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(io9)   Viewers ask: Has Game of Thrones finally gone too far? (spoilers) (and references to rape involving siblings over the corpse of their dead offspring, but whatever)   (io9.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, Game of Thrones, Too Far, A Storm of Swords, Sansa, Tyrion, birds and the bees, Arya, Daenerys Targaryen  
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4875 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 21 Apr 2014 at 7:59 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-21 06:23:00 PM  
The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.
 
2014-04-21 06:27:14 PM  

DamnYankees: The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.


Except we don't know that until we see where they continue to take that arc.
 
2014-04-21 06:28:49 PM  

kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.

Except we don't know that until we see where they continue to take that arc.


Not sure what you mean.
 
2014-04-21 06:32:29 PM  
Rape is simply the lazy male writer's shorthand for "the worst thing I can have happen to a woman character." The whole scene was badly done, and I thought that (still) having read none of the books. Actually, I think last night's episode overall was the weakest one I can remember, on every front. They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible. Even the Arya section was drawn out and predictable.
 
2014-04-21 06:33:08 PM  

DamnYankees: The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.


So he got over his feelings for his lover and his dead son?
 
2014-04-21 06:34:32 PM  

Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible.


Dany's story is somewhat boring for the same reason's Bran is - it has absolutely no interaction with anything else happening in the show. It's a completely isolated story, almost a totally different TV show, where Barriston Selmy is the crossover figure. It's a problem.

That being said, I really do enjoy watching Emilia Clarke speak fake languages.
 
2014-04-21 06:36:47 PM  

DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

Dany's story is somewhat boring for the same reason's Bran is - it has absolutely no interaction with anything else happening in the show. It's a completely isolated story, almost a totally different TV show, where Barriston Selmy is the crossover figure. It's a problem.

That being said, I really do enjoy watching Emilia Clarke speak fake languages.


It isn't necessary to continue. But I now miss season 1 Dany.
 
2014-04-21 06:41:31 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Rape is simply the lazy male writer's shorthand for "the worst thing I can have happen to a woman character." The whole scene was badly done, and I thought that (still) having read none of the books. Actually, I think last night's episode overall was the weakest one I can remember, on every front. They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible. Even the Arya section was drawn out and predictable.


This whole season is going to be pretty drawn out unless they get in to book 4. The Frieza Saga comes to mind.
 
2014-04-21 06:43:52 PM  
No, they haven't gone too far for me.  I'm a grown-up and can handle icky fictional stories.

I've heard real-life things more disturbing.
 
2014-04-21 06:45:39 PM  

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.

Except we don't know that until we see where they continue to take that arc.

Not sure what you mean.


It means by definition of an 'arc', we have to see the consequences of a given action to know whether the action makes sense in the context of the story.

All we've seen so far is the act (or really, part of the act). We have no idea what the fallout will be for Jaime or Cersei. If it is simply dropped the critics will have a valid point. But we don't know yet.
 
2014-04-21 06:53:30 PM  
And actually, I assume you mean that Jaime has been slowly developing apparent compassion and a sense of humility. He's not the same Jaime we saw in episode one. And that is true.

However, you have to bear in mind that he developed those changes in character away from Cersei. Now that he is back with her, it isn't unreasonable to expect some of "bad Jaime" to re-emerge and start tossing 3 year olds out of windows.

So to speak.
 
2014-04-21 07:07:08 PM  

gilgigamesh: However, you have to bear in mind that he developed those changes in character away from Cersei. Now that he is back with her, it isn't unreasonable to expect some of "bad Jaime" to re-emerge and start tossing 3 year olds out of windows.


Maybe, but as far as I'm aware Jaime's never been a rapist. In fact, he seems to be one of the very, very few people on the show who has shown NO desire at all for sexual violence, or really any sort of sexuality at all other than having actual intimacy with Cersei. It just didn't make any sense at all he would rape her.
 
2014-04-21 07:09:39 PM  

DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: However, you have to bear in mind that he developed those changes in character away from Cersei. Now that he is back with her, it isn't unreasonable to expect some of "bad Jaime" to re-emerge and start tossing 3 year olds out of windows.

Maybe, but as far as I'm aware Jaime's never been a rapist. In fact, he seems to be one of the very, very few people on the show who has shown NO desire at all for sexual violence, or really any sort of sexuality at all other than having actual intimacy with Cersei. It just didn't make any sense at all he would rape her.


I agree. And there will have to be a pretty well explained follow-up to justify this change in character. But let's not assume that won't happen when were only three episodes in to the season.
 
2014-04-21 07:17:47 PM  
Next week you will have Cercei using what happened against Jamie, trying to guilt trip him into killing Tyrion because of what he did to her.

Jamie will not need a guilt trip, since he will hate himself for becoming what he fought so hard not to become. He will finally see that Cercei is a bad influence and will finally want to be rid of her.

And all will be right with the fandom - as Cercei will be back to being the biatch and Jamie will be back on the road to being the perfect boyfriend.
 
2014-04-21 07:26:51 PM  

DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: However, you have to bear in mind that he developed those changes in character away from Cersei. Now that he is back with her, it isn't unreasonable to expect some of "bad Jaime" to re-emerge and start tossing 3 year olds out of windows.

Maybe, but as far as I'm aware Jaime's never been a rapist. In fact, he seems to be one of the very, very few people on the show who has shown NO desire at all for sexual violence, or really any sort of sexuality at all other than having actual intimacy with Cersei. It just didn't make any sense at all he would rape her.


I don't know. It seemed like she rejected him because of his lack of a hand. He was the King Slayer- powerful. Now he's nothing. I saw her as rejecting a powerless man. It was his way of asserting his power.
 
2014-04-21 07:36:43 PM  
I  can't imagine that anyone who thinks that was "too far" is still watching this show.  I can't imagine that they made it through the Red Wedding.
 
2014-04-21 07:42:56 PM  

DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

Dany's story is somewhat boring for the same reason's Bran is - it has absolutely no interaction with anything else happening in the show. It's a completely isolated story, almost a totally different TV show, where Barriston Selmy is the crossover figure. It's a problem.

That being said, I really do enjoy watching Emilia Clarke speak fake languages.


She's my odds-on favorite as Leeloo in a "Fifth Element" reboot.
 
2014-04-21 08:04:10 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: No, they haven't gone too far for me.  I'm a grown-up and can handle icky fictional stories.

I've heard real-life things more disturbing.


This
 
2014-04-21 08:04:32 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: DamnYankees: Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

Dany's story is somewhat boring for the same reason's Bran is - it has absolutely no interaction with anything else happening in the show. It's a completely isolated story, almost a totally different TV show, where Barriston Selmy is the crossover figure. It's a problem.

That being said, I really do enjoy watching Emilia Clarke speak fake languages.

She's my odds-on favorite as Leeloo in a "Fifth Element" reboot.


You should be slapped 10,000 times with the testicles of a dead whale for even thinking about rebooting that movie
 
2014-04-21 08:06:17 PM  
When Jamie gave Cersei the shocker with his metal hand I thought her eyes were going to shoot out of her head.

By Gawd, that's some quality screenwriting right there!
 
2014-04-21 08:07:40 PM  
Repeat thread. Just i09 clickbaiting.
 
2014-04-21 08:15:19 PM  
This is the same show that has had incest, beheadings, people being burned alive, children being murdered, a man being tortured and having his penis cut off, and a visibly pregnant woman being stabbed repeatedly in the belly, and NOW people are wondering if it went too far?

You can close the barn door. The horse is gone.
 
2014-04-21 08:17:18 PM  

stoli n coke: This is the same show that has had incest, beheadings, people being burned alive, children being murdered, a man being tortured and having his penis cut off, and a visibly pregnant woman being stabbed repeatedly in the belly, and NOW people are wondering if it went too far?

You can close the barn door. The horse is gone.


Well shiat, the bandits are going to rape the horse
 
2014-04-21 08:18:24 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: stoli n coke: This is the same show that has had incest, beheadings, people being burned alive, children being murdered, a man being tortured and having his penis cut off, and a visibly pregnant woman being stabbed repeatedly in the belly, and NOW people are wondering if it went too far?

You can close the barn door. The horse is gone.

Well shiat, the bandits are going to rape the horse


Eh, or shoot it in the eye.
 
2014-04-21 08:21:55 PM  
OH HAI! We had this thread already.

But it wasn't by a preferred link so I guess this'll do...

It wasn't rape in the books, and I haven't seen the show so will someone finally answer me:

It's been a while since I read the 'Crows' book, but didn't he rape her in that scene too?

I remember vaguely her saying 'no, not here, stop that' and then essentially 'giving in' and all that. Did they play it out as straight up 'nope, this is happening, bite the shroud, I'm going in rough!"?

Was it straight up "POUND POUND POUND" or did Cersi get into it like she did in the books?
 
2014-04-21 08:25:28 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Pocket Ninja: Rape is simply the lazy male writer's shorthand for "the worst thing I can have happen to a woman character." The whole scene was badly done, and I thought that (still) having read none of the books. Actually, I think last night's episode overall was the weakest one I can remember, on every front. They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible. Even the Arya section was drawn out and predictable.

This whole season is going to be pretty drawn out unless they get in to book 4. The Frieza Saga comes to mind.




While I haven't read the books, I know how the Frieza Saga ends

img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-04-21 08:26:42 PM  
I could see him wanted to slap Queen 'I blew you off but you'll still totally kill our brother for me, right babe?'  Cersi around for, well, everything.  But how do the male, ahem, mechanics work for this?

"Look, it's my dead son!" = *SPROING*

That's what caught me by surprise.  Maybe George R.R. was just feeling especially R-y that day?
 
2014-04-21 08:29:23 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: OH HAI! We had this thread already.

But it wasn't by a preferred link so I guess this'll do...

It wasn't rape in the books, and I haven't seen the show so will someone finally answer me:

It's been a while since I read the 'Crows' book, but didn't he rape her in that scene too?

I remember vaguely her saying 'no, not here, stop that' and then essentially 'giving in' and all that. Did they play it out as straight up 'nope, this is happening, bite the shroud, I'm going in rough!"?

Was it straight up "POUND POUND POUND" or did Cersi get into it like she did in the books?


It seemed like she was starting to like it right when it ended. I hate episodes like this one, almost every storyline that episode ended with some sort of question or cliffhanger to be answered in the future.
 
2014-04-21 08:31:14 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: This whole season is going to be pretty drawn out unless they get in to book 4. The Frieza Saga comes to mind.


Except for the murder by crossbow, the trial, the trial by combat (which is in the god damn previews).

Yeah someone dying by poison and screaming for release while a madman operates on him, COMPLETELY drawn out and not worth anyone's time you pedantic cockjockey.
 
2014-04-21 08:31:36 PM  

jake_lex: I  can't imagine that anyone who thinks that was "too far" is still watching this show.  I can't imagine that they made it through the Red Wedding.


Hell with the Red Wedding. Theon's entire storyline last year was way more uncomfortable than anything else so far.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the leader of the cannibals is reminiscent of The Kurgan?
 
2014-04-21 08:39:32 PM  
ASOIAF is full of rape. That didn't bother me.

What bothered me was that it is completely out of character for Jaime, especially with how they changed it from the book
 
2014-04-21 08:40:33 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Rape is simply the lazy male writer's shorthand for "the worst thing I can have happen to a woman character." The whole scene was badly done, and I thought that (still) having read none of the books. Actually, I think last night's episode overall was the weakest one I can remember, on every front. They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story, and I wouldn't have thought that was possible. Even the Arya section was drawn out and predictable.


Well, let's check out the list of things the male writer or any writer has to choose from for this genre in the category of really bad things.

1. Murder
2. Rape
3. Kidnap
4. Chop off a body part.
5. Do any of the above to a loved one.

Everything else is not so bad. (Beat down, Dishonour, embarrass, rob, etc.)
 
2014-04-21 08:41:13 PM  
Well it is a horrible world full of horrible people.  That's kind of the point, isn't it?
 
2014-04-21 08:42:49 PM  

NeoCortex42: jake_lex: I  can't imagine that anyone who thinks that was "too far" is still watching this show.  I can't imagine that they made it through the Red Wedding.

Hell with the Red Wedding. Theon's entire storyline last year was way more uncomfortable than anything else so far.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the leader of the cannibals is reminiscent of The Kurgan?


Hi, I'm Candy!
 
2014-04-21 08:42:55 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: OH HAI! We had this thread already.

But it wasn't by a preferred link so I guess this'll do...

It wasn't rape in the books, and I haven't seen the show so will someone finally answer me:

It's been a while since I read the 'Crows' book, but didn't he rape her in that scene too?

I remember vaguely her saying 'no, not here, stop that' and then essentially 'giving in' and all that. Did they play it out as straight up 'nope, this is happening, bite the shroud, I'm going in rough!"?

Was it straight up "POUND POUND POUND" or did Cersi get into it like she did in the books?


It was basically just like the books, but a bunch of Jaime fanboys are upset that, now that the scene isn't being told from his apologetic and unreliable perspective, it's obviously rape.
 
2014-04-21 08:43:20 PM  

Decillion: Everything else is not so bad. (Beat down, Dishonour, embarrass, rob, etc.)


Your pragmatic outlook has turned me on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9Ox2k88nU
 
2014-04-21 08:44:02 PM  
that was hardly rape...def 1 out of 5 stars on a 5 star rape scale
 
2014-04-21 08:45:37 PM  
comm2302metafiction.files.wordpress.com
Grief is nature's most powerful aphrodisiac.
 
2014-04-21 08:53:41 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: stoli n coke: This is the same show that has had incest, beheadings, people being burned alive, children being murdered, a man being tortured and having his penis cut off, and a visibly pregnant woman being stabbed repeatedly in the belly, and NOW people are wondering if it went too far?

You can close the barn door. The horse is gone.

Well shiat, the bandits are going to rape the horse


And the horses will scream, "NEIGH!" and still get banged by their bro in front of their dead, incestuous pony.
 
2014-04-21 08:54:44 PM  
Does it make me a bad person that the I was happy that show skipped over the whole she was on her "moons blood" when he "raped" her in the book? Incest and rape I can handle but knowingly and willingly farking her when she has her period is just too much.
 
2014-04-21 08:54:47 PM  
The bonus is the show condensed about 100 pages of will she/won't she in to less than five minutes.

/seriously, those chapters covering that portion of Sansa's story were painful
 
2014-04-21 08:55:17 PM  
Verrai:

It was basically just like the books,


no, it really wasn't
 
2014-04-21 08:56:48 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: OH HAI! We had this thread already.

But it wasn't by a preferred link so I guess this'll do...

It wasn't rape in the books, and I haven't seen the show so will someone finally answer me:

It's been a while since I read the 'Crows' book, but didn't he rape her in that scene too?

I remember vaguely her saying 'no, not here, stop that' and then essentially 'giving in' and all that. Did they play it out as straight up 'nope, this is happening, bite the shroud, I'm going in rough!"?

Was it straight up "POUND POUND POUND" or did Cersi get into it like she did in the books?


If the scene had gone on another 30 seconds it would have had her getting into it more. As it was, it seems like she is starting to get swept up into in.

As it was, it's rougher than the book portrays it. The book is clearer, but biased by the POV.
 
2014-04-21 09:00:15 PM  

Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story,


You can't tell the players without a program. You're welcome.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-21 09:02:36 PM  

killzoe: NeoCortex42: jake_lex: I  can't imagine that anyone who thinks that was "too far" is still watching this show.  I can't imagine that they made it through the Red Wedding.

Hell with the Red Wedding. Theon's entire storyline last year was way more uncomfortable than anything else so far.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the leader of the cannibals is reminiscent of The Kurgan?

Hi, I'm Candy!


Of course you are.
 
2014-04-21 09:05:19 PM  

Johnny Texas: DamnYankees: The issue isn't "going too far". It's just bad character work. It rips up the arc they'd made with Jamie's character.

When during that arc did we see him swear to not continue banging his sister?


I never saw it, all I saw was Jamie realize that it's important to treat some people that aren't Lannisters like shiat and not to always play the gold and nobility card....maybe get a bit of a lust/crush on Brienne of Tarth ...something about being locked up, dependent on others, and having a hand chopped off can do that to a person.
 
2014-04-21 09:07:38 PM  

StopLurkListen: Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story,

You can't tell the players without a program. You're welcome.

[i.imgur.com image 500x662]


That picture was hilarious, thanks.
 
2014-04-21 09:10:03 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: No, they haven't gone too far for me.  I'm a grown-up and can handle icky fictional stories.

I've heard real-life things more disturbing.


THIS
and while it is not as verbose as in the book, meh, whatever
I can get over not being perfect, because NOTHING is ever perfect. EVER.

FFS these people have too many panties that keep getting bunched.

Next they are going to complain about all the boobies in the episode.
 
2014-04-21 09:14:24 PM  
Meh. Hardly rape rape.

I did hope there might be some stump rape action. That would have been...interesting.
 
2014-04-21 09:16:03 PM  

StopLurkListen: Pocket Ninja: They're actually starting to bore me with the damn elf woman/whatever her name is/dragons story,

You can't tell the players without a program. You're welcome.

[i.imgur.com image 500x662]


THIS is much more informative/enjoyable/
 
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