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(CNN)   Joint statement from Geneva: We realize everyone's shiat is all emotional right now, but everyone needs the chill the fark out, cuz we got us a plan to fix everything in Ukraine   (cnn.com) divider line 44
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, Geneva, Cooperation in Europe, Prime Minister of Ukraine, interim leader, Ukraine crisis, Organization for Security  
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1013 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Apr 2014 at 9:52 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-18 09:29:26 AM
The pact calls for all illegal armed groups to be disarmed, all illegally seized buildings to be returned to their legitimate owners and all occupied public spaces to be vacated. It promises amnesty for protesters who leave buildings and give up their weapons, apart from those convicted of capital crimes.

Well I guess you have to start somewhere.  But...who precisely will preside over these de escalation actions?  Who is the authority there at this point?
 
2014-04-18 09:58:54 AM
That's yesterday's news. Today's news is that the separatists have announced their intention to ignore this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/world/europe/ukraine-russia.html?h p
 
2014-04-18 09:59:27 AM
I have complete faith that the international community will be able to agree on a peaceful solution to this situation.
 
2014-04-18 10:03:12 AM
For as boring as those "space senate hearings" scenes in the new star wars movies were, I remember thinking "How can you not know or not believe that an entire planet is being blockaded?! You have to dispatch a fleet to find out?!" But I'll be damned if they didn't get it just right.

Russia is currently invading another country in slow motion. And we're going to watch it happen.

I'm not saying we need to go to war over it, yet. But it's maddening to watch.
 
2014-04-18 10:11:27 AM
Lol... Good luck with that.
 
2014-04-18 10:14:52 AM
Nice one, Subby.
 
2014-04-18 10:16:03 AM
If these separatists had retreated after Russia made this deal in Geneva, then you'd know for sure that Russia had been pulling their strings all along. Now, you're still pretty sure, but you have to believe Russia is playing a double role.
 
2014-04-18 10:19:54 AM
Sure they do....
 
2014-04-18 10:26:50 AM

Diogenes: The pact calls for all illegal armed groups to be disarmed, all illegally seized buildings to be returned to their legitimate owners and all occupied public spaces to be vacated. It promises amnesty for protesters who leave buildings and give up their weapons, apart from those convicted of capital crimes.

Well I guess you have to start somewhere.  But...who precisely will preside over these de escalation actions?  Who is the authority there at this point?


Same as it is just about everywhere else, those Private Central Banks that print money and then loan it out at interest, but can never be repaid creating perpetual debt slaves.
 
2014-04-18 10:32:22 AM
Yeah, but who are they sending?
 
2014-04-18 10:34:02 AM

The Gentleman Caller: Yeah, but who are they sending?


Jedi.
 
2014-04-18 10:36:06 AM

RobotSpider: For as boring as those "space senate hearings" scenes in the new star wars movies were, I remember thinking "How can you not know or not believe that an entire planet is being blockaded?! You have to dispatch a fleet to find out?!" But I'll be damned if they didn't get it just right.

Russia is currently invading another country in slow motion. And we're going to watch it happen.

I'm not saying we need to go to war over it, yet. But it's maddening to watch.


Except from Russia's point of veiw the EU funded a violent revolution(because the former corrupt leader renigged on their deal to be enslaved but EU debt instead of Russian debt) in a friendly neighboring country that has a strategiclly important warm water port.
 
2014-04-18 10:38:14 AM

The Gentleman Caller: Yeah, but who are they sending?


They're sending someone in to negotiate.

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-18 10:39:06 AM

flynn80: renigged


wtf is this sh*t
 
2014-04-18 10:50:15 AM
East Ukraine is sort of becoming all Wild West on us here.

You've got local grandees, randoms who want to be part of Russia even if Russia honestly doesn't want them to be part of Russia, at least some Russian military presence, and the regular Ukrainian army.

And let's remember most of Ukraine's functional economy is in the east too (sort of like Flanders and Wallonia).

So it's like Belgium except without the rule of law and the willingness to go on auto-pilot for months/years at a time.

Putin's probably realizing that East Ukraine is more profitable to him as part of a technically separate country (otherwise he'd end up taking on some of Ukraine's debt and have to deal with separatists that are more numerous and more sympathetic than the various Caucasian groups with ties to al-Qa'eda he's dealt with over the years).

Now what happens in West Ukraine if the central government starts moving back towards Russia? Will they all try to join Poland or something?
 
2014-04-18 10:50:23 AM
I am sure the International Commu.....I'm sorry. I can't stop laughing.  We live in global anarchy biatches.  Cowards and bullies. It's a global middle school.

If you are in the Ukraine, brush up on your Russian.
 
2014-04-18 10:58:12 AM
That's what you said last time, dipshiat!
 
2014-04-18 10:58:14 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-04-18 11:09:44 AM
There's really a very small window.

From the time the US annexes Ukraine as the 51st state to the time when Republicans start their shrill whining about having toPress 1 for English can't be that far apart.
 
2014-04-18 11:39:51 AM
Break it down, Camacho!
 
2014-04-18 12:00:04 PM

stpickrell: Now what happens in West Ukraine if the central government starts moving back towards Russia? Will they all try to join Poland or something?


That actually would be fun, but Poland won't take them, and some of West Ukrainian extremist are not entirely in love with Poland. And that feeling is utterly mutual. Right now Putin scares them all together, but they certainly aren't going to want to move together.

No, they'll likely just start another Maidan and push out another government, because who is going to resist them at that point? At which point current shiat will look like golden times.
 
2014-04-18 12:06:37 PM
Doesn't the U.S have some sort of armed thugs we could could send in to counter balance Russia's armed thugs?  How about Nevada cattle ranchers?
 
2014-04-18 12:16:54 PM
Here's our plan:

1. You guys slaughter all the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other undesireables in Crimea and Ukraine.

2. You FedEx all the cash, gold and other valuables you confiscate from them

3. We'll deposit all the assets in secret Swiss bank accounts

4. We take a low percentage of the annual interest we pay you for several decades.

5. We fight legal battles for decades against survivors--yeah, like that's gonna happen this time around--trying to reclaim stolen assets

6. By then, there'll be another war to repeat steps 1 through 5 for.
 
2014-04-18 12:19:32 PM

Amish Tech Support: Doesn't the U.S have some sort of armed thugs we could could send in to counter balance Russia's armed thugs?  How about Nevada cattle ranchers?


I can all but guarantee that special forces, CIA and NATO specialists have saturated most of Ukraine, albeit quietly and behind the scenes.  They're limited in what they can do, however.  The most we can do at this point is train and teach Ukraine's own special forces to try and counter Russian special forces who are, undoubtedly, leading the insurgents in the eastern cities.
 
2014-04-18 12:37:09 PM

Infernalist: Amish Tech Support: Doesn't the U.S have some sort of armed thugs we could could send in to counter balance Russia's armed thugs?  How about Nevada cattle ranchers?

I can all but guarantee that special forces, CIA and NATO specialists have saturated most of Ukraine, albeit quietly and behind the scenes.  They're limited in what they can do, however.  The most we can do at this point is train and teach Ukraine's own special forces to try and counter Russian special forces who are, undoubtedly, leading the insurgents in the eastern cities.


I'm kinda shocked as to how bad the Ukrainian armed forces.... Well how bad they suck. My guess is Putin is doing this UN deal to make a play like he did in Syria. He will now make the claim Russia is the big peacemaker in the Ukriane and his population will believe it.

In the long term I don't see this working out well for Russia. This isn't the 1980s and the Cold War, the worlds much more interconected right at this point. I think Putins living in the past, that's his weakness. Economically this is gonna hurt them with foreign investment.

You're absolutely right about us training the Ukrainians. I'm sure special forces are there with the CIA. Let's just hope none get caught.
 
2014-04-18 12:45:44 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Here's our plan:

1. You guys slaughter all the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and other undesireables in Crimea and Ukraine.

2. You FedEx all the cash, gold and other valuables you confiscate from them

3. We'll deposit all the assets in secret Swiss bank accounts

4. We take a low percentage of the annual interest we pay you for several decades.

5. We fight legal battles for decades against survivors--yeah, like that's gonna happen this time around--trying to reclaim stolen assets

6. By then, there'll be another war to repeat steps 1 through 5 for.


I'm surprised that the Jewish thing doesn't have it's own fark thread.  I mean it's kind of a big farkin' deal.
 
2014-04-18 12:46:23 PM

GentDirkly: If these separatists had retreated after Russia made this deal in Geneva, then you'd know for sure that Russia had been pulling their strings all along. Now, you're still pretty sure, but you have to believe Russia is playing a double role.


Or maybe they aren't as in control of their transplanted useful idiot brigades as they were back when they were ethnically cleansing Crimea of Tartars and shipping these clods in.
 
2014-04-18 01:21:54 PM

TheBigJerk: I'm surprised that the Jewish thing doesn't have it's own fark thread.  I mean it's kind of a big farkin' deal.


You mean like this one?
 
2014-04-18 01:29:06 PM

flynn80: RobotSpider: For as boring as those "space senate hearings" scenes in the new star wars movies were, I remember thinking "How can you not know or not believe that an entire planet is being blockaded?! You have to dispatch a fleet to find out?!" But I'll be damned if they didn't get it just right.

Russia is currently invading another country in slow motion. And we're going to watch it happen.

I'm not saying we need to go to war over it, yet. But it's maddening to watch.

Except from Russia's point of veiw the EU funded a violent revolution(because the former corrupt leader  renigged on their deal to be enslaved but EU debt instead of Russian debt) in a friendly neighboring country that has a strategiclly important warm water port.


Troll-like typing detected
 
2014-04-18 02:02:28 PM
"I have returned from Geneva with peace for our time."
 
2014-04-18 02:20:38 PM
img.fark.net

Approves
 
2014-04-18 02:23:55 PM

The Gentleman Caller: Yeah, but who are they sending?


Not Sure, I thought...
 
2014-04-18 03:39:54 PM

incendi: TheBigJerk: I'm surprised that the Jewish thing doesn't have it's own fark thread.  I mean it's kind of a big farkin' deal.

You mean like this one?


Not sure how I missed that one.  Fair enough.
 
2014-04-18 03:44:37 PM

Amish Tech Support: I'm kinda shocked as to how bad the Ukrainian armed forces.... Well how bad they suck. My guess is Putin is doing this UN deal to make a play like he did in Syria. He will now make the claim Russia is the big peacemaker in the Ukriane and his population will believe it.


Armies cost money and US weapon makers are gonna make a lot in the coming years and Putin's interest was/is in Sevastopol and the Gazprom pipelines.To allow Sevastopol to fall under the NATO umbrella is something Russia could not allow and Ukraine threats against the pipelines are what's keeping 40 k Russian troops on the border. If Putin knows the pipeline is still his and safety guaranteed he'd stand down but NAYO is sending more American and Canadian fighter squadrons into the theater. Perception is every thing and the US seems to have old Gen Le May back in charge.

Amish Tech Support: In the long term I don't see this working out well for Russia. This isn't the 1980s and the Cold War, the worlds much more interconected right at this point. I think Putins living in the past, that's his weakness. Economically this is gonna hurt them with foreign investment.


In America we all know honest George Washington was and Abe Licoln lived in a log cabin and to be a Benedict Arnold is a bad thing. Well Russia has their stories and Putin is using that to keep Russia together and Russia is very used to be cut of from the west. Just ask Pyotr Alexeyevich
 
2014-04-18 04:07:13 PM
Go Away, 'Baitin' !
 
2014-04-18 05:33:10 PM
He took aim at Russian President Vladimir Putin, however, saying that Putin wants to restore the Russian empire and that a new Soviet Union would be a disaster for Europe.

To be fair, it probably would be bad for Russia too.
 
2014-04-18 05:55:46 PM
Link">Link388864#c90388864" target="_blank">Pichu0102: He took aim at Russian President Vladimir Putin, however, saying that Putin wants to restore the Russian empire and that a new Soviet Union would be a disaster for Europe.

To be fair, it probably would be bad for Russia too.


It's funny that people seen to think 1917-1991 was the only time there was a Russian Empire
 
2014-04-18 07:01:18 PM

flynn80: RobotSpider: For as boring as those "space senate hearings" scenes in the new star wars movies were, I remember thinking "How can you not know or not believe that an entire planet is being blockaded?! You have to dispatch a fleet to find out?!" But I'll be damned if they didn't get it just right.

Russia is currently invading another country in slow motion. And we're going to watch it happen.

I'm not saying we need to go to war over it, yet. But it's maddening to watch.

Except from Russia's point of veiw the EU funded a violent revolution(because the former corrupt leader renigged on their deal to be enslaved but EU debt instead of Russian debt) in a friendly neighboring country that has a strategiclly important warm water port.


In a larger sense they consider the fall of the Soviet Union to be a huge humanitarian disaster, and in the wake of that fall the west took advantage of their weakness and forced them into horrible deals. "The West" in their eyes is has taken the last couple of decades and used it to enact revenge upon them for perceived evils, especially when what they are doing is no different from what "The West" did in Bosnia and Kosovo; except that now "the west" says that its only ok when we do it.

If anyone is interested in the Russian perspective http://eng.kremlin.ru/  has Putin's speeches translated and its interesting to see how he justifies the actions.
 
2014-04-18 07:24:19 PM

tinderfitles: If anyone is interested in the Russian perspective


The most interesting thing about it is how incredibly anachronistic it is. That's what Merkel meant when she said Putin was living in "another world". Listening to Russian assholes blather about their lost empire is like stepping into a time machine. In time they'll have to accept it's gone for good, just like every other empire, but woe unto their neighbors while they're throwing this tantrum.
 
2014-04-19 09:15:16 AM

Wooly Bully: tinderfitles: If anyone is interested in the Russian perspective

The most interesting thing about it is how incredibly anachronistic it is. That's what Merkel meant when she said Putin was living in "another world". Listening to Russian assholes blather about their lost empire is like stepping into a time machine. In time they'll have to accept it's gone for good, just like every other empire, but woe unto their neighbors while they're throwing this tantrum.


Dude, the British haven't let go of their imperial pretensions and they haven't realistically had worldwide relevance since people stopped making boats out of wood and sailing them on wind power.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

// Hell, there are French people that still hold to their version of the delusion, and they've been like three different nations with no political and little social continuity since then.
 
2014-04-19 10:53:27 AM

The Gentleman Caller: Yeah, but who are they sending?


They got this guy, Not Sure.
 
2014-04-19 11:50:30 AM

Jim_Callahan: the British haven't let go of their imperial pretensions


Well, some British people haven't "let go of their imperial pretensions", but I doubt there's a single British citizen who actually wants to try reclaiming any part of their lost empire.

Whereas Putin just invaded and annexed a piece of their former empire and apparently a majority of Russians think that's just awesome. Although to be fair there were plenty of Russians who were horrified, too. There was a huge demonstration against it.
 
2014-04-19 04:32:36 PM

Wooly Bully: Jim_Callahan: the British haven't let go of their imperial pretensions

Well, some British people haven't "let go of their imperial pretensions", but I doubt there's a single British citizen who actually wants to try reclaiming any part of their lost empire.

Whereas Putin just invaded and annexed a piece of their former empire and apparently a majority of Russians think that's just awesome. Although to be fair there were plenty of Russians who were horrified, too. There was a huge demonstration against it.


A lot of Russians are drunken assholes with serious long-term health problems and/or mental deficiencies.

Basically, imagine the Fox News crowd, except instead of having access to Medicaid, they have access to large volumes of cheap, shiatty vodak.

Obviously I'm not implying all Russians are drunken, water-headed, nationalistic morons. But farked up societies produce larger numbers of farked up people than well-run societies do. And Russia is one of the most farked-up places outside of the third world.
 
2014-04-19 05:20:48 PM
Russians never accepted Crimea as Ukrainian, apparently. Even demonstrations against it were against HOW Putin took Crimea, not against the fact that it was taken. In a recent vote by one of Russian magazines I sometimes am contracted to work for (completely unscientific, but I think rather indicative) 90% of the people were for annexation of Crimea. In the next vote, about annexation of any part of Eastern Ukraine, 80% were against it.
 
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