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(Salon)   Activists protest slave labor in Alabama. This is not a repeat from 1860   (salon.com) divider line 76
    More: Obvious, Alabama, solitary confinement, state prisons, Industrial Workers of the World, Bureau of Justice Assistance  
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4275 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2014 at 3:54 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-18 02:22:19 PM
Well, that article was about as informative as Fox News.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-18 03:18:28 PM
Maybe they could develop a system where convicts could be leased out to private businesses.
 
2014-04-18 03:55:50 PM
Stay Out of JAIL Aszzhole
 
2014-04-18 04:00:25 PM
Steady work is best for everyone. Being overworked feels shiatty. Nothing to do all day makes people crazy.
www.blahpers.com
 
2014-04-18 04:01:51 PM
Maybe you should have thought about that before you decided to smoke weed.
 
2014-04-18 04:03:04 PM

AirForceVet: Well, that article was about as informative as Fox News.


img1.fark.net
 
2014-04-18 04:03:17 PM
Isn't it constutional to use prisoners as slave labor?
 
2014-04-18 04:03:50 PM

ChipNASA: Stay Out of JAIL Aszzhole


I'll be generous and say stay out of prison aszzhole.  If you get sent upstate for armed robbery, working the prison kitchens, laundry, landscaping, and making license plates gets no sympathy from me.  And they should be doing labor of some kind.  It's a non-issue.

People in jail awaiting trial, or in jails for short term sentences, I am a-ok with them just lounging in jail watching TV.
 
2014-04-18 04:05:09 PM

zipdog: Maybe you should have thought about that before you decided to smoke weed.


Is that wat Melvin Ray is in prison for?  Does anybody know?  I'm guessing it's something pretty serious otherwise Salon would have highlighted it in their fluff piece.
 
2014-04-18 04:05:42 PM

soupafi: Isn't it constutional to use prisoners as slave labor?


Yes.
 
2014-04-18 04:08:28 PM
You mean they just figured this out?
 
2014-04-18 04:10:24 PM
Dude must have been a bad, bad boy because he  has life without parole according to dept. of corrections website.
 
2014-04-18 04:10:31 PM

eiger: soupafi: Isn't it constutional to use prisoners as slave labor?

Yes.


For more info, wiki sez.
The 13th Amendment of the American Constitution in 1865 explicitly allows penal labour as it states that "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."[23][24] Unconvicted detainees awaiting trial cannot be forced to participate in forced rehabilitative labour programs in prison as it violates the Thirteenth Amendment.

Don't agree with it, but there it is.
 
2014-04-18 04:12:10 PM

CivicMindedFive: I'll be generous and say stay out of prison aszzhole. If you get sent upstate for armed robbery, working the prison kitchens, laundry, landscaping, and making license plates gets no sympathy from me. And they should be doing labor of some kind. It's a non-issue.


No sympathy?

As in "they sleep in blanketless/pillowless steel coffins bolted to the floors, for roughly 30 minutes during each of the three daily shift-changes, are fed rotting food and barely-potable water once a day (which they pay for, out of the $.30/hour they make doing hard labor), are punished with longer sentences, beatings, and solitary for noncompliance at any stage"?

Or did you mean "little sympathy"?

// they should be doing labor, but they should be paid at (or damn near) minimum wage, and directly by the businesses that "hire" them
// to do it the way we're currently doing it is to invite graft and fraud (to get more free laborers)
 
2014-04-18 04:15:24 PM

Dr Dreidel: No sympathy?

As in "they sleep in blanketless/pillowless steel coffins bolted to the floors, for roughly 30 minutes during each of the three daily shift-changes, are fed rotting food and barely-potable water once a day (which they pay for, out of the $.30/hour they make doing hard labor), are punished with longer sentences, beatings, and solitary for noncompliance at any stage"?


That is why I don't break the law.
I don't rape, I don't murder, and I definitely don't rape.
I don't rob banks.
I don't deal drugs.
I do things that will keep me out of prison.

Where would you put Jerry Sandusky? In a country club?
 
2014-04-18 04:16:43 PM

Dr Dreidel: CivicMindedFive: I'll be generous and say stay out of prison aszzhole. If you get sent upstate for armed robbery, working the prison kitchens, laundry, landscaping, and making license plates gets no sympathy from me. And they should be doing labor of some kind. It's a non-issue.

No sympathy?

As in "they sleep in blanketless/pillowless steel coffins bolted to the floors, for roughly 30 minutes during each of the three daily shift-changes, are fed rotting food and barely-potable water once a day (which they pay for, out of the $.30/hour they make doing hard labor), are punished with longer sentences, beatings, and solitary for noncompliance at any stage"?

Or did you mean "little sympathy"?

// they should be doing labor, but they should be paid at (or damn near) minimum wage, and directly by the businesses that "hire" them
// to do it the way we're currently doing it is to invite graft and fraud (to get more free laborers)


Ever hear the phrase "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"?
Minimum wage is a joke. $.30 an hour sounds about right, IMHO.
 
2014-04-18 04:18:56 PM
Approves.  Does not give a flying fark what you think.

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com

i100.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-18 04:20:05 PM

vudukungfu: I do things that will keep me out of prison.


Let me guess. You're also white, right?
 
2014-04-18 04:21:26 PM
Time .. crime .. etc
 
2014-04-18 04:24:15 PM
There are two forms of actual, legal slavery left in the US. The first is prison labor. Offering someone less time in jail or privileges in exchange for labor is coercion. It's still slavery if you tell the guy your enslaving "you can get out of here sooner if you work".

The other system of slavery left in the US is the draft.
 
2014-04-18 04:26:56 PM
Has nobody even challenged the practice of charging inmates room and board in court? Call it a fine if you want, but I think if I got out of prison and received a bill I'd just go ahead and jump out of the nearest window.

(For the sake of this fantasy I was innocent of course, but still...)
 
2014-04-18 04:28:45 PM

Odd Bird: Approves.  Does not give a flying fark what you think.

[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 331x216]

[i100.photobucket.com image 338x190]


that is one fine pie
 
2014-04-18 04:34:09 PM
Told me a lie
 
2014-04-18 04:34:32 PM

CivicMindedFive: ChipNASA: Stay Out of JAIL Aszzhole

I'll be generous and say stay out of prison aszzhole.  If you get sent upstate for armed robbery, working the prison kitchens, laundry, landscaping, and making license plates gets no sympathy from me.  And they should be doing labor of some kind.  It's a non-issue.

People in jail awaiting trial, or in jails for short term sentences, I am a-ok with them just lounging in jail watching TV.



Because no one in American is wrongfully convicted, ever.
 
2014-04-18 04:35:18 PM
The prisoners broke the law. Many of them hurt people. On the assumption that the laws are well written and fair and the courts enforce them properly (and I'm not certain that's a good assumption) almost all of them hurt people (including stealing).

That doesn't stop them being people. They STILL have basic rights, and should be treated well. I'm obviously not suggesting we hire masseuses for them. They don't need to dine on caviar and fine champagne. But that doesn't mean you get to work them until they drop. They deserve some basic comforts. They deserve to be kept healthy. It's even in our best interest to help them improve themselves while they're locked up.

As I recall, we're supposed to be judged be how we treat the least of us. (Bible, right?) Who could possibly be less than a convicted murderer?
 
2014-04-18 04:37:40 PM

Dr Dreidel: // they should be doing labor, but they should be paid at (or damn near) minimum wage, and directly by the businesses that "hire" them
// to do it the way we're currently doing it is to invite graft and fraud (to get more free laborers)


Which is pretty much what they are inferring... The article stated that, it seemed to me, that they were getting sent to prison for longer sentences, such as life with no parole, just so they could use them for longer...

While they are in prison for something, obviously, and while I disagree with 20+ years for weed, it doesn't help when the person they're getting their info from is already in solitary for who knows what else, and using cell phones which we already know are illegal in a prison, and so on...

But, if they're eating rotted meat, working in unsafe conditions, unsafe areas, wouldn't some people see that as a possible reduction in sentences if they're serving life without parole?
 
2014-04-18 04:38:03 PM

vudukungfu: Where would you put Jerry Sandusky? In a country club?


In an 8x8 (or 9x9, if you're at VT Highway Patrol HQ) room with a sliding, locking door; where all of his comings and goings are watched by hundreds of guards and thousands of other convicts (who look down on child rapists), and he gets to stare out a small, barred window at nothing for the rest of his damn life. I hope it's a long one, too, so that we get the satisfaction of watching him watch his life and legacy get pissed away (and on).

Or we could film it as a pack of wild animals rips him apart, limb by limb, and broadcast it on PBS (make it mandatory watching in schools, as well) so that kids know what happens to people that treat them bad, and adults know what happens if they fark with kids. Would that satisfy your bloodlust?

Goatwhore: Ever hear the phrase "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"?


Yes, and "the time" shouldn't be subject to the whims of sadistic greedy farkheads using convicts (who are still people, you know) to make money. The 8th Amendment exists for a reason.

Incarceration is fine, rehabilitation is better; but there is no point to allowing this kind of behavior. It encourages bad behavior by prison staff in exchange for doing nothing (judicially, economically, rehabilitatively) for the prisoner.
 
2014-04-18 04:41:20 PM

eiger: soupafi: Isn't it constutional to use prisoners as slave labor?

Yes.


Yes, it's constitutional, but that doesn't mean they need to cooperate.  Like any labor negotiation, this is give-and-take: they can refuse to work, the state can retaliate with longer sentences and harsher conditions, or the two parties can reach some other resolution.  Time will tell.
 
2014-04-18 04:41:39 PM

Dr Dreidel: CivicMindedFive: I'll be generous and say stay out of prison aszzhole. If you get sent upstate for armed robbery, working the prison kitchens, laundry, landscaping, and making license plates gets no sympathy from me. And they should be doing labor of some kind. It's a non-issue.

No sympathy?

As in "they sleep in blanketless/pillowless steel coffins bolted to the floors, for roughly 30 minutes during each of the three daily shift-changes, are fed rotting food and barely-potable water once a day (which they pay for, out of the $.30/hour they make doing hard labor), are punished with longer sentences, beatings, and solitary for noncompliance at any stage"?

Or did you mean "little sympathy"?

// they should be doing labor, but they should be paid at (or damn near) minimum wage, and directly by the businesses that "hire" them
// to do it the way we're currently doing it is to invite graft and fraud (to get more free laborers)


The TFA makes no mention of rotting food or bad water.  All I am saying is if a prisoner is doing real time for a serious crime then he should be performing some kind of labor in the prison.  If the prison wants to pay him $,30 per hour so he can buy a snickers three times a week or if he loses privileges if he refuses is also just.  If you want to talk about farming them out to outside businesses, I may find common ground not liking that purely from a government corruption point of view.  My sympathy for the prisoner is still zero.
 
2014-04-18 04:42:45 PM
"Jobs done by inmates include kitchen and laundry work, chemical and license plate production, and furniture-making."

/make it stop Alabama. How can life go on without "Heart of Dixie" license plates?

//just a bunch of whiney crooks
 
2014-04-18 04:46:42 PM

CivicMindedFive: My sympathy for the prisoner is still zero.


I certainly hope you're never falsely accused of a crime.

I also hope that if you are, you're white and upper class.
 
2014-04-18 04:47:35 PM
Prison breeds criminals.  Make prison a nicer place, and maybe, just maybe, it will rehabilitate them and make an honest person out of them, instead of destroying them and leaving them with ashes.
 
2014-04-18 04:51:43 PM
I could accept the near-to-slave conditions if I could be confident that everyone involved had done something horrible.  This video *breaks* that confidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
 
2014-04-18 04:52:59 PM
Oh, and pretty much any psychology textbook on the planet will tell you that punishment does not reduce bad behaviour.  The only way punishment works is if it is given within seconds of the bad behaviour, and only if it lasts seconds.  A violent crazy murderer?  Sure, lock them up, they aren't going to get better in this lifetime.  But a kid robbing a store at gunpoint?  That's bad, but there's still hope left, and sending that kid to prison is going to squash all that hope.
 
2014-04-18 04:53:35 PM

hardinparamedic: I also hope that if you are, you're white and upper class.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-04-18 04:56:02 PM

jshine: hardinparamedic: I also hope that if you are, you're white and upper class.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x213]


All I know is I wish I could commit a murder and get off on an Affluenza defense.
 
2014-04-18 04:57:03 PM
If I was in prison I would work and sleep as much as I could just to help the time go by faster. I dont mind prisoners doing work that helps to benefit the state like road cleaning, building furniture for public buildings etc but the private corporate labor is farked up.
 
2014-04-18 04:57:21 PM

ChipNASA: Stay Out of JAIL Aszzhole


The USA locks up more people than any other country by a wide margin, so your advice is extremely helpful.
 
2014-04-18 04:58:17 PM

Dr Dreidel: Yes, and "the time" shouldn't be subject to the whims of sadistic greedy farkheads using convicts (who are still people, you know) to make money. The 8th Amendment exists for a reason.

Incarceration is fine, rehabilitation is better; but there is no point to allowing this kind of behavior. It encourages bad behavior by prison staff in exchange for doing nothing (judicially, economically, rehabilitatively) for the prisoner.


Why do you hate the private-owned prison lobby, and therefore capitalism and America?
 
2014-04-18 04:58:18 PM

vudukungfu: Dr Dreidel: No sympathy?

As in "they sleep in blanketless/pillowless steel coffins bolted to the floors, for roughly 30 minutes during each of the three daily shift-changes, are fed rotting food and barely-potable water once a day (which they pay for, out of the $.30/hour they make doing hard labor), are punished with longer sentences, beatings, and solitary for noncompliance at any stage"?

That is why I don't break the law.
I don't rape, I don't murder, and I definitely don't rape.
I don't rob banks.
I don't deal drugs.
I do things that will keep me out of prison.

Where would you put Jerry Sandusky? In a country club?


You said rape twice.

/rape rape
 
2014-04-18 04:58:26 PM

hardinparamedic: vudukungfu: I do things that will keep me out of prison.

Let me guess. You're also white, right?


And can afford a decent lawyer, no doubt.
 
2014-04-18 04:58:36 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: On the assumption that the laws are well written and fair and the courts enforce them properly


devilsfoe.com
 
2014-04-18 04:59:07 PM
CivicMindedFive:
The TFA makes no mention of rotting food or bad water.  All I am saying is if a prisoner is doing real time for a serious crime then he should be performing some kind of labor in the prison.  If the prison wants to pay him $,30 per hour so he can buy a snickers three times a week or if he loses privileges if he refuses is also just.  If you want to talk about farming them out to outside businesses, I may find common ground not liking that purely from a government corruption point of view.  My sympathy for the prisoner is still zero.

Ummm, yeah:

FTA: Along with organizing work stoppages, F.A.M. has posted clandestinely shot cellphone videos from inmates describing and documenting alleged abuses, including unsafe beef, broken fire exits and exposed wires.

Although I do agree with you that they should be doing some labor, since prison shouldn't be QBLT (quality ball licking time) or just a place that churns out a hardened criminal after being given a small time one...
 
2014-04-18 04:59:22 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: The prisoners broke the law


No, most people are in prison because they could not afford a crack legal team.  We lock up more people than anyone else.  Name a country.  Any country.  We have them beat.
 
2014-04-18 05:01:51 PM

SirPeteTheGreat: I could accept the near-to-slave conditions if I could be confident that everyone involved had done something horrible.


I know there's a whole lot of people who agree with you. But I don't. People have to be given a chance. Even the worst people should be treated well. And yeah, it might feel terrible to do it because nobody really LIKES the idea of a cold blooded murderer being treated well. But I still say it's the right thing to do.
 
2014-04-18 05:02:46 PM

That Guy Jeff: There are two forms of actual, legal slavery left in the US. The first is prison labor. Offering someone less time in jail or privileges in exchange for labor is coercion. It's still slavery if you tell the guy your enslaving "you can get out of here sooner if you work".

The other system of slavery left in the US is the draft student athletics.


Say what you will about the draft, but winding up in a job that usually pays a minimum of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year is not my definition of "slavery".

/unless you meant the military draft, but that hasn't happened in many, many years
 
2014-04-18 05:04:13 PM

germ78: That Guy Jeff: There are two forms of actual, legal slavery left in the US. The first is prison labor. Offering someone less time in jail or privileges in exchange for labor is coercion. It's still slavery if you tell the guy your enslaving "you can get out of here sooner if you work".

The other system of slavery left in the US is the draft student athletics.

Say what you will about the draft, but winding up in a job that usually pays a minimum of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year is not my definition of "slavery".

/unless you meant the military draft, but that hasn't happened in many, many years



I don't think student athletes are paid anything, but they often do receive scholarships in exchange for their work, and those are extremely valuable.
 
2014-04-18 05:05:05 PM

Danger Avoid Death: I May Be Crazy But...: On the assumption that the laws are well written and fair and the courts enforce them properly

[devilsfoe.com image 316x168]


Well, that's one way to make the point.

Marcus Aurelius: I May Be Crazy But...: The prisoners broke the law

No, most people are in prison because they could not afford a crack legal team.  We lock up more people than anyone else.  Name a country.  Any country.  We have them beat.


You're right. Obviously I should have qualified that the same as I qualified the next sentences.
 
2014-04-18 05:07:51 PM
There was a time (after the end of slavery, mind) when in Alabama they'd have innocent people arrested specifically in order to use them as forced labor - and they were rented out to private "employers" rather than working in the prison. Just guess which people were arrested for this. Go ahead.

Anyone doubting me can look up John W. Pace about his practice of "peonage" using the arrested labor force.

Thankfully, it was a long time ago.
 
2014-04-18 05:10:46 PM

moeburn: Prison breeds criminals.  Make prison a nicer place, and maybe, just maybe, it will rehabilitate them and make an honest person out of them, instead of destroying them and leaving them with ashes.


No one should be sent to prison for drug use.  Rehab centers for drug users.  Non Violent criminals should be made (or heavily pushed towards) higher education instead of used as a labor force .  That way they can get a job when they get out.  Elimination of privatized prisons.   There is something really wrong with the profit of peoples incarceration.  I do support privatized education inside the prison.  Where once a ex con got a degree and decent job they would have to pay back the system for the education cost.   There is no reason why the US should have 2 million prisoners and 4million people on probation.  China has 1 billion more people than the US and still has a lower prison population.   The US prison system is really messed up.   Our Education system is equally messed up.  IMO most crime can be prevented by getting people to get higher education at an affordable rate and a decent wages to live off of.   Being broke leads to higher crime rates than being rich.  Im not saying there are no rich criminals (Madof)  but if you look at crime between a poor area in a major city and a rich area in a major city.  You can clearly see the rich folks dont commit close to the same amount of crime that poor areas do.  That all comes down to purchasing power.   If people in a poor area of a major city were all given jobs that paid 40-60k and told that they had to live there for 6 years to keep those jobs and their rent/mortgage would not go up for those 6 years.   I am willing to bet that crime would drop by half after the first year.  Then it would continue to drop for the rest of those years.
 
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