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(The Atlantic)   The sorry state of American beer   (theatlantic.com) divider line 212
    More: Sad, American beers, market segments, Miller High Life, Information Resources Inc.  
•       •       •

11772 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



212 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-21 07:03:13 AM
"Bartender, pour me a Lagunitas"

Slightly dyslexic buddy of mine called it LAW-GWEN-TAS for the longest time.
 
2014-04-21 07:06:44 AM
Yeah, I can't get anything but Bud and Miller in America.

/Sheesh
 
2014-04-21 07:10:15 AM
That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.
 
2014-04-21 07:10:59 AM
cdn.theatlantic.com

Wow. I would have pissed in the bottles for a lot less.
 
2014-04-21 07:14:52 AM
I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.
 
2014-04-21 07:16:50 AM

CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.


I was told it puts hair on your balls. My, how grandma had a way with words.
 
2014-04-21 07:19:52 AM
Huh, kind of surprised that Miller High Life is taking such a pounding. That's kind of our go-to cheap beer....hell of a lot better than Coors or Bud.

Frickin' Bud Light though...I guess 3 million Midwestern women aged 18-29 can't be wrong.
 
2014-04-21 07:22:26 AM
9/10 subby. You got a greenlight and started the semi-weekly beer snob thread
 
2014-04-21 07:26:17 AM
I ONLY DRINK FLANNEL BROS. HOPPIN' HOPSCOTCH OLD TIMEY BICYCLE LEANIN' 'GAINST A TREE DUBBEL CREAM TRAPPIST BELGIAN WAFFEL STOUT, SERVED IN AN OLD BOOT.
 
2014-04-21 07:26:30 AM

CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.


More for me I guess.
 
2014-04-21 07:26:39 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


You say that like it's a bad thing.

*eyes you*
 
2014-04-21 07:27:00 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


/smashes bottle on bar

Yous got a problem with IPA pal?
 
2014-04-21 07:28:09 AM

HaywoodJablonski: 9/10 subby. You got a greenlight and started the semi-weekly beer snob thread


I like how snob has come to mean anyone with a preference or anyone who chooses something besides bland macro brews
 
2014-04-21 07:29:21 AM
craft beers generally remain way behind the main domestic brews and imports in both case sales and revenue. Part of the explanation for this has to do with distribution.

The fact that the next sentence wasn't pointing out that any beer with competitive national distribution is by definition not a craft-scale beer (Sam Adams is sort of on the edge, honestly) kinda makes me doubt that this guy has the perspective required to be allowed to have an opinion on anything.

// If you have more than one facility involved in your product or own a separate distribution concern as a subsidiary or sole affiliate, technically you're not a 'craft beer' anymore.
 
2014-04-21 07:30:12 AM
Bud Light is only about 9 IBU's and that is not acceptable for my refined pallate.  I only drink Heady Topper which is packed with over 120 IBU's which I am told is very important or something.
 
2014-04-21 07:31:58 AM
i.imgur.com

that's why I don't drink Yankee canned peepee
 
2014-04-21 07:32:05 AM
You can tell me what beer you drink but I won't pay attention until you post a picture of it for no reason. I've probably never heard of it anyways.
 
2014-04-21 07:32:37 AM

CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.


WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


Was at a large liquor store on Saturday and they had a bunch of sixers marked down 50%.  When I looked to see what they were they were all IPAs and other super hopped beers that nobody was buying.
 
2014-04-21 07:33:32 AM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: HaywoodJablonski: 9/10 subby. You got a greenlight and started the semi-weekly beer snob thread

I like how snob has come to mean anyone with a preference or anyone who chooses something besides bland macro brews


Point taken. Someone will call someone else a snob at some point in this thread though, I guarantee.
 
2014-04-21 07:34:03 AM

CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.


I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.
 
2014-04-21 07:34:29 AM
A few years ago I went on a cross country bicycle tour. Bud Lights dominance on the American landscape was obvious. It was a boring ride across 2000 miles of farm fields and scrub grass into a headwind. I had nothing to look at but the trash collecting in the ditches. It was mostly Bud Light cans. It was striking enough that it required remarking on.
 
2014-04-21 07:34:56 AM
just because I thought it was funny...

My dad drank at least a 6 pack of Bud every day since he was a teenager. then due to medical reason he wasn't able to drink for about 2 months. so after his first sip when he could drink again, he acts super surprised at the taste and says "beer isn't supposed to taste like that!"

It gave me a chuckle.

/csb
 
2014-04-21 07:36:09 AM
No, snob means people who look down on others for their preferences. The whole "macro brew tastes like piss" is already in the gdamn thread.
 
2014-04-21 07:36:11 AM
By case volume, the mega breweries had a combined, average growth of  0.8%.  Imports had combined growth of 6%.  Craft breweries had growth of 19.4%  What is so sorry about that, subby?
 
2014-04-21 07:41:59 AM
www.namibiansun.com
 
2014-04-21 07:43:15 AM
www.ecmmogamers.com
 
2014-04-21 07:43:18 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


Seriously. The worst part is that they all end up tasting the same- they all taste like hops. While hoppiness is key to the flavor of beer, if it conceals the malt, all you're really doing is making a shiatty beer.
 
2014-04-21 07:43:58 AM

awfulperson: I ONLY DRINK FLANNEL BROS. HOPPIN' HOPSCOTCH OLD TIMEY BICYCLE LEANIN' 'GAINST A TREE DUBBEL CREAM TRAPPIST BELGIAN WAFFEL STOUT, SERVED IN AN OLD BOOT.


I chuckled. And I would totally drink a 'waffel stout.'

Truth is there has never been a better time to be a beer aficionado in the US. It's to the point where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a brewpub, at least in some states.

I can handle the beer snobs, they're easy to ignore and/or ridicule behind their goatees. However I do tire of overhopped battery-acid beer. I make beer and I see the tendency of brewpubs/microbrews to overhop beers like IPAs as the equivalent of the US megabrews to underhop their pisswater fizzy pale yellow watery lagers. It's actually harder to make the latter than the former, at least in terms of hitting the style. When you dump ten ounces of hops in your batch your cat could take a dump in the wort and you probably wouldn't be able to tell under all those hops. But making a light later taste right is a real challenge.

The megabrews will get little sympathy from me. They probably spend more in advertising than all microbrews spend on equipment and ingredients. Some will likely die the death of a thousand cuts as more people "drink locally" or at least drink a larger variety. There is a time and a place for a six pack of aluminum cans full of fizzy beer, but 99% of the time I'd rather drink water.
 
2014-04-21 07:47:19 AM

aszure: [www.ecmmogamers.com image 600x904]


Hands-down favorite IPA
 
2014-04-21 07:47:44 AM

t3knomanser: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Seriously. The worst part is that they all end up tasting the same- they all taste like hops. While hoppiness is key to the flavor of beer, if it conceals the malt, all you're really doing is making a shiatty beer.


Exactly. Which is why I still think the Germans make the best beer in the world.... mostly lagers and oh that wonderful malt....
 
2014-04-21 07:48:59 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: HaywoodJablonski: 9/10 subby. You got a greenlight and started the semi-weekly beer snob thread

I like how snob has come to mean anyone with a preference or anyone who chooses something besides bland macro brews

Point taken. Someone will call someone else a snob at some point in this thread though, I guarantee.


How snobby of you...

; )
 
2014-04-21 07:50:24 AM

t3knomanser: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Seriously. The worst part is that they all end up tasting the same- they all taste like hops. While hoppiness is key to the flavor of beer, if it conceals the malt, all you're really doing is making a shiatty beer.


Well most beers taste like hops or malt or a combo of the two. You could say the same about too much of either one
 
2014-04-21 07:53:10 AM
I have to agree that too many brewers are jumping on the "as hoppy as possible" IPA bandwagon, and it needs to stop. Pretty much anything with "hop" in the name.

Granted I'm biased, but one of the best IPAs I've had in recent years is from my buddy's brew pub, he calls it "Facelift". Its hoppy, but has an appropriate malt balance.

Its kind of like a hoppier version of the Sierra Nevada pale ale, which is one of my all-time favorites. It's just so well balanced. One of the things I liked about the west coast was that Sierra Nevada was available on tap like Sam Adams is on the east coast.

But to the topic, I think Dogfish Head is doing it right. They have their line of IPAs, but also keep making small experimental batches of some truly unique brews, if you can find them.

Not that I drink much beer these days. Stupid celiac :-(
 
2014-04-21 07:53:24 AM

b0rscht: Which is why I still think the Germans make the best beer in the world.... mostly lagers and oh that wonderful malt....


I'm the sort of person who likes to suck down a fruity Belgian.

Come on, we're not doing "phrasing"?

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: Well most beers taste like hops or malt or a combo of the two. You could say the same about too much of either one


Yes you could, but the point I'm making is that the fashion in craft beer in the US has swung so far out into hop-land that I think a lot of beer drinkers don't even know what malt  tastes like.
 
2014-04-21 07:57:26 AM

t3knomanser: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Seriously. The worst part is that they all end up tasting the same- they all taste like hops. While hoppiness is key to the flavor of beer, if it conceals the malt, all you're really doing is making a shiatty beer.


This is true, and while I like a hoppy beer:

img.fark.net

I also like

amsterdambeer.com

which is like the antiChrist of the first one.

While there's been some improvement in America on the craft beer scene, I don't even recognize gnat's piss like "Bud Light" as being beer. It's more like failed sake cut with soda water and boredom.
 
2014-04-21 07:58:34 AM

t3knomanser: b0rscht: Which is why I still think the Germans make the best beer in the world.... mostly lagers and oh that wonderful malt....

I'm the sort of person who likes to suck down a fruity Belgian.

Come on, we're not doing "phrasing"?


Nice.

Michael Jackson (no, not that one) was right when he called Belgium "The Disneyland of Beers." I have yet to set foot on Belgian soil but when I do I'm probably going to drink a lot of their beer.

Brewed a Tripel once, and that sonofabiatch took like six weeks to ferment in primary (bloop...... bloop....). Poor yeasties were pretty worn out in the end.
 
2014-04-21 08:00:04 AM

Valiente: , I don't even recognize gnat's piss like "Bud Light" as being beer.


For years, I didn't think I  liked beer and stuck to drinking liquor, because at least liquor tasted like something other than sadness. Then I discovered the breadth of beer varieties.
 
2014-04-21 08:05:04 AM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x291]

Wow. I would have pissed in the bottles for a lot less.


I enjoyed Michelob Ultra when I drank it on a cruise last year. In the UK I can't find it *anywhere*, not even on import.
 
2014-04-21 08:05:17 AM
Wow...  I literally avoid every single beer listed here.  Every single one of them suck... (except all others of course)

cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2014-04-21 08:05:22 AM
meh.  gimme a homebrew every time.
 
2014-04-21 08:07:51 AM

Brew78: Not that I drink much beer these days. Stupid celiac :-(


Have you tried any of the sorghum-based beers out there?  They're not bad.  I tried one out of curiosity and it had a really smooth taste to it.
 
2014-04-21 08:08:38 AM
I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.
 
2014-04-21 08:09:39 AM
Oh yay. Beer snob thread.

unchainedrestaurants.files.wordpress.com

Schaefer
is the
one beer to have
when you're having more than one!
 
2014-04-21 08:09:57 AM
You know what I drink? Macrobrews.

You know why? Because I like them.
 
2014-04-21 08:12:02 AM

t3knomanser: b0rscht: Which is why I still think the Germans make the best beer in the world.... mostly lagers and oh that wonderful malt....

I'm the sort of person who likes to suck down a fruity Belgian.

Come on, we're not doing "phrasing"?

i1.ytimg.com
Likes the cut of your jib
 
2014-04-21 08:13:24 AM
scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net

Hoppy Easter!
 
2014-04-21 08:14:00 AM

theknuckler_33: Oh yay. Beer snob thread.

[unchainedrestaurants.files.wordpress.com image 161x274]

Schaefer
is the
one beer to have
when you're having more than one!


i1.ytimg.com

/quarter taps of this lovely fluid back in college
 
2014-04-21 08:17:32 AM
I think the saddest statement is Corona Extra is the top selling import.  How many Jimmy Buffet fans are there?


I only drink

obscurebeeryouvenevertried.jpg

But this is a great infographic:

cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2014-04-21 08:17:38 AM
Oh this thread. Fortunately, there's a Standard Operating Procedure. Quick, everybody post gifs of their favorite beer, and remind our troll subby that there are lots of good beers in the US.
 
2014-04-21 08:17:57 AM

ladyfortuna: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

*eyes you*


I always loves me a good IPA, but there's so many now, that they're all starting to just blur together.

I've been using Untappd and thanks to me being a badge whore, I've had incentive to search out some other styles. I've been into farmhouse ales lately what are great for when it eventually warms up outside.
 
2014-04-21 08:18:40 AM

H31N0US: Oh this thread. Fortunately, there's a Standard Operating Procedure. Quick, everybody post gifs of their favorite beer, and remind our troll subby that there are lots of good beers in the US.


Yea, I am tired of it too.  I am going too the geek tab to look for an Apple bashing thread.
 
2014-04-21 08:19:12 AM
I like beer

/I love lamp
 
2014-04-21 08:19:22 AM
Best.beer.evah

img.fark.net

And if you are watching your weight

www.ghosttraveller.com
 
2014-04-21 08:19:47 AM
Horseshiat.  I know there are two distinct problems:

1.  Bros buying Bud Light
2.  HOPS HOPS HOPS OMG BEST IPA EVER (and I really like IPA, but let's focus on how it tastes first before adding "hopsmageddon")

Neither of those issues have anything to do with my enjoyment of beer, and the reality is that if I were to put together a list of my 25 favorite beers, probably 20 of them would be American.

The best beer in the world comes from America.  Just because the worst beer in the world ALSO comes from America, and lots of Americans inexplicably PAY to drink that shiat, doesn't mean that American beer is in a "sorry" state.

In sum, fark off.
 
2014-04-21 08:20:05 AM

Robo Beat: I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.


Maybe its just me, but on a hot summers day I just sweat and sweat, and I cant even look at a beer or soda...  Give me water, gatorade, and more water...  Once I recover I can start entertaining thoughts of beer...
 
2014-04-21 08:23:32 AM

Jim_Callahan:  kinda makes me doubt that this guy has the perspective required to be allowed to have an opinion on anything.


Oh, he's allowed to have an opinion... That doesn't mean you have to respect it.
 
2014-04-21 08:24:07 AM
Look, I don't care if the inferior product is more widely available, cheaper, and more popular: as long as I can have what I prefer, I'm happy. I'm even happy to pay a little more for...

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was the iOS vs. Android thread.
 
Skr
2014-04-21 08:24:33 AM
Only the Bud ICE Penguin can save the sagging American Beer Industry.


/doobie doobie doo
 
2014-04-21 08:27:59 AM
Founders Kentucky Breakfast stout.
 
2014-04-21 08:28:16 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Horseshiat.  I know there are two distinct problems:

1.  Bros buying Bud Light
2.  HOPS HOPS HOPS OMG BEST IPA EVER (and I really like IPA, but let's focus on how it tastes first before adding "hopsmageddon")

Neither of those issues have anything to do with my enjoyment of beer, and the reality is that if I were to put together a list of my 25 favorite beers, probably 20 of them would be American.

The best beer in the world comes from America.  Just because the worst beer in the world ALSO comes from America, and lots of Americans inexplicably PAY to drink that shiat, doesn't mean that American beer is in a "sorry" state.

In sum, fark off.


Let's hear some of those favorite beers, brah.
 
2014-04-21 08:28:52 AM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I was told it puts hair on your balls. My, how grandma had a way with words.


This is why I only drink Horny Goat IPA.

I'm trying for a full Busch.
 
2014-04-21 08:29:23 AM
ooh beer snob thread?  I'm in.

No problem finding this on the east coast ever...

beerchamber.com

Made right there in Cooperstown, NY.
 
2014-04-21 08:30:10 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


IPA's drive the market, the only reason that the craft brewers make them is because the consumer wants them.
I'll certainly agree with you that there are too many IPA's and not really much difference between them.
 
2014-04-21 08:30:53 AM

bongon247: ooh beer snob thread?  I'm in.

No problem finding this on the east coast ever...

[beerchamber.com image 850x1133]

Made right there in Cooperstown, NY.


Hands-down one of my favorites.  Always available at Wegmans.
 
2014-04-21 08:31:57 AM
Trolliest headline of the year.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-04-21 08:32:14 AM

Mr. Right: By case volume, the mega breweries had a combined, average growth of  0.8%.  Imports had combined growth of 6%.  Craft breweries had growth of 19.4%  What is so sorry about that, subby?


It's bad if you are counting on growth for domestics, but the industry is doing just fine. American domestics are taking a beating, and no longer can count on just having a lock on sales. There is a LOT of choice in the market--with local breweries making dents in their markets, and some breweries making some decent deals for distribution within their local markets, like Smuttynose doing the Northampton Brewery and the Portsmouth Brewery's stuff between Maine and Massachusetts, the fact that Sam Adams is no longer really a "craft beer" but a decent sized brewery making national sales consistently.

Beer is doing fine. There's a lot of room in the market for locals, and that is great for folks who want something different than the cheap to produce pale lager that has dominated the market because of its ease and speed of production to beat others to the market after Prohibition. There's a dazzling set of choices, pretty much where ever you are.
 
2014-04-21 08:33:49 AM

sephjnr: Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x291]

Wow. I would have pissed in the bottles for a lot less.

I enjoyed Michelob Ultra when I drank it on a cruise last year. In the UK I can't find it *anywhere*, not even on import.


When I lived in the UK (2002-2009) there were 2 sources of Ultra
1. The CostCo north of London
2. American bases in Cambridgeshire

/I sound married
 
2014-04-21 08:34:19 AM
cache.boston.com
lushworthy.com
My contribution...
scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-04-21 08:36:06 AM

Cheesehead_Dave: [scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x640]


Hoppy Easter!



Theres really only one correct choice for a beer to put in an easter basket...

hoppeduphype.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-21 08:36:51 AM
US beer probably has the best combo of variety and quality in the world
 
2014-04-21 08:37:06 AM

Maul555: Robo Beat: I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.

Maybe its just me, but on a hot summers day I just sweat and sweat, and I cant even look at a beer or soda...  Give me water, gatorade, and more water...  Once I recover I can start entertaining thoughts of beer...


I found that I usually enjoy Thai beer like Singha in the extreme heat though.


That said, It probably depends on where you live.  Here in the mid-atlantic, our summers are extremely hot and humid so I don't usually even bother stepping outside.
 
2014-04-21 08:41:16 AM

Caffeine Induced Diarrhea: HaywoodJablonski: 9/10 subby. You got a greenlight and started the semi-weekly beer snob thread

I like how snob has come to mean anyone with a preference or anyone who chooses something besides bland macro brews


No, "snob" means you deride other people's tastes and preferences, which we've already seen quite a bit of.
 
2014-04-21 08:42:41 AM
Troegs even over-hops their porter!

You can have your ipas, just leave my dark beer alone!
 
2014-04-21 08:44:58 AM
So many people complain about IPAs being popular. It's not like brewers have stopped making other options though. Don't like hops? Great! There are more options available now than ever. Hoppy stuff is just high profile now.
 
2014-04-21 08:54:32 AM

Cheesehead_Dave: [scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x640]

Hoppy Easter!


I love me some Bells!
 
2014-04-21 08:54:33 AM

voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.


Dude. It's not even that complicated. If you suck at making good beer, you can over-hop it to cover all your sins. IPAs are easy to make. Good lagers? They take time and care. IPAs can be cranked out by people who aren't particularly good at making beer and you won't be able to tell because the only flavor you get is bitter ass.
 
2014-04-21 08:58:06 AM

Erix: So many people complain about IPAs being popular. It's not like brewers have stopped making other options though. Don't like hops? Great! There are more options available now than ever. Hoppy stuff is just high profile now.


There's just a huge amount of choice in the market now. If you're not an fan of super hoppy IPAs, it's fair easy to just get a bottle or draft of something else. In part, it's the market swinging back after so many darks hit "big" with folks. It's a phase, and it's easily avoidable.
 
2014-04-21 09:01:13 AM

Erix: So many people complain about IPAs being popular. It's not like brewers have stopped making other options though. Don't like hops? Great! There are more options available now than ever. Hoppy stuff is just high profile now.


Yeah, but in the craft beer market it seems like IPAs and other overly-hopped beers make up about 50% of what's on the shelves. Not really complaining, but I don't see how IPAs should be anything but a small party of the craft beer market (if people where honest with themselves, at least)
 
2014-04-21 09:04:00 AM
Piss on that nonsense.  The state of american beer has probably never been better.  It's about choice.  You want a Bud, you can always get a bud.  But on the other hand, I live in the stix, and I can get various Hefes on tap, Locally brewed IPAs by the growler, and Red Flemish Beers at my liquor store.  And what I can't find, I can brew.

It's a great time to be an american beer drinker.
 
2014-04-21 09:06:03 AM

hubiestubert: It's a phase, and it's easily avoidable.


It is and it isn't. It sucks when a bar you like hops (ahem) on the bandwagon and devotes all the taps to nothing but hoppy beers, with maybe one stout mixed it. Yeah, you can go someplace else, but it's sad when a bar you like gets kinda crappy.
 
2014-04-21 09:06:19 AM

Frank N Stein: Yeah, but in the craft beer market it seems like IPAs and other overly-hopped beers make up about 50% of what's on the shelves. Not really complaining, but I don't see how IPAs should be anything but a small party of the craft beer market (if people where honest with themselves, at least)


I too am hoping that the IPA "IBU arms race" plays itself out quickly.  I think it's a reaction to generations of Americans drinking nothing but lightweight Pilsners.
 
2014-04-21 09:06:25 AM
Well, I for one, am perfectly content with my beer scene. Miller Lite for mass quantity consumption. Then there is a rotation of the following based on availability:
1. Lake Louie Warped Speed Scotch Ale
2. Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA
(So happy this is being distributed to WI again)
3. New Belgium Brewing Fat Tire
4. Ale Asylum Hopalicious
 
2014-04-21 09:08:06 AM
odd, just saw a movie with an actor actually "drinking" one of these -

onmilwaukee.com

was surprised his noggin didn't collapse into it's self like a shrunken head

wpb.org
 
2014-04-21 09:10:05 AM
Possibly included is random allergies.  My father has to drink foreign beer.  Domestic causes him to sit on the toilet for a few hours.
 
2014-04-21 09:10:09 AM

hubiestubert: It's bad if you are counting on growth for domestics, but the industry is doing just fine.


Yeah, it's probably not the best time to buy Ambev or SABMiller stock.   But the rest of  your post is spot on.  Its a great time to be a beer drinker in the U.S.  Here in West Michigan, we have an embarrassment of riches.  But I don't believe there is a state in the union that doesn't have at least a decent craft brewery somewhere.

Back in my college days, beer was for "drink to get a buzz" types, wine was where the discriminating palettes were.  What passed for good restaurants (not chains and places that had a real chef) would put together fixed-menu dinners with featured wines and you could go there and have a 4 - 7 course meal with a different wine accompanying each course.  Absolutely nothing like that existed in the beer world.  There are still a lot of wine drinkers around and there are very good wines available at modest prices.  But beer has taken over the craft part of adult beverages.  Craft distilleries are making their presence known but beer is still dominating.  There are several restaurants featuring beer dinners all over the Midwest and probably elsewhere but the Midwest is the area with which I am familiar.

Craft food is also having a resurgence and pairing a talented chef with a good Cicerone can lead to a memorable dining experience.
 
2014-04-21 09:12:27 AM
Buddy of mine is the Chef here. Yesterday at dinner he slid me a nice growler, as he usually does.
I have a dozen empties now, that I can take in for refills, next time I go to town.
Here's the What's on Tap menu.

Now, normally, I drink Bud, bottled. But that is a budget thing.
But a free growler of something fine?
you bet I pull a pilsner glass off the shelf to drink that.
 
2014-04-21 09:14:08 AM

Marcintosh: odd, just saw a movie with an actor actually "drinking" one of these -

[onmilwaukee.com image 400x300]

was surprised his noggin didn't collapse into it's self like a shrunken head

[wpb.org image 848x477]


Oh, God.  I remember those.  Just take the l out of the name to describe the gastric effect.  Profound gastric effect.  W-a-a-a-y more effective than X-lax but without that enticing flavor.
 
2014-04-21 09:15:45 AM
Beer. Eh.

www.klwines.com
 
2014-04-21 09:16:46 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".
 
2014-04-21 09:17:12 AM
Used to like IPAs, but the of overhopping has killed it for me. Dry hopping is a quick way to salvage a bad batch of beer while completely masking your grains. When they came out at the start of the craft beer push they were novel but overwhelming hops only works so long. You don't see many lagers because they tend to give less notable flavor after the hassle of lagering.
 
2014-04-21 09:19:43 AM
Living in relatively li'l old Indianapolis, there're now a ridiculous number of local breweries. Off the top of my head: Sun King, Fountain Square, Upland, Flat12, Outliers, Bier, Black Acre, Union (does only casked stuff, kinda niche), Brugge, Broad Ripple BrewPub, Thr3e Wisemen, Cutters, Daredevil, IN City, Oaken Barrel, Tow Yard, Triton.

It is NUTS. And if I expand my view to all of IN and the larger region we start getting to epic successes like Three Floyds, Founders & Bell's. Why would I ever, ever buy some mega-beer when incredible product in near infinite variety is all over the place? I just keep empty growlers in the car & check my phone to see who's got what on tap today.
 
2014-04-21 09:19:48 AM

FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".


Are you saying Budweiser is hoppy and bitter?
 
2014-04-21 09:20:05 AM

deanis: Trolliest headline of the year.

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 284x177]


Subby must live under a bridge, it's that trolly.
 
2014-04-21 09:20:27 AM
At least some of the big brands are putting a little booze in the bottle finally.. bud light platinum is 6%, bud select is 6%, and my new favorite Miller Futune isn't lite, and it's 6.9%. I don't drink beer to get skinny, you bastards! Put some damn alcohol in it!  Also, IPAs suck unless you're already drunk. Take one sober sip of some hoppy shenanigans, and taste it for 30 minutes.. Hhhhhork!
 
2014-04-21 09:21:57 AM
I'm surprised Brooklyn Brewery isn't on the list of "Top Craft Beers" -- it seems to be served at almost every bar I go to, and available at every grocery store and supermarket.  That might just be the New York market, but I remember talking with someone who works for Brooklyn Brewery who told me they were already exporting to a dozen other countries or so, and that was probably two years ago.
 
2014-04-21 09:22:37 AM
The problem with American beer is the drinkers of it. American beer isn't really beer anymore. It doesn't have to be, since Americans, despite how much of it they drink, don't really like it. Budweiser's primary grain is now corn and it has a lot of sugar and artificial ingredients. Manufacturers don't have to mass-produce a quality product, so they don't. It is interesting to note that the top imports aren't much better than their American competition. The FA doesn't mention that many "imported" beers are no longer imported, but brewed right here in the US by mostly Ambev breweries and the stuff made here isn't anything like the originals.
 
2014-04-21 09:22:38 AM
Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix
 
2014-04-21 09:24:04 AM
www.corkjoy.com

New Albion Ale, which I'm pissed that I can't find anymore... it's almost as if Jim Koch expects me to brew my own New Albion clone!

and this:

p.twimg.com
Devil's Backbone Azrael, which is awesome.

/I like them hoppy beers, too. But these are different.
 
2014-04-21 09:25:02 AM
I would also like to point out that I have no problem drinking the shiatty domestics either. In fact, they're quite refreshing on hot days at the beach or at a ball game. So I'm no beer snob
 
2014-04-21 09:26:16 AM
I like me a good IPA. And I don't blame brewers for making them. They're satisfying a big demand for hoppy beers. There's nothing wrong with loving good bitters, and honestly any brewer who wants to be successful would be remiss if there weren't at least one beer on the menu that felt like drinking a pine tree.

That said, diversity is the key. Lots of people don't like hops, tastes always change, and any brewer should be ready with the recipes and skills to rebalance their line & respond to changes in demand.
 
2014-04-21 09:27:29 AM

JackieRabbit: The problem with American beer is the drinkers of it. American beer isn't really beer anymore. It doesn't have to be, since Americans, despite how much of it they drink, don't really like it. Budweiser's primary grain is now corn and it has a lot of sugar and artificial ingredients. Manufacturers don't have to mass-produce a quality product, so they don't. It is interesting to note that the top imports aren't much better than their American competition. The FA doesn't mention that many "imported" beers are no longer imported, but brewed right here in the US by mostly Ambev breweries and the stuff made here isn't anything like the originals.


You read that stupid "8 beers you should never drink again" didn't you?  There's actually a good reason US beers have corn and other grains, and adding sugars or "artificial ingredients" is extremely common, even in the most crafty beers.

There's a time and place for all beers, even mass produced domestics.
 
2014-04-21 09:29:45 AM

Skr: Only the Bud ICE Penguin can save the sagging American Beer Industry.


/doobie doobie doo


We drank the shiat out of that in college 5.5% ABV (I believe) and it tasted pretty decent for shiatty beer.

/doobie doobie dooooo
 
2014-04-21 09:30:35 AM

thehobbes: Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix


Oh go straight to hell, troll boy. A bourbon barrel aging on the right beer can be completely incredible.
 
2014-04-21 09:36:29 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

Consumable after thirty years in a hot VW? That's my kind of beer!
 
2014-04-21 09:36:50 AM

natebpunkd: Well, I for one, am perfectly content with my beer scene. Miller Lite for mass quantity consumption. Then there is a rotation of the following based on availability:
1. Lake Louie Warped Speed Scotch Ale
2. Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA
(So happy this is being distributed to WI again)
3. New Belgium Brewing Fat Tire
4. Ale Asylum Hopalicious


You and I could probably drink together. Miller Lite is my give-a-shiat beer. My top 5 in some sort of order:

1. Rogue Dead Guy
2. St. Arnold Amber
3. Dale's Pale Ale
4. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
5. Tim Taylor's Landlord (UK only)
 
2014-04-21 09:37:24 AM

Maul555: Robo Beat: I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.

Maybe its just me, but on a hot summers day I just sweat and sweat, and I cant even look at a beer or soda...  Give me water, gatorade, and more water...  Once I recover I can start entertaining thoughts of beer...


That's why I enjoy Coors light when I am outside and it's 100+ degrees.
 
2014-04-21 09:40:19 AM

lilbordr: cache.boston.com


You tard, you're supposed to drink Heady Topper from the can. It says so on the lip of the can!
 
2014-04-21 09:40:47 AM

FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".



Who is this "we" you speak of. Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
 
2014-04-21 09:46:27 AM

voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.


There was a hop shortage early on in the explosion of American Craft Breweries.  With the dawn of the culture of craft beer consumers in the 90s to 00s demanding variety and getting loads of lagers, the market was primed and ready for hop-laden IPA's when hops became more available again in (I think) 2008-2009.

Currently, there's a move away from fresh, heavily hopped beers and over towards aged belgians and stouts.

The most annoying trend right now is the farking hot pepper beers.  Everyone with a brew-restaurant has to have one on tap.  Taking up valuable real estate that could be holding a chocolate stout or a kolsch this time of year.
 
2014-04-21 09:46:32 AM

t3knomanser: hubiestubert: It's a phase, and it's easily avoidable.

It is and it isn't. It sucks when a bar you like hops (ahem) on the bandwagon and devotes all the taps to nothing but hoppy beers, with maybe one stout mixed it. Yeah, you can go someplace else, but it's sad when a bar you like gets kinda crappy.


That's why God gave us bourbon...
 
2014-04-21 09:48:07 AM
I want to get drunk, I want to get drunk cheap, and I want to get drunk without gaining too much weight.

Hello, Natural Light.
 
2014-04-21 09:48:21 AM

StrikitRich: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Was at a large liquor store on Saturday and they had a bunch of sixers marked down 50%.  When I looked to see what they were they were all IPAs and other super hopped beers that nobody was buying.


I've been seeing a lot of that, too. I really like big, stupidly-overhopped IPAs, but they're something I drink at the bar.  I never really want to drink more than one at a time, so I rarely buy them in six packs.

That said, if I see a discounted six pack of Hopslam, I'm all over it.
 
2014-04-21 09:48:27 AM

hubiestubert: Erix: So many people complain about IPAs being popular. It's not like brewers have stopped making other options though. Don't like hops? Great! There are more options available now than ever. Hoppy stuff is just high profile now.

There's just a huge amount of choice in the market now. If you're not an fan of super hoppy IPAs, it's fair easy to just get a bottle or draft of something else. In part, it's the market swinging back after so many darks hit "big" with folks. It's a phase, and it's easily avoidable.


Yeah, this.
 
2014-04-21 09:50:34 AM

GregInIndy: thehobbes: Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix

Oh go straight to hell, troll boy. A bourbon barrel aging on the right beer can be completely incredible.


See here, this I like.  People fighting over the merits of barrel aging beer.  Call me a hopeless optimist if you will, but this is a good sign.

I never thought I'd live to see the day that hoppy beers were derided by discerning drinkers.  I love hoppy beers but I don't care, criticize away.

All this says to me is the craft movement is still moving forward, growing like crazy, and I have better choice and easier access to great beers.  We're moving to a place where we can claim it as part of our culture again and not be embarrassed about it.

Cheers.
 
2014-04-21 09:53:58 AM
Glad to know I'm not the only one sick of IPAs.

Had this earlier last week:

cdn.beeradvocate.com

It was like drinking carbonated grapefruit juice. Bleh.

However, I later had this, and it was awesome:

ecbiz122.inmotionhosting.com

Also, fark the domestic mega-brewers. They've had far too much power in what our choices are for too long and definitely need to be taken down a few notches.
 
2014-04-21 09:54:43 AM
www.beerandbrewer.com
 
2014-04-21 09:56:28 AM
Don't like it?
Don't drink it.
Yeungling
Mmmmm...
 
2014-04-21 09:59:39 AM
Subby Fail++
& ++ * ++
I could replace this article/headline with any country

"The sorry state of English beer."  "Carling, Fosters, Stella blah blah..."
"The sorry state of Dutch beer."  "Heineken blah blah puke..."
 
zez
2014-04-21 10:00:18 AM
Here is what I think of Laugunitas

bowscollective.com
 
2014-04-21 10:00:29 AM
Why is Sam Adams still considered a "craft" beer?

and btw, Schlitz isn't a bad beer for an American Lager. Better than most of the top of that list for domestic or import.
 
2014-04-21 10:12:53 AM

GregInIndy: Living in relatively li'l old Indianapolis, there're now a ridiculous number of local breweries. Off the top of my head: Sun King, Fountain Square, Upland, Flat12, Outliers, Bier, Black Acre, Union (does only casked stuff, kinda niche), Brugge, Broad Ripple BrewPub, Thr3e Wisemen, Cutters, Daredevil, IN City, Oaken Barrel, Tow Yard, Triton.

It is NUTS. And if I expand my view to all of IN and the larger region we start getting to epic successes like Three Floyds, Founders & Bell's. Why would I ever, ever buy some mega-beer when incredible product in near infinite variety is all over the place? I just keep empty growlers in the car & check my phone to see who's got what on tap today.


*indy high five

I love me some sun kind and oaken barrel.
 
2014-04-21 10:14:10 AM
So, based on nothing but my opinion and initial thoughts on the matter (I have no hard evidence) here's what I think is happening in the USA beer market:

When examining sales on a national level, Bud Miller Coors still have the largest national sales. That's because they distribute everywhere in the entire USA. Every store, every region, every little backwoods convenience store.

Meanwhile, every major metropolitan district, city and even some backwoods places, have their own micro breweries. These craft breweries do not distribute, for the most part, anywhere beyond their immediate geographic area. By that I mean a 20 mile radius.  In Boston I can think of the following beers that are HUGELY popular with craft brew fanatics but cannot be found elsewhere (other Boston area Farkers please chime in):

Jack's Abbey
Mystic
Nightshift
Slumbrew
Clown Shoes
Pretty Things
High and Mighty
Cody Brewing

I've probably forgotten so many. Those beers sell a lot in this area, but their sales aren't included in the assessments people make about craft beer Vs. BMC.  Hardcore beer fanatics don't drink Sam Adams anymore.  I'm not making any judgement about their products, it's just a fact.

So what you have are similar regional micro beer climates in every major metropolitan area where no-name breweries are controlling the bulk of the craft beer market. And this doesn't even include brew pubs that make their own stuff locally and don't distribute at all to stores.

So the beer market in the USA is better than ever. It's just changing dramatically. A very good living can be made brewing good beer just for the local area rather than trying to expand out to national markets.
 
2014-04-21 10:15:10 AM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


Hey guys. I've collected almost enough hops for a six pack of our newest, farking, IPA batch!!

roguefarmsblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-21 10:18:59 AM

GregInIndy: thehobbes: Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix

Oh go straight to hell, troll boy. A bourbon barrel aging on the right beer can be completely incredible.


Its too expensive to try to use a whiskey barrel to "fix" a bad beer. What usually happens is you have some one who has no idea what they are doing poorly matching the style they wish to age, with the type of barrel they have.
Also, don't let anyone tell you that aging on wood is a long held tradition of the brewmasters art and such claptrap.

beer was stored and shipped in wooden barrels because thats what you had back before the invention of kegs. they were not left overs from the distilling industry, they were purpose made and lined with pitch to keep them from leaking and the wood from contaminating the product inside.

though, good barrel aged beer is a wonderful thing, we just got 20 barrels of just dropped VA Gentlemen that we are going to mostly be putting our flagship Brown ale on.
 
2014-04-21 10:20:47 AM

t3knomanser: Valiente: , I don't even recognize gnat's piss like "Bud Light" as being beer.

For years, I didn't think I  liked beer and stuck to drinking liquor, because at least liquor tasted like something other than sadness. Then I discovered the breadth of beer varieties.


Heh. "Tastes like sadness!" is quite the slogan. I drank liquor in my teens until I bicycled through Britain and asked "what's CAMRA?". Rocked my little world, it did.
 
2014-04-21 10:24:17 AM

CruJones: JackieRabbit: The problem with American beer is the drinkers of it. American beer isn't really beer anymore. It doesn't have to be, since Americans, despite how much of it they drink, don't really like it. Budweiser's primary grain is now corn and it has a lot of sugar and artificial ingredients. Manufacturers don't have to mass-produce a quality product, so they don't. It is interesting to note that the top imports aren't much better than their American competition. The FA doesn't mention that many "imported" beers are no longer imported, but brewed right here in the US by mostly Ambev breweries and the stuff made here isn't anything like the originals.

You read that stupid "8 beers you should never drink again" didn't you?  There's actually a good reason US beers have corn and other grains, and adding sugars or "artificial ingredients" is extremely common, even in the most crafty beers.

There's a time and place for all beers, even mass produced domestics.


Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.
 
2014-04-21 10:27:06 AM
i1.ytimg.com

Put on your 'Hops Face'
 
2014-04-21 10:28:33 AM
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

"I know what you're thinking, snob. You're thinking "did he drink all six beers or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is Pabst Blue Ribbon, the most popular beer in the world, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel thirsty?" Well, do ya, snob? "
 
2014-04-21 10:32:11 AM

WinoRhino: So, based on nothing but my opinion and initial thoughts on the matter (I have no hard evidence) here's what I think is happening in the USA beer market:

When examining sales on a national level, Bud Miller Coors still have the largest national sales. That's because they distribute everywhere in the entire USA. Every store, every region, every little backwoods convenience store.

Meanwhile, every major metropolitan district, city and even some backwoods places, have their own micro breweries. These craft breweries do not distribute, for the most part, anywhere beyond their immediate geographic area. By that I mean a 20 mile radius.  In Boston I can think of the following beers that are HUGELY popular with craft brew fanatics but cannot be found elsewhere (other Boston area Farkers please chime in):

Jack's Abbey
Mystic
Nightshift
Slumbrew
Clown Shoes
Pretty Things
High and Mighty
Cody Brewing

I've probably forgotten so many. Those beers sell a lot in this area, but their sales aren't included in the assessments people make about craft beer Vs. BMC.  Hardcore beer fanatics don't drink Sam Adams anymore.  I'm not making any judgement about their products, it's just a fact.

So what you have are similar regional micro beer climates in every major metropolitan area where no-name breweries are controlling the bulk of the craft beer market. And this doesn't even include brew pubs that make their own stuff locally and don't distribute at all to stores.

So the beer market in the USA is better than ever. It's just changing dramatically. A very good living can be made brewing good beer just for the local area rather than trying to expand out to national markets.


You can get Clown Shoes in a lot of places. Houston and Atlanta for sure. I'm sure elsewhere.
 
2014-04-21 10:34:54 AM
As for all the posts for and against IPAs...

There are a lot of crappy over-hopped beers out there that are a complete waste of money because they are truly badly brewed beers.  There are a lot of terrific IPAs out there that are really excellent beers with terrific structure and great flavor.

To me, the difference is brewers who understand that having a solid malt backbone is essential, and that hops can be added for flavor as well as aroma and bitterness. A 120 IBU beer that is thin with no malt character is going to taste like crap. Maybe some people like hop soup, who knows? But there are rules of thumb about how many IBU you should have in a beer based on the original gravity of your brew. Pay attention to that ratio and the beer will probably turn out pretty good.

I just made an IPA that was 8.3% ABV and 100 IBU. I have never brewed anything with that much bitterness before because I'm generally not a fan of it, but I wanted to show some people how it could be done properly. The majority of my hop additions came with 20 or less minutes left in the boil. Yes it was bitter, but it was teeming with flavors like grapefruit, orange, mango and amazing floral notes. I used a half pound of honey malt and a little bit of munich malt to sweeten it up a bit and give it good malt character. A friend who rants against IPAs loved it.


If you don't like bitter beers, great, everyone gets that. Don't buy them. But you are also correct to say a lot of them are horrible. If you like a little hop flavor but don't want to get overwhelmed, buy IPAs based on their IBU and keep it on the lower side of things. Maybe target beers with specific hops that have flavors you like (Citra, Centenial, Amarillo, and Cascade all being fruity instead of piney, for example).
 
2014-04-21 10:36:23 AM

voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.


You can cover most off-flavors or batch-to-batch consistency issues by dry hopping.
 
2014-04-21 10:36:47 AM

Robo Beat: I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.


True dat.

*offers JAGUART a kitty high five*
 
2014-04-21 10:37:44 AM

HaywoodJablonski: You can get Clown Shoes in a lot of places. Houston and Atlanta for sure. I'm sure elsewhere.


Yeah, actually I meant to take that one off the list. I just got back from Maui and I saw it in a corner store. It blew my mind. Aside from the usual macro brews and local stuff, it was the only other beer in the place. From Ipswich, MA? Weird. It was $12 for a 22oz.
 
2014-04-21 10:41:10 AM

WinoRhino: HaywoodJablonski: You can get Clown Shoes in a lot of places. Houston and Atlanta for sure. I'm sure elsewhere.

Yeah, actually I meant to take that one off the list. I just got back from Maui and I saw it in a corner store. It blew my mind. Aside from the usual macro brews and local stuff, it was the only other beer in the place. From Ipswich, MA? Weird. It was $12 for a 22oz.


Heh. I had a similar experience living in England. It's odd which American beers they decide to import. You can't find Bud Light, Miller Lite or any of the other major beers there. However, I ran into a few pubs that have Coors Light draught available. Really? Why?!
 
2014-04-21 10:45:59 AM

Robo Beat: Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.


For Easter yesterday I went to my parents' house and brought a few of my recent homebrews for my dad and brother. My bro brought me a bottle of KBS and  some other aged stout. I was trying to figure out what to have when I spotted the sixer of Corona Light in the garage fridge. I was going to be on grill duty, so I grabbed one of those instead of the others.
 
2014-04-21 10:46:50 AM

HaywoodJablonski: WinoRhino: HaywoodJablonski: You can get Clown Shoes in a lot of places. Houston and Atlanta for sure. I'm sure elsewhere.

Yeah, actually I meant to take that one off the list. I just got back from Maui and I saw it in a corner store. It blew my mind. Aside from the usual macro brews and local stuff, it was the only other beer in the place. From Ipswich, MA? Weird. It was $12 for a 22oz.

Heh. I had a similar experience living in England. It's odd which American beers they decide to import. You can't find Bud Light, Miller Lite or any of the other major beers there. However, I ran into a few pubs that have Coors Light draught available. Really? Why?!


Palate cleanser between good bitters?
 
2014-04-21 10:48:40 AM
I think this Hop Death fad will fade soon enough.

Remember a while back the fad was to create beers that were 10%+ alcohol with no regards to flavor or balance?  Eventually the fad diminished and the bad ones were mostly weeded out and we were left with the handful that weren't so putrid.

I am seeing more and more craft breweries putting put Belgian styles and imperials.  I just grabbed a American made sour last night even.
 
2014-04-21 10:50:27 AM
An IPA that tastes like citrus is a positive thing. Mostly they just taste bitter.
 
2014-04-21 10:52:23 AM

Cyno01: Cheesehead_Dave: [scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x640]


Hoppy Easter!


Theres really only one correct choice for a beer to put in an easter basket...

[hoppeduphype.files.wordpress.com image 850x1397]


I would disagree:   http://www.duclaw.com/beer/sweet-baby-jesus/
 
2014-04-21 10:56:35 AM
brewpublic.com
 
2014-04-21 11:00:17 AM

Beautiful_Geek: An IPA that tastes like citrus is a positive thing. Mostly they just taste bitter.


In Hawaii last week I had Big Island Brewhaus' "Overboard IPA". I love fruit-forward hops a lot more than the pine ones and this one was all fruit. But what I thought was terrific about this one and worth mentioning was that it was a paltry (by comparison) 50 IBU. That's it. But the hop flavor and nose was outstanding. It had to have been all really late additions. Definitely need more IPAs like this one.
 
2014-04-21 11:01:40 AM
also good on a hot day

www.totalwine.com
 
2014-04-21 11:06:13 AM

FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".


Wat?  The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers.  No one is making "hop-filled lagers".  Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale
 
2014-04-21 11:07:16 AM

WinoRhino: Beautiful_Geek: An IPA that tastes like citrus is a positive thing. Mostly they just taste bitter.

In Hawaii last week I had Big Island Brewhaus' "Overboard IPA". I love fruit-forward hops a lot more than the pine ones and this one was all fruit. But what I thought was terrific about this one and worth mentioning was that it was a paltry (by comparison) 50 IBU. That's it. But the hop flavor and nose was outstanding. It had to have been all really late additions. Definitely need more IPAs like this one.


That actually sounds appealing. Probably not something you can get on the East Coast.
 
2014-04-21 11:09:03 AM
www.wineandcheeseplace.com
 
2014-04-21 11:11:14 AM
Any beer-loving Farkers passing through DC should check out this place:  http://ironhorsedc.com/

Decent selection of craft brews on tap, and the bartender is probably the nicest bartender I've ever run into.
 
2014-04-21 11:11:21 AM
Bells Oberon
 
2014-04-21 11:11:34 AM

CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat?  The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers.  No one is making "hop-filled lagers".  Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale


Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

beerpulse.com
 
2014-04-21 11:11:40 AM
I cant enjoy good beer at home because I would get a 6 pak have 2 then the rest would disappear since the roomate is an drunk.
 
2014-04-21 11:11:58 AM
Why is it sad?  There are still plenty of options if you want cheap light beer, but now there are also tons of options if you want beer that tastes good.  I would have to agree that a lot of bars seem to only have IPAs on tap and it's hard to get anything else except bottles or cans.  However, I never have trouble finding all kinds of different varieties to try, but I'm spoiled because we have Total Wine.
 
2014-04-21 11:19:21 AM
Subby's article is misinformed. The local and micro markets are growing, but there isn't a lot of growth room in a mostly stagnant market that is being intruded on by wine and harder liquor.

Also, let's hear it for Yuengling on the East coast! Awesome, drinkable, and reasonably priced. They also make great seasonals.
 
2014-04-21 11:21:32 AM

CruJones: also good on a hot day

[www.totalwine.com image 250x350]


Tried that a few weeks back...apart from it not being what I thought it was going to be, I prefer a lemon shandy opposed to a grapefruit one.
 
2014-04-21 11:26:00 AM
beerpulse.com
 
2014-04-21 11:28:30 AM
fark hops.

fark hoppy beer.

What are you guys, farking rabbits with all the hops you put into beer?
 
2014-04-21 11:31:40 AM

CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.


You mean...like this?

www.thebeerspot.com
 
2014-04-21 11:38:33 AM

GregInIndy: thehobbes: Also, stop doing secondaries in whiskey barrels. If I wanted whiskey I'd order it. Rye on rye is just masking the flavor of your poor grain mix

Oh go straight to hell, troll boy. A bourbon barrel aging on the right beer can be completely incredible.


Cerebral Knievel: Its too expensive to try to use a whiskey barrel to "fix" a bad beer. What usually happens is you have some one who has no idea what they are doing poorly matching the style they wish to age, with the type of barrel they have.
Also, don't let anyone tell you that aging on wood is a long held tradition of the brewmasters art and such claptrap.

beer was stored and shipped in wooden barrels because thats what you had back before the invention of kegs. they were not left overs from the distilling industry, they were purpose made and lined with pitch to keep them from leaking and the wood from contaminating the product inside.


CK- you I like. Some local hipsters are selling their swill at $6 a 12 oz bottle for craft beer aged in multiple liquor barrels. They've done gin, whiskey, and spiced rum barrels. All you can taste is the liquor. Other rye on rye combinations tend to fail at the blending of flavors and assume any ale will suffice. 

I haven't found a bourbon aged beer I have liked yet. The industry tends to be making a whiskey-flavored high alcohol content beer just for the sake of doing it.

Came to realization the other day, had a flight sampler of IPAs, including ones I would purchase regularly. Couldn't tell which was which anymore. Flavors so simple, so overly hopped. It was depressing.

I imagine the next fad will be overly complex additive flavors. Already see it appearing at craft beer events. Vanilla/Cherry/Orange/Coconut Oak aged ales. That or a good sour like Great Divide's Sour Puss.
 
2014-04-21 11:43:25 AM

awfulperson: I ONLY DRINK FLANNEL BROS. HOPPIN' HOPSCOTCH OLD TIMEY BICYCLE LEANIN' 'GAINST A TREE DUBBEL CREAM TRAPPIST BELGIAN WAFFEL STOUT, SERVED IN AN OLD BOOT.


Well, alrighty then!
 
2014-04-21 11:46:40 AM

cr7pilot: CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat?  The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers.  No one is making "hop-filled lagers".  Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

[beerpulse.com image 575x402]


WHY?
 
2014-04-21 11:49:21 AM

The_Time_Master: fark hops.

fark hoppy beer.

What are you guys, farking rabbits with all the hops you put into beer?


Damn straight.  Beer should only contain corn, rice, yeast and FD&C Yellow #7, amirite?
 
2014-04-21 11:49:55 AM

CheekyMonkey: cr7pilot: CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat?  The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers.  No one is making "hop-filled lagers".  Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

[beerpulse.com image 575x402]

WHY?


CheekyMonkey: cr7pilot: CheekyMonkey: FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".

Wat?  The American beer palette is trained for almost-hop-free corn-and-rice-filled light lagers.  No one is making "hop-filled lagers".  Unless you are so confused that you think that IPAs are lagers...

\India Pale Ale

Actually, India Pale Lagers are a thing and people are making them, especially homebrewers.

[beerpulse.com image 575x402]

WHY?


I didn't say I condone it, I'm just saying it's happening. If I had to guess, I'd say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think, a whole new market of hops hipsters who don't really like ales, but want that "smooth" lager experience...with 65 IBUS.

Sadly, if someone doesn't know what they're doing with the hops, the harshness takes away a lot of that "smoothness" one would expect from a lager beer.
 
2014-04-21 11:53:18 AM

bongon247: ooh beer snob thread?  I'm in.

No problem finding this on the east coast ever...

[beerchamber.com image 850x1133]

Made right there in Cooperstown, NY.


Ommegang is great stuff, although hard to find in Western Pennsylvania.

But this is even better...

i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-21 11:54:53 AM

CheekyMonkey: Any beer-loving Farkers passing through DC should check out this place:  http://ironhorsedc.com/

Decent selection of craft brews on tap, and the bartender is probably the nicest bartender I've ever run into.


I lol'd when the first beer on their tap list is

$5 Busch Light 4.1% abv. St. Louis, Mo

But seriously, it's a good bar. Went there a bunch when I worked in DC.
 
2014-04-21 11:59:08 AM
Why are people whining so much about IPA's? There are plenty of options, if you don't like them then don't drink them.

Or was it just a way to show people what a beer hipster you are? Carry on then sirs
 
2014-04-21 12:08:04 PM

WinoRhino: As for all the posts for and against IPAs...

There are a lot of crappy over-hopped beers out there that are a complete waste of money because they are truly badly brewed beers.  There are a lot of terrific IPAs out there that are really excellent beers with terrific structure and great flavor.

To me, the difference is brewers who understand that having a solid malt backbone is essential, and that hops can be added for flavor as well as aroma and bitterness. A 120 IBU beer that is thin with no malt character is going to taste like crap. Maybe some people like hop soup, who knows? But there are rules of thumb about how many IBU you should have in a beer based on the original gravity of your brew. Pay attention to that ratio and the beer will probably turn out pretty good.

I just made an IPA that was 8.3% ABV and 100 IBU. I have never brewed anything with that much bitterness before because I'm generally not a fan of it, but I wanted to show some people how it could be done properly. The majority of my hop additions came with 20 or less minutes left in the boil. Yes it was bitter, but it was teeming with flavors like grapefruit, orange, mango and amazing floral notes. I used a half pound of honey malt and a little bit of munich malt to sweeten it up a bit and give it good malt character. A friend who rants against IPAs loved it.

If you don't like bitter beers, great, everyone gets that. Don't buy them. But you are also correct to say a lot of them are horrible. If you like a little hop flavor but don't want to get overwhelmed, buy IPAs based on their IBU and keep it on the lower side of things. Maybe target beers with specific hops that have flavors you like (Citra, Centenial, Amarillo, and Cascade all being fruity instead of piney, for example).


Well said.  I agree, I enjoy an IPA with some attempt at Balance. about my limit is 60-70 IBU, beyond that I might as well just drink Hop Tea
 
2014-04-21 12:10:47 PM

fireclown: Piss on that nonsense.  The state of american beer has probably never been better.  It's about choice.  You want a Bud, you can always get a bud.  But on the other hand, I live in the stix, and I can get various Hefes on tap, Locally brewed IPAs by the growler, and Red Flemish Beers at my liquor store.  And what I can't find, I can brew.

It's a great time to be an american beer drinker.


Agreed.

I live in St. Louis. When I started drinking the only options were Anheuser-Busch beers. There was like one microbrewery in town that had just opened. I'd say 95% of what was available in bars and grocery stores were A-B product with a slight sliver for Miller Lite and Coors. Now 20 years later there are a myriad of options available everywhere and it seems like a new microbrewery opens every few months.

It's not even shocking to walk into a bar and see every tap be local/regional microbrews or other craft beers.

About the only thing we're missing here is Yuengling.
 
2014-04-21 12:12:25 PM
I'm lucky enough to live in an area that has seen the opening of several "large" (relatively speaking) craft breweries with taprooms, so I'm getting a kick out of the sorry state of piss-water.
 
2014-04-21 12:12:36 PM

CruJones: also good on a hot day


Just when I think I've had every Shiner out there...  I haven't tried or even seen that one before.
 
2014-04-21 12:13:10 PM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


This.  Friend's facebook photo yesterday showing a cooler of beer had multiple brands, but all IPAs.  I wonder if he knows there are other beers out there.
 
2014-04-21 12:14:08 PM

Mirrorz: CruJones: also good on a hot day

Just when I think I've had every Shiner out there...  I haven't tried or even seen that one before.


It's only out in spring and summer I believe, just came out last week for this season.  Shiner makes some darn good beers, with the exception of that bbq flavored one and I'm not a huge fan of their hefe.
 
2014-04-21 12:16:50 PM

trevzie: Why are people whining so much about IPA's? There are plenty of options, if you don't like them then don't drink them.

Or was it just a way to show people what a beer hipster you are? Carry on then sirs


Hipsters are pro-IPA
 
2014-04-21 12:22:34 PM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


Much like CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL for people who don't really know how to internet, IPA's are pretty much the entire playbook for people that can't really make beer.  There's a place in the market for them, but it's real easy to burn out when 3 out of every 4 craft beers out there tastes like a liquified pine tree.
 
2014-04-21 12:23:52 PM
icons.iconarchive.com
 
2014-04-21 12:23:53 PM

awfulperson: I ONLY DRINK FLANNEL BROS. HOPPIN' HOPSCOTCH OLD TIMEY BICYCLE LEANIN' 'GAINST A TREE DUBBEL CREAM TRAPPIST BELGIAN WAFFEL STOUT, SERVED IN AN OLD BOOT.


Funniest thing is, take away the old boot part and that actually sounds pretty good!
 
2014-04-21 12:25:25 PM

Great_Milenko: bongon247: ooh beer snob thread?  I'm in.

No problem finding this on the east coast ever...

[beerchamber.com image 850x1133]

Made right there in Cooperstown, NY.

Ommegang is great stuff, although hard to find in Western Pennsylvania.

But this is even better...

[i.imgur.com image 320x580]

Three Philosophers

is awesome, especially with something spicy to eat with it.
 
2014-04-21 12:32:07 PM

CruJones: Shiner makes some darn good beers, with the exception of that bbq flavored one and I'm not a huge fan of their hefe.


I don't really care for the hefeweizen or the blonde but they are so much better than the smokehaus.
 
2014-04-21 12:49:08 PM
Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?
 
2014-04-21 12:52:29 PM

HaywoodJablonski: Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?


You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.
 
2014-04-21 12:54:15 PM

JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.


Which mass-produced beer from those areas are you referring to as "quite good"?  Mexican mass produced beer: Corona? Tecate?  Bleech...  Asians:  Singha?  Chang?  Sapporo?  Bleech... Europe:  Carling? Heineken? Stella? Jupiler? Urquell? Carslberg?  Bleech...  Nothing I'd consider any improvement over the American mass-produced beers.
 
2014-04-21 12:55:36 PM

cr7pilot: HaywoodJablonski: Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?

You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.


That's good news! I still have no reason to visit your state, but good news nonetheless.
 
2014-04-21 12:56:56 PM

NakedDrummer: I think this Hop Death fad will fade soon enough.

Remember a while back the fad was to create beers that were 10%+ alcohol with no regards to flavor or balance?  Eventually the fad diminished and the bad ones were mostly weeded out and we were left with the handful that weren't so putrid.

I am seeing more and more craft breweries putting put Belgian styles and imperials.  I just grabbed a American made sour last night even.


I'm hoping that sour beers start making inroads against the IPA shiatbombs.  Even a single shiatty sour on tap means one less shiatty IPA polluting the beer world.

That said, drink whiskey like a man
 
rka
2014-04-21 01:00:42 PM

FunkyBlue: WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.

Becuase the American beer palette was basically trained for bitter, hoppy beers. We've been trained for years through commericals that Budweiser is real beer and how it's supposed to taste. So, we drink enough of it and it's what we've become accustomed to. it's also easier and cheaper to make a hop-filled lager than a decent beer, so that's what a lot of craft brewers seem to make for this market. Even their stouts are hoppy, bitter messes. All I know is that I'm sick of walking into a bar that advertises craft beers on tap and all they have are beers called "HopBomb", "HopSlam", or "HopPocalypse".


This...or..no, how about exactly the opposite.

The American beer palette was trained for light and non-hoppy beers. Bud/Miller/Coors are not hoppy nor bitter. They are brewed to appeal to people who don't really like beer at all.

The rise of the macro beer was in lock step with the rise of Velveeta cheese and Wonder Bread.
 
rka
2014-04-21 01:05:19 PM

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer


Says who?
 
2014-04-21 01:21:46 PM

CheekyMonkey: Cyno01: Cheesehead_Dave: [scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x640]


Hoppy Easter!


Theres really only one correct choice for a beer to put in an easter basket...

[hoppeduphype.files.wordpress.com image 850x1397]

I would disagree:   http://www.duclaw.com/beer/sweet-baby-jesus/


Touche...
 
2014-04-21 01:24:40 PM

voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.


Well, it makes sense.  IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

Now it just stands for "how much hops can fit in this vat?"
 
2014-04-21 01:32:30 PM

HaywoodJablonski: cr7pilot: HaywoodJablonski: Without looking, I'd guess the sorry state of American beer is Mississippi. Or maybe Connecticut with its blue laws. Utah and its members only bars?

You'll be shocked to learn that Utah did away with membership in 2009. You can just walk in now. Sadly, that law changing hasn't led to a bunch of new bars opening. We do have two great beer bars in SLC, but that's about it. Otherwise, it's very hit and miss.

That's good news! I still have no reason to visit your state, but good news nonetheless.


True, there aren't many good reasons to visit Utah. Great skiing and hot Mormon girls are about it. Beer, not so much. Actually, we have a couple of awesome breweries here, but you can get most of their stuff out of state, so no reason to come to Utah for it.
 
2014-04-21 01:47:02 PM

NakedDrummer: JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Which mass-produced beer from those areas are you referring to as "quite good"?  Mexican mass produced beer: Corona? Tecate?  Bleech...  Asians:  Singha?  Chang?  Sapporo?  Bleech... Europe:  Carling? Heineken? Stella? Jupiler? Urquell? Carslberg?  Bleech...  Nothing I'd consider any improvement over the American mass-produced beers.


Is it true that Stella Artois, which is marketed as an upscale beer in America, is actually a crappy cheap beer in the rest of the world? Like it's the European version of Milwaukee's Best and Natty Light?
 
2014-04-21 01:56:44 PM

DrunkWithImpotence:
Well, it makes sense.  IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

Now it just stands for "how much hops can fit in this vat?"


This myth needs to be stomped out.DrunkWithImpotence: voodoohotdog: CruJones: I have no trouble finding a good beer, ever.  Just keep your mountain of hops out, thanks.

I couldn't agree more. 65% of my sales (in a very small venue) are craft beers. I've asked my reps, why this (the over hopping)  is going on. First you get the official answer; "It makes a distinctive product that discerning drinkers can easily differentiate from the others."

But for them what i think it's about is the fact that IPA's ship and store better. Something about the hops. On the consumer side it's like the hot sauce crowd. "Look what I can tolerate!" It becomes a status symbol to be able to drink an ale that literally tastes like a grapefruit it is so hoppy.

Well, it makes sense.  IPA stands for India Pale Ale, it was developed as a beer that could be shipped from England to India on sailing ships, and survive the months of transit without being spoiled.

Now it just stands for "how much hops can fit in this vat?"


This myth needs to stop.  Most of the beers originally shipped to India were porters, and they had no problems surviving the trip.  IPA ended up being popular in India because pale beers tend to do well in hot climates, and a multitude of other reasons.
 
2014-04-21 02:00:47 PM
7reasons.org

Move over, Schmitt's
 
2014-04-21 02:04:39 PM

genepool lifeboat: Brew78: Not that I drink much beer these days. Stupid celiac :-(

Have you tried any of the sorghum-based beers out there?  They're not bad.  I tried one out of curiosity and it had a really smooth taste to it.


I have, and a couple of the imports I've tried aren't that bad, but I'm just not a fan of sorghum.

Either way, I said screw it and went low carb since I'm GF anyway, so im not drinking many alternate beers either right now.

I cheat sometimes though. Oh are those tasty days!
 
2014-04-21 02:34:21 PM

mjohnson71: NakedDrummer: JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Which mass-produced beer from those areas are you referring to as "quite good"?  Mexican mass produced beer: Corona? Tecate?  Bleech...  Asians:  Singha?  Chang?  Sapporo?  Bleech... Europe:  Carling? Heineken? Stella? Jupiler? Urquell? Carslberg?  Bleech...  Nothing I'd consider any improvement over the American mass-produced beers.

Is it true that Stella Artois, which is marketed as an upscale beer in America, is actually a crappy cheap beer in the rest of the world? Like it's the European version of Milwaukee's Best and Natty Light?


It's just another typical lager like Budweiser or Heineken, which ironically is brewed by InBev, the same Belgian company that owns Budweiser.  Like Heineken, they slap the "Import" label on it cause it's from elsewhere and charge a little premium on it.  But the same goes for Budweiser when it's sold overseas.
 
2014-04-21 02:34:29 PM

cr7pilot: I didn't say I condone it, I'm just saying it's happening. If I had to guess, I'd say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think, a whole new market of hops hipsters who don't really like ales, but want that "smooth" lager experience...with 65 IBUS.

Sadly, if someone doesn't know what they're doing with the hops, the harshness takes away a lot of that "smoothness" one would expect from a lager beer.


'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite".  Brand extension BS.
 
2014-04-21 02:34:41 PM

WTF Indeed: That's a lot of concern trolling over beer. However the real problem with American CRAFT beer is that everyone wants to make an IPA.


There isn't a "THIS" image with enough impact to capture the thisness of this.
 
2014-04-21 02:54:30 PM
So the problem seems to be distribution since small stores are smaller than large stores which are larger, but that could be all fixed is if the small stores didn't carry so much of the beer people actually like to drink.    O.K.

I can deal with beer snobs.  Hey some of those beers actually do taste much better, but if people drank alcohol for the taste, then explain the popularity of Vodka, which is celebrated for having as little taste as possible.   I've known idjits to run it through a Brita filter thinking that will make it better.  Hence the fondness for less flavorful beers with "drinkability", which is a concept beginning in the 19th century. Strong flavors slow the rate of consumption and produce satisfaction sooner.   Now when I lose my patience is when I hear people go from praising the virtues of the microbrewery to tossing up quotes like "private property is theft".   The microbrewery is an example of a product being produced in one of the best possible ways.   Sure, It costs more to make, but most drinkers overindulge anyway with the cheap brews

There is one and only one true problem with the beer industry.   This artificial distribution system put in place as a compromise to end prohibition enables the mega brewers to build oligarchies.     Modern environmental manipulation has affected people's taste as well.   How many beer snobs will ramble on about strong dark beers in summer time while they live in air conditioning?   Most places with strong brewing traditions brewed beers to season.   Now, our lives are lived at constant temperatures and we drink beers with constant tones.  (O.K. some of you drink beers constantly as well)
 
2014-04-21 03:03:43 PM

I_Lurk_At_Work: This myth needs to stop.  Most of the beers originally shipped to India were porters, and they had no problems surviving the trip.  IPA ended up being popular in India because pale beers tend to do well in hot climates, and a multitude of other reasons.


I also recall reading that there was a brewer in England who came up with the concept of using more hops depending upon the season; the warmer the weather was, the more hops they'd use. The rule of thumb was something like 1 pound of hops per barrel for winter beers, 1.5 for Spring, 2 for Summer, 2.5 for late summer, etc. I think India beers had 3 or 4 pounds per barrel simply because their climate was warmer year round. I can't find the reference right now, though, and I am not sure if it's accurate. But in any case, you're right-- it had nothing to do with the hops' qualities of preserving beer.
 
2014-04-21 03:07:11 PM

CheekyMonkey: 'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite".  Brand extension BS.


It's an interesting idea, and I have had a couple that were good beers, but not quite my style. Lagers to me are good because they have a crisp. clean, drinkability. Pilsners especially because they are so hard to get exactly right. You can't hide much in a pilsner. So adding an overly hopped flavor doesn't seem to work well with it, especially since (in my opinion) a sweet malt backbone is essential to having a good IPA.
 
2014-04-21 03:55:08 PM

thehobbes: I haven't found a bourbon aged beer I have liked yet. The industry tends to be making a whiskey-flavored high alcohol content beer just for the sake of doing it.


not sure where you are at or how wide their distribution is but Boulevard brewing out of Kansas City makes a Rye on Rye about once a year that I like quite a bit
 
rka
2014-04-21 04:11:57 PM

CheekyMonkey: cr7pilot: I didn't say I condone it, I'm just saying it's happening. If I had to guess, I'd say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think, a whole new market of hops hipsters who don't really like ales, but want that "smooth" lager experience...with 65 IBUS.

Sadly, if someone doesn't know what they're doing with the hops, the harshness takes away a lot of that "smoothness" one would expect from a lager beer.

'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite".  Brand extension BS.


The other one is Cascadian Dark Ale...which soon transmorgrified into Cascadian Dark Lagers. Neither do much for me.

The current trend in the Denver beer scene is Saisons...which I love. Lots of range to play with for those who want to explore but you can also keep them nice and simple.
 
2014-04-21 04:17:49 PM
I'll just leave this here:

i1181.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-21 04:21:04 PM

rka: CheekyMonkey: cr7pilot: I didn't say I condone it, I'm just saying it's happening. If I had to guess, I'd say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Just think, a whole new market of hops hipsters who don't really like ales, but want that "smooth" lager experience...with 65 IBUS.

Sadly, if someone doesn't know what they're doing with the hops, the harshness takes away a lot of that "smoothness" one would expect from a lager beer.

'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite".  Brand extension BS.

The other one is Cascadian Dark Ale...which soon transmorgrified into Cascadian Dark Lagers. Neither do much for me.

The current trend in the Denver beer scene is Saisons...which I love. Lots of range to play with for those who want to explore but you can also keep them nice and simple.


Yeah, I'm not sold on Cascadian Dark Ales either, though I do love this, which falls just outside the style guidelines:

www.esquire.com

If you like Saisons and live in Denver, I assume you're familiar with Funkwerks up in Ft. Collins? I was there last month and loved their stuff.
 
2014-04-21 04:57:12 PM
I choose to consume Miller Low Life, because I am one.
 
2014-04-21 05:23:49 PM
Well, what I can extrapolate from these graphs:

1-Americans have AWFUL taste in beer.
2-Craft Beers are going up all around, and that's good.
3-Of the Imports, Modelo and Dos Equis are doing well, which leads me to believe the Most Interesting Man in the World (Dos Equis) and Clint Dempsey (Captain of the US National Team and Modelo spokesman) are good for advertising.
4-The "New Belgium" "Craft Beer" brand is working, even if it is a major corporation pushing a new image.
5-I don't believe it either that Blue Moon is America's favorite beer. But if it is, that's kinda weird.
 
2014-04-21 06:07:10 PM
SW Michigan..  We have Bell's, Dark Horse, Founders, Arcadia.. All have a plethora of IPAs as well as Lagers, stouts, etc.
I'll still buy a 30 case of some natty light because it's cheap and palatable for drunken golfing, drunken fishing, drunken.. well, you get the idea.. it's good for getting a group of people drunk from a cooler.  Most craft breweries are just getting into the canning business, so most still aren't an option for anything involving water/beaches.
 
2014-04-21 06:23:07 PM
As other states are embracing the craft brewing industry, Florida is set to stifle and cripple it with a bill that the state Senate is poised to pass. Ah Florida, we were almost cool. (well maybe gingerly approaching cool. ok just tolerable, but still that is a step up).
 
2014-04-21 06:34:38 PM

NakedDrummer: JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Which mass-produced beer from those areas are you referring to as "quite good"?  Mexican mass produced beer: Corona? Tecate?  Bleech...  Asians:  Singha?  Chang?  Sapporo?  Bleech... Europe:  Carling? Heineken? Stella? Jupiler? Urquell? Carslberg?  Bleech...  Nothing I'd consider any improvement over the American mass-produced beers.


To be fair, most if not all of the beers you cite suffer from the fact that they have to be shipped to the States.  No matter what the beer, if you make it spend months baking in a container ship and then sitting in a warehouse, it's going to taste pretty awful.

On the other hand, if you get it close to the source it can be pretty good.  Take Kronenbourg 1664, for instance.  I've never had a good bottle of it in the States.  However, I go to Strasbourg fairly frequently on business, and when you have Kronenbourg on tap, at a bar just down the road from the brewery, it approaches the sublime.
 
2014-04-21 06:58:15 PM
Maul555: Robo Beat: I like a good IPA as much as anyone, but there gets to be a point where the stuff is so potently hopped you kind of wonder what it is that the brewer is trying to hide from you.


Anyway, all styles have their time and place.  Miller High Life might not be the kind of beer you order at a gastropub, but damned if an ice chest full of them isn't a beautiful sight on a hot summer day.

Maybe its just me, but on a hot summers day I just sweat and sweat, and I cant even look at a beer or soda...  Give me water, gatorade, and more water...  Once I recover I can start entertaining thoughts of beer...


Gatorade and vodak is my "lawnmower beer"
 
2014-04-21 08:03:41 PM
Just drink what you like?  I'm having some fun trying a lot of the New Berlin beers now that they are available in BC.  Rampant Double IPA, and Le Terroir are terrific.

http://www.newbelgium.com/beer/detail.aspx?id=e5d60cce-6eea-4ef9-a30 0- 0a46e8ce5123
 
2014-04-21 08:03:59 PM

Mr. Right: Marcintosh: odd, just saw a movie with an actor actually "drinking" one of these -

[onmilwaukee.com image 400x300]

was surprised his noggin didn't collapse into it's self like a shrunken head

[wpb.org image 848x477]

Oh, God.  I remember those.  Just take the l out of the name to describe the gastric effect.  Profound gastric effect.  W-a-a-a-y more effective than X-lax but without that enticing flavor.


to be fair, in the early '70s and earlier, it WAS good american beer.  It outsold Bud in many markets.  They bet the company on a new type of brewing (went from top brew to center brew) and they made a new brewery to support their demand (which again, was HUGE)  Was supposed to taste exactly the same and instead tasted god awful.  Local stores couldn't GIVE it away.  Everyone thought it'd gone bad.
Since they'd gone into debt to finance the new brewery and cratered their name, they were done for.
I'd heard that Stroh's had bought them out.
 
2014-04-21 08:23:54 PM

GoSurfing: I choose to consume Miller Low Life, because I am one.


Quit drinking on the job and get back to milling my flour
 
2014-04-21 10:29:15 PM

Robo Beat: NakedDrummer: JackieRabbit: Don't know what article you are referring to. A beer can be mass-produced and still be quite good, as the Mexicans, Asians, and Europeans prove. Even some American beers are quite good. But the most popular ones scarcely qualify as beer. They are just malted beverages. Sorry, but if you are adding sugar to your beer after it has been brewed and before bottling, you aren't selling a real beer. There is never any good excuse to use artificial ingredients in beer, wine or spirits. A good brewer or distiller doesn't need them.

Which mass-produced beer from those areas are you referring to as "quite good"?  Mexican mass produced beer: Corona? Tecate?  Bleech...  Asians:  Singha?  Chang?  Sapporo?  Bleech... Europe:  Carling? Heineken? Stella? Jupiler? Urquell? Carslberg?  Bleech...  Nothing I'd consider any improvement over the American mass-produced beers.

To be fair, most if not all of the beers you cite suffer from the fact that they have to be shipped to the States.  No matter what the beer, if you make it spend months baking in a container ship and then sitting in a warehouse, it's going to taste pretty awful.

On the other hand, if you get it close to the source it can be pretty good.  Take Kronenbourg 1664, for instance.  I've never had a good bottle of it in the States.  However, I go to Strasbourg fairly frequently on business, and when you have Kronenbourg on tap, at a bar just down the road from the brewery, it approaches the sublime.


I've had Heineken in Amsterdam.  Carlsberg and Tuborg  in Copenhagan.  Stella, Jupiler, and Primus in Brussels.  Singha and Chang in Bangkok.  Urquell and BudVar in Prague.  and Carling in London.  Even in their home turf it's not any more exciting or any better than Budweiser/Coors/Miller.

Meanwhile, Delerium is damn good in Brussels at the Delerium Café, and it's still damn good on tap here in NYC at the local Belgian bar.

Part of it might be the lame green and clear bottles they use which allows light to get in.  first rule of brewing is to use dark bottles.
 
2014-04-21 11:56:58 PM
Those beers listed as "craft' beers don't look very crafty to me.  Sam Adams and Redhook aren't Bud or Coors, but they aren't little craft brewers either.

Georgetown's "Manny's".  Try it if you are ever in Seattle. It's good stuff.
 
2014-04-22 09:00:51 AM
old.post-gazette.com
 
2014-04-22 09:45:45 AM

WinoRhino: CheekyMonkey: 'India Pale Lager' sounds like something dreamed up by a marketing team, likely the same one who came up with "ice", "dry" and "lite".  Brand extension BS.

It's an interesting idea, and I have had a couple that were good beers, but not quite my style. Lagers to me are good because they have a crisp. clean, drinkability. Pilsners especially because they are so hard to get exactly right. You can't hide much in a pilsner. So adding an overly hopped flavor doesn't seem to work well with it, especially since (in my opinion) a sweet malt backbone is essential to having a good IPA.


Pilsners, for me, are in the category of "too boring, why bother"?  They are the beer equivalent of tofu*, eaten straight out of the package.

*note that I'm not anti-tofu.  It can be quite tasty, marinated and baked
 
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