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(Townhall)   Headline: "5 Lives Wrecked By Obamacare". Reality: insurance company, insurance company, all these sick people hogging doctors, insurance company and didn't buy a new plan, shiatty boss and didn't buy a new plan   (townhall.com) divider line 174
    More: Fail, obamacare, Michael Grimm, Staten Island Advance, atm machine  
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2102 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Apr 2014 at 1:16 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



174 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-26 01:19:22 PM
Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

/me goes to scrub browser
 
2014-04-26 01:19:43 PM
Much like beauty, conservative logic is skin deep.
 
2014-04-26 01:22:20 PM
If only these people were conservatives, then they would know the importance if personal responsibility and not be in this mess.
 
2014-04-26 01:23:56 PM
Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.
 
2014-04-26 01:26:47 PM

jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.


Actual actual reality: Penis, penis, penis, wait... nope, that's a penis, penis.
 
2014-04-26 01:27:40 PM

jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.


..so what you're saying is we should have had single-payer?
 
2014-04-26 01:29:52 PM

jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,


If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"
 
2014-04-26 01:30:19 PM
Last i checked insurance companies aren't run by the government or Obamacare but dont let that tiny problem get in the way...
 
2014-04-26 01:34:07 PM
Obamacare shot my dog and humped my wife!

/she had the gold plan so she was OK with it.

//the dog not so much
 
2014-04-26 01:34:16 PM

Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.


Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.

i62.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-26 01:35:24 PM

The Bestest: jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.

..so what you're saying is we should have had single-payer?


Exactly. Or stated another way: "We royally screwed this up, DOUBLE DOWN!"
 
2014-04-26 01:35:48 PM

jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.


No derp reality : Subby got it right.
 
2014-04-26 01:36:05 PM

jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.


My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.
 
2014-04-26 01:36:39 PM

Target Builder: If only these people were conservatives, then they would know the importance if personal responsibility and not be in this mess.


Exactly.  If these welfare lagabouts were worth a damn, they would have pulled their bootstraps and taken care of their own damn health insurance needs when the Heritage Foundation Care Act passed.  What, is the government supposed to do everything for them?
 
2014-04-26 01:36:42 PM

jjorsett: The Bestest: jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.

..so what you're saying is we should have had single-payer?

Exactly. Or stated another way: "We royally screwed this up, DOUBLE DOWN!"


And yet, you can't find one single screwup.
 
2014-04-26 01:38:03 PM
Hmmmm...  aside from number 3, not a single one of those would happen in a responsibly run single payer environment.

As for number 3, I'm not sure if a similar entity exists in the US, but when I was looking for a new family doctor because I moved to a different town I looked online at the The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario.  It had (and I assume still does) a list of all doctors and you can search geographically and include only doctors accepting new patients.  I found a doctor in less than an hour.

Also, in my country (Canada), there could be a problem with outpatient prescription meds because that's insured privately here.  Generally though it's not too hard to make sure you've got some kind of private insurance... even though private insurance sucks.  My private insurance is run through my labour organization.  It's not bad, but it's no where near as good as our public system.
 
2014-04-26 01:38:41 PM
So in story #2, their previous insurance did what obamacare is fixing. Then after already paying 50000, they are claiming that 800/month is "too much". We need to bottle up and deploy that weapons-grade stupidity.
 
2014-04-26 01:39:24 PM

jjorsett: Exactly. Or stated another way: "We royally screwed this up, DOUBLE DOWN!"


Alright then.. how do we get to single-payer then?
 
2014-04-26 01:39:38 PM

Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"


If the poors can go to the doctor, that means less doctoring for me! How am I supposed to get my athlete's foot checked if they're allowed to get workups for their poverty-related pre-existing conditions?
 
2014-04-26 01:40:29 PM

jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.


There is disagreement, then there is hyperbole.

Townhall isn't one known for disagreement.
 
2014-04-26 01:41:14 PM

Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"


Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.
 
2014-04-26 01:42:50 PM
The right wing true believers are still repeating the fake Nancy Pelosi quote and claiming Congress passed the bill without ever reading it. Despite the video out there of the actual quote. Four years later, they're still repeating it.

No matter how thoroughly you debunk their talking points, they remain true believers. Given how many people believe in angels and heaven and ghosts, it's no surprise.
 
2014-04-26 01:43:11 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.

My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.


October of what year?
 
2014-04-26 01:43:30 PM

jjorsett: Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"

Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.


Except that no, Obamacare is doing nothing like "rationing"
 
2014-04-26 01:44:36 PM
Townhall? 5 item list? Do I detect the flatulent odor of John Hawkins? Not going to bother to click the link.

And before someone starts with liberal echo chamber and all that, let me say this. I don't feel the need to consider and address the points raised by Townhall for the exact same reason I don't feel the need to consider the points raised by the homeless guy standing on the street corner at three in three morning drunkenly screaming at the top of his lungs about the CIA microchips in his head.

Townhall hasn't earned the right to be taken seriously. I'm amazed that conservatives take it seriously. Even though it's your side, it's still crap.
 
2014-04-26 01:44:42 PM

jjorsett: Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.


Better than rationing though socio-economic class.  At least this way there's a chance that at some point the public and private sector might work together to solve issues.  Then again, we're probably more likely to see the kind of ideological profit driven "cutting off your nose to spite your face" behaviour that's so in vogue these days.
 
2014-04-26 01:44:55 PM
Townhall: The place to go when even fox news has capitulated to reality.

Say, how's that birth certificate story working out these days?
 
2014-04-26 01:44:56 PM

jjorsett: Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"

Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.


Meanwhile in reality...
 
2014-04-26 01:45:06 PM

Smoking GNU: cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.

My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.

October of what year?


Well I assumed it was from the exchange rollout but you're right, it could be from 2009.
 
2014-04-26 01:46:50 PM

jjorsett: Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"

Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.


So why do you care? Its not like you think everyone living in the U.S. should receive health care, anyway.
 
2014-04-26 01:47:05 PM

jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.

[i62.tinypic.com image 452x390]


I think we found John Hawkins' Fark handle.
 
2014-04-26 01:47:28 PM
Liberals support cruel policies that decimate people's lives

Because raising some rich guy's income tax by one or two percent, or making them wait behind some poors in line for health care is totally "decimating" people's lives.
 
2014-04-26 01:47:33 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Smoking GNU: cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp.

Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times.

My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.

October of what year?

Well I assumed it was from the exchange rollout but you're right, it could be from 2009.


Google image search suggests Nov 1, 2013.
 
2014-04-26 01:48:20 PM
You would think given the hyperbole and general rushing to fainting couches going on in some circles, that there would be at least ONE Obamacare horror story that lasted more than 5 minutes when held to the light. It's actually unnatural how that has not happened.

I did contract work for several healthcare brokerages, and my mom was on a "Death Panel" (appeals analyst for a Blue Cross) and so I know all sorts of horror stories regarding healthcare farkups. But despite concerted effort, the people wetting their pants over the law can't come up with an actual instance of someone being screwed over by it that isn't actually about either insurance companies screwing the customer or the customer being a numbnuts.
 
2014-04-26 01:48:30 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp. Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times. My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.

Oh, it's still sinking, as Obama well knows, evidenced by his putting off virtually every one of its "deadlines" until after either the next election or when he leaves office. Furious bailing doesn't save the ship permanently, it just puts off the inevitable.

i59.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-26 01:48:39 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.


My favorite part is that some Republicans haven't realized that screaming Repeal! every chance they get is going to hurt them in the midterms.

No, wait, my favorite favorite part is that they still have no alternative to Obamacare besides vouchers and tort reform.

Kidding!  My favorite part is that Obamacare allows sick and poor people to get treatment and jj can go fark a gopher hole.
 
2014-04-26 01:51:06 PM

jjorsett: cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: Smoking GNU: Aaaargh! Dammit! Why do i click before i look? Damn townhall derp. Disagreement with the left-wing worldview, the only true heresy that exists in modern times. My favorite part of this cartoon is it's probably from October. Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it. Oh, it's still sinking, as Obama well knows, evidenced by his putting off virtually every one of its "deadlines" until after either the next election or when he leaves office. Furious bailing doesn't save the ship permanently, it just puts off the inevitable.


WTF are you on about?
 
2014-04-26 01:52:02 PM
#3 is the only one that does actually suck, but that seems to be an extreme case.

My wife has been able to keep all of her same docs, but appointments are 6-8 weeks out normally. It's taken her 6 months to get everything worked out.

Although a doctor shortage is probably to be expected when there are 9 million more people enrolling, many of whom probably haven't been to a doc in years, or ever.

So yeah, the rest of those are either failure to choose a plan that has the right coverage for their needs, or failure to enroll at all.
 
2014-04-26 01:52:33 PM

Soup4Bonnie: cameroncrazy1984: Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.

My favorite part is that some Republicans haven't realized that screaming Repeal! every chance they get is going to hurt them in the midterms.

No, wait, my favorite favorite part is that they still have no alternative to Obamacare besides vouchers and tort reform.

Kidding!  My favorite part is that Obamacare allows sick and poor people to get treatment and jj can go fark a gopher hole.


That is also my favorite part
 
2014-04-26 01:52:57 PM
#4 - Darwin wins

Sorry, but you refused to sign up for insurance and THEN DIDNT GO TO THE ER?
FARK YOU. Your death was a greater good for society.

/goddamn leeches
 
2014-04-26 01:53:27 PM

VictoryCabal: Townhall? 5 item list? Do I detect the flatulent odor of John Hawkins? Not going to bother to click the link.


As a matter of fact, if you mouse over the link the very URL will make your nose hairs curl.
 
2014-04-26 01:53:30 PM
OK, let's take these five cases at face value and give them and TH all possible benefit of the doubt.

1) A lady who bought insurance only to later find out it didn't cover her medication and can't find a doctor.  Let's look at a quote from TH's link:
Even though the Obamacare plan she purchased assured her that she was covered, her insurance card was denied when she went to fill her prescriptions.
Figueroa says she cannot find a doctor who accepts her Obamacare plan; indeed, there are only six doctors in all of Staten Island who take her plan, none of whom she's been able to get appointments with.


So the insurance company told her it would cover her prescriptions, but they lied to her.  I fail to see how an insurance company lying to a customer is a fault of Obamacare.  Regarding her second complaint, it's a combination of her insurance company not contracting with enough doctors, and the ones it does being full-up on patients.

2) A pastor whose insurance does not cover chemotherapy for esophogeal cancer because he had a pre-existing heart condition.  TH's link is returning a 503 unavailable answer so I can only respond to what it has decided to quote.

One of the provisions of Obamacare is that you could not be refused a plan because of a pre-existing condition.  Therefore, he either had a grandfathered plan which avoided that new regulation, or his insurance company is doing something shady.  Either way, it's not related to Obamacare as he never touched the PPACA or the insurance company is hoping he'll die before running up a bill.

3) An Obama backer who cannot find a doctor who is seeing new patients.

I'll repeat my reply to the troll.  If the influx of new patients due to Obamacare has overwhelmed the US's medical system, then it can only mean that before Obamacare we had way too many people who were not a part of that system.

4) Ann Coulter's sister's friends college roommate lost the insurance she had before the PPACA because BCBS stopped selling it in California.  She didn't get new insurance, got sick, didn't go the ER because she couldn't afford it, and died.

That is indeed sad.  But guess what?  Insurance companies stopped selling plans before the PPACA was passed.  They can still stop selling plans.  The PPACA mandates that individuals buy a plan or pay a penalty, it doesn't mandate that insurance companies can never, ever decide to stop doing business with you.

Additionally, there's nothing mentioned to explain why this woman who had previously been able to get insurance did not get a new plan after BCBS dropped her.  And in addition to that people dying because they don't want to run the risk of being saddled with crippling debt is one of the reasons we passed the PPACA in the first place.  It's sad that this one woman died for that reason, but there are now eight million more people who won't have to make the choice between going to the ER and risking death.  It's a net positive.

5) A guy who was previously covered under the insurance his wife had at her place of employment.  After the PPACA passed, her boss decided to cut costs and drop spouses.  They claim that getting coverage for him on the private market was too expensive.  He later got badly sick.

Like I said, we'll take these claims at face value, despite the fact that I've actually seen the claim of "we couldn't afford it" actually come true once the person making that claim released hard numbers on their circumstances.  It usually boils down to "I didn't bother to look at how much the plans would cost because I knew they'd be too much" and "I ain't taking to subsidy because I'm too proud".

But assuming they're right, then this is one guy who last his insurance because of Obamacare.  Which is weighed against the eight million who now do.  Again, a net gain.  The two people hurt by Obamacare because they lost insurance simply cannot stack up against the eight million who now have it.

So, in closing, the claims boil down to the following:
1) The insurance company lied to me!  This never happened before Obamacare!
2) I'm upset that people who previously could not see a doctor are now making me wait longer.  Why won't these poor people just realize that health care is a privilege meant for their betters?
3) We shouldn't allow eight million people to now get access to non-bankrupting health care if it means that two people might not!
 
2014-04-26 01:54:05 PM
Does anybody know if the ACA had verbiage about client notification of what docs/clinics/hospitals are in vs out of network on individual marketplace plans?

We've had a truly ass-tastic experience with Blue Shield of California this year. The asswipe agent on the phone when my boyfriend was re-upping for 2014 straight up told him that his oncologist and hospital were in-network for the plan he got.

Three months and ~$250,000 of chemo treatments later BlueShield decides that nope, never was in network, here's a bill for more than you make in five years. Absolute dicks. When called on their assholish activities through filing a grievance, like magic, they paid. They were just fishing for folks who might be too scared or ignorant to file.

What assholes. Hopefully Cigna will be marginally less evil.

/single payer can't come fast enough.
 
2014-04-26 01:55:17 PM

Soup4Bonnie: cameroncrazy1984: Here we are in April and that ship just hasn't gone down like you hoped it would, did it.

My favorite part is that some Republicans haven't realized that screaming Repeal! every chance they get is going to hurt them in the midterms.

No, wait, my favorite favorite part is that they still have no alternative to Obamacare besides vouchers and tort reform.

Kidding!  My favorite part is that Obamacare allows sick and poor people to get treatment and jj can go fark a gopher hole.


Go a step further.
They are setting up the PERFECT ATTACKS against repeal and their "new plan"
1) your rates can never go up
2) you never have to change doctors
3) you can never be dropped or denied for pre-existing conditions
4) birth control is covered
5) etc etc etc
 
2014-04-26 01:56:33 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: The Bestest: jjorsett: Actual reality: Obamacare rule, Obamacare rule, Obamacare-caused scarcity, ditto, Obamacare-induced price increase.

..so what you're saying is we should have had single-payer?

Exactly. Or stated another way: "We royally screwed this up, DOUBLE DOWN!"

And yet, you can't find one single screwup.


Well, I did have trouble with the website for a day so we should definitely scrap the whole thing.
 
2014-04-26 01:57:47 PM
Perfect is the enemy of good.
 
2014-04-26 01:58:59 PM

jjorsett: Karac: jjorsett: Obamacare-caused scarcity,

If Obamacare changed things so that we have too many people who can now afford to go to the doctor that we don't have enough doctors to go around, then it stands to reason that before Obamacare we had hordes of people who were never able to get medical care.

Basically your biatching sums up to "Oh nos!  Other people can finally get treatment!"

Did we even read the same article? Obamacare is effectively resulting in rationing thru scarcity. Yay: you get a healthcare network. Boo: there are so few doctors in it to handle the workload that you're not going to get an appointment for months, even assuming you find a doctor who's taking new patients. You still get no treatment, just for different reasons. Whoopty frickin' do.


Obamacare is not rationing.  Go and find me the clause in the law that says "We're only going to let x number of people see a doctor each day."

Doctor's are not accepting new patients because their time is already full of existing patients.

Even if you're claim is correct, then we've merely switch from rationing based upon the size of your paycheck to rationing based upon the number of doctors.  Not having enough doctors could be fixed by putting more through medical school, whereas I don't believe anyone in the history of the world has found a solution for some people being poorer than others.
 
2014-04-26 02:00:13 PM

Karac: Additionally, there's nothing mentioned to explain why this woman who had previously been able to get insurance did not get a new plan after BCBS dropped her


She lost her insurance, which must have cost her money.
She didnt get new insurance.
She didnt go to the ER.

Can we just assume that she is a moron and the world is better off without her in it?
Harsh, but true.
Darwin is the law.
 
2014-04-26 02:01:08 PM

Karac: 2) A pastor whose insurance does not cover chemotherapy for esophogeal cancer because he had a pre-existing heart condition. TH's link is returning a 503 unavailable answer so I can only respond to what it has decided to quote.

One of the provisions of Obamacare is that you could not be refused a plan because of a pre-existing condition. Therefore, he either had a grandfathered plan which avoided that new regulation, or his insurance company is doing something shady. Either way, it's not related to Obamacare as he never touched the PPACA or the insurance company is hoping he'll die before running up a bill.


Of note:  the ACA funded something called the PCIP as an instant relief mechanism for people with pre-existing conditions that had not been able to get insurance in the past 6 months.  You did not have to wait until the exchanges were set up.  I know this because my wife's friend with a brain tumor, was finally able to get some treatment before she died.  This law has already helped millions of people.
 
2014-04-26 02:01:25 PM
All of these problems are things that happened before ACA too. When I was in college and on my dads insurance 10 years ago I was unable to see a doctor because I was out of network.  Several of the problems from the people in the article could have been prevented if they chose insurance based on which doctors are in network. I don't like the idea of in network vs out of network but it is disingenuous to say that it is the fault of "Obamacare". That is 1 & 3 from the article.

4 & 5 are people who had no insurance at all and blame Obamacare.  Several employers, including my brother's blamed "Obamacare" on price increases but when you look at it more closely the company actually is paying fewer dollars this year than last year.

2 in the article makes no sense at all. It is not possible to owe that much to insurance since the maximum yearly deductible is $12700.

The affordable care act is far from perfect.  Premiums are very high and so are deductibles. But co-pays are much lower (usually free) and the max deductible puts an upper limit on how much things cost.  When paired with a health savings account it makes sense for most people to go with the cheapest coverage that includes your doctor.  The best way to fix all of the problems with ACA would be for everyone to work together, but I can't see that happening.
 
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