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(Orlando Sentinel)   Judge criticized for handing out Bibles to defendants to try and get them to turn over a new leaf, eroding the entire judicial process and potentially prejudicing himself to prosecutors   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 99
    More: Florida, Mathew Staver, prosecutors, Courts of the United States, paperwork, Chief Judge, no pressure, criminal justice, Osceola County  
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2814 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2014 at 12:17 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-26 11:39:38 AM
Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.
 
2014-04-26 11:45:31 AM

King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.


I guess I don't see the difference.
 
2014-04-26 12:08:41 PM
New Testament Gideon Bibles

That's those crappy pocket-sized "Bibles" that only have the King James translation of the New Testament and Psalms, right?  That's lame, judge.
 
2014-04-26 12:19:07 PM
He should also hand out strait razors to the defendants who think they have worms crawling on them.
 
2014-04-26 12:20:20 PM
Defendant: "God commanded me to do it."

Judge: " Not guilty!"


i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-26 12:20:44 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


SHEESH! One is white, and one is brown.  DUH!
 
2014-04-26 12:22:02 PM
Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of the Liberty Counsel -

"It doesn't appear that the judge was promoting one religion or making any suggestion that he is supporting or endorsing" one religion, Staver said.

BULL farkING shiat
 
2014-04-26 12:22:20 PM
"So according to this book, I should be smiting my enemy with the edge of my sword.  Anyone got a sword I can borrow?"
 
2014-04-26 12:22:21 PM
After all, despite its huge sales, the book only has 57 reviews on Amazon, which could indicate that people are buying it, but potentially either not cracking the cover or finishing it.

Or he nailed it and there's nothing left to say.

I read it.

I laughed.

I cried.

It became a part of me.
 
2014-04-26 12:23:35 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


There isn't.  Both give the appearance of endorsement.
 
2014-04-26 12:24:10 PM
Am I doing something wrong when I click the link? All I get is a 'sign in or subscribe' bit and when I click the 'no' button it takes me to the Orlando Sentinel homepage.
 
2014-04-26 12:25:47 PM

wambu: After all, despite its huge sales, the book only has 57 reviews on Amazon, which could indicate that people are buying it, but potentially either not cracking the cover or finishing it.

Or he nailed it and there's nothing left to say.

I read it.

I laughed.

I cried.

It became a part of me.


57 reviews of the bible?  Christians be slacking.

/i know, wrong thread. :)
 
2014-04-26 12:26:05 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


That's the response that should be given in any circumstance regarding government religious promotion in our country, unfortunately certain groups rather have it that their religion be promoted and other religions be ignored or condemned. Separation of Church and State isn't just an idea, it's part of our law system and no matter what beliefs you have, your pastor/priest/imam/rabbi/guru/whatever should not be involved in promoting and pushing their beliefs through you (meaning this judge, or a teacher, or some other job) as a government agent upon people who have differing religious and/or secular viewpoints.
 
2014-04-26 12:30:00 PM
To be fair, the Bible can be a pretty decent moral guide.

If you filter out/adapt the cultural differences to the modern day, really only focus on a small portion of the Bible, and ignore a large portion of the actions done/views held today which people claim are in accordance with the Bible.

That's probably a tall task for a criminal defendant.

Oh and handing out Bibles to defendants as a judge is highly unconstitutional.
 
2014-04-26 12:31:49 PM
Yeah. Hand out a book that says it is "OK" to have your wife "stoned to death" if she can't prove she's a virgin on your wedding night. Sounds like justice to me.

Bible is just overflowing with justice from a loving God.

God sends bears to mutilate children for laughing at a bald guy. God tells some dude to murder his own son......etc....etc....
 
2014-04-26 12:33:47 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


Me either.
 
2014-04-26 12:37:30 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.

Me either.


No difference, both are unconstitutional and unethical behaviors by the judge. I hope he ponders this on the tree of woe.
 
2014-04-26 12:38:44 PM
This is more like the equivalent to tipping that fake money with the bible message on the back.  Not a big deal, just douchey.
 
2014-04-26 12:38:48 PM
Yesterday, a friend of a friend posted this handy illustration on Facebook - with the predictable hysterical rant included:

i.imgur.com

Today, she posted a link to this very article and decried how good Christians were being oppressed.

I swear, I'm so farking over the far right and their religious hatreds.
 
2014-04-26 12:40:50 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


Ok, let's try this. Suppose I was a judge and you a defendant in my court. Prior to any verdict you are picking up your court papers and I invite you to also pick up one of a crateful of books I have on believing in Creationism.

Now if you're naive, you smile back and say "no thanks." If you're more worldly, you recognize that your verdict and sentencing may be influenced by your at least appearing-- or failing to appear-- to be genuinely interested in educating yourself about the Truth of Creationism. And, if you're like most people and are somewhere in between naive and worldly, you have an uneasy sense that it might be good to take this book even though you're really not interested and maybe you should read it in case the judge quizzes you and what if you don't come across as sincere in your answers-- are you going to go to jail because you aren't a Creationist?

At the very least it's inappropriate to mix State and Church (any church, including temple, mosque, coven, or FSM, uh, kitchen). At worst, it is chillingly implying thar one religious group gets separate justice from all others-- and you'd better be of the "in group"... or else.

/this explanation does not contain or express stated or implied positions one way or the other on any religious topic or belief including but not limited to: churches, Christianity, Judaism,Islam, wicca, or FSM.
//Actually, strike that last one since FSM is just silly hipster mockery.
 
2014-04-26 12:41:11 PM

King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.


Done in one.
 
2014-04-26 12:41:14 PM

phenn: Yesterday, a friend of a friend posted this handy illustration on Facebook - with the predictable hysterical rant included:

[i.imgur.com image 500x320]

Today, she posted a link to this very article and decried how good Christians were being oppressed.

I swear, I'm so farking over the far right and their religious hatreds.


Hurrah! Another map showing X which is basically a population density map.
 
2014-04-26 12:42:30 PM

King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.


I'm a bit miffed that judges insist on forcing people to attend NA and AA meetings, or that they award fines to be paid directly into MADD.

/Why does a person convicted of pot possession have to pay a "victim fee"?
 
2014-04-26 12:42:38 PM
Hand out 1984 or Clockwork Orange instead.
 
2014-04-26 12:43:23 PM
The Judge is a hero in my book.  The intended result for passing out Bibbles is not to promote Christianity.  That is merely a façade.  You see, the book in question has pages made from rice paper.  Rice paper makes great rolling papers for cigarettes and whatever else someone wishes to smoke up.  Jails do not allow smoking.  The judge is understanding that these individuals soon to be incarcerated are going to have a difficult going cold turkey and so is helping them with a wee bit of contraband until they can get themselves settled in.  The tobacco and anything else is on the onus (and possibly in the anus) of the defendant.
 
2014-04-26 12:44:52 PM

LesserEvil: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I'm a bit miffed that judges insist on forcing people to attend NA and AA meetings, or that they award fines to be paid directly into MADD.

/Why does a person convicted of pot possession have to pay a "victim fee"?


Hey now, just because you end every meeting with an Our Father doesn't mean it's a religious group.
 
2014-04-26 12:46:31 PM
Can't we just make this sort of thing an impeachable offense and be done with it?  Christ, what an asshole.
 
2014-04-26 12:46:39 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Am I doing something wrong when I click the link? All I get is a 'sign in or subscribe' bit and when I click the 'no' button it takes me to the Orlando Sentinel homepage.


Yes, you're not using an ad blocker.

Unless you're on mobile in which case I can't help ya, I had the same problem on my old phone. Every paper that used the template the Orlando Sentinel does would send me to the paper's homepage. Which turns out to be a lot of papers that I assume use the same template because they all have the same parent company. Which in turn was a frightening illustration of how the free press is actually owned en masse by a handful of companies.
 
2014-04-26 12:47:16 PM

Mister Buttons: wambu: After all, despite its huge sales, the book only has 57 reviews on Amazon, which could indicate that people are buying it, but potentially either not cracking the cover or finishing it.

Or he nailed it and there's nothing left to say.

I read it.

I laughed.

I cried.

It became a part of me.

57 reviews of the bible?  Christians be slacking.

/i know, wrong thread. :)


Yet strangely appropriate.
 
2014-04-26 12:47:46 PM
I should also add... if you've never sat in on a local court case, do so. If you have any common sense, you will quickly get angry and form a fairly strong opinion about the way the law prosecutes many of its cases. I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink... but I remember a time when my Dad and uncles often had a can of beer in a styrofoam cooler, hanging off the door in one of those holders - they weren't driving impaired and were never a danger to anybody.

In our state, if a cop catches you with a stem while you are in the park, it's a possession charge, and MANDATORY 6 month license suspension... like, WTF? I could see a $150 ticket, paid like a speeding fine, maybe even a point system, but what does possessing pot while outside have to do with driving? That's why I suspect legalization will be seen in almost every state before 2020.
 
2014-04-26 12:47:59 PM
If the Judge really wanted to punish these offenders, he should have made them read "Crime and Punishment"
 
2014-04-26 12:53:19 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.

Me either.


Fer crying our loud

He's talking to/about Farkers who think Christianity is Religion This Nation Was Founded Upon and thus what the judge was doing is Just Fine.

Try to keep up.
 
2014-04-26 12:53:39 PM

LesserEvil: I should also add... if you've never sat in on a local court case, do so. If you have any common sense, you will quickly get angry and form a fairly strong opinion about the way the law prosecutes many of its cases. I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink... but I remember a time when my Dad and uncles often had a can of beer in a styrofoam cooler, hanging off the door in one of those holders - they weren't driving impaired and were never a danger to anybody.

In our state, if a cop catches you with a stem while you are in the park, it's a possession charge, and MANDATORY 6 month license suspension... like, WTF? I could see a $150 ticket, paid like a speeding fine, maybe even a point system, but what does possessing pot while outside have to do with driving? That's why I suspect legalization will be seen in almost every state before 2020.


Jury nullification. Learn it. Love it. Live it.  ;-)
 
2014-04-26 12:58:43 PM

phenn: LesserEvil: I should also add... if you've never sat in on a local court case, do so. If you have any common sense, you will quickly get angry and form a fairly strong opinion about the way the law prosecutes many of its cases. I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink... but I remember a time when my Dad and uncles often had a can of beer in a styrofoam cooler, hanging off the door in one of those holders - they weren't driving impaired and were never a danger to anybody.

In our state, if a cop catches you with a stem while you are in the park, it's a possession charge, and MANDATORY 6 month license suspension... like, WTF? I could see a $150 ticket, paid like a speeding fine, maybe even a point system, but what does possessing pot while outside have to do with driving? That's why I suspect legalization will be seen in almost every state before 2020.

Jury nullification. Learn it. Love it. Live it.  ;-)


Mentioning jury nullification is a great way to get out of jury duty.
 
2014-04-26 01:01:43 PM

AliceBToklasLives: New Testament Gideon Bibles

That's those crappy pocket-sized "Bibles" that only have the King James translation of the New Testament and Psalms, right?  That's lame, judge.


I think that is maybe the only slightly redeeming part of this whole story.  New Testament has much less the God who orders stonings and smitings, and much more the God of grace, redemption, and second chances.  If you are going to be forcing/encouraging/evangelizing/whatever, please at least emphasize forgiveness.

If this judge wants to hand out Bibles, or even just have a box of them for others to take as desired, he needs to not be working for government.
 
2014-04-26 01:06:21 PM
Perhaps Not Breaking the Law for Dummies would have been more appropriate. This guy should know better, but it's not like he's forcing them to read it and quizzing them afterwards. The New Testament is probably a better moral guide than turning the defendants loose in a law library to pore over the penal code. 

I notice that most people who hate on the Bible concentrate on the Old Testament. You probably don't care, but the New Testament supersedes the Old, and the words and actions of "liberal hippie" Jesus are the foundation for most of Christianity. I know I'm sticking my dick in a hornet nest by posting this in what is sure to be another spectacular Christian-bashing Fark thread, but meh. 

/Do they still make you swear on a Bible when they put you under oath?
 
2014-04-26 01:09:01 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


How about Dianetics?
 
2014-04-26 01:10:33 PM
Judge shouldn't have done that. He forgot the 11th commandment: "keep thy religion to thyself." In my opinion, people in power, such as judges, presidents, members of congress etc., should be non religious as a prerequisite. That would prevent all sorts of religious bias in the legal system and government, as well as make everyone happy due to lack of favoritism towards a particular religion. Religious people in these positions always, even at a subtle subconscious level, use their religious beliefs to influence decision making. And their religious thinking tends to take the place of logic and common sense in most situations.
 
2014-04-26 01:13:50 PM

ElLoco: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I guess I don't see the difference.


Me too, can someone expand on why I should be outraged?
 
2014-04-26 01:14:36 PM

Back Alley Proctologist: Perhaps Not Breaking the Law for Dummies would have been more appropriate. This guy should know better, but it's not like he's forcing them to read it and quizzing them afterwards. The New Testament is probably a better moral guide than turning the defendants loose in a law library to pore over the penal code. 

I notice that most people who hate on the Bible concentrate on the Old Testament. You probably don't care, but the New Testament supersedes the Old, and the words and actions of "liberal hippie" Jesus are the foundation for most of Christianity. I know I'm sticking my dick in a hornet nest by posting this in what is sure to be another spectacular Christian-bashing Fark thread, but meh. 

/Do they still make you swear on a Bible when they put you under oath?


Problem is when a guy with the final authority to throw your ass in jail or levy fines against you offers something, it means something different than when so guy on the street does it.
 
2014-04-26 01:17:33 PM
Fill in the blank!

When you believe that a magic invisible man is telling you what to do, and that those instructions are, by definition, moral, you are a....
 
2014-04-26 01:18:44 PM

Back Alley Proctologist: /Do they still make you swear on a Bible when they put you under oath?


In my experience, no. They just make you raise your right hand.
 
2014-04-26 01:19:46 PM

Bungles: phenn: Yesterday, a friend of a friend posted this handy illustration on Facebook - with the predictable hysterical rant included:

[i.imgur.com image 500x320]

Today, she posted a link to this very article and decried how good Christians were being oppressed.

I swear, I'm so farking over the far right and their religious hatreds.

Hurrah! Another map showing X which is basically a population density map.


And the number of mosques is still low, shading notwithstanding. Colorado has 5 million people and 10-24 mosques.

Meanwhile I can pass 10-24 churches in a short bike ride.
 
2014-04-26 01:23:40 PM
www.dumb.com

/oblig
 
2014-04-26 01:27:01 PM
At least picking up a Bible ( as a defendant) is optional for now. I'd hate to see what would happen if the "Christian" Dominionists get some REAL power....

/ maybe a  jizya-like tax levied on us non-Christians ( or even non-Evangelical Christians) for starters...
 
2014-04-26 01:41:23 PM

LesserEvil: King Something: Since somebody (either a poster or a lurker) will eventually ask what the big deal is, I'd like you to imagine an identical scenario except that the judge is handing Qurans to the defendants instead of Bibles.

I'm a bit miffed that judges insist on forcing people to attend NA and AA meetings, or that they award fines to be paid directly into MADD.

/Why does a person convicted of pot possession have to pay a "victim fee"?


Because it makes people feel better without actually doing anything. That's what justice in America is all about.
 
2014-04-26 01:43:10 PM
I'm not opposed to handing out religious texts in county/city jails and juvenile lockups though. Besides translations of the Quran and the Bible (including a so-called Old Testament that Jews use, if they don't want the New Testament included), Buddhist sutras, the Bhagavad Gita, Talmudic texts and commentaries like these and the Shulchan Aruch, etc. etc. etc.

And lets not forget secular doctrinal documents like the Communist Manifesto, the Portable Nietzsche, whatever. Any system of thought or belief that wants to donate copies of its texts, or that the county or any private group or person in it can find to distribute. The Hare Krishnas used to hand out copies of their version of the Gita for whatever change you had in your pocket for example.

And dictionaries, remedial reading and math texts, reference guides, books on basic logic, classic of literature... There are scads of cheap used paperbacks out there or Gutenberg texts that can be printed. Give them out, sell them for a nickel, have donation bins in the county courthouse or office building and circulate them from a jail library, summon the public library book mobile, let prisoners buy them from the commissary, whatever.

The idea is that while people are locked up they should be given a chance to educate themselves and evaluate their lives that might lead them to make better choices. Obviously there'd be common-sense limits ruling out crap like "How To Make a Shank," but that stuff only rules out a small fraction of what's available.

Or you could just warehouse them and bore them silly, giving them nothing to do but watch TV, abuse one another, and learn new criminal techniques.
 
2014-04-26 01:44:56 PM

brimed03: Which in turn was a frightening illustration of how the free press is actually owned en masse by a handful of companies.


There are other sources of information, but they can be hard to find unless you're looking.
 
2014-04-26 01:46:52 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: At least picking up a Bible ( as a defendant) is optional for now.


Not really... if a judge that is going to judge you puts out a stack of bibles and offers one to you, you had better pick it up or you're not going to be judged fairly. Unless you say, "No thanks, I brought mine with me", you're pretty much screwed.

Granted... bibles aren't being offered in HIS court anymore, but if you ever run into that situation, just fake it and thank him/her for your own sake. Religious people tend to be vicious towards anyone who rejects one of their unwanted advances.
 
2014-04-26 01:47:25 PM

nowaymanblue: To be fair, the Bible can be a pretty decent moral guide.

If you filter out/adapt the cultural differences to the modern day, really only focus on a small portion of the Bible, and ignore a large portion of the actions done/views held today which people claim are in accordance with the Bible.


In order to do so, you would have to already have a moral standard better than the bible that you could use to judge the bible.

In which, case, why bother?
 
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