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(11 Alive)   The City of Buford, Georgia loves veterans. They love them so much that they're about to declare eminent domain on a 33 acre American Legion Post that has been there for decades   (11alive.com) divider line 63
    More: Asinine, American Legion Post, American Legion, Buford  
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4897 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2014 at 2:18 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-25 08:27:01 PM  
I just sent American Legion Post 127 an email asking how this fellow American Legion member can help in their fight against Eminent Domain .
 
2014-04-25 08:41:10 PM  
At least they're taking it for something of decent importance instead of giving it to a business
 
2014-04-25 09:09:00 PM  

ArkAngel: At least they're taking it for something of decent importance instead of giving it to a business


This is true and I understand that. Maybe they can leave the Legion building and historical artifacts there and make it part of history classes as well as having historical discussions with Legion members.   I would like it to be the real history of the United States with all of the warts. No sugar coating.  Guess this supposed realist is sometimes an idealist.
 
2014-04-25 09:37:54 PM  
Yeah, there aint no way the city will use it

Its political suicide
 
2014-04-25 10:03:11 PM  
They'll just blame Obama somehow. The rubes will eat it up.
"Remember when Eric Holder came down here and shut down these true American Patriots because of Obamacare!!??"
 
2014-04-25 10:20:18 PM  
Its just a bar.
 
2014-04-26 12:26:30 AM  

cman: Yeah, there aint no way the city will use it

Its political suicide


It could just be a negotiating tactic.  The Legion wants the city to pay the crazy 2006 property value, the city is probably trying to lowball them with their offer.  They'll come together on a number that both can agree with.
 
2014-04-26 01:00:27 AM  
But Zavitz says they didn't know about the district's official plans until the school board held a special meeting on Veteran's Day, voting to condemn the property.

Nice timing.
 
2014-04-26 02:29:46 AM  

fusillade762: But Zavitz says they didn't know about the district's official plans until the school board held a special meeting on Veteran's Day, voting to condemn the property.

Nice timing.


They probably thought it would stop any pesky veterans from showing up.
 
2014-04-26 02:41:43 AM  
Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.
 
2014-04-26 02:55:37 AM  
Maybe they can just storm an IWW office and move in there?

Maybe bust up some union strikes and beat down folks trying to push for decent wages or something, while they're at it.
 
2014-04-26 02:57:11 AM  
http://goo.gl/maps/6k39t

33 acres is a damn big area, out of which the American Legion building appears to be sitting on a mere fraction of. I assume the city is after the vacant area sitting right behind the existing schools.
 
2014-04-26 03:00:36 AM  
It's a red state, the Tea Party will ignore this.
 
2014-04-26 03:13:06 AM  
Where's the Buford justice?

/Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mama in the mouth.
 
2014-04-26 03:14:38 AM  

Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.


This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.
 
2014-04-26 03:43:43 AM  

Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.


It can always be challenged in court, which gives anyone an opportunity to demand a fair price. The mere threat of a challenge and the costs associated can loosen the purse strings of the government some.

Then again, like FSBO movement has proven, most people have an inflated idea of the worth of their property anyway. Proposing a value from the absolute peak of the housing bubble as being reasonable today is a perfect example.
 
2014-04-26 03:50:49 AM  

Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.


When it comes to eminent domain, don't take the first offer. You take the second offer. After that, they give you the first offer again but dress it up as a third offer. After that, they'll just give you the first offer whether you want it or not.

Also, as someone said already... it's just a bar. The owner can use the money and set up shop elsewhere (if they take the second offer), and probably have some money left over. Eminent domain sucks, but thems the breaks.
 
2014-04-26 04:00:25 AM  

Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.


Perhaps I'm being extremely naïve here, but shouldn't property tax assessments be the base for compensation on eminent domain seizures? The government should, in theory, already have a pretty good idea of a property's value.
 
2014-04-26 04:01:53 AM  
Eminent Domain was supposed to be last resort.  When no other piece of property would suit the needs, and the reason was for the public good, e.g. the road needs to go through that spot because going around would not make engineering sense.  Grabbing land for a park (or baseball field) doesn't make sense if there's perfectly good land available.

Now days it seems eminent domain is used because, fark you, we can.

But then, abuse of eminent domain did happen in the long past.  The railroads benefited greatly from it.
 
2014-04-26 04:04:15 AM  
The fact that they are considering taking it is a travesty. Not sure what exactly "eminent domain" is but it sounds farked up. These veterans choose not to sell their land and property, they raise funds for the children, and allow use of their grounds for kids sports and whatnot. A very generous organization of veterans is pretty much getting farked by having their property taken against their will and for damn near pennies on the dollar for what it's worth. As a veteran myself, who has volunteered at several American legions and VFW posts, this is disgusting.
 
2014-04-26 04:34:54 AM  

bVork: Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.

Perhaps I'm being extremely naïve here, but shouldn't property tax assessments be the base for compensation on eminent domain seizures? The government should, in theory, already have a pretty good idea of a property's value.


VFW knows they were dealt a good hand. Its a Veterans organization, which means that politics is going to be a bit cautious. VFW will sell; they are just holding out for more cash.
 
2014-04-26 04:40:07 AM  
they served their  purpose
now what do they expect

(yes trolling but there is an element of truth there)
(refer to the condition of the VA hospitals for more)
 
2014-04-26 05:47:49 AM  

Dirty J1: The fact that they are considering taking it is a travesty. Not sure what exactly "eminent domain" is but it sounds farked up. These veterans choose not to sell their land and property, they raise funds for the children, and allow use of their grounds for kids sports and whatnot. A very generous organization of veterans is pretty much getting farked by having their property taken against their will and for damn near pennies on the dollar for what it's worth. As a veteran myself, who has volunteered at several American legions and VFW posts, this is disgusting.


Eminent domain is a legitimate thing, that has good reason to exist, and has been part of our law since day one.
That having been said, we should never get "comfortable" with it, and it should only be invoked as a tool of last resort - and in recent years, we have become far too free in it's use. In this case, at least they want to use it for something that is in the public interest, but it still needs to transpire, if it transpires, under the strictest scrutiny.
Let's not drama-queen too much, though, OK? This is a f**king Legion hall.
I have spent many hours in them.
They are dank, depressing bars, full of dank, depressing old drunks lying about wars they never fought in.
Pretending they make some great contribution to society is just dildoes.
 
2014-04-26 06:01:38 AM  
Send in the militia.
 
2014-04-26 06:03:42 AM  

ArkAngel: At least they're taking it for something of decent importance instead of giving it to a business


This.  I don't have a problem with the correct use of eminent domain as opposed to the Kelo v. New London that big government liberals are so fond of.

Of course there is the problem of the Legion getting fair price for its land that seems to be the real sticking point.
 
2014-04-26 06:21:03 AM  
Auto-play video makes baby Jesus cry.
 
2014-04-26 06:56:27 AM  

Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.


In element domain cases, my strategy would be to ask what they would sell the property for and then raise their real estate taxes to that amount. That doesn't work if they are tax exempt.
 
2014-04-26 07:14:50 AM  

jso2897: This is a f**king Legion hall.


No, it's not.  It's land owned by one.  It's commonly used for outdoor events and such.

This is a case of the VFW owning a pretty section of land(well maintained, grassy, trees), and the "city" just taking what it wants regardless of property owners.

/try actually watching the video, schmuck

Yeah, they want it for a school.  They want to appropriate a lovely section of land for it because it would be pretty there.

Let's not mistake it for noble because someone's thinking of the children.  It's a town of under 13,000 people, consists of 17 square miles, and it does not even have a major hospital. Don't let that mislead you, they are not a town out in the boondocks, they are a suburb of Atlanta.  The "nearest hospital" is a whopping 9 miles away in another "city".  They are desiring to utilize education as sort of an industry, serving areas outside of the city limits(ie other "cities" that border their own.

It's very much business and economy, and they're trying to bolster theirs by usurping privately owned land.  Their school systems are already excellent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buford_High_School

Here's a website with a lot of pictorial information about what kind of ameneties the high school has as of right now.
http://bwolvesfootball.teamsitesnow.com/43417/buford-high-school/foo tb all/information/custompages/695

A few choice pictures from here or other websites:
s3.amazonaws.com
s3.amazonaws.com

The high school has a riflery team replete with matching uniforms.
http://bwolvesriflery.teamsitesnow.com/43417/buford-high-school/rifl er y
(images too large)


The school was recently ranked 15th in the state and 775th in the nation.  They're not exactly what you call "in need" or hurting in any way shape or form.
 
2014-04-26 07:32:38 AM  

omeganuepsilon: They're not exactly what you call "in need"


^^^ THIS
 
2014-04-26 07:53:09 AM  

Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.


Forsyth Tech in NC, the main campus, that was built on a dump not eminent domain. It is still a dump( well underneath it.) That's why the Nat'l Guard armory next to it blew up, because of methane decomposition. The whole area was built on way earlier than Forsyth Tech.
 
2014-04-26 08:11:34 AM  
Eminent domain is  never supposed to be a happy, cheerful affair. If you were willing to sell your land in the first place, you'd have done it already. (And if people do come out of eminent domain all smiles, someone was probably getting kickbacks.)

On the other hand, considering the exploitative nonsense that's come out since  Kelo vs. New London, this doesn't seem so bad. I don't begrudge the American Legion their chance to work the press and get a fair price, but I'm guessing that if you stack all the charity work they do up against the good that a new school will do, it's not going to be a very close thing. That's no offense to the Legion members, but it's exactly why eminent domain exists in the first place: to prevent a smaller benefit to a community from getting in the way of a much larger benefit.
 
2014-04-26 08:17:33 AM  

Dirty J1: Not sure what exactly "eminent domain" is but it sounds farked up.


It's part of the common law (you know, juries and contracts and such), recognized and limited by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution that American Legion members once took an oath to uphold.

Which is not to say they shouldn't fight it in court or get their due at the negotiating table. Just that if you're not clear on the concept and Google isn't working for you, ask a Legionnaire.
 
2014-04-26 08:29:53 AM  

semiotix: Dirty J1: Not sure what exactly "eminent domain" is but it sounds farked up.

It's part of the common law (you know, juries and contracts and such), recognized and limited by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution that American Legion members once took an oath to uphold.

Which is not to say they shouldn't fight it in court or get their due at the negotiating table. Just that if you're not clear on the concept and Google isn't working for you, ask a Legionnaire.


I just think anyone or any group taken advantage of by eminent domain should get twice the actual appraised property value. I mean yea sure you can get a nice place of equal value, but what about moving costs, missed work, emotional ties to the place, things like that add up in my eyes. If that place is worth the 4 million still, I think they need to pay a convenience fee of another 4 million on top. That is, the convenience of just kicking someone out of their place for "public good" without them having a say in the matter. I see how this eminent domain thing works, and know that it's for common good in some cases, but it should not come cheap. Pay the folks more than property value to sweeten the pot and cover the massive inconvenience.
 
2014-04-26 08:30:00 AM  

HighlanderRPI: omeganuepsilon: They're not exactly what you call "in need"

^^^ THIS


And it's not even like I'm from there.  I opened the wiki for the town, and it looked affluent, doing very well for so small of a town, so I looked at the school's own website.

It's pretty obviously a case of the affluent seizing from the less well off when they cannot buy their way into what they want to anyone with 5 minutes and the ability to search google.

A common problem in smaller towns all over the US, the sentiment of entitlement at any rate.
 
2014-04-26 08:44:40 AM  

Chagrin: http://goo.gl/maps/6k39t

33 acres is a damn big area, out of which the American Legion building appears to be sitting on a mere fraction of. I assume the city is after the vacant area sitting right behind the existing schools.


Nope, the city is looking to grab all of the land.  Their current land usage plan has the area marked for park/rec/consv yet it's no secret they want to build a new high school there.  The city leases the ball fields from 127 but made the announcement they would not be renewing the lease for next year at the same time they said "Hey, you got some mighty fine looking land there."

The 1.8MM offer is a joke.  That works out to 50something an acre and if you check other land for sale in the area it goes for at least $20k more per acre.

/Member of 127
 
2014-04-26 09:03:01 AM  
I used to live in Buford, and this odes not surprise me in the least.  The football team probably needs a new Masterbatorium.
 
2014-04-26 09:07:29 AM  
So where are all the squatter-defending Farkers from yesterday who were saying "possession is 9/10ths of the law?" The possess this land, so...
 
2014-04-26 09:08:13 AM  
The veterans, rather ^
 
2014-04-26 09:08:31 AM  

Weatherkiss: Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.

When it comes to eminent domain, don't take the first offer. You take the second offer. After that, they give you the first offer again but dress it up as a third offer. After that, they'll just give you the first offer whether you want it or not.

Also, as someone said already... it's just a bar. The owner can use the money and set up shop elsewhere (if they take the second offer), and probably have some money left over. Eminent domain sucks, but thems the breaks.


It's not just a bar. There's a meeting hall upstairs, a big pavillion out back, and other buildings.

This "just a bar" raises a ton of money for local charities.

At Christmas we hold an event that gives toys out to poor families, all donated by members. Last Sunday we had the annual Easter Egg hunt with plastic eggs with money in them, again all donated by members. We hold auctions of donated items to raise money for Gentle Interventions, an organization that provides money to families with sick children so the families can get to and stay near the special hospitals the kid need. A plate of brownies often goes for $400 at these auctions because we know the money is sorely needed.

Those are just a few examples and I can go on for hours.

Is that what bars are like where you live?
 
2014-04-26 09:11:17 AM  
Here's the strategy:

1. Reject city's offer; make them condemn the land.

2. Generate public sympathy: "We love children mothers puppies kittens FARK veterans!"

3. Go to court over condemnation.

4. Sympathetic jury awards $$$$.

5. Build opulent American Legion hall someplace else.
 
2014-04-26 09:15:38 AM  
I'm just parroting what I've read about this issue. but in reality, the Federal Gov. owns every single square inch of this country. you "buy" land. when you pay it off. you continue to lease it through taxes from the government (all of them), you get to stay there till you stop paying your lease or sell it to someone else and they start the cycle all over again. or in this case, they want their land back for one thing or another, then they just take it back. maybe you'll get what you consider a fair settlement, or not. either way it's gone.
 
2014-04-26 09:20:16 AM  

omeganuepsilon: This is a case of the VFW owning a pretty section of land(well maintained, grassy, trees), and the "city" just taking what it wants regardless of property owners.


The American Legion and the VFW are two completely different organizations.
 
2014-04-26 10:30:26 AM  

Dirty J1: The fact that they are considering taking it is a travesty. Not sure what exactly "eminent domain" is but it sounds farked up. These veterans choose not to sell their land and property, they raise funds for the children, and allow use of their grounds for kids sports and whatnot. A very generous organization of veterans is pretty much getting farked by having their property taken against their will and for damn near pennies on the dollar for what it's worth. As a veteran myself, who has volunteered at several American legions and VFW posts, this is disgusting.


This is some piss poor trolling. How can you possibly be a veteran who "served" at VFW and American Legions and not know what the fark eminent domain is?
 
2014-04-26 10:47:24 AM  

bVork: Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.

Perhaps I'm being extremely naïve here, but shouldn't property tax assessments be the base for compensation on eminent domain seizures? The government should, in theory, already have a pretty good idea of a property's value.


Heck, it should be property tax valuation plus some percentage (say 50%) as a fee on the government for forcing someone to do something they don't wish to do. The government shouldn't be using the power so often that it's actually a burden on the people.
 
2014-04-26 10:53:57 AM  

leevis: omeganuepsilon: This is a case of the VFW owning a pretty section of land(well maintained, grassy, trees), and the "city" just taking what it wants regardless of property owners.

The American Legion and the VFW are two completely different organizations.



wpcontent.answcdn.com
American Legion allows all veterans to be members.
 
2014-04-26 11:00:03 AM  
33 acres in Georgia could probably support a decent herd of cattle. Call Clive Bundy, we could have a solution.
 
2014-04-26 11:22:44 AM  

ArkAngel [TotalFark]


At least they're taking it for something of decent importance instead of giving it to a business

Sure, the schools need all this land to fail students.
 
2014-04-26 11:48:27 AM  
I lived for years on Lake Lanier, the next door neighbor of Buford. What's happened is all the cheesy, get rich quick real estate developers and Rah! Rah! Chamber of Commerce types have moved north of Atlanta towards the lake and are molding Buford to their liking. It used to be a backwater wide place in the road of kudzu, 1950's clapboard houses and old, old failing businesses.

But the land was cheap. You can fill in the blanks from there ..
 
2014-04-26 12:01:49 PM  

foxyshadis: Shvetz: Igor Jakovsky: Our family lost the family farm and land back in the late 50s to eminent domain. The state of NC built Forsyth Technical College on top of it.

The family got lowballed and the stress probably put my Great Grandfather in an early grave.

Hope the Legion at least gets a fair price if they're forced out.

This is the big problem with eminent domain. You have somebody else deciding what your property is worth, and it's always well below market value. It's a double whammy, where people are forced to move, and are not given enough money to move somewhere similar.

It can always be challenged in court, which gives anyone an opportunity to demand a fair price. The mere threat of a challenge and the costs associated can loosen the purse strings of the government some.

Then again, like FSBO movement has proven, most people have an inflated idea of the worth of their property anyway. Proposing a value from the absolute peak of the housing bubble as being reasonable today is a perfect example.


In many states the imminent domain action can proceed without the agreement being reached, so if you challenge it in court they will take your property anyway, giving you nothing, and the only thing you challenge on court is the compensation. If you don't have the money to challenge it out of your pocket AND find another place to live, you are screwed. Most entities with ID authority don't give a crappy about having to fight that court battle because they are usually public agencies so the tax payer is paying the bill. Unless you can get an injunction on the imminent domain proceedings, which can be close to impossible unless there is something unusual in the request (new london), fighting it is a real uphill battle unless you are rich. Like everything else.
 
2014-04-26 12:30:39 PM  

Testiclaw: Maybe they can just storm an IWW office and move in there?

Maybe bust up some union strikes and beat down folks trying to push for decent wages or something, while they're at it.


Ring-a-ding!
Everyone today falls for the sentimentality without realizing what scummy origins the organization has.
As much as I hate Eminent Domain, I hate the American Legion even more. The Klan were not the only ones lynching folks in the past. If you enjoy a decent wage, a 40 hour week, insurance, workman's comp, or any other benefits of being a worker in America, don't thank the legion because they fought tooth and nail against justice for labor.
fark the lapdogs of industry.
 
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