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(Opposing Views)   Problem: Returning soldier finds two squatters in his home, police refuse to throw them out. Solution: A motorcycle gang of military veterans roll by and "peacefully make the squatters uncomfortable"   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, squatters, squatters uncomfortable, veterans, refuses, New Port Richey, soldiers, motorcycles  
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23317 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2014 at 3:34 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-25 04:49:24 PM  

bunner: Rent Party: rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally?

Yes.  A contract is an agreement, not a piece of paper.  If I offer you five dollars for your toupee, and you say yes, that's a contract.

I think that's more free market commerce.

If the legal staff here on FARK would correct me, these are my assumptions

Retail commerce occurs within a common social contract that goods and services A are exchanged for remuneration or thing of value B and that's all sorted out and the government gets it's chare and every body f*cks off home.  Contracts are often reserved for business or real property acquisitions and transfers, mergers and loans or any sort of business wherein a given amount of capital or assets will remain extant or in play, and require proof of ownership, proof of contracted debt and interest and which need to state clearly any given terms.  These are usually for transactions where more than the cost of a stick of butter are in play.  And should be.  And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.   So, this whole fandango was dogsh*t and should have taken about two hours to remedy.

No?


No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.
 
2014-04-25 04:49:44 PM  
Know some good carpet cleaners. They deep clean carpets really well!

Squatters can die a slow & painful death. fark them, even more so if they drag their rotten crotchfruit into it.
 
2014-04-25 04:52:01 PM  

walktoanarcade: hardinparamedic: I'm not saying he's not right, or that he shouldn't be able to. What I am saying is that the law would be completely on their side if what you suggest actually went down.

I know you're not defending the squatters.

If he didn't call the cops(who in then turn made an official note of it) he could have brutally fixed the situation, was my point.That's what I'd expect any thinking and effective warrior to do anyway.

I do agree fully that if he broke in, owning to Florida's bad laws, they most likely would have walked had they pumped him full o' lead.   My guess is that they may have stood a worse chance against him, but thn again his neutered actions suggest otherwise.

I sure hope someone more war-like takes his place in the Army, that's for sure.


Don't they take an oath to defend the Constitution, the United States, and it's laws?
 
2014-04-25 04:52:05 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.

So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.

/if it does, do similar laws apply to other people? Can I just declare Kate Upton my wife and it's up to her to handle divorce proceedings? And until such time as the divorce comes through I get to do stuff???


In FL,  if they got utilities, DL, Official mail (bank statements, bills, et al) or registered to vote/vehicle at that address, then that is enough to estabilsh domicile, and eviction has to be done through court  a quick and dirty summarry of Florida Statue §196.015.

I had to deal with it when my records got confused with my father's, and I was listed as dead about a year after he died when I was stationed in Hawaii.  That was a Headache and two halves.
 
2014-04-25 04:52:40 PM  

bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.


This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.
 
2014-04-25 04:55:04 PM  

lokis_mentor: Scrotastic Method: So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.

/if it does, do similar laws apply to other people? Can I just declare Kate Upton my wife and it's up to her to handle divorce proceedings? And until such time as the divorce comes through I get to do stuff???

In FL,  if they got utilities, DL, Official mail (bank statements, bills, et al) or registered to vote/vehicle at that address, then that is enough to estabilsh domicile, and eviction has to be done through court  a quick and dirty summarry of Florida Statue §196.015.

I had to deal with it when my records got confused with my father's, and I was listed as dead about a year after he died when I was stationed in Hawaii.  That was a Headache and two halves.


So what you're saying is...if I send open a bank account in Kate Upton's name and have the statements sent to me in Florida, I'm legally allowed to touch her boobies? Excellent.
 
2014-04-25 04:55:56 PM  

sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts


Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.
 
2014-04-25 04:56:06 PM  
Big time liberal here.
If this happened to me, the squatters would not be living there one way or another.
Either they would be gone or not living.
 
2014-04-25 04:56:37 PM  
He should have just called exterminators.  Might as well do your termite tenting when none of your own stuff is in the house!
 
2014-04-25 04:58:35 PM  

Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.


Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.
 
2014-04-25 04:58:41 PM  

ThreadSinger: interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons


Brilliant!
 
2014-04-25 04:58:56 PM  

Mugato: sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts

Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.


But they are valid oral contracts.
 
2014-04-25 04:59:53 PM  

bunner: Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.

Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.


"Market commerce" is a verb.  "Contracts" are a noun that complete the subject/object relationship.  :)
 
2014-04-25 05:00:58 PM  

sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.


Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?
 
2014-04-25 05:01:40 PM  

Rent Party: bunner: Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.

Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.

"Market commerce" is a verb.  "Contracts" are a noun that complete the subject/object relationship.  :)


Hmmm
 
2014-04-25 05:02:12 PM  

Mugato: sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts

Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.


They are just a minor example of how commerce functions with oral contracts
 
2014-04-25 05:03:02 PM  

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.  That's why the law has developed to protect tenants.
 
2014-04-25 05:03:32 PM  

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


yes, but thats why an eviction ruling would be very easy to obtain. it doesn't mean you don't have to get one.
 
2014-04-25 05:03:43 PM  

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


It isn't a legal requirement for a tenant to have either. Once someone has established residency you have to follow legal steps to remove them.
 
2014-04-25 05:04:56 PM  
Bunch of muscle-bound hairy dudes in ski masks show up at night, bundle filthy thieving squatters into a van with a muddy plate and give them a nice ride to a dirt road waaaay outside of town. Strip them nude (yes, including shoes), place their hands on the van bumper and apply baseball bat liberally directly to fingers. Drive off, taking their clothes and identification and pitching them out the window in pieces over the next 30 minutes while driving away from the city of residence. Double back, move into home and start cleanup. I can assure you that squatters will be keeping a really low profile if this becomes the norm.
 
2014-04-25 05:05:18 PM  

sprgrss: You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.


Ohhhh, not really.  :  /

tlchwi02:
yes, but thats why an eviction ruling would be very easy to obtain. it doesn't mean you don't have to get one.

Check.
 
2014-04-25 05:06:05 PM  

sprgrss: bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?

You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.  That's why the law has developed to protect tenants.


As a landlord let me tell you there are horror story tenants too.

Current one is a dream, "If I go buy some fertilizer and stuff for the yard will you reimburse me? I would like to do some work in the back yard. "Sure spend less than $150 and send me the receipts so I can write them off."
 
2014-04-25 05:06:52 PM  

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: You didn't follow. Small contracts can be printed as easily and onto receipt paper.

And the phone?  Like that isn't recorded? I'm not talking about the latest news headlines, I mean, reputable business routinely monitor phone calls.

If it's done over the phone nowadays, be rested assured it's stored(the conversation) somewhere,

Receipts aren't contracts and receipts are only provided after a contract has been entered into.

And not all businesses record their phone conversations.

Say for instance you operate a plumbing business and you are on site and need a bastard coupling.  You call up your parts supplier and order one.  Your parts supplier sends it over to you.  No writing is necessary, not to mention that the receipt wouldn't qualify as a written contract since it isn't signed by both parties.

Or how about this, you call up to order a pizza.  Should the pizza should first have to send a person over to your house to get you to sign a written contract before the pizza place starts making your pizza?

Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts


*sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.


tl;dr? We both win the prize~!
 
2014-04-25 05:07:43 PM  
I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.
 
2014-04-25 05:08:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: Mugato: hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned

There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.

The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.


Please show me a piece of paper with some kind of agreement to that affect. Baring that, gtfo.
 
2014-04-25 05:09:51 PM  

walktoanarcade: *sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.


I operate a widget manufacturing plant.

You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?
 
2014-04-25 05:11:19 PM  

walktoanarcade: Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection. 

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.


Those are prime examples of oral contracts and the caller ID isn't a written contract.  It's just proof that I called you.  Plus you are assuming
 
2014-04-25 05:11:54 PM  
that every place has caller ID just because you want them to.
 
2014-04-25 05:12:14 PM  
They should go into business.  Veteran Trash Removal Services.
 
2014-04-25 05:13:17 PM  

walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.


That's an oral contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:13:49 PM  
I have that.  It lets me know when spammers are trying to sell me things.  The v-mail is always on.  And I have not answered my phone personally for more than 3 out of the last 200 calls.  *sigh*
 
2014-04-25 05:14:04 PM  
img.photobucket.com

"Compliments of Sharkey!"
 
2014-04-25 05:14:52 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: boinkingbill: So Sharkey's friend who was overseeing the house never called police when he found two people inside of it?  Sounds like there was a verbal agreement of some sort, either that or Sharkey's friend never checked on the house.

Am I the only one here who saw the name "Sharkey" and thought of this:

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 480x360]

Anybody?

*crickets*

/crap ... I'm old ...



Hahaha!

That was before my time....but am a fan of Mr. Warmth.

/Seen him perform twice.
 
2014-04-25 05:15:57 PM  

bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.


Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.
 
2014-04-25 05:19:36 PM  

Sgt Otter: Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


True.  Then again, what blithering idiot hands the keys over to a property of a friend for some nebulous promise of "improvements and maintenance"?  There's a reason house sitters cost money and are vetted like federal agents before they move in.  Oh, and there's a contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:19:39 PM  

sprgrss: You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?


You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:21 PM  
Arrived hoping for the Jim Varney episode of 'The Simpsons'...

Leaving very happy.

/Well, as happy as I can get these days.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:58 PM  

Sgt Otter: bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.

Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


That only protects you against the person whom you have the contract with.  Not the good faith sublessor.

Point is, Cops aren't going to get involved absent a court order when there is someone who is domiciled at the location.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:59 PM  

The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.


My Aunt moved from Seattle to Melbourne and tell tales of all the insanity.
 
2014-04-25 05:21:08 PM  

jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.


Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.
 
2014-04-25 05:22:18 PM  

payattention: /Well, as happy as I can get these days.


:  /

:  \

:  |


www.trinitypullman.org
 
2014-04-25 05:22:33 PM  
Mugato: sprgrss: You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?

You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  You stated oral contracts should be abolished.  I said that would grind commerce to a halt. You then wanted examples.

At no point have you made yourself clear as to what you mean other than to emphatically state that oral contracts should be abolished.

Methinks you don't understand what a contract is.
 
2014-04-25 05:24:30 PM  

walktoanarcade: jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.

Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.


It's an oral contract just like any other oral contract.  It's a meeting of the minds between two competent parties and there is consideration.

It's but an example of an oral contract.  An oral contract that under the "abolish oral contracts" regime would not be able to happen and thus commerce and ease of life are negatively effected.
 
2014-04-25 05:24:49 PM  
Incidentally, "Pizza Contract" would make an OK Fark handle.

Bathroom Stall Litigation comes a close second.  heh
 
2014-04-25 05:25:07 PM  

walktoanarcade: jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.

Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.


Your opinion does not change the fact that it is an example of an oral contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:25:27 PM  

sprgrss: You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  You stated oral contracts should be abolished.  I said that would grind commerce to a halt. You then wanted examples.

At no point have you made yourself clear as to what you mean other than to emphatically state that oral contracts should be abolished.

Methinks you don't understand what a contract is.


Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.
 
2014-04-25 05:26:27 PM  

Mugato: Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.


Then what in the fark are you talking about?
 
2014-04-25 05:27:13 PM  
Did I stumble into chapter three of "Starship Troopers"?
 
2014-04-25 05:28:16 PM  
sprgrss
It's a sexy oral contract just like any other oral contract, but needs coaxing.  It's a meeting of like-minded stoners, one supplying the munchies, the other the monies.

Finally you make sense.
 
2014-04-25 05:28:35 PM  
Guys?  Seriously.
 
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