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(CNN)   Preacher wishes people would stop dressing so badly for church, because while Jesus may love you, he hates that coat, and those shoes... jeez   (religion.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 206
    More: Silly, Sloppy Sabbath, Windsor Castle, National Catholic Register, Queen of England, dress codes  
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4151 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2014 at 9:51 AM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-22 01:48:48 PM

cptjeff: ciberido: cptjeff: bhcompy: Mr. Right: When I first entered the ranks of management, office workers were expected to wear suits, white shirts, and ties. One could remove one's jacket in the confines of his office but jackets were always worn at meetings or when meeting with customers or suppliers. Women often wore suits but with skirts. Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity. I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country. During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices. Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes. The employees didn't become dumber or lazier or less creative but the sense of urgency, the standards of professionalism, and the sense of decorum dropped dramatically.

Is this a troll account that I'm not aware of?


What would make you think that? Because somebody has the temerity to say something that doesn't support your pre-existing opinions about how great it is to dress like a slob?

Wow, you REALLY enjoying making up other people's motives, I see.  You know, if people disagreeing with you chaps your ass this much, Fark might not be the best place for you.

Oh, poor little baby. Did somebody on the internet hurt your feelings?


No, I'm just mildly curious why you are being so belligerent to so many different people.  By all means, if you are enjoying yourself, carry on.  I admit, some people do like being angry, so you may be in exactly the right place.
 
2014-04-22 01:49:38 PM

brimed03: Seriously, dressing better for the nudie bar than for church? Yes: unlike the nudie bar, the church will (or should) warmly welcome you *whatever* you wear. That doesn't mean you take advantage of that by wearing crap if you've got better. God doesn't care, but show some respect for where you are and the people you're with.



Apparently, there are some churches where you can wear actual crap, and urine too, running down your leg, and the well dressed rich will love on you for it. Go figure.
 
2014-04-22 01:51:09 PM
Oh bother, Mr Preacher, DO NOT go to a biker church. Not everyone wants to get up and throw on a suit and tie (or long dress) to hear someone speak for a few minutes, and constantly sit/stand for songs of praise. The clothing appropriate for a typical white-collar job is sufficient for going to church.
 
2014-04-22 01:52:15 PM

Felix_T_Cat: ciberido: You're probably referring to  Romans 14:1-4, and while I agree with you in principle, the problem is that pretty much EVERYTHING upsets somebody.  To use the specific example Paul used, do you really think that, because SOME Christians might be offended by eating meat or see non-vegetarianism as sinful, that every Christian in the world should practice vegetarianism "in consideration for their weakness"?  That seems rather extreme and impractical.

Also what about Romans 14:3 specifically, where Paul says "the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them"?  Is that not saying that God commands we NOT JUDGE the person who wears a baseball cap or shows off a little too much cleavage?

Of course.  I didn't say every situation.  You have to weigh the act against the effect.


Fair enough.
 
2014-04-22 01:52:51 PM

cptjeff: bhcompy: How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity

You didn't do that. You called the poster a troll. And in fact, he's got a pretty good argument. He also has some evidence- personal experience from several decades as a business consultant, responsible for gauging things like productivity, working in different business environments with different dress codes. That makes him credible as an expert on business dynamics (if what he's saying is true, and I have no reason to think he's lying), and allows him to make direct comparison. Expert opinion is citable as a source in just about any publication on the planet, and I've seen other experts in business and psychology make the same case. You responded with ad hominem and mockery, not substance.


upload.wikimedia.org

It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this
 
2014-04-22 01:55:37 PM

WeenerGord: Felix_T_Cat: Our church ministers to street people.  One of the traditional guys couldn't take the dirt and smells.  He would just about cry when the street folks would break the bread in line ahead of him.  Pastor said, "There was nothing clean and tidy about the crucifixion."  He was also 'germ phobic,' so we started cutting up some of the bread so that people wouldn't touch his portion.  He still left our church.

The remaining people in their Sunday best love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence.  There's a lot of care & compassion going on.

/Evangelical


Do your pews have shiat stains on them?

Funny how people can be convinced that if they just do one thing, they become holier than thou. In this case,  "love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence", if you want to be  one of the team. If you are one of us, you'll do it!!!


Well, they're chairs, not pews per se.  Really, there are 2 or 3 guys who are incontinent out of 50 of us. The rest of us have different problems.  They can't help it.  Not gonna a judge a guy based on something he can't control.  We care about them as individuals.  Everybody's story is their own.  One guy was abandoned as a child because of his TBI, another other was injured (TBI) in the military.  Some of the homeless come in with dirty clothes, so we give them clean clothes and they can clean up.  If a guy is a little drunk or high, he doesn't get turned away.  Bleeding or injured people get evaluated by a nurse.

We do what we can to give them dignity and friendship.  It's not an act, I really do like these guys.  We work with social work agencies to get them services.  We help the agencies locate people and attend case conferences with them.  This isn't coming from some sort of BS holier than thou or tolerance crap.  It's about relieving someone's suffering.  Also, we can reach people that the agencies can't.

I guess it's easy to suppose that there's some sort of 'Erma Gerhd it's a church so condescension .'  Or 'you can't really like people, you're just getting brownie points with people or God.'  One guy actually said, "You can't really like me, you're just a soft touch."  I dunno, when I was an atheist, I didn't hate groups or even churches.  I hated individuals for their actions.  But I did suspect people's motivations too.

We're just doing what a church is supposed to do.  Share Jesus, support people.  There's enough problems in the world.  As a group, our little church is good at a particular set of problems.  If you see a need, have at it.  It doesn't have to be what we're doing.
 
2014-04-22 01:56:25 PM

brimed03: DarkVader: There's a much better way of dealing with church than dressing up or not dressing up.

Just don't farking go.  Stay in bed, mow the lawn, get a beej, whatever you feel like.  Because your god isn't real, and there's no point wasting your time or money on badly written fiction.

Now, speaking of tiresome hypocrisy and people who need to just shut up. I'm looking at all you hipster atheists. And yes, that's what it is. Genuine atheists believe what they believe (or disbelieve as the case may be), and while they don't hide it, they don't feel the need to go dick-wagging in the faces of those who do believe in God.

*Hipster* atheists, OTOH, post condescending shiat like this because it's currently trendy. You've got an FSM decal on your car bumper, you stopped redditing when r/atheism got kicked off the defaults list (but you secretly reddit anyway), and-- such an irony-- you roll your eyes as publicly as you can at people who *don't believe what you believe.* And boy you can't wait for one of those atheist churches to open in your city.


I've been calling them "asshat atheists" but I rather like "hipster atheist."
 
2014-04-22 02:01:47 PM

Felix_T_Cat: One guy was abandoned as a child because of his TBI, another other was injured (TBI) in the military



Because of his what? What is TBI?
 
2014-04-22 02:02:02 PM

bhcompy: cptjeff: bhcompy: How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity

You didn't do that. You called the poster a troll. And in fact, he's got a pretty good argument. He also has some evidence- personal experience from several decades as a business consultant, responsible for gauging things like productivity, working in different business environments with different dress codes. That makes him credible as an expert on business dynamics (if what he's saying is true, and I have no reason to think he's lying), and allows him to make direct comparison. Expert opinion is citable as a source in just about any publication on the planet, and I've seen other experts in business and psychology make the same case. You responded with ad hominem and mockery, not substance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x364]

It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this


When I first graduated college and got my first real programming job as a consultant for AT&T, I was required to dress in a business suit everyday with a white shirt and shoes (with laces) and there was a facial hair requirement.  A few years ago I saw nearly a whole development group explode because they asked that we not wear flip flops and shorts with holes in them to work.  In business, you want to reflect what your customer expects.  Today, customers have a very different expectations for programmers.

Let's say, you are paying me between 120 and 150 an hour.  My going rate for consulting.  Today would people think they were getting a top notch programmer if they came in an saw a spit an polish office with me in a suit or would they feel like they were getting the best if they saw my desk with an assortment of empty Red Bull cans, a few Mountain Dew bottles, and a half a cup of coffee, the place as disheveled as I look.  I look like I could have been living at that desk for days and seem rather hurky jerky in my speech and movements.  Trust me.. they want to buy the stereotype.. hey they are the customer.
 
2014-04-22 02:02:39 PM

bhcompy: It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this


My original post said nothing about labor productivity.  I was referring to management productivity.  Those are the folks that had their dress code relaxed, not labor.  There is a difference between management and labor.  Anyone who has ever had a job more advanced than 2nd temporary assistant part-time French Fry salter knows this.
 
2014-04-22 02:07:35 PM

WeenerGord: Felix_T_Cat: One guy was abandoned as a child because of his TBI, another other was injured (TBI) in the military


Because of his what? What is TBI?


Traumatic brain injury.  There are a couple of group homes and an agency in the area that specialize in brain injury.
 
2014-04-22 02:09:14 PM

bhcompy: cptjeff: bhcompy: How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity

You didn't do that. You called the poster a troll. And in fact, he's got a pretty good argument. He also has some evidence- personal experience from several decades as a business consultant, responsible for gauging things like productivity, working in different business environments with different dress codes. That makes him credible as an expert on business dynamics (if what he's saying is true, and I have no reason to think he's lying), and allows him to make direct comparison. Expert opinion is citable as a source in just about any publication on the planet, and I've seen other experts in business and psychology make the same case. You responded with ad hominem and mockery, not substance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x364]

It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this


But that productivity has more to due with technology and automation doing more of the work not people working harder

s3.amazonaws.com

static.betazeta.com

patrickbaty.co.uk

www.uvisor.com
 
2014-04-22 02:09:42 PM

Oreamnos: Dressing nicely is pretty well understood as a sign of respect. God does not love you more or less depending on your clothing, and you are not more or less saved based on what you wear. But any good Christian should say, hey, I've been given forgiveness of my sins and the promise of everlasting life after death. Maybe I should do good things unto my fellow man and honor and serve God during my life on this earth.

You don't do this to get in good with God, you do this because you are acknowledging what God has already done for you.



Personally I'm of the school of thought that a Christian's prime directive is to convince non-Christians they should give Christianity a try.  Everything else, even praising God, giving thanks unto Him, etc. is subordinate to that.  I can praise God all the live-long day once I'm in Heaven.  But I won't be meeting many non-Christians up there, will I?  So I'd better focus on the non-Christians while I can --- while I'm on Earth.

To be honest, I don't give what I wear to church that much thought, but if I do think the matter over, the question in my mind is, "What will give the best possible impression to any non-Christians visiting the church today?" not "What will look the most pious?" or "What will get the approval of my fellow Christians?"

Frankly, if Christianity is true and Christians are going to heaven, then nothing I say or do is going to matter one iota with respect to other Christians, so why should I worry in the slightest what you think?  It's the non-Christians I should be trying to influence, and the message I would hope to send isn't "Look how pious and respectful and thankful I am!"

And if Christianity isn't true, then we're all just wasting our time in church, aren't we?  So we might as well be comfortable while doing it.
 
2014-04-22 02:13:34 PM

gunslinger_RG: bhcompy: cptjeff: bhcompy: How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity

You didn't do that. You called the poster a troll. And in fact, he's got a pretty good argument. He also has some evidence- personal experience from several decades as a business consultant, responsible for gauging things like productivity, working in different business environments with different dress codes. That makes him credible as an expert on business dynamics (if what he's saying is true, and I have no reason to think he's lying), and allows him to make direct comparison. Expert opinion is citable as a source in just about any publication on the planet, and I've seen other experts in business and psychology make the same case. You responded with ad hominem and mockery, not substance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x364]

It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this

When I first graduated college and got my first real programming job as a consultant for AT&T, I was required to dress in a business suit everyday with a white shirt and shoes (with laces) and there was a facial hair requirement.  A few years ago I saw nearly a whole development group explode because they asked that we not wear flip flops and shorts with holes in them to work.  In business, you want to reflect what your customer expects.  Today, customers have a very different expectations for programmers.

Let's say, you are paying me between 120 and 150 an hour.  My going rate for consulting.  Today would people think they were getting a top notch programmer if they came in an saw a spit an polish office with me in a suit or would they feel like they were getting the best if they saw my desk with an assortment of empty Red Bull cans, a few Mountain Dew bottle ...


Clients (huge companies) used to really appreciate my appearance when I showed up in a suit, but with long hair and hiking boots.  "Oh, you must really know what you're doing.  'Cause if you didn't, your bosses would have you cut your hair."
 
2014-04-22 02:20:18 PM

Mr. Right:  But in the "soft" jobs like management, HR, etc. and in meetings and collaborative projects, it was my experience that the more casually people dressed, the more casually they performed.   It was much easier to sidetrack discussions, harder to keep a group focused.  The only thing that wrecked a meeting more was somebody bringing donuts in half-way through the meeting.


Well that is a conveniently more difficult thing to metric efficiency, but I still question it.  My corporate experience has also been both having to wear suits and, now, where we all wear jeans and t-shirts to work unless clients are coming in.    I found that when we all wore suits to work it was more of an old boy network and we all thought we were in an episode of madmen - sexist jokes, more drinking during work hours, etc.  

Far more efficient now.   I think most observations people make are colored by their age and world view, everyone always looks down on how next generations change their dress-up transitions.

Probably the worst part (and only peripherally affected productivity) was that how someone dressed became a subject of discussion.  When all your suits are some shade of  navy blue or dark gray (a really wild suit was one with a chalk stripe instead of a pin stripe) all your shirts are white, all your socks are black, your power ties go with about any dark color of suit you own, and your greatest deliberation is which pair of black wing-tips to wear today, getting dressed can be accomplished in the dark.

Thank god.  I do enjoy dressing well when going out, and the whole 80s suit mentality was a farking atrocity this world is better off without.
 
2014-04-22 02:22:23 PM

Mr. Right: bhcompy: It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this

My original post said nothing about labor productivity.  I was referring to management productivity.  Those are the folks that had their dress code relaxed, not labor.  There is a difference between management and labor.  Anyone who has ever had a job more advanced than 2nd temporary assistant part-time French Fry salter knows this.


I would venture to guess that management productivity issues can be linked to title inflation and inadequate (or non-existent) management training programs, though they are probably closely linked to the dress code issue. Or perhaps that is just my own experience. I have so many "managers" running around my organization that have no direct reports I just want to rip my hair out, yet many of my colleagues defend this by saying it increases workplace satisfaction by basically handing out meaningless titles. Most of these managers couldn't lead a team out of a wet paper bag if they had one to lead, and the people who supervise them often never received any management training themselves.
 
2014-04-22 02:31:53 PM

lilplatinum: Thank god. I do enjoy dressing well when going out, and the whole 80s suit mentality was a farking atrocity this world is better off without.


Getting dressed is certainly less expensive without the suits but for "portly" men, suits are way more flattering than any polo shirt is ever going to be.
 
2014-04-22 02:35:40 PM

brimed03: And then everybody loses their minds when the Catholics "refuse to get with the 21st century" over issues with actual faith implications like reproductive technology.


I realize you aren't speaking of me specifically, and I hesitate to say anything to you that is defensive or argumentative, since you've been very polite and rational, two characteristics rather uncommon in Fark threads.  Yet I'd like to address that point all the same, and I'm sorry to say it will be argumentative.  Bear in mind I am a Christian but not a Catholic; if that makes my argument any more or less valid in your mind, so be it.

None of these issues are new.  Birth control predates Jesus.  Abortion predates Jesus.  Gay marriage predates the Bible (even if it didn't, would you argue the Bible forbids something that didn't exist yet?)  Female priests predate Christianity, and the Catholic Church in particular ordained female bishops and deaconesses for hundreds of years before that changed in the 12th century.   As  Ecclesiastes 1:9 says, there is nothing new under the sun.  So, I'm sorry, but "the Church changes glacially on many things" isn't really an excuse.  You have had since before you even existed to "get with the times" --- and the farking BC times at that.

If you truly believe that the Catholic Church's positions reflect the Will of God, then by all means, stick to your guns and more power to you.  We can agree to disagree and go our separate ways.  But please do not try to make excuses about history and tradition and slow change.  None of that applies to topics that predate the birth of Christ.
 
2014-04-22 02:38:46 PM
Because the Christ only chatted up the folks in ties.
 
2014-04-22 02:39:49 PM

bhcompy: It's pretty much unquestionable and common knowledge that labor productivity has grown almost every year since it started being tracked, which is why I asked if it was a troll. Anyone who has taken economics in high school or college knows this


And that's largely due to computers and automation. You're using numbers from across all sectors and industries that are influenced by three zillion factors. That is to say, completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Anybody who's done a middle school science project knows that you need to isolate your variables when testing. You can do that observational rather than experimentally, and there are multiple ways. You can observe the same population sequentially under different circumstances, or you can observe similar populations simultaneously. Sounds like Mr. Right has experience doing professional analysis in both circumstances.


naughtyrev: I would venture to guess that management productivity issues can be linked to title inflation and inadequate (or non-existent) management training programs,


That's not a bad point. There's a lot less training in offices than there used to be, probably a chicken and egg thing with the fact that people change jobs much more often. Promotions are rarer, so if you want to move up, you change jobs and move up that way. Companies have less of an incentive to train if they expect you to just move on in 5 years.
 
2014-04-22 02:41:59 PM

ReverendJynxed: Because the Christ only chatted up the folks in ties.


Well.. he did biatch at them, and flip their money changing tables...
 
2014-04-22 02:45:42 PM

lilplatinum: The idiots who decry the fact that people no longer dress up to get on planes, or that employees who don't see customers should somehow have to wear suits like I do are just old people angry that the world has changed, just like I am sure their grandparents decried thing x they did that was 'disrespectful' to their lemming like servitude towards tradition.


The point about air travel interests me particularly.  What has changed between now and then is not a loss of gratitude. It's the natural response to how air travel itself has changed.  When it was new and uncommon and special, it was treated as something special.  People dressed up for it, and in turn they got fairly swanky treatment.  Now that air travel is common and, well, "unspecial", it is no longer treated as something special.  The experience is made much less pleasant for the traveler (this was true even before the attacks of September 11, 2001), and people dress now accordingly.

And frankly, that's for the best.  When I fly, it's often transoceanic and hours if not days will pass between point A and point B.  Yes, wearing a dress and heels, or a suit with a tie, would be more classy.  But if I am going to sit in a narrow little chair bolted to the floor without being allowed to get up for hours at a time I think I'll take comfort over class.
 
2014-04-22 02:49:34 PM
gunslinger_RG [TotalFark]


Everything wrong with American Christian Right is actually nut shelled in this article if you study it. American Christian right fundie's today, are not arguing over actual tenets of Christian dogma or parts of high theology but they are up in arms over their TRADITIONS as they have come to know them.

Churches adopt casual dress. Article even describes preachers in jeans and casual shirts

Farktard response "derp fundy up in arms over casual clothing derp derp derp.

// illiterate fool.
 
2014-04-22 02:51:33 PM

Danger Mouse: We've lost something in our society in the past few years.


Yes, but we've also gained things.  There's always a trade-off.  I'm reminded of the monologue from Inherit the Wind: "Progress has never been a bargain.  You have to pay for it."
 
2014-04-22 02:52:07 PM

Mr. Right: lilplatinum: Thank god. I do enjoy dressing well when going out, and the whole 80s suit mentality was a farking atrocity this world is better off without.

Getting dressed is certainly less expensive without the suits but for "portly" men, suits are way more flattering than any polo shirt is ever going to be.


I wasn't criticizing suits in general, I own about 10 and a tux and wear them fairly regularly (although I think the fact that others do not is neither disrespectful nor a sign of their degenerating managerial skills).  I was referring to "all your suits are some shade of  navy blue or dark gray (a really wild suit was one with a chalk stripe instead of a pin stripe) all your shirts are white, all your socks are black, your power ties go with about any dark color of suit you own, and your greatest deliberation is which pair of black wing-tips to wear today " - that whole 80s power suit abomination thing needs to die and be wiped from human nature.
 
2014-04-22 02:52:50 PM
ts2.mm.bing.net
I like to dress nice for church.
 
2014-04-22 02:53:29 PM

ciberido: And frankly, that's for the best.  When I fly, it's often transoceanic and hours if not days will pass between point A and point B.  Yes, wearing a dress and heels, or a suit with a tie, would be more classy.  But if I am going to sit in a narrow little chair bolted to the floor without being allowed to get up for hours at a time I think I'll take comfort over class.


I love the looks I get when i fly business class looking like shiat and reeking like the requisite amount of bourbon and weed I need to consume to deal with international air travel.
 
2014-04-22 02:57:30 PM

ciberido: No, I'm just mildly curious why you are being so belligerent to so many different people.  By all means, if you are enjoying yourself, carry on.  I admit, some people do like being angry, so you may be in exactly the right place.


I like vigorous debate, and I'm not much of one to let idiocy slide by unchallenged. I respond forcefully to bullshiat and talk nicely to those who know what they're talking about. And despite often stating things forcefully, I don't get emotionally invested- your opinion is just not anywhere close to important enough for me to care. It's often easier to type what I really want to say than it is to type a nice, diplomatic reply that makes people feel like their post wasn't completely wrong when it was. So if I offend you, tough titties. You're an adult, you can handle it. There's no right to not be offended.
 
2014-04-22 03:08:23 PM
Felix_T_Cat:
Clients (huge companies) used to really appreciate my appearance when I showed up in a suit, but with long hair and hiking boots. "Oh, you must really know what you're doing. 'Cause if you didn't, your bosses would have you cut your hair."

Eh. yes and no. There's a point  were it's goes to far.  Usually it's with personal hygene and ability to communicate. You could be a farking genius but the boss isn't going to put you  in front of a 500 milllion dollar account if your smell like shiat and talk with your mouth full. We'll let the ecentric guy who wears the tardis t shirt and  and the  socks don't match and looks like he attempted to comb his hair. The customers get's that. They think oooh, he must be an eccentric genius, but  the fat POS who farts in public, smells like a musty basement  and says he doens't care what he looks like? yea, we keep him locked in the back room.
 
2014-04-22 03:21:57 PM

cptjeff: I like vigorous debate, and I'm not much of one to let idiocy slide by unchallenged. I respond forcefully to bullshiat and talk nicely to those who know what they're talking about. And despite often stating things forcefully, I don't get emotionally invested- your opinion is just not anywhere close to important enough for me to care.


You can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.  I think it's pretty clear to the rest of us how emotionally invested you are.  Once again, you're free to act as you like and say what you like, but it might be in your best interest to ask yourself why you're so angry with so many different people.
 
2014-04-22 03:23:48 PM

tlars699: ReverendJynxed: Because the Christ only chatted up the folks in ties.

Well.. he did biatch at them, and flip their money changing tables...


Seems he kicked the suits out of the temple.
 
2014-04-22 03:25:17 PM
lilplatinum:
I love the looks I get when i fly business class looking like shiat and reeking like the requisite amount of bourbon and weed I need to consume to deal with international air travel.

Looks that say "hey, you look like everybody else in business class"?
 
2014-04-22 03:25:59 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-22 03:28:16 PM

WanPhat: lilplatinum:
I love the looks I get when i fly business class looking like shiat and reeking like the requisite amount of bourbon and weed I need to consume to deal with international air travel.

Looks that say "hey, you look like everybody else in business class"?


There are still substantially more greyhairs who wear sportcoats/suits in business class than in cattle class, and they most certainly have been known to give denigrading looks to those they think don't belong there.

Although that pales in comparison to the farking woman who brought her 4 children onto business class from Shanghai to NYC and then promptly fell asleep as they decided to bring in the chaos.
 
2014-04-22 03:31:56 PM
We moved a couple times in the past couple years and cyber-shopped churches.  Every church, and I mean every church, advertises that they have coffee and casual dress.  The funny thing is that they all say they are "different", which is like every Starbucks saying they are different.

If you haven't been to church in awhile, this is EXACTLY how most churches are these days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giM04ESUiGw
 
2014-04-22 03:40:32 PM

ciberido: cptjeff: I like vigorous debate, and I'm not much of one to let idiocy slide by unchallenged. I respond forcefully to bullshiat and talk nicely to those who know what they're talking about. And despite often stating things forcefully, I don't get emotionally invested- your opinion is just not anywhere close to important enough for me to care.

You can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.  I think it's pretty clear to the rest of us how emotionally invested you are.  Once again, you're free to act as you like and say what you like, but it might be in your best interest to ask yourself why you're so angry with so many different people.


My, you're full of yourself. It's interesting to learn how somebody thousands of miles away who I've never met can know my emotional state so well.

You said something moronic in the other thread. I called you out. Get over it.
 
2014-04-22 03:50:45 PM

Danger Mouse: Felix_T_Cat:
Clients (huge companies) used to really appreciate my appearance when I showed up in a suit, but with long hair and hiking boots. "Oh, you must really know what you're doing. 'Cause if you didn't, your bosses would have you cut your hair."

Eh. yes and no. There's a point  were it's goes to far.  Usually it's with personal hygene and ability to communicate. You could be a farking genius but the boss isn't going to put you  in front of a 500 milllion dollar account if your smell like shiat and talk with your mouth full. We'll let the ecentric guy who wears the tardis t shirt and  and the  socks don't match and looks like he attempted to comb his hair. The customers get's that. They think oooh, he must be an eccentric genius, but  the fat POS who farts in public, smells like a musty basement  and says he doens't care what he looks like? yea, we keep him locked in the back room.


Yep,  one company sent a guy out to do hardware repair.  He ate the person's lunch while he worked and fixed the grammar in a memo they were working on.

I was sent to another site where the client tech was a half foot taller and had about 50 lbs on me.  We both had beards and long hair.  His coworkers kept walking up to us and giggling, "I shall call him 'mini me'"

Another place had a programmer that was so abrasive, he wasn't allowed to talk to customers on the phone when he worked on their projects.  They would have a person from another department field the calls and answer the emails.

The client IT never met me before hand, so as we walked to the machines, I would quick tell a few stories of hilariously bad networks I had encountered and the bizarre tricks I used to get the work done.  Usually, the tech would then introduce me to the staff, "This is Felix, he knows what hes's doing."

I used to work on modem problems and the client would never believe when I told them the issue was their premises wiring.  I noticed that when I carried tools, they would believe me.  One day, I walked in with my tool bag, a box of cable and my lineman's test set.  I set them down without looking at anything, told them what the problem was.  They believed me and I hadn't even checked anything.  I had been there 5 months earlier without tools, ran tests and they didn't believe me.
 
2014-04-22 03:52:34 PM
lilplatinum:
There are still substantially more greyhairs who wear sportcoats/suits in business class than in cattle class, and they most certainly have been known to give denigrading looks to those they think don't belong there.

H
aven't seen that.  Seems like Asian guys wear suits, but American guys are like me: sweaty fat guys in untucked shirts.  But I mostly fly to Asia and tropical areas and suits don't suit us large folks in hot areas.  Haven't ever noticed dirty looks.  I'm 6-6, 300 lbs and I'm not sure the Asian guys regard me as being of the same species.  Plus we all understand that we're likely there because of random upgrade or miles because we're some sap who has to fly that route a lot.  Actually, I can't say that I've ever noticed looks of any kind.  I'm just trying to get through it, not noticing what others think of me.
 .
 
2014-04-22 03:53:10 PM

ciberido: cptjeff: I like vigorous debate, and I'm not much of one to let idiocy slide by unchallenged. I respond forcefully to bullshiat and talk nicely to those who know what they're talking about. And despite often stating things forcefully, I don't get emotionally invested- your opinion is just not anywhere close to important enough for me to care.

You can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.  I think it's pretty clear to the rest of us how emotionally invested you are.  Once again, you're free to act as you like and say what you like, but it might be in your best interest to ask yourself why you're so angry with so many different people.



I have cptjeff farkied as captain stinky, because in one clothes thread, he bragged that he had wool suits, which he repeatedly described as his "nice shiat" which he imagined were "naturally antimicrobial" so he had NEVER WASHED them. Or dry cleaned them. Ever. Just imagine the BO.

So maybe the reason he is so angry is because he stinks to high heaven. Or maybe he is in one of those lines of work that require you to be a jerk, like debt collector.
 
2014-04-22 03:55:01 PM

WanPhat: lilplatinum:
 but American guys...


btw, Australians make us look formal.  And I saw a Russian girl get off a flight in Dubai wearing a bikini.
 .
 
2014-04-22 03:58:53 PM

WanPhat: Haven't seen that.  Seems like Asian guys wear suits, but American guys are like me: sweaty fat guys in untucked shirts.  But I mostly fly to Asia and tropical areas and suits don't suit us large folks in hot areas.  Haven't ever noticed dirty looks.  I'm 6-6, 300 lbs and I'm not sure the Asian guys regard me as being of the same species.  Plus we all understand that we're likely there because of random upgrade or miles because we're some sap who has to fly that route a lot.  Actually, I can't say that I've ever noticed looks of any kind.  I'm just trying to get through it, not noticing what others think of me.


Obviously not paying attention to others, as I'm sure a 6-6 300 lb guy gets dirty looks by literally everyone he sits next to in an airplane ;)
 
2014-04-22 03:59:44 PM
This is easy. Just attend a Baptist church and show up naked. Problem solved. Ask me how I know.
 
2014-04-22 04:24:49 PM

WeenerGord: ciberido: cptjeff: I like vigorous debate, and I'm not much of one to let idiocy slide by unchallenged. I respond forcefully to bullshiat and talk nicely to those who know what they're talking about. And despite often stating things forcefully, I don't get emotionally invested- your opinion is just not anywhere close to important enough for me to care.

You can keep saying that if it makes you feel better.  I think it's pretty clear to the rest of us how emotionally invested you are.  Once again, you're free to act as you like and say what you like, but it might be in your best interest to ask yourself why you're so angry with so many different people.


I have cptjeff farkied as captain stinky, because in one clothes thread, he bragged that he had wool suits, which he repeatedly described as his "nice shiat" which he imagined were "naturally antimicrobial" so he had NEVER WASHED them. Or dry cleaned them. Ever. Just imagine the BO.


And I have you farkied as "Not too bright". BTW, Lanolin, an oil found naturally in wool, is indeed antimicrobial. Which is part of the reason it's so popular for use in cosmetics. Frequent cleaning is entirely unnecessary for wool clothing, especially when you're wearing layers between the wool and the sweaty parts of your body that do get washed. And if you give it adequate time to air out between wearings, you can go a very long time without cleaning a suit. Which is part of the attraction, but if you've never worn anything but cotton and polyester that have to be cleaned often, I can see how it might seem strange to you. But you should probably stop being so proud of your ignorance.
 
2014-04-22 04:47:29 PM
cptjeff: And if you give it adequate time to air out between wearings, you can go a very long time without cleaning a suit.


You said something moronic in the other thread. I called you out. Get over it, Stinky
 
Oak
2014-04-22 04:52:41 PM
"...Of course people accuse us sometimes of not practicing what we preach, but you must remember that, if you're trying to propagate a creed of poverty, gentleness and tolerance, you need a very rich, powerful, authoritarian organization to do it...."
 
2014-04-22 04:56:39 PM

lilplatinum: I wasn't criticizing suits in general, I own about 10 and a tux and wear them fairly regularly (although I think the fact that others do not is neither disrespectful nor a sign of their degenerating managerial skills). I was referring to "all your suits are some shade of navy blue or dark gray (a really wild suit was one with a chalk stripe instead of a pin stripe) all your shirts are white, all your socks are black, your power ties go with about any dark color of suit you own, and your greatest deliberation is which pair of black wing-tips to wear today " - that whole 80s power suit abomination thing needs to die and be wiped from human nature.


The power suit is not a power suit if everybody wears it.  And "back in the day" everyone did wear them.  It was the uniform.  Come to think of it, after the 70s and the leisure suit, power suits were a decided improvement.

csb:  After the relaxation of dress codes, most of my clients had very few suits or ties in evidence anywhere in the office.  And so I usually followed the standards of whichever client I was at.  Then one day I had to drop off some documents to the CFO of one of my clients on the way to another.  My ultimate destination usually wore suits and so I had one on.  When I dropped off the documents, I noticed that the CFO (who had been a royal PITA on this project) was as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.  I thought maybe he had heard from a divorce lawyer or something so I just blew it off.  On my next visit, the Controller told me that the CFO was, for some reason, completely intimidated  by anyone wearing a suit and that he was very nervous when I stopped by wearing one.  So guess what I wore every time I had to meet with the little SOB.  He couldn't have been more obsequious.  It got to be a joke with the receptionist.  "Oh, hi, Mr. Right.  I see you're wearing a suit.  I'll tell CFO you're here."
 end csb.
 
2014-04-22 04:57:36 PM

cptjeff: And if you give it adequate time to air out between wearings, you can go a very long time without cleaning a suit


You should certainly not go "a very long time" without pressing your pants, however.   And if you are already doing that you might as well get them cleaned on occasion.
 
2014-04-22 05:00:53 PM

WeenerGord: cptjeff: And if you give it adequate time to air out between wearings, you can go a very long time without cleaning a suit.


You said something moronic in the other thread. I called you out. Get over it, Stinky


Ooh, look at how clever you are! The trouble for you is that I happen to actually be right. You know, with facts and stuff. Here's the for dummies citation.

Maybe I'm old fashioned for thinking that facts matter, but so it goes.
 
2014-04-22 06:35:38 PM
i.imgur.com

Tim Tebow & Jesus Christ, high-fiving while standing on the noses of Orcas, frown upon these shenanigans...
 
2014-04-22 08:09:38 PM

cptjeff: Ooh, look at how clever you are!



Tsk tsk. You sound emotionally invested.

/And butthurt.
//And stinky.

You are right about one thing though. I am clever. :D
 
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