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(Fox News)   CDC says vaccines prevent over 700,000 child deaths in the US. Anti-Vaxxers hope to get those numbers down to less than half that   (foxnews.com) divider line 318
    More: Interesting, United States, Dr. Anne Schuchat, rubella, child deaths, vaccines  
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3268 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2014 at 9:13 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



318 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-27 08:35:02 AM  
At least the comments section makes me feel smarter than the average fauxnews commenter.
 
2014-04-27 08:39:28 AM  
HOW MANY DO THEY CAUSE?
 
2014-04-27 09:17:42 AM  
Progress!
 
2014-04-27 09:20:22 AM  
in other news, the Ford Motor Ccompany says the F150 is a good vehicle, Pepsico declares itself the best tasting soft drink, and Muhammad Ali still considers himself the greatest.

I'm not saying any of these things aren't true but consider the source.
 
2014-04-27 09:22:48 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: HOW MANY DO THEY CAUSE?


About 50 people died in 2013 secondary to vaccine adverse events.

About 7.13^e-10% of what would have died from not vaccinating.
 
2014-04-27 09:23:33 AM  

stonelotus: in other news, the Ford Motor Ccompany says the F150 is a good vehicle, Pepsico declares itself the best tasting soft drink, and Muhammad Ali still considers himself the greatest.

I'm not saying any of these things aren't true but consider the source.


The CDC doesn't make vaccines.
 
2014-04-27 09:23:34 AM  
Ought to be a federal law saying you get the vax, or jail.
It's for everyone's good.
Like getting your balls felt up at the airport.
Or having to show a licence to drive.
Prove you are safe or be quarantined.
 
2014-04-27 09:24:00 AM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: HOW MANY DO THEY CAUSE?

About 50 people died in 2013 secondary to vaccine adverse events.

About 7.13^e-10% of what would have died from not vaccinating.


And autism? Mmhmm.
 
2014-04-27 09:24:05 AM  
And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!
 
2014-04-27 09:24:35 AM  
Yes, but now they're all artistic.  And we don't have good artism classes in school anymore because of funding cutbacks, so this is a terrible disaster to be making our children artisitic like that.
 
2014-04-27 09:24:39 AM  

stonelotus: I'm not saying any of these things aren't true but consider the source.


Even a Fox News clock is right once in a while.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?
 
2014-04-27 09:25:59 AM  
I remember when people liked the Vax. Even when it broke, it could pretty well heat a large home for just under a million dollars.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-27 09:26:31 AM  
Well it didn't take long at all for the anti vaccine morons to show up.
 
2014-04-27 09:26:42 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: HOW MANY DO THEY CAUSE?

About 50 people died in 2013 secondary to vaccine adverse events.

About 7.13^e-10% of what would have died from not vaccinating.

And autism? Mmhmm.


1 in 68 now.. and pretty clearly rising.

Source:  http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html
 
2014-04-27 09:26:57 AM  
 
2014-04-27 09:28:23 AM  

stonelotus: in other news, the Ford Motor Ccompany says the F150 is a good vehicle, Pepsico declares itself the best tasting soft drink, and Muhammad Ali still considers himself the greatest.

I'm not saying any of these things aren't true but consider the source.


Did you read the article or are you just stupid?  I'm going to take a wild stab at the answers: No and Yes, in that order.
 
2014-04-27 09:28:32 AM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: And autism? Mmhmm.

Are you trolling, or are you just an idiot? The autism-vaccine link has been disproven so many times, it's not even funny.


I think AAG is trying to be like Mike but is failing at it.
 
2014-04-27 09:30:31 AM  
media.historyofvaccines.org

Oh, yeah, that's an intractable, near-unbeatable foe all right.  Here's a close-up:

jid.oxfordjournals.org

Measles literally  only exists in the US due to the anti-vaxxer morons.  Apart from their stupidity undermining the herd immunity, we can purge it so thoroughly from our population that even imported sources can't really give it a foothold.

Except for the anti-vaxxers, who catch it pretty much the instant they walk within 100 feet of an infection source (before vaccines measles had a lifetime infection rate in humans of basically 100%), and then promptly vector it to vulnerable members of the population.

Thanks, guys.
 
2014-04-27 09:30:36 AM  
This story would be more believable from MSNBC.
 
2014-04-27 09:31:47 AM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: And autism? Mmhmm.

Are you trolling, or are you just an idiot? The autism-vaccine link has been disproven so many times, it's not even funny.


Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?  Have you read any books on the subject?  Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?
 
2014-04-27 09:33:23 AM  

nexxus: And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!


Why it's almost as though they have redefined the developmental disabilities and they now apply to more cases than in the past!
 
2014-04-27 09:35:14 AM  
The comment section in that article.... the stupid... it burns!
 
2014-04-27 09:35:20 AM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: nexxus: And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!

Why it's almost as though they have redefined the developmental disabilities and they now apply to more cases than in the past!


I certainly won't argue that the definition is somewhat broader now.. and that some of the 'increase' can be attributed to the change in the defintion.

But are you're saying that's all it is?
 
2014-04-27 09:36:56 AM  

nexxus: But are you're saying that's all it is?


Pardon my typo.  Still not completely awake.
 
2014-04-27 09:36:57 AM  

nexxus: AverageAmericanGuy: hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: HOW MANY DO THEY CAUSE?

About 50 people died in 2013 secondary to vaccine adverse events.

About 7.13^e-10% of what would have died from not vaccinating.

And autism? Mmhmm.

1 in 68 now.. and pretty clearly rising.

Source:  http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html


Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common
 
2014-04-27 09:37:13 AM  
If you dont vaccinate your kids, then you have failed as a parent.

Evolutionarily speaking, the kids have stupid parents, and therefore, the kids inherited stupid genes and deserve to die and make room for the offspring of parents who are NOT so farking dumb.
 
2014-04-27 09:39:55 AM  

nexxus: Zarquon's Flat Tire: nexxus: And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!

Why it's almost as though they have redefined the developmental disabilities and they now apply to more cases than in the past!

I certainly won't argue that the definition is somewhat broader now.. and that some of the 'increase' can be attributed to the change in the defintion.

But are you're saying that's all it is?


Of course not, there are also insurance pay schedules which require a diagnosis for a doctor to bill for services. There are also more people seeking psychiatric care for children than in the past. Yesterday's weird kid is today's autism patient.

But I'd still rather my kid have a future as a programmer than have polio.
 
2014-04-27 09:41:27 AM  

nexxus: Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?


Nope. Because they usually show symptoms about 3 months before vaccination. Some of them show them as early as two months. The fact that they become obvious around the time of 9 and 12 month shots is to explain for that.

As a side note, I'm here and Hep B free thanks to Vaccines. (Needlestick in combative HepB Positive patient, 2006). I never had to deal with a childhood VPD because of vaccines.

nexxus: Have you read any books on the subject?  Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?


Yeah, actually. Let me recommend you one.
 
2014-04-27 09:41:44 AM  

nexxus: hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: And autism? Mmhmm.

Are you trolling, or are you just an idiot? The autism-vaccine link has been disproven so many times, it's not even funny.

Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?  Have you read any books on the subject?  Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?


The newest research suggests that autism develops in the 2nd trimester. Unless they are giving shots invtro your wrong.
 
2014-04-27 09:42:36 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common


The definition of autism hasn't changed significantly in a long time, as far as I know.  Do you have a source or something to back up that assertion?

And to what kind of testing are you referring?  Autism diagnosis is clinical.

Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.
 
2014-04-27 09:42:53 AM  

stonelotus: in other news, the Ford Motor Ccompany says the F150 is a good vehicle, Pepsico declares itself the best tasting soft drink, and Muhammad Ali still considers himself the greatest.

I'm not saying any of these things aren't true but consider the source.


Change that to the FTA, the FDA and the World Boxing Association and you're closer to the mark.
 
2014-04-27 09:43:05 AM  

nexxus: Zarquon's Flat Tire: nexxus: And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!

Why it's almost as though they have redefined the developmental disabilities and they now apply to more cases than in the past!

I certainly won't argue that the definition is somewhat broader now.. and that some of the 'increase' can be attributed to the change in the defintion.

But are you're saying that's all it is?


There's a lot of correlation with the fact that people are waiting till later to have children. Recent studies have shown that the brain changes that later manifest as autism show up in the womb.

But what is annoying is that spending twenty seconds on Wikipedia could tell people that. Instead they choose to repeat a well-debunked, completely pointless myth, and they do it in a disingenuous, what-do-you-think, study-it-out kind of way that gives them plausible deniability when confronted with the science.

It's annoying. Either come out and say that vaccines cause autism, and face the consequences of that belief, or spend some time looking at the work of very smart and hard-working people who did ask those questions, and try and figure out what their results mean.
 
2014-04-27 09:44:14 AM  

vudukungfu: Ought to be a federal law saying you get the vax, or jail.
It's for everyone's good.
Like getting your balls felt up at the airport.
Or having to show a licence to drive.
Prove you are safe or be quarantined.


Why would fark up a nice jail?
 
2014-04-27 09:44:20 AM  

nexxus: Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common

The definition of autism hasn't changed significantly in a long time, as far as I know.  Do you have a source or something to back up that assertion?

And to what kind of testing are you referring?  Autism diagnosis is clinical.

Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.


Dude...kinda early to toke up isn't it?
 
2014-04-27 09:45:31 AM  

A Terrible Human: hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: And autism? Mmhmm.

Are you trolling, or are you just an idiot? The autism-vaccine link has been disproven so many times, it's not even funny.

I think AAG is trying to be like Mike but is failing at it.


AAG is a character. He's acting like an "Average American Guy" would.
 
2014-04-27 09:46:10 AM  

log_jammin: AAG is a character. He's acting like an "Average American Guy" would.


Ah. Damn you, Poe's law!

/shakes tiny MMR syringe at
 
2014-04-27 09:49:08 AM  
Vaccination is the one true shining achievement of the Medical Profession in the past 2,000 years or so.
Wiping out disease is tough. Helping people whether they want it or not is just as tough.
Disease has enablers.
 
2014-04-27 09:50:19 AM  
nexxus:

I certainly won't argue that the definition is somewhat broader now.. and that some of the 'increase' can be attributed to the change in the defintion.

But are you're saying that's all it is?


The numbers you cite are not new diagnosis, it is cumulative so broader definitions and increase in diagnosis at younger and younger ages (which is happening) can certainly lead to these types of increases in TOTAL numbers.
 
2014-04-27 09:50:51 AM  

nexxus: Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common

The definition of autism hasn't changed significantly in a long time, as far as I know.  Do you have a source or something to back up that assertion?

And to what kind of testing are you referring?  Autism diagnosis is clinical.

Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.


'Expanded definition' and 'greater awareness' ARE legitimate definitions. How many pediatricians, teachers and parents were aware of Autism 2 decades ago? How many of them are aware now? The more people who recognize what a disease is, the more kids will be diagnosed. My son's preschool teacher told me she thought my son might have autism because he has a language delay (he doesn't, he simply has the delay)...but teachers are more aware of these things now.
 
2014-04-27 09:51:14 AM  
With all the overcrowding in prisons, cities, and schools, I still don't understand why we want to prevent deaths. The main problem with the earth is there is too many people. So we stop abortions, swift death penalties, euthanasia, and sickness to run their natural course.

Time to make room for those of us that want to be here.
 
2014-04-27 09:51:33 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: nexxus: Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common

The definition of autism hasn't changed significantly in a long time, as far as I know.  Do you have a source or something to back up that assertion?

And to what kind of testing are you referring?  Autism diagnosis is clinical.

Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.

Dude...kinda early to toke up isn't it?


What is this "too early" of which you speak?
 
2014-04-27 09:52:24 AM  

nexxus: Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?  Have you read any books on the subject?  Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?


The books and literature on the subject all agree that there is no link between vaccines and autism.

It's been studied so much that even just by 2001 it was already considered something between a facepalm trigger and a running joke, with people doing some of the most sarcastic studies I've seen in my career.  I think my favorite is the one that proved there was no correlation between vaccination and autism using the data from the Wakefield study that made the claim in the first place.

That's about as close to an "oh snap" as you get in science in terms of actual papers.
 
2014-04-27 09:52:32 AM  

hardinparamedic: nexxus: Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?

Nope. Because they usually show symptoms about 3 months before vaccination. Some of them show them as early as two months. The fact that they become obvious around the time of 9 and 12 month shots is to explain for that.


Do you have statistics or evidence to back that up?  There are many, many children who developed autism immediately following vacinnation or some other toxic or immune trauma.Certainly there's a genetic component, and certainly there are other causes, but I think you'd have a hard time convincing a parent that the vaccine wasn't responsible when the autism symptoms began immediately following an illness that began immediately following vaccination (as sometimes happens, normally), when the child was fine otherwise.

As a side note, I'm here and Hep B free thanks to Vaccines. (Needlestick in combative HepB Positive patient, 2006). I never had to deal with a childhood VPD because of vaccines.

I'm glad that worked out for you.  I'm not arguing that all vaccines are bad for everyone .. but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that they're good for all people all of the time.  And if you can't establish that they're good for all people all of the time, they shouldn't be mandatory.

nexxus: Have you read any books on the subject? Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?

Yeah, actually. Let me recommend you one.


Thanks.  I may check that out.  Here's one for you.
 
2014-04-27 09:53:10 AM  

nexxus: Mid_mo_mad_man: Actually its not rising. We have greatly expanded what we call autism. That and better testing makes it seem like its more common

The definition of autism hasn't changed significantly in a long time, as far as I know.  Do you have a source or something to back up that assertion?

And to what kind of testing are you referring?  Autism diagnosis is clinical.

Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.


There was a new DSM released last year, you know, the book that defines psychiatric problems. I don't think 14 months is a long time.
 
2014-04-27 09:53:42 AM  

nexxus: Zarquon's Flat Tire: nexxus: And only 1 in 6 children have a developmental disability now, so.. win!

Why it's almost as though they have redefined the developmental disabilities and they now apply to more cases than in the past!

I certainly won't argue that the definition is somewhat broader now.. and that some of the 'increase' can be attributed to the change in the defintion.

But are you're saying that's all it is?


No. There are many things that go into these 'disabilities', some of them are poor parenting and crap diets. Toxic chinese baby formulas can't help.
When I was in school these was only 1 kid like this. In the 60's they were just called "MR" for mentally retarded.
Not kidding.
I find it appalling that so many people just accept these conditions and don't question the cause.
/off my lawn
 
2014-04-27 09:55:32 AM  

nexxus: hardinparamedic: nexxus: Do you know anyone whose child developed autism directly following vaccination?

Nope. Because they usually show symptoms about 3 months before vaccination. Some of them show them as early as two months. The fact that they become obvious around the time of 9 and 12 month shots is to explain for that.

Do you have statistics or evidence to back that up?  There are many, many children who developed autism immediately following vacinnation or some other toxic or immune trauma.Certainly there's a genetic component, and certainly there are other causes, but I think you'd have a hard time convincing a parent that the vaccine wasn't responsible when the autism symptoms began immediately following an illness that began immediately following vaccination (as sometimes happens, normally), when the child was fine otherwise.

As a side note, I'm here and Hep B free thanks to Vaccines. (Needlestick in combative HepB Positive patient, 2006). I never had to deal with a childhood VPD because of vaccines.

I'm glad that worked out for you.  I'm not arguing that all vaccines are bad for everyone .. but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that they're good for all people all of the time.  And if you can't establish that they're good for all people all of the time, they shouldn't be mandatory.

nexxus: Have you read any books on the subject? Or are you just spreading the 'wisdom' of the 'masses'?

Yeah, actually. Let me recommend you one.

Thanks.  I may check that out.  Here's one for you.


I shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway...unless the child has a problem with his or her immune system, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to deny or delay vaccines. None.
 
2014-04-27 09:58:08 AM  

nexxus: Generally, 'the definition changed' and 'we test more often' aren't generally considered legitimate explanations for the increase in rate.


Since the '70s, "autism" has gone from being considered a specific psychological disorder solely rooted in the early development of language and not reliably diagnosable at all until age 5 or so, to a biologically-caused general cognitive disorder with any of an array of social behavior symptoms that potentially may be diagnosible in utero.

The word means a significantly different thing than when it was first used, and includes a number of things that initially weren't considered diseases now.  "Rate of autism" is honestly kind of misleading to begin with, since it's not even a specific disease, but a spectrum of disorders that may or may not have a shared cause (by the current definition).
 
2014-04-27 10:00:01 AM  
Ah, I thought he was just stupid, didn't realize he was trolling.  Marked, will not reply again, my bad, guys.
 
2014-04-27 10:00:20 AM  

nexxus: Do you have statistics or evidence to back that up?  There are many, many children who developed autism immediately following vacinnation or some other toxic or immune trauma.Certainly there's a genetic component, and certainly there are other causes, but I think you'd have a hard time convincing a parent that the vaccine wasn't responsible when the autism symptoms began immediately following an illness that began immediately following vaccination (as sometimes happens, normally), when the child was fine otherwise.


1) That's not how acute intoxication works. Poisonings have well defined toxidromes, especially with the components present in a vaccine. Aluminum, thimersol and other chemicals are well defined at toxic doses.
2) There are no vaccine components that are present in a dose that would even come close to causing intoxication.
3) Hannah Poling was harmed by an undiagnosed inborn metabolic error after she developed a high fever. (This seems to be the go-to case for people who claim Autism is caused by vaccine)
4) Retrospective studies have demonstrated that the symptoms of autism were present before the vaccine, they just were not picked up on.

nexxus: I'm glad that worked out for you.  I'm not arguing that all vaccines are bad for everyone .. but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that they're good for all people all of the time.  And if you can't establish that they're good for all people all of the time, they shouldn't be mandatory.


You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However wrong it may be. Unless you have a legitimate medical reason not to take a vaccine, it should be administered as a matter of public health and safety.

nexxus: Thanks.  I may check that out.  Here's one for you.


Yeah. I'm going to skip a book by a homeopath who advocates giving bleach enemas to children with autism ,among other things.

The "biomedical treatment" movement of Autism Quackery has killed many children, and crippled many more.
 
2014-04-27 10:01:02 AM  

TheSopwithTurtle: It's annoying. Either come out and say that vaccines cause autism, and face the consequences of that belief, or spend some time looking at the work of very smart and hard-working people who did ask those questions, and try and figure out what their results mean.


I think the main thrust of the anti-vax crowd is, or should be, that vaccines aren't good for everyone all of the time, and that making them mandatory because they *do* help the majority is wrong.

Certain genetic conditions impair toxin metabolism and/or detox, generally, and giving a vaccine (particularly those with toxic adjuvants, like aluminum, mercury, MSG, etc.) to people with any of a number of those conditions could easily lead to the symptoms of Autism.  That's my argument, anyway.
 
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