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(Pro Basketball Talk)   Los Angeles Clippers players find classy and unique way to protest their owner's comments   (probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 66
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1977 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Apr 2014 at 8:09 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-27 06:16:34 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
TSD [TotalFark]
2014-04-27 06:17:59 PM  
yea...black socks are a message sender.
 
2014-04-27 07:40:37 PM  
Letting Steph Curry score at will?
 
2014-04-27 08:10:23 PM  
Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.
 
2014-04-27 08:18:23 PM  
Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.
 
2014-04-27 08:23:28 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.


Their warmups and shooting shirts aren't their uniforms. They didn't do anything to their uniforms. And wearing black socks and wristbands isn't against NBA uniform policy.

SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.


What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.
 
2014-04-27 08:26:37 PM  
Letting Golden State beat them?
 
2014-04-27 08:27:51 PM  

ongbok: InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.

Their warmups and shooting shirts aren't their uniforms. They didn't do anything to their uniforms. And wearing black socks and wristbands isn't against NBA uniform policy.

SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.

What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.


Imagine if both teams decided to walk out during the 4th quarter, followed by the fans.
 
2014-04-27 08:30:31 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.


Typically, screwing with your uniform in any way results in a fine from the league. However, due to half the players in the league having shoe deals, shoes aren't consider part of the uniform, as I understand it.

That said, the league is unlikely to do anything to players protesting racist comments. They aren't in backing PR nightmares, as a rule.

I thought Doc Rivers's comment that JJ Reddick was just as offended as Chris Paul was a pretty nice reflection on how society has progressed.
 
2014-04-27 08:30:45 PM  

ongbok: SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.


What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.



I dunno...sitting down at center court?  Refusing to enter their home court?  Something else creative?  Personally I find the weakness in their response to be one step below the weakness of the girl that was dating this racist POS.  She's with him for the money...they're with him for the money.  They're mad, but at the same time he butters their rolls so they're not going to do anything that jeopardizes that sweet moolah.
 
2014-04-27 08:30:51 PM  
Something more devious would be topass the ball back and forth between teams for the duration of the game.

No rules broken there , just assumptions
 
2014-04-27 08:34:51 PM  

zjoik: Something more devious would be topass the ball back and forth between teams for the duration of the game.

No rules broken there , just assumptions


THIS would have been awesome...have the game go into OT with a 0-0 score...
 
2014-04-27 08:34:51 PM  
Yeah let's criticize the players 'cause they got put in a totally cool situation with an obvious and easy response.
 
2014-04-27 08:35:54 PM  
How about they do a Reverse Al Jolson?

Whiteface makeup.

just spit-balling ,here
 
2014-04-27 08:35:54 PM  

SubBass49: ongbok: SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.


What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.


I dunno...sitting down at center court?  Refusing to enter their home court?  Something else creative?  Personally I find the weakness in their response to be one step below the weakness of the girl that was dating this racist POS.  She's with him for the money...they're with him for the money.  They're mad, but at the same time he butters their rolls so they're not going to do anything that jeopardizes that sweet moolah.


The players are under contract, if they refuse to play he can legally screw them over badly. Some times the best option is to continue to work and quietly protest like they are doing. And I'm pretty sure they are doing what in affect is a work slowdown.
 
2014-04-27 08:36:50 PM  

zjoik: Something more devious would be topass the ball back and forth between teams for the duration of the game.

No rules broken there , just assumptions


The issue would be getting the Warriors to go along with it. Their owner isn't exactly unpopular.
 
2014-04-27 08:37:37 PM  
Anyone else here find Chris Rock's joke about Blake Griffin only being 1/2 pissed off about Sterling to be really uncalled for and shiat-headed?
 
2014-04-27 08:39:13 PM  

zjoik: ongbok: InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.

Their warmups and shooting shirts aren't their uniforms. They didn't do anything to their uniforms. And wearing black socks and wristbands isn't against NBA uniform policy.

SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.

What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.

Imagine if both teams decided to walk out during the 4th quarter, followed by the fans.


To be fair, The Clippers didn't show up in the 4th quarter... or the 1st quarter for that matter.
 
2014-04-27 08:41:16 PM  

hugram: zjoik: ongbok: InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.

Their warmups and shooting shirts aren't their uniforms. They didn't do anything to their uniforms. And wearing black socks and wristbands isn't against NBA uniform policy.

SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.

What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.

Imagine if both teams decided to walk out during the 4th quarter, followed by the fans.

To be fair, The Clippers didn't show up in the 4th quarter... or the 1st quarter for that matter.


So, do they "try" to win but just not quite make their shots each game, thus sending their team into the offseason as quickly as possible?  That'd be the only effective AND legal way to stop making big bucks for that racist POS.
 
2014-04-27 08:42:48 PM  

ZMugg: How about they do a Reverse Al Jolson?

Whiteface makeup.

just spit-balling ,here


www.wrugmedia.com
 
2014-04-27 08:42:59 PM  
It is really up to Commissioner Adam Silver to have made the appropriate response and not leave it on the player's shoulders to make a statement. Not that I should be surprised that sport team owners get a pass when it comes to racism. Stern let Starling and his racism stay in the league without penalty.
 
2014-04-27 08:50:18 PM  

SubBass49: hugram: zjoik: ongbok: InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.

Their warmups and shooting shirts aren't their uniforms. They didn't do anything to their uniforms. And wearing black socks and wristbands isn't against NBA uniform policy.

SubBass49: Yeah...seems pretty weak-sauce to me.

What else could they do? Doing anything else puts them in violation of league rules and puts their contract status in jeopardy.

Imagine if both teams decided to walk out during the 4th quarter, followed by the fans.

To be fair, The Clippers didn't show up in the 4th quarter... or the 1st quarter for that matter.

So, do they "try" to win but just not quite make their shots each game, thus sending their team into the offseason as quickly as possible?  That'd be the only effective AND legal way to stop making big bucks for that racist POS.


Pass game, arrange for a more interesting game after, free of charge. (Beer pong in godzilla suits or something) dont want to alienate your fans, just the owner.
 
2014-04-27 09:04:26 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Yeah let's criticize the players 'cause they got put in a totally cool situation with an obvious and easy response.


Just wait. Before the thread is over, someone will be arguing in all seriousness that the players' response to racism wasn't good enough because they're just a bunch of lazy black thugs.
 
2014-04-27 09:10:23 PM  
Apparently the players legitimately discussed simply not playing the game. In a perfect world this situation wouldn't exist, but I would have been impressed if that would have been their response.
 
2014-04-27 09:26:47 PM  

Uncle Pooky: Apparently the players legitimately discussed simply not playing the game. In a perfect world this situation wouldn't exist, but I would have been impressed if that would have been their response.


The only thing about that idea, for all its merits, is that it was a road game.  You're not costing Don nearly as much money (can't remember how/if money gets divided during playoffs), but you are costing Golden State, their employees and their fans that money.  Otherwise I would've gone with it.  Tuesday, however, will be the real test.
 
2014-04-27 09:31:38 PM  

skinink: It is really up to Commissioner Adam Silver to have made the appropriate response and not leave it on the player's shoulders to make a statement. Not that I should be surprised that sport team owners get a pass when it comes to racism. Stern let Starling and his racism stay in the league without penalty.


Owners always get the kid gloves by the leagues and even the media to a degree. Look at all the Colt's owner stories that basically portray him as the victim for potentially killing people with a DUI. Take a black athlete with the same history who does that and well, you won't be getting that victim portrayal in the media. Mind you in this case, the media is not going to let up, but we'll see if the league has anything that actually matters, he's been a horrible racist for years and it hasn't bothered them.
 
2014-04-27 09:54:26 PM  
When Magic Johnson tweeted "I feel sorry for my friends Coach Doc Rivers and Chris Paul that they have to work for a man that feels that way about African Americans."  I couldn't help but think  that they are multi millionaires getting paid millions to coach and play for a basketball team. Turns out the guy signing the checks is a monumental dick (or TMZ played a doctored tape). They could quit playing today if it means that much to them and still live comfortably for the rest of their lives.  Sucks, but if you hate your boss, why would you work for him?  I know people who've left regular 9-5 jobs over smaller shiat with no life time savings to fall back on.
 
2014-04-27 10:07:31 PM  
Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

i90.photobucket.com

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).
 
2014-04-27 10:12:15 PM  

hammettman: Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

[i90.photobucket.com image 323x156]

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).


Anybody who is under contract is stuck unless they want to sit out for the rest of their contract or go through some long legal proceedings to try to get their contract negated.. All of the free agents will leave, and he won't be able to replace them with top notch free agents. He will probably get some guys to sign who can't sign anyplace else, but that is about it.
 
2014-04-27 10:15:07 PM  

ongbok: hammettman: Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

[i90.photobucket.com image 323x156]

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).

Anybody who is under contract is stuck unless they want to sit out for the rest of their contract or go through some long legal proceedings to try to get their contract negated.. All of the free agents will leave, and he won't be able to replace them with top notch free agents. He will probably get some guys to sign who can't sign anyplace else, but that is about it.


Or, they could play half-heartedly, just enough, but way below their level while demanding a trade without the long legal proceedings.  It's not like that hasn't been done successfully before.
 
2014-04-27 10:17:17 PM  

ongbok: hammettman: Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

[i90.photobucket.com image 323x156]

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).

Anybody who is under contract is stuck unless they want to sit out for the rest of their contract or go through some long legal proceedings to try to get their contract negated.. All of the free agents will leave, and he won't be able to replace them with top notch free agents. He will probably get some guys to sign who can't sign anyplace else, but that is about it.


How is that any different from how the Clippers normally do business?
 
2014-04-27 10:20:14 PM  

hammettman: ongbok: hammettman: Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

[i90.photobucket.com image 323x156]

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).

Anybody who is under contract is stuck unless they want to sit out for the rest of their contract or go through some long legal proceedings to try to get their contract negated.. All of the free agents will leave, and he won't be able to replace them with top notch free agents. He will probably get some guys to sign who can't sign anyplace else, but that is about it.

Or, they could play half-heartedly, just enough, but way below their level while demanding a trade without the long legal proceedings.  It's not like that hasn't been done successfully before.


or just openly throw it to the other team.  even that doesn't void the contract...
 
2014-04-27 10:30:24 PM  

FriarReb98: Uncle Pooky: Apparently the players legitimately discussed simply not playing the game. In a perfect world this situation wouldn't exist, but I would have been impressed if that would have been their response.

The only thing about that idea, for all its merits, is that it was a road game.  You're not costing Don nearly as much money (can't remember how/if money gets divided during playoffs), but you are costing Golden State, their employees and their fans that money.  Otherwise I would've gone with it.  Tuesday, however, will be the real test.


that's why you're the judge, and I'm the... law-talkin'... guy.
 
2014-04-27 10:30:28 PM  
Or, they could trust that the league will handle things appropriately
 
2014-04-27 10:30:55 PM  

A Fark Handle: hammettman: ongbok: hammettman: Sterling has never been comfortable with the Negro.

[i90.photobucket.com image 323x156]

The delicious irony is that he's damaged his brand.  When the Clippers flame out in the first, maybe 2nd round, how many will be looking to bolt.  It seemed obvious from today's game that hardly anyone wanted to play for the team.  So he's going to lose some stars, he's going to lose fans, so if by chance he does have to sell the team he'll get less money for it (which is all he really cares about).

Anybody who is under contract is stuck unless they want to sit out for the rest of their contract or go through some long legal proceedings to try to get their contract negated.. All of the free agents will leave, and he won't be able to replace them with top notch free agents. He will probably get some guys to sign who can't sign anyplace else, but that is about it.

Or, they could play half-heartedly, just enough, but way below their level while demanding a trade without the long legal proceedings.  It's not like that hasn't been done successfully before.

or just openly throw it to the other team.  even that doesn't void the contract...


The NBA might have something to say about openly throwing the game like that.
 
2014-04-27 10:34:53 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Don't pro sports teams get in a lot of trouble if they don't conform to the uniform standards of their league? Not suggesting they stop with the protest, just asking about how much they are risking voicing themselves this way.


Only if Adam Silver wanted to have the GNP of Dethklok.
 
2014-04-27 10:36:37 PM  

SubBass49: Anyone else here find Chris Rock's joke about Blake Griffin only being 1/2 pissed off about Sterling to be really uncalled for and shiat-headed?


No because it's a joke. Hey, you even called it a joke yourself. Let me emphasize that for you, because I guess you didn't get it.
 
2014-04-27 10:39:46 PM  

zjoik: Something more devious would be topass the ball back and forth between teams for the duration of the game.

No rules broken there , just assumptions


He, he, he...top ass
 
2014-04-27 10:49:41 PM  

Foxxinnia: SubBass49: Anyone else here find Chris Rock's joke about Blake Griffin only being 1/2 pissed off about Sterling to be really uncalled for and shiat-headed?

No because it's a joke. Hey, you even called it a joke yourself. Let me emphasize that for you, because I guess you didn't get it.


I do get it...Blake Griffin is mixed...it's not funny.  He's suggesting that White people aren't pissed off & disgusted about this whole situation.  He's also suggesting that being mixed, Griffin doesn't understand what Black people go through.  It's unfunny and idiotic.  Especially when you consider that most African-Americans have "White blood" coursing through their veins (thanks to slaveholders' propensity for rape).
 
2014-04-27 11:01:54 PM  
The girlfriend is saying she's not the one that released that tapes. The wife is standing strong, making her claim on the team while her husband is in retreat. Anyone else thinking that the wife released the tapes to punish her philandering husband and maybe toss in grounds for divorce whefe she could get a good chunk of the team and have the NBA confirm her as the majority owner?
 
2014-04-27 11:09:04 PM  

semiotix: AliceBToklasLives: Yeah let's criticize the players 'cause they got put in a totally cool situation with an obvious and easy response.

Just wait. Before the thread is over, someone will be arguing in all seriousness that the players' response to racism wasn't good enough because they're just a bunch of lazy black thugs.


There were about 3,999 twitter responses that more or less said the same thing..

Most importantly, these dudes have professional pride (21 pt beatdown aside). Even if they hate Master Sterling, I think guys like CP3 and Griffin know this might be one of the best chances to win in their career. They owe it to themselves to win the whole damn thing.

//wanna know what would be an awesome response? If they do get to the finals and Sterling is involved with the WC trophy ceremony, they can choose to boycott that crap.

Until then, lay off the players. They didn't foul the air with racist comments.
 
2014-04-27 11:09:24 PM  

SubBass49: Foxxinnia: SubBass49: Anyone else here find Chris Rock's joke about Blake Griffin only being 1/2 pissed off about Sterling to be really uncalled for and shiat-headed?

No because it's a joke. Hey, you even called it a joke yourself. Let me emphasize that for you, because I guess you didn't get it.

I do get it...Blake Griffin is mixed...it's not funny.  He's suggesting that White people aren't pissed off & disgusted about this whole situation.  He's also suggesting that being mixed, Griffin doesn't understand what Black people go through.  It's unfunny and idiotic.  Especially when you consider that most African-Americans have "White blood" coursing through their veins (thanks to slaveholders' propensity for rape).


I think you're reading way too much into it. Sounds very throwaway-ish to me. If anything I'm more upset that a comedian as great as Chris Rock went for a my-dad-level joke.

/My brother and I are a mix of two different types of white people
//My dad's got years of material out of it
 
2014-04-27 11:22:53 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: The girlfriend is saying she's not the one that released that tapes. The wife is standing strong, making her claim on the team while her husband is in retreat. Anyone else thinking that the wife released the tapes to punish her philandering husband and maybe toss in grounds for divorce whefe she could get a good chunk of the team and have the NBA confirm her as the majority owner?


Wouldn't the wife want to get a lawyer before doing nailing her philandering husband to the wall?  And couldn't wife now get sued for invasion of privacy if she was the one who made those tapes?

/not close to a lawyer
 
2014-04-27 11:49:58 PM  
I don't think he did anything wrong.  Hear me out........

He didn't hold a press conference and say what he said, he didn't tweet it, or hashtag it.

He was recorded in a private conversation.  He said derogatory things about a race and as an owner of a major sports franchise, he has to accept the consequences for his actions.  Rightfully so.

But everyone taking the shame on you route is boollchit.  I guarantee you Magic Johnson, Mark Jackson, all the Black Clipper players have all called a white person a cracker amongst friends.  CHit I bet they called Sterling a cracker when they heard the tapes.  Acknowledge what he did was wrong, give the mandatory im sorry press conference, and move on.  Especially the Clippers.  The Buss family has let the Lakers go to HELL, the Clippers are on the brink of being the marquee franchise in LA, do some damage control with your players and staff and move on.
 

Each and every one of us has done something racists in some way.  You tell me you love and respect every race and religion equally, and ill tell you you are full of steaming chit.
 
2014-04-27 11:53:53 PM  

ZM Punk: I don't think he did anything wrong.  Hear me out........

He didn't hold a press conference and say what he said, he didn't tweet it, or hashtag it.

He was recorded in a private conversation.  He said derogatory things about a race and as an owner of a major sports franchise, he has to accept the consequences for his actions.  Rightfully so.

But everyone taking the shame on you route is boollchit.  I guarantee you Magic Johnson, Mark Jackson, all the Black Clipper players have all called a white person a cracker amongst friends.  CHit I bet they called Sterling a cracker when they heard the tapes.  Acknowledge what he did was wrong, give the mandatory im sorry press conference, and move on.  Especially the Clippers.  The Buss family has let the Lakers go to HELL, the Clippers are on the brink of being the marquee franchise in LA, do some damage control with your players and staff and move on.
 

Each and every one of us has done something racists in some way.  You tell me you love and respect every race and religion equally, and ill tell you you are full of steaming chit.


stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2014-04-28 12:18:05 AM  
SubBass49:

Is he a racists piece of chit.  Yep.
Am I condoning what he said.  Nope
Is it news that Rich old Caucasian men are close minded racist?  ask Rick Romero

Don't know why people are treating this as breaking news.  His staff knew it when they took the job, His players knew it when they signed the contract.  Everyone knew how he was.  I'm just sick of this holy than though act everyone puts on, we've all said some off color remark or comment in a private setting.  Hell this is FARK, its pretty much expected.
 
2014-04-28 12:18:44 AM  

ZM Punk: I don't think he did anything wrong.  Hear me out........

He didn't hold a press conference and say what he said, he didn't tweet it, or hashtag it.

He was recorded in a private conversation.  He said derogatory things about a race and as an owner of a major sports franchise, he has to accept the consequences for his actions.  Rightfully so.

But everyone taking the shame on you route is boollchit.  I guarantee you Magic Johnson, Mark Jackson, all the Black Clipper players have all called a white person a cracker amongst friends.  CHit I bet they called Sterling a cracker Heeb when they heard the tapes.  Acknowledge what he did was wrong, give the mandatory im sorry press conference, and move on.  Especially the Clippers.  The Buss family has let the Lakers go to HELL, the Clippers are on the brink of being the marquee franchise in LA, do some damage control with your players and staff and move on.
 

Each and every one of us has done something racists in some way.  You tell me you love and respect every race and religion equally, and ill tell you you are full of steaming chit.


FTFY

Get your ignorant racist slurs in order.
 
2014-04-28 12:37:12 AM  

Bonzo_1116: Get your ignorant racist slurs in order


Sorry missed that one.

Heres a list of stupid racists chit Sterling has said or done in the last 30 years from deadspin

http://deadspin.com/your-complete-quotable-guide-to-decades-of-donal d- sterl-1568047212

So why is it just now becoming an outrage?
 
2014-04-28 12:45:26 AM  

ZM Punk: Bonzo_1116: Get your ignorant racist slurs in order

Sorry missed that one.

Heres a list of stupid racists chit Sterling has said or done in the last 30 years from deadspin

http://deadspin.com/your-complete-quotable-guide-to-decades-of-donal d- sterl-1568047212

So why is it just now becoming an outrage?


playoffs, most likely.
 
2014-04-28 12:57:33 AM  

ZM Punk: SubBass49:

Is he a racists piece of chit.  Yep.
Am I condoning what he said.  Nope
Is it news that Rich old Caucasian men are close minded racist?  ask Rick Romero

Don't know why people are treating this as breaking news.  His staff knew it when they took the job, His players knew it when they signed the contract.  Everyone knew how he was.  I'm just sick of this holy than though act everyone puts on, we've all said some off color remark or comment in a private setting.  Hell this is FARK, its pretty much expected.


I didn't know until now. I don't think most people knew, it is something the NBA kept quiet. In fact i don't think any of the people who have been claiming in all of the Fark threads that they knew even knew. Hell how many Fark basketball threads have there been and not once did any talk of the Clippers owner being a racist come up. People have talked about other owners, but this guy's name never came up. If all of these Farkers that now claim that they have known about him for years really knew he was a racist, you would think it would have been mentioned at least once or twice in a basketball thread before.
 
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