If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Opposing Views)   Problem: Returning soldier finds two squatters in his home, police refuse to throw them out. Solution: A motorcycle gang of military veterans roll by and "peacefully make the squatters uncomfortable"   (opposingviews.com) divider line 290
    More: Hero, squatters, squatters uncomfortable, veterans, refuses, New Port Richey, soldiers, motorcycles  
•       •       •

23186 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2014 at 3:34 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



290 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-25 02:12:37 PM
I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?
 
2014-04-25 02:31:33 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


If the homeowner had taken the time and effort to become wealthy, the cops would have gone in with guns drawn.  So this really is all on him.
 
2014-04-25 02:34:38 PM
He should've pretended he was writing the police from a bank's legal department.
 
2014-04-25 02:44:20 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.
 
2014-04-25 02:50:07 PM

meat0918: On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner. Isn't menacing a crime in most places?



Really?  The "menacing" is geared towards pieces of garbage, not an innocent couple.

/Never had to deal with squatters.
//But it was shiatty enough when I had to kick out a person who was renting a room from me and stopped paying rent.
 
2014-04-25 02:50:20 PM
If it's his house, can't he just shoot them? This story is coming out of Florida after all.
 
2014-04-25 02:56:09 PM
I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day
 
2014-04-25 03:00:34 PM

Mark Ratner: I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day



If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.
 
2014-04-25 03:01:49 PM
If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.
 
2014-04-25 03:19:57 PM

SauronWasFramed: If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.


Did you have a stroke while writing this?
 
2014-04-25 03:32:06 PM

The_Sponge: If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.


That's guaranteed no matter what with squatters.  They'll steal anything they can fence and trash what they can't.
 
2014-04-25 03:38:15 PM

Mugato: If it's his house, can't he just shoot them? This story is coming out of Florida after all.


He's military, so he could have just used nerve gas.

Blood is a biatch to mop up.
 
2014-04-25 03:38:40 PM
sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??
 
2014-04-25 03:39:47 PM
FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.
 
2014-04-25 03:40:17 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


It probably would not be hard to get an eviction notice served and processed. They'd have no defense whatsoever. That said, I think it's nonsense they'd have to go through all that.
 
2014-04-25 03:40:40 PM
While they're peacefully kicking out squatters:

a57.foxnews.com
 
2014-04-25 03:40:44 PM
Sounds like someone didn't stand their ground.
 
2014-04-25 03:41:16 PM
ih2.redbubble.net

Just put it in the window.
 
2014-04-25 03:42:07 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


Probably planet "seems to tough for us to figure out so you deal with it" I'm having a problem with my insurance compant about my home address and the amount of "well I cant fix that" I have heard is absurd.
 
2014-04-25 03:43:56 PM
There seems to be some details missing from this story.

How long were the squatters living there?  Was the solider really shocked to come back after 2 years and find someone living there?  Has he not seen a utility bill, get a call from a neighbor or do anything at all to check on the status of his property while he was gone?  He's obviously from the area because there isn't an Army base anywhere around there (Closest is just south of Jacksonville).  Was he really just leaving the property vacant with no AC running for 2 years?
 
2014-04-25 03:44:02 PM
I was assuming the bikers just rolled up, set up lawn chairs on the front, and read books with threatening titles like "The Art of War" or "Slaughterhouse Five" or "Atlas Shrugged" for hours on end while brewing cups of puerh tea.

You wanna make squatters more uncomfortable? Have them invite the local swing choir too.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:04 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:12 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.


...and will scream "ADVERSE POSSESSION!" the minute they step into the house, as though being in a house a day entitles you to keep it.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:49 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Blood is a biatch to mop up.


Protip:  Power Washer.
 
2014-04-25 03:45:13 PM
it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.
 
2014-04-25 03:45:25 PM

hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned


There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.
 
2014-04-25 03:46:33 PM

mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.


I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.
 
2014-04-25 03:46:59 PM
I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??
 
2014-04-25 03:47:39 PM
Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.
 
2014-04-25 03:47:48 PM

mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.


This.
 
2014-04-25 03:49:06 PM

hardinparamedic: verbal agreement


Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?
 
2014-04-25 03:49:10 PM
img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-25 03:50:24 PM
All these posts and nothing about adverse possession?
 
2014-04-25 03:50:24 PM
FTFA:  Police told Sharkey that they could do nothing about the couple, Julio Ortiz and Fatima Cardosa, since they already established residency, so the matter would have to be settled in a civil court.

That is not how property law or criminal law works...

These cops are morons.
 
2014-04-25 03:51:21 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Even if his friend is lying and they did have a verbal agreement, the friend wasn't the owner to make such an arrangement.

The changing of the locks is the give-away here.  I rent my house (and have a written lease), and I would only change the locks with the owner's permission.  I'm thinking they're just squatters who found out the house was empty.
 
2014-04-25 03:51:30 PM

Mugato: hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned

There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.


The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.
 
2014-04-25 03:52:48 PM

rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on." -- Samuel Goldwyn
 
2014-04-25 03:52:55 PM

hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.


This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.
 
2014-04-25 03:52:58 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Worthless pigs do it all the time and doesn't seem to be illegal.. even when taken to a felony level.   In other news (today), guy breaks into hotel room and goes to sleep, gets arrested immediately.  So..... why exactly do you not like people taking the law into their own hands when cops are too busy eating donuts out of each others' cracks to do anything about it?
 
2014-04-25 03:53:05 PM
Soldier was deployed with Guard unit.  He went active Duty over there, got orders to Hawaii.  Wifey picked up and moved and met him there.  Left Papers with friend to watch house, get work done.  Friend hired fly-by-night with no real contract.  Fly-by-night moved in changed locks and took house over a weekend.  Friend couldn't do anything about it, and cops wouldn't since no $ in it.  Local Story Squaters trashed place and abandoned dogs in it.  Local Vets and others volunterring to fix issues.
 
2014-04-25 03:53:17 PM

rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.
 
2014-04-25 03:53:27 PM
This is a very patient man.  I think I would have reacted somewhat less calmly in that situation.
 
2014-04-25 03:55:12 PM

hardinparamedic: The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.


That statement challenges the central tenants of my belief system.
 
2014-04-25 03:55:28 PM

hardinparamedic: The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.


Then without written documentation of that agreement, the burden would have to be on the squatter. Otherwise again, this would happen whenever someone finds out that a family is going away for a couple weeks.
 
2014-04-25 03:56:03 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


This.  The guy who owned the house was obviously successful enough that he didn't NEED that house, and obviously the guy who broke in and changed the lock DID need the house.  It isn't fair.  And in a perfect world those motorcycle baby killer thugs would all be in prison.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:14 PM

Born_Again_Bavarian: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

This.


ThreadSinger: I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??


The story goes, a friend of the owner hired some dude to remodel the inside of the house in exchange for rent. I saw this on the news and the guy (squatter) had the crew in the house showing them all of the work. The owner (via Skype from BFE) yelled and screamed the dude is a criminal!

Who remodeled your house?

Someone here isn't telling the truth.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:34 PM
The laws are similar throughout a lot of the country (including here in California). Basically, all you have to do is break into a house, change the locks and then claim you have some sort of agreement with somebody to live there. Typically, if you aren't noticed within 24 hours the cops won't touch it. Sometimes 12 hours is sufficient. Then, in order to get you out the landowner has to evict you through the court system, which typically takes 2-4 weeks depending on the area. Meanwhile, the house and all of the contents are yours to do with as you please.

The law is completely retarded and needs to be changed. It's even worse in the UK.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:52 PM
Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:52 PM

hardinparamedic: rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?

I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.


Problem is how much of a POA did their friend have.  Florida, the owner of the property or agent with full power (ie pays taxes on behalf of owner) has to file eviction.  Problem is if squatters turned power on in their name, boom residency established.  If owner is stuck in Hawaii, it is a pain in the ass to file.
 
2014-04-25 03:58:04 PM

vudukungfu: Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.


That sounds dangerous, how about just show up with a truck and run it all night with a hose going from the tailpipe in to a window of the home.
 
2014-04-25 03:58:46 PM

rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


A verbal contract is just as good as a written contract unless some other provision of law provides (see Statute of Frauds for your jurisdiction).
 
2014-04-25 04:00:14 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The_Sponge: If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.

That's guaranteed no matter what with squatters.  They'll steal anything they can fence and trash what they can't.


So purification through flame then.
 
2014-04-25 04:00:58 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


He didn't take the law into his own hands, he tried going to the cops.  That's where I'm no longer torn and you should not be either.

This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.
 
2014-04-25 04:01:01 PM

Mugato: Then without written documentation of that agreement, the burden would have to be on the squatter. Otherwise again, this would happen whenever someone finds out that a family is going away for a couple weeks.


It's a little more complicated than that, Mugato. In this case, it was more than simple break-in. They were living there - they had furniture and possessions there. More importantly, they had a working key to the house, and had been there more than a few days. They had a circumstantial case for tenancy and residency at that property.

This is the same reason why if I agreed to let you stay with me in exchange for working on my property that I can't just call the cops up and have you removed any time I want.
 
2014-04-25 04:01:50 PM
So the Moral of the Story is don't be poor or dumb enough to be lied to by war profiteers to go overseas to kill other people's children in wars of conquest or you could lose house to vagrants.
 
2014-04-25 04:02:10 PM

Headso: vudukungfu: Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.

That sounds dangerous, how about just show up with a truck and run it all night with a hose going from the tailpipe in to a window of the home.


media.npr.org

FOOKING GENIUS!!
 
2014-04-25 04:02:34 PM

lennavan: This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.


Uh, you do realize that the law considers them residents of the property, and had he done that, they would have been legally justified in shooting him the moment he kicked the door in and forced entry.

They would have been standing their ground against an attacker.
 
2014-04-25 04:02:46 PM
He's either one seriously old E-4 or he's lived a real hard life. Did he get busted down for something or just spent loads of years stuck in a reserve/guard rank or is he just an idiot who can't get promoted?  I'm banking on the last since he seems to think just abandoning your house for two years is a great idea. What could possibly go wrong?
 
2014-04-25 04:03:07 PM
Sad that an army guy needed rescuing from "outlaw" bikers.

Dude, why didn't you just break in? Fark the cops, they're wrong. You're stupid for calling them because once the cops hear anything legal, they blank out.  Their "oh goodie I don't have to work it's a civil matter" muscle has been activated at that point.

If all someone has to do is lie to get the police off their backs, then it looks like calling the cops is a bad idea, dude.
 
2014-04-25 04:03:11 PM
Seriously? Some of you people on here are why we cant have nice things. Why are you so farking inflamed that some folks have more than others? Get out and work for it you lazy pieces of shiat. Oh poor farking me *boo hoo* I have to blame everyone but myself for my poor life choices."  Sometimes you people make me sick man. Dude was stationed away from the house he comes back and felons...*FELONS* had taken over his hose and for you guys to even insinuate he did anything wrong is even beyond absurd. Jumpin' Jesus Christ on a pogo stick grow the fark up.
 
2014-04-25 04:03:24 PM
This is a very interesting exercise into the notions of what does and does not construe property ownership.  And to what degree all of this ostensibly civilized and plainly understood legal fandango tango comes down to who can steal what and who can beat who's ass in order to keep it.  After all the papers were signed and the money changed hands and the deeds and titles were prined on heavy bond paper, it came down to having to defend your home and keep it my means of informing those who would try and illegaly take it that they could end up with their teeth on a curb outside and their ass in traction.  And the law, with all of it's papers and guns and tax revenues, did nothing.
 
2014-04-25 04:03:37 PM

ThreadSinger: I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??


It dates to the first colonization of the lands, reinforced by laws like the Homestead Act. Take the land (regardless of who is on it since Indians are not citizens), farm on it, improve it, and it is yours. Or build your fence on your neighbor's yard or around his unused shed, clean up that area, keep it maintained for years and it will eventually become yours. The problem is that in the modern times it is harder to squat on large property areas because technology improves the ability to monitor the houses and land and thus catch them before the squatters can have a full legal claim to the land, but instead get caught at a point when ownership is questionable.
 
2014-04-25 04:05:00 PM

hardinparamedic: rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?

I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.


Like it or not, I think the "tenants" of this house got served the correct amount of laws that were due them. The actuall owners of the house claimed tenancy and apparently they were enforced as we can see, the true owners got their home back.

/sorry that you had such a problem your former tenant.
 
2014-04-25 04:05:41 PM

yequalsy: He's either one seriously old E-4 or he's lived a real hard life. Did he get busted down for something or just spent loads of years stuck in a reserve/guard rank or is he just an idiot who can't get promoted?  I'm banking on the last since he seems to think just abandoning your house for two years is a great idea. What could possibly go wrong?


Original story had him as a Guard member who went active. During sequester notification, FL National Guard  told 15% of the force to get out in one for or another.
 
2014-04-25 04:06:35 PM

walktoanarcade: Fark the cops, they're wrong. You're stupid for calling them because once the cops hear anything legal, they blank out.  Their "oh goodie I don't have to work it's a civil matter" muscle has been activated at that point.


So break in, and get legally shot by people that Florida Law considers a tenet at the residence after they "fear for their lives" and stand their ground.

Brilliant plan.

Netrngr: Dude was stationed away from the house he comes back and felons...*FELONS* had taken over his hose and for you guys to even insinuate he did anything wrong is even beyond absurd.


Who's been doing that?

As far as I can see. everyone in this thread is in agreement that these people are terrible people. The problem is that Florida doesn't consider them intruders, and there is nothing for the cops to do at this point.

All the property owner had to do was file for eviction. Heck, for added fun, he could have filed a civil claim for back rent due since they "lived there".
 
2014-04-25 04:06:44 PM

lokis_mentor: yequalsy: He's either one seriously old E-4 or he's lived a real hard life. Did he get busted down for something or just spent loads of years stuck in a reserve/guard rank or is he just an idiot who can't get promoted?  I'm banking on the last since he seems to think just abandoning your house for two years is a great idea. What could possibly go wrong?

Original story had him as a Guard member who went active. During sequester notification, FL National Guard  told 15% of the force to get out in one for

m or another.

/ftfm
 
2014-04-25 04:06:53 PM

hardinparamedic: rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?

I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.


Ianal and its been a while since I looked at this, but I skimmed this sorta info when I was living with the ex and things were looking dodgy with the landlords (his parents). Iirc the process can leave the tenant with several weeks to vacate, depending on how long they've been there. I remember being surprised (and relieved) at how much time was really alloted.
 
2014-04-25 04:07:04 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


I saw a video interview with the squatters and they were vile, nasty, creatures.  Besides if the cops won't do anything then yes, you are within your rights to solve the problem yourself in my opinion.
 
2014-04-25 04:07:34 PM

bunner: This is a very patient man.  I think I would have reacted somewhat less calmly in that situation.


Same here. Midnight, 120cc Stihl chainsaw, hockey mask.
 
2014-04-25 04:07:38 PM
alright from the second article it seems like shady contractor who was hired to do some work found out how long the real owner would be gone and decided to take over

cause really if you have permission why the hell do you need to change the locks out
 
2014-04-25 04:07:58 PM

lokis_mentor: yequalsy: He's either one seriously old E-4 or he's lived a real hard life. Did he get busted down for something or just spent loads of years stuck in a reserve/guard rank or is he just an idiot who can't get promoted?  I'm banking on the last since he seems to think just abandoning your house for two years is a great idea. What could possibly go wrong?

Original story had him as a Guard member who went active. During sequester notification, FL National Guard  told 15% of the force to get out in one for or another.


For all we know the could just like to dress up like a marine and go to charity balls.
 
2014-04-25 04:08:01 PM

rebelyell2006: ThreadSinger: I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??

It dates to the first colonization of the lands, reinforced by laws like the Homestead Act. Take the land (regardless of who is on it since Indians are not citizens), farm on it, improve it, and it is yours. Or build your fence on your neighbor's yard or around his unused shed, clean up that area, keep it maintained for years and it will eventually become yours. The problem is that in the modern times it is harder to squat on large property areas because technology improves the ability to monitor the houses and land and thus catch them before the squatters can have a full legal claim to the land, but instead get caught at a point when ownership is questionable.


It long predates that, going back to Roman times.  Adverse possession is nothing new or unique to America.  It was imported here from Merry Ol' England which developed the idea of adverse possession long before colonization
 
2014-04-25 04:08:04 PM

Kurgan Warlord: Like it or not, I think the "tenants" of this house got served the correct amount of laws that were due them. The actuall owners of the house claimed tenancy and apparently they were enforced as we can see, the true owners got their home back.


I'm just lulzing they got ran out so easily.

Locally, it took a SWAT team to get one out.
 
2014-04-25 04:09:20 PM

Netrngr:  Why are you so farking inflamed that some folks have more than others? Get out and work for it you lazy pieces of shiat. Oh poor farking me *boo hoo* I have to blame everyone but myself for my poor life choices."


WTF are you going on about? Anyway, you forgot to sprinkle your nonsensical post with "liberals".

I'll tell you what the problem is. He came back from surfing in Hawaii instead of coming back from Afghanistan with PTSD and an itchy trigger finger. Would have been a completely different article.
 
2014-04-25 04:09:23 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.


Possession isn't really 9/10 of the law.  If it was just a he-said/she-said in this case, the police would evict the guys based on trespassing.  However, additional facts are that the friend who was managing the house while the soldier was away does admit to hiring the squatter to make repairs, but says that there was no authorization to live there.

It's entirely possible that's the full story, and the squatters are trespassers, but it makes it a little harder to determine, especially if the home-managing friend can't produce a copy of a contract that specfies payment, but does not authorize housesitting.  In that case, it's a question of contract terms.
 
2014-04-25 04:09:54 PM
Duke Energy crews came to the house to investigate how the squatters got electricity at the house.

Stealing a meter will get your ass arrested.
 
2014-04-25 04:10:05 PM
His house, simply move back in, forcefully. What will the cops do, arrest him for being in his own house?

Shoot the squatters in self defense next.
 
2014-04-25 04:10:08 PM

bunner: This is a very interesting exercise into the notions of what does and does not construe property ownership.


Disagree. I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

If there was an oral agreement, the cops would be very right to back off. They do not want to get sued and lose.   Since Florida law is stupid and leans towards the liars leaving the burden off "proof" upon the real homeowner to go to court and prove they own what they own.

You cannot legally in any way steal some else's home.
 
2014-04-25 04:10:20 PM

Evil Mackerel: lokis_mentor: yequalsy: He's either one seriously old E-4 or he's lived a real hard life. Did he get busted down for something or just spent loads of years stuck in a reserve/guard rank or is he just an idiot who can't get promoted?  I'm banking on the last since he seems to think just abandoning your house for two years is a great idea. What could possibly go wrong?

Original story had him as a Guard member who went active. During sequester notification, FL National Guard  told 15% of the force to get out in one for or another.

For all we know he could just like to dress up like a marine and go to charity balls.


FTFM
 
2014-04-25 04:11:02 PM
a TENET is a central premise of a belief system.

a TENANT is somebody consensually renting or occupying a place they don't own.

Brought to you by an INCHOATE, somebody who wants to stop twitching while reading this thread. ;)
 
2014-04-25 04:12:40 PM

hardinparamedic: So break in, and get legally shot by people that Florida Law considers a tenet at the residence after they "fear for their lives" and stand their ground.

Brilliant plan.


All that army training all for naught. Brilliant! ;)

He should have kicked their asses into the curb come hell or high water. C'mon, dude, we're talking about one of the motherfarkers who's supposed to be protecting our behinds, remember?
 
2014-04-25 04:12:41 PM

The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.


I'm pretty sure Florida got the tag from Palm Beach County and the "hanging chad" ballots from the 2000 election.

/I have lived in both Melbourne and Palm Bay
//In Melbourne I lived on East University Blvd, farther east than the fire station.  If you know the area you know why i shudder at those memories
 
2014-04-25 04:12:45 PM

loonatic112358: alright from the second article it seems like shady contractor who was hired to do some work found out how long the real owner would be gone and decided to take over

cause really if you have permission why the hell do you need to change the locks out


We had a good bit of this in New Orleans after Katrina. Lots of migrant workers (our local "labor pool" didn't do shiat), lots of fly by night contractors, and lots of homeowners living out of state for months. Many workers had legitimate arrangements, but our cours became familiar with squatting complaints after a while.
 
2014-04-25 04:14:00 PM

dr_blasto: SauronWasFramed: If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.

Did you have a stroke while writing this?


No, he's just republican.
 
2014-04-25 04:14:25 PM

walktoanarcade: Disagree. I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.


The bailiwick notwithstanding, it did indeed prevent a lawful property owner from lawfully retaining his property.  And unless this county has seceded from the USA, that is precisely the case.
 
2014-04-25 04:16:07 PM

Inchoate: a TENET is a central premise of a belief system.

a TENANT is somebody consensually renting or occupying a place they don't own.

Brought to you by an INCHOATE, somebody who wants to stop twitching while reading this thread. ;)


MY iPhone DISAGREES WITH YOUR TENET.

walktoanarcade: He should have kicked their asses into the curb come hell or high water. C'mon, dude, we're talking about one of the motherfarkers who's supposed to be protecting our behinds, remember?


I'm not saying he's not right, or that he shouldn't be able to. What I am saying is that the law would be completely on their side if what you suggest actually went down.
 
2014-04-25 04:16:08 PM
Ahem....fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-04-25 04:16:24 PM

walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.


How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?
 
2014-04-25 04:17:16 PM

Born_Again_Bavarian: There seems to be some details missing from this story.

How long were the squatters living there?  Was the solider really shocked to come back after 2 years and find someone living there?  Has he not seen a utility bill, get a call from a neighbor or do anything at all to check on the status of his property while he was gone?  He's obviously from the area because there isn't an Army base anywhere around there (Closest is just south of Jacksonville).  Was he really just leaving the property vacant with no AC running for 2 years?


Yeah... couple-three things from a better article I read yesterday:

1. DOUBLE FAIL: the motorcycle rally was planned for Saturday, but Ortiz moved out first because of other pressures. Article FAIL for suggesting the M.C. forced Ortiz' hand, Subby FAIL for heavily implying the M.C. rally happened. Bad Subby.

2. Ortiz told the cops he was there as the result of a verbal contract. As a result, he could not be evicted without court proceedings.

3. When he was seen to be moving out, friends came and stood by to make sure there was no trouble/damage. Ortiz left two dogs which Animal Control crated but then Ortiz returned for them. Local vets have pledged to help clean up and repair the house.

Also see Farker lokis_mentor's comment above which is a very succinct summary of the facts and includes a link to another article.

Bad Subby! No treat for you.
 
2014-04-25 04:18:45 PM
In the United States the Statute of Frauds require real estate contracts to be in writing to be enforceable.
 
2014-04-25 04:18:49 PM
This sounds like a huge load of bullshiat to me. You can't have someone removed from your property? So I can just break into someone's house and then the home owners have to take me to civil court to have me removed?

"I'm not robbing this house! I'm just a squatter!"
 
2014-04-25 04:19:15 PM

Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.


Yeah? So is rape.
 
2014-04-25 04:20:20 PM

brimed03: Yeah? So is rape


So, about last night....
 
2014-04-25 04:22:20 PM
Me, I would have just busted through the side wall of the house and suplexed those squatting sunsabiatches over and over again until they agreed to pay me back rent at $10,002/month and gave me a double handie.

/tuff!
 
2014-04-25 04:22:21 PM

walktoanarcade: You cannot legally in any way steal some else's home.


You vastly underestimate the power of the courts. Except, if you do it legally, you're not really "stealing" the home, because stealing implies illegal.

But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.
 
2014-04-25 04:22:26 PM

Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.


How about the bikers just go into the house and keep asking the squatters if they'd like to hear the story about why they got this one tattoo until the squatters run out of the house screaming.
 
2014-04-25 04:22:42 PM

hardinparamedic: Inchoate: a TENET is a central premise of a belief system.

a TENANT is somebody consensually renting or occupying a place they don't own.

Brought to you by an INCHOATE, somebody who wants to stop twitching while reading this thread. ;)

MY iPhone DISAGREES WITH YOUR TENET.


I see the problem. Your iPhone is a squatter.
 
2014-04-25 04:22:58 PM

Marcus Aurelius: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

If the homeowner had taken the time and effort to become wealthy, the cops would have gone in with guns drawn.  So this really is all on him.


^THIS^

You'd have two dead "robbers" and probably a planted weapon.
 
2014-04-25 04:23:01 PM

Cold_Sassy: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

I saw a video interview with the squatters and they were vile, nasty, creatures.  Besides if the cops won't do anything then yes, you are within your rights to solve the problem yourself in my opinion.


Good for you tough lady. You show 'em. And when you're in prison remember all Fark has taught you about UFIA.
 
2014-04-25 04:23:01 PM

Gonz: But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.


As a side note, I hope his property taxes are all paid up.
 
2014-04-25 04:23:09 PM

hardinparamedic: I'm not saying he's not right, or that he shouldn't be able to. What I am saying is that the law would be completely on their side if what you suggest actually went down.


I know you're not defending the squatters.

If he didn't call the cops(who in then turn made an official note of it) he could have brutally fixed the situation, was my point.That's what I'd expect any thinking and effective warrior to do anyway.

I do agree fully that if he broke in, owning to Florida's bad laws, they most likely would have walked had they pumped him full o' lead.   My guess is that they may have stood a worse chance against him, but thn again his neutered actions suggest otherwise.

I sure hope someone more war-like takes his place in the Army, that's for sure.
 
2014-04-25 04:24:04 PM

tricycleracer: Duke Energy crews came to the house to investigate how the squatters got electricity at the house.

Stealing a meter will get your ass arrested.


The homeowner probably never turned it off...
 
2014-04-25 04:24:14 PM
He gave up any chance of OWNING the property, which is the goal of adverse possession, when he claimed he had permission from an agent of the owner to be there.  You see, that claim acknowledges ownership.  IANAL.  His best chance to stay would be to fight eviction, and numerous potential bikers.
 
2014-04-25 04:25:11 PM

Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?


That's my point; the verbal/oral agreement is stupid, passe and should be abolished everywhere.
 
2014-04-25 04:25:19 PM
Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone.

Did a piss poor job of that.
 
2014-04-25 04:25:34 PM
I hate those "I've been serving my country" people.
 
2014-04-25 04:25:35 PM

walktoanarcade: I sure hope someone more war-like takes his place in the Army, that's for sure.


Yeah, Hawaii is a war zone.
 
2014-04-25 04:25:39 PM
Headso:  That sounds dangerous, how about just show up with a truck and run it all night with a hose going from the tailpipe in to a window of the home.

You take all the fun out of it. Plus, what am I going to do with the meat saws and field dressing kit that I bought now?
the bone saw adapter I made for the 18 volt Ryobi reciprocating saw is itching to see action.
 
2014-04-25 04:26:13 PM

hardinparamedic: lennavan: This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.

Uh, you do realize that the law considers them residents of the property, and had he done that, they would have been legally justified in shooting him the moment he kicked the door in and forced entry.

They would have been standing their ground against an attacker.


Only if they were actually residents.

It turns on whether they were actually given permission to stay on the property (duration is less important).  If they were either guests or tenants, then they are/were residents and have to be evicted even if the permissible period of residency is long up.  If they were never guests or tenants, they they were and are trespassing.

Assuming they were trespassing (and the facts seem to lean that way for sure), the real problem I see with lennavan's stand your ground strategy is that the whole thing falls apart if you go in with the intention of shooting them.

A much better strategy is to simply wait till they leave and then toss their stuff out and change the locks back.  If you're right and they aren't residents, they can't do anything, and if you're wrong, no one is being charged with murder, though you might be getting sued.
 
2014-04-25 04:27:14 PM

walktoanarcade: Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?

That's my point; the verbal/oral agreement is stupid, passe and should be abolished everywhere.


That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.
 
2014-04-25 04:27:37 PM

walktoanarcade: bunner: This is a very interesting exercise into the notions of what does and does not construe property ownership.

Disagree. I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

If there was an oral agreement, the cops would be very right to back off. They do not want to get sued and lose.   Since Florida law is stupid and leans towards the liars leaving the burden off "proof" upon the real homeowner to go to court and prove they own what they own.

You cannot legally in any way steal some else's home.


Um, nobody said you could. Only that there are applicable laws and a process has to be followed. Which, for those with legalistic minds, provides an interesting exercise in what Farker bunner said.

Or one could try your method, which seems to be "yell at clouds."
 
2014-04-25 04:28:44 PM

hardinparamedic: Gonz: But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.

As a side note, I hope his property taxes are all paid up.


Adverse possession of real property takes 30 years. A couple of years of back due property taxes won't change that, and I doubt the city would seize the property and sell it that quickly.
 
2014-04-25 04:29:04 PM

SauronWasFramed: duhmass


It's pronounced "Doo-Mah".

evilsquirrelsnest.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-25 04:29:30 PM

hardinparamedic: Mugato: Then without written documentation of that agreement, the burden would have to be on the squatter. Otherwise again, this would happen whenever someone finds out that a family is going away for a couple weeks.

It's a little more complicated than that, Mugato. In this case, it was more than simple break-in. They were living there - they had furniture and possessions there. More importantly, they had a working key to the house, and had been there more than a few days. They had a circumstantial case for tenancy and residency at that property.

This is the same reason why if I agreed to let you stay with me in exchange for working on my property that I can't just call the cops up and have you removed any time I want.


I think the whole "agreed to" thing is kind of an important distinction.
 
2014-04-25 04:29:41 PM

Gonz: walktoanarcade: You cannot legally in any way steal some else's home.

You vastly underestimate the power of the courts. Except, if you do it legally, you're not really "stealing" the home, because stealing implies illegal.

But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.


You're right, I do underestimate and yeah, I get your wording.

Still, it is not like the squatters say. You cannot legally take a home by doing what they did, unless that one lie they told was true, but it isn't. And then the poor homeowner has to pay to prove the truth of the matter in this farce of a justice system?  Damn.
 
2014-04-25 04:30:33 PM

URAPNIS: I hate those "I've been serving my country" people.


Why? Just because their opinion is worth four times everybody elses'?
 
2014-04-25 04:31:16 PM

hardinparamedic: brimed03: Yeah? So is rape

So, about last night....


gottdammit hp...
 
2014-04-25 04:31:44 PM

sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.


Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.
 
2014-04-25 04:32:46 PM

rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally?


Yes.  A contract is an agreement, not a piece of paper.  If I offer you five dollars for your toupee, and you say yes, that's a contract.
 
2014-04-25 04:33:18 PM

RightWingWacko: In the United States the Statute of Frauds require real estate contracts to be in writing to be enforceable.


mileage will vary given your jurisdiction.  Traditionally, the statute of frauds prevented leases for more than three years.

This is less than three years, and unless Florida has deviated from the traditional statue of frauds on this matter then an oral contract would be valid here.
 
2014-04-25 04:33:45 PM
Surprised ULAC didn't show up to grandstand and spout bullshiat.
Just Vote from the rooftops. Should only have to do it once, the survivor will get the message.
 
2014-04-25 04:33:55 PM
So Sharkey's friend who was overseeing the house never called police when he found two people inside of it?  Sounds like there was a verbal agreement of some sort, either that or Sharkey's friend never checked on the house.
 
2014-04-25 04:34:07 PM

mjones73: tricycleracer: Duke Energy crews came to the house to investigate how the squatters got electricity at the house.

Stealing a meter will get your ass arrested.

The homeowner probably never turned it off...


Maybe, but then what is there to investigate about a paid up account?
 
2014-04-25 04:34:53 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.


The same way you prove anything...witnesses and other forms of evidence, such as part performance.
 
2014-04-25 04:35:50 PM

Dimensio: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.


In florida he should probably have forced his way in, sat down, waited till one of them shouted at him then shot them both.
 
2014-04-25 04:35:53 PM

Nabb1: hardinparamedic: Gonz: But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.ate i

As a side note, I hope his property taxes are all paid up.

Adverse possession of real property takes 30 years. A couple of years of back due property taxes won't change that, and I doubt the city would seize the property and sell it that quickly.


In my state it's 20 years, but yeah, adverse possession takes some time along with open and notorious use.
 
2014-04-25 04:36:05 PM
Say, where's that Farker who has been proclaiming for the past week, that if nobody is using the property, anyone can use it?
 
2014-04-25 04:36:27 PM

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?

That's my point; the verbal/oral agreement is stupid, passe and should be abolished everywhere.

That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.


Dunna think so, laddy. It's so hard to print a receipt, and far harder to print up a short, small "contract."

Explain how oral agreements are needed or else commerce halts.  Or you talking about the sale itself "Wanna buy this?"   "Yes, I do, good, sir!" -that?
 
2014-04-25 04:37:17 PM

The_Sponge: Mark Ratner: I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day


If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.


Under the circumstances, I suspect that ship has already sailed.
 
2014-04-25 04:37:36 PM

hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law.



This is a common expression but how it is commonly used is horseshiat.

It originated from English Common Law and when it was said that possession is 9/10 of the law it meant that 90% of the laws on the books were related to determining possession of property, not that having possession of something gives you leverage when determining ownership.
 
2014-04-25 04:37:53 PM

brimed03: Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.

Yeah? So is rape.


This isn't about rape.
 
2014-04-25 04:37:59 PM
When will FOX News make the squatters their next heroes?
 
2014-04-25 04:38:25 PM

boinkingbill: So Sharkey's friend who was overseeing the house never called police when he found two people inside of it?  Sounds like there was a verbal agreement of some sort, either that or Sharkey's friend never checked on the house.


Am I the only one here who saw the name "Sharkey" and thought of this:

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com

Anybody?

*crickets*

/crap ... I'm old ...
 
2014-04-25 04:38:57 PM
If anything good can come out of this, I would like a D level, Troma-style film where at the climax our hero says "Here. Squat on this." and shoots one of the home invaders in the ass with a shotgun.
 
2014-04-25 04:39:53 PM

Rent Party: rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally?

Yes.  A contract is an agreement, not a piece of paper.  If I offer you five dollars for your toupee, and you say yes, that's a contract.


I think that's more free market commerce.

If the legal staff here on FARK would correct me, these are my assumptions

Retail commerce occurs within a common social contract that goods and services A are exchanged for remuneration or thing of value B and that's all sorted out and the government gets it's chare and every body f*cks off home.  Contracts are often reserved for business or real property acquisitions and transfers, mergers and loans or any sort of business wherein a given amount of capital or assets will remain extant or in play, and require proof of ownership, proof of contracted debt and interest and which need to state clearly any given terms.  These are usually for transactions where more than the cost of a stick of butter are in play.  And should be.  And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.   So, this whole fandango was dogsh*t and should have taken about two hours to remedy.

No?
 
2014-04-25 04:40:51 PM

walktoanarcade: sprgrss: walktoanarcade: Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?

That's my point; the verbal/oral agreement is stupid, passe and should be abolished everywhere.

That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Dunna think so, laddy. It's so hard to print a receipt, and far harder to print up a short, small "contract."

Explain how oral agreements are needed or else commerce halts.  Or you talking about the sale itself "Wanna buy this?"   "Yes, I do, good, sir!" -that?


A receipt isn't a contract.

A lot of commerce is conducted over the phone and in such a manner that waiting for a writing is not commercially reasonable.
 
2014-04-25 04:41:08 PM

Sgt Otter: Say, where's that Farker who has been proclaiming for the past week, that if nobody is using the property, anyone can use it?


We have our very own Sovereign Citizen?
 
2014-04-25 04:41:47 PM

KidneyStone: The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.

I'm pretty sure Florida got the tag from Palm Beach County and the "hanging chad" ballots from the 2000 election.

/I have lived in both Melbourne and Palm Bay
//In Melbourne I lived on East University Blvd, farther east than the fire station.  If you know the area you know why i shudder at those memories


I haven't been back since December 2004....Grandmother used to live in Palm Bay. After dealing with 2 hurricanes in '04, she move up here to Washington.
 
2014-04-25 04:42:28 PM

Nabb1: A couple of years of back due property taxes won't change that, and I doubt the city would seize the property and sell it that quickly.


Memphis used anything over five years as justification to seize the property when they did their last round of eminent domain roundups a few years back.
 
2014-04-25 04:43:16 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.


The courts will look at the behaviors of the two parties in relation to what each says the agreement was.  If you and I verbally contract to wash your car, and I don't do it, but I go out and buy a bucket and soap and sponges and a hawt new bikini, the court might conclude that there was an agreement and enforce it.
 
2014-04-25 04:43:31 PM

Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.


So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.

/if it does, do similar laws apply to other people? Can I just declare Kate Upton my wife and it's up to her to handle divorce proceedings? And until such time as the divorce comes through I get to do stuff???
 
2014-04-25 04:44:05 PM

Sgt Otter: Say, where's that Farker who has been proclaiming for the past week, that if nobody is using the property, anyone can use it?


He left a message for you:

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
 
2014-04-25 04:44:15 PM

sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.

The same way you prove anything...witnesses and other forms of evidence, such as part performance.


Well, here's hoping someone doesn't claim they made an oral contract with me and has a friend to back him up because the law is completely retarded on this issue.
 
2014-04-25 04:44:21 PM
Wasn't this an episode of "Teabagger Theater"?
 
2014-04-25 04:45:01 PM

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: sprgrss: walktoanarcade: Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?

That's my point; the verbal/oral agreement is stupid, passe and should be abolished everywhere.

That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Dunna think so, laddy. It's so hard to print a receipt, and far harder to print up a short, small "contract."

Explain how oral agreements are needed or else commerce halts.  Or you talking about the sale itself "Wanna buy this?"   "Yes, I do, good, sir!" -that?

A receipt isn't a contract.

A lot of commerce is conducted over the phone and in such a manner that waiting for a writing is not commercially reasonable.


You didn't follow. Small contracts can be printed as easily and onto receipt paper.

And the phone?  Like that isn't recorded? I'm not talking about the latest news headlines, I mean, reputable business routinely monitor phone calls.

If it's done over the phone nowadays, be rested assured it's stored(the conversation) somewhere,
 
2014-04-25 04:46:16 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.

The same way you prove anything...witnesses and other forms of evidence, such as part performance.

Well, here's hoping someone doesn't claim they made an oral contract with me and has a friend to back him up because the law is completely retarded on this issue.


And heaven forfend someone forge your signature.
 
2014-04-25 04:47:22 PM

Scrotastic Method: Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.

So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.


You ignored the "established residence" part. There are guidelines in different municipalities that determine what this is but generally cops will say "Do they stay here? Do they get their mail here? Then you have to evict them."

This is so that domestic disputes don't result in people becoming instantly homeless because Billy-Bob uses "Well then git outta my trailer" as leverage to keep BettySue from breaking up with his abusive ass.
 
2014-04-25 04:48:13 PM

The_Sponge: KidneyStone: The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.

I'm pretty sure Florida got the tag from Palm Beach County and the "hanging chad" ballots from the 2000 election.

/I have lived in both Melbourne and Palm Bay
//In Melbourne I lived on East University Blvd, farther east than the fire station.  If you know the area you know why i shudder at those memories

I haven't been back since December 2004....Grandmother used to live in Palm Bay. After dealing with 2 hurricanes in '04, she move up here to Washington.


I moved from Palm Bay to South Florida in 92.  Ya know, when Andrew hit.  And was still living there in 04 when Jeanne and Frances hit.  And don't get me started on the biatch Wilma, although I like being able to say I've been in the eye of a Cat 3.
 
2014-04-25 04:49:18 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: That is patently retarded.  Commerce would come to a stand still if every contract had to be reduced to a writing.

Well how could an unrecorded oral contract possibly be proven or enforced? And don't tell me witnesses. I have friends that say under oath that Scarlet Johanson and I got into an "oral" contract.

The same way you prove anything...witnesses and other forms of evidence, such as part performance.

Well, here's hoping someone doesn't claim they made an oral contract with me and has a friend to back him up because the law is completely retarded on this issue.


This is why written contracts are superior, but judges aren't completely stupid.

"Your honor, we had a verbal contract where he said I could live in his house for a dollar a week, my brother was witness!" probably wouldn't stand up.
 
2014-04-25 04:49:20 PM

walktoanarcade: You didn't follow. Small contracts can be printed as easily and onto receipt paper.

And the phone?  Like that isn't recorded? I'm not talking about the latest news headlines, I mean, reputable business routinely monitor phone calls.

If it's done over the phone nowadays, be rested assured it's stored(the conversation) somewhere,


Receipts aren't contracts and receipts are only provided after a contract has been entered into.

And not all businesses record their phone conversations.

Say for instance you operate a plumbing business and you are on site and need a bastard coupling.  You call up your parts supplier and order one.  Your parts supplier sends it over to you.  No writing is necessary, not to mention that the receipt wouldn't qualify as a written contract since it isn't signed by both parties.

Or how about this, you call up to order a pizza.  Should the pizza should first have to send a person over to your house to get you to sign a written contract before the pizza place starts making your pizza?

Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts
 
2014-04-25 04:49:24 PM

bunner: Rent Party: rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally?

Yes.  A contract is an agreement, not a piece of paper.  If I offer you five dollars for your toupee, and you say yes, that's a contract.

I think that's more free market commerce.

If the legal staff here on FARK would correct me, these are my assumptions

Retail commerce occurs within a common social contract that goods and services A are exchanged for remuneration or thing of value B and that's all sorted out and the government gets it's chare and every body f*cks off home.  Contracts are often reserved for business or real property acquisitions and transfers, mergers and loans or any sort of business wherein a given amount of capital or assets will remain extant or in play, and require proof of ownership, proof of contracted debt and interest and which need to state clearly any given terms.  These are usually for transactions where more than the cost of a stick of butter are in play.  And should be.  And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.   So, this whole fandango was dogsh*t and should have taken about two hours to remedy.

No?


No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.
 
2014-04-25 04:49:44 PM
Know some good carpet cleaners. They deep clean carpets really well!

Squatters can die a slow & painful death. fark them, even more so if they drag their rotten crotchfruit into it.
 
2014-04-25 04:52:01 PM

walktoanarcade: hardinparamedic: I'm not saying he's not right, or that he shouldn't be able to. What I am saying is that the law would be completely on their side if what you suggest actually went down.

I know you're not defending the squatters.

If he didn't call the cops(who in then turn made an official note of it) he could have brutally fixed the situation, was my point.That's what I'd expect any thinking and effective warrior to do anyway.

I do agree fully that if he broke in, owning to Florida's bad laws, they most likely would have walked had they pumped him full o' lead.   My guess is that they may have stood a worse chance against him, but thn again his neutered actions suggest otherwise.

I sure hope someone more war-like takes his place in the Army, that's for sure.


Don't they take an oath to defend the Constitution, the United States, and it's laws?
 
2014-04-25 04:52:05 PM

Scrotastic Method: Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.

So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.

/if it does, do similar laws apply to other people? Can I just declare Kate Upton my wife and it's up to her to handle divorce proceedings? And until such time as the divorce comes through I get to do stuff???


In FL,  if they got utilities, DL, Official mail (bank statements, bills, et al) or registered to vote/vehicle at that address, then that is enough to estabilsh domicile, and eviction has to be done through court  a quick and dirty summarry of Florida Statue §196.015.

I had to deal with it when my records got confused with my father's, and I was listed as dead about a year after he died when I was stationed in Hawaii.  That was a Headache and two halves.
 
2014-04-25 04:52:40 PM

bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.


This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.
 
2014-04-25 04:55:04 PM

lokis_mentor: Scrotastic Method: So if I just declare that someone is now my landlord, that makes it so? I can just walk into any structure, declare into the void that I'm a tenant, and the only way to get to me to leave is through civil proceedings? That's not how it works.

/if it does, do similar laws apply to other people? Can I just declare Kate Upton my wife and it's up to her to handle divorce proceedings? And until such time as the divorce comes through I get to do stuff???

In FL,  if they got utilities, DL, Official mail (bank statements, bills, et al) or registered to vote/vehicle at that address, then that is enough to estabilsh domicile, and eviction has to be done through court  a quick and dirty summarry of Florida Statue §196.015.

I had to deal with it when my records got confused with my father's, and I was listed as dead about a year after he died when I was stationed in Hawaii.  That was a Headache and two halves.


So what you're saying is...if I send open a bank account in Kate Upton's name and have the statements sent to me in Florida, I'm legally allowed to touch her boobies? Excellent.
 
2014-04-25 04:55:56 PM

sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts


Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.
 
2014-04-25 04:56:06 PM
Big time liberal here.
If this happened to me, the squatters would not be living there one way or another.
Either they would be gone or not living.
 
2014-04-25 04:56:37 PM
He should have just called exterminators.  Might as well do your termite tenting when none of your own stuff is in the house!
 
2014-04-25 04:58:35 PM

Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.


Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.
 
2014-04-25 04:58:41 PM

ThreadSinger: interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons


Brilliant!
 
2014-04-25 04:58:56 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts

Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.


But they are valid oral contracts.
 
2014-04-25 04:59:53 PM

bunner: Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.

Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.


"Market commerce" is a verb.  "Contracts" are a noun that complete the subject/object relationship.  :)
 
2014-04-25 05:00:58 PM

sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.


Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?
 
2014-04-25 05:01:40 PM

Rent Party: bunner: Rent Party: No.  Contracts have very specific criteria to be considered valid.  They are (summarizing here) an agreement between consenting parties and the exchange of consideration.   In my example,  I'm buying your wig for $5.   That's the agreement.  I'm competent to enter into the agreement as are you.  You receive consideration of $5 and I receive consideration of your nasty assed hair piece.

Check.  That seems to be nothig more than market commerce, but.. check.

"Market commerce" is a verb.  "Contracts" are a noun that complete the subject/object relationship.  :)


Hmmm
 
2014-04-25 05:02:12 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts

Your examples aren't what anyone is talking about.


They are just a minor example of how commerce functions with oral contracts
 
2014-04-25 05:03:02 PM

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.  That's why the law has developed to protect tenants.
 
2014-04-25 05:03:32 PM

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


yes, but thats why an eviction ruling would be very easy to obtain. it doesn't mean you don't have to get one.
 
2014-04-25 05:03:43 PM

bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?


It isn't a legal requirement for a tenant to have either. Once someone has established residency you have to follow legal steps to remove them.
 
2014-04-25 05:04:56 PM
Bunch of muscle-bound hairy dudes in ski masks show up at night, bundle filthy thieving squatters into a van with a muddy plate and give them a nice ride to a dirt road waaaay outside of town. Strip them nude (yes, including shoes), place their hands on the van bumper and apply baseball bat liberally directly to fingers. Drive off, taking their clothes and identification and pitching them out the window in pieces over the next 30 minutes while driving away from the city of residence. Double back, move into home and start cleanup. I can assure you that squatters will be keeping a really low profile if this becomes the norm.
 
2014-04-25 05:05:18 PM

sprgrss: You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.


Ohhhh, not really.  :  /

tlchwi02:
yes, but thats why an eviction ruling would be very easy to obtain. it doesn't mean you don't have to get one.

Check.
 
2014-04-25 05:06:05 PM

sprgrss: bunner: sprgrss: bunner: And all you should have to do to evict felons from your home is to produce a deed title with your name on it.

This would work great if there weren't such things as tenants.

Don't tenants usually have rent receipts or at least a landlord who isn't standing at the precinct front desk accusing them of breaking and entering?

You'd be surprised how some landlords act toward tenants.  That's why the law has developed to protect tenants.


As a landlord let me tell you there are horror story tenants too.

Current one is a dream, "If I go buy some fertilizer and stuff for the yard will you reimburse me? I would like to do some work in the back yard. "Sure spend less than $150 and send me the receipts so I can write them off."
 
2014-04-25 05:06:52 PM

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: You didn't follow. Small contracts can be printed as easily and onto receipt paper.

And the phone?  Like that isn't recorded? I'm not talking about the latest news headlines, I mean, reputable business routinely monitor phone calls.

If it's done over the phone nowadays, be rested assured it's stored(the conversation) somewhere,

Receipts aren't contracts and receipts are only provided after a contract has been entered into.

And not all businesses record their phone conversations.

Say for instance you operate a plumbing business and you are on site and need a bastard coupling.  You call up your parts supplier and order one.  Your parts supplier sends it over to you.  No writing is necessary, not to mention that the receipt wouldn't qualify as a written contract since it isn't signed by both parties.

Or how about this, you call up to order a pizza.  Should the pizza should first have to send a person over to your house to get you to sign a written contract before the pizza place starts making your pizza?

Society has managed to function quite well with oral contracts


*sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.


tl;dr? We both win the prize~!
 
2014-04-25 05:07:43 PM
I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.
 
2014-04-25 05:08:24 PM

hardinparamedic: Mugato: hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned

There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.

The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.


Please show me a piece of paper with some kind of agreement to that affect. Baring that, gtfo.
 
2014-04-25 05:09:51 PM

walktoanarcade: *sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.


I operate a widget manufacturing plant.

You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?
 
2014-04-25 05:11:19 PM

walktoanarcade: Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection. 

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.


Those are prime examples of oral contracts and the caller ID isn't a written contract.  It's just proof that I called you.  Plus you are assuming
 
2014-04-25 05:11:54 PM
that every place has caller ID just because you want them to.
 
2014-04-25 05:12:14 PM
They should go into business.  Veteran Trash Removal Services.
 
2014-04-25 05:13:17 PM

walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.


That's an oral contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:13:49 PM
I have that.  It lets me know when spammers are trying to sell me things.  The v-mail is always on.  And I have not answered my phone personally for more than 3 out of the last 200 calls.  *sigh*
 
2014-04-25 05:14:04 PM
img.photobucket.com

"Compliments of Sharkey!"
 
2014-04-25 05:14:52 PM

Danger Avoid Death: boinkingbill: So Sharkey's friend who was overseeing the house never called police when he found two people inside of it?  Sounds like there was a verbal agreement of some sort, either that or Sharkey's friend never checked on the house.

Am I the only one here who saw the name "Sharkey" and thought of this:

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 480x360]

Anybody?

*crickets*

/crap ... I'm old ...



Hahaha!

That was before my time....but am a fan of Mr. Warmth.

/Seen him perform twice.
 
2014-04-25 05:15:57 PM

bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.


Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.
 
2014-04-25 05:19:36 PM

Sgt Otter: Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


True.  Then again, what blithering idiot hands the keys over to a property of a friend for some nebulous promise of "improvements and maintenance"?  There's a reason house sitters cost money and are vetted like federal agents before they move in.  Oh, and there's a contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:19:39 PM

sprgrss: You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?


You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:21 PM
Arrived hoping for the Jim Varney episode of 'The Simpsons'...

Leaving very happy.

/Well, as happy as I can get these days.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:58 PM

Sgt Otter: bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.

Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


That only protects you against the person whom you have the contract with.  Not the good faith sublessor.

Point is, Cops aren't going to get involved absent a court order when there is someone who is domiciled at the location.
 
2014-04-25 05:20:59 PM

The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.


My Aunt moved from Seattle to Melbourne and tell tales of all the insanity.
 
2014-04-25 05:21:08 PM

jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.


Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.
 
2014-04-25 05:22:18 PM

payattention: /Well, as happy as I can get these days.


:  /

:  \

:  |


www.trinitypullman.org
 
2014-04-25 05:22:33 PM
Mugato: sprgrss: You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?

You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  You stated oral contracts should be abolished.  I said that would grind commerce to a halt. You then wanted examples.

At no point have you made yourself clear as to what you mean other than to emphatically state that oral contracts should be abolished.

Methinks you don't understand what a contract is.
 
2014-04-25 05:24:30 PM

walktoanarcade: jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.

Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.


It's an oral contract just like any other oral contract.  It's a meeting of the minds between two competent parties and there is consideration.

It's but an example of an oral contract.  An oral contract that under the "abolish oral contracts" regime would not be able to happen and thus commerce and ease of life are negatively effected.
 
2014-04-25 05:24:49 PM
Incidentally, "Pizza Contract" would make an OK Fark handle.

Bathroom Stall Litigation comes a close second.  heh
 
2014-04-25 05:25:07 PM

walktoanarcade: jst3p: walktoanarcade: If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

That's an oral contract.

Does anyone say they contracted with a pizza developer to build a pie in their stomach? No? Ok then.

It's a joke of an "oral contract" if you want to call it that.


Your opinion does not change the fact that it is an example of an oral contract.
 
2014-04-25 05:25:27 PM

sprgrss: You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  You stated oral contracts should be abolished.  I said that would grind commerce to a halt. You then wanted examples.

At no point have you made yourself clear as to what you mean other than to emphatically state that oral contracts should be abolished.

Methinks you don't understand what a contract is.


Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.
 
2014-04-25 05:26:27 PM

Mugato: Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.


Then what in the fark are you talking about?
 
2014-04-25 05:27:13 PM
Did I stumble into chapter three of "Starship Troopers"?
 
2014-04-25 05:28:16 PM
sprgrss
It's a sexy oral contract just like any other oral contract, but needs coaxing.  It's a meeting of like-minded stoners, one supplying the munchies, the other the monies.

Finally you make sense.
 
2014-04-25 05:28:35 PM
Guys?  Seriously.
 
2014-04-25 05:29:00 PM
 
2014-04-25 05:29:19 PM
How come we cannot get our "representatives" in Washington DC to create a law that bans this sort of squatting BS? Must we wait till some billionaire gets their mansion squatted before things will actually start to happen?
 
2014-04-25 05:29:30 PM

Nabb1: hardinparamedic: Gonz: But there are most certainly ways to gain ownership of a piece of property without paying anything other than court costs.

As a side note, I hope his property taxes are all paid up.

Adverse possession of real property takes 30 years. A couple of years of back due property taxes won't change that, and I doubt the city would seize the property and sell it that quickly.


In Florida, it's only 7 years, open and notorious.

/Got a 136.1 on the FL bar.  Wish I didn't waste my time learning that extra .1
 
2014-04-25 05:29:41 PM
A few grenades through the windows would get him out pretty quick.
 
2014-04-25 05:29:49 PM
If it'll help, I 'll post more cookies and milk.  I want to be happy today.  Help me out.  Free virtual cookies!
 
2014-04-25 05:30:05 PM

kling_klang_bed: While they're peacefully kicking out squatters:

[a57.foxnews.com image 850x478]


Didn't this dude just implode about "the new sheriff"? Or some such... I believe the Teabaggers have already left him in the dust, lest they be outed.
 
2014-04-25 05:31:24 PM

sprgrss: Mugato: Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.

Then what in the fark are you talking about?


Something that pertains to the farking article. Large, important contractual agreements that are normally drawn up on paper. An oral agreement should not be sufficient for things like property or agreements on major services or jobs, I wasn't talking about ordering a farking pizza.
 
2014-04-25 05:31:31 PM

TV's Vinnie: Must we wait till some billionaire gets their mansion squatted before things will actually start to happen?


Yes.  But it will only happen for him.  The serfs will still need baseball bats and months of profitable litigation to keep their homes.
 
2014-04-25 05:31:59 PM
Too bad he called the police. He could have just walked into the house, waited for the people to face him, shot them, THEN called the police and said the pieces of shiat said they were going to kill him and moved towards him menacingly. And I would be 100% OK with that. If you don't want to get shot, stay off of other people's property. It's a super easy rule to live by.
 
2014-04-25 05:33:22 PM

special20: kling_klang_bed: While they're peacefully kicking out squatters:

[a57.foxnews.com image 850x478]

Didn't this dude just implode about "the new sheriff"? Or some such... I believe the Teabaggers have already left him in the dust, lest they be outed.


No clue on that one.
Just when you think a person living out in the middle of nowhere in Nevada couldn't get any lonelier, here he comes.
 
2014-04-25 05:34:05 PM

That Guy Jeff: Too bad he called the police. He could have just walked into the house, waited for the people to face him, shot them, THEN called the police and said the pieces of shiat said they were going to kill him and moved towards him menacingly. And I would be 100% OK with that. If you don't want to get shot, stay off of other people's property. It's a super easy rule to live by.


Just don't record yourself and before putting the final fatal shot in them say "Oh, your gonna die!"
 
2014-04-25 05:34:11 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: Actually I never used the word abolished, that was the other guy. And yes I know what a contract is and I know you know your examples aren't what I was talking about.

Then what in the fark are you talking about?

Something that pertains to the farking article. Large, important contractual agreements that are normally drawn up on paper. An oral agreement should not be sufficient for things like property or agreements on major services or jobs, I wasn't talking about ordering a farking pizza.


Have you ever heard of the Statue of Frauds?

But I'm glad we've got ambiguous terms like major services or jobs.  The fact of the matter is the majority of contracts in this world are oral contracts.  That includes "major services or jobs" too.

Your rule would grind commerce to a halt

But keep moving those goalposts.
 
2014-04-25 05:35:59 PM

Inchoate: a TENET is a central premise of a belief system.

a TENANT is somebody consensually renting or occupying a place they don't own.

Brought to you by an INCHOATE, somebody who wants to stop twitching while reading this thread. ;)


Tennant is a very popular actor
 
2014-04-25 05:36:18 PM

sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.


I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.
 
2014-04-25 05:37:37 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.

I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.


abolish oral contracts, but wait, not that type, or this type, or that type over there.  Only those types that aren't already valid in the first place.

But no, I've remained consistent.
 
2014-04-25 05:37:38 PM

Mugato: walktoanarcade: I think it's more about Florida's ridiculous laws concerning verbal/oral agreements.

How do you prove an oral agreement unless it's recorded?


orally if you know what i'm saying
 
2014-04-25 05:39:21 PM

KidneyStone: I moved from Palm Bay to South Florida in 92. Ya know, when Andrew hit. And was still living there in 04 when Jeanne and Frances hit. And don't get me started on the biatch Wilma, although I like being able to say I've been in the eye of a Cat 3.



Yikes!

Ah....thanks for naming the two that hit in 2004....I forgot the names.

CSB:

After the first one hit, my Dad flew down to help out the the insurance and home repairs.  When the second one was aiming for Florida, I remember talking to him on the phone and saying that he was going to delay the flight home (for obvious reasons).

/Said it sounded like a train was right outside.
 
2014-04-25 05:39:29 PM
Couldn't he have just shot them both and said he was "standing his ground in his own house"?
 
2014-04-25 05:43:36 PM

sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?

You're still talking about buying shiat. You have to be being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  You stated oral contracts should be abolished.  I said that would grind commerce to a halt. You then wanted examples.

At no point have you made yourself clear as to what you mean other than to emphatically state that oral contracts should be abolished.

Methinks you don't understand what a contract is.


Grind commerce to a halt?
No, we have fax machines, order forms, hell even emails.
 
2014-04-25 05:44:17 PM

The_Sponge: meat0918: On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner. Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Really?  The "menacing" is geared towards pieces of garbage, not an innocent couple.

/Never had to deal with squatters.
//But it was shiatty enough when I had to kick out a person who was renting a room from me and stopped paying rent.


According to a plurality of the nation *I* am a "piece of garbage" because I am not part of the "right" religion.  Not too long ago the people living down the street from me were "pieces of garbage" for having the wrong color skin for this neighborhood.

Hot-blooded vigilantism is fun, quick, and easy, but it erodes the structure of a nation of laws.

Sgt Otter: bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.

Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.


I was house-sitting for a friend for a week and my thoughts often turned to, "what to do when the police start questioning the stranger (me) who doesn't live here?"
 
2014-04-25 05:44:20 PM

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: *sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.

I operate a widget manufacturing plant.

You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?


Not a lawyer, not previously part of this particular conversation, but I'm going to go ahead and chime in anyway: if you and I are already on the basis such that you could call me up and order 10k of my widgets, we've probably already got a standing business relationship, wherein you probably already did sign a contract that specified a credit limit ("you can order up to 100,000 widgets at a time") and payment terms ("you will pay me for any widgets you order within 30 days"). If we don't have that agreement in place already, then, yes, I will wait till we have something in writing, or you have already paid me in advance.
 
2014-04-25 05:46:51 PM

the cake is a pie: Not a lawyer, not previously part of this particular conversation, but I'm going to go ahead and chime in anyway: if you and I are already on the basis such that you could call me up and order 10k of my widgets, we've probably already got a standing business relationship, wherein you probably already did sign a contract that specified a credit limit ("you can order up to 100,000 widgets at a time") and payment terms ("you will pay me for any widgets you order within 30 days"). If we don't have that agreement in place already, then, yes, I will wait till we have something in writing, or you have already paid me in advance.


Not an enforceable contract because the terms aren't definite enough, as in I don't know how many widgets to produce and when
 
2014-04-25 05:48:52 PM

Smackledorfer: Grind commerce to a halt?
No, we have fax machines, order forms, hell even emails.


Despite all that, the majority of commercial contracts are oral contracts and performance begins prior to it being reduced to a writing.

Not to mention that any time you but anything from a store, you are entering into an oral contract.  Every time you order a beer, you are entering into an oral contract.  If all oral contracts had to be reduced to a writing, then yes, commerce would come to a halt.
 
2014-04-25 05:49:40 PM

Dimensio: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.

why would he want that sh*t hole back anyway. it looks like a crack house (and is).
I'm sure he has insurance. go back late one night when these clowns are passed out, and burn the b*tch to the ground. you think if Spec. whatever is name was didn't raise a stink, the cops have better things to do then investigate the death of 2 crack head ex-con squatters.
BAM! new house is already renovated!
everybody wins!

 
2014-04-25 05:51:16 PM

hardinparamedic: lennavan: This is Florida and Florida has Stand Your Ground laws.  A perfectly lawful solution would have been for the soldier to break down his own front door, because it's his door and he can do with it what he wants, and in finding intruders in his home, so he goes right ahead and stands his ground.

Uh, you do realize that the law considers them residents of the property, and had he done that, they would have been legally justified in shooting him the moment he kicked the door in and forced entry.

They would have been standing their ground against an attacker.


The legal papers however say that the guy coming home owned the property
 
2014-04-25 05:55:23 PM

TheBigJerk: According to a plurality of the nation *I* am a "piece of garbage" because I am not part of the "right" religion. Not too long ago the people living down the street from me were "pieces of garbage" for having the wrong color skin for this neighborhood.

Hot-blooded vigilantism is fun, quick, and easy, but it erodes the structure of a nation of laws.



When I call somebody a piece of garbage, it's due to the "content of their character", and not the color of their skin.

But by all means, keep spouting off nonsense.
 
2014-04-25 05:55:23 PM

sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.

I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.

abolish oral contracts, but wait, not that type, or this type, or that type over there.  Only those types that aren't already valid in the first place.

But no, I've remained consistent.


I never said Goddamn "abolish" Jesus Christ.
 
2014-04-25 05:55:30 PM
...and this is why, if you're going to rent out your house while you're away, you A) find someone responsible to be the landlord, B) you insist on getting a written lease, C) you insist on a credit check and/or security deposit from all prospective tenants, and D) give the tenants the notice to vacate required by law before you move back in.

BTW, for anyone in Florida, the forms are available here.  It's law, not rocket science.
 
2014-04-25 05:55:50 PM

sprgrss: Every time you order a beer, you are entering into an oral contract.


I wish all girls thought that way.
 
2014-04-25 05:56:50 PM

sprgrss: Sgt Otter: bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.

Yeah, asking someone to watch your place for TWO YEARS, he should have set up some sort of lease, or limited power of attorney.  I'm not sure exactly what the cops would have wanted, but perhaps a "I will not sublet the property without the express written permission of the owner" might have helped.

That only protects you against the person whom you have the contract with.  Not the good faith sublessor.

Point is, Cops aren't going to get involved absent a court order when there is someone who is domiciled at the location.


Actually it does.  Well okay I know it has in some states.  There was a case on fark a while back where some guy sub-let houses he owned.  Problem is he had also mortgaged those properties, and when the bills became too much he ran out with the money.  A family who had put 6 months rent in was kicked out after 1 month because, "fark you, your agreement is with the other guy and the house is ours now."

The problem is that there are NO agreements in this story, (at least, nothing documented) so the only things that are certain are that the squatters have lived there (maybe legally, maybe not, again, no documents) and the owner now wants to evict them.  And since legally requiring documentation of lease and rental agreements be filed with the state is a job-killing, people-strangling, evil federal government over-reach regulation, the police have to walk away until a court order shows up.

It is the same as the challenges to getting a warrant if the cops know crimes are being committed but have no proof.  Except there is less payoff because "squatters evicted" isn't a number or statistic that anyone cares about in or around the law-enforcement career track.
 
2014-04-25 05:57:43 PM

Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.

I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.

abolish oral contracts, but wait, not that type, or this type, or that type over there.  Only those types that aren't already valid in the first place.

But no, I've remained consistent. 

I never said Goddamn "abolish" Jesus Christ.


In as many words you did.
 
2014-04-25 05:59:20 PM

peacheslatour: The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.

My Aunt moved from Seattle to Melbourne and tell tales of all the insanity.



Ha!  To tell the truth, I never saw anything crazy there.....but I have seen plenty of wild news stories coming from those two towns.

Now when she lived in Hollywood, FL and owned an apartment complex in a bad neighborhood, the craziness was all around her.....and I only saw a small sample of it.
 
2014-04-25 06:00:07 PM

The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.


Florida has its own tag because FLORIDA.
 
2014-04-25 06:08:01 PM

TheBigJerk: According to a plurality of the nation *I* am a "piece of garbage" because I am not part of the "right" religion.



Bronyism?
 
2014-04-25 06:08:07 PM

The_Sponge: TheBigJerk: According to a plurality of the nation *I* am a "piece of garbage" because I am not part of the "right" religion. Not too long ago the people living down the street from me were "pieces of garbage" for having the wrong color skin for this neighborhood.

Hot-blooded vigilantism is fun, quick, and easy, but it erodes the structure of a nation of laws.


When I call somebody a piece of garbage, it's due to the "content of their character", and not the color of their skin.

But by all means, keep spouting off nonsense.


Are you everybody?

I wasn't talking about YOUR personal standards or even arguing these people aren't "garbage (they are).  My point, which seems to have sailed far over your angry, hair-trigger head is that rule of men, rule of "I think he's a piece of garbage so that's that," is in direct opposition to the rule of law.  A majority of Americans are bigoted jerks willing to write off decent people for shiatty reasons, whether or not you're one of them doesn't change the fact that "mob justice" tends inevitably towards being unjust.
 
2014-04-25 06:09:21 PM

washington-babylon: Bunch of muscle-bound hairy dudes in ski masks show up at night, bundle filthy thieving squatters into a van with a muddy plate and give them a nice ride to a dirt road waaaay outside of town. Strip them nude (yes, including shoes), place their hands on the van bumper and apply baseball bat liberally directly to fingers. Drive off, taking their clothes and identification and pitching them out the window in pieces over the next 30 minutes while driving away from the city of residence. Double back, move into home and start cleanup. I can assure you that squatters will be keeping a really low profile if this becomes the norm.


AND THEN THEY HAVE TO SLIDE DOWN A SLIDE MADE OF RAZOR BLADES INTO A POOL OF LEMON JUICE AND THEN BATMAN PEE-PEES ON THEN AND SOME OF IT GOES IN THEIR MOUTH

Are you 9 years old?
 
2014-04-25 06:11:54 PM

TV's Vinnie: How come we cannot get our "representatives" in Washington DC to create a law that bans this sort of squatting BS? Must we wait till some billionaire gets their mansion squatted before things will actually start to happen?


No, you do what this guy did. You contact a few friends and you politely make it known that you're no longer welcome in his home. If they insist on staying, then just make yourself at home with them. I mean after all, you're here, why can't I be?
 
2014-04-25 06:13:46 PM

TheBigJerk: I wasn't talking about YOUR personal standards or even arguing these people aren't "garbage (they are). My point, which seems to have sailed far over your angry, hair-trigger head is that rule of men, rule of "I think he's a piece of garbage so that's that," is in direct opposition to the rule of law. A majority of Americans are bigoted jerks willing to write off decent people for shiatty reasons, whether or not you're one of them doesn't change the fact that "mob justice" tends inevitably towards being unjust.



At yet you felt the need to bring up something that has nothing to do with the situation at hand.  Do me a favor and save your previous verbiage for a thread that calls for it....like a story involving a hate crime.
 
2014-04-25 06:15:49 PM

poot_rootbeer: AND THEN BATMAN PEE-PEES ON THEN AND SOME OF IT GOES IN THEIR MOUTH



Fark is not your personal erotica site.

/I chuckled.
 
2014-04-25 06:23:18 PM

sprgrss: Smackledorfer: Grind commerce to a halt?
No, we have fax machines, order forms, hell even emails.

Despite all that, the majority of commercial contracts are oral contracts and performance begins prior to it being reduced to a writing.

Not to mention that any time you but anything from a store, you are entering into an oral contract.  Every time you order a beer, you are entering into an oral contract.  If all oral contracts had to be reduced to a writing, then yes, commerce would come to a halt.


I don't think you understand the words you type.

Or I am underestimating your penchant for hyperbole.

I am not in favor of abolishing oral contracts, but what you are saying is pants on head retarded.

A simple bill printing and signing step would easily counter the grinding halt of restaurant/bar commerce you predict. The diner could still pay at the end of the meal.

Buying groceries is absolutely not an oral contract. I get a receipt every time, I see the scan amounts, and either parry can walk away from the transaction prior to the exchange of money for goods.
 
2014-04-25 06:25:56 PM

sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.

I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.

abolish oral contracts, but wait, not that type, or this type, or that type over there.  Only those types that aren't already valid in the first place.

But no, I've remained consistent. 

I never said Goddamn "abolish" Jesus Christ.

In as many words you did.


Can you not at least accept that you and he are having communication issues and accept his clear statement here?

Jfc.
 
2014-04-25 06:29:42 PM

Smackledorfer: sprgrss: Smackledorfer: Grind commerce to a halt?
No, we have fax machines, order forms, hell even emails.

Despite all that, the majority of commercial contracts are oral contracts and performance begins prior to it being reduced to a writing.

Not to mention that any time you but anything from a store, you are entering into an oral contract.  Every time you order a beer, you are entering into an oral contract.  If all oral contracts had to be reduced to a writing, then yes, commerce would come to a halt.

I don't think you understand the words you type.

Or I am underestimating your penchant for hyperbole.

I am not in favor of abolishing oral contracts, but what you are saying is pants on head retarded.

A simple bill printing and signing step would easily counter the grinding halt of restaurant/bar commerce you predict. The diner could still pay at the end of the meal.

Buying groceries is absolutely not an oral contract. I get a receipt every time, I see the scan amounts, and either parry can walk away from the transaction prior to the exchange of money for goods.


That's but one small instance.  You call it pants on head retarded, but I don't think you understand how ubiquitous oral contracts are in our day-to-day lives that the elimination of which would result in such a radical change that life would be come nearly impossible.
 
2014-04-25 06:31:36 PM

Smackledorfer: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: Mugato: sprgrss: But keep moving those goalposts.

I didn't move shiat, I've been completely consistent.

abolish oral contracts, but wait, not that type, or this type, or that type over there.  Only those types that aren't already valid in the first place.
oBut no, I've remained consistent. 

I never said Goddamn "abolish" Jesus Christ.

In as many words you did.

Can you not at least accept that you and he are having communication issues and accept his clear statement here?

Jfc.


Because I've seen what he's written in regards to oral contracts.

If I go through life arguing with everyone who claims the sky is blue, but never utter the words, "the sky is not blue" would you then so blindly accept my protestations that I never said the sky wasn't blue?
 
2014-04-25 06:31:58 PM
So other than shooting unarmed americans and their dogs, what "good" are police again?
 
2014-04-25 06:42:19 PM

sprgrss: Smackledorfer: sprgrss: Smackledorfer: Grind commerce to a halt?
No, we have fax machines, order forms, hell even emails.

Despite all that, the majority of commercial contracts are oral contracts and performance begins prior to it being reduced to a writing.

Not to mention that any time you but anything from a store, you are entering into an oral contract.  Every time you order a beer, you are entering into an oral contract.  If all oral contracts had to be reduced to a writing, then yes, commerce would come to a halt.

I don't think you understand the words you type.

Or I am underestimating your penchant for hyperbole.

I am not in favor of abolishing oral contracts, but what you are saying is pants on head retarded.

A simple bill printing and signing step would easily counter the grinding halt of restaurant/bar commerce you predict. The diner could still pay at the end of the meal.

Buying groceries is absolutely not an oral contract. I get a receipt every time, I see the scan amounts, and either parry can walk away from the transaction prior to the exchange of money for goods.

That's but one small instance.  You call it pants on head retarded, but I don't think you understand how ubiquitous oral contracts are in our day-to-day lives that the elimination of which would result in such a radical change that life would be come nearly impossible.


First, you made those examples, not me. Don't tell me now that they don't count. Perhaps you should pick better examples to support your claim.

Second, nearly impossible? Again no.

We have very efficient and effective options to quickly apply standardized written, recorded, or electronic contracts.

Do you think a law altering or abolishing oral contracts would come into being in the blink of an eye with no warning? That is an absurdity.

Even with something like renting my old house it took a minimal amount of effort to print up a standard rental agreement.

Finally, to repeat myself, I am not in favor of eliminating oral contracts. I am simoly telling you that your hyperbole is ridiculous and your examples supporting said hyperbole don't hold up.
 
2014-04-25 06:54:00 PM
On another point, if you will be away from your property, wouldn't it be better to have a realtor take supervision? I understand some provide that service. Might prevent another nightmare--contractors with a demolition order tearing down the wrong place.
 
2014-04-25 06:58:20 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: They should go into business.  Veteran Trash Removal Services.


They kind of are.  The two MCs involved have committed to cleaning the place up.  The original news story showed a fairly normal, clean home and the assholes trashed it.

A lot of people hate bikers because reasons but we are a generous lot.
 
2014-04-25 06:58:23 PM

Smackledorfer: First, you made those examples, not me. Don't tell me now that they don't count. Perhaps you should pick better examples to support your claim.

Second, nearly impossible? Again no.

We have very efficient and effective options to quickly apply standardized written, recorded, or electronic contracts.

Do you think a law altering or abolishing oral contracts would come into being in the blink of an eye with no warning? That is an absurdity.

Even with something like renting my old house it took a minimal amount of effort to print up a standard rental agreement.

Finally, to repeat myself, I am not in favor of eliminating oral contracts. I am simoly telling you that your hyperbole is ridiculous and your examples supporting said hyperbole don't hold up.


1.  They are but examples.  I never said they didn't count.

2.  Yes, given the amount of commerce that is conducted with oral contracts yes.

3.  So now there is no more bargaining to be had between parties?  We are just going to fiat say these are the terms and you have no right to alter these terms?  So much for a free society.  Guess I can't pay the neighborhood kid to mow my lawn tomorrow because we don't have a standardized implied contract for him to mow it tomorrow, after two, but no later than four pm.

4.  An absurdity is calling for the end of oral contracts.  Do you even understand what a contract is?

5.  Yes sometimes it is best to have a written contract.

6.  It's not hyperbole.  You only think it is hyperbole because you have zero concept of how much our everyday life are governed by oral contracts.
 
2014-04-25 07:08:33 PM
If I could edit I would:  It's not sometimes best to have a written contract.  It is best to have a written contract. Sometimes that doesn't happen.  Sometimes it isn't feasible.
 
2014-04-25 07:24:49 PM

sprgrss: Smackledorfer: First, you made those examples, not me. Don't tell me now that they don't count. Perhaps you should pick better examples to support your claim.

Second, nearly impossible? Again no.

We have very efficient and effective options to quickly apply standardized written, recorded, or electronic contracts.

Do you think a law altering or abolishing oral contracts would come into being in the blink of an eye with no warning? That is an absurdity.

Even with something like renting my old house it took a minimal amount of effort to print up a standard rental agreement.

Finally, to repeat myself, I am not in favor of eliminating oral contracts. I am simoly telling you that your hyperbole is ridiculous and your examples supporting said hyperbole don't hold up.

1.  They are but examples.  I never said they didn't count.

2.  Yes, given the amount of commerce that is conducted with oral contracts yes.

3.  So now there is no more bargaining to be had between parties?  We are just going to fiat say these are the terms and you have no right to alter these terms?  So much for a free society.  Guess I can't pay the neighborhood kid to mow my lawn tomorrow because we don't have a standardized implied contract for him to mow it tomorrow, after two, but no later than four pm.

4.  An absurdity is calling for the end of oral contracts.  Do you even understand what a contract is?

5.  Yes sometimes it is best to have a written contract.

6.  It's not hyperbole.  You only think it is hyperbole because you have zero concept of how much our everyday life are governed by oral contracts.


1. Great, use big examples instead of just small ones.

2. Go on...

3. Wtf are you talking about? Every heard of templates?

4. I have expressly stated twice that I am not calling for this. Are you accusing me of this or just deflecting with a strawman?

5. Agreed. Why are you telking this to me? Are you confusing me with another poster?

6. Enlighten me. Thus far your examples would add less than a minute to the transactions in question. Even your lawnmowing example is a quick fix and even quicker as people adjust to the hypothetical change.


It seems like your goal here is to do the following:
A. Create strawmen.
B. Ignore arguments against your claims.
C. Tell people they know nothing and therefore you are automatically right. But of course despite having tons of time to do these things you cannot be arsed to support anything you say.

I am all for wasting my time on fark, but that kind of behavior puzzles me. To each their own I guess.
 
2014-04-25 07:30:03 PM
I provided an example up thread, but I digress.

I'll tell you what.  You came sauntering into this thread attempting to take some sort of intellectual high ground.  The only problem is you are being pants on head retarded.  You need to have a base level of knowledge on the topic.

For instance, understand what the Statute of Frauds is, understanding just exactly how common oral contracts are, and understand how commerce functions and why oral contracts are necessary for commerce.

But you won't do that.  Instead you'll make the straw man arguments while claiming others are doing so in order to hide your own ignorance.

But hey, fark it...no more orders over the phone because smackeldorfer doesn't understand what an oral contract is.
 
2014-04-25 07:36:59 PM
7e6991d2f17c4774ade5-5bf36525976ed2a28d411faf69b3d6ad.r13.cf3.rackcdn.com
                                 "Are you still here?  It's over.  Go  home."
 
2014-04-25 07:38:55 PM
As a resident of Pasco county, I can tell you the sheriff's office is not interested in solving crimes. Unless you speed or rob a Dunkin Donuts, They will not bother. I once went to the Government Center on Little Rd. to file a complaint. Not only would they not take the complaint (A contractor stole money from me), but threatened to arrest me. Most of them are here for the pension.
Holiday Fl. is ripe with drugs, yet the cops know about it and refuse to do anything about it. I have actually heard on a morning radio show, people bragging that they get pills easily at a plaza on US 19. One caller mentioned the plaza by name. The cops can't be bothered. But, roll through a stop sign, you will have 3 squad cars at the scene in no time. Completely useless.
 
2014-04-25 07:49:58 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Quit being such a vagina.... It not like he went all "punisher" or "walking tall" on their asses. And to be fair the police pretty much said "fark you." All he did was get a few friends on motorcycles to peacefully scare criminals out of his house. That's not taking the law into your own hands, more like simple problem solving when those we pay to solve certain problems refuse to help. Trust me it could have been way worse. This guy took the high road compared to what others in that situation would have done.
 
2014-04-25 07:52:57 PM

fblonk: As a resident of Pasco county, I can tell you the sheriff's office is not interested in solving crimes. Unless you speed or rob a Dunkin Donuts, They will not bother. I once went to the Government Center on Little Rd. to file a complaint. Not only would they not take the complaint (A contractor stole money from me), but threatened to arrest me. Most of them are here for the pension.
Holiday Fl. is ripe with drugs, yet the cops know about it and refuse to do anything about it. I have actually heard on a morning radio show, people bragging that they get pills easily at a plaza on US 19. One caller mentioned the plaza by name. The cops can't be bothered. But, roll through a stop sign, you will have 3 squad cars at the scene in no time. Completely useless.


i372.photobucket.com

This whole county's a pussy, just waiting to get farked, mang.
 
2014-04-25 07:55:06 PM

mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.


I lived in New Port Richey for years. In fact, this linked article took place on my block. And I can attest that he was a violent drunk.

We threw a block party once his landlord finally evicted him.
 
2014-04-25 08:00:11 PM

Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.


Yea but you forget..... These bikers are made up of former veterans, meaning they have a respectable code of honor that would prevent them from just barging in, killing, and raping. Not all biker clubs are just spinoffs of the hell's angels or the Mongols. Most biker clubs are rather respectable. They really mostly prey on people's ignorance by showing up on bikes with their leather jackets and bandannas and sleeve tattoos. People see that and think "omg violent hell's angel biker gang, these guys will kill me! Ok I give up!" When in reality they wouldn't have gotten physical unless things got extremely out of hand, or even at all.
 
2014-04-25 08:00:16 PM

sprgrss: I provided an example up thread, but I digress.

I'll tell you what.  You came sauntering into this thread attempting to take some sort of intellectual high ground.  The only problem is you are being pants on head retarded.  You need to have a base level of knowledge on the topic.

For instance, understand what the Statute of Frauds is, understanding just exactly how common oral contracts are, and understand how commerce functions and why oral contracts are necessary for commerce.

But you won't do that.  Instead you'll make the straw man arguments while claiming others are doing so in order to hide your own ignorance.

But hey, fark it...no more orders over the phone because smackeldorfer doesn't understand what an oral contract is.


Off to ignore you go.
 
2014-04-25 08:21:16 PM

sprgrss: walktoanarcade: *sigh*

Those are poor examples all. Those are all things not expressly needing a contract for extra protection.

If I call a pizza place and make an order they make it once they verify the phone number on their caller ID, which is how everyone rolls here.  No contract needed with their having proof of me calling.

You're simply wrong. (and I know about the receipts for the third time ;) )

Oral/verbal agreements need to be abolished concerning large items, which I should have specified. One person's word over another regarding property or other items of high value, is stupid.

I operate a widget manufacturing plant.

You use widgets in one of your products.  Your supply of widgets get destroyed in a sprinkler system malfunction and you need 10,000 widgets next week.  You call me up and order those widgets.  Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?


In such a high dollar transaction written contracts are standard. There are services such as docusign which facilitate electronic signing.
 
2014-04-25 08:36:55 PM
WTF?! According to police friends of mine, all land in Florida, aside from that owned by the State and Federal governments, is privately owned.

That means, my 'urban exploration' tendencies of prowling abandoned and run down homes, can get me arrested for trespassing.

Also, if the owner of a home does not want you there, you have until the end of the lease to leave. I discovered that when I rented a house from a Reality Agency and the owners decided to come back down and take up residency. No lease gives you about two weeks before agents of the owner show up and take everything of yours out of the house. You may petition the court for extended time to find and secure a new place.

Unless the agent of the owner has, in written form, a contract for the use of the home, technically verbal agreements are null and void.

(There was a situation here where two young men rented an old trailer from a lady who lived next door to it. They promptly did so much work on it that the thing looked better than new inside and out. So good that the lady decided she wanted to live in it and gave them an eviction notice. They petitioned the court and their plea was rejected as they had no written lease. They had to go and no sooner than they did and the lady moved in. A few weeks later, when the lady wasn't home, they showed up with a big pickup truck equipped with a trailer hitch, hooked up to the mobile home and pulled it two feet foreword, then left. That means they broke all of the water and a/c connections underneath, along with the sewer.

Since when have home owners wound up with less rights than bums? Anytime a written contract is not used, it is considered a month to month lease. Meaning if the lease is not renewed at the end of the period, the occupants have two weeks from that time to vacate the premises.

If they don't, the home owner can also legally evict them by force, after getting a court to agree, and, later, take them to court and sue them to recover his expenses.

However, I do find the idea of the Veterans Motorcycle gang to be much more effective and cheaper.
 
2014-04-25 08:58:23 PM
Careful Subby. You'll have people biatching at you for calling the roving gang of motorcyclists a gang instead of a club.
 
2014-04-25 09:02:18 PM

sprgrss: Should I have to wait until we can get together to agree to a written contract and put it in writing before I start manufacturing those 10,000 widgets you ordered or should I start manufacturing your widgets so that you can get those 10,000 widgets on time and you can fulfill your other contractual obligations?


If you sent over those 10,000 widgets and I, in the meantime, decided I didn't want them anymore and sent them back, you'd be farked.
Sure, you could sue and claim we made an oral agreement.  I go to court and claim there was never such an agreement and have no idea why you sent your crappy widgets to me.  I say maybe you were purposely trying to set me up to be forced to buy them to avoid your lawsuit.  Who's the court going to believe?  Could go either way, depending on jurisdiction, but I'd sure hate to be the plaintiff in that suit.
Smart businesses have standardized forms for such things, which are good enough to act as generic contracts.  If you call and make an order for me to make 10,000 dildos, I'll email the form to your purchasing department and production won't start until they send it back authorizing that work.  Oral contracts are shiat.

While business is done this way all day long, it's an inherent risk one or both parties take on.  This is the point.  That pizza joint you mentioned takes that risk every time they send a pie out.  They won't legally recoup any losses if it was a prank call, or the customer decides to say, "fark you and your pizza, I don't want it."  However, their potential loss is small.  Anyone doing larger work, or working with real property won't do that, and anyone who thinks a he-said-she-said oral agreement is proof of shiat will get bit in the ass.
No one in their right mind would start making your large widget order without some kind of paperwork to prove you ordered them first.
 
2014-04-25 09:18:17 PM
Really need to do something about this squatter crap. :D
 
2014-04-25 09:45:51 PM

stuffy: Really need to do something about this squatter crap. :D


Well, I am certainly not going to stand up to do that.
 
2014-04-25 09:53:08 PM

The_Sponge: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.


As long as you're in my head, see if you can find my mind. Thanks.
 
2014-04-25 10:21:04 PM
This is all about whom is making the claims.

For example; if it were Wells Fargo saying people were squatting in a home owned by WF, then those squatters would be evicted.

Some not-rich-guy saying people are squatting in his home?  Eh, cops wont help you.
 
2014-04-25 10:30:56 PM
They shouls let cattle graze there for free.
 
2014-04-25 10:32:06 PM
Squatters can lie. Law can't take sides so it has to get settled in court. Owner can sue squatters for damages, fines, and costs. Trouble is, the owner needs to pony up cash up front to push the claim. He could get them out for cheaper, but he has to waive his right to sue for damages.

That's how it works in Michigan anyway. This is Florida, home of some of the worst state property laws in the country so this sort of thing isn't really surprising.
 
2014-04-25 10:49:07 PM

GORDON: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

This.  The guy who owned the house was obviously successful enough that he didn't NEED that house, and obviously the guy who broke in and changed the lock DID need the house.  It isn't fair.  And in a perfect world those motorcycle baby killer thugs would all be in prison.


I really really hope you're trolling. No one can be THIS libtarded, even on Fark.
 
2014-04-25 10:55:46 PM

Dirty J1: These bikers are made up of former veterans


The Hells Angels were made up of former military from WWII, mostly pilots who still wanted that thrill and couldn't re-integrate back into society. The concept of the biker's leather jackets were because that's what they brought home with them from the service.
 
KIA
2014-04-25 11:28:32 PM

Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.


That's simply not true at all. The common law allowed "self-help" evictions so long as there was no breach of the peace. Historically it was a lot of time and trouble and often distance to go to court.

A few states have abolished it because they hate property rights. Check with a local attorney.

And, btw, if he was military, his local JAG should have been happy to help.
 
2014-04-25 11:30:25 PM
Ok, I'm really late to the thread.  One thing to say.  The word is "tenant" not "tenet."  Way too many different people (or alts) using the same wrong word.

Blame your "stupid cellphone auto-correct" if you need to.  It doesn't make you look better.  Now you're not just stupid, but lazy, too.
 
2014-04-25 11:44:17 PM

BalugaJoe: They shouls let cattle graze there for free.


And the ghouls.
 
2014-04-26 12:03:09 AM

KIA: Gyrfalcon: hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.

This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.

That's simply not true at all. The common law allowed "self-help" evictions so long as there was no breach of the peace. Historically it was a lot of time and trouble and often distance to go to court.

A few states have abolished it because they hate property rights. Check with a local attorney.


And, btw, if he was military, his local JAG should have been happy to help.



I am my local attorney (well, I work for him). A large part of what we do is unlawful detainers ("evictions" to you laypersons). And self-help evictions are illegal in nearly every state in the union, not because they "hate property rights" but because of a little thing called "warranty of habitability" which guarantees that anyone moving into a residence has a right to at least a minimally habitable home. So a landlord with tenants he doesn't like for WHATEVER reason may not simply shut off the lights, heat, water, etc., in an effort to force them out. He has to do it through the courts. A landlord whose tenants have not paid rent in six months can't do it either; nor can a landlord who hasn't seen his tenants in the last year and thinks the place is abandoned.

If that sounds like things are weighted towards the tenant, well, it's because they are. Thank your local slumlord for that. Otoh, if you are a landlord, why did you let your tenant get six months in arrears on rent before filing UD paperwork? If you were out of town, why didn't you hire a property management company to keep an eye on the place? The law is set up so that greedy landlords can't just kick out tenants willy-nilly so they can find better-paying ones; or jack the rent up every six months even if their tenants are paying on time. And if you're on deployment and your wife runs out on you and squatters move in--that's a rare event, and it sucks, but a UD can be run through the court in under two months; I know, I do it all the time.

But self-help, no matter how peaceful, is quite illegal. Check with your local attorney.
 
2014-04-26 12:06:27 AM

KidneyStone: A lot of people hate bikers because reasons but we are a generous lot.


Not me.  Many years ago I was the night manager at a pool hall, and we often had bikers as patrons.  Never once started a fight, but ended quite a few.
 
2014-04-26 12:22:46 AM

bunner: I have come to the conclusion that the friend in this case who was willfully charged with overseeing the property in the owner's absence was pretty much useless.


No joke. When you're military and have to go off on those long "business trips," it's damn tough to find someone you can trust to actually take care of your stuff while you're gone. The property owner should have fired the first shot at his "friend."
 
2014-04-26 12:31:17 AM

The_Sponge: TheBigJerk: I wasn't talking about YOUR personal standards or even arguing these people aren't "garbage (they are). My point, which seems to have sailed far over your angry, hair-trigger head is that rule of men, rule of "I think he's a piece of garbage so that's that," is in direct opposition to the rule of law. A majority of Americans are bigoted jerks willing to write off decent people for shiatty reasons, whether or not you're one of them doesn't change the fact that "mob justice" tends inevitably towards being unjust.


At yet you felt the need to bring up something that has nothing to do with the situation at hand.  Do me a favor and save your previous verbiage for a thread that calls for it....like a story involving a hate crime.


It does.  It's a case of mob justice.  The fact that everyone can feel good or at least ambivalent about it *this* time doesn't make it right and doesn't make mob justice just.

It's always so easy to take that first step...
 
2014-04-26 12:45:07 AM

Gyrfalcon: And self-help evictions are illegal in nearly every state in the union, not because they "hate property rights" but because of a little thing called "warranty of habitability" which guarantees that anyone moving into a residence has a right to at least a minimally habitable home. So a landlord with tenants he doesn't like for WHATEVER reason may not simply shut off the lights, heat, water, etc., in an effort to force them out. He has to do it through the courts.


The problem is not with landlords and tenants rights.
It's with trespassers who somehow fooled the cops into thinking their tenants.
 
2014-04-26 12:46:11 AM
Or "they're" tenants, even.
 
2014-04-26 12:52:44 AM
Well there's a classic feel-good piece for you.  Don't you feel good now?  Don't make me come over there and make you feel good.  Because I will.  That's not a threat, it's a promise!
 
2014-04-26 01:23:41 AM

bunner: [7e6991d2f17c4774ade5-5bf36525976ed2a28d411faf69b3d6ad.r13.cf3.rackcd n .com image 580x320]
                                 "Are you still here?  It's over.  Go  home."


make me
i13.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-26 04:23:41 AM

ReverendJasen: Gyrfalcon: And self-help evictions are illegal in nearly every state in the union, not because they "hate property rights" but because of a little thing called "warranty of habitability" which guarantees that anyone moving into a residence has a right to at least a minimally habitable home. So a landlord with tenants he doesn't like for WHATEVER reason may not simply shut off the lights, heat, water, etc., in an effort to force them out. He has to do it through the courts.

The problem is not with landlords and tenants rights.
It's with trespassers who somehow fooled the cops into thinking their tenants.


The cops are not the ones who make the determination if the people inside the house are tenants. That's for the courts and then the county officers (aka "deputy sheriffs"). The city cops aren't even authorized to make that call, and they shouldn't be expected to do so.
 
2014-04-26 09:57:50 AM

dr_blasto: SauronWasFramed: If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.

Did you have a stroke while writing this?


He's probably STILL stroking to this gem.
 
2014-04-26 10:00:04 AM
img.fark.net

you know who else got rid of a tennant?

/only slightly sorry...
 
2014-04-26 10:09:02 AM
Salute Veterans, and adios squatters
 
2014-04-26 11:06:50 AM

Dimensio: meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?

I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.


My sarcasm detector beeped.
 
2014-04-26 11:07:12 AM
Gotta say, I'm glad this happened. These two squatters were downright cartoonish about how skeevy they are. They may as well have been wearing striped shirts with black masks a la Beagle Boys.

Just hope the next house they may try to take over is owned by some guy who is still there, and will Stand His Ground.

Shame on all the "BUTT BUTT BUTT MUH FREEDUMZ AN RITES!" idiots who ran to Nevada to defend that freeloading bigot instead of helping out a TRUE hero in need.
 
2014-04-26 12:14:34 PM

Smackledorfer: sprgrss: I provided an example up thread, but I digress.

I'll tell you what.  You came sauntering into this thread attempting to take some sort of intellectual high ground.  The only problem is you are being pants on head retarded.  You need to have a base level of knowledge on the topic.

For instance, understand what the Statute of Frauds is, understanding just exactly how common oral contracts are, and understand how commerce functions and why oral contracts are necessary for commerce.

But you won't do that.  Instead you'll make the straw man arguments while claiming others are doing so in order to hide your own ignorance.

But hey, fark it...no more orders over the phone because smackeldorfer doesn't understand what an oral contract is.

Off to ignore you go.


Good choice.  Ignore the actual attorney in the thread talking about contract law.

Most of the business I do is based upon oral contracts, sometimes accompanied by a handshake.  I'm not talking about pizzas, I'm talking about thousands of dollars of equipment and services.  Putting it in writing would be a pain in the ass, and things would get done more slowly.
 
2014-04-26 04:32:04 PM

jim32rr: Salute Veterans, and adios squatters


Seconded.
 
2014-04-26 08:04:44 PM

Bslim: brimed03: Bslim: Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.

Yeah? So is rape.

This isn't about rape.


Noooo... but your comment was.  Time to up the memory exercises.
 
Displayed 290 of 290 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report