle class?
 
2014-04-27 10:43:18 PM  

DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

[www.instituteforenergyresearch.org image 469x305]


In Australia coal power costs $25 megawatt hour if you buy it direct from the power plant with a long term contract.  There are Nuke plants in the US selling power for $4 megawatt hour.
 
2014-04-27 10:49:00 PM  

DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

[www.instituteforenergyresearch.org image 469x305]


www.blogcdn.com
 
2014-04-27 10:51:33 PM  
Good, glad to see it.

Price of electricity going up---price of solar panels going down.

When the two cross, increased demand for panels will justify larger production runs, and prices will drop even further.

Kiss your monopoly goodbye and tell your Arab friends to feed their oil to their camels.
 
2014-04-27 10:52:21 PM  

DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

[www.instituteforenergyresearch.org image 469x305]

The International Energy Agency estimates that in 2010, governments worldwide spent $409 billion subsidizing fossil fuels. In 2009, that number was $300 billion.


>b-but my graph!
 
2014-04-27 10:52:24 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.


"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."
 
2014-04-27 10:53:58 PM  

namatad: Lsherm: But if customers start seeing their bills go up, they'll freak out and blame the renewable energy sources, says Alex Leupp, of the Northern California Power Agency. "If power gets too expensive, there will be a revolt," Leupp said. "If the state pushes too fast on renewables before the technology is viable, it could set back the environmental goals we all believe in at the end of the day."

They'll blame the cause of the price increase?  Duh!

came here to say THIS!!


Thirded.
 
2014-04-27 10:54:10 PM  
So more people are going off-grid, so the EC's raise their rates to compensate, making more people going off-grid....

I see the flaws in Gizmodo's argument.

First off, it's Gizmodo. Right there, that's a red flag.
 
2014-04-27 10:55:50 PM  

Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.


FIFY.
 
2014-04-27 10:56:02 PM  
She's been waiting to reuse this sign

cdn2-b.examiner.com
 
2014-04-27 10:56:26 PM  

doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.


Okay..thats ALSO a valid point...bc its true.
 
2014-04-27 10:56:40 PM  

doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.


Exactly.
 
2014-04-27 10:56:45 PM  

olddinosaur: When the two cross, increased demand for panels will justify larger production runs, and prices will drop even further


Gonna need grid scale batteries.
 
2014-04-27 10:57:04 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: So more people are going off-grid, so the EC's raise their rates to compensate, making more people going off-grid....


To combat that they're making it illegal to live off the grid in more and more place. Just like how some places made it illegal to use corn oil in diesel engines when gas prices went really high.
 
2014-04-27 10:59:02 PM  

DON.MAC: DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

[www.instituteforenergyresearch.org image 469x305]

In Australia coal power costs $25 megawatt hour if you buy it direct from the power plant with a long term contract.  There are Nuke plants in the US selling power for $4 megawatt hour.


wait...wut???

I live in the US, and pay a fairly moderate $0.10 per kilowatt hour.  Last time I checked, there are 1000 kilowatt hours in a megawatt hour.  If my drunken math isn't deceiving me, $0.10 x 1000 = $100.  Now, I live 35 miles from a nuclear plant, and I think there are at least one or two coal plants within 100 miles.  SOooo, wtf!!
 
2014-04-27 10:59:33 PM  

doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.


You're a Boomer Bigot too, huh?

/I thought more of you than that
 
2014-04-27 11:01:13 PM  

doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.


Concur
 
2014-04-27 11:02:07 PM  
The general solution is building (smaller) houses with built-in solar panels. Can you imagine what would happen if most suburban style tract houses built today required solar panels when they were built? Or at least if we had a law ramping up their production over 10 years?

/plan to have solar panels on roof in less than 5 yrs, if HOA doesn't get on my ass
 
2014-04-27 11:02:23 PM  

wildcardjack: olddinosaur: When the two cross, increased demand for panels will justify larger production runs, and prices will drop even further

Gonna need grid scale batteries.


Massive earthquake causing flywheels!
 
2014-04-27 11:02:31 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: ArcadianRefugee: So more people are going off-grid, so the EC's raise their rates to compensate, making more people going off-grid....

To combat that they're making it illegal to live off the grid in more and more place. Just like how some places made it illegal to use corn oil in diesel engines when gas prices went really high.


[citationplease.jpg]

It might be illegal to use vegetable oil in diesel engines, but that's because (on paper) it is not EPA approved. There is no valid (on paper) reason to make illegal what you say.
 
2014-04-27 11:03:31 PM  

DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

[www.instituteforenergyresearch.org image 469x305]


What an oddball metric to use because all it shows is that we use coal and oil the most. They get a lot of subsides as well which was already pointed out but because its used more than solar and wind, the cost per unit of production is less. Talk about using charts for propaganda.

Of course this came from a think tank that's shilling for the oil industry and should be taken with a very large grain of salt.
 
2014-04-27 11:04:18 PM  

DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.


Per unit of production = who gives a fark? Yes, solar gets more per unit of production, but production is low and there is a need to ramp it up. Meaningless cherry picked statistic is meaningless.
 
2014-04-27 11:04:49 PM  
Yes!  It is almost over.
 
2014-04-27 11:04:55 PM  
Problems with the California power grid? Shiat. Is Enron back again?
 
2014-04-27 11:06:58 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: It might be illegal to use vegetable oil in diesel engines, but that's because (on paper) it is not EPA approved.


My expectation is that context was more about diesel powered vehicles on roads maintained with fuel taxes.
 
2014-04-27 11:07:08 PM  
So they fixed that whole losing power after two weeks of clouds bit?
 
2014-04-27 11:07:33 PM  
Put solar panels over the aqueducts that carry water across the arid parts of California. The shade will reduce evaporation loss to the water and produce electricity as a bonus.
 
2014-04-27 11:07:41 PM  
The result is likely to be future price shocks. And they may not be temporary.

Imagine that. The people who control energy are going to charge us more.

Why don't "we" the people control it instead of profiteers?

I can't be the only one sick of the system we live in that only benefits certain groups.
 
2014-04-27 11:07:58 PM  
This will be the last thing on our minds as our economy crumbles, The plagues begin and the crops stop growing.

/feeling like a ray of sunshine

// Can't wait for this shiatfest to get started.
 
2014-04-27 11:08:29 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.

You're a Boomer Bigot too, huh?

/I thought more of you than that


Look, man, I get that there is no monolithic culture per generation, but the sad fact is that the type of screw-the-infrastructure, fark-long-term-investment, short-term-gain, and fark-you-I-got-mine mentality became the norm in this country when the Boomers ascended to political power in this country 30-odd years ago.  The bill has come due and all the whining about "oh noes, our grandkids will have to pay for that" is lost on the kids of that generation that are paying the bills NOW.

I welcome having to pay more if it means the next generations have a legacy to inherit that's better than the ones Gen Xers and Millennials were born into.  That's because the attitudes of the post-WWII pax Americana yielded very little in the way of sustainable growth and prosperity.

While I'm flattered that you might have thought anything of me at all, I assure you I'm no bigot.  I'm referencing collective behavior and it's destructive trendlines born of the peaceful fat of the land.  Those days are gone and we need to get real.
 
2014-04-27 11:08:37 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: J. Frank Parnell: ArcadianRefugee: So more people are going off-grid, so the EC's raise their rates to compensate, making more people going off-grid....

To combat that they're making it illegal to live off the grid in more and more place. Just like how some places made it illegal to use corn oil in diesel engines when gas prices went really high.

[citationplease.jpg]

It might be illegal to use vegetable oil in diesel engines, but that's because (on paper) it is not EPA approved. There is no valid (on paper) reason to make illegal what you say.


Doesn't stop them.  All kinds of rules about that kind of stuff.  Hell, I moved from a major metro area where not having a refrigerator made a house 'uninhabitable' by municipal code.
 
2014-04-27 11:09:23 PM  
Hey, y'all!  Big news!  The people who supply stuff, that you pretty much are hosed without having available to you, never take a single penny  from their egregious profits to maintain or replace anything, bill your ass for it instead, and then raise the rates!  Pass it on.
 
2014-04-27 11:09:23 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: DesertDemonWY: fusillade762: The solution is clearly more subsidies for oil and coal companies.

Per unit of production = who gives a fark? Yes, solar gets more per unit of production, but production is low and there is a need to ramp it up. Meaningless cherry picked statistic is meaningless.


But how else are we supposed to make solar and wind look bad and to convince people that only drilling for oil is the answer?
 
2014-04-27 11:12:23 PM  

doyner: Look, man, I get that there is no monolithic culture per generation, but the sad fact is that the type of screw-the-infrastructure, fark-long-term-investment, short-term-gain, and fark-you-I-got-mine mentality became the norm in this country when the Boomers greedheads who've run things all along put their sock puppet in power and dropped the other shoe and ascended to political power in this country 30-odd years ago.


FIFY.  Protip - they bent EVERYBODY over the sink.
 
2014-04-27 11:12:51 PM  
First Energy wanted to charge everyone a "polar vortex" fee because fark you we can.  Big uproar made them cancel it for residential, but still going to charge commercial businesses.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/firstenergy_solu ti ons_wont_sla.html#incart_more_business
 
2014-04-27 11:12:54 PM  

bdub77: The general solution is building (smaller) houses with built-in solar panels.


Shingles are bullshiat, too. Blowing around in high winds, leaky, and needing to be replaced every ~10 years. You can tell who the smart people are because they have metal roofing, and will soon to be the ones with roofs made entirely of solar panels.
 
2014-04-27 11:12:57 PM  

doyner: MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.

You're a Boomer Bigot too, huh?

/I thought more of you than that

Look, man, I get that there is no monolithic culture per generation, but the sad fact is that the type of screw-the-infrastructure, fark-long-term-investment, short-term-gain, and fark-you-I-got-mine mentality became the norm in this country when the Boomers ascended to political power in this country 30-odd years ago.  The bill has come due and all the whining about "oh noes, our grandkids will have to pay for that" is lost on the kids of that generation that are paying the bills NOW.

I welcome having to pay more if it means the next generations have a legacy to inherit that's better than the ones Gen Xers and Millennials were born into.  That's because the attitudes of the post-WWII pax Americana yielded very little in the way of sustainable growth and prosperity.

While I'm flattered that you might have thought anything of me at all, I assure you I'm no bigot.  I'm referencing collective behavior and it's destructive trendlines born of the peaceful fat of the land.  Those days are gone and we need to get real.


You buy into an arbitrary media-created grouping to focus your hate on, and everyone within that grouping deserves it

/if that's not bigotry, what is it?
 
2014-04-27 11:12:57 PM  
So the oil industry is telling us that they'll raise rates either way?

fark them.  fark them in their Rand holes.
 
2014-04-27 11:13:39 PM  
FTFA:  There is a growing fragility in the U.S. electricity system, experts warn, the result of the shutdown of coal-fired plants, reductions in nuclear power, a shift to more expensive renewable energy and natural gas pipeline constraints. The result is likely to be future price shocks. And they may not be temporary.

When was the last time there was a temporary increase that was retracted?  Other than some two or three cent fee, but something meaningful?  Ever?
 
2014-04-27 11:14:51 PM  

oukewldave: First Energy wanted to charge everyone a "polar vortex" fee because fark you we can.  Big uproar made them cancel it for residential, but still going to charge commercial businesses.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/firstenergy_solu ti ons_wont_sla.html#incart_more_business


This is the same First Energy that was too cheap to trim a damn tree that ended up falling onto some power lines, causing the entire Northeast to plunge into darkness.
 
2014-04-27 11:15:16 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: Cyno01: InterruptingQuirk: I guess it's the cost of doing business which is super green for the sake of our grandchildren and their grandchildren, etc. So what if the current generation of peasants starve to death paying for this greenness that they don't even have children let alone any progeny beyond that. We're probably better off without the genetic makeup of such losers.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."


vs


"I got mine, fark you."  Baby boomers.

FIFY.

You're a Boomer Bigot too, huh?

/I thought more of you than that

Look, man, I get that there is no monolithic culture per generation, but the sad fact is that the type of screw-the-infrastructure, fark-long-term-investment, short-term-gain, and fark-you-I-got-mine mentality became the norm in this country when the Boomers ascended to political power in this country 30-odd years ago.  The bill has come due and all the whining about "oh noes, our grandkids will have to pay for that" is lost on the kids of that generation that are paying the bills NOW.

I welcome having to pay more if it means the next generations have a legacy to inherit that's better than the ones Gen Xers and Millennials were born into.  That's because the attitudes of the post-WWII pax Americana yielded very little in the way of sustainable growth and prosperity.

While I'm flattered that you might have thought anything of me at all, I assure you I'm no bigot.  I'm referencing collective behavior and it's destructive trendlines born of the peaceful fat of the land.  Those days are gone and we need to get real.

You buy into an arbitrary media-created grouping to focus your hate on, and everyone within that grouping deserves it

/if that's not bigotry, what is it?


Bigotry = hate in all instances means that most Farkers are bigots concerning Christianity

Stop throwing around words that debase their meaning
 
2014-04-27 11:15:45 PM  
The much larger driver of future power prices will not be renewables, but natural gas prices.  What do you think is replacing all that coal and nuclear capacity?  Natural gas power plants.  As long as the U.S. keeps pumping gas out of shale formations at the rate we are there will not be major rate price spikes.

And as folks up thread mentioned: solar panels are getting cheaper rapidly.  It is silly to say that ten to fifteen years down the road that renewable costs are going to be as high as they are today.  With all the research pouring into the green tech sector the prices will either stay the same or decline.

Besides, greater investments in renewable generation will allow the industry to expand and benefit from economies of scale.  But unless we make those investments today, we won't have them tomorrow.
 
2014-04-27 11:16:14 PM  
Thanks again fartbama!!
 
2014-04-27 11:17:03 PM  

olddinosaur: Good, glad to see it.

Price of electricity going up---price of solar panels going down.

When the two cross, increased demand for panels will justify larger production runs, and prices will drop even further.

Kiss your monopoly goodbye and tell your Arab friends to feed their oil to their camels.



Yep, solar is the answer...for 12 hours per day if there are no clouds in the sky.

/ not that I don't like solar power; I worked in the solar PV industry for a while at a major panel manufacturer & fully appreciate the technology
// it's just that PV is not the answer -- it's a nice contributor to peak demand, but that's about it
 
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