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(Talking Points Memo)   Bill O'Reilly asks Bundy Militia member:"How does your protest differ from Occupy Wall Street?" Bundy supporter:"Mr. Bundy is providing the country with beef." Hey everybody: FREE STEAKS   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 387
    More: Dumbass, Occupy Wall Street, Bill O'Reilly, Bundy, Wall Street, local church, Bundy supporter, beef, foreign exchange reserves  
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4379 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2014 at 5:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-23 06:56:30 PM  

Thunderpipes: Occupy are a bunch of thug losers. Bundy family and supporters are standing up to the brown shirts. And yes, they give us steak. Occupy just creates garbage.


Call me when OWS threatens to start shooting cops.
 
2014-04-23 06:56:41 PM  

Misch: Environmentalists are basically coming to the realization that ranchers really know these huge swaths of land the best, and everyone has a stake in doing what's best for the land.


You have it backwards. It has been ranchers who have warmed up to environmentalists after realizing the policies they supported were ruining the land they were trying to live on. So they agreed to federal oversight and environmental regulations controlling grazing, water rights, endangered species, etc.
 
2014-04-23 07:02:29 PM  

Grungehamster: Baz744: impaler: Baz744: The man who was bitten, we'll call him "Bundy thug #1," was one of the boldest aggressors. Finally, the police officer deploys the dog in order to obtain Bundy thug #1's compliance. At that time Bundy thug #1 criminally abused the animal by kicking it.

The officer did NOT give a command for that dog to attack, because he would have eaten thug #1's hand.

Even had he done so, the fact is Bundy thug #1 was aggressively advancing on officers, shouting in their faces, and refusing repeated instructions to back down. This in the context of a rowdy mob of out of control Bundy thugs storming around, yelling and screaming at police officers.

Even if he ordered the dog to attack, he would have been justified in doing so. Bundy thug #1 had no right of self-defense either way.

Best part of that video? How smug the person recording is that everyone will freak out when they see the unwarranted police brutality they caught on film. Seriously, do they understand just how they look screaming that officers have no right to touch the guy after he rammed an ATV into their truck and failed to stop advancing on them threateningly afterwards.


I have held the opinion for some time now that there is an organized movement afoot to drive the country to civil war. And I mean more organized than a bunch of Bubbas out in the Mississippi woods "plotin' a coo day ta."

Maybe I'm crazy. But if I'm right, another benefit of this is that is has drawn out many of the treason-inclined in recorded and traceable electronic forums. They really seem/ed to think the revolution is/was afoot, and it is/was time to show their colors.

Now we know who many of them are.
 
2014-04-23 07:04:44 PM  

Serious Black: You didn't destroy property and weren't arrested because BLM agents assumed (probably correctly) that you would try to murder them if they didn't de-escalate the situation. Last I checked, nobody in OWS waved guns in the faces of federal agents and dared them to play chicken.


OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

It makes the gov think twice before jackbooting.
 
2014-04-23 07:05:10 PM  

Grungehamster: Seriously, do they understand just how they look screaming that officers have no right to touch the guy after he rammed an ATV into their truck


Those are freedom shouts.


Grungehamster: and failed to stop advancing on them threateningly afterwards.


That's liberty marching.
 
2014-04-23 07:06:24 PM  

Grungehamster: Mantour: [apushcanvas.pbworks.com image 850x637]

...So what you're saying is that using force to get out of paying the government money is a well-known and historic part of being an American, right?


Yes but they were better dressed back then.
 
2014-04-23 07:07:03 PM  

firefly212: Serious Black: You didn't destroy property and weren't arrested because BLM agents assumed (probably correctly) that you would try to murder them if they didn't de-escalate the situation. Last I checked, nobody in OWS waved guns in the faces of federal agents and dared them to play chicken.

Maybe that's where OWS went wrong... they should bring guns next time.


I think I said as much at the time.
OWS was a staged event tho. They came to protest corporations, the upper class, and dozens of other things, but not to revolt. I doubt the average attendee expected the benevolent hand of government would wrap itself around their necks.

In this case the government came to Bundy, guns in hand, to dismantle his operation.
The publics objection was specific and they knew stopping this wouldn't be a sign waving affair.

/The moment you add guns to an angry mob, things have a nasty habit of escalating.
/its because they do that an armed an angry public will get more attention than a simply annoyed public who camps out on your lawn.
 
2014-04-23 07:07:04 PM  
This free loader is welfare farmer! Handouts handouts handouts! Start paying for stuff ya lazy free loader!
 
2014-04-23 07:07:31 PM  

Bob Robert: This text is now purple: They're using PR-friendly shields (women), obstructing larger government vehicles with much smaller sacrificial targets, occupying government land,

1. There were no shields, the difference between the klan militias and OWS is the occupy protesters had a large percentage of women. They were not asked to be shields and there was no pr to create anything of the sort

2. Zuccotti Park was not public land

So not only are you misinformed about the Bundy situation but you can't even get your facts right about OWS. Is it really a surprise people who are uneducated about a topic almost always have conservative viewpoints?


Well, except for the guy that SPECIFICALLY said that they were thinking about putting unarmed women out front as shields, that is.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bundy-ranch-women-human-shield
 
2014-04-23 07:07:45 PM  

Baz744: RanDomino: IlGreven: /Used to be, civil disobedience meant you let yourself be arrested, so you could fix the law through the courts.

False.

Actually, that is entirely true. At least the "let yourself be arrested" part. Maybe you want to resolve the issue in the courts. But at least as Gandhi used the term, the purpose was to arouse the conscience of the community. He specified that peacefully accepting the consequences of civil disobedience was part of civil disobedience.


I don't think the community has a conscience anymore. Ghandi style won't work here.
 
2014-04-23 07:08:05 PM  

RedVentrue: OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.


So if only OWS was armed to the teeth, they would have got their way and wouldn't have been targeted even heavier by the law? In what universe?
 
2014-04-23 07:09:46 PM  

Grungehamster: JC22: My view is if the guy is breaking the law, then put a lien on his stuff. But to show up in that type of force is absolutely ridiculous and something else is going on and most likely it involves Reid and the solar farm from the Chinese.

Everyone already explained about the solar power myth, but I want some clarification on what "type of force" BLM sent out there according to you? Sure Bundy's claimed there were 2,000 feds "surrounding" his ranch (which suggests a raid on his land instead of him and his supporters having to travel onto the Bunkerville Allotment in order to protest and later confront them corralling cattle that were to be be removed from the land by court order 6 months ago), but do you have evidence of a massive show of force by the Feds in this case?

The most officers I've seen in any pictures from the standoff is about 15; three dudes in camo body armor and rifles and the other dozen guys are in brown plain clothes uniforms with a holstered handgun as part of it (basically they looked like county deputies if you didn't know otherwise.) If you can show some evidence that there was this big show of force by BLM to intimidate the Bundys I'd sure appreciate the proof.


I'd like to see the supposed snipers, too. So far the closest thing to a sniper is the militia dude we keep re-posting.

I wonder if the Op will be able to produce one.
 
2014-04-23 07:11:08 PM  

This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: You mean after they were attacked?

Today, a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV and the truck's exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle. A police dog was also kicked.

You're concerned about an ATV striking a Freightliner (watch the video) dump body that likely weighs the better part of 30 tons?

That's like attacking my foot with your face.

Well in that case it's totally OK for them to ram it and block off the vehicle.

In a longer response, what seems to irk you the most is that the Tea Party type has started to co-opt OWS-like tactics. They're using PR-friendly shields (women), obstructing larger government vehicles with much smaller sacrificial targets, occupying government land, playing up the PR attack on the much-better armed federal response. It never looks good when you have a photo of a dog going after someone, no matter what came before or after. This is straight out of the OWS playbook. They're daring the government to start firing first. And so long as they don't fire first, it will work.

You don't hate the game, you hate the player.


When did OWS use human shields?
 
2014-04-23 07:13:36 PM  
Imagine if these people were black...
 
2014-04-23 07:15:12 PM  

RedVentrue: Baz744: RanDomino: IlGreven: /Used to be, civil disobedience meant you let yourself be arrested, so you could fix the law through the courts.

False.

Actually, that is entirely true. At least the "let yourself be arrested" part. Maybe you want to resolve the issue in the courts. But at least as Gandhi used the term, the purpose was to arouse the conscience of the community. He specified that peacefully accepting the consequences of civil disobedience was part of civil disobedience.

I don't think the community has a conscience anymore. Ghandi style won't work here.


 Maybe. I think that overstates it at least some. We're a ways off from full social justice. But we're an even farther ways off from Nazi Germany if you ask me. For various reasons, including factors like media saturation and people working too many hours to pay attention, it's harder to get the community's notice now.
 
2014-04-23 07:18:08 PM  

This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: You mean after they were attacked?

Today, a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV and the truck's exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle. A police dog was also kicked.

You're concerned about an ATV striking a Freightliner (watch the video) dump body that likely weighs the better part of 30 tons?

That's like attacking my foot with your face.

Well in that case it's totally OK for them to ram it and block off the vehicle.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x429]
You tell me.


So you're saying they should have run the protesters over?
 
2014-04-23 07:21:06 PM  

RedVentrue: Serious Black: You didn't destroy property and weren't arrested because BLM agents assumed (probably correctly) that you would try to murder them if they didn't de-escalate the situation. Last I checked, nobody in OWS waved guns in the faces of federal agents and dared them to play chicken.

OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

It makes the gov think twice before jackbooting.


It equally impedes the just enforcement of constitutionally permissible laws against self-entitled jackholes who think they have a unilateral right to determine usage disposition over lawfully held and administrated public land.

Like in the Bundy case, for example.
 
2014-04-23 07:24:21 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Imagine if these people were black...


Imagine if the POTUS was a Republican...
 
2014-04-23 07:26:16 PM  

Mantour: HST's Dead Carcass: Imagine if these people were black...

Imagine if the POTUS was a Republican...


Then none of this would have happened because team shiat-wizard would have nothing to bleat about.
 
2014-04-23 07:26:23 PM  

Bob Robert: RedVentrue: OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

So if only OWS was armed to the teeth, they would have got their way and wouldn't have been targeted even heavier by the law? In what universe?


I think they would have thought twice about being so heavy handed. Some sort of compromise might have been reached.
 
2014-04-23 07:27:12 PM  

This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: This text is now purple: Fart_Machine: You mean after they were attacked?

Today, a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV and the truck's exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle. A police dog was also kicked.

You're concerned about an ATV striking a Freightliner (watch the video) dump body that likely weighs the better part of 30 tons?

That's like attacking my foot with your face.

Well in that case it's totally OK for them to ram it and block off the vehicle.

In a longer response, what seems to irk you the most is that the Tea Party type has started to co-opt OWS-like tactics. They're using PR-friendly shields (women), obstructing larger government vehicles with much smaller sacrificial targets, occupying government land, playing up the PR attack on the much-better armed federal response. It never looks good when you have a photo of a dog going after someone, no matter what came before or after. This is straight out of the OWS playbook. They're daring the government to start firing first. And so long as they don't fire first, it will work.

You don't hate the game, you hate the player.


Except that OWS never used women as human shields, ramming vehicles, or pointing guns and threatening Federal employees and police.  Otherwise it's totally the same thing.

/roll eyes
 
2014-04-23 07:28:41 PM  

Bob Robert: Do you feel these are unjust laws being used against the Bundy klan?


I'm just talking about the strategy of civil disobedience. For the record I will say that Bundy and his mob are scum.

udhq: Um, no.


What specific point are you trying to get across

Baz744: Actually, that is entirely true. At least the "let yourself be arrested" part. Maybe you want to resolve the issue in the courts. But at least as Gandhi used the term, the purpose was to arouse the conscience of the community. He specified that peacefully accepting the consequences of civil disobedience was part of civil disobedience.


First, fun fact everyone: Civil Disobedience strategies existed before MLK and Gandhi. Such as the Free Speech campaigns by the IWW.

Anyway, I wasn't disputing the "let yourself be arrested" part, but merely saying that that is not the ONLY plan that falls under the umbrella of "civil disobedience". For example a plan of breaking laws in order to get beaten down on camera in order to make the police look bad is a civil disobedience strategy that doesn't necessarily involve the courts.
 
2014-04-23 07:29:38 PM  
The Ballad of Craven Cliven
(to the tune of The Ballad of Irving)

He was old and fat and rode out of the West,
That welfare cowboy wailed "help, I'm oppressed!"
A parasite moocher rollin' in the dough,
Sure loved his wife (just to hide behind though).

They called him Bundy.
Fat Bundy.
Welfare Bundy.
Chickens**t Bundy.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Fat Bundy knew what was his by right
Everything federal within his sight.
"I should have rights the little folks don't
"They pay their grazing fees but I sure won't."

Bundy.
Sponging Bundy.
Entitled Bundy.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Then Big Bad Fed he waltzed into town
His aim was to take Fat Bundy's cows.
Big Bad Fed said "you gotta pay your bills."
Fat Bundy said "I can't, I ain't got no skills!"

Bundy.
Welfare Bundy.
Chickens**t Bundy.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Fat Bundy called some militia thugs:
"I need dumbs**ts to take some slugs,
"They say I'm a coward, but my name is Clive,
"And I'm just using folks so I'll survive!"

They called him Cliven.
Rat Cliven.
Low down Cliven.
Cowardly Cliven.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Said Fat Bundy "now it's time to draw down,"
But once he saw Fed's gun his pants turned brown.
Said Fat Bundy when he knew he couldn't flee,
"A woman's place? It's in front of me!"

Cliven.
Craven Cliven.
Cowardly Cliven.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Big Bad Fed really wasn't so bad:
"To gun down Clive's womenfolk would make me sad.
"Killing some civilians ain't worth no cows.
"I'll just choose to let this go (for now)."

Bundy.
Fat Bundy.
Welfare Bundy.
The fattest most craven welfare cheat (two beat pause) in the West.

Big Fat Bundy damn he sure is dumb
He thinks Fed's drawback means now he's won
Into the future he does not foresee
His coming life in Florence penitentiary

They'll call him Cliven.
Punk Cliven.
Inmate Cliven.
Salad toss Cliven
When it comes to squealing like a little pig (two beat pause) he'll be best.
 
2014-04-23 07:33:45 PM  

RedVentrue: Bob Robert: RedVentrue: OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

So if only OWS was armed to the teeth, they would have got their way and wouldn't have been targeted even heavier by the law? In what universe?

I think they would have thought twice about being so heavy handed. Some sort of compromise might have been reached.


Yes, armed protesters attacking police would totally not have escalated the situation.
 
2014-04-23 07:36:22 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Imagine if these people were black...


Yes, imagine.....

From the article:  "In 1985 the group made national news when police dropped a bomb on the Osage house from a helicopter in an attempt to end an armed impasse.
 
2014-04-23 07:40:19 PM  

RanDomino: Bob Robert: Do you feel these are unjust laws being used against the Bundy klan?

I'm just talking about the strategy of civil disobedience. For the record I will say that Bundy and his mob are scum.

udhq: Um, no.

What specific point are you trying to get across

Baz744: Actually, that is entirely true. At least the "let yourself be arrested" part. Maybe you want to resolve the issue in the courts. But at least as Gandhi used the term, the purpose was to arouse the conscience of the community. He specified that peacefully accepting the consequences of civil disobedience was part of civil disobedience.

First, fun fact everyone: Civil Disobedience strategies existed before MLK and Gandhi. Such as the Free Speech campaigns by the IWW.

Anyway, I wasn't disputing the "let yourself be arrested" part, but merely saying that that is not the ONLY plan that falls under the umbrella of "civil disobedience". For example a plan of breaking laws in order to get beaten down on camera in order to make the police look bad is a civil disobedience strategy that doesn't necessarily involve the courts.


The Wobblies were met with murder for their efforts. Had they put on an armed display of resistance, the government would have killed or imprisined all of them, their associates and sympathizers.

Bundy got a free pass. OWS would have been violently put down had they presented a single weapon. Witness the WTO riot in Seattle: clearly the cops are more than willing to start a riot so they can finish it.
 
2014-04-23 07:41:09 PM  

RanDomino: What specific point are you trying to get across


That neither MLK nor Ghandi threatened to start shooting cops for doing their jobs.  What these people are doing isn't civil disobedience, it's armed robbery by a bunch of violent thugs.
 
2014-04-23 07:42:03 PM  

dr_blasto: RanDomino: Bob Robert: Do you feel these are unjust laws being used against the Bundy klan?

I'm just talking about the strategy of civil disobedience. For the record I will say that Bundy and his mob are scum.

udhq: Um, no.

What specific point are you trying to get across

Baz744: Actually, that is entirely true. At least the "let yourself be arrested" part. Maybe you want to resolve the issue in the courts. But at least as Gandhi used the term, the purpose was to arouse the conscience of the community. He specified that peacefully accepting the consequences of civil disobedience was part of civil disobedience.

First, fun fact everyone: Civil Disobedience strategies existed before MLK and Gandhi. Such as the Free Speech campaigns by the IWW.

Anyway, I wasn't disputing the "let yourself be arrested" part, but merely saying that that is not the ONLY plan that falls under the umbrella of "civil disobedience". For example a plan of breaking laws in order to get beaten down on camera in order to make the police look bad is a civil disobedience strategy that doesn't necessarily involve the courts.

The Wobblies were met with murder for their efforts. Had they put on an armed display of resistance, the government would have killed or imprisined all of them, their associates and sympathizers.

Bundy got a free pass. OWS would have been violently put down had they presented a single weapon. Witness the WTO riot in Seattle: clearly the cops are more than willing to start a riot so they can finish it.


Pretend I put the letter "o" in imprisoned. It's just easier that way.
 
2014-04-23 07:43:34 PM  
Fat white bearded men with a second amendment obsession who feel threatened by minorities are the biggest problem in America. Period.
 
2014-04-23 07:43:44 PM  

Fart_Machine: RedVentrue: Bob Robert: RedVentrue: OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

So if only OWS was armed to the teeth, they would have got their way and wouldn't have been targeted even heavier by the law? In what universe?

I think they would have thought twice about being so heavy handed. Some sort of compromise might have been reached.

Yes, armed protesters attacking police would totally not have escalated the situation.


The alternative is armed police killing protesters. Is that better?
 
2014-04-23 07:44:32 PM  
"I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

images.dailykos.com

Funny how his Passionate Defenders are desperately trying to extract some reason or philosophy from this idiot's actions. He just doesn't want to pay his bills. All there is to it.
 
2014-04-23 07:47:51 PM  

RanDomino: First, fun fact everyone: Civil Disobedience strategies existed before MLK and Gandhi. Such as the Free Speech campaigns by the IWW.


The earliest use of the term that I know of was by Henry David Thoreau. He too indicated that peacefully accepting the penalty is part of it. Even in your "police beatdown" situation, it wouldn't be effective to make the police look bad if you fought back. You have to let them beat you down in order to demonstrate the injustice of it.

f one thousand, if one hundred, if ten men whom I could name - if ten honest men only - ay, if one HONEST man, in this State of Massachusetts, ceasing to hold slaves, were actually to withdraw from this copartnership, and be locked up in the county jail therefor, it would be the abolition of slavery in America.


Anyway, I wasn't disputing the "let yourself be arrested" part, but merely saying that that is not the ONLY plan that falls under the umbrella of "civil disobedience".

Well, it kind of looked like you were saying that being arrested isn't part of civil disobedience. Because that's what the post you answered asserted--that being arrested is part of civil disobedience. And you began your response to that post with the word "false." So I took that "false" to mean "your assertion that accepting the consequences of civil disobedience is part of civil disobedience is false."
 
2014-04-23 07:50:00 PM  

impaler: "Mr. Bundy is providing the country with beef."

I'm sure all the other cattle ranchers, who this leech scum undercuts, have something to say about this.


Not a single one of his neighbor ranchers showed up for his little protest march.
They all think he's a thieving shiat and making things most likely turn out bad for their "legal" operations.
 
2014-04-23 07:50:36 PM  

AcademGreen: [img.fark.net image 383x480]
/Beef?


I'd rope his steer and ride it, if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He may not be straight but I have a decent visual. TYSVM.
 
2014-04-23 07:52:34 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

[images.dailykos.com image 550x367]

Funny how his Passionate Defenders are desperately trying to extract some reason or philosophy from this idiot's actions. He just doesn't want to pay his bills. All there is to it.


You have to remember: that's the flag of Real America. These people are Real Americans. It's United Statesians they can't abide by and want to secede from.
 
2014-04-23 07:54:20 PM  
I love these Bundy threads.
 
2014-04-23 07:54:35 PM  

Baz744: RedVentrue: Serious Black: You didn't destroy property and weren't arrested because BLM agents assumed (probably correctly) that you would try to murder them if they didn't de-escalate the situation. Last I checked, nobody in OWS waved guns in the faces of federal agents and dared them to play chicken.

OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

It makes the gov think twice before jackbooting.

It equally impedes the just enforcement of constitutionally permissible laws against self-entitled jackholes who think they have a unilateral right to determine usage disposition over lawfully held and administrated public land.

Like in the Bundy case, for example.


I'm not saying Bundy was right, or even justified. I'm saying he was effective.
 
2014-04-23 07:55:39 PM  
Your dog wants Bill O'Reilly?
 
2014-04-23 07:56:27 PM  

RedVentrue: Fart_Machine: RedVentrue: Bob Robert: RedVentrue: OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

So if only OWS was armed to the teeth, they would have got their way and wouldn't have been targeted even heavier by the law? In what universe?

I think they would have thought twice about being so heavy handed. Some sort of compromise might have been reached.

Yes, armed protesters attacking police would totally not have escalated the situation.

The alternative is armed police killing protesters. Is that better?


Where did armed police kill protesters?
 
2014-04-23 07:59:48 PM  

HawgWild: I love these Bundy threads.


So do I. But 238+ comments in and NOBODY has posted this yet?:

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com

C'mon, Farkers.
 
2014-04-23 07:59:59 PM  

RedVentrue: Baz744: RedVentrue: Serious Black: You didn't destroy property and weren't arrested because BLM agents assumed (probably correctly) that you would try to murder them if they didn't de-escalate the situation. Last I checked, nobody in OWS waved guns in the faces of federal agents and dared them to play chicken.

OWS got thier arse kicked all over. This is why the 2nd is important.

It makes the gov think twice before jackbooting.

It equally impedes the just enforcement of constitutionally permissible laws against self-entitled jackholes who think they have a unilateral right to determine usage disposition over lawfully held and administrated public land.

Like in the Bundy case, for example.

I'm not saying Bundy was right, or even justified. I'm saying he was effective.


Maybe in a 'win the battle, lose the war' kind of way. No long-term outlook for him is positive.
 
2014-04-23 08:03:15 PM  

dr_blasto: The Wobblies were met with murder for their efforts. Had they put on an armed display of resistance, the government would have killed or imprisined all of them, their associates and sympathizers.

Bundy got a free pass. OWS would have been violently put down had they presented a single weapon. Witness the WTO riot in Seattle: clearly the cops are more than willing to start a riot so they can finish it.


Yeah, not all cities pre represented by assholes. It's Ironic that Seattle with it's hippie vibe responded exactly opposite to Salt Lake,  considering how Red Utah is.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home2/53155068-183/burbank-chief-lake-s al t.html.csp
 
2014-04-23 08:05:11 PM  

Grungehamster: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

[images.dailykos.com image 550x367]

Funny how his Passionate Defenders are desperately trying to extract some reason or philosophy from this idiot's actions. He just doesn't want to pay his bills. All there is to it.

You have to remember: that's the flag of Real America. These people are Real Americans. It's United Statesians they can't abide by and want to secede from.


Has that flag got gold fringe on it?
 
2014-04-23 08:10:41 PM  
Why are they even bothering to interview people like this? Was he expecting a well thought out and reasoned answer? I bet when this guy burps it smells like bud light and bologna sandwiches.
 
2014-04-23 08:16:50 PM  

Mikey1969: dr_blasto: The Wobblies were met with murder for their efforts. Had they put on an armed display of resistance, the government would have killed or imprisined all of them, their associates and sympathizers.

Bundy got a free pass. OWS would have been violently put down had they presented a single weapon. Witness the WTO riot in Seattle: clearly the cops are more than willing to start a riot so they can finish it.

Yeah, not all cities pre represented by assholes. It's Ironic that Seattle with it's hippie vibe responded exactly opposite to Salt Lake,  considering how Red Utah is.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home2/53155068-183/burbank-chief-lake-s al t.html.csp


Oh, certainly. But seattle's cop shop already had notoriety. They were clearly pissed that people had the hall to protest the WTO meeting their city government had worked hard to land. Clinton was in town, it was a big deal.

They tried to blame it on black-flag from Eugene. Video showed the cops starting the violence.
 
2014-04-23 08:18:21 PM  
I think we've learned two things from this episode.

1.  These ranchers are Grade-A assholes and local authorities should be working to separate them from the pack and arresting them over the standoff.

2.  Harry Ried is (still) a grandstanding shiatbag.
 
2014-04-23 08:19:30 PM  

udhq: That neither MLK nor Ghandi threatened to start shooting cops for doing their jobs.  What these people are doing isn't civil disobedience, it's armed robbery by a bunch of violent thugs.

The claim was that civil disobedience = get arrested and then challenge the laws through courts. I said that that is not true. I did not say that what these people are doing is civil disobedience.

Baz744: Well, it kind of looked like you were saying that being arrested isn't part of civil disobedience. Because that's what the post you answered asserted--that being arrested is part of civil disobedience. And you began your response to that post with the word "false." So I took that "false" to mean "your assertion that accepting the consequences of civil disobedience is part of civil disobedience is false."

Okay, I could have been more clear then. Yes, if you're under arrest and you're doing a civil disobedience strategy, then peacefully accept that arrest or else it's no longer "civil" disobedience. However, not every civil disobedience strategy necessarily includes a section that looks like "Step 4: Everyone gets arrested".
Civil disobedience nearly always means an extremely high chance of getting arrested, but not necessarily. For example, if you've determined that the police will only be able to bring in enough arrestee transport buses to carry 300 people, but you've got 3000 people in an arrestable situation, it's likely that a lot of those people won't be getting arrested.

And, again, sometimes the point of civil disobedience is social rather than legal, such as to humiliate the powers that be in order to compel them to back off (and/or to induce an Emperor Has No Clothes moment); or indirectly economic such as costing a city a fortune in police overtime. Imagine if half of the population would have refused to pay taxes as a protest against the invasion of Mexico- then it would have gone from being a purely moralistic stance to being a real strategy to end the war.

The only reason I'm making a big fuss about this is that I hate it when people make arguments that imply that the only way that change happens is that people ask nicely for politicians or bureaucrats to do something. Particularly in a thread about a guy who is getting his way by not playing by the rules.
 
2014-04-23 08:19:42 PM  

GoldSpider: I think we've learned two things from this episode.

1.  These ranchers are Grade-A assholes and local authorities should be working to separate them from the pack and arresting them over the standoff.

2.  Harry Ried is (still) a grandstanding shiatbag.


Militia guys should be up on felony charges as well.
 
2014-04-23 08:22:21 PM  
Fine...just keep confiscated the cattle from his ranch that's on BLM land. Eventually the dude will die off and his family will pay the grazing fee that EVERYONE else pays in the BLM system near his ranch.

If you don't want your cattle taken---then keep the damn things off federal land unless you pay a fee for using that land....heck even people that Camp on federal land pay a camping fee.
 
2014-04-23 08:24:14 PM  

dr_blasto: Militia guys should be up on felony charges as well.


At least felony obstruction.
 
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