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(PennLive)   Man dies from gunshot wounds...22 years after he was shot   (pennlive.com) divider line 74
    More: Sad, gunshot wound, medical examiners  
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10986 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2014 at 10:28 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-22 11:39:25 AM  

DarkVader: BafflerMeal: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


Yes.  If death is a direct result of the shooting, yes.

No, absolutely not.

If he had not been convicted of anything from the initial act, they could charge him.  But if he's already been convicted (or acquitted) of a crime based on the initial act, they cannot bring new charges.  It is not a separate crime.  Had the guy died after he was charged with assault but before he was convicted, they could add a murder or manslaughter charge.  But they don't get a "second bite of the apple" once the verdict is in.

"Considering" new charges doesn't mean that the prosecutor is actually stupid enough to file them.  It likely just means that some cop made an uneducated comment to a reporter.


This is Hickville, PA we're talking about here, DV. Annoying little things like "double jeopardy" don't often enter into the thought processes of those bringing charges.
 
2014-04-22 11:40:04 AM  

GoldSpider: BitwiseShift: So the DA, I forget his name, wants to make news with a 22-year-old case and some local police chief can't be bothered by the KKK running amuck within shouting distance of teh Gettysburg killing fields.

If you're aware of a crime that has been committed, perhaps you should call the police.


DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE.
 
2014-04-22 11:41:21 AM  
TL;DR... Lead poisoning?
 
2014-04-22 11:43:30 AM  

Marcintosh: decades ago, in France, an aggrieved Nuke worker put reactive material under the seat of his boss's auto.
The boss's commute was 45 minutes each way.
After some months said boss began to have symptoms of Radiation Poisoning.
Some detective work discovered the material and the person that placed it.

French courts were wondering how to prosecute this as it had made the boss ill, didn't kill him, he would recover, and enjoyed a shorter lifespan.  Instead of 90 (for example) the boss would only live to 70.
How to prosecute that?
I've never found out what they did.  Interesting though.


Well, I'm not familiar enough with French law to say what they could do there.

But in the US, they could charge the guy with aggravated assault or attempted murder now, or put the charges on hold until the boss actually dies, and then file murder charges if the cause of death were in fact provable to be the radiation poisoning.  The feds could also charge something related to misuse of radioactive materials, and that wouldn't affect the state charges.
 
2014-04-22 11:44:21 AM  

Zik-Zak: 22 years. That's a lotta lag.


694267200000ms - must have Comcast.
 
2014-04-22 11:46:24 AM  

swankywanky: SlothB77: [img4.wikia.nocookie.net image 600x1500]

should have gotten one of these suits.

first thing I thought of too

//geek fist bump


What? No love for the geek who posted it 15 minutes earlier? Man, high school NEVER ends!

Alfonse Gregory: Why didn't he just invent a mini-arc reactor to put in his chest to keep the bullet fragment from moving?

 
2014-04-22 11:49:26 AM  
A bit faster than the case in Harrisburg we saw earlier this morning, where the suspect had been living under an assumed identity.

Also, this story sucked. No reporting about what happened 22 years ago. Hell, if a 14 year old took a plea for aggravated assault 22 years ago, would you even be able to say who it was if he'd been convicted as a minor. Would you have to begin procedures in jouvenile court?
 
2014-04-22 11:51:26 AM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: DarkVader: BafflerMeal: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


Yes.  If death is a direct result of the shooting, yes.

No, absolutely not.

If he had not been convicted of anything from the initial act, they could charge him.  But if he's already been convicted (or acquitted) of a crime based on the initial act, they cannot bring new charges.  It is not a separate crime.  Had the guy died after he was charged with assault but before he was convicted, they could add a murder or manslaughter charge.  But they don't get a "second bite of the apple" once the verdict is in.

"Considering" new charges doesn't mean that the prosecutor is actually stupid enough to file them.  It likely just means that some cop made an uneducated comment to a reporter.

This is Hickville, PA we're talking about here, DV. Annoying little things like "double jeopardy" don't often enter into the thought processes of those bringing charges.


Well, that's also possible.  I actually had to explain the concept of why double jeopardy applied (in a somewhat more complex case) to an assistant DA in a nearby rural county.  Fortunately, he had nothing to do with the case, our "big city" DA was handling things appropriately.  So yeah, sometimes that legal education doesn't quite take.
 
2014-04-22 11:59:23 AM  

DarkVader: BafflerMeal: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


Yes.  If death is a direct result of the shooting, yes.

No, absolutely not.

If he had not been convicted of anything from the initial act, they could charge him.  But if he's already been convicted (or acquitted) of a crime based on the initial act, they cannot bring new charges.  It is not a separate crime.  Had the guy died after he was charged with assault but before he was convicted, they could add a murder or manslaughter charge.  But they don't get a "second bite of the apple" once the verdict is in.

"Considering" new charges doesn't mean that the prosecutor is actually stupid enough to file them.  It likely just means that some cop made an uneducated comment to a reporter.



You really need to brush up on your criminal procedure.  When you prosecute someone for a crime, jeopardy attaches for all LESSER-included offenses, but jeopardy does not run "up the ladder".  In other words, if you try someone for robbery, you can't also get them for larceny because robbery is larceny plus force so larceny is a lesser included offense.  Here the assailant was convicted of assault/battery, but assault is a lesser included offence of murder, NOT the other way around.  Since the victim had not yet died (a critical element of a murder charge) at the time of the first prosecution (the state would have been required to bring all charges it could have brought at the time) and the crime of murder contains elements not covered by the prior charges, it is likely that the state can now bring murder charges.
 
2014-04-22 12:02:34 PM  
R.I.P. Tupac Shakur - they finally got you for real.

/DNRTFA
 
2014-04-22 12:11:39 PM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: DarkVader: BafflerMeal: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


Yes.  If death is a direct result of the shooting, yes.

No, absolutely not.

If he had not been convicted of anything from the initial act, they could charge him.  But if he's already been convicted (or acquitted) of a crime based on the initial act, they cannot bring new charges.  It is not a separate crime.  Had the guy died after he was charged with assault but before he was convicted, they could add a murder or manslaughter charge.  But they don't get a "second bite of the apple" once the verdict is in.

"Considering" new charges doesn't mean that the prosecutor is actually stupid enough to file them.  It likely just means that some cop made an uneducated comment to a reporter.

This is Hickville, PA we're talking about here, DV. Annoying little things like "double jeopardy" don't often enter into the thought processes of those bringing charges.


Actually it's the first capital of the US.  Home to Harley Davidson, Caterpillar, York Peppermint Patties. two signers of the Declaration of Independence and part of the 96th most populous metro area in the US.  But heck what is a population of half a million.

/obviously lives here.
 
2014-04-22 12:14:57 PM  

Quinzy: Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: DarkVader: BafflerMeal: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


Yes.  If death is a direct result of the shooting, yes.

No, absolutely not.

If he had not been convicted of anything from the initial act, they could charge him.  But if he's already been convicted (or acquitted) of a crime based on the initial act, they cannot bring new charges.  It is not a separate crime.  Had the guy died after he was charged with assault but before he was convicted, they could add a murder or manslaughter charge.  But they don't get a "second bite of the apple" once the verdict is in.

"Considering" new charges doesn't mean that the prosecutor is actually stupid enough to file them.  It likely just means that some cop made an uneducated comment to a reporter.

This is Hickville, PA we're talking about here, DV. Annoying little things like "double jeopardy" don't often enter into the thought processes of those bringing charges.

Actually it's the first capital of the US.  Home to Harley Davidson, Caterpillar, York Peppermint Patties. two signers of the Declaration of Independence and part of the 96th most populous metro area in the US.  But heck what is a population of half a million.

/obviously lives here.


Yes, I do.
 
2014-04-22 12:23:02 PM  

cretinbob: Guys die from their WWII and Viet Nam wounds every day


I would expect it would take a strong person to survive a WWII wound AND a Viet Nam wound.
 
2014-04-22 12:24:34 PM  
My Great-Grandfather died in 1939 from shrapnel wounds he got in 1916.
 
2014-04-22 12:29:20 PM  

Quinzy: /obviously lives here.


You forgot Mallow cups, first oil well, first gas station, first radio station, oldest roller coaster, gravity hill, and Centralia, the town that has been on fire forever.
 
2014-04-22 12:31:02 PM  

durbnpoisn: cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?

Presumably, yes.  There is no statute of limitations on murder.


I don't think that would even apply, since he was just 'murdered.'
 
2014-04-22 12:43:21 PM  

DarkVader: Marcintosh: decades ago, in France, an aggrieved Nuke worker put reactive material under the seat of his boss's auto.
The boss's commute was 45 minutes each way.
After some months said boss began to have symptoms of Radiation Poisoning.
Some detective work discovered the material and the person that placed it.

French courts were wondering how to prosecute this as it had made the boss ill, didn't kill him, he would recover, and enjoyed a shorter lifespan.  Instead of 90 (for example) the boss would only live to 70.
How to prosecute that?
I've never found out what they did.  Interesting though.


Well, I'm not familiar enough with French law to say what they could do there.

But in the US, they could charge the guy with aggravated assault or attempted murder now, or put the charges on hold until the boss actually dies, and then file murder charges if the cause of death were in fact provable to be the radiation poisoning.  The feds could also charge something related to misuse of radioactive materials, and that wouldn't affect the state charges.


thanks, I was thinking assault charges but how to prove the premature end of life issue - just "soft-pedal that and work harder on the others.  interesting.
 
2014-04-22 12:52:51 PM  

Cataholic: Khellendros: Many states have  a "year and a day" rule, meaning that unless they died withing 366 days of the infliction of the wound, they can't be charged with murder, only the assault/maiming/bodily harm/etc of the initial attack.  Looks like it may not apply here, but worth noting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_and_a_day_rule

Came for the year and a day rule...leaving satisfied.  Now, if we can only get a fertile octogenarian I'll be in high clover.


Fark that fertile octogenarian because that leads directly to the Rule Against Perpetuity and ain't no one got time for that.

/meet my daughter, Shelly.... she has a case....
 
2014-04-22 01:40:32 PM  
A story I remember from Ripley's Believe it or Not tells of two men fighting a duel with pistols. The two men fired at each other, but only one of them scored a fatal hit. The other one's bullet missed and embedded itself in the base of a tree. Some 20 years later the survivor was clearing his land for farming, and dynamited the tree stump with the bullet in it. The bullet, propelled by the force of the explosion, struck the man in the head and killed him instantly, some 20 years after the duel.

media.jinni.com

Believe it ... or not.
 
2014-04-22 01:41:17 PM  

vudukungfu: Quinzy: /obviously lives here.

You forgot Mallow cups, first oil well, first gas station, first radio station, oldest roller coaster, gravity hill, and Centralia, the town that has been on fire forever.


You sound suspiciously local.
 
2014-04-22 01:56:18 PM  
Was it a former baseball pitcher who came back later to be a natural hitter?
 
2014-04-22 04:14:26 PM  
Mal: Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you.
 
2014-04-23 08:05:13 AM  

cgraves67: They are considering pressing charges. So if the shooter was already convicted of assualt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, can they charge him with homicide 22 years later for the same crime?


No statute of limitation on murder.
 
2014-04-23 03:06:19 PM  

Alfonse Gregory: swankywanky: SlothB77: [img4.wikia.nocookie.net image 600x1500]

should have gotten one of these suits.

first thing I thought of too

//geek fist bump

What? No love for the geek who posted it 15 minutes earlier? Man, high school NEVER ends!

Alfonse Gregory: Why didn't he just invent a mini-arc reactor to put in his chest to keep the bullet fragment from moving?


sorry Alfonse!  missed it!
 
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