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(Opposing Views)   Problem: Returning soldier finds two squatters in his home, police refuse to throw them out. Solution: A motorcycle gang of military veterans roll by and "peacefully make the squatters uncomfortable"   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, squatters, squatters uncomfortable, veterans, refuses, New Port Richey, soldiers, motorcycles  
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23317 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2014 at 3:34 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-04-25 02:31:33 PM  
6 votes:

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


If the homeowner had taken the time and effort to become wealthy, the cops would have gone in with guns drawn.  So this really is all on him.
2014-04-25 03:44:04 PM  
5 votes:

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.
2014-04-25 02:44:20 PM  
5 votes:

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.
2014-04-25 02:34:38 PM  
4 votes:
He should've pretended he was writing the police from a bank's legal department.
2014-04-25 03:53:05 PM  
3 votes:
Soldier was deployed with Guard unit.  He went active Duty over there, got orders to Hawaii.  Wifey picked up and moved and met him there.  Left Papers with friend to watch house, get work done.  Friend hired fly-by-night with no real contract.  Fly-by-night moved in changed locks and took house over a weekend.  Friend couldn't do anything about it, and cops wouldn't since no $ in it.  Local Story Squaters trashed place and abandoned dogs in it.  Local Vets and others volunterring to fix issues.
2014-04-25 03:45:13 PM  
3 votes:
it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.
2014-04-25 03:39:47 PM  
3 votes:
FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.
2014-04-25 03:00:34 PM  
3 votes:

Mark Ratner: I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day



If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.
2014-04-25 04:25:19 PM  
2 votes:
Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone.

Did a piss poor job of that.
2014-04-25 04:11:02 PM  
2 votes:
a TENET is a central premise of a belief system.

a TENANT is somebody consensually renting or occupying a place they don't own.

Brought to you by an INCHOATE, somebody who wants to stop twitching while reading this thread. ;)
2014-04-25 04:03:11 PM  
2 votes:
Seriously? Some of you people on here are why we cant have nice things. Why are you so farking inflamed that some folks have more than others? Get out and work for it you lazy pieces of shiat. Oh poor farking me *boo hoo* I have to blame everyone but myself for my poor life choices."  Sometimes you people make me sick man. Dude was stationed away from the house he comes back and felons...*FELONS* had taken over his hose and for you guys to even insinuate he did anything wrong is even beyond absurd. Jumpin' Jesus Christ on a pogo stick grow the fark up.
2014-04-25 04:00:58 PM  
2 votes:

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


He didn't take the law into his own hands, he tried going to the cops.  That's where I'm no longer torn and you should not be either.

This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.
2014-04-25 03:55:12 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.


That statement challenges the central tenants of my belief system.
2014-04-25 03:47:39 PM  
2 votes:
Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.
2014-04-25 03:38:40 PM  
2 votes:
sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??
2014-04-25 02:50:20 PM  
2 votes:
If it's his house, can't he just shoot them? This story is coming out of Florida after all.
2014-04-25 02:50:07 PM  
2 votes:

meat0918: On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner. Isn't menacing a crime in most places?



Really?  The "menacing" is geared towards pieces of garbage, not an innocent couple.

/Never had to deal with squatters.
//But it was shiatty enough when I had to kick out a person who was renting a room from me and stopped paying rent.
2014-04-25 10:55:46 PM  
1 vote:

Dirty J1: These bikers are made up of former veterans


The Hells Angels were made up of former military from WWII, mostly pilots who still wanted that thrill and couldn't re-integrate back into society. The concept of the biker's leather jackets were because that's what they brought home with them from the service.
2014-04-25 10:21:04 PM  
1 vote:
This is all about whom is making the claims.

For example; if it were Wells Fargo saying people were squatting in a home owned by WF, then those squatters would be evicted.

Some not-rich-guy saying people are squatting in his home?  Eh, cops wont help you.
2014-04-25 09:18:17 PM  
1 vote:
Really need to do something about this squatter crap. :D
2014-04-25 06:31:58 PM  
1 vote:
So other than shooting unarmed americans and their dogs, what "good" are police again?
2014-04-25 05:44:17 PM  
1 vote:

The_Sponge: meat0918: On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner. Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Really?  The "menacing" is geared towards pieces of garbage, not an innocent couple.

/Never had to deal with squatters.
//But it was shiatty enough when I had to kick out a person who was renting a room from me and stopped paying rent.


According to a plurality of the nation *I* am a "piece of garbage" because I am not part of the "right" religion.  Not too long ago the people living down the street from me were "pieces of garbage" for having the wrong color skin for this neighborhood.

Hot-blooded vigilantism is fun, quick, and easy, but it erodes the structure of a nation of laws.

Sgt Otter: bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.

Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


I was house-sitting for a friend for a week and my thoughts often turned to, "what to do when the police start questioning the stranger (me) who doesn't live here?"
2014-04-25 05:31:59 PM  
1 vote:
Too bad he called the police. He could have just walked into the house, waited for the people to face him, shot them, THEN called the police and said the pieces of shiat said they were going to kill him and moved towards him menacingly. And I would be 100% OK with that. If you don't want to get shot, stay off of other people's property. It's a super easy rule to live by.
2014-04-25 04:49:44 PM  
1 vote:
Know some good carpet cleaners. They deep clean carpets really well!

Squatters can die a slow & painful death. fark them, even more so if they drag their rotten crotchfruit into it.
2014-04-25 04:37:36 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law.



This is a common expression but how it is commonly used is horseshiat.

It originated from English Common Law and when it was said that possession is 9/10 of the law it meant that 90% of the laws on the books were related to determining possession of property, not that having possession of something gives you leverage when determining ownership.
2014-04-25 04:26:13 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: lennavan: This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.

Uh, you do realize that the law considers them residents of the property, and had he done that, they would have been legally justified in shooting him the moment he kicked the door in and forced entry.

They would have been standing their ground against an attacker.


Only if they were actually residents.

It turns on whether they were actually given permission to stay on the property (duration is less important).  If they were either guests or tenants, then they are/were residents and have to be evicted even if the permissible period of residency is long up.  If they were never guests or tenants, they they were and are trespassing.

Assuming they were trespassing (and the facts seem to lean that way for sure), the real problem I see with lennavan's stand your ground strategy is that the whole thing falls apart if you go in with the intention of shooting them.

A much better strategy is to simply wait till they leave and then toss their stuff out and change the locks back.  If you're right and they aren't residents, they can't do anything, and if you're wrong, no one is being charged with murder, though you might be getting sued.
2014-04-25 04:25:34 PM  
1 vote:
I hate those "I've been serving my country" people.
2014-04-25 04:24:14 PM  
1 vote:
He gave up any chance of OWNING the property, which is the goal of adverse possession, when he claimed he had permission from an agent of the owner to be there.  You see, that claim acknowledges ownership.  IANAL.  His best chance to stay would be to fight eviction, and numerous potential bikers.
2014-04-25 04:19:15 PM  
1 vote:

Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.


Yeah? So is rape.
2014-04-25 04:17:16 PM  
1 vote:

Born_Again_Bavarian: There seems to be some details missing from this story.

How long were the squatters living there?  Was the solider really shocked to come back after 2 years and find someone living there?  Has he not seen a utility bill, get a call from a neighbor or do anything at all to check on the status of his property while he was gone?  He's obviously from the area because there isn't an Army base anywhere around there (Closest is just south of Jacksonville).  Was he really just leaving the property vacant with no AC running for 2 years?


Yeah... couple-three things from a better article I read yesterday:

1. DOUBLE FAIL: the motorcycle rally was planned for Saturday, but Ortiz moved out first because of other pressures. Article FAIL for suggesting the M.C. forced Ortiz' hand, Subby FAIL for heavily implying the M.C. rally happened. Bad Subby.

2. Ortiz told the cops he was there as the result of a verbal contract. As a result, he could not be evicted without court proceedings.

3. When he was seen to be moving out, friends came and stood by to make sure there was no trouble/damage. Ortiz left two dogs which Animal Control crated but then Ortiz returned for them. Local vets have pledged to help clean up and repair the house.

Also see Farker lokis_mentor's comment above which is a very succinct summary of the facts and includes a link to another article.

Bad Subby! No treat for you.
2014-04-25 04:09:23 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.


Possession isn't really 9/10 of the law.  If it was just a he-said/she-said in this case, the police would evict the guys based on trespassing.  However, additional facts are that the friend who was managing the house while the soldier was away does admit to hiring the squatter to make repairs, but says that there was no authorization to live there.

It's entirely possible that's the full story, and the squatters are trespassers, but it makes it a little harder to determine, especially if the home-managing friend can't produce a copy of a contract that specfies payment, but does not authorize housesitting.  In that case, it's a question of contract terms.
2014-04-25 04:06:35 PM  
1 vote:

walktoanarcade: Fark the cops, they're wrong. You're stupid for calling them because once the cops hear anything legal, they blank out.  Their "oh goodie I don't have to work it's a civil matter" muscle has been activated at that point.


So break in, and get legally shot by people that Florida Law considers a tenet at the residence after they "fear for their lives" and stand their ground.

Brilliant plan.

Netrngr: Dude was stationed away from the house he comes back and felons...*FELONS* had taken over his hose and for you guys to even insinuate he did anything wrong is even beyond absurd.


Who's been doing that?

As far as I can see. everyone in this thread is in agreement that these people are terrible people. The problem is that Florida doesn't consider them intruders, and there is nothing for the cops to do at this point.

All the property owner had to do was file for eviction. Heck, for added fun, he could have filed a civil claim for back rent due since they "lived there".
2014-04-25 04:02:34 PM  
1 vote:

lennavan: This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.


Uh, you do realize that the law considers them residents of the property, and had he done that, they would have been legally justified in shooting him the moment he kicked the door in and forced entry.

They would have been standing their ground against an attacker.
2014-04-25 04:01:50 PM  
1 vote:
So the Moral of the Story is don't be poor or dumb enough to be lied to by war profiteers to go overseas to kill other people's children in wars of conquest or you could lose house to vagrants.
2014-04-25 03:58:46 PM  
1 vote:

rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


A verbal contract is just as good as a written contract unless some other provision of law provides (see Statute of Frauds for your jurisdiction).
2014-04-25 03:57:52 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?

I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.


Problem is how much of a POA did their friend have.  Florida, the owner of the property or agent with full power (ie pays taxes on behalf of owner) has to file eviction.  Problem is if squatters turned power on in their name, boom residency established.  If owner is stuck in Hawaii, it is a pain in the ass to file.
2014-04-25 03:57:34 PM  
1 vote:
The laws are similar throughout a lot of the country (including here in California). Basically, all you have to do is break into a house, change the locks and then claim you have some sort of agreement with somebody to live there. Typically, if you aren't noticed within 24 hours the cops won't touch it. Sometimes 12 hours is sufficient. Then, in order to get you out the landowner has to evict you through the court system, which typically takes 2-4 weeks depending on the area. Meanwhile, the house and all of the contents are yours to do with as you please.

The law is completely retarded and needs to be changed. It's even worse in the UK.
2014-04-25 03:52:55 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.


This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.
2014-04-25 03:51:30 PM  
1 vote:

Mugato: hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned

There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.


The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.
2014-04-25 03:51:21 PM  
1 vote:

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Even if his friend is lying and they did have a verbal agreement, the friend wasn't the owner to make such an arrangement.

The changing of the locks is the give-away here.  I rent my house (and have a written lease), and I would only change the locks with the owner's permission.  I'm thinking they're just squatters who found out the house was empty.
2014-04-25 03:45:25 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned


There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.
2014-04-25 03:44:49 PM  
1 vote:

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Blood is a biatch to mop up.


Protip:  Power Washer.
2014-04-25 03:43:56 PM  
1 vote:
There seems to be some details missing from this story.

How long were the squatters living there?  Was the solider really shocked to come back after 2 years and find someone living there?  Has he not seen a utility bill, get a call from a neighbor or do anything at all to check on the status of his property while he was gone?  He's obviously from the area because there isn't an Army base anywhere around there (Closest is just south of Jacksonville).  Was he really just leaving the property vacant with no AC running for 2 years?
2014-04-25 03:40:44 PM  
1 vote:
Sounds like someone didn't stand their ground.
2014-04-25 03:40:40 PM  
1 vote:
While they're peacefully kicking out squatters:

a57.foxnews.com
2014-04-25 03:19:57 PM  
1 vote:

SauronWasFramed: If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.


Did you have a stroke while writing this?
2014-04-25 03:01:49 PM  
1 vote:
If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.
2014-04-25 02:56:09 PM  
1 vote:
I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day
2014-04-25 02:12:37 PM  
1 vote:
I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?
 
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