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(Salon)   "David Foster Wallace was right; irony is ruining our culture"   (salon.com) divider line 50
    More: Ironic, David Foster Wallace, Thomas Pynchon, Jeff Koons, Andre Agassi, irony, popular culture, visual arts, contemporary art  
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2442 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 27 Apr 2014 at 4:16 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-27 04:17:56 PM  
It's like rain when you go to a water park.
 
2014-04-27 04:18:13 PM  
Don't you think?
 
2014-04-27 04:22:22 PM  

LewDux: Don't you think?


i257.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-27 04:41:27 PM  
On one hand, I love a good cynical, sarcastic bashing of whatever.  On the other hand, when you do find something that is created with spontaneous, naive joy, it's very refreshing.

I guess the conclusion is - Salon sucks and why did I click on that.
 
2014-04-27 04:47:11 PM  
You're dead, so shut up.
 
2014-04-27 04:47:28 PM  
Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?
 
2014-04-27 04:55:14 PM  
Dummies.  Permanent Press was the death of irony.
 
2014-04-27 04:58:08 PM  
I would say that people not actually understanding what irony actually is will ruin our culture.

/don'tcha think?
 
2014-04-27 04:58:23 PM  
Wait, is this article criticizing irony sincerely, or is it just doing it as its own ironic commentary on navel-gazing social trend pieces?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-27 05:02:05 PM  
Irony: Salon is ruining our culture.
 
2014-04-27 05:07:13 PM  

bborchar: I would say that people not actually understanding what irony actually is will ruin our culture.

/don'tcha think?



You understand the world so much better than them.
 
2014-04-27 05:17:58 PM  
No one wants to read your comparative sociology midterm paper.
 
2014-04-27 05:20:25 PM  
I'll rebut with On Smarm, which points out that most rallying cries against "negative" worldviews are attempts to blunt criticism by attacking the delivery rather than rebutting the message.

In other words:  if you don't want people to be negative, you might need to give them a world worth being positive about. And no amount of art is going to make the way our world is run less crooked in the short term, soooo... good luck with that, I guess!
 
2014-04-27 05:30:43 PM  
David Alan Grier was right, David Foster Wallace is ruiningour  social commentary.
 
2014-04-27 05:32:35 PM  
Almost as self-righteously ironic as Conan's NBC Farewell Speech
 
2014-04-27 05:36:02 PM  
If DFW were with us, I think he would see this thread as confirmation of his ideas.
 
2014-04-27 05:45:15 PM  
Here's one for you farkers to figure out - I'm a pessimistic cynical nihilistic "christian" and anarchist.... So, whatever you're doing, it won't end well, you have hidden motives, it's meaningless and probably totalitarian, but hopefully soon the world will be reboot.  And whoever you are, you're an farking idiot.
 
2014-04-27 05:46:29 PM  

Jarhead_h: Here's one for you farkers to figure out - I'm a pessimistic cynical nihilistic "christian" and anarchist.... So, whatever you're doing, it won't end well, you have hidden motives, it's meaningless and probably totalitarian, but hopefully soon the world will be reboot.  And whoever you are, you're an farking idiot.


I got it.
 
2014-04-27 05:50:08 PM  
Well that was certainly long and meandering.
 
2014-04-27 05:50:17 PM  
I think I got as far as looking at the douchebags face at the top of the article.
 
2014-04-27 06:08:02 PM  
The spread of coffee bars? Germs outpacing antibiotics? Pop tarts arrested for DUIs? Strategic Irony Reserves at all time lows? Come on! Who would gain from all this?
 
2014-04-27 06:13:43 PM  
The fact that our culture is mass and derivative is the problem.
Imitation imitation.
Faux authenticity.
 
2014-04-27 06:13:56 PM  

bhcompy: Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?


He overdosed on suicide

/ironic?
 
2014-04-27 06:17:39 PM  

PanicMan: Well that was certainly long and meandering.


Much like David Foster Wallace.
 
2014-04-27 06:44:32 PM  
I just bought the Pale King in bargain hardcover (he doesn't need the money after all). Anyone read it? I loved Infinite Jest but couldn't finish The Broom of the System.
 
2014-04-27 07:01:25 PM  
I read/loved/own/plan to re-read at some point Infinite Jest.

I get why he offed himself, I think.

/dnrtfa
 
2014-04-27 07:03:50 PM  
Oh, and his essays (most notably his time on a cruise ship and experience at a State Fair) are very poignant and entertaining.
 
2014-04-27 07:04:11 PM  
boards.fightingamphibians.org
 
2014-04-27 07:07:07 PM  
Yeah, because I'm really going to take to heart a Salon article posted on Fark and written by some stupid "artist". Do these people actually get out into the real world? Because it seems like the "in" thing now is to sit around on the computer all day reading crap on the Internet and then regurgitating the most ridiculous interpretation you can possibly think of, all in the name of garnering clicks for your site so you can make money from ads doing essentially nothing but wrapping random words in "double quotes" as if that infuses them with some grander meta-meaning than they would have had without the quotes.
 
2014-04-27 07:12:56 PM  
Skeptics reject sincerity because they worry blind belief can lead to such evils as the Ku Klux Klan and Nazism.

lol, do they?
 
2014-04-27 07:31:49 PM  

on the road: If DFW were with us, I think he would see this thread as confirmation of his ideas.


what do you mean?

Old enough to know better: I think I got as far as looking at the douchebags face at the top of the article.


oh.

/thanks for proving the author's point
 
2014-04-27 07:42:33 PM  

bhcompy: Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?


He is one of the most talented writers of all time. I highly recommend "Infinite Jest". I have read it 3 times now and each time I am blown away. It is in my top 3 books I have read, maybe number 1.
 
2014-04-27 07:45:53 PM  
Charles Nelson Reilly was right.
 
2014-04-27 07:53:13 PM  
inclemency I get why he offed himself, I think.

DFW cited this place on Foothill by Supercuts, srsly...
 
2014-04-27 08:26:02 PM  
His non fiction is some of the most moving prose I have read. If I want to be moved by simple essays I go to dfw or Vonnegut.
 
2014-04-27 08:39:35 PM  
Like I give a shiat what the "Pumped up Kicks" guy thinks.
 
2014-04-27 08:58:18 PM  

spamdog: Skeptics reject sincerity because they worry blind belief can lead to such evils as the Ku Klux Klan and Nazism.

lol, do they?


Most skeptics are quite sincere about analyzing arguments with skepticism. Does that trap them in some sort of infinite loop?
 
2014-04-27 11:25:49 PM  

420Gabriel: He is one of the most talented writers of all time. I highly recommend "Infinite Jest". I have read it 3 times now and each time I am blown away. It is in my top 3 books I have read, maybe number 1.


I share your opinion, and I've only read IJ twice, but I only recommend it with reservations. It's not a book everyone's going to enjoy or even 'get'. But for someone like me whose purpose in reading fiction  sometimes is getting inside characters' heads and thereby experiencing things I never could, this book was brilliant...
 
2014-04-27 11:30:50 PM  

bhcompy: Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?


He had the rotten luck to be born with a brain hard-wired for depression and to live in a time when medical science hasn't figured out effective treatments that don't sometimes have unintended consequences. That's all.

There but for the grace of god, &c.
 
2014-04-27 11:59:28 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Charles Nelson Reilly was right.


About Paul Lynde being a lousy lay?
 
2014-04-28 12:09:26 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Yeah, because I'm really going to take to heart a Salon article posted on Fark and written by some stupid "artist". Do these people actually get out into the real world? Because it seems like the "in" thing now is to sit around on the computer all day reading crap on the Internet and then regurgitating the most ridiculous interpretation you can possibly think of, all in the name of garnering clicks for your site so you can make money from ads doing essentially nothing but wrapping random words in "double quotes" as if that infuses them with some grander meta-meaning than they would have had without the quotes.


Salon is a website written by people in coffeehouses and read by people in coffeehouses. I'd love to invite the authors to the rural Midwest town where I grew up so they could actually experience what living unironically looks like. And yes, the most popular restaurant in town is Applebees.
 
2014-04-28 01:17:49 AM  

bhcompy: Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?



There was a video going around on the facebook, etc. from one of his speeches - I think at a graduation - called 'this is water.'

It's weird that people were listening a guy who committed suicide as if he were some sort of guru on how to live a happy life. You could tell from the speech that he wasn't very happy - and that he strove to accept the shiattiness around him.

I don't know, I think that is a failed approach - it's generally best to recognize the stuff that makes you stressed out or unhappy, and try to avoid it - and to recognize the things that make you happy, and try to have lots of that stuff.

Sure, ideally, you could be stuck in a rat maze and zennishly learn to enjoy it - but, really, it's probably smarter to get out of the cage and go for a run in the park.

Yeah, when you find yourself in shiatty situations, learning to look on the bright side of life is great and all - but if your 'day by day' makes you unhappy, YA NEED TO CHANGE YOUR DAY BY DAY.
 
2014-04-28 01:53:22 AM  
David Foster Wallace also hung himself because he could no longer endure being a snobby ivy-league hack who alienated everyone around him by taking himself too seriously and treating them all like shiat. Maybe the article writer and OP should chill the hell out about what other people think is funny, rather than quoting a man who literally could not stand himself as a reliable authority on what is and isn't acceptable humor.
 
2014-04-28 01:57:28 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: I'll rebut with On Smarm, which points out that most rallying cries against "negative" worldviews are attempts to blunt criticism by attacking the delivery rather than rebutting the message.

In other words:  if you don't want people to be negative, you might need to give them a world worth being positive about. And no amount of art is going to make the way our world is run less crooked in the short term, soooo... good luck with that, I guess!


It always seems to be people at the top, the kind of folks who constantly find their empty-headed bloviating mocked, who have a problem with irony and sarcasm, too. They don't want to change how they live, they don't want to accept other views, but they're definitely always prepared to tell the rest of us to shut up.
 
2014-04-28 02:09:42 AM  
FTA:

"Anyone with the heretical gall to ask an ironist what he actually stands for ends up looking like an hysteric or a prig. And herein lies the oppressiveness of institutionalized irony, the too-successful rebel: the ability to interdict the question without attending to its subject is, when exercised, tyranny. It [uses] the very tool that exposed its enemy to insulate itself. "

Translation: "It pisses me off that every time I start an argument with a comedian, I end up looking like a jackass. Why is that? Is it that I over-estimate myself and under-estimate others? Is it that I am, in fact, a Prig? No; it's gotta be a conspiracy and I, a rich white male, am being oppressed somehow, possibly by Culture itself."
 
2014-04-28 08:07:50 AM  

Heron: David Foster Wallace also hung himself because he


You sound so positively certain of what you said, but I think you're pretending you can read dead peoples' former mental states from beyond the grave. Making shiat up, basically.

So is your insufferable smugness why you lead a happy life, then?
 
2014-04-28 09:06:59 AM  

justinguarini4ever: MrHappyRotter: Yeah, because I'm really going to take to heart a Salon article posted on Fark and written by some stupid "artist". Do these people actually get out into the real world? Because it seems like the "in" thing now is to sit around on the computer all day reading crap on the Internet and then regurgitating the most ridiculous interpretation you can possibly think of, all in the name of garnering clicks for your site so you can make money from ads doing essentially nothing but wrapping random words in "double quotes" as if that infuses them with some grander meta-meaning than they would have had without the quotes.

Salon is a website written by people in coffeehouses and read by people in coffeehouses. I'd love to invite the authors to the rural Midwest town where I grew up so they could actually experience what living unironically looks like. And yes, the most popular restaurant in town is Applebees.


You want to prove something about the culture at large by looking at a small, unrepresentative sample? A sample of people older than the norm who make their living in a manner that resembles our past. Who have by-and-large inherited their skills and capital rather than a sample of people who have to make their way unaided.

OK. You've convinced me that you know what you're doing.
 
2014-04-28 10:53:21 AM  
A smile like the cartoon, a tooth for a tooth.
 
2014-04-28 11:14:11 AM  

sweatybronson: bhcompy: Let me guess.. this was some cultural icon that either overdosed or committed suicide or committed suicide by overdose..

[Google's name]

Yup

What's it with these people and their penchant for killing themselves?


There was a video going around on the facebook, etc. from one of his speeches - I think at a graduation - called 'this is water.'

It's weird that people were listening a guy who committed suicide as if he were some sort of guru on how to live a happy life. You could tell from the speech that he wasn't very happy - and that he strove to accept the shiattiness around him.

I don't know, I think that is a failed approach - it's generally best to recognize the stuff that makes you stressed out or unhappy, and try to avoid it - and to recognize the things that make you happy, and try to have lots of that stuff.

Sure, ideally, you could be stuck in a rat maze and zennishly learn to enjoy it - but, really, it's probably smarter to get out of the cage and go for a run in the park.

Yeah, when you find yourself in shiatty situations, learning to look on the bright side of life is great and all - but if your 'day by day' makes you unhappy, YA NEED TO CHANGE YOUR DAY BY DAY.


That's all well and good, but I still have to pay rent somehow.
 
2014-04-28 03:57:49 PM  
It's threads like this that make me so, SO happy that I don't click on any Salon link, EVAR!
 
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