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(The Daily Caller)   Are you white? Do you use the word "fiesta" when throwing a Cinco de Mayo charity fundraiser? Then you are as racist as a deadbeat cattle rancher in Nevada who hangs out with the owner of the Clippers   (dailycaller.com) divider line 303
    More: Asinine, Clippers, Cinco de Mayo, white people, Dartmouth, person of color, charity, racists  
•       •       •

7197 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2014 at 5:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



303 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-26 06:13:25 PM  
White = racist.

Thread over.
 
2014-04-26 06:13:47 PM  

AngryDragon: Are you white? Do you use the word "fiesta" when throwing a Cinco de Mayo charity fundraiser? Then you are as racist as a deadbeat cattle rancher in Nevada who hangs out with the owner of the Clippers

At least that's what I'm being told.

/white guy


Then stop reading the Daily Caller and other derpfests. Legitimate news sources don't call all white people racist, only conservative outrage machines do that.
 
2014-04-26 06:14:08 PM  

GORDON: And I don't see why these things should be illegal, just because it might hurt someones feelings.  Typically I don't care either way about most people, but when I am compelled by law to be sensitive to someone elses feelings, my response is usually to go out of my way to offend them because, basically, fark their feelings.


No one said they should be illegal. I mean, I disagree with  lacydog about not celebrating the holiday, but there's no way the post could be read to suggest it should be illegal. You just made that up.
 
2014-04-26 06:14:22 PM  

cig-mkr: And I'm offended by Cracker Barrel, can we do something about that?


Yes - order the meatloaf. It's awesome!
 
2014-04-26 06:15:21 PM  

Rincewind53: lacydog: Why should it be perfectly acceptable for a bunch of white students to just decide they're throwing a "Mexican" party, with little or no actual knowledge of what Mexican culture is like? The lady who wrote the letter is right - Cinco de Mayo is basically just treated as an excuse to dress in ridiculous ponchos/sombreros and drink tequila for white people. It's parading around a bunch of cultural assumptions and stereotypes for cheap thrills.

The "dressing in ponchos/sombreros" thing  is racist, I agree. That's appropriating a specific cultural tradition (though sombreros are actually Spanish in origin, not Mexican). Eating Tex-Mex (which is essentially American anyway) and drinking tequila, on the other hand, is not. Setting aside the idea of "Mexican" as a race (it's not), it's more important to recognize that  Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday. The entire holiday began in Mexican-American communities in the 1860s. This isn't some new holiday to have in America; it's been around for 150 years, primarily celebrated in Mexican-American communities in the United States. Mexicans barely celebrate it, and those that do are actually influenced by the holiday's celebration here in the United States. The holiday has expanded from its roots in California and across the nation, and that's not a bad thing; it's the same thing that Americans did for St. Patrick's Day. It's a day to celebrate the Mexican-American community, to recognize that it exist and is a vital part of the United States, and to have some fun.

lacydog: That we've done it for decades/centuries, doesn't mean that it's *right*. What's wrong for asking for a little more introspection about why we do these things? About whether we *should* do these things.

We should have introspection about these things, but we should also recognize that it's not necessarily a bad thing for a holiday created in the Mexican-American community to spread outside the Mexican-American community to other parts of the country. We are a melting pot; the Mexican-American community has taken on many aspects of other cultures, and we in turn take on some of theirs.


There's nothing left to say. Nailed it.
 
2014-04-26 06:15:44 PM  

Bonzo_1116: Dressing up like Frito Bandito---that's where the stupid comes in.


Welcome, American Tourist!

Buy this souvenir sombrero and poncho, and enjoy your stay in Acapulco! However, don't you farking DARE wear it when you leave.
 
2014-04-26 06:15:46 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-04-26 06:16:35 PM  
She decreed her distaste for "the Americanization of Cinco de Mayo and its construction as a drinking holiday in the United States ...


www.waterwayscruises.com

On behalf of my Irish great-grandparents and St. Patrick's Day, I'd just like to tell this coont to STFU.

Oh and ...

rlv.zcache.com
 
2014-04-26 06:17:32 PM  
Taking offense at a bunch of people partying with a ton of food, booze, and music?

Are they sure she's Mexican?


/1/2Mex
//1/4French, 1/8Irish, 1/8English
//Mixican FTW
 
2014-04-26 06:18:02 PM  
The tone of the article leads me to find it suspect.

On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised that a college kid group bowed to the complaints of another college kid or whatever.

So.. meh.  Nobody even outlawed the party, that I can tell.  They just decided not to do it because someone complained.  So, yeah, it's "official" that white people can't say fiesta.


Fiesta.
/Fiesta.
 
2014-04-26 06:18:58 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Bonzo_1116: Dressing up like Frito Bandito---that's where the stupid comes in.

Welcome, American Tourist!

Buy this souvenir sombrero and poncho, and enjoy your stay in Acapulco! However, don't you farking DARE wear it when you leave.


Best use of the shiatty tourist sombrero I ever saw was a Mexican guy wearing one to a World Cup soccer game in South Korea. A bunch of locals lined up to take pictures with him.
 
2014-04-26 06:19:22 PM  
Honestly, the use of the word, of the Celebration of Cinco de Mayo in the US, is not very offensive to me.

To be honest, if the Chicano community want to use it as a way to honor their Mexican roots, all the more to them. If the rest of the Americans wants to use it as a drinking day, it may be a little annoying... If I didn't knew the historic basis on the date: Mexican troops defeated Mexican troops led by Frenchmen, but ultimately began to lose the war, but we won because of sudden assistance by the US (who they helped us because of the Monroe Doctrine, not that the American Government ever liked Mexico), and Russia was threatening war against the French.

And also... Cultural Apropriation? Ma'am, I'm mestizo, and I'm sure you are too. We are the living embodiment of cultural apropriation. Honestly, being Mexican is the most conflicting bullshiat ever, because we're not European enough, and we definitely are not Natives. We're something in between that, quite frankly, no one likes, not even ourselves (read: The Labyrinth of Solitude, by Octavio Paz).
 
2014-04-26 06:20:11 PM  

Bonzo_1116: Lenny_da_Hog: Bonzo_1116: Dressing up like Frito Bandito---that's where the stupid comes in.

Welcome, American Tourist!

Buy this souvenir sombrero and poncho, and enjoy your stay in Acapulco! However, don't you farking DARE wear it when you leave.

Best use of the shiatty tourist sombrero I ever saw was a Mexican guy wearing one to a World Cup soccer game in South Korea. A bunch of locals lined up to take pictures with him.


O.o... Well, I'll be damned.
 
2014-04-26 06:20:20 PM  

rebelyell2006: AngryDragon: Are you white? Do you use the word "fiesta" when throwing a Cinco de Mayo charity fundraiser? Then you are as racist as a deadbeat cattle rancher in Nevada who hangs out with the owner of the Clippers

At least that's what I'm being told.

/white guy

Then stop reading the Daily Caller and other derpfests. Legitimate news sources don't call all white people racist, only conservative outrage machines do that.


To be fair, loonies on both sides do it.  Although as this thread shows it DOES seem to be way more common and loud from that side.
 
2014-04-26 06:21:22 PM  
You can tell the relative strength or weakness of a culture by the things they take offence at.
 
2014-04-26 06:21:36 PM  

Rincewind53: GORDON: And I don't see why these things should be illegal, just because it might hurt someones feelings.  Typically I don't care either way about most people, but when I am compelled by law to be sensitive to someone elses feelings, my response is usually to go out of my way to offend them because, basically, fark their feelings.

No one said they should be illegal. I mean, I disagree with  lacydog about not celebrating the holiday, but there's no way the post could be read to suggest it should be illegal. You just made that up.


It was pretty clearly the intent of what she said.  She may have not expressed herself clearly, but I think it is a little extreme to suggest I am being dishonest because of the way I interpreted "people should have to" as legal compulsion.
 
2014-04-26 06:22:38 PM  
White person celebrates Cinco de Mayo = racist
White person celebrates MLK JR day = racist
White person celebrates Christmas = racist
White person celebrates St. Patricks day = racist

I would add Thanksgiving, because the Indians are still pissed off over it, but they have casinos now so they don't care.
 
2014-04-26 06:23:01 PM  

redsquid: Lorelle: redsquid: So does Senorita Hernandez come to class dressed like this-
[sd33.senate.ca.gov image 667x500]

or does she just shop at Walmart and commit 'cultural appropriation and the inappropriate usage of cultural clothing'?

Those are folklorico dancers' costumes...the average Mexican woman doesn't wear such clothes daily.

And the average Mexican doesn't wear a sombrero, poncho, bandolier or shaggy moustache on a daily basis either. The point I'm making is that an American wearing a sombrero to a party is no more racist or culturally insensitive than a non-european wearing a business suit.


Depends on how it's done. It's funny when waiters at Mexican restaurants put sombreros on people (white, black, brown, whatever) and sing to them. It's not so funny when non-Mexicans put on sombreros, serapes, fake mustaches, and hold up stupid signs.

The mustachioed brown dudes one sees hanging out at Home Depot usually wear baseball caps.
 
2014-04-26 06:23:26 PM  
Fark you, my state was part of Mexico.  And not that long ago.

/also part of the Republic of Texas more recently
/not proud about that one
 
2014-04-26 06:25:05 PM  
I'm sick of seeing Latinos and black people at the St. Patty's Day festivities getting all drunk and pretending to be what they think Irish is.  It's racist and offensive.
 
2014-04-26 06:25:28 PM  

Misconduc: White person celebrates Cinco de Mayo = racist
White person celebrates MLK JR day = racist
White person celebrates Christmas = racist
White person celebrates St. Patricks day = racist

I would add Thanksgiving, because the Indians are still pissed off over it, but they have casinos now so they don't care.


I wonder if the Italians are pissed at that Austrian Mozart guy for cultural appropriation of opera.
 
2014-04-26 06:26:00 PM  

Bonzo_1116: lacydog: Why should it be perfectly acceptable for a bunch of white students to just decide they're throwing a "Mexican" party, with little or no actual knowledge of what Mexican culture is like? The lady who wrote the letter is right - Cinco de Mayo is basically just treated as an excuse to dress in ridiculous ponchos/sombreros and drink tequila for white people. It's parading around a bunch of cultural assumptions and stereotypes for cheap thrills.

Rincewind53: Shostie: Also, I'm Irish and nominally Catholic. You don't see me b*tching about St. Patrick's Day.

Exactly. America is the land where international holidays come to be butchered, thrown into a meat grinder, and turned into capitalist sausage.

If the holiday is even the slightest bit fun, we can add alcohol to it, slap a few corporate logos on a sponsorship event, and away we go.

See, for example:
- St. Patrick's Day
- Cinco de Mayo
- Diwali

That we've done it for decades/centuries, doesn't mean that it's *right*. What's wrong for asking for a little more introspection about why we do these things? About whether we *should* do these things.

If the holiday involves food and alcohol, of course we should participate. Just imagine how sad it would be if our only festival was the Fourth of July; Budweiser and a hotdog grilling session just isn't enough.

Not a thing wrong with Cinco De Mayo, they barely celebrate that in Mexico anyway, it's pretty much an American holiday at this point. Dressing up like Frito Bandito---that's where the stupid comes in.


Cinco de Mayo IS an American holiday. It was literally created and first celebrated (as we know it) by Americans in the USA.
 
2014-04-26 06:26:19 PM  
that's it! we're putting dartmouth on double secret probation
 
2014-04-26 06:26:41 PM  

CygnusDarius: Honestly, the use of the word, of the Celebration of Cinco de Mayo in the US, is not very offensive to me.

To be honest, if the Chicano community want to use it as a way to honor their Mexican roots, all the more to them. If the rest of the Americans wants to use it as a drinking day, it may be a little annoying... If I didn't knew the historic basis on the date: Mexican troops defeated Mexican troops led by Frenchmen, but ultimately began to lose the war, but we won because of sudden assistance by the US (who they helped us because of the Monroe Doctrine, not that the American Government ever liked Mexico), and Russia was threatening war against the French.

And also... Cultural Apropriation? Ma'am, I'm mestizo, and I'm sure you are too. We are the living embodiment of cultural apropriation. Honestly, being Mexican is the most conflicting bullshiat ever, because we're not European enough, and we definitely are not Natives. We're something in between that, quite frankly, no one likes, not even ourselves (read: The Labyrinth of Solitude, by Octavio Paz).


Looking things up for my comments lead me to a rather fascinating article on the history of Cinco de Mayo as a holiday, from its roots in San Francisco as part of the burgeoning Mexican nationalist movement. It seems like the real creator was the newspaper  La Voz de Méjico, which first pushed for a celebration of the victory of the Battle of Puebla the year after it occurred, on May 5, 1863. The newspaper was part of a real push to get recognition and support for the embattled Mexican army, which was (even at the time) still fighting against the French. So Cinco de Mayo emerged as a real PR holiday, as a way to unite the Mexican-American community to support the homefront by sending money, arms, and other kinds of support.

The fascinating article is here (pdf), lots of things I did not know about. Enjoy!
 
2014-04-26 06:26:52 PM  
img.fark.net

I not only say it, I eat off of it
 
2014-04-26 06:27:20 PM  
I think the fact that they had to cancel this party is evidence of an intolerant climate at Dartmouth. I already told my kid not to bother applying to Columbia, now we can add Dartmouth to the list. And of course the schools rep for drunkenness and debauchery and lack of respect for women has actually caused applications to drop.

/ of course my kid can go wherever, it's a question of what I'll pay for.
 
2014-04-26 06:27:48 PM  

GORDON: fusillade762: Link to original article for those who prefer avoiding two layers of right-wing derp.

Thanks.  It is important to me that information be presented in the correct way.


You mean without the ginned-up outrage? Me too.
 
2014-04-26 06:27:53 PM  

Diogenes: cig-mkr: And I'm offended by Cracker Barrel, can we do something about that?

Yes - order the meatloaf. It's awesome!


With corn, mashed potatoes, fried apples.
Just had that last Tuesday
 
2014-04-26 06:28:12 PM  
Racism will only go away when it stops being salacious to talk about bull like this story.
 
2014-04-26 06:28:22 PM  
mylitter.com

All fiesta supplies must be purchased at fiesta and eaten on fiestaware or your fiesta doesn't count.
 
2014-04-26 06:29:26 PM  

Marquis de Sod: I not only say it, I eat off of it


Watch out, the original orange ones are radioactive. Uranium in the glaze.
 
2014-04-26 06:29:27 PM  

Lorelle: redsquid: Lorelle: redsquid: So does Senorita Hernandez come to class dressed like this-
[sd33.senate.ca.gov image 667x500]

or does she just shop at Walmart and commit 'cultural appropriation and the inappropriate usage of cultural clothing'?

Those are folklorico dancers' costumes...the average Mexican woman doesn't wear such clothes daily.

And the average Mexican doesn't wear a sombrero, poncho, bandolier or shaggy moustache on a daily basis either. The point I'm making is that an American wearing a sombrero to a party is no more racist or culturally insensitive than a non-european wearing a business suit.

Depends on how it's done. It's funny when waiters at Mexican restaurants put sombreros on people (white, black, brown, whatever) and sing to them. It's not so funny when non-Mexicans put on sombreros, serapes, fake mustaches, and hold up stupid signs.

The mustachioed brown dudes one sees hanging out at Home Depot usually wear baseball caps.


Making a caricature of a culture is one thing, but the description of the party they planned for the charity seemed quite innocuous. Semi-Mexican food and non-alcoholic drinks doesn't seem that racist in the grand scheme of things. Sounds like arena en el cono to me.
 
2014-04-26 06:29:45 PM  

CygnusDarius: And also... Cultural Apropriation? Ma'am, I'm mestizo, and I'm sure you are too. We are the living embodiment of cultural apropriation. Honestly, being Mexican is the most conflicting bullshiat ever, because we're not European enough, and we definitely are not Natives. We're something in between that, quite frankly, no one likes, not even ourselves (read: The Labyrinth of Solitude, by Octavio Paz).


Very true. I consider myself to be biracial (I'm 1/4 Native).
 
2014-04-26 06:30:14 PM  

Misconduc: White person celebrates Cinco de Mayo = racist
White person celebrates MLK JR day = racist
White person celebrates Christmas = racist
White person celebrates St. Patricks day = racist

I would add Thanksgiving, because the Indians are still pissed off over it, but they have casinos now so they don't care.


Our lives are so hard.
 
2014-04-26 06:30:31 PM  
Is one still considered racist if one basically has no respect for anyone and doesn't care about offending any particular group?
 
2014-04-26 06:30:53 PM  

oukewldave: I'm sick of seeing Latinos and black people at the St. Patty's Day festivities getting all drunk and pretending to be what they think Irish is.  It's racist and offensive.


I don't drink on St. pattys day, I celebrate my Irish roots and don't worry about what others are doing. This lady should do something similar instead of making a stink.
 
2014-04-26 06:31:08 PM  
I wonder if she's ever been into a Taco Bell?
 
2014-04-26 06:31:55 PM  

AngryDragon: Are you white? Do you use the word "fiesta" when throwing a Cinco de Mayo charity fundraiser? Then you are as racist as a deadbeat cattle rancher in Nevada who hangs out with the owner of the Clippers

At least that's what I'm being told.

/white guy


Nobody but whiny racist conservatives with a persecution complex who want to build a strawman is "telling you that"
 
2014-04-26 06:32:18 PM  

GORDON: Rincewind53: GORDON: And I don't see why these things should be illegal, just because it might hurt someones feelings.  Typically I don't care either way about most people, but when I am compelled by law to be sensitive to someone elses feelings, my response is usually to go out of my way to offend them because, basically, fark their feelings.

No one said they should be illegal. I mean, I disagree with  lacydog about not celebrating the holiday, but there's no way the post could be read to suggest it should be illegal. You just made that up.

It was pretty clearly the intent of what she said.  She may have not expressed herself clearly, but I think it is a little extreme to suggest I am being dishonest because of the way I interpreted "people should have to" as legal compulsion.


I think you need to go back and read the post again.  lacydog at no one point said "people should have to"; I'm not sure where you're getting that from (the student at Dartmouth didn't say that either). She suggested that Americans be introspective "[a]bout whether we *should* do these things." It's an extremely far cry from "I think Americans should think about whether they should be celebrating Cinco de Mayo" to your interpretation that she wants to make it illegal. Not only would such a law be unconstitutional, but it's ridiculous to think that  any person would want to make celebrating a holiday illegal. It's absurd on its face.

Do a ctrl+f in this thread, you'll find that you are the first person to say "people should have to."
 
2014-04-26 06:32:20 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: She decreed her distaste for "the Americanization of Cinco de Mayo and its construction as a drinking holiday in the United States ...


[www.waterwayscruises.com image 512x522]

On behalf of my Irish great-grandparents and St. Patrick's Day, I'd just like to tell this coont to STFU.

Oh and ...

[rlv.zcache.com image 324x324]


The Girl in the article has a slightly better case because Mexicans actually added some value to American culture.
 
2014-04-26 06:32:26 PM  

Moopy Mac: Misconduc: White person celebrates Cinco de Mayo = racist
White person celebrates MLK JR day = racist
White person celebrates Christmas = racist
White person celebrates St. Patricks day = racist

I would add Thanksgiving, because the Indians are still pissed off over it, but they have casinos now so they don't care.

Our lives are so hard.


And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter
 
2014-04-26 06:33:09 PM  

Moopy Mac: Danger Avoid Death: She decreed her distaste for "the Americanization of Cinco de Mayo and its construction as a drinking holiday in the United States ...


[www.waterwayscruises.com image 512x522]

On behalf of my Irish great-grandparents and St. Patrick's Day, I'd just like to tell this coont to STFU.

Oh and ...

[rlv.zcache.com image 324x324]

The Girl in the article has a slightly better case because Mexicans actually added some value to American culture.


And then you had to create Taco Bell.
 
2014-04-26 06:33:10 PM  

lacydog: Rincewind53: Shostie: Also, I'm Irish and nominally Catholic. You don't see me b*tching about St. Patrick's Day.

Exactly. America is the land where international holidays come to be butchered, thrown into a meat grinder, and turned into capitalist sausage.

If the holiday is even the slightest bit fun, we can add alcohol to it, slap a few corporate logos on a sponsorship event, and away we go.

See, for example:
- St. Patrick's Day
- Cinco de Mayo
- Diwali


That we've done it for decades/centuries, doesn't mean that it's *right*. What's wrong for asking for a little more introspection about why we do these things? About whether we *should* do these things.



I was riding a ski lift with an Irishman one March, and I asked him specifically about this.  I asked if St. Patrick's day was considered a genuine religious holiday in Ireland, and did they think we were jerks for what we did to it.  He looked at me like I had 3 eyes and said, "fark no, we get paralytic."

So I don't feel too oppressive about St Paddy any more  but I still won't drink green beer.
 
2014-04-26 06:33:45 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: I wonder if she's ever been into a Taco Bell?


I and most brown people I know despise Taco Hell. It's pseudo-Mexican food for people who don't know any better.
 
2014-04-26 06:34:10 PM  
A fiesta is better than a pinto. At least if you get hit, the fiesta won't explode.
 
2014-04-26 06:34:40 PM  

Kit Fister: Is one still considered racist if one basically has no respect for anyone and doesn't care about offending any particular group?


I hate everyone equally; its only fair if you hate one person you might as well hate them all, if not you are a damn racist.
 
2014-04-26 06:35:07 PM  

hardinparamedic: A fiesta is better than a pinto. At least if you get hit, the fiesta won't explode.


It could be worse...at least it isn't a Nova.
 
2014-04-26 06:35:36 PM  

Lorelle: Lenny_da_Hog: I wonder if she's ever been into a Taco Bell?

I and most brown people I know despise Taco Hell. It's pseudo-Mexican food for people who don't know any better.


In other words, it's cultural appropriation that cheapens the culture it was stolen from?
 
2014-04-26 06:36:37 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Lorelle: Lenny_da_Hog: I wonder if she's ever been into a Taco Bell?

I and most brown people I know despise Taco Hell. It's pseudo-Mexican food for people who don't know any better.

In other words, it's cultural appropriation that cheapens the culture it was stolen from?


It's an affront to the digestive system.
 
2014-04-26 06:36:39 PM  

Lorelle: Lenny_da_Hog: I wonder if she's ever been into a Taco Bell?

I and most brown people I know despise Taco Hell. It's pseudo-Mexican food for people who don't know any better.


I'm a white guy and even I despise Taco Bell. If I want Mexican food, I will damn well go to a Mexican restaurant and get it. I don't even go to Tex-Mex places anymore, because of how mediocre the food usually is.

That said, there was a really sad piece on This American Life about young Mexican-American adults who grew up in the United States as undocumented immigrants and got deported back to Mexico, and how they even miss Taco Bell, even in the face of the fact that they can get incredibly good tacos around the corner. To them, it's a symbol of the United States and they miss it, since there are no Taco Bells in Mexico.
 
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