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(The Local)   Germany warns of war in Europe. This is not a repeat from 1938   (thelocal.de) divider line 184
    More: Interesting, Europe, Prime Minister of France, newspapers in Switzerland, Angela Merkel, vice chancellors  
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11901 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2014 at 1:46 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-23 03:19:05 PM  

hardinparamedic: Europe as a whole has spent 59 years since the end of WWII gearing up towards one thing, and one thing only: Keeping the Russians from driving them into the Atlantic off the tip of Spain. Every piece of military equipment that Western Europe has built has been designed to fight the Russian Military and their equipment, right down to the size of the guns and width of the hull of their tanks.

NATO, as a whole, is not concerned with taking land, invading countries, or waging aggressive war on the Russians. Their entire goal andexistence is to keep the Russians, especially Russianultra-nationalists, from doing it to them.


Of course the Russian people don't want to invade Europe and are afraid of NATO invading them.  Both sides leaders lie to their people to justify massive military spending.  Just the way the Central Bankers want it so they continue to profit off their economic system of usury and enslavement to debt.  It has worked for hundreds of years.  See "All Wars are Bankers wars".
 
2014-04-23 03:19:53 PM  

namegoeshere: steppenwolf: namegoeshere: Germany might just know a thing or two about war in Europe. And Hawaii, after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

I really hope this is a troll.

I really, really hope your response is...


Leave him alone, he's on a roll.
 
2014-04-23 03:24:12 PM  
Some of you folk need to look up the word "pedant"
 
2014-04-23 03:25:56 PM  

LoneDoggie: MooseBayou: I see your tanks, and I raise you one warthog
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
I love this image.

I find it hard to believe there are any portions of that plane you can't step on or stomp on or hit with a hammer at will...


And yet you can shoot the living piss outta the thing and it just keeps flying.  Damn fine aircraft.
 
2014-04-23 03:26:31 PM  

steppenwolf: namegoeshere: Germany might just know a thing or two about war in Europe. And Hawaii, after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

I really hope this is a troll.


i think it was an "animal house" reference.
 
2014-04-23 03:29:36 PM  

genepool lifeboat: There's too many of us


Nice name you got there.

/Blame it on the middle-class!
 
2014-04-23 03:32:17 PM  

flynn80: Of course the Russian people don't want to invade Europe and are afraid of NATO invading them.  Both sides leaders lie to their people to justify massive military spending.  Just the way the Central Bankers want it so they continue to profit off their economic system of usury and enslavement to debt.  It has worked for hundreds of years.  See "All Wars are Bankers wars".


Of course! Geopolitics are able to be so grossly simplified, it's just OBVIOUS! Money is the only manipulating factor in everything!

You left out which group the nefarious "bankers" belong to.
 
2014-04-23 03:35:30 PM  

ferretman: MaudlinMutantMollusk: As I recall, getting in a fight with Russia didn't work out so well for Germany last time

/just sayin'

Only beacuse American was providing material support to Russia in the form of trucks, food, equipment, etc. as well as America (as well as others) invading Occupied France and North Africa.


Thank God for the Americans.  They saved the world from the Nazis, invented pretty much all the coolest stuff (internet included).  I know it's cool to hate on them, but everywhere I look I see McDonald's, Papa Johns, and everyone watching American movies, while wearing American brands, while saying how they don't like America.

USA!  USA!
 
2014-04-23 03:35:47 PM  
Hail Hydra!


/no wait....
 
2014-04-23 03:39:16 PM  

Rent Party: dittybopper: MaudlinMutantMollusk: As I recall, getting in a fight with Russia didn't work out so well for Germany last time

/just sayin'

Actually, it did work out well for them.  Until their allies the Japanese screwed them over in two distinct ways:

1. They attacked the United States, which meant that the US wasn't just a bystander anymore.  This meant billions of aid (in today's dollars) to the Soviet Union, without which they couldn't have fought effectively against the Germans.  It would have been a reprise of the Eastern Front of WWI, when the Russians had to sue for peace.

Your timeline is all fooked up.

Germany didn't invade Russia until nine months after Pearl Harbor.    The Japanese and the Russians held a strict neutrality pact for the vast majority of the war.  Russia broke it after Germany surrendered.


The Japanese attacked Russia twice....getting crushed and suing for peace both times.
 
2014-04-23 03:40:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: flynn80: Of course the Russian people don't want to invade Europe and are afraid of NATO invading them.  Both sides leaders lie to their people to justify massive military spending.  Just the way the Central Bankers want it so they continue to profit off their economic system of usury and enslavement to debt.  It has worked for hundreds of years.  See "All Wars are Bankers wars".

Of course! Geopolitics are able to be so grossly simplified, it's just OBVIOUS! Money is the only manipulating factor in everything!

You left out which group the nefarious "bankers" belong to.


In fairness, if you look for it, you can find money as the major motivation behind pretty much every conflict ever.  Money/Wealth/Power - but it's all basically the same.
 
2014-04-23 03:41:45 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Thank God for the Americans.


While I know you're being sarcastic, but the only thing that allowed the Russians to win WWII in Europe was the massive influx of lend-lease agreement materials, equipment, resources and weapons while they executed what was - at that time - one of the largest and most technologically challenging industrial base relocation efforts in the history of the industrialized world.

The United States also kept the UK alive until the end of the Africa offensive.

We may not have done all the fighting and dying, but we did a lot of the manufacturing.
 
2014-04-23 03:41:54 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: ferretman: MaudlinMutantMollusk: As I recall, getting in a fight with Russia didn't work out so well for Germany last time

/just sayin'

Only beacuse American was providing material support to Russia in the form of trucks, food, equipment, etc. as well as America (as well as others) invading Occupied France and North Africa.

Thank God for the Americans.  They saved the world from the Nazis, invented pretty much all the coolest stuff (internet included).  I know it's cool to hate on them, but everywhere I look I see McDonald's, Papa Johns, and everyone watching American movies, while wearing American brands, while saying how they don't like America.

USA!  USA!


                                                               img.fark.net

 s2.quickmeme.com




AND TAKE MY MONEY




www.my-favorite-coloring.net

 
2014-04-23 03:43:45 PM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: Amish Tech Support: [img.fark.net image 500x692]

Where is this from?


I found it on some random stumbleupon web site. It's all death metal and shiat.
 
2014-04-23 03:45:04 PM  

Amish Tech Support: Fark like a Barsoomian: Amish Tech Support: [img.fark.net image 500x692]

Where is this from?

I found it on some random stumbleupon web site. It's all death metal and shiat.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-23 03:45:56 PM  
I feel it's only fair to post a few of these if we're going to have a tank thread.

ecache.ilbe.com

www.defencetalk.com

upload.wikimedia.org

media.moddb.com
 
2014-04-23 03:47:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: flynn80: Of course the Russian people don't want to invade Europe and are afraid of NATO invading them.  Both sides leaders lie to their people to justify massive military spending.  Just the way the Central Bankers want it so they continue to profit off their economic system of usury and enslavement to debt.  It has worked for hundreds of years.  See "All Wars are Bankers wars".

Of course! Geopolitics are able to be so grossly simplified, it's just OBVIOUS! Money is the only manipulating factor in everything!

You left out which group the nefarious "bankers" belong to.


They're with the Lizard People
 
2014-04-23 03:50:01 PM  

miniflea: I feel it's only fair to post a few of these if we're going to have a tank thread.

[ecache.ilbe.com image 850x553]

[www.defencetalk.com image 850x638]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x546]

[media.moddb.com image 850x603]


Ah, NATO Tank food. :)
 
2014-04-23 03:50:48 PM  

AngryDragon: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: "Heil Merkel" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Your German court summons is in the mail.

Let's say I'm in Moscow.  They can come get me.


Momentarily.

This whole thing is really creating quite a führer.
 
2014-04-23 03:51:26 PM  

miniflea: I feel it's only fair to post a few of these if we're going to have a tank thread.

[ecache.ilbe.com image 850x553]

[www.defencetalk.com image 850x638]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x546]

[media.moddb.com image 850x603]


The last one looks self-aware.  Nightmare inducing.

It's ... like ... he's ... LOOKING ... RIGHT ... AT ... ME !!!!!
 
2014-04-23 03:51:28 PM  

Fark like a Barsoomian: Um. Am I the only one remembering that the KGB sent Putin to Krautland and he loved it? (IIRC still speaks Germany.)
[justice4germans.files.wordpress.com image 850x480]



It would stand to reason that an Imperialist would hate other Imperialists.

Just wait until Japan redoes their Constitution to be more aggressive.  Let the party begin!
 
2014-04-23 03:51:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: groppet: namatad: FFS, France and Germany are talking about joining forces and mobilizing against Russia.
And so it begins.

Well they couldnt beat them on their own so guess they have to join forces to take on the bear.

Europe as a whole has spent 59 years since the end of WWII gearing up towards one thing, and one thing only: Keeping the Russians from driving them into the Atlantic off the tip of Spain.  Every piece of military equipment that Western Europe has built has been designed to fight the Russian Military and their equipment, right down to the size of the guns and width of the hull of their tanks.

NATO, as a whole, is not concerned with taking land, invading countries, or waging aggressive war on the Russians. Their entire goal andexistence is to keep the Russians, especially Russianultra-nationalists, from doing it to them.


As a former RCT driver/radio operator, 1ADTR, based in Bunde, West Germany '88 - '90...

This!
 
2014-04-23 03:54:27 PM  
I just won't feel the same unless Germany is on the other side of WWIII. It's like that one sequel to Halloween that was about computers or whatever and Michael Myers wasn't in it. Lame.
 
2014-04-23 03:57:26 PM  
Like, c'mon...they invented world wars so that the French could fight everybody, but they didn't even get to do anything the second time! Don't take zee Germans away from us!
 
2014-04-23 03:59:56 PM  

MooseBayou: I see your tanks, and I raise you one warthog

I love this image.


Why does every war thread have to have somebody jacking off to the warthog in it??  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees they are great.  DOn't you guys ever get tired of it?
 
2014-04-23 04:07:02 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: As I recall, getting in a fight with Russia didn't work out so well for Germany last time

/just sayin'


Russia had the US's help last time. This time we will be on Germany's side.

/just sayin'
 
2014-04-23 04:09:55 PM  

spawn73: This text is now purple: hardinparamedic: They also didn't hold their ground and re-enforce the gains they had made before the onset of winter. Had Hitler not been kill-hungry and tried to fight during the Russian Winter, held his ground and then broke out during the next spring, things might have been different.

In 1941 maybe. In 1942, Germany was just trying to hold on in Stalingrad but ran out of supplies. The USSR eventually completed the encirclement and they were screwed.

They meant to be encircled. It was a previous successful strategy as opposed to the tactical withdrawal.

The millitary problem for USSR would be that they would have to such a pocket to deal with.

In 1941 that tactic worked out brilliantly for the Germans, in 1942 the red air force were efficient enough to hamper supplies being delivered, and the size of the pocket was much larger.

---

They should have broken out when it was clear that it wasn't sustainable.


Come now man, even Hitler was smart enough to know that's bollocks.
 
2014-04-23 04:14:35 PM  

steppenwolf: namegoeshere: Germany might just know a thing or two about war in Europe. And Hawaii, after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

I really hope this is a troll.


Stick around. Eventually it's like, 'oh yeah, that again.'
 
2014-04-23 04:17:23 PM  
I haven't seen anything that suggests that any of the major European powers (like Germany) have made any increases to their defense budgets have they? They just make quotes like this: "Russia is apparently willing to let tanks cross European borders." In the hopes that SOMEBODY will do something.

/so today we sent troops from the 173rd Airborne to Poland
 
2014-04-23 04:17:42 PM  

This text is now purple: spawn73: This text is now purple: hardinparamedic: They also didn't hold their ground and re-enforce the gains they had made before the onset of winter. Had Hitler not been kill-hungry and tried to fight during the Russian Winter, held his ground and then broke out during the next spring, things might have been different.

In 1941 maybe. In 1942, Germany was just trying to hold on in Stalingrad but ran out of supplies. The USSR eventually completed the encirclement and they were screwed.

They meant to be encircled. It was a previous successful strategy as opposed to the tactical withdrawal.

The millitary problem for USSR would be that they would have to such a pocket to deal with.

In 1941 that tactic worked out brilliantly for the Germans, in 1942 the red air force were efficient enough to hamper supplies being delivered, and the size of the pocket was much larger.

---

They should have broken out when it was clear that it wasn't sustainable.

Come now man, even Hitler was smart enough to know that's bollocks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket

I'm just relaying German tactics to you, and the resoning for why it was used.

It wasn't bollocks at all, but it it failed.
 
2014-04-23 04:19:40 PM  

This text is now purple: spawn73: This text is now purple: hardinparamedic: They also didn't hold their ground and re-enforce the gains they had made before the onset of winter. Had Hitler not been kill-hungry and tried to fight during the Russian Winter, held his ground and then broke out during the next spring, things might have been different.

In 1941 maybe. In 1942, Germany was just trying to hold on in Stalingrad but ran out of supplies. The USSR eventually completed the encirclement and they were screwed.

They meant to be encircled. It was a previous successful strategy as opposed to the tactical withdrawal.

The millitary problem for USSR would be that they would have to such a pocket to deal with.

In 1941 that tactic worked out brilliantly for the Germans, in 1942 the red air force were efficient enough to hamper supplies being delivered, and the size of the pocket was much larger.

---

They should have broken out when it was clear that it wasn't sustainable.

Come now man, even Hitler was smart enough to know that's bollocks.


"The successful defence of Demyansk, achieved through the use of an  , was a significant development in modern warfare. The pocket demanded an inordinate response on the part of the Soviets, stalling offensive actions elsewhere. Its success was a major contributor to the decision to try the same tactic during the. Battle of Stalingrad"

I should have included that quote in the Weeners.

I don't think people click the links. So, sorry for the double reply.


All the same, the reason for Germany to use the tactic was sound. But reality had changed.
 
2014-04-23 04:21:23 PM  
QFTA:

This includes withdrawing troops from the Ukrainian border, lowering gas prices and using moderate language.

Now let's see. Which one of those is really the most important thing. The thing that if it was done, the other two could be forgotten.
 
2014-04-23 04:26:06 PM  

Doc Batarang: I just won't feel the same unless Germany is on the other side of WWIII. It's like that one sequel to Halloween that was about computers or whatever and Michael Myers wasn't in it. Lame.


If it makes you feel better I'm sure a few GIs will get into a bar brawl with a few Germans
 
2014-04-23 04:29:24 PM  

dk47: MooseBayou: I see your tanks, and I raise you one warthog

I love this image.

Why does every war thread have to have somebody jacking off to the warthog in it??  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees they are great.  DOn't you guys ever get tired of it?


Nah, they just switch hands
 
2014-04-23 04:32:50 PM  
Russia is not going to make an overt move in Donetsk etc like in Crimea. Ukraine is not going to invade Donetsk (or, if they do, the Kiev government's military will be defeated). Donetsk may or may not declare autonomy/independence (any of these three results- no declaration, declaration of autonomy, declaration of independence- will be effectively the same in practice). The war is over. See also: Abkhazia.
 
2014-04-23 04:33:03 PM  
All I know is that if we continue down this path, Euro 2016 is going to be a VERY interesting tournament!
 
2014-04-23 04:37:48 PM  
rebuild the wall!
 
2014-04-23 04:38:50 PM  
DAS IST RRRRACIST!!
 
2014-04-23 04:41:12 PM  

natas6.0: rebuild the wall!


"Mr. Gorbachev...."

Where is Zombie Reagan when you need him. Surely by now all the urine and feces left on his grave will have re-energized his rotting flesh and he will return to us, wide-awake, sentient and a defender of the free world.

/while nibbling on the occasional cerebellum
 
2014-04-23 04:45:11 PM  

MooseBayou: LewDux: RobertBruce: Is Biden pulling strings? I thought Crimea was lost and we could only hope the Russians go no further.  Now Biden says we will never recognize the annexation.

De jure it's lost. De facto we will never recognize the annexation


You have that the wrong way round, surely. In fact, Russia has annexed Crimea; legally, it shouldn't have.

Biden says.  Can you imagine that buffoon as POTUS?  He's a laughing stock.

Were you asleep from 2001-2008?
 
2014-04-23 04:49:23 PM  

MooseBayou: I see your tanks, and I raise you one warthog
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
I love this image.


While badass to be sure, the engineer in me loves this one:

www.temporalnexus.net

Take a look at that "Maximum Threat Anti-Armor Configuration."  Those are AGM-65 Mavericks, -K or -Ls... 17 of them.   Each one can defeat a tank by itself.
The GAU-8 30mm cannon also rains explosive death at 70 shells per second that can kill a tank with a half-second burst as well, and it carries 1,350 rounds of that.

This aircraft is a ravenous tank-eater.

/what a beauty
 
2014-04-23 04:53:01 PM  

LewDux: But that would mean that e DNRTFA, which I find extremely hard to believe


Inorite!??

;)
 
2014-04-23 04:56:58 PM  

spawn73: This text is now purple: spawn73: This text is now purple: hardinparamedic: They also didn't hold their ground and re-enforce the gains they had made before the onset of winter. Had Hitler not been kill-hungry and tried to fight during the Russian Winter, held his ground and then broke out during the next spring, things might have been different.

In 1941 maybe. In 1942, Germany was just trying to hold on in Stalingrad but ran out of supplies. The USSR eventually completed the encirclement and they were screwed.

They meant to be encircled. It was a previous successful strategy as opposed to the tactical withdrawal.

The millitary problem for USSR would be that they would have to such a pocket to deal with.

In 1941 that tactic worked out brilliantly for the Germans, in 1942 the red air force were efficient enough to hamper supplies being delivered, and the size of the pocket was much larger.

---

They should have broken out when it was clear that it wasn't sustainable.

Come now man, even Hitler was smart enough to know that's bollocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket

I'm just relaying German tactics to you, and the resoning for why it was used.

It wasn't bollocks at all, but it it failed.


Difficulty:

The Red Army was 4 times larger, was advancing through loose Romanian skirmish lines across unbroken sunflower fields and was at the German HQ within 60 hours of starting.

The Wehrmacht controlled one airfield and was skirmishing at the borders of it, and required 3x the supplies as Demyansk -- which itself had pushed the Luftwaffe to 100% transport capability.

Also -- there was no viable relief plan.

The only survivors were a Romanian panzergrenadier division who saw their chance and broke out before the western ring was closed.

6th Army's only hope was a breakout.
 
2014-04-23 04:58:29 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: It's all just talk until some emo thug from Australia starts gaining popularity with the socialist workers unions.


Australia? You are either very dumb or you are an auto-correct victim.

/I get your point though
 
2014-04-23 05:06:12 PM  

Marmilman: Also, for anyone who cares, Russian backed terrorist mayor of Slavyansk has kidnapped an American Journalist (Simon Ostrovsky of Vice News) and is currently holding him hostage. farking outrageous.


Why, what an excellent opportunity for Delta to perform a little field exercise...  thanks for the just cause, insurgent pieces of shiat.

But remember, we should listen to the majority 18% in Donetsk who want to secede and join Russia, they speak for all the people and they're all reasonable statesmen who just need to be heard.  Those people nobody recognizes who came to help?  Long-lost relatives, who all shop at the same outfitter.
 
2014-04-23 05:08:11 PM  
Fark like a Barsoomian:

Amish Tech Support:


Where is this from?

The Grim Reaper is from Metropolis by Fritz Lang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cag6CSo-g9c
 
2014-04-23 05:12:03 PM  

This text is now purple: spawn73: This text is now purple: spawn73: This text is now purple: hardinparamedic: They also didn't hold their ground and re-enforce the gains they had made before the onset of winter. Had Hitler not been kill-hungry and tried to fight during the Russian Winter, held his ground and then broke out during the next spring, things might have been different.

In 1941 maybe. In 1942, Germany was just trying to hold on in Stalingrad but ran out of supplies. The USSR eventually completed the encirclement and they were screwed.

They meant to be encircled. It was a previous successful strategy as opposed to the tactical withdrawal.

The millitary problem for USSR would be that they would have to such a pocket to deal with.

In 1941 that tactic worked out brilliantly for the Germans, in 1942 the red air force were efficient enough to hamper supplies being delivered, and the size of the pocket was much larger.

---

They should have broken out when it was clear that it wasn't sustainable.

Come now man, even Hitler was smart enough to know that's bollocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyansk_Pocket

I'm just relaying German tactics to you, and the resoning for why it was used.

It wasn't bollocks at all, but it it failed.

Difficulty:

The Red Army was 4 times larger, was advancing through loose Romanian skirmish lines across unbroken sunflower fields and was at the German HQ within 60 hours of starting.

The Wehrmacht controlled one airfield and was skirmishing at the borders of it, and required 3x the supplies as Demyansk -- which itself had pushed the Luftwaffe to 100% transport capability.

Also -- there was no viable relief plan.

The only survivors were a Romanian panzergrenadier division who saw their chance and broke out before the western ring was closed.

6th Army's only hope was a breakout.


As you are now aware, I am familiar with history as well.

I was just explaining you the reasoning behind why Germany choose this strategy.

Germany had the the opportunity to breakout after it became apparent that it was not sustainable, but probably on a combination of Goering assuring Hitler that his Luftwaffe could sustain it, and Hitlers paranoia/pride, it didn't happen.

Paulus was a farking coward, he should just have done it when the relief army came close. Yet whilst he was fine with sacrificing houndreds of thousands of German soldiers lives, he himself surrendered after being promoted to Field Marshall, despite the clear expectation was that he was to commit suicide.

And lived a pleasant life ever after (can't recall if he settled in East-Germany, or the Soviet Union).
 
2014-04-23 05:15:21 PM  
What an nasty mess.  On the other hand, it sure is pleasant sitting here in front of my keyboard shooting the shi@t about some potentially violent brouhaha I don't have to deal with nor take part in.
 
2014-04-23 05:18:17 PM  

MooseBayou: miniflea: I feel it's only fair to post a few of these if we're going to have a tank thread.

[ecache.ilbe.com image 850x553]

[www.defencetalk.com image 850x638]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x546]

[media.moddb.com image 850x603]

The last one looks self-aware.  Nightmare inducing.

It's ... like ... he's ... LOOKING ... RIGHT ... AT ... ME !!!!!


Who says he's not?

www.helma.us
 
2014-04-23 05:25:02 PM  

MooseBayou: I see your tanks, and I raise you one warthog
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
I love this image.


I see your slow flying artillery platform and raise you this:

gamingtrend.com

Lots of stuff that works well against an undersupplied, poorly trained Iraqi Army or guerillas with small arms isn't nearly as effective when you have to fight a country with an economy and modern equipment.
 
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