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(CBC)   Corporate tax rate cut repeatedly over last 10 years, but corporations contribute in 'lots of other ways' like property tax and government fees, claims apologist   (cbc.ca ) divider line
    More: Fail, effective tax rates, property taxes, Toronto Stock Exchange, Canada Revenue Agency, Canadian Business, multinational corporations, companies of Canada, tax cuts  
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827 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Apr 2014 at 1:38 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-26 11:23:31 PM  
Property tax?  Apparently someone hasnt heard of the word "abatement".
 
2014-04-26 11:50:51 PM  

Frederick: Property tax?  Apparently someone hasnt heard of the word "abatement".


Yep. Every company out there is moving to get abatements or threatening to move if they don't get one or have one extended. We probably shouldn't be so mean to the job creators though
 
2014-04-26 11:55:54 PM  
i61.tinypic.com

Anybody else get this mess?
 
2014-04-27 12:38:13 AM  
I remember reading somewhere that in the 50's corporate tax vs personal income tax was like 80/20. Now the inverse is true.
 
2014-04-27 12:49:42 AM  

fusillade762: [i61.tinypic.com image 476x335]

Anybody else get this mess?


I did.  I suspect CBC needs a tax break in order to be able to hire a new web designer.
 
2014-04-27 01:26:52 AM  
Sure they do.

Here in my city and state, they bend over backwards to give them breaks on property taxes and government fees.

Anything to beat the other guy in the race to the bottom.
 
2014-04-27 02:18:56 AM  

meat0918: Sure they do.

Here in my city and state, they bend over backwards to give them breaks on property taxes and government fees.

Anything to beat the other guy in the race to the bottom.



Only by being just like China can we save America.
 
2014-04-27 02:21:10 AM  
This is referencing Canada. You can tell because there is an apology involved.
 
2014-04-27 02:40:19 AM  
" Come on guys! We pay taxes on the massive amounts of your country that we own, too!"
 
2014-04-27 02:54:27 AM  

meat0918: Sure they do.

Here in my city and state, they bend over backwards to give them breaks on property taxes and government fees.

Anything to beat the other guy in the race to the bottom.


Just like employees. Of course you're gonna work for minimum wage, theres thirty other people willing to do it.

If the poor had any money they'd open co-op stores and make retail corporations go madder.

/contemplate reviving web van on a subscription basis
 
2014-04-27 04:06:59 AM  
The concept of a corporation is a really good *idea*. - a legal partrnership/ entity. Its a relatively new thing, legally speaking.

Look at how these companies began- Standard Oil, etc.- read 'the Jungle' for a good early history of this type of business.

And look at corporations today- GE, Monsanto, Halliburton, even so called 'good' companies like Apple or Google- its Capitalism out of control.
 
2014-04-27 06:06:41 AM  
The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.

They can't game the system if there's no system to game.
 
2014-04-27 07:14:53 AM  
But just think of all the taxes their employees pay. That has to count for something, right?

vernonFL: The concept of a corporation is a really good *idea*. - a legal partrnership/ entity. Its a relatively new thing, legally speaking.

Look at how these companies began- Standard Oil, etc.- read 'the Jungle' for a good early history of this type of business.

And look at corporations today- GE, Monsanto, Halliburton, even so called 'good' companies like Apple or Google- its Capitalism out of control.


There is a documentary called "The Corporation" which you'd probably find interesting, if you haven't seen it already.
 
2014-04-27 07:22:19 AM  

Gulper Eel: The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.

They can't game the system if there's no system to game.


Works great in a universal environment without different regions of taxes.  In this case Apple's profits on all its sales in Canada won't get taxed, just its lowly sales people will.  Good jorb!
 
2014-04-27 07:29:07 AM  

Gulper Eel: The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.


What about boosting taxes on corporations and removing them on citizens?
 
2014-04-27 07:56:20 AM  

fusillade762: Anybody else get this mess?


You know what else? Canada is paying hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to get US visual FX companies to move operations there. Especially in Vancouver. Now as soon as those subsidies dry up. *poof* They will leave. So even thought movies profit into the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. Canada doesn't see one cent of that. They just make rich Hollywood Producers even richer.
 
2014-04-27 08:01:46 AM  

Gulper Eel: The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.

They can't game the system if there's no system to game.


Corporate taxes are grossly inefficient and unnecessary. In the US our very high rate pushes corporations elsewhere and forces companies to employ significant resources trying to minimize the tax bill.

We could make up the lost revenue by taxing all investment income at ordinary rates (cap gains and dividends). So we'd eliminate the inefficient corporate tax, and as an added bonus we wouldn't have to hear the disingenuous whining about investment taxes being too low.
 
2014-04-27 08:06:29 AM  

EbolaNYC: You know what else? Canada is paying hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to get US visual FX companies to move operations there. Especially in Vancouver. Now as soon as those subsidies dry up. *poof* They will leave. So even thought movies profit into the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. Canada doesn't see one cent of that. They just make rich Hollywood Producers even richer.


Even when the Canadian dollar gets strong people here start worrying the American corporations might stop taking advantage of us. God forbid we have an even trade in anything.
 
2014-04-27 08:07:07 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Gulper Eel: The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.

What about boosting taxes on corporations and removing them on citizens?


That sounds like soshulizm.
 
2014-04-27 09:09:23 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Frederick: Property tax?  Apparently someone hasnt heard of the word "abatement".

Yep. Every company out there is moving to get abatements or threatening to move if they don't get one or have one extended. We probably shouldn't be so mean to the job creators though


If the goal is to downsize and relocate, isn't "job creators" an inverse name like "Ministry of Truth"?
 
2014-04-27 09:18:02 AM  
How can the author write? I swear they must be using both hands for other things...
 
2014-04-27 09:39:28 AM  

Mister Peejay: If the goal is to downsize and relocate, isn't "job creators" an inverse name like "Ministry of Truth"?


You bastard. It's like groundhog's day.

They saw a negative comment. Now it's six more weeks of stagnant growth.
 
2014-04-27 09:47:18 AM  

vernonFL: Look at how these companies began- Standard Oil, etc.- read 'the Jungle' for a good early history of this type of business


I've been meaning to read that, in fact I just checked amazon and it's free for kindle edition if anyone is interested.
 
2014-04-27 10:07:44 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: What about boosting taxes on corporations and removing them on citizens?


The classic chump's move. The big boys buy themselves the best breaks as it is - you want more of that? No, thanks. No, you can't close the loopholes. One loophole closes and five others open in the time it takes your congressman to hold a press conference patting himself on the back for closing the loophole.

I want to see what I pay for my government whenever possible. The income tax does that. A corporate tax does three things, all of them nontransparent and all of them stupid -

1) Hiding the cost of government from me through lost raises and weaker benefits because my employer has to pay the taxman first

2) stomping on my 401(k) returns and my wife's upcoming pension because the businesses we've invested in have to pay the taxman first - and I'll point out specifically that this applies to pension funds for government employees, which aren't generally doing all that well thanks to generations of political overpromising to public employee unions.

3) increasing the cost of all the goods and services I purchase. In effect, it's a hidden sales tax. The Fair Tax whargarblers say it's around 30% and while that's a hugely overblown number, the household's share of businesses' corporate tax nut is NOT zero. IIRC it's in the range of one-and-a-half to three percent, according to a NY Times survey (sorry, don't have the search-fu to find it. It ran in late December during 2010-12 but that's all I remember). Call it 2% to make the math easy. A household spending $50,000 in a year gets farked for a thousand bucks just on this.
 
2014-04-27 11:10:59 AM  

fusillade762: Anybody else get this mess?


Yeah it basically reads that harper gobbles corporate knob every chance he gets.
 
2014-04-27 11:44:57 AM  

Gulper Eel: J. Frank Parnell: What about boosting taxes on corporations and removing them on citizens?

The classic chump's move. The big boys buy themselves the best breaks as it is - you want more of that? No, thanks. No, you can't close the loopholes. One loophole closes and five others open in the time it takes your congressman to hold a press conference patting himself on the back for closing the loophole.

I want to see what I pay for my government whenever possible. The income tax does that. A corporate tax does three things, all of them nontransparent and all of them stupid -

1) Hiding the cost of government from me through lost raises and weaker benefits because my employer has to pay the taxman first

2) stomping on my 401(k) returns and my wife's upcoming pension because the businesses we've invested in have to pay the taxman first - and I'll point out specifically that this applies to pension funds for government employees, which aren't generally doing all that well thanks to generations of political overpromising to public employee unions.

3) increasing the cost of all the goods and services I purchase. In effect, it's a hidden sales tax. The Fair Tax whargarblers say it's around 30% and while that's a hugely overblown number, the household's share of businesses' corporate tax nut is NOT zero. IIRC it's in the range of one-and-a-half to three percent, according to a NY Times survey (sorry, don't have the search-fu to find it. It ran in late December during 2010-12 but that's all I remember). Call it 2% to make the math easy. A household spending $50,000 in a year gets farked for a thousand bucks just on this.


That's not quite how it works, tho. The producers of goods charge what the market will bear to maximise profits. And while this tax does create what economists call 'deadweight loss', if the tax component were removed, most of that would go to the company, and would not result in lower prices in the consumer side. Thus, lowering corporate tax in not an effective method of reducing consumer prices.
 
2014-04-27 11:46:08 AM  

Gulper Eel: 1) Hiding the cost of government from me through lost raises and weaker benefits because my employer has to pay the taxman first


Is payroll not exempted as a business expense in your reality?

The rest of your rant sounds like stock "WE CAN'T TOUCH THEM OR THEY WON'T GIVE ANYONE JOBS." Bullshiat.

Strip them of corporate personhood. Outlaw lobbying. Revoke corporate charters for blatant negligence and malfeasance. Hold C-level executives financially and legally responsible for the same.

Then we can talk about zeroing their taxes.
 
2014-04-27 12:24:32 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Gulper Eel: The taxes (and subsidies) should be zero anyway. Make up any difference with higher individual tax rates.

They can't game the system if there's no system to game.

Corporate taxes are grossly inefficient and unnecessary. In the US our very high rate pushes corporations elsewhere and forces companies to employ significant resources trying to minimize the tax bill.

We could make up the lost revenue by taxing all investment income at ordinary rates (cap gains and dividends). So we'd eliminate the inefficient corporate tax, and as an added bonus we wouldn't have to hear the disingenuous whining about investment taxes being too low.


I'm a left-wing liberal and this is also what I think about corporate taxes. Plus, it shuts up the baggers when they yap about double taxation.
 
2014-04-27 01:07:18 PM  

EbolaNYC: fusillade762: Anybody else get this mess?

You know what else? Canada is paying hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to get US visual FX companies to move operations there. Especially in Vancouver. Now as soon as those subsidies dry up. *poof* They will leave. So even thought movies profit into the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. Canada doesn't see one cent of that. They just make rich Hollywood Producers even richer.


Nobody dodges taxes and unions like a rich Hollywood liberal.
 
2014-04-27 03:52:48 PM  

Sim Tree: That's not quite how it works, tho. The producers of goods charge what the market will bear to maximise profits. And while this tax does create what economists call 'deadweight loss', if the tax component were removed, most of that would go to the company, and would not result in lower prices in the consumer side. Thus, lowering corporate tax in not an effective method of reducing consumer prices.


I'm not expecting prices to fall by all that much; at most they'd fall by the same 1.5-3% I mentioned earlier. I would expect individuals with investments, large and small, to do better. They'll be taxed on that, of course.

And there would be upward pressure on wages and in favor of unions, who would have an new bargaining chip, as noted below by Fallout Zone- now that Daddy Warbucks doesn't have to pay the taxman, how's about a better contract, hm?

Any solution that gives central governments more power to sell contains the seeds of its own failure.
 
2014-04-27 07:24:12 PM  
The US used to have fairly high corporate tax rates (well, compared to everything else, not to other countries, with the one possible exception of Japan). These rates were higher than Canadian corporate tax rates. I wonder if that is still true?

Found a Deloitte document (PDF) that lists Canadian top marginal tax rates:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Canada/Local%20Assets/Documents/ Ta x/EN/2013/ca_en_tax_2013_Top-marginal_tax_rates_310713.pdf

Another PDF doc lists the corporate tax rates:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Canada/Local%20Assets/Documents/ Ta x/EN/2013/ca_en_tax_Corporate_income_tax_rates2010_2014_310713.pdf

The Federal corporate tax rate on large and medium-sized companies has been 15% for some years, below the not-so-old US rate of 19%. The rate for small businesses is lower still at 11.5%. I can live with lower taxes on small businesses because they are shakier (many fail in the first year) and because they have fewer ways of avoiding taxes and bureaucratic costs, fees, etc.

It is strictly true that the combined provincial and federal taxes can be over 25% but I am sure this is half misdirection and half truth at best. The big companies can afford to juggle numbers, profits and everything, including the truth, the law, and the governments. That's why they have accountants, lawyers and lobbyists plus quite a few of their accountants, lawyers and lobbyists sitting in the legislatures of the world.

I think small businesses deserve our encouragement because they make ALL OF THE JOBS, so I don't mind a progressive tax rate. Well, most all jobs, at any rate. The giants devour jobs rather than make them. The Fortune 1000 list hasn't made a job between them since 1945. They probably made jobs during the War but that was because you had full employment or even negative unemployment with all those women and kids and old folks moving into the labor force to take up jobs vacated by the military personnel. Small and a few medium or large businesses do most of the innovation, creative work, job-making and tax-paying. The Great Lords of Commerce and Industry are as exempt from service as the Great Lords and Royalty were in the Middle Ages.

Serfdom changes names, but it is still subjection and exploitation in every age and place.
 
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