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(Ars Technica)   That sound you just heard is the Google+ death knell. Or maybe it's just the timer on your stove, better check the rolls. But regardless, Google+ is in trouble   (arstechnica.com) divider line 81
    More: Obvious, Google, Larry Page, web app, Vic Gundotra, curve fitting, systems integration  
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4409 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Apr 2014 at 8:08 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



81 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-24 07:58:26 PM
Apple Ping sends its regrets
 
2014-04-24 07:59:02 PM

cman: Apple's Ping sends its regrets


Dangnamnit fixt
 
2014-04-24 08:16:42 PM
As somebody who only finally created a + account to get the annoying nagging to stop, allow me to spit on your shiat-eating grave, Google+.

I like Android phones better than iPhone (or, of course, the joke that is RIM's offerings) but for everything else but search I've basically abandoned Google. Most importantly I've left my Gmail account to languish as a spam collector in favor of a paid Hushmail account. The forced Google+ usage was the last straw for me and if anyone else comes out with a search alternative even half as good as Google I'll leave them for search too. I tried DuckDuckGo but it's just not there yet. I'm really hoping it, or something else, improves. The faster I can be rid of Google the better, frankly.
 
2014-04-24 08:18:01 PM
I really resent being forced to use a Google+ account to leave Youtube comments, especially since that didn't actually work either.

Meanwhile I see WeedLordBonerHitler leave spam and race hate on kitten videos every day.
 
2014-04-24 08:18:23 PM

skozlaw: As somebody who only finally created a + account to get the annoying nagging to stop, allow me to spit on your shiat-eating grave, Google+.

I like Android phones better than iPhone (or, of course, the joke that is RIM's offerings) but for everything else but search I've basically abandoned Google. Most importantly I've left my Gmail account to languish as a spam collector in favor of a paid Hushmail account. The forced Google+ usage was the last straw for me and if anyone else comes out with a search alternative even half as good as Google I'll leave them for search too. I tried DuckDuckGo but it's just not there yet. I'm really hoping it, or something else, improves. The faster I can be rid of Google the better, frankly.


Okay.
 
2014-04-24 08:20:19 PM
I'm struck by just how huge a company Google is. A thousand employees, just for Google+?
 
2014-04-24 08:25:45 PM
Does this mean youtube will stop logging me in as my work name?
 
2014-04-24 08:26:49 PM
Google is losing their touch by being so forceful. People might have naturally gravitated to it after becoming disenchanted with facebook, but google forcing people to make an account there just to comment on videos was not well received. The logo is only thing that's been friendly about the company in a long time.
 
2014-04-24 08:34:46 PM
Because Techcrunch has such a great track record when it comes to rumors.
 
2014-04-24 08:36:48 PM
I never really understood what Google+ was supposed to be.  Was the goal to make it more than a unified login system for Google services?  Didn't it at one point require that you use your real name? (I always thought that was an awful idea for the Internet).

A unified login across services isn't a bad idea.  MS has been pushing that with their Microsoft Accounts, and I personally like that setup - as I use Xbox Music, OneDrive, and OneNote on multiple devices and having one login that keeps them all synced is handy, along with my Outlook contacts being synced across all of them.
 
2014-04-24 08:39:40 PM
Nothing was ever wrong with Google +. The forced integration and YouTube crap wasn't a fault of the product so much as bad marketing.

It just had the misfortune of being second place in a race that only has one winner. If Google had beaten Zuckerberg to the idea we'd all be talking about how uncool Google Plus was compared to Facebook and about how all our crazy relatives rant on Google.
 
2014-04-24 08:42:30 PM

lewismarktwo: I really resent being forced to use a Google+ account to leave Youtube comments, especially since that didn't actually work either.

Meanwhile I see WeedLordBonerHitler leave spam and race hate on kitten videos every day.


From Youtube, click your face in the upper right, then Switch Account. On the next screen, choose add channel, give yourself a nickname, and choose Other as the page type. From then on, you can switch to a Youtube channel username you picked if Youtube puts you back on your main G+ account.
 
2014-04-24 08:42:51 PM

lewismarktwo: I really resent being forced to use a Google+ account to leave Youtube comments, especially since that didn't actually work either.

Meanwhile I see WeedLordBonerHitler leave spam and race hate on kitten videos every day.


I resent that I have a YouTube channel of band videos I have taken that I can't access because I created it so long ago, I used Hotmail.
 
2014-04-24 08:46:58 PM
lewismarktwo
I really resent being forced to use a Google+ account to leave Youtube comments, especially since that didn't actually work either.



I found the other way around even more annoying, i.e. that comments of people sharing a video on G+ end up in the youtube's comments and you end up with a good chunk of the video comments being "Via G+: 'Video about x' " or "Via G+: 'hey guys, check out this video' ".

Then again, the usability of the comments section on youtube has always been shiat and actually gotten worse after Google bought youtube.
And efficiently moderating those comments is also impossible due to the shiatty interface, which is very likely one reason why comments to youtube videos are either a derp fest of epic proportions or disabled.
 
2014-04-24 09:00:58 PM

Kevin Lomax: Nothing was ever wrong with Google +. The forced integration and YouTube crap wasn't a fault of the product so much as bad marketing.


Nope. What people didn't like about the "forced integration" was the force aspect of it not the integration aspect to it. Forcing people to integrate usually causes wars, the Civil War being an excellent example. But unlike the Civil War Google had no basic power to make anyone do anything. And it failed. As it was doomed to fail from the beginning.
 
2014-04-24 09:02:22 PM

skozlaw: As somebody who only finally created a + account to get the annoying nagging to stop, allow me to spit on your shiat-eating grave, Google+.


As someone who had a G+ account created against his will by virtue of simply having a gmail/youtube account, I'll join you.  Excuse me while I drop my pants and take a liquid dump on that grave.
 
2014-04-24 09:11:35 PM

ReverendJasen: As someone who had a G+ account created against his will by virtue of simply having a gmail/youtube account, I'll join you. Excuse me while I drop my pants and take a liquid dump on that grave.


I think if Google had tried to spin off G+ like Microsoft did with Bing they would have had more success.
 
2014-04-24 09:12:08 PM
Ingress will keep it alive.

Hell, I swear Ingress is already 50% of the G+ traffic.
 
2014-04-24 09:12:19 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I never really understood what Google+ was supposed to be.  Was the goal to make it more than a unified login system for Google services?  Didn't it at one point require that you use your real name? (I always thought that was an awful idea for the Internet).

A unified login across services isn't a bad idea.  MS has been pushing that with their Microsoft Accounts, and I personally like that setup - as I use Xbox Music, OneDrive, and OneNote on multiple devices and having one login that keeps them all synced is handy, along with my Outlook contacts being synced across all of them.


It was (and is) a social network idea. It wasn't until it basically failed that the push to force everyone to sign up (or just auto-generate a username based on you email etc.) happened, if you wanted to use any google service.  It currently seems to be the hiding grounds for the 'omg anti facebook' people (hard core computer programmers seem to love it?), and that's about it.

I tried it. But, it's facebook. Without the people that I'd actually want to see updates from, like friends and family.  So I've got a G+ account, but it's not used. I don't even do youtube video comments, I just got farking sick of the splash page being LOG IN TO VIEW THIS VIDEO!!!!! whenever I wanted to see something.
 
2014-04-24 09:25:17 PM
If the latest mobile update is any indication, Facebook's trying hard to make G+ look increasingly interesting.
 
2014-04-24 09:29:36 PM
Can't say I'll miss it.
 
2014-04-24 09:42:41 PM
OSo I'm surprised this hasn't been said:

I'm stuck on social networking to keep up with the friends and family; that's a truth at this point.

Comparing Facebook to g+, I really wanted g+ to work. The mobile app kicks Facebook's ass. The full website is smoother. The advertising is more subtle. The retarded shares don't exist (stop sharing buzzfeed vomit, Grandma).

As has been said: it just didn't catch on and they took some unpopular moves to try to get people to see it as an option. I remember the shift away from MySpace seemed to be overnight. Now with sites accessed from multiple platforms we seem to be much more stubborn.

That or I'm just an old guy now. Screw you, instatwitter.
 
2014-04-24 09:48:04 PM

The Voice of Doom: Then again, the usability of the comments section on youtube has always been shiat and actually gotten worse after Google bought youtube.
And efficiently moderating those comments is also impossible due to the shiatty interface, which is very likely one reason why comments to youtube videos are either a derp fest of epic proportions or disabled.


And then they compounded the problem. "View all" no longer views all, it views only one or two comments per subthread, and for every comment displayed, only the first few...
(CLICK TO EXPAND)
...lines of each comment. Thanks to the "innovation" of infinite scroll and UX designers eliminating "unnecessary" options, there's no longer any way to view the first - oh no you don't, filter - comment in a long thread if it happens to be of historical interest.

The more I see UX people "streamlining" interfaces and "optimizing" them, the more I appreciate the basic unthread linear display of places like Fark.

And that uses up my quota of snarky scarequotes for the night. Good riddance, Gundotra. If only Google had the courage to dump the rest of social crap while they were at it, but we all know that's not going to happen, because Doubleclick^W Google knows how monetizable it is to be able to attach real names to every click tracked by Google Analytics.
 
2014-04-24 09:50:06 PM
That's odd, I haven't read anything about this on Google Buzz.
 
2014-04-24 09:54:26 PM

worlddan: Kevin Lomax: Nothing was ever wrong with Google +. The forced integration and YouTube crap wasn't a fault of the product so much as bad marketing.

Nope. What people didn't like about the "forced integration" was the force aspect of it not the integration aspect to it. Forcing people to integrate usually causes wars, the Civil War being an excellent example. But unlike the Civil War Google had no basic power to make anyone do anything. And it failed. As it was doomed to fail from the beginning.


That is a VERY special read you have on the cause of the Civil War there. Wow.
I'm going to guess what State or States you're from, write down my guess, and seal it in this envelope.
And now would you please tell me (us) where you're writing from and I'll open the envelope and see if I have the correct answer.

/just WOW...!
 
2014-04-24 09:56:07 PM
TuteTibiImperes
A unified login across services isn't a bad idea. MS has been pushing that with their Microsoft Accounts, and I personally like that setup - as I use Xbox Music, OneDrive, and OneNote on multiple devices and having one login that keeps them all synced is handy, along with my Outlook contacts being synced across all of them.


I hate it as far a Google and Youtube are concerned.
When they forced(!) Youtube users into Google/GMail Accounts, they farked things up so bad that I haven't been able to access my Youtube account(s) since then.

It's also an immense loss of privacy:
Before that, you had Youtube cookies.
I occasionally enabled youtube cookies for the duration of a session because it made accessing the account easier instead of manually enabling/disabling cookies manually depending on what I wanted to do.
But even then I had to delete them manually now and then because I didn't like how strongly my past behavior (watched videos, searches, account's language and country choice) influenced the selection in "related videos".
Not even because of privacy, but because of reduced usability.
Like, I'm browsing music videos looking for stuff from $artist or $era and a good chunk of the video suggestions is taken over by some crap I searched for days ago.
Instead of discovering random weird crap when I follow some youtube link, youtube quickly feels a bit like an echo chamber whenever I browse it with activated cookies.

Anyway, the privacy issue I was aiming at is that the only Google product I use daily is search and I do so fairly anonymously.

Nowadays, if I still wanted to use a Youtube account, I would be forced to enable cookies from Google instead of Youtube,
And blammo, if I don't want to go back to manually enabling/disabling scripts and cookies before and after I've used my Youtube account, I've just won a search history connected to an unique ID as well as an ID-connected browsing history across basically the entire web given how many sites embed shiat like Google Analytics or googleapis-stuff like Google's JQuery mirrors.
It's one of the reason why GMail isn't even an option for throw-away addresses for me and even less for something I would use daily.

And while I agree with you about the advantages of single-sign-on in general, there's also the security issue of having many eggs in the same basket.
I *prefer* having separate accounts for unimportant shiat like youtube or social networks and e.g. my main email account.
The most common suggestion you hear each time some big site gets hacked is not to use the same password for different services.
Not using the same service falls into the same category.


So while I agree with you about the advantages of single-sign-on,
Google completely lost me by forcing people into it instead of giving them a choice when/where to use it.
 
2014-04-24 09:58:46 PM

chrylis: If the latest mobile update is any indication, Facebook's trying hard to make G+ look increasingly interesting.


So much this. Burying the Most recent feed pissed me off.
 
2014-04-24 10:01:40 PM
Funny, I recently activated my G+ account since Facebook is really becoming unbearable. Yes Facebook, I want to see updates from friends of friends of friends who I don't even know more often than my regular group of friends and acquaintances.
 
2014-04-24 10:02:32 PM
For integrated products, they weren't integrated very well.  It's like watching total strangers have to kiss.
 
2014-04-24 10:09:28 PM

MrEricSir: That's odd, I haven't read anything about this on Google Buzz.


What happened to my google wave account?
 
2014-04-24 10:21:39 PM
Google wants me to use my real name on my video channel.

Um, yeah... particularly with my parody video of an Iranian space program launch, that will probably result in me getting death threats sent to my home.

No thanks.

I will be glad to see the return of the old system.
 
2014-04-24 10:23:15 PM
Google+ is like WTFark. No one likes it or uses it, yet it keeps on being forced
 
2014-04-24 10:24:40 PM
i don't mind being me on the internet, or following friends & family

but the whole social network thing can go DIAF, same goes for the whole recent trend that everything has to be interconnected and integrated whether it fits or not

we should just go back to having a personal webpage that works no differently than say... a business card, and you carry it with you but not carry a whole bloated network
 
hej
2014-04-24 10:27:22 PM
Fark all you haters. I like G+. Quite a bit, actually.
 
hej
2014-04-24 10:30:25 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I never really understood what Google+ was supposed to be.  Was the goal to make it more than a unified login system for Google services?  Didn't it at one point require that you use your real name? (I always thought that was an awful idea for the Internet).

A unified login across services isn't a bad idea.  MS has been pushing that with their Microsoft Accounts, and I personally like that setup - as I use Xbox Music, OneDrive, and OneNote on multiple devices and having one login that keeps them all synced is handy, along with my Outlook contacts being synced across all of them.


It serves as the basis for Googles OAuth. Additionally, the +1 system it has is (was?) meant to help crowd source search rankings.
 
2014-04-24 10:33:17 PM
so will this mean the G Chrome ad will quit popping up on my Nook? No? Dang.
 
2014-04-24 10:37:41 PM
I like using Picasa but I did not like the forced integration there.  I would always get confused when I got to a point where I couldn't share my pictures except on g+.  Very annoying.
 
2014-04-24 10:40:06 PM
Taken individually, each of the services provided under a unified Google login is pretty neat.  At work (research), we use Hangouts, Groups, and the Drive products quite a bit for collaboration.  They also are nicely integrated with gmail and the calendar, so everything is in one place.  It is still pretty creepy, though, having a social network component so closely tied with my work tools.  This is pretty much why I don't use Google+ as a social network... that and my friends still use Facebook for their minutia.

/Hangouts is very nice and free*
//*free is what you think it means
 
2014-04-24 10:52:42 PM

kroonermanblack: It was (and is) a social network idea. It wasn't until it basically failed that the push to force everyone to sign up (or just auto-generate a username based on you email etc.) happened, if you wanted to use any google service.  It currently seems to be the hiding grounds for the 'omg anti facebook' people (hard core computer programmers seem to love it?), and that's about it.

I tried it. But, it's facebook. Without the people that I'd actually want to see updates from, like friends and family.  So I've got a G+ account, but it's not used. I don't even do youtube video comments, I just got farking sick of the splash page being LOG IN TO VIEW THIS VIDEO!!!!! whenever I wanted to see something.


I'm one of those hardcore anti-facebook people. Frankly, I don't like data about me being sold without my consent.

Let's say Facebook ghost releases new "feature" that allows all of your data to be sold to anyone they please at 3 AM on a Tuesday.  They automatically opt in everyone who uses their service.  People don't find out about it until Wednesday Morning / Afternoon when they start opting out en-masse.  During this time, Facebook takes a snapshot of the database as of 3:15 AM.

It doesn't matter if you opt out, because all information up to 3AM Tuesday night that you shared on Facebook is already a part of a market ready database for data mining.

Google on the other hand, makes loads of money running an advertising company and thus has less incentive to sell your data and give their competitors a product that they themselves can mine and use.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but they have more incentive to keep your information within their own servers.
 
2014-04-24 11:12:01 PM

hej: Fark all you haters. I like G+. Quite a bit, actually.


It isn't bad in concept, but no one that really matters to me (that doesn't also use FB) uses it, so it is redundant and less used as far as I'm concerned.
 
2014-04-24 11:12:27 PM

kroonermanblack: It currently seems to be the hiding grounds for the 'omg anti facebook' people (hard core computer programmers seem to love it?), and that's about it.


Photographers have taken to it.  You can turn off compression options, unlike Facebook, so your pics don't come out all wonky.  And you are able to connect with other photogs too.

That's really the only reason I use mine.
 
2014-04-24 11:23:43 PM
If you're not paying for it you're not the customer, you're the product.
 
2014-04-24 11:41:26 PM

hej: Fark all you haters. I like G+. Quite a bit, actually.


I don't. I don't want nor have a Facebook account by choice, but if I want to comment on a youtube video I'm forced to have a G+ account. And gmail used to let you opt out of G+ on your gmail accounts in the past, but nowadays if you create a gmail account you're automatically signed up for a G+ account too, whether or not you want it.

G+ should be 100% optional.
 
2014-04-24 11:56:18 PM

Flint Ironstag: If you're not paying for it you're not the customer, you're the product.


THIS
 
2014-04-25 12:04:15 AM

Flint Ironstag: If you're not paying for it you're not the customer, you're the product.


OMG!!! Next you'll tell me some crazy lie like "companies are only there to make money." Tell me it isn't so!
 
2014-04-25 12:11:19 AM

Flint Ironstag: If you're not paying for it you're not the customer, you're the product.


If you are paying, then are you both?
 
2014-04-25 12:26:27 AM
Google doesn't have a good track record with social media

... how is Orkut doing outside of south america?
 
2014-04-25 12:28:03 AM
Weird. I didn't hear a damned thing.
 
2014-04-25 12:36:47 AM
I would love this. I have stopped using most Google services because I deplore the forced integration, user identification, and cross-association of their products. As that ukelele-playing hipster chick on Youtube put it, "F*ck you Google Plus!"

For quite a long while I've opined that Google is becoming the Evil Empire. Maybe, just MAYBE, they'll change course. Unlikely, but maybe.

In the meantime I'll stick with Noscript, a private IP proxy, etc. I cannot abide advertising (particularly targeted ads), and I'll do whatever it takes to avoid them and their servers. No company needs to monetize my mere existence, thank you.
 
2014-04-25 12:40:48 AM

germ78: Funny, I recently activated my G+ account since Facebook is really becoming unbearable. Yes Facebook, I want to see updates from friends of friends of friends who I don't even know more often than my regular group of friends and acquaintances.


FWIW, they only spam to two types of accounts:
1. Virtually no friends. The only way they can send you pulses is if they come from people you don't know.
2. People that live their lives on Facebook.
 
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