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(BBC)   Good news everybody, 80% of China's land isn't contaminated   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 55
    More: Scary, cadmium, chemical plants, heavy industrial, fifths, square kilometres, arable land, land areas, Pearl River Delta  
•       •       •

6181 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2014 at 9:18 PM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2014-04-18 08:16:25 PM
Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.
 
2014-04-18 08:59:05 PM

NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.


you mean delegating responsibility for the environment to an easily manipulated regulatory body that quickly becomes the servant of big oil and other faceless corporations?  yeah, the government does a bang up job of protecting the environment-- and at such an affordable price too!
 
2014-04-18 09:20:55 PM
OM MAGOODNESS this is quite the greatness of the news. What will be the next thing upon which we will learn of this area? Will we do the learning that 18% of the individuals who are executed in this place actually did commit the serious crime? I am glad you think this is the good news but I do not have the feeling upon which this is the case. So please do not talk of the China.
 
2014-04-18 09:23:01 PM
I read that headline in Dr. Nick's voice, preceded by, "Hi everybody!"
 
2014-04-18 09:24:15 PM
What's a little heavy metal between friends?
 
2014-04-18 09:29:51 PM

nickdaisy: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

you mean delegating responsibility for the environment to an easily manipulated regulatory body that quickly becomes the servant of big oil and other faceless corporations?  yeah, the government does a bang up job of protecting the environment-- and at such an affordable price too!


Regulatory body not 100% effective, therefore regulatory body should be eliminated.

That's some fine logic.
 
2014-04-18 09:34:02 PM
I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.  They're also experiencing desertification up north because our demand for cheaper cashmere has resulted in large flocks for sheep over-grazing the area.

They could (and might have to) choose to slow down their growth to be less destructive.  The US and Europe got away with it because we had much smaller populations when we did it - but we still paid for it.  Here in Silicon Valley, the topsoil is full of arsenic from old citrus fruit groves.  If you regrade an old schoolyard, you often have to remove the top 6" and import fresh soil from elsewhere.  Do a construction project near a freeway or major artery and that soil probably has to be removed because it's full of lead from the leaded fuel days.  Soil brokerage is a big business!
 
2014-04-18 09:37:07 PM

ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?


media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
 
2014-04-18 09:37:35 PM
This is what happens when we treat third world countries as equals, instead of acknowledging that they are 100 years behind us.
 
2014-04-18 09:52:30 PM

carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.


I've heard that argument several times now, and I'm not buying it. We didn't MAKE them dump their chromium ore into the river right upstream of their drinking water intake or not put scrubbers on their smokestacks. Would doing so have raised the price of an iPod four or five bucks? Yeah, probably. But the cheap Chinese labor so undercut the Western labor prices, the Chinese could have done some basic things to protect their environment and still been more than competitive. Were we happy not to pay those extra few dollars? Sure, we gladly took the bargain, but the Chinese willingly (as much as any Chinese can will anything under the CPC) chose to do those things themselves. Bottom line: it's their fault alone.
 
2014-04-18 09:52:42 PM
GOP seen furiously taking notes. Or masturbating, sometimes it's hard to tell with GOPees.
 
2014-04-18 09:53:08 PM
don't worry, a little arsenic in your rice is ok for you... if you consume less than 1 cup per week...
 
2014-04-18 09:58:17 PM
Too bad it's the 80% under the topsoil.
 
2014-04-18 09:59:15 PM

carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.  They're also experiencing desertification up north because our demand for cheaper cashmere has resulted in large flocks for sheep over-grazing the area.

They could (and might have to) choose to slow down their growth to be less destructive.  The US and Europe got away with it because we had much smaller populations when we did it - but we still paid for it.  Here in Silicon Valley, the topsoil is full of arsenic from old citrus fruit groves.  If you regrade an old schoolyard, you often have to remove the top 6" and import fresh soil from elsewhere.  Do a construction project near a freeway or major artery and that soil probably has to be removed because it's full of lead from the leaded fuel days.  Soil brokerage is a big business!


They're in this position because the Chinese government doesn't give a shiat about the average Chinese worker, just the millionaire and billionaires who own the factories and mines.

blackhalo: I read that headline in Dr. Nick's voice, preceded by, "Hi everybody!"


Not a Futurama fan?
 
2014-04-18 10:01:15 PM

Hilary T. N. Seuss: carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.

I've heard that argument several times now, and I'm not buying it. We didn't MAKE them dump their chromium ore into the river right upstream of their drinking water intake or not put scrubbers on their smokestacks. Would doing so have raised the price of an iPod four or five bucks? Yeah, probably. But the cheap Chinese labor so undercut the Western labor prices, the Chinese could have done some basic things to protect their environment and still been more than competitive. Were we happy not to pay those extra few dollars? Sure, we gladly took the bargain, but the Chinese willingly (as much as any Chinese can will anything under the CPC) chose to do those things themselves. Bottom line: it's their fault alone.


Ya this.

The PRC did this to themselves to be more competitive, we didn't force them to poison their own land.

Maybe if China had spent the 400 years after the Enlightenment modernizing like the rest of the world instead of resting on their laurels they wouldn't have had to rape their own country to catch up.

Seriously, there were provinces in China as of the Republican revolution that hadn't yet adopted the wheel.

THE WHEEL.
 
2014-04-18 10:08:59 PM

NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.


Which justifies a foreign policy of Lebensraum.
 
2014-04-18 10:10:12 PM
ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeam for me, Nunchang District!
 
2014-04-18 10:10:22 PM
I'm calling bullshiat, unless it's a massive reduction in population in 10 years
 
2014-04-18 10:10:44 PM

NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.


Except no republican has actually said that. Republicans and Democrats are way closer to each other on enrironmental policy than China is to any of us.
 
2014-04-18 10:15:45 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-18 10:18:38 PM

kling_klang_bed: ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeam for me, Nunchang District!


The Fright of Icarus!!
 
2014-04-18 10:26:46 PM
Ryker's Peninsula: kling_klang_bed: ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeam for me, Nunchang District!

The Fright of Icarus!!


Japanese came across the sea
They brought us pain and miserrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyy!!
 
2014-04-18 10:32:24 PM
tea baggers and deniers are EVERYWHERE!
 
2014-04-18 10:34:08 PM

piledhigheranddeeper: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

Except no republican has actually said that. Republicans and Democrats are way closer to each other on enrironmental policy than China is to any of us.


No republican has said that they won't agree with Obama because he's "blah" either.

(Almost) no republican has said that they are pushing for changes to voting laws because "those" people are going to vote democrat.

 /I don't care what they say. I judge them by their actions.
 
2014-04-18 10:43:18 PM
Well, poisoning everyone is one way to limit population.
 
2014-04-18 10:46:33 PM
Chung Kuo can suck it. More like the "Arsenic Kingdom" now, right?
 
2014-04-18 10:52:24 PM

Lunchlady: Hilary T. N. Seuss: carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.

I've heard that argument several times now, and I'm not buying it. We didn't MAKE them dump their chromium ore into the river right upstream of their drinking water intake or not put scrubbers on their smokestacks. Would doing so have raised the price of an iPod four or five bucks? Yeah, probably. But the cheap Chinese labor so undercut the Western labor prices, the Chinese could have done some basic things to protect their environment and still been more than competitive. Were we happy not to pay those extra few dollars? Sure, we gladly took the bargain, but the Chinese willingly (as much as any Chinese can will anything under the CPC) chose to do those things themselves. Bottom line: it's their fault alone.

Ya this.

The PRC did this to themselves to be more competitive, we didn't force them to poison their own land.

Maybe if China had spent the 400 years after the Enlightenment modernizing like the rest of the world instead of resting on their laurels they wouldn't have had to rape their own country to catch up.

Seriously, there were provinces in China as of the Republican revolution that hadn't yet adopted the wheel.

THE WHEEL.


That seems like there's a story behind it, like those swampy territories in the south where everything sinks into the marsh.
 
2014-04-18 10:55:05 PM

Danger Avoid Death: ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 640x552]


That movie was terrible and she was one of the worst heroines imaginable.  The pacing for her story was tedious to put it gently.
 
2014-04-18 10:59:55 PM

Gergesa: Danger Avoid Death: ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 640x552]

That movie was terrible and she was one of the worst heroines imaginable.  The pacing for her story was tedious to put it gently.


Do you know how I can tell you're not a stoner?
 
2014-04-18 11:12:51 PM

broken jebus: Gergesa: Danger Avoid Death: ClavellBCMI: What's a little heavy metal between friends?

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 640x552]

That movie was terrible and she was one of the worst heroines imaginable.  The pacing for her story was tedious to put it gently.

Do you know how I can tell you're not a stoner?


images3.makefive.com
 
2014-04-18 11:24:04 PM

fusillade762: nickdaisy: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

you mean delegating responsibility for the environment to an easily manipulated regulatory body that quickly becomes the servant of big oil and other faceless corporations?  yeah, the government does a bang up job of protecting the environment-- and at such an affordable price too!

Regulatory body not 100% effective, therefore regulatory body should be eliminated.

That's some fine logic.


Some people break laws: therefore, no laws and police!
 
2014-04-18 11:26:40 PM

ghare: fusillade762: nickdaisy: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

you mean delegating responsibility for the environment to an easily manipulated regulatory body that quickly becomes the servant of big oil and other faceless corporations?  yeah, the government does a bang up job of protecting the environment-- and at such an affordable price too!

Regulatory body not 100% effective, therefore regulatory body should be eliminated.

That's some fine logic.

Some people break laws: therefore, no laws and police!


Hey, laws don't prevent crime, so we shouldn't have them.
 
2014-04-18 11:27:42 PM
茶包是无处不在
 
2014-04-18 11:31:00 PM

TheBigJerk: Lunchlady: Hilary T. N. Seuss: carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.

I've heard that argument several times now, and I'm not buying it. We didn't MAKE them dump their chromium ore into the river right upstream of their drinking water intake or not put scrubbers on their smokestacks. Would doing so have raised the price of an iPod four or five bucks? Yeah, probably. But the cheap Chinese labor so undercut the Western labor prices, the Chinese could have done some basic things to protect their environment and still been more than competitive. Were we happy not to pay those extra few dollars? Sure, we gladly took the bargain, but the Chinese willingly (as much as any Chinese can will anything under the CPC) chose to do those things themselves. Bottom line: it's their fault alone.

Ya this.

The PRC did this to themselves to be more competitive, we didn't force them to poison their own land.

Maybe if China had spent the 400 years after the Enlightenment modernizing like the rest of the world instead of resting on their laurels they wouldn't have had to rape their own country to catch up.

Seriously, there were provinces in China as of the Republican revolution that hadn't yet adopted the wheel.

THE WHEEL.

That seems like there's a story behind it, like those swampy territories in the south where everything sinks into the marsh.


So we built another one, and it fell and sank into the swamp...
 
2014-04-18 11:34:13 PM
China has a massive soil erosion problem, with their most pollution regions having the highest erosion rates, and when those heavy metal laden soils erode, guess where the dust and silt goes?

Meanwhile, enjoy your fish sandwich from Wendy's, made with real North Pacific cod.
 
2014-04-18 11:40:35 PM

piledhigheranddeeper: Except no republican has actually said that.


Well, no, they're generally not quite that stupid.  However, they do lobby, advocate, legislate and vote for that.  But as long as they don't actually say it, I guess that's OK, right?
 
2014-04-18 11:44:55 PM
So how many New Jerseys would that be?

Fact: New Jersey has more superfund sites than any other state in the nation
 
2014-04-18 11:52:13 PM
Not surprised in the least China has chosen profits over it own people, some thing we need to stop here .
 
2014-04-18 11:56:17 PM
Who wants to smell my hand?
 
2014-04-19 12:13:46 AM

dantheman195: So how many New Jerseys would that be?

Fact: New Jersey has more superfund sites than any other state in the nation


Explains quite a lot, actually.
 
2014-04-19 12:19:40 AM

piledhigheranddeeper: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

Except no republican has actually said that. Republicans and Democrats are way closer to each other on enrironmental policy than China is to any of us.


I could find things on forums where people look at the Chinese pollution and get upset because that means that they are making money, and the clean air in the US means we are not.

Want cites?  I can dig up cites.
 
2014-04-19 12:28:31 AM
Yeah, one party sponsors bills like http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/01/14/first-2014-congressional-agenda- d ismantle-epa-protections    GOP is not a friend of the environment these days.  The lunatics run that asylum.

but hey, tax cuts, amirite?!
 
2014-04-19 12:29:27 AM
cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2014-04-19 12:32:41 AM
The bad news is that almost everyone in China lives in the other 20%
 
2014-04-19 12:43:13 AM

piledhigheranddeeper: NFA: Keep in mind folks, there are people in our Republican party who want America to adopt China's stance on the environment.  Contaminating the environment for a profit is a good thing to them.

Except no republican has actually said that. Republicans and Democrats are way closer to each other on enrironmental policy than China is to any of us.


So Bill Clinton shouldn't have given China permanebt most-favored trading status. And Walmart shouldn't have sold us out to China while Hillary was an exexutive?
 
2014-04-19 12:44:15 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: China has a massive soil erosion problem, with their most pollution regions having the highest erosion rates, and when those heavy metal laden soils erode, guess where the dust and silt goes?

Meanwhile, enjoy your fish sandwich from Wendy's, made with real North Pacific cod.


If I had access to Wendys I would. Cod is not one of the dangerous fish as far as heavy metal pollution goes.
 
2014-04-19 01:05:21 AM
This article is blocked in China.

/lives in Shanghai
//isn't joking
 
2014-04-19 01:36:44 AM

Omahawg: [nuclear pic 850x572]


That right there would be a  prime piece of real estate for an aluminum mill.
 
2014-04-19 01:58:32 AM

Hilary T. N. Seuss: carlisimo: I'm not a fan of the PRC at all, but we have to be fair to them - the pollution there is a byproduct of our demand for cheap goods.

I've heard that argument several times now, and I'm not buying it. We didn't MAKE them dump their chromium ore into the river right upstream of their drinking water intake or not put scrubbers on their smokestacks. Would doing so have raised the price of an iPod four or five bucks? Yeah, probably. But the cheap Chinese labor so undercut the Western labor prices, the Chinese could have done some basic things to protect their environment and still been more than competitive. Were we happy not to pay those extra few dollars? Sure, we gladly took the bargain, but the Chinese willingly (as much as any Chinese can will anything under the CPC) chose to do those things themselves. Bottom line: it's their fault alone.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----------

The situation is kind of chicken and egg.
They needed to get their economy modernized, and get jobs for their people.
The value of labor in China has always been low, so they just lowered it, so that Western Manufacturing plants would move into China, and the economy could start improving.
China has never had a great regulatory environment, for, well, anything.
They soon found out they needed to produce more energy. First they did the big Dam project, thinking that would be enough, but it wasn't and they have a bunch of coal, so it was off to the races on producing coal plants.
Chinese leadership then thought this process would only be about 20 to 25 years, as export led growth got Singapore, South Korea, and several other countries quite a long ways towards modernity within that same time frame.
However, four world recessions, 1987 (banking/S&L), 1996 (Asian real estate bubble burst/Baht Crisis), 2001 (Dot-Com/MCI World Com/Energy Scandal/Enron), and 2007/8-2011 (Everything Financial) caused their export lead growth to take 45 years instead, and they still aren't there.

Finally, for 20 years, the west has been ever increasingly sending back the cheap crap that we get from China, back to China when it breaks or we want the next generation of electronic gadget, and although the companies moving this trash from the US to China, say they are "recycling", in reality they are dumping in giant piles, where people sift, sort, smash, spill and set fire to the plastic and heavy metal laden components that once were in the machines that the other part of Chinese Manufacturing started producing to drive economic growth.

Could China have changed it's policies? Would that have even been possible?
Now they are also facing 50 Million Surplus men, an educated 30 million strong female workforce that doesn't want to get married/start a family early, and a now self inflicted due to pollution - 12.5% female infertility rate and about a 40% male infertility rate.
China is in a world of hurt.
India, is just as bad off in all aspects, it's just that they self-selected to abort female children, polluted their rivers and lands for internal regions, and the females have just gotten both educated and if not educated are sick and tired of the men treating them like dirt in most cases.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are both facing huge problems with Arsenic levels in their rice at harmful levels 100parts/billion, and what they are feeding their children in terms of rice formula is at 400 parts/billion, and now brain and development disorders/cancers are increasing to serious levels of damage to the youth of these countries at a level that hasn't been seen since the Chinese "Great Leap Forward" when a large number of Chinese children went without iodized salt, leaving them developmentally impaired.

So TL;DR
The international system helped China make decisions that put itself into this predicament, but to be fair all of Asia is now in a terrible place, and current conditions could spell catastrophic future population decline and internal disfunction if nothing is done to halt the pollution and help correct what has been left untreated for so long.
 
2014-04-19 04:07:31 AM

spawn73: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: China has a massive soil erosion problem, with their most pollution regions having the highest erosion rates, and when those heavy metal laden soils erode, guess where the dust and silt goes?

Meanwhile, enjoy your fish sandwich from Wendy's, made with real North Pacific cod.

If I had access to Wendys I would. Cod is not one of the dangerous fish as far as heavy metal pollution goes.


However, just by being from Wendy's, the sandwich itself is likely toxic
 
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