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(CNN)   Preacher wishes people would stop dressing so badly for church, because while Jesus may love you, he hates that coat, and those shoes... jeez   (religion.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 206
    More: Silly, Sloppy Sabbath, Windsor Castle, National Catholic Register, Queen of England, dress codes  
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4167 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2014 at 9:51 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-22 11:51:23 AM  
The small, evangelical town I come from in rural, central Pennsylvania traditionally had the ladies putting their hair up in curlers on a Saturday night, ensuring both that they will look good for Jesus on Sunday and that they definitely are NOT having sex on a Saturday night with anyone, not even their husbands. There are some that insist on this yarmulke like doily on top of the head, too. Have to wear their "Sunday best" to church, too.
My grandmother used to walk us to church (one mile, uphill) for an hour of Sunday school in the basement, then an hour of regular service upstairs. Then we had to hike another mile, still uphill, to the other grandmother's church, in jacket, suit and tie, on a hot summer's day, to repeat the basement Sunday school, and hour of regular service. Because by god, each of the grandmothers went to different churches and that meant we had to attend BOTH.
After this, we were maybe allowed a half a pop-cycle, but hot hose water was a treat at that point. All this was done after chores and before lunch. By the time it was as hot as could be outside, then, and only then, were we sent outside to play. Off to the chicken coop for to find some shade and maybe a comic book. Jeepers. We were so lucky not to have computers. We had to play with bugs, and sticks, and we had to breathe fresh air and exercise and be in the sunshine. Kids these days are like locked in prison. No fresh air. No sunshine. Bah.
Get off my lawn.
 
2014-04-22 11:56:09 AM  

destrip: ritzy country clubs.


One of the reasons I declined to marry in to wealth a few times.
Really. I live in the country.
That is all the "country club" I need.
 
2014-04-22 12:00:57 PM  

phalamir: ciberido: NewWorldDan: If my wife's church is typical, they should be happy that anyone under the age of 50 is coming to church.

If I may expound a bit on my last post, there's a big divide between the over-50 crowd and the under-40 crowd, with folks in their 40s being largely in transition between those two groups.  The over-50s want things to be very traditional and the under-40s want what's often called "contemporary services," with one of the differences between the two being that the traditional crowd still wears their Sunday best and the contemporaries don't care if you wear jeans and a t-shirt.  There are other differences.

And more and more they go do different churches altogether.  Churches are choosing (and very deliberately and consciously) whether to cater to the young folks or the old fogies, and churchgoers are, in turn, voting with their feet.

Your wife could cross the street and find a church with few people OVER 50.

Traditional Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with jeremiads about how 1830s America was the Golden Age of Christianity and if the darkies, women, and poor would just accept that rape and lynching are God's gifts life would be better.

Contemporary Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with horribly vapid songs performed by people so musically incompetent passers-by would charge them for busking.

I always thought you couldn't get more useless than a traditional service - until I attended a contemporary one and realized there were entire depths of vacuousness that had not been plumbed.  Pretty much gave up on church after that, when I realized that in 25 years, I had heard a grand total of 3 sermons that weren't complete dreck.


i'm not catholic, but I pretty much only go to catholic services.

there's millions of catholic churches around, they're mind-numbingly beautiful, and the sermons are often thought out, eloquent, and focus on being a good person/helping those in need, which can be appreciated by secular ears.

most people dress well.  especially for holidays.  however, there are people dressed down, or in work clothes, and absolutely no one is batting an eye.  however, if you were wearing slutty mcslut clothes, you might garner some negative attention.  but, by no means would you be asked to leave
 
2014-04-22 12:03:05 PM  
""If you had the opportunity to meet the Queen of England, you wouldn't show up in at Windsor Castle wearing jeans and a T-shirt," she says. "

The Queen of England doesn't love you unconditionally. She is also very rich and judgey.

"38As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces,  39and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets.40They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely." "

To be fair, Jesus seems to be more of mocking judges and lawyers than those who dress nicely for Church here.

I prefer the passage in Matthew 6, which talks about:

6"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,  4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face,  18so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

If you're dressed in a suit on a Sunday morning, everyone knows you're going to church. It is an announcement, like blowing a trumpet, of your own righteousness. No one should be able to tell that you're going to church, that you are praying, that you are fasting.

And the final nail in the coffin:

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?  27Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.  30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you-you of little faith?  31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.  33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.  34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
 
2014-04-22 12:09:48 PM  

phalamir: Traditional Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with jeremiads about how 1830s America was the Golden Age of Christianity and if the darkies, women, and poor would just accept that rape and lynching are God's gifts life would be better.

Contemporary Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with horribly vapid songs performed by people so musically incompetent passers-by would charge them for busking.

I always thought you couldn't get more useless than a traditional service - until I attended a contemporary one and realized there were entire depths of vacuousness that had not been plumbed.  Pretty much gave up on church after that, when I realized that in 25 years, I had heard a grand total of 3 sermons that weren't complete dreck.


Well, at least it didn't turn you cynical.
 
2014-04-22 12:12:34 PM  

Felix_T_Cat: One of my Pastors worked in a previous church that split over something as stupid as whether men could wear baseball caps during the service.  That said, the women here took one of the young girls aside and said, "Hey, you are not just your cleavage."

The scriptural precedent could be that if you're doing something that doesn't matter, but upsets other people, you should stop in consideration for their weakness.

Our church ministers to street people.  One of the traditional guys couldn't take the dirt and smells.  He would just about cry when the street folks would break the bread in line ahead of him.  Pastor said, "There was nothing clean and tidy about the crucifixion."  He was also 'germ phobic,' so we started cutting up some of the bread so that people wouldn't touch his portion.  He still left our church.

The remaining people in their Sunday best love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence.  There's a lot of care & compassion going on.

/Evangelical


Seems like it wouldn't cost much to put in a shower and let the bums us it instead of being happy about having pee and poo rubbed all over you.

/yourenothelping.jpg
 
2014-04-22 12:14:41 PM  

JoieD'Zen: hasty ambush: People don't know how to dress for anything anymore be it work church , court a or just being seen in public-have some self dignity people. You should see the way some folks show up for job interviews. I kid you not, one woman came in to fill out an application at our HR in jogging shorts and heels.

I don't go to church on any regular basis , just for things like wedding or when the SO drags me to one of her things but people dress like slobs. Nobody says buy and wear expensive clothes but at least make sure they are clean and no flip flops,shorts or (as much as Like seeing good looking chicks in them ) short skirts and stripper heels. Heck even as kids we, weren't rich (6 kids in my family) but we had one set of clothes and shoes set aside for things like church, weddings, school events etc,. They were not fancy and they were often hand me downs but we looked presentable and showed some respect for the occasion.

How often to we hear about how easy it is to spot the Americans at Disney land or elsewhere by the way they dress?

One of my peeves as well.
Dress appropriately for crissakes, in clothes that FIT!
If you're a  middle aged woman with stretch marks and unsightly bulges do not attempt to dress like your teenage daughter, please.


While I'd rather you show up to church in ratty jeans and a t-shirt than not at all, but for the love of Christ dress like you give a damn. I'm not talking suit and tie, but how about nice fitting jeans and t-shirt. It takes just as much time to put on a pair of khaki's and a polo shirt as it does for a pair of sweatpants and your Phillies 2009 National League Champions T-shirt. Dress like you got some sense.

/Get off my lawn.
 
2014-04-22 12:18:35 PM  
I don't think Jesus has any ground to comment on other people's dress. This is a dude that runs around in a bed sheet.
 
2014-04-22 12:18:42 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: scottydoesntknow: I went to church with the family on Easter because my mom wanted me to go since it had been a couple years. I was shocked, shocked I say, by the number of hot girls wearing low cut dresses/skirts. The thigh is not the limit in the house of the lord.

The Lord gotta get some scratch, too.


Jesus was shacked up with a whore and turned water into wine.  You damned right he would approve
 
2014-04-22 12:19:41 PM  

rev. dave: I am part of a small congregation, we like it small and on Easter everyone wore nice clothes, but very few suits.


Dave, have you ever heard of non-evangelicals? I have about a dozen or so that worship above my house every 4 weeks - very elderly congregation . Look them up. I've never heard of "non-evangelical" before meeting this bunch.
 
2014-04-22 12:20:24 PM  

mjohnson71: NewWorldDan: If my wife's church is typical, they should be happy that anyone under the age of 50 is coming to church.

We split our time between our local parish up the block and our old family parish in the city. At the old city church I'd say 80% of the churchgoers are over 50. When we take our 1 and 3 year old we either get the complete stink eye of hate or smiles and approving nods. Whenever the kids are a bit noisy the priest makes sure to mention that a church filled with the cries of youth is a growing church.

/Wish it had a crying room


Always hated that. When I was a kid I was capable of sitting in the pew and paying attention. I'm talking kids and not babies of course, but these days they seem to let kids do whatever they want instead of just babies.

That and the whole "selfie" thing is getting out of control. At Easter mass a couple and their two girls were taking pictures in front of the altar right before mass. Was like wtf...

Family in front of me had 3 kids, had them wearing little wicker fedoras. I know not that long ago women had to keep their heads covered at mass, but since then we hit the "it is disrespectful to wear a hat in church" thing. Anyway, the kids were talking and climbing all over in the pews. When I was that age I would have had my mouth covered if I tried talking and smacked with a hymnal for using the pew as a playground.
 
2014-04-22 12:21:28 PM  

cptjeff: bhcompy: Mr. Right: When I first entered the ranks of management, office workers were expected to wear suits, white shirts, and ties. One could remove one's jacket in the confines of his office but jackets were always worn at meetings or when meeting with customers or suppliers. Women often wore suits but with skirts. Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity. I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country. During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices. Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes. The employees didn't become dumber or lazier or less creative but the sense of urgency, the standards of professionalism, and the sense of decorum dropped dramatically.

Is this a troll account that I'm not aware of?

What would make you think that? Because somebody has the temerity to say something that doesn't support your pre-existing opinions about how great it is to dress like a slob?


Since when is not wearing a suit an opinion on "how great it is to dress like a slob"?  How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity in anyway support the bullshiat flowing out of your mouth?
 
2014-04-22 12:25:21 PM  

Felix_T_Cat: One of my Pastors worked in a previous church that split over something as stupid as whether men could wear baseball caps during the service.  That said, the women here took one of the young girls aside and said, "Hey, you are not just your cleavage."

The scriptural precedent could be that if you're doing something that doesn't matter, but upsets other people, you should stop in consideration for their weakness.

Our church ministers to street people.  One of the traditional guys couldn't take the dirt and smells.  He would just about cry when the street folks would break the bread in line ahead of him.  Pastor said, "There was nothing clean and tidy about the crucifixion."  He was also 'germ phobic,' so we started cutting up some of the bread so that people wouldn't touch his portion.  He still left our church.

The remaining people in their Sunday best love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence.  There's a lot of care & compassion going on.

/Evangelical


And the people with urine and fecal incontinence do their very best to love the rest of the people in their Sunday best, despite those folk's presumption of superiority and attitudes of "tolerance."

But Lord knows it's hard.
 
2014-04-22 12:27:35 PM  

ciberido: Felix_T_Cat: One of my Pastors worked in a previous church that split over something as stupid as whether men could wear baseball caps during the service.  That said, the women here took one of the young girls aside and said, "Hey, you are not just your cleavage."

The scriptural precedent could be that if you're doing something that doesn't matter, but upsets other people, you should stop in consideration for their weakness.


You're probably referring to  Romans 14:1-4, and while I agree with you in principle, the problem is that pretty much EVERYTHING upsets somebody.  To use the specific example Paul used, do you really think that, because SOME Christians might be offended by eating meat or see non-vegetarianism as sinful, that every Christian in the world should practice vegetarianism "in consideration for their weakness"?  That seems rather extreme and impractical.

Also what about Romans 14:3 specifically, where Paul says "the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them"?  Is that not saying that God commands we NOT JUDGE the person who wears a baseball cap or shows off a little too much cleavage?


Of course.  I didn't say every situation.  You have to weigh the act against the effect.  You don't offer ham to Muslims or go to a Messianic Jewish temple and start complaining about Palestine.  I wear my cap in churches we're it doesn't offend.  I take it off where it does.  The Indian people at church don't eat meat, but they don't get offended when others do.

The guy who I mentioned was always on me to not wear cargo shorts.  After a while, since it upset him so much, I stopped.  Then he started with, "You should cut your long hair."

Deny self where it would do some good.  Besides, you have to look at the goal.  This guy needs Jesus, am I gonna crap on him over something stupid?  Am I going to try an please someone who won't be happy no matter what?  If he's got a biblical point, I have to look at it.  "be a Jew to the Jews, a gentile to the gentiles."
 
2014-04-22 12:27:51 PM  

rev. dave: I read that article on Sunday morning as I was getting ready to go to church.
What the author is really saying is that he does not like how our culture has changed.  Because it is our culture, not the church members which is doing this.   I'm sure that somewhere in the past someone else was upset that people stopped wearing hand sewn clothes and instead wore finely woven fabric sewed with a machine.
Your respect is not always shown by what you wear, but how you act.  There are very poor people who attend our church and are obviously wearing donated clothing, we don't change how we treat them.  For everyone it is nice to see them, glad they came.  No judging, no criticism, etc.  Of course we are not the kind of church who has a rock band or some fool prancing about on a stage screaming at everyone.  That is what I find more offensive, the person running the service needs to act with a bit more dignity.


Decently refreshing in a sea of trolls.

The traditional idea is don't criticize someone if their best dress isn't very good, but everyone still should dress the best they can.

Today, both in our culture and our society, we conform to the lowest common denominator instead of the other way around.
 
2014-04-22 12:31:05 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Heh. Reminds me of when I was a kid in Puerto Rico and Sunday morning church was basically a fashion show. Puerto Ricans dress appropriately (and possibly overdress) for everything. If I went to church now, I'd feel weird going in jeans or flip-flops but realize that if there is an all-loving God, He probably wouldn't care what you're wearing. Cuz he would love you. (Obviously he doesn't cuz, well... look at the world we live in now. But that's my problem, I'll deal with it.)


Wouldn't the heels the ladies wear there chip the marble? :)

Been to PR 3 times, 2 on business, once for fun.  Doesn't seem to matter how tall a lady is in PR, she is rockin' 3" heels *minimum* at the office.

/also the cathedral in Old San Juan is beautiful
 
2014-04-22 12:32:02 PM  

Bullseyed: Decently refreshing in a sea of trolls.

The traditional idea is don't criticize someone if their best dress isn't very good, but everyone still should dress the best they can.

Today, both in our culture and our society, we conform to the lowest common denominator instead of the other way around.


img.fark.net


I blame the limbo

/How low can you go?
 
2014-04-22 12:32:33 PM  

ciberido: Felix_T_Cat: One of my Pastors worked in a previous church that split over something as stupid as whether men could wear baseball caps during the service.  That said, the women here took one of the young girls aside and said, "Hey, you are not just your cleavage."

The scriptural precedent could be that if you're doing something that doesn't matter, but upsets other people, you should stop in consideration for their weakness.


You're probably referring to  Romans 14:1-4, and while I agree with you in principle, the problem is that pretty much EVERYTHING upsets somebody.  To use the specific example Paul used, do you really think that, because SOME Christians might be offended by eating meat or see non-vegetarianism as sinful, that every Christian in the world should practice vegetarianism "in consideration for their weakness"?  That seems rather extreme and impractical.

Also what about Romans 14:3 specifically, where Paul says "the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them"?  Is that not saying that God commands we NOT JUDGE the person who wears a baseball cap or shows off a little too much cleavage?


Bit of a misinterpretation there. If there were a specific Christian sect that centered around the wearing of baseball caps and exposing boobies, it would be more applicable.
 
2014-04-22 12:35:20 PM  

destrip: Even worse than church: ritzy country clubs. My sister dated a rich guy (endodontist) who was a member of the local country club, and he would invite the family up there for their buffet dinners on special occasions. One time I wore some jeans - really nice, brand new jeans - and caught hell. There was no posted prohibition of jeans, and no one said anything to my face, but the waiter eventually came over and said the maitre d' had received a complaint from one of the members that I was wearing jeans. I could not get up and go to the buffet table for the rest of the meal and had to have food brought to me, and beeline for the exit when the meal was done. One of the most humiliating experiences ever, and for wearing jeans? And to think that somebody actually had the nerve to complain about it! As one of those upper crust ladies might say, "Well, I never!"

The next year we went, the sign at the front that once read "GENTS - PLEASE REMOVE HATS" read "NO HATS, BLUE JEANS OR CELL PHONES."

Needless to say, I would never waste my money on one of those snooty clubs, even if I was raking it in.


I don't think you'll ever need to worry about that.
 
2014-04-22 12:35:34 PM  

Diogenes: Carousel Beast: It's weak to point out your hypocrisy? Sorry dude, I call it like I see them. You can't hold up the one as an example to defend and then accuse the other of the exact same thing as an attack.

I'm holding them to their own farking standards.  Not mine.  Sorry that's so hard for you to grasp.


Frankly I don't much care for either of you, so don't mistake this as me weighing in on either side. But I'm tired of reading this squabble so I'm gonna help out with this explanation:

Diogenes, you accused Group X of demanding that everyone else think (dress, believe) the same as they do. Carousel_Beast pointed out that you are criticizing Group X for, essentially, not thinking the way *you* do.

Call it imprecision, irony, or hypocrisy. I don't care, just the both of you shut up unless you have something to say other than no-I-didn't-stupidhead/yes-you-did-jerkface. I'm tired of wading through it to get to the interesting comments.
 
2014-04-22 12:37:24 PM  

Bullseyed: mjohnson71: NewWorldDan: If my wife's church is typical, they should be happy that anyone under the age of 50 is coming to church.

We split our time between our local parish up the block and our old family parish in the city. At the old city church I'd say 80% of the churchgoers are over 50. When we take our 1 and 3 year old we either get the complete stink eye of hate or smiles and approving nods. Whenever the kids are a bit noisy the priest makes sure to mention that a church filled with the cries of youth is a growing church.

/Wish it had a crying room

Always hated that. When I was a kid I was capable of sitting in the pew and paying attention. I'm talking kids and not babies of course, but these days they seem to let kids do whatever they want instead of just babies.

That and the whole "selfie" thing is getting out of control. At Easter mass a couple and their two girls were taking pictures in front of the altar right before mass. Was like wtf...

Family in front of me had 3 kids, had them wearing little wicker fedoras. I know not that long ago women had to keep their heads covered at mass, but since then we hit the "it is disrespectful to wear a hat in church" thing. Anyway, the kids were talking and climbing all over in the pews. When I was that age I would have had my mouth covered if I tried talking and smacked with a hymnal for using the pew as a playground.


You do realize the phrase is "suffer the children to come unto me", not "the children must suffer".  Hell, even into the 1600s it wasn't unheard of for animals to be allowed to wander into services.  One of the complaints about Laude was that he erected a fence around the altar to stop dogs from pissing on it.  This implies that (a) dogs were allowed into services, (b) said dog hiking his leg on the altar not only wasn't seen as weird, but that preventing the dog from doing so was seen as beyond the pale, and (c) even the High church fascist had no problem with the dog in church, but only the pissing on the altar part.

Easter ought to be boisterous and fun.  I don't want to know why the family was taking a selfie - I want to know why you weren't.  Do you think the multitudes mentioned in the gospels were all lined up in solemn rows, with the children bound and gagged?  No.  Unless the disciples were standing there with drawn weapons, cutting down people left and right, the crowds were doing what crowds have been doing forever: milling around, holding side conversations, and trying half-heartedly to snag children running around being kids
 
2014-04-22 12:42:01 PM  
A few years ago, the youth choir was expected to perform and then sit in the choir loft for the remainder of the service.  By the next time, a modesty rail had been installed, and the parents had all received written rules of dress, especially geared to young ladies' hemlines, bustlines, and sheerness.  The boys were expected to wear collared shirts, with no extra writing.  The parents howled until someone (not me, but I wish it had been) pointed out that "Basic Instinct" was not a good role model for girls under the age of 18.  Since the parents were unwilling to teach the kids modesty, the youth director and choir leader had to step in and come up with a fix. The youth choir now wears khakis and polo shirts.  If you want to perform, you gotta buy the uniform.

And if any of you saw the article posted yesterday, the mother of the Kardashian clan wore a freakin' miniskirt on Sunday.  It was hideous.  No Class At All.
 
2014-04-22 12:42:26 PM  

Bullseyed: Always hated that. When I was a kid I was capable of sitting in the pew and paying attention. I'm talking kids and not babies of course, but these days they seem to let kids do whatever they want instead of just babies.


That's part of the reason we go: to try and teach our 3 year old to sit down, shut up and listen for just a little bit.
 
2014-04-22 12:45:13 PM  

hstein3: phalamir: Traditional Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with jeremiads about how 1830s America was the Golden Age of Christianity and if the darkies, women, and poor would just accept that rape and lynching are God's gifts life would be better.

Contemporary Service = soul-crushing monotony interspersed with horribly vapid songs performed by people so musically incompetent passers-by would charge them for busking.

I always thought you couldn't get more useless than a traditional service - until I attended a contemporary one and realized there were entire depths of vacuousness that had not been plumbed.  Pretty much gave up on church after that, when I realized that in 25 years, I had heard a grand total of 3 sermons that weren't complete dreck.

Well, at least it didn't turn you cynical.


Dude, being exposed to American Christianity would turn Pollyanna cynical.  Hell, if Jesus showed up this Sunday at any random church in America, I suspect he would be begging them to nail him back up on the cross before the end of the second hymn.

I have this image of God announcing the Second Coming, and Jesus' reply being to repeat Mark 15:34
 
2014-04-22 12:46:07 PM  
This thread reminded me of what happened to me this past Sunday. Sometimes you just aren't meant to be dressed nicely. I had on work-boots, faded jeans, a tooled leather belt that matched the boots, and a dark pink longsleeved button-down, tucked in with the sleeves rolled up to the elbow. That's about as nice as I ever dress for church, but this is small-town Texas, and that's pretty standard Church Of Christ Sunday attire. Five minutes into the service however, my 5-month-old niece PAINTS me with puke, chest to lap. I really didn't think her belly could hold that much, and I guess not since it came back up. So I hand the little monster back to her parents, and stroll my puke-plastered self back down the aisle and out to my truck, where I had a change of clothes, and I got to finish Easter Sunday wearing brown leather flip-flops, khaki cargo shorts and a John Deere t-shirt. Fist-bump, niece number two.
 
2014-04-22 12:46:49 PM  

mjohnson71: Bullseyed: Always hated that. When I was a kid I was capable of sitting in the pew and paying attention. I'm talking kids and not babies of course, but these days they seem to let kids do whatever they want instead of just babies.

That's part of the reason we go: to try and teach our 3 year old to sit down, shut up and listen for just a little bit.


If you need church to instill that in your kid, please turn your child over to Family Services and then sterilize yourselves.
 
2014-04-22 12:49:53 PM  

DarkVader: There's a much better way of dealing with church than dressing up or not dressing up.

Just don't farking go.  Stay in bed, mow the lawn, get a beej, whatever you feel like.  Because your god isn't real, and there's no point wasting your time or money on badly written fiction.


Now, speaking of tiresome hypocrisy and people who need to just shut up. I'm looking at all you hipster atheists. And yes, that's what it is. Genuine atheists believe what they believe (or disbelieve as the case may be), and while they don't hide it, they don't feel the need to go dick-wagging in the faces of those who do believe in God.

*Hipster* atheists, OTOH, post condescending shiat like this because it's currently trendy. You've got an FSM decal on your car bumper, you stopped redditing when r/atheism got kicked off the defaults list (but you secretly reddit anyway), and-- such an irony-- you roll your eyes as publicly as you can at people who *don't believe what you believe.* And boy you can't wait for one of those atheist churches to open in your city.

The only good thing about it is that, when it inevitably *stops* being trendy, all your smug hypocrisy will still be on the internet. Exposed forever. You'd better open an alt account now if you don't want to look like a newbie when you have to abandon your current accounts.

Lifehack (since you hipsters love those): any time you're being condescending, you're probably wrong and you're definitely an ashhole.
 
2014-04-22 12:50:06 PM  

Felix_T_Cat: Our church ministers to street people.  One of the traditional guys couldn't take the dirt and smells.  He would just about cry when the street folks would break the bread in line ahead of him.  Pastor said, "There was nothing clean and tidy about the crucifixion."  He was also 'germ phobic,' so we started cutting up some of the bread so that people wouldn't touch his portion.  He still left our church.

The remaining people in their Sunday best love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence.  There's a lot of care & compassion going on.

/Evangelical



Do your pews have shiat stains on them?

Funny how people can be convinced that if they just do one thing, they become holier than thou. In this case,  "love on the people with urine and fecal incontinence", if you want to be  one of the team. If you are one of us, you'll do it!!!
 
2014-04-22 12:50:48 PM  

cptjeff: hasty ambush: showed some respect for the occasion.

That's the key. Respect. People hate the idea that they should have to respect anything.

rev. dave: Your respect is not always shown by what you wear, but how you act.

How you dress is part of how you act. It's a conscious choice. When you are choosing to wear informal clothing to a formal occasion, you are acting, and your actions are showing disrespect for your surroundings and for the other people there who did take the time to look presentable.

bhcompy: Mr. Right: When I first entered the ranks of management, office workers were expected to wear suits, white shirts, and ties. One could remove one's jacket in the confines of his office but jackets were always worn at meetings or when meeting with customers or suppliers. Women often wore suits but with skirts. Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity. I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country. During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices. Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes. The employees didn't become dumber or lazier or less creative but the sense of urgency, the standards of professionalism, and the sense of decorum dropped dramatically.

Is this a troll account that I'm not aware of?

What would make you think that? Because somebody has the temerity to say something that doesn't support your pre-existing opinions about how great it is to dress like a slob?


This. I have never believed in casual days dress code.  What message are you sending?  Four days  a week we take things serious but one day we are not?  Does the client/customer/vendor think we are also not taking things serious that day when it comes to their account?   Conversely if one day is OK why not the other four?
 
2014-04-22 12:50:54 PM  

phalamir: Easter ought to be boisterous and fun.  I don't want to know why the family was taking a selfie - I want to know why you weren't.


Because I'm not a disrespectful, self obsessed person who puts my own wants or needs in front of those of others. If you're visiting someone's home for dinner, you don't go lay in their bed, look through their closet or take a dump in the master bathroom.

People are praying at church, focusing on the altar or tabernacle. It is rude to come between them. It demonstrates a lack of respect for your fellow man and a lack of reverence for the place you are in.

When I visited Hindu and Buddhist temples in China, I didn't take pictures inside. It is a place of worship, not a tourist destination. In areas where people were praying or meditating, I was silent. It is rude to interrupt them.
 
2014-04-22 12:51:51 PM  
But shiat, it was 99 cents!!

i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-22 12:52:28 PM  

bhcompy: How does questioning the absurd reasoning behind someone suggesting that not wearing a suit reduces productivity


You didn't do that. You called the poster a troll. And in fact, he's got a pretty good argument. He also has some evidence- personal experience from several decades as a business consultant, responsible for gauging things like productivity, working in different business environments with different dress codes. That makes him credible as an expert on business dynamics (if what he's saying is true, and I have no reason to think he's lying), and allows him to make direct comparison. Expert opinion is citable as a source in just about any publication on the planet, and I've seen other experts in business and psychology make the same case. You responded with ad hominem and mockery, not substance.
 
2014-04-22 12:53:04 PM  

phalamir: Dude, being exposed to American Christianity would turn Pollyanna cynical.  Hell, if Jesus showed up this Sunday at any random church in America, I suspect he would be begging them to nail him back up on the cross before the end of the second hymn.

I have this image of God announcing the Second Coming, and Jesus' reply being to repeat Mark 15:34


We get it, you're a crazy fundie. Enjoy your WBC ceremonies.
 
2014-04-22 12:58:16 PM  

Bullseyed: phalamir: Dude, being exposed to American Christianity would turn Pollyanna cynical.  Hell, if Jesus showed up this Sunday at any random church in America, I suspect he would be begging them to nail him back up on the cross before the end of the second hymn.

I have this image of God announcing the Second Coming, and Jesus' reply being to repeat Mark 15:34

We get it, you're a crazy fundie. Enjoy your WBC ceremonies.


I don't think it is possible to express how off base you are without using scientific notation
 
2014-04-22 01:05:46 PM  
Dressing nicely is pretty well understood as a sign of respect. God does not love you more or less depending on your clothing, and you are not more or less saved based on what you wear. But any good Christian should say, hey, I've been given forgiveness of my sins and the promise of everlasting life after death. Maybe I should do good things unto my fellow man and honor and serve God during my life on this earth.

You don't do this to get in good with God, you do this because you are acknowledging what God has already done for you.

It is not unreasonable to suggest wearing something more than your everyday garments when you stop what you are doing normally and specifically try to pay attention to God for that 55 minutes or so each week. If your present station on earth doesn't include having nice clothes, no problem. But if you have been blessed with money and goods and you do have the means to dress well, perhaps you should.
 
2014-04-22 01:12:00 PM  

bhcompy: This is why churches like Calvary continue to grow while Catholicism and other frumpy, tradition heavy churches stagnate.  There is nothing wrong with going to church in cargo shorts and flipflops.  Hell, Jesus wore a toga.


To be fair, only the most vile, evil men wore trousers back then, since they had no morals and was seen as a sign of being untrustworthy. A number of wars were fought over the centuries with those sickos who would wear trousers back in the day.
 
2014-04-22 01:15:07 PM  

Its Still Real to Me Damnit!: But shiat, it was 99 cents!!

[i.imgur.com image 575x862]


If I had a coat like that, I'd be like the second greatest bro of all-time or something. F*cking alpha as sh*t. I'd wear it to take my morning s*** and I'd look great in it doing so - wearing nothing else mind you. Be pretty nice.
 
2014-04-22 01:15:37 PM  
When I was first checking out the Unitarian church, I called and asked about what to wear for services. The lady I spoke to said "well, you could wear a suit if you really want to, but you'd be the exception. We much prefer that people be comfortable, so your regular weekend clothes are fine."
 
2014-04-22 01:16:02 PM  

Mr. Right: Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity.  I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country.  During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices.  Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes


Well your assertion is disproven by facts, productivity has increased consistantly in the past 25 years.

http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm
 
2014-04-22 01:16:52 PM  

Bullseyed: don't criticize someone if their best dress isn't very good, but everyone still should dress the best they can.


QFT
 
2014-04-22 01:23:04 PM  

Bullseyed: Family in front of me had 3 kids, had them wearing little wicker fedoras. I know not that long ago women had to keep their heads covered at mass, but since then we hit the "it is disrespectful to wear a hat in church" thing. Anyway, the kids were talking and climbing all over in the pews. When I was that age I would have had my mouth covered if I tried talking and smacked with a hymnal for using the pew as a playground.


Better your church than the shiatheads who drag their spastic crotchfruit into bars and restaraunts like in my neighborhood.
 
2014-04-22 01:25:47 PM  

bhcompy: Mr. Right: When I first entered the ranks of management, office workers were expected to wear suits, white shirts, and ties. One could remove one's jacket in the confines of his office but jackets were always worn at meetings or when meeting with customers or suppliers. Women often wore suits but with skirts. Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity. I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country. During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices. Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes. The employees didn't become dumber or lazier or less creative but the sense of urgency, the standards of professionalism, and the sense of decorum dropped dramatically.

Is this a troll account that I'm not aware of?


It's not and, except for the bit about productivity, I agree. Don't show up to your brother's wedding in pajamas. Don't show up to grandpa's funeral in shorts and a Juggaloes tee. Don't show up to the classy gentleman's club in a collar-less shirt.

Seriously, dressing better for the nudie bar than for church? Yes: unlike the nudie bar, the church will (or should) warmly welcome you *whatever* you wear. That doesn't mean you take advantage of that by wearing crap if you've got better. God doesn't care, but show some respect for where you are and the people you're with.

/many of you arguing with this think jeans sagging is a social blight. Yet you can't see a problem here. Wtf?
 
2014-04-22 01:37:12 PM  

ciberido: gunslinger_RG: Everything wrong with American Christian Right is actually nut shelled in this article if you study it.   American Christian right fundie's today, are not arguing over actual tenets of Christian dogma or parts of high theology but they are up in arms over their TRADITIONS as they have come to know them.  You dress for church, women have a certain role, gays don't come out of the closet, and black men don't get to be president.  It is why they make no sense in terms of actual Christianity because that is not in any way shape or form what they are fighting for at all.

They are pissed the world changed and their traditions are giving way.. as all traditions must... to a new dawn and a new age.

One of the biggest controversies among Christians today (in terms of what causes a regular churchgoer to leave one church to go to another) is whether the church service uses "modern" or "traditional" music.  This includes replacing choirs with "praise teams," or using "nontraditional" instruments like drums and guitars, or singing newer songs in addition to the ones your grandmother sang at church.  Churches actually self-destruct over this issue.  New pastor comes in, maybe brings in a new music director, someone decides to update the music, adds new songs, brings in a praise team with drums and guitars, and the people over 50 go nuts.  There are arguments, meetings, the new guy refuses to go back to the way it was, and most of the older folks go to some other church that still does things the old fashioned way.  Then, because the congregation is only half the size it used to be, there are budget cuts, projects get cancelled, more people drift away.  The church may weather the storm and bounce back, or it may implode.

Down the street, the traditional church?  It's less dramatic, but it's dwindling because most of the congregation is that over-50 crowd and they're not getting any younger.  They're loyal and they stick with the church to the bitter end, but the nice young couples with two kids who just moved into the area won't join.  They don't want 12 people in robes singing "Bringing in the Sheaves" while Mildred the octogenarian plays the piano.  No young couples and no kids means this church is dying, too --- just more slowly.  When you have more funerals than baptisms plus weddings, you're doomed.

Some churches try to keep everyone happy by having both a "contemporary" service and a "traditional service," but that has its own set of problems.  It's much more work for everyone involved, for one thing, and it really only works if your congregation was large enough (compared to the size of the physical building) that you pretty much needed to do double services anyway to accommodate the numbers.  And even then the mere fact that a contemporary service happens is enough to piss off some of the more crotchety oldtimers.

Yes, it's petty and trivial and ridiculous, but this is causing churches to self-destruct all over the USA.  And that's just the music, don't even get me started on pews and baptismal immersion and a million other nitpicks that churchgoers lose their freaking minds over.


All of which is the result of human frailties, the way we cling to what we're individually used to. Over, as you say, little things like the style of music.

And then everybody loses their minds when the Catholics "refuse to get with the 21st century" over issues with actual faith implications like reproductive technology.

Anyone who thinks about human nature for even half an hour can't be surprised that the Church changes glacially on many things. If it didn't, the balkanization of Protestantism would be tiny by comparison.
 
2014-04-22 01:38:00 PM  
Jesus is too busy cutting your grass to care
 
2014-04-22 01:38:19 PM  

ObscureNameHere: Needlessly Complicated: Heh. Reminds me of when I was a kid in Puerto Rico and Sunday morning church was basically a fashion show. Puerto Ricans dress appropriately (and possibly overdress) for everything. If I went to church now, I'd feel weird going in jeans or flip-flops but realize that if there is an all-loving God, He probably wouldn't care what you're wearing. Cuz he would love you. (Obviously he doesn't cuz, well... look at the world we live in now. But that's my problem, I'll deal with it.)

Wouldn't the heels the ladies wear there chip the marble? :)

Been to PR 3 times, 2 on business, once for fun.  Doesn't seem to matter how tall a lady is in PR, she is rockin' 3" heels *minimum* at the office.

/also the cathedral in Old San Juan is beautiful


Probably. :)

And it's kinda like that in Dallas, too.

I used to wear high heels all the time. These days, not so much. They hurt my feet. And the really high platforms? I get vertigo just looking at them. I don't know how all these women do it.
 
2014-04-22 01:41:00 PM  

bhcompy: This is why churches like Calvary continue to grow while Catholicism and other frumpy, tradition heavy churches stagnate.  There is nothing wrong with going to church in cargo shorts and flipflops.  Hell, Jesus wore a toga.


Wat???  Have you been to a mass lately?  I go in jeans and a golf shirt and that is pretty dressy.  The closest our priest ever came to saying anything about dress was at the 5:30 pm mass on Sunday.  They add that one during the summer for people coming back from the beach.  He just asked that you change out of bikini's before "SERVING" communion.  They may have relaxed a little since you went... maybe.

I mean there are some African ladies who wear these AMAZING dresses and their husbands are decked out too.. and some of the Indian ladies dress in traditional Indian garb which is pretty well put together.  In fact, I like looking around and seeing all kinds, colors, and what not of people.  I don't know, for me, makes me feel like maybe this is how it should be.   If I looked around and only saw boring old white dudes like me... I would be gone.
 
2014-04-22 01:41:04 PM  

brimed03: It's not and, except for the bit about productivity, I agree. Don't show up to your brother's wedding in pajamas. Don't show up to grandpa's funeral in shorts and a Juggaloes tee. Don't show up to the classy gentleman's club in a collar-less shirt.

Seriously, dressing better for the nudie bar than for church? Yes: unlike the nudie bar, the church will (or should) warmly welcome you *whatever* you wear. That doesn't mean you take advantage of that by wearing crap if you've got better. God doesn't care, but show some respect for where you are and the people you're with.


People should certainly understand where they are and dress applicably, you should not show up to formal events like a funeral or a wedding outside of how that event expects people to dress.  That would be disrespectful to the *people* hosting the event.

I suppose churches should set this expectation before a question of "disrespect" can be ascertained - if it is a formal church that expects it, than I assume that could be taken as "disrspectful" towards those who run the church (although, If I were still a follower of mesopotamian mythology I would probably think it is more disrespectful to waste money that could be going to helping the poor and dry cleaning my suit so that I can show off to my peers in a meaningless display of peacocking).

The idiots who decry the fact that people no longer dress up to get on planes, or that employees who don't see customers should somehow have to wear suits like I do are just old people angry that the world has changed, just like I am sure their grandparents decried thing x they did that was 'disrespectful' to their lemming like servitude towards tradition.
 
2014-04-22 01:45:11 PM  
We've lost something in our society in the past few years.   I went to a funeral last week and was surprised to see many professional people wearing shorts and sports shirts to the wake.  To me it's a sign of respect to dress appropriately to certain functions.
 
2014-04-22 01:45:38 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Its Still Real to Me Damnit!: But shiat, it was 99 cents!!

[i.imgur.com image 575x862]

If I had a coat like that, I'd be like the second greatest bro of all-time or something. F*cking alpha as sh*t. I'd wear it to take my morning s*** and I'd look great in it doing so - wearing nothing else mind you. Be pretty nice.


costumei.com
 
2014-04-22 01:46:13 PM  

lilplatinum: Mr. Right: Nowadays, wearing a tie in an office is a rarity.  I was a consultant for over 25 years and worked with clients all over the country.  During that part of my career is when the dress codes changed in offices.  Having observed the change in a couple of companies, including 2 Fortune 100 companies, I would posit that productivity declined after the relaxation of dress codes

Well your assertion is disproven by facts, productivity has increased consistantly in the past 25 years.

http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm


Unless I read those charts incorrectly, they were referring to labor productivity.  When it comes to manufacturing productivity and the productivity of jobs like writing code or doing CAD drawings, there is absolutely no doubt that productivity is much higher than at any time in history and it will only continue to grow as we learn how to better utilize existing technologies and develop new ones.  When someone is working on tasks either on a machine or in an office on a solo basis, how one dresses is unimportant.  But in the "soft" jobs like management, HR, etc. and in meetings and collaborative projects, it was my experience that the more casually people dressed, the more casually they performed.   It was much easier to sidetrack discussions, harder to keep a group focused.  The only thing that wrecked a meeting more was somebody bringing donuts in half-way through the meeting.

Probably the worst part (and only peripherally affected productivity) was that how someone dressed became a subject of discussion.  When all your suits are some shade of  navy blue or dark gray (a really wild suit was one with a chalk stripe instead of a pin stripe) all your shirts are white, all your socks are black, your power ties go with about any dark color of suit you own, and your greatest deliberation is which pair of black wing-tips to wear today, getting dressed can be accomplished in the dark.  Once you go casual, you have to consider whether this shirt goes with these slacks; whether these shoes match the rest of your ensemble or are too casual/dressy; should I wear a jacket or a sweater?  What kind of sweater?  Does this sportcoat match the slacks/shirt?  I know that women have been doing this all their lives but us olde phart guys had one hell of a learning curve.
 
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