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(CBS New York)   Eight-year-old girl gets surprise package from Amazon in the mail. Fark: It contains two boxes of condoms and Amazon won't tell her parents who the anonymous sender is, unless they get a a subpoena. Cops: It "might" be considered harassment   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 80
    More: Scary, Amazon, CBS, tags, Christine Angelides, subpoenas, harassment  
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5436 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2014 at 12:58 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-18 01:03:17 AM  
18 votes:
I don't care what TFA says.  Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena.  That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.
2014-04-18 01:39:42 AM  
9 votes:
By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.
2014-04-18 02:29:33 AM  
6 votes:

DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.


I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?
2014-04-18 02:13:19 AM  
6 votes:

theflatline: Yes this is dog: mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.

It also washes Amazon's hands of any liability if the jerk who sent the condoms ends up having a little 'accident.'

Exactly,

I work for a major telco as a tech manager.  And I get tons of esclated calls about "you need to tell me the text messages, emails, what apps they are using etc"

And I always say "if your life is in danger then call the cops and have them call me" .

If I gave out the information I would be liable as the company if something happened.

The other day I got a call because a lady had her text message to voice reading turned on.

Turned out she was sitting on the couch with her husband and her lover texted her and the phone read a pretty explicit text message, and she was going to sue me, the company, and Samsung, because of her own stupidity.


Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.
2014-04-18 03:22:45 AM  
5 votes:

mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple


That's my take, and it looks like the couple took their hint and contacted the police. So, it seems like law enforcement are actually the ones not interested in solving this mystery. I'm all for being proactive when it comes to keeping children safe, but real predators probably don't ship boxes of condoms to their target's house. This is probably pretty safely in "prank" territory, and the cops seem to agree.
2014-04-18 01:52:49 AM  
5 votes:
1. If the parents go to the cops, why wouldn't cops and the da get a subpoena?

2. I can buy Amazon gift cards from Walmart for cash.

3. I can get an Amazon gift card from CoinStar for cash.

4. Amazon is very protective of customer privacy. Stories of Bezos nuking various marketing campaigns that would put too much revealing information in emails.
2014-04-18 05:03:56 AM  
4 votes:

FormatSlacker: ... or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.


...do what now?

"If you use any Amazon Service, you are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your account and password and for restricting access to your computer, and you agree to accept responsibility for all activities that occur under your account or password. Amazon does sell products for children, but it sells them to adults, who can purchase with a credit card or other permitted payment method. If you are under 18, you may use the Amazon Services only with involvement of a parent or guardian."

"Are Children Allowed to Use Amazon.com?
Amazon.com does not sell products for purchase by children. We sell children's products for purchase by adults. If you are under 18, you may use Amazon.com only with the involvement of a parent or guardian."

"We release account and other personal information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law (read: when presented with a subpoena or warrant); enforce or apply our Conditions of Use and other agreements; or protect the rights, property, or safety of Amazon.com, our users, or others "

Amazon Terms of Use and Privacy Policy which it took me less than two seconds to Google.

By your logic, any and every retailer on the planet should accept responsibility for selling condoms, rope, handcuffs. shovels, knives, adult diapers, duct tape, trash bags, bleach, etc. to anyone on the planet with cash or a credit card, whether they're buying them for legitimate reasons or because they plan on driving from Texas to Florida to kill their boyfriend's wife/girlfriend/whatever the hell the crazy astronaut was gonna do.

Amazon is one of the biggest retailers in the world. I'm sure they called up the NSA and asked whether or not the recipient of a small order was 18--because I just know two boxes of condoms was the biggest order that crossed their system all year.
2014-04-18 02:12:23 AM  
4 votes:

LikeALeafOnTheWind: my theory is the dad sent them. Hes having and affair, needed some condoms,


Yeah, because it's so hard to find condoms anywhere these days. Geez. No man would want to put himself in the middle of the resulting drama that would ensue from having condoms delivered to his own house, regardless of the name on the shipping label. If he did do this, he's too stupid to be allowed to have one woman, let alone two.
2014-04-18 01:35:44 AM  
4 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


Amazon gift cards are pretty common gifts these days. A kid could decide to blow Grandma's Christmas gift on a prank.
2014-04-18 06:52:42 AM  
3 votes:
Is it possible that one, or both, of the parents is a douchebag and has commented a few times too often that their little girl won't be allowed to date or whatever until she's 21 and some annoyed friend thought it would be funny to play a bit of a joke on Mommy and Daddy?
2014-04-18 06:41:16 AM  
3 votes:
If you're not thinking that Amazon is protecting themselves and customer privacy by awaiting the subpoena and doing this by the book, then you're just being a reactionary "OMG think of the children!" type.

I don't think anybody is in favor of harassing an 8 y/o, but we all should be glad that big time companies with the personal info of millions of customers in their data bases require legal motions before giving that information up. Get the subpoena, mystery solved....
2014-04-18 06:06:11 AM  
3 votes:

Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.


Yes, but in my mind this is pretty similar to the ancient trope of sticking a dagger in someone's front door.  I'm usually dead set against nervous parents, but I can't blame them for considering this might be a real threat.

Also, she's 8-years-old.  This doesn't sound like an 8-year-old's prank.  Maybe a 13-year-old's.  I doubt she goes to school with people that age.  No, it sounds like an adult doing this, which means someone who probably knows who she is.
2014-04-18 02:02:16 AM  
3 votes:

Yes this is dog: mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.

It also washes Amazon's hands of any liability if the jerk who sent the condoms ends up having a little 'accident.'


Exactly,

I work for a major telco as a tech manager.  And I get tons of esclated calls about "you need to tell me the text messages, emails, what apps they are using etc"

And I always say "if your life is in danger then call the cops and have them call me" .

If I gave out the information I would be liable as the company if something happened.

The other day I got a call because a lady had her text message to voice reading turned on.

Turned out she was sitting on the couch with her husband and her lover texted her and the phone read a pretty explicit text message, and she was going to sue me, the company, and Samsung, because of her own stupidity.
2014-04-18 01:46:53 AM  
3 votes:

mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.


It also washes Amazon's hands of any liability if the jerk who sent the condoms ends up having a little 'accident.'
2014-04-18 01:32:28 AM  
3 votes:
I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.
2014-04-18 01:13:44 AM  
3 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


And a kid can't get a hold of a parent's credit card? My guess is the mean girls at her school did it. It sounds like something a group of mean pre-adolescent girls would do thinking it would embarrass the other person.
2014-04-18 01:03:27 AM  
3 votes:

propasaurus: Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.

Amazon gift card


She might have the same name as her whore mom, and mom is pinning it on the kid
2014-04-18 12:08:02 AM  
3 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


Amazon gift card
2014-04-18 09:48:35 AM  
2 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.

They were sent to an 8 yr old girl...thats pedo...thats beyond being a Brony.

And, Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....


Yes, they would.  Because they'd have a warrant.

No warrant, no info.  Amazon's totally in the right here; you never, ever, ever give out personally identifying information unless you're legally compelled to.
2014-04-18 06:38:55 AM  
2 votes:

nymersic: Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.

Yes, but in my mind this is pretty similar to the ancient trope of sticking a dagger in someone's front door.  I'm usually dead set against nervous parents, but I can't blame them for considering this might be a real threat.

Also, she's 8-years-old.  This doesn't sound like an 8-year-old's prank.  Maybe a 13-year-old's.  I doubt she goes to school with people that age.  No, it sounds like an adult doing this, which means someone who probably knows who she is.


Yes, it absolutely does sound like an 8 year old's prank.  That's 2nd or 3rd grade, and I can still remember the ruckus it stirred up at school when I was that age and some kids had gotten a bunch of condoms and brought them to school.  As you might imagine, there were condoms being flipped like rubber bands across the cafeteria.

The 13 year old knows what a condom is and might well be using them.
2014-04-18 03:40:56 AM  
2 votes:

ReverendJasen: pyrotek85: Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.

The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information?  I have the right to know that.  She's a minor.  I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number.  A simple name is fine.


I have to disagree. I don't understand why being a minor has anything to do with it. I would not expect nor think I have a right to any information from a merchant about another customer, even his or her name. If you want to make it a legal issue, that's another matter entirely.
2014-04-18 02:43:01 AM  
2 votes:

propasaurus: Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.

Amazon gift card


Even easier: lazy parents have Amazon password on auto-complete in browser.
2014-04-18 02:34:38 AM  
2 votes:

Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.


Exactly - you have a choice: teach yr kids to laugh at life and it's eccentricities, or teach them to be drama queens who over-react to trivia, and have no perspective when something really worth worrying about pops over the horizon
2014-04-18 02:30:23 AM  
2 votes:

pyrotek85: Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.


The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information?  I have the right to know that.  She's a minor.  I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number.  A simple name is fine.
2014-04-18 02:25:29 AM  
2 votes:

pyrotek85: theflatline: Yes this is dog: mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.

It also washes Amazon's hands of any liability if the jerk who sent the condoms ends up having a little 'accident.'

Exactly,

I work for a major telco as a tech manager.  And I get tons of esclated calls about "you need to tell me the text messages, emails, what apps they are using etc"

And I always say "if your life is in danger then call the cops and have them call me" .

If I gave out the information I would be liable as the company if something happened.

The other day I got a call because a lady had her text message to voice reading turned on.

Turned out she was sitting on the couch with her husband and her lover texted her and the phone read a pretty explicit text message, and she was going to sue me, the company, and Samsung, because of her own stupidity.

Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.


Exactly, we turn over records as soon as court/lawyer contacts us with proper documentation.

I had a call yesterday.  Customer lost her iphone(iphone customers the worst) and she said "you need to tell me where my phone is" I responded did she have her find my iphone app installed.  "no because I do not want people tracking me" Yet she was asking us to do the same thing.
2014-04-18 02:24:08 AM  
2 votes:

theflatline: I am glad that you think that if you make an online purchase that companies can just release your information to anyone who calls in with a sob story.


I'm amused you think they can't do that.  We're not talking about Amazon releasing someone's personal shopping history, address, or credit card info.

If you mail something to another person (especially a minor child), you should not have any expectation of privacy or anonymity.  They have the right to know who is sending shiat to them, and the company sending it should tell them.
2014-04-18 01:59:08 AM  
2 votes:

Jz4p: Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena.


Sure.
They're still cockbags for not voluntarily helping and deserve to be publicly trashed for it.
2014-04-18 01:53:45 AM  
2 votes:

knedgecko: It's condoms, not a land mine. Explain to the kid that they are something for adults and move on.


Or you could make these nice balloon animals.

elitedaily.com
2014-04-18 01:28:29 AM  
2 votes:

Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.


I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.
2014-04-18 01:07:54 AM  
2 votes:
Even more bothersome, Angelides said, is that her daughter's uncommon name is spelled correctly on the box.
A Google search has 15,000,000 entries
/Sounds like a stripper name
2014-04-17 11:46:43 PM  
2 votes:
Hey, free condoms.
2014-04-17 11:29:10 PM  
2 votes:

phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.


Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.
2014-04-17 10:51:58 PM  
2 votes:
Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.
2014-04-17 10:26:50 PM  
2 votes:
Yes, because if there is one thing Amazon values above all else, it is the privacy of its customers.
2014-04-18 08:11:39 PM  
1 votes:
Craigslist and most other internet marketplaces do the same thing. You don't just had out names willy-nilly, even if your shiat got stolen, otherwise everyone will suddenly have a son or daughter who happened to get sent something salacious. Revealing names to people of unknown legitimacy actually opens Amazon up to a nasty civil suit; it's not like you can check their ID over the phone, and pretexting and account hijacking isn't exactly an unknown thing these days.

P.S.: DAs aren't the only ones that can request subpoenas, anyone can. You can file a small claims case and try to convince a judge to issue a civil subpoena and continue the case, which is just as ironclad as any criminal subpoena. They have a police report, so they should be able to request a hearing as early as possible; if that's not enough to convince him, they'll just have to wait for further incidents, if they materialize. (I'm betting they will, from pranksters all over the world, since this story made national news.) It's not like Amazon is going to move to quash it, though they have the choice of notifying the person of interest in case they wish to respond first. It's no different from the shiat the RIAA and MPAA pulls on ISPs, on a much smaller scale.
2014-04-18 04:46:27 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: DerpHerder: fusillade762: DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.

I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?

I must have been mistaken there are in fact no such laws.

Welcome to Fark. Admitting wrongness is the first step.


All joking aside I wonder if any states still have anticontroception laws on the books.
/Looks toward the south
2014-04-18 03:46:00 PM  
1 votes:

QT_3.14159: If anyone is at fault here, it's the police for not just getting the damn subpoena issued.  It's not that big of a deal, it's probably just a prank, but really, just take care of it and everyone can go home and stop talking about it.


Why is the fault of the police? Under suspicion of what crime do they need to obtain a subpoena? Harassement? Unless they have more compelling evidence of other things happening other than a box of condoms, they've got no crime. No crime, no suspicion of a crime, no subpoena and Amazon has no legal right to be forced to turn over anything about one of their customers without one.
2014-04-18 12:36:40 PM  
1 votes:
Yeah, mom is "horrified" and irrationally scared someone is watching her daughter, yet contacts the news about it.  All this kind of nonsense is just ridiculous and tired of reading about it.  I blame CNN with this 24 obsession with news, so now everyone is looking for a new "story", and to fill the time, this stupid stuff is publicized constantly.
2014-04-18 12:24:49 PM  
1 votes:
How badly do we really need to know who the anonymous sender is? It's probably a stupid, childish prank.

Have we considered that the option exists to just throw them away and move on with life?
2014-04-18 12:04:05 PM  
1 votes:
"We release account and other personal information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law (read: when presented with a subpoena or warrant); ... "

... or to any of the NSA servers sitting in row 3 rack A in our data center.
2014-04-18 10:02:08 AM  
1 votes:

Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.


If I were the parent, I'd still want to know who sent them and would have an attorney involved.  But, I don't think I would to the AW route these folks did.

Especially if there was a pervy ex S/O Drama Queen in somebody's past.
2014-04-18 09:44:51 AM  
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


You know they have prepaid credit cards now, right?  A sufficiently determined kid could just go to a grocery store, get a prepaid Visa, then go online and put in the order. Hell, kids have smartphones these days, so he could have done it right there in the store.
2014-04-18 08:31:37 AM  
1 votes:
My guess: somebody sent the kid a gift a while back, accidentally changed their default shipping address.
2014-04-18 08:20:19 AM  
1 votes:

RobSeace: NickelP: When you check out there is a send as gift option that removes the account holders name from the packing slip iirc.

Except, no it doesn't... At least I've never had it do so, anyway! All it does is remove prices from the slip...


It also may remove the sender's address from the slip, but not name... I've always been able to see who sent me a gift, and everyone I've sent a gift to has been able to see it was from me... And, yes, they were all sent specifically as gifts via that "send as gift" option...
2014-04-18 08:16:36 AM  
1 votes:

NickelP: When you check out there is a send as gift option that removes the account holders name from the packing slip iirc.


Except, no it doesn't... At least I've never had it do so, anyway! All it does is remove prices from the slip...
2014-04-18 08:13:07 AM  
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....


Huh? Why would Amazon employees be in jail for doing their job?

I think you're skipping over some key logic here- If most law enforcement agencies would have the info by now, you can bet the house they obtained it because they issued a subpoena. How else would they get it? Go all Dirty Harry on Amazon's legal department?

In my mind, an investigator who hears of this incident and declines to file for the subpoena is way more at fault here than an amazon employee who merely stocks, files and delivers sealed packages. Should the investigators also be sitting in jail?
2014-04-18 08:09:38 AM  
1 votes:

Belias: fusillade762: Hey, free condoms.

I have to agree. Feel free to have anything from Amazon sent to my house. You can put whatever name you like on the package. Address it to my dog if you wish. I can find a use for just about anything, and if not, I have very large trash bins.

As to the whole 'providing condoms to a minor' thing, I don't think you've clearly thought that through.  Condoms are not a restricted item. A five year old can legally buy them at their local wal-mart if they so choose. Do we really want to go down the path of putting the condoms behind the counter?  Checking ID for purchase?  What shall the minimum age be?


i might be wrong but i think some areas actually have laws that you can not restrict condom sales based on age. i mean if someone wants to buy some telling them no probably won't make them not have sex, just have unprotected sex
2014-04-18 08:05:18 AM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: Hey, free condoms.


I have to agree. Feel free to have anything from Amazon sent to my house. You can put whatever name you like on the package. Address it to my dog if you wish. I can find a use for just about anything, and if not, I have very large trash bins.

As to the whole 'providing condoms to a minor' thing, I don't think you've clearly thought that through.  Condoms are not a restricted item. A five year old can legally buy them at their local wal-mart if they so choose. Do we really want to go down the path of putting the condoms behind the counter?  Checking ID for purchase?  What shall the minimum age be?
2014-04-18 07:52:04 AM  
1 votes:

Fafai: FDR Jones: ReverendJasen: pyrotek85: Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.

The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information?  I have the right to know that.  She's a minor.  I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number.  A simple name is fine.

I have to disagree. I don't understand why being a minor has anything to do with it. I would not expect nor think I have a right to any information from a merchant about another customer, even his or her name. If you want to make it a legal issue, that's another matter entirely.

It's pretty farked up if you can't get the name of someone who sent you something. At that point they have involved you in the transaction.


You can. Amazon isn't a detective service though. When they get a crazy call like 'help someone sent my 8 Year old condoms!' They have no idea if someone did, or maybe someone send them to your wife, or any other number of things. They are taking the stance of 'hey we will help for legit stuff, but we sure aren't going to send a detective out to figure out what is going on. Your police are for that. Call them. If this isn't serious enough for you to involve them then we won't release customer data. If your police look at the situation and conclude nothing was done that warrants us releasing customer data, then I am sorry we will agree with their professsional assessment.'

which is ya know, pretty damn reasonable. Lady needs to start nagging the police department.
2014-04-18 07:44:24 AM  
1 votes:

RobSeace: ReverendJasen: The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information? I have the right to know that. She's a minor. I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number. A simple name is fine.

What I don't understand is, every instance I know of where someone purchased a gift for someone else via Amazon, the senders name is revealed in the packing slip! I've bought gifts for others many times, and they knew it was sent by me... I've had gifts bought for me by others, and I knew who sent it, because it's printed right there on the slip... So, uh, WTF is going on here?! Is there some super secret option to send gifts anonymously that I don't know about? Or, is it just a case of someone created an Amazon account with an obviously fake name like Joe Blow, and that is the name that shows up on the condom packing slip? In which case, I'm guessing they're asking Amazon to do deeper digging into who it really is, by checking credit card info and such...


When you check out there is a send as gift option that removes the account holders name from the packing slip iirc.
2014-04-18 07:34:46 AM  
1 votes:

ReverendJasen: The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information? I have the right to know that. She's a minor. I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number. A simple name is fine.


What I don't understand is, every instance I know of where someone purchased a gift for someone else via Amazon, the senders name is revealed in the packing slip! I've bought gifts for others many times, and they knew it was sent by me... I've had gifts bought for me by others, and I knew who sent it, because it's printed right there on the slip... So, uh, WTF is going on here?! Is there some super secret option to send gifts anonymously that I don't know about? Or, is it just a case of someone created an Amazon account with an obviously fake name like Joe Blow, and that is the name that shows up on the condom packing slip? In which case, I'm guessing they're asking Amazon to do deeper digging into who it really is, by checking credit card info and such...
2014-04-18 07:16:35 AM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty: 1. If the parents go to the cops, why wouldn't cops and the da get a subpoena?

2. I can buy Amazon gift cards from Walmart for cash.

3. I can get an Amazon gift card from CoinStar for cash.


1-I am guessing the cops are being lazy.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/04/return_to_sender_condoms _ deliv.html
Ms. Angelides then called police about the alleged harassment, but claims that they closed the case without finding out who the perpetrator was.

2-Don't you need an account to use the gift cards?
2014-04-18 07:06:32 AM  
1 votes:
I'm surprised nobody has considered that the kid could have ordered them for herself. As pointed out, kids can use their parents' cards. Younger kids learn most of what they know about sex from older kids, and most of that is intentionally wrong. Older kids find out there's a boy she has a crush on, tease her about needing condoms.
Of course, it's going to take a subpoena to find this out.
2014-04-18 06:55:53 AM  
1 votes:

Skr: I read the family's last name as Astroglide instead of Angelides  at first skim of the article. Added a different spin to the story.


Angelides could mean something even weirder though.


My first thoughts as well.

If her daughter didn't know what condoms were before her mother ran shreiking to the media, she certainly will now. Bonus, all her classmates will too.
2014-04-18 06:48:31 AM  
1 votes:

Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.


They were sent to an 8 yr old girl...thats pedo...thats beyond being a Brony.

And, Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....
2014-04-18 06:18:31 AM  
1 votes:

DerpHerder: fusillade762: DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.

I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?

I must have been mistaken there are in fact no such laws.


Welcome to Fark. Admitting wrongness is the first step.
2014-04-18 05:34:34 AM  
1 votes:

Gawdzila: I imagine the concern is more about the person who sent them and why, not just the package itself


Yep

If it's an adult sending condoms to an 8 year old child I want to know that person's name and why they sent them to a little kid.
2014-04-18 05:13:48 AM  
1 votes:

knedgecko: It's condoms, not a land mine. Explain to the kid that they are something for adults and move on.


I imagine the concern is more about the person who sent them and why, not just the package itself.
2014-04-18 05:12:26 AM  
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: Yes this is dog: Who orders condoms from Amazon?

Let's imagine for a moment that you're a child in the 8-10 years old range. How do you think most store personnel would react if you tried to buy a pack of condoms?

Whereas ordering them online isn't going to get you a crapload of questioning from concerned adults.


Until mom and dad check their Amazon recent orders list. :O
2014-04-18 05:10:17 AM  
1 votes:

Yes this is dog: Who orders condoms from Amazon?


Let's imagine for a moment that you're a child in the 8-10 years old range. How do you think most store personnel would react if you tried to buy a pack of condoms?

Whereas ordering them online isn't going to get you a crapload of questioning from concerned adults.
2014-04-18 04:54:11 AM  
1 votes:

theflatline: propasaurus: Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.

Amazon gift card

She might have the same name as her whore mom, and mom is pinning it on the kid


Someone didn't RTFA.
2014-04-18 04:52:30 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Y'all do realize that the Postal Service delivers things with no return address all the time, right? There's nothing unique about Amazon's involvement in this. The pervert could just as easily have bought a couple packs of condoms cash, put them in some packaging with the correct address and adequate postage, and sent it anonymously that way. Or just anonymously stuffed them in the mailbox in the middle of the night. Corporations are often the source of evil, but not always.


And on that topic, couldn't the beleaguered family seal the box, go to the carrier (UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc.) and have it returned?  When I worked for UPS the deliveree has the option to return it if the item is wrong, broken or whathaveyou.

If anything, they should enclose a thank you to the anonymous for raising the spectre of sexual education to their young girl, and prepare her for puberty with a frank discussion involving birds and bees.
2014-04-18 04:19:51 AM  
1 votes:

Fafai: HotWingAgenda: Y'all do realize that the Postal Service delivers things with no return address all the time, right? There's nothing unique about Amazon's involvement in this. The pervert could just as easily have bought a couple packs of condoms cash, put them in some packaging with the correct address and adequate postage, and sent it anonymously that way. Or just anonymously stuffed them in the mailbox in the middle of the night. Corporations are often the source of evil, but not always.

But that would honestly be anonymous with no account attached to it because it's a free service. there wouldn't be any way to identify the sender.


Postage isn't free where I come from. And I can think of at least one convicted mass murderer that will tell you there are ways to track down the senders of anonymous packages.
2014-04-18 04:14:58 AM  
1 votes:

FDR Jones: I have to disagree. I don't understand why being a minor has anything to do with it. I would not expect nor think I have a right to any information from a merchant about another customer, even his or her name. If you want to make it a legal issue, that's another matter entirely.


It's not about getting information about a customer.  It's finding out who is secretly sending shiat to my home.
Why is it important to protect the anonymity of that person?
2014-04-18 03:54:19 AM  
1 votes:
Y'all do realize that the Postal Service delivers things with no return address all the time, right? There's nothing unique about Amazon's involvement in this. The pervert could just as easily have bought a couple packs of condoms cash, put them in some packaging with the correct address and adequate postage, and sent it anonymously that way. Or just anonymously stuffed them in the mailbox in the middle of the night. Corporations are often the source of evil, but not always.
2014-04-18 02:46:17 AM  
1 votes:

Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says.  Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena.  That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.


It would be SUPER cool if they helped the mother get a subpoena (some sort of easy readme.txt etc...)
I support Amazons stand, but it is not illegal to help them legally.

// Kinda agree with the ideas (previously posted by others) that its probably another kid with an amazon gift card
/ Wonders how much my local cost for a helium tank would be, that would be funnier than my childhood use of condoms (water bombs)
2014-04-18 02:24:29 AM  
1 votes:

FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.


It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.
2014-04-18 02:06:09 AM  
1 votes:
my theory is the dad sent them. Hes having and affair, needed some condoms, but couldnt ensure that hed get to the package before his wife.. so he sent it anonymously in his daughters name. If he gets the package first, great. but if not.. Hey must be some perv from the internets. perfect excuse.
2014-04-18 02:05:06 AM  
1 votes:

ReverendJasen: Jz4p: Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena.

Sure.
They're still cockbags for not voluntarily helping and deserve to be publicly trashed for it.


IF they gave up the info, and the parents harass, kill the person, or whatever then Amazon is liable.

I am glad that you think that if you make an online purchase that companies can just release your information to anyone who calls in with a sob story.
2014-04-18 01:51:57 AM  
1 votes:
FTFHL:

Eight-year-old girl gets surprise package... It contains two boxes of condoms... Amazon won't tell her parents who the anonymous sender is...


2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-04-18 01:44:21 AM  
1 votes:
Sounds like the family needs to lawyer it up. Staten island? not really surprised the detectives don't really give a shait.
2014-04-18 01:30:54 AM  
1 votes:
My brother had a weird incident a few years ago. He got a rather large charge on his debit card that he didn't make. Several days later, a box arrived at our parent's house, addressed to him (he was in his early 20's and going to school and hadn't lived with the folks for a few years). The box contained a high-end pocket pussy, a nice watch, some personal lubricants, and a box of "fancy" condoms. He never did figure out who did it (or so he claims). The bank ate most of the charge, but my mom had to take the box of goodies to our local, very-small-town bank and turn them in. I kind of wish I could have been there to see that.
2014-04-18 01:27:25 AM  
1 votes:

Yes this is dog: Who orders condoms from Amazon?


They go with the lube.
2014-04-18 01:23:10 AM  
1 votes:
Well, it could have been worse.  Amazon actually sells this stuff too:
i.imgur.com
2014-04-18 01:15:21 AM  
1 votes:
Who orders condoms from Amazon?
2014-04-18 01:09:26 AM  
1 votes:
Don't worry. He's probably just flirting.
2014-04-18 01:09:17 AM  
1 votes:
Maybe it was a gift from Fyre TV?
2014-04-18 01:05:57 AM  
1 votes:
Can you get a suponea without the cops and/or the DA involved? I have no clue.
2014-04-18 01:03:14 AM  
1 votes:
This is one geographical oddity, two hours from any where.
2014-04-17 11:25:16 PM  
1 votes:
Just tell her they're individually wrapped balloons, rent a helium tank for the day and have a blast.
 
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