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(Opposing Views)   Problem: Returning soldier finds two squatters in his home, police refuse to throw them out. Solution: A motorcycle gang of military veterans roll by and "peacefully make the squatters uncomfortable"   (opposingviews.com) divider line 290
    More: Hero, squatters, squatters uncomfortable, veterans, refuses, New Port Richey, soldiers, motorcycles  
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23210 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2014 at 3:34 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-25 02:12:37 PM
I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?
 
2014-04-25 02:31:33 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


If the homeowner had taken the time and effort to become wealthy, the cops would have gone in with guns drawn.  So this really is all on him.
 
2014-04-25 02:34:38 PM
He should've pretended he was writing the police from a bank's legal department.
 
2014-04-25 02:44:20 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


I agree with your concern. As the homeowner had attempted legal relief for his grievance, and was informed by police officers that they would do nothing to remove the criminal invaders of his home, he should have simply accepted that he had no recourse at all, and allowed the criminal squatters to remain undisturbed.
 
2014-04-25 02:50:07 PM

meat0918: On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner. Isn't menacing a crime in most places?



Really?  The "menacing" is geared towards pieces of garbage, not an innocent couple.

/Never had to deal with squatters.
//But it was shiatty enough when I had to kick out a person who was renting a room from me and stopped paying rent.
 
2014-04-25 02:50:20 PM
If it's his house, can't he just shoot them? This story is coming out of Florida after all.
 
2014-04-25 02:56:09 PM
I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day
 
2014-04-25 03:00:34 PM

Mark Ratner: I think this is a pretty cool story, and I wish there was a video with audio showing the peaceful encounter with the squatters and motorcycle gang.

/I'm picturing 20-30 burly, bearded, tattooed, muscular fat dudes rolling up in their Harleys, politely ringing the door bell, and saying, "get the FARK out."
//squatters say, "ok, Jose" and close the door
///they're gone the next day



If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.
 
2014-04-25 03:01:49 PM
If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.
 
2014-04-25 03:19:57 PM

SauronWasFramed: If only there were laws that allowed the authorities to remove them from the owners property.   Gotta love it when duhmass liberal laws intentions fail at the hands of a mob.


Did you have a stroke while writing this?
 
2014-04-25 03:32:06 PM

The_Sponge: If I owned the home in that situation, I would be nervous about them trashing the house before leaving.


That's guaranteed no matter what with squatters.  They'll steal anything they can fence and trash what they can't.
 
2014-04-25 03:38:15 PM

Mugato: If it's his house, can't he just shoot them? This story is coming out of Florida after all.


He's military, so he could have just used nerve gas.

Blood is a biatch to mop up.
 
2014-04-25 03:38:40 PM
sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??
 
2014-04-25 03:39:47 PM
FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.
 
2014-04-25 03:40:17 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


It probably would not be hard to get an eviction notice served and processed. They'd have no defense whatsoever. That said, I think it's nonsense they'd have to go through all that.
 
2014-04-25 03:40:40 PM
While they're peacefully kicking out squatters:

a57.foxnews.com
 
2014-04-25 03:40:44 PM
Sounds like someone didn't stand their ground.
 
2014-04-25 03:41:16 PM
ih2.redbubble.net

Just put it in the window.
 
2014-04-25 03:42:07 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


Probably planet "seems to tough for us to figure out so you deal with it" I'm having a problem with my insurance compant about my home address and the amount of "well I cant fix that" I have heard is absurd.
 
2014-04-25 03:43:56 PM
There seems to be some details missing from this story.

How long were the squatters living there?  Was the solider really shocked to come back after 2 years and find someone living there?  Has he not seen a utility bill, get a call from a neighbor or do anything at all to check on the status of his property while he was gone?  He's obviously from the area because there isn't an Army base anywhere around there (Closest is just south of Jacksonville).  Was he really just leaving the property vacant with no AC running for 2 years?
 
2014-04-25 03:44:02 PM
I was assuming the bikers just rolled up, set up lawn chairs on the front, and read books with threatening titles like "The Art of War" or "Slaughterhouse Five" or "Atlas Shrugged" for hours on end while brewing cups of puerh tea.

You wanna make squatters more uncomfortable? Have them invite the local swing choir too.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:04 PM

Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??


Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:12 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: Ortiz claims that he made a verbal agreement with Sharkey's friend, who was overseeing the home while the soldier and his wife were gone, that they could live there for free as long as they did repairs on the house. Both Sharkey and his friend say those claims are lies, but Ortiz has continued to defend himself.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned.

Sadly, I'm also willing to bet Ortiz is one of those Sovereign Citizen types, as well. These people will move into houses, change locks on houses, and then using the "POWER OF ATTORNEY!" (Heh, see what I did there), file "secret papers" with the courts that somehow allow them to claim that property as theirs because they discovered the secret of legaleese in a five hundred dollar, two day seminar.


...and will scream "ADVERSE POSSESSION!" the minute they step into the house, as though being in a house a day entitles you to keep it.
 
2014-04-25 03:44:49 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Blood is a biatch to mop up.


Protip:  Power Washer.
 
2014-04-25 03:45:13 PM
it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.
 
2014-04-25 03:45:25 PM

hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned


There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.
 
2014-04-25 03:46:33 PM

mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.


I thought Florida had it's own tag because of Melbourne/Palm Bay.
 
2014-04-25 03:46:59 PM
I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??
 
2014-04-25 03:47:39 PM
Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.
 
2014-04-25 03:47:48 PM

mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.


This.
 
2014-04-25 03:49:06 PM

hardinparamedic: verbal agreement


Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?
 
2014-04-25 03:49:10 PM
img2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-25 03:50:24 PM
All these posts and nothing about adverse possession?
 
2014-04-25 03:50:24 PM
FTFA:  Police told Sharkey that they could do nothing about the couple, Julio Ortiz and Fatima Cardosa, since they already established residency, so the matter would have to be settled in a civil court.

That is not how property law or criminal law works...

These cops are morons.
 
2014-04-25 03:51:21 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Even if his friend is lying and they did have a verbal agreement, the friend wasn't the owner to make such an arrangement.

The changing of the locks is the give-away here.  I rent my house (and have a written lease), and I would only change the locks with the owner's permission.  I'm thinking they're just squatters who found out the house was empty.
 
2014-04-25 03:51:30 PM

Mugato: hardinparamedic: Possession is 9/10 of the law. At this point, it's a matter of he-said, she-said as far as the law is concerned

There has to be all kinds of documents at city hall or whatever that says it's his house. Otherwise this would be happening all the time whenever someone goes on vacation.


The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.
 
2014-04-25 03:52:48 PM

rebelyell2006: hardinparamedic: verbal agreement

Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on." -- Samuel Goldwyn
 
2014-04-25 03:52:55 PM

hardinparamedic: Linux_Yes: sounds like horse sh*t to me. if you can't produce written evidence (deed) that you own/rent the home, your ass is out.  that is the Law. 90% of the Law in 'murica pertains to protecting Private Property Ownership.


what planet are these 'cops' living on??

Planet "This is a landlord/tenet dispute, and we can't get involved until you perform either a legal eviction, or take them to court."

In most states, if someone claims to be staying there by invitation as a tenet or roommate, you have to follow specific actions, including giving them the minimum notice required by law to GTFO.


This.

No matter how much you legally own the property, if someone ON the property has established residence, you have to evict them through the courts; the cops can't do it just because you're the owner.

It sucks, but it also keeps Donald Trump from kicking widows off his hotel property.
 
2014-04-25 03:52:58 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


Worthless pigs do it all the time and doesn't seem to be illegal.. even when taken to a felony level.   In other news (today), guy breaks into hotel room and goes to sleep, gets arrested immediately.  So..... why exactly do you not like people taking the law into their own hands when cops are too busy eating donuts out of each others' cracks to do anything about it?
 
2014-04-25 03:53:05 PM
Soldier was deployed with Guard unit.  He went active Duty over there, got orders to Hawaii.  Wifey picked up and moved and met him there.  Left Papers with friend to watch house, get work done.  Friend hired fly-by-night with no real contract.  Fly-by-night moved in changed locks and took house over a weekend.  Friend couldn't do anything about it, and cops wouldn't since no $ in it.  Local Story Squaters trashed place and abandoned dogs in it.  Local Vets and others volunterring to fix issues.
 
2014-04-25 03:53:17 PM

rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?


I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.
 
2014-04-25 03:53:27 PM
This is a very patient man.  I think I would have reacted somewhat less calmly in that situation.
 
2014-04-25 03:55:12 PM

hardinparamedic: The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.


That statement challenges the central tenants of my belief system.
 
2014-04-25 03:55:28 PM

hardinparamedic: The problem is the squatter's claims. If he was invited by the caretaker of the property to live there in exchange for it's upkeep, then he becomes not just a squatter, but an actual tenet of the residence.

The problem isn't one of ownership - it's literally one of he-said he was invited to live there and has done so for almost two years, an she-said he wasn't.


Then without written documentation of that agreement, the burden would have to be on the squatter. Otherwise again, this would happen whenever someone finds out that a family is going away for a couple weeks.
 
2014-04-25 03:56:03 PM

meat0918: I'm torn.

On one hand I dislike squatters, and am cynical enough to believe the friend is lying to this guy to cover his ass.

On the other hand, I don't like people taking the law into their own hands, even in this "peaceful" manner.  Isn't menacing a crime in most places?


This.  The guy who owned the house was obviously successful enough that he didn't NEED that house, and obviously the guy who broke in and changed the lock DID need the house.  It isn't fair.  And in a perfect world those motorcycle baby killer thugs would all be in prison.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:14 PM

Born_Again_Bavarian: mr lawson: it's Pasco co, new port richey.
This place is the reason Fl has its own tag. Not joking. This one county. This one city.

This.


ThreadSinger: I'm confused - how does one 'squat' in a home owned by another. I'm serious here; I'll acknowledge I'm from Ottawa so some US issues are a mystery to me, but how can you setup in someone's home, illegally, in the US, and not be arrested for trespassing, break and enter, whatever, not to mention probably interference with the trajectory of projectile weapons?

/??


The story goes, a friend of the owner hired some dude to remodel the inside of the house in exchange for rent. I saw this on the news and the guy (squatter) had the crew in the house showing them all of the work. The owner (via Skype from BFE) yelled and screamed the dude is a criminal!

Who remodeled your house?

Someone here isn't telling the truth.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:34 PM
The laws are similar throughout a lot of the country (including here in California). Basically, all you have to do is break into a house, change the locks and then claim you have some sort of agreement with somebody to live there. Typically, if you aren't noticed within 24 hours the cops won't touch it. Sometimes 12 hours is sufficient. Then, in order to get you out the landowner has to evict you through the court system, which typically takes 2-4 weeks depending on the area. Meanwhile, the house and all of the contents are yours to do with as you please.

The law is completely retarded and needs to be changed. It's even worse in the UK.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:52 PM
Also acceptable solution: bikers go in, beat squatters' asses,, rape the women and wrap them in burlap sacks drive them 20 miles away and repeat.

Sorry, stealing someone's house is unacceptable.
 
2014-04-25 03:57:52 PM

hardinparamedic: rebelyell2006: Can a verbal agreement be enforced legally? If there is no proof whatsoever that the agreement was actually agreed upon?

I don't know about Florida tenet/landlord laws, but I know what I had to go through in Tennessee to get a room mate of mine removed from my house. I had to serve him at least one week notice before I could get him removed out by the deputies.


Problem is how much of a POA did their friend have.  Florida, the owner of the property or agent with full power (ie pays taxes on behalf of owner) has to file eviction.  Problem is if squatters turned power on in their name, boom residency established.  If owner is stuck in Hawaii, it is a pain in the ass to file.
 
2014-04-25 03:58:04 PM

vudukungfu: Just show up with a truck and a van full of big blue plastic barrels. get out with goon suits on (plastic ones) wielding sledge hammers, crow bars, etc. turn non the cell phone blocker. Open the door, tase, duct tape, extract, and remove in safe containers. Put containers out beyond international waters full of lye and anchor them.
Done.


That sounds dangerous, how about just show up with a truck and run it all night with a hose going from the tailpipe in to a window of the home.
 
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