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(Think Progress)   The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated unless they are homeless and make customers feel icky   (thinkprogress.org ) divider line
    More: Florida, homeless, documents  
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1295 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Apr 2014 at 9:40 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-22 08:42:12 AM  
If the homeless people wish to retrieve their items, they must pay the city "reasonable charges for storage and removal of the items," though that fee is waived if the person is able to demonstrate he or she cannot afford to pay.

So jars of pee will be acceptable currency?
 
2014-04-22 09:54:40 AM  
Or if you're carrying cash.  Cops LOVE stealing cash.
 
2014-04-22 09:59:40 AM  
Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."


Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.
 
2014-04-22 09:59:51 AM  
In a way, this might actually reduce homelessness in Ft. Lauderdale.  After all, once these vagrants finish suing the city into penury for this bullshiat, they ought to have the scratch to buy a home (or two).
 
2014-04-22 10:00:42 AM  

RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.


Not to mention, are they going to start confiscating cars for parking on the curb?
 
2014-04-22 10:17:27 AM  

RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.


What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.
 
2014-04-22 10:30:26 AM  
Oh... I say... They do not know this one.

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.  He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true  riches? And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.  And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

I think that it is worth noting that Jesus uses the word abomination to describe the greed and hatefullness to the poor.  Never did I see the word used in any context about any sins of the flesh?  "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."  - Ghandi
 
2014-04-22 10:33:45 AM  
Specifically, it would empower police to confiscate any personal possessions stored on public property, provided they have given the homeless person 24-hours notice.


So what happens if they leave a shopping cartr full of stuff on public property now?


Giving them warning before they leave stuff in public seems very reasonable to me.
 
2014-04-22 10:37:11 AM  

manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.


They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.
 
2014-04-22 10:38:46 AM  
Ok, then they will just have to crash on private property.
 
2014-04-22 10:45:59 AM  
They are just following Nevada's lead of not allowing people to store animals on public property.
 
2014-04-22 10:49:25 AM  
 
2014-04-22 10:55:10 AM  

DeaH: manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.

They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.


For a good chunk of these folks, this isn't a problem of poverty, but one of mental illness.  We would put them in treatment facilities where they belong, but thanks to the deinstitutionalization movement that is not an option.
 
2014-04-22 11:02:22 AM  

TV's Vinnie: http://www.fark.com/comments/8138958/Running-out-of-other-ways-to-inf l ict-cruelty-on-poor-Florida-now-makes-it-illegal-for-homeless-to-cover -themselves-in-a-blanket-during-freezing-weather

Their seething hatred towards the poor knows no depths.


The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to cover themselves in a blanket or store their possessions on public property
 
2014-04-22 11:09:40 AM  
Don't leave your huge piles of nasty clothing and rotting food all over town. You have it all in a shopping cart, the shopping cart has wheels, you can take it with you.

/and don't you DARE start unpacking that filthy crap all over the sidewalk
 
2014-04-22 11:20:44 AM  

RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.


From the article, its clear they mean putting it down though.
 
2014-04-22 11:30:29 AM  

Cataholic: DeaH: manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.

They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.

For a good chunk of these folks, this isn't a problem of poverty, but one of mental illness.  We would put them in treatment facilities where they belong, but thanks to the deinstitutionalization movement that is not an option.


The Deinstitutionalisation Movement happened in the middle of the 20th century. What we're seeing is the effects of non-funding.
 
2014-04-22 11:45:13 AM  

manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.


"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France
 
2014-04-22 12:04:54 PM  
Broward County resident here. I suspect the idea here is to encourage them to trek south to Miami-Dade.  I moved to Miami a few years back from San Francisco, and was struck by there being virtually no homeless people on the street at night.

Which is because they have a well-funded program, financed by a tax of forty cents on every alcoholic beverage served in a bar (with an exemption for bars with revenue under $400K, to exempt small neighborhood joints).

It basically means tourists and the well-to-do finance a program for the homeless. It's centered in a large high rise, and has in one place housing, medical care, assistance with finding a job (including things like voicemail boxes and computers to access email).

Coming from San Francisco, where the homeless number in the thousands are are largely left to fend for themselves, it was a welcome surprise to discover I was in a place that was doing it right.

Now Broward could and should emulate this success, but instead they'll send their problems south and let someone else handle it, rather than anger local business interests who don't want the slight hit on prices and paperwork.
 
2014-04-22 12:32:46 PM  
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
"Californiaaa ..."
 
2014-04-22 12:40:14 PM  

manwithplanx: Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.


Actually criminalizing the behavior would be one guaranteed way of ending homlessness, if what they are doing is criminal you can put them in jail they are no longer homeless when they serve their debt to society repeat.
 
2014-04-22 12:45:24 PM  

DeaH: They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.



It's not a problem one town or city can address either.  Hell, by and large, the homeless population in Fort Lauderdale likely hails from many different locales, attracted to the area by relatively mild weather that is conducive to outdoor living.  Were Fort Lauderdale inclined to end homelessness in the city by providing ample shelter and resources you know what the likely result would be?  A flood of new homeless people from cities both near and far attracted by the prospect of such a program.  Hell, cities would likely send their homeless people to Fort Lauderdale then since the price of a bus ticket is cheaper than the actual program.
 
2014-04-22 12:52:18 PM  
Specifically, it would empower police to confiscate any personal possessions stored on public property, provided they have given the homeless person 24-hours notice

That's mighty generous of them. Here in my part of Indiana the police take possessions with no notice and have them incinerated. Homeless person leaves a bundle of blankets and whatnot outside that they desperately need because it's farking cold out but they can't take it into the library or other public facility with them? Confiscated. Go be homeless somewhere else.
 
2014-04-22 12:52:59 PM  

DeaH: Cataholic: DeaH: manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.

They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.

For a good chunk of these folks, this isn't a problem of poverty, but one of mental illness.  We would put them in treatment facilities where they belong, but thanks to the deinstitutionalization movement that is not an option.

The Deinstitutionalisation Movement happened in the middle of the 20th century. What we're seeing is the effects of non-funding.


Paying for more beds that people do not wish to stay in isn't going to solve the problem.  We have to find some way to make the unstable remain in treatment beyond "my meds are working now, let me go."
 
2014-04-22 12:55:06 PM  

Cataholic: DeaH: Cataholic: DeaH: manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.

They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.

For a good chunk of these folks, this isn't a problem of poverty, but one of mental illness.  We would put them in treatment facilities where they belong, but thanks to the deinstitutionalization movement that is not an option.

The Deinstitutionalisation Movement happened in the middle of the 20th century. What we're seeing is the effects of non-funding.

Paying for more beds that people do not wish to stay in isn't going to solve the problem.  We have to find some way to make the unstable remain in treatment beyond "my meds are working now, let me go."


Letting people out of institutions is now more a matter of not enough money than not enough law. If you confine them, where are you going to do it? Right now, communities are using jails, and it is not working. We need more beds.
 
2014-04-22 01:07:22 PM  
Why is this even needed?   Just throw littering charges at them.
 
2014-04-22 02:13:59 PM  

Saiga410: Why is this even needed?   Just throw littering charges at them.


Because the point is to drive them out of town.  If you ticket them for littering, all you are doing is telling the dude without money to pay you money.  And if he racks up enough tickets, you put him in a nice, warm jail cell. So, now you are effectively paying him for creature comforts.  But if you just keep confiscating anything he owns, then he will eventually move out of your jurisdiction because he would like to at least have a blanket to sleep under.  And once he crosses out of your jurisdiction, you don't give a flying fark about what happens to him.
 
2014-04-22 03:06:58 PM  
DeaH:
Letting people out of institutions is now more a matter of not enough money than not enough law. If you confine them, where are you going to do it? Right now, communities are using jails, and it is not working. We need more beds.

Funny, we have enough money to pay for an insanely high incarceration rate, but not enough money to treat the mentally ill.
 
2014-04-22 03:55:23 PM  

patrick767: DeaH:
Letting people out of institutions is now more a matter of not enough money than not enough law. If you confine them, where are you going to do it? Right now, communities are using jails, and it is not working. We need more beds.

Funny, we have enough money to pay for an insanely high incarceration rate, but not enough money to treat the mentally ill.


Jail is cheaper than doctors, medicine, and hospitals. It's also a lot less effective.
 
2014-04-22 04:14:30 PM  

Cataholic: DeaH: manwithplanx: RussianPooper: Yet the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida is on the cusp of passing a new regulation that would make it illegal for anyone to store their personal things on public property.

One woman, Gazol Tajalli, told Commissioners that is "insanity that we are even here discussing whether an individual can put on the ground the few objects that they own."

Putting your stuff down is not the same as storing it somewhere.

What's the definition of storing it? Should a homeless man, without means to pay for a roof over his head, be expected to secure private storage for his few, meager possessions, before finding an abandoned building to curl up in? Criminalizing the behavior of homeless people will not stop them from being homeless.

They don't want to give the man a home; they want him to do his homelessing somewhere else. One doesn't want to end poverty. One simply does not want to look at it.

/Sadly, I have hear that last statement uttered.

For a good chunk of these folks, this isn't a problem of poverty, but one of mental illness.  We would put them in treatment facilities where they belong, but thanks to the deinstitutionalization movement that is not an option.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWDhGydkp24

(what it would look like)
 
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