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(CBS New York)   Eight-year-old girl gets surprise package from Amazon in the mail. Fark: It contains two boxes of condoms and Amazon won't tell her parents who the anonymous sender is, unless they get a a subpoena. Cops: It "might" be considered harassment   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 148
    More: Scary, Amazon, CBS, tags, Christine Angelides, subpoenas, harassment  
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5415 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Apr 2014 at 12:58 AM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-18 07:52:04 AM

Fafai: FDR Jones: ReverendJasen: pyrotek85: Yeah I don't understand the Amazon hate here. It's not like anyone's life is in immediate danger, so they should go through the proper channels and procedures. It shouldn't be easy for them to just fork over personal information like that.

The name of the person who's sending my 8 year old daughter stuff in the mail is personal information?  I have the right to know that.  She's a minor.  I don't need an address, SSN, or credit card number.  A simple name is fine.

I have to disagree. I don't understand why being a minor has anything to do with it. I would not expect nor think I have a right to any information from a merchant about another customer, even his or her name. If you want to make it a legal issue, that's another matter entirely.

It's pretty farked up if you can't get the name of someone who sent you something. At that point they have involved you in the transaction.


You can. Amazon isn't a detective service though. When they get a crazy call like 'help someone sent my 8 Year old condoms!' They have no idea if someone did, or maybe someone send them to your wife, or any other number of things. They are taking the stance of 'hey we will help for legit stuff, but we sure aren't going to send a detective out to figure out what is going on. Your police are for that. Call them. If this isn't serious enough for you to involve them then we won't release customer data. If your police look at the situation and conclude nothing was done that warrants us releasing customer data, then I am sorry we will agree with their professsional assessment.'

which is ya know, pretty damn reasonable. Lady needs to start nagging the police department.
 
2014-04-18 07:52:10 AM
Since it was a girl and involved condoms, I suspect we are safe in assuming it was not a priest.
 
2014-04-18 08:00:41 AM
I'm not going to say it's creepy.

That does without saying.
 
2014-04-18 08:04:53 AM

theflatline: ReverendJasen: Jz4p: Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena.

Sure.
They're still cockbags for not voluntarily helping and deserve to be publicly trashed for it.

IF they gave up the info, and the parents harass, kill the person, or whatever then Amazon is liable.

I am glad that you think that if you make an online purchase that companies can just release your information to anyone who calls in with a sob story.


First, no, they aren't liable.
Secondly, I do believe that if I ship a package to someone they should be able to know who sent it.
 
2014-04-18 08:05:18 AM

fusillade762: Hey, free condoms.


I have to agree. Feel free to have anything from Amazon sent to my house. You can put whatever name you like on the package. Address it to my dog if you wish. I can find a use for just about anything, and if not, I have very large trash bins.

As to the whole 'providing condoms to a minor' thing, I don't think you've clearly thought that through.  Condoms are not a restricted item. A five year old can legally buy them at their local wal-mart if they so choose. Do we really want to go down the path of putting the condoms behind the counter?  Checking ID for purchase?  What shall the minimum age be?
 
2014-04-18 08:09:38 AM

Belias: fusillade762: Hey, free condoms.

I have to agree. Feel free to have anything from Amazon sent to my house. You can put whatever name you like on the package. Address it to my dog if you wish. I can find a use for just about anything, and if not, I have very large trash bins.

As to the whole 'providing condoms to a minor' thing, I don't think you've clearly thought that through.  Condoms are not a restricted item. A five year old can legally buy them at their local wal-mart if they so choose. Do we really want to go down the path of putting the condoms behind the counter?  Checking ID for purchase?  What shall the minimum age be?


i might be wrong but i think some areas actually have laws that you can not restrict condom sales based on age. i mean if someone wants to buy some telling them no probably won't make them not have sex, just have unprotected sex
 
2014-04-18 08:13:07 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....


Huh? Why would Amazon employees be in jail for doing their job?

I think you're skipping over some key logic here- If most law enforcement agencies would have the info by now, you can bet the house they obtained it because they issued a subpoena. How else would they get it? Go all Dirty Harry on Amazon's legal department?

In my mind, an investigator who hears of this incident and declines to file for the subpoena is way more at fault here than an amazon employee who merely stocks, files and delivers sealed packages. Should the investigators also be sitting in jail?
 
2014-04-18 08:16:36 AM

NickelP: When you check out there is a send as gift option that removes the account holders name from the packing slip iirc.


Except, no it doesn't... At least I've never had it do so, anyway! All it does is remove prices from the slip...
 
2014-04-18 08:20:19 AM

RobSeace: NickelP: When you check out there is a send as gift option that removes the account holders name from the packing slip iirc.

Except, no it doesn't... At least I've never had it do so, anyway! All it does is remove prices from the slip...


It also may remove the sender's address from the slip, but not name... I've always been able to see who sent me a gift, and everyone I've sent a gift to has been able to see it was from me... And, yes, they were all sent specifically as gifts via that "send as gift" option...
 
2014-04-18 08:24:17 AM

fusillade762: DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.

I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?


If it was illegal to deliver condo,s to a minor, a minor could not accept the package. Much like with an alcohol shipment, a person of legal age with ID would have been required to recieve the package.
 
2014-04-18 08:30:08 AM

theflatline: Yes this is dog: mrlewish: By refusing to release without a subpoena Amazon is actually helping the couple. Hint, hint, Amazon wants a subpoena served so they can cross all the Ts and dot all the Is so what ever happens to the dirt bag that sent it sticks instead of being suppressed should a case arise.

It also washes Amazon's hands of any liability if the jerk who sent the condoms ends up having a little 'accident.'

Exactly,

I work for a major telco as a tech manager.  And I get tons of esclated calls about "you need to tell me the text messages, emails, what apps they are using etc"

And I always say "if your life is in danger then call the cops and have them call me" .

If I gave out the information I would be liable as the company if something happened.

The other day I got a call because a lady had her text message to voice reading turned on.

Turned out she was sitting on the couch with her husband and her lover texted her and the phone read a pretty explicit text message, and she was going to sue me, the company, and Samsung, because of her own stupidity.


This. You wouldn't believe the shiat my last client went through to ensure they dotted every i and crossed every t with the email policy.

A few years earlier a married gal was having an affair with a guy at the office. Hubby figured it out, but they had deleted the emails. The company was shocked they had to turn over the salacious (oh, they were apparently doozies - she liked sending nude pics and masturbation vids) from her company phone. They had already wiped some as 'inappropriate material' and got sued by the hubby. He got a fair chunk of change from them. After that the lawyers made sure that stuff was archived safely.

Her? She didn't do so bad either, except she lost the lawsuit over a couple pics and vids ending up public. She 'was forced to quit her job in shame' when the company failed to protect her privacy and the photos made the rounds in the office. Fortunately for the company, their phone policy was a lot more strict, and she had no standing because every corporate phone was considered corporate property with no expectation of privacy. The company had the right to confiscate the phone at any time and disseminate the contents as it saw fit, blah blah blah.

Hilarious.

/she was a spiteful hag
//the guy she was being filled by was a jerk
///he got fired for a 'moral' violation
////slashies!
 
2014-04-18 08:31:37 AM
My guess: somebody sent the kid a gift a while back, accidentally changed their default shipping address.
 
2014-04-18 08:40:45 AM
Wanted for questioning

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-18 08:43:11 AM

phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.


We used to call a pharmacy and ask if they would sell sell condoms to a 12yr old. When they said no, we would then ask if they had any large balloons.  Sometimes they would laugh, others were just disgusted...  mixed reviews.  I believe we got this idea from a stand-up from the mid 80's.
 
2014-04-18 08:59:41 AM
Did it also come with an acceptance letter from Penn State?
 
2014-04-18 09:00:08 AM
WHY WONT THE FBI INVESTIGATE WHO SIGNED ME UP FOR A 'TEEN BEAT' MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTION WHEN I WAS IN THE 7TH GRADE
 
2014-04-18 09:09:31 AM
While I appreciate the legal aspects and see that Amazon is acting responsibly, I don't really like the idea that people are not legally entitled to know who is sending them things.
 
2014-04-18 09:12:36 AM
I don't see why Amazon won't just tell the people who sent them the package, it doesn't seem like you have any right to privacy to send people crap in the mail especially when it comes to a private company's records they can do with them what they please.
 
2014-04-18 09:34:54 AM
Anyone else think for a moment that it was a mix up? And this whole thing is blown out of portion? On Amazon's end it may not been a mix up, but someone can easily mess up an address. Sounds like typical Staten Island parents getting all in a fuss. 

/not a parent
//understands safety concerns
///still dumb regardless
 
2014-04-18 09:43:29 AM

serial_crusher: My guess: somebody sent the kid a gift a while back, accidentally changed their default shipping address.


Most likely
 
2014-04-18 09:44:51 AM

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


You know they have prepaid credit cards now, right?  A sufficiently determined kid could just go to a grocery store, get a prepaid Visa, then go online and put in the order. Hell, kids have smartphones these days, so he could have done it right there in the store.
 
2014-04-18 09:48:35 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.

They were sent to an 8 yr old girl...thats pedo...thats beyond being a Brony.

And, Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....


Yes, they would.  Because they'd have a warrant.

No warrant, no info.  Amazon's totally in the right here; you never, ever, ever give out personally identifying information unless you're legally compelled to.
 
2014-04-18 10:01:49 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.

They were sent to an 8 yr old girl...thats pedo...thats beyond being a Brony.

And, Amazon is wrong not to release the info on the sender. Most law enforcement agencies would have that info by now...or Amazon employees sitting in jail as accessories....


Looks like the fark legal eagles are out in force today, completely wrong as usual
 
2014-04-18 10:02:08 AM

Poowaddins: I am sick to death of the "But won't someone think of the precious snowflakes!" bandwagon in America these days. My parents would have laughed their arses off and donated the condoms to the health department's bucket-o-free condoms.


If I were the parent, I'd still want to know who sent them and would have an attorney involved.  But, I don't think I would to the AW route these folks did.

Especially if there was a pervy ex S/O Drama Queen in somebody's past.
 
2014-04-18 10:21:26 AM

mod3072: My brother had a weird incident a few years ago. He got a rather large charge on his debit card that he didn't make. Several days later, a box arrived at our parent's house, addressed to him (he was in his early 20's and going to school and hadn't lived with the folks for a few years). The box contained a high-end pocket pussy, a nice watch, some personal lubricants, and a box of "fancy" condoms. He never did figure out who did it (or so he claims). The bank ate most of the charge, but my mom had to take the box of goodies to our local, very-small-town bank and turn them in. I kind of wish I could have been there to see that.


Yeah, I got one of those self-winding watches, a DVD, and some lube in a package. It turns out that those watches can only absorb so much energy before they catch fire. I should have taken the warning when it started glowing in the dark.  It wasn't supposed to.
 
2014-04-18 10:44:40 AM

liam76: RoyBatty: 1. If the parents go to the cops, why wouldn't cops and the da get a subpoena?

2. I can buy Amazon gift cards from Walmart for cash.

3. I can get an Amazon gift card from CoinStar for cash.

1-I am guessing the cops are being lazy.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/04/return_to_sender_condoms _ deliv.html
Ms. Angelides then called police about the alleged harassment, but claims that they closed the case without finding out who the perpetrator was.

2-Don't you need an account to use the gift cards?


I know I send my young relatives gift cards for birthdays and stuff often, ....
I suspect it's not too hard to open an account without a credit card just to use a gift card...
 
2014-04-18 10:56:09 AM
For those of you wondering how a kid could order something from Amazon in a prank-situation:
I've got my amazon login saved on my computer, and all my billing and credit card info saved on my account.  I don't have to enter anything at all when I order something.  I would imagine that a lot of people do this too.  So I can see a kid easily ordering something while their parent isn't right there in the room watching.
And this seems like exactly the kind of prank an 8-10 year old kid would pull.  I remember being that age, and kids tittering about all kind of weird, largely false, sexual info.  If one kid learns what condoms are, they share it with everyone, and then everyone whispers about how  condoms are used for  sex.  Some kid looks up "condom" on the home computer, gets a bright idea, and 5 mins later the prank is in motion.


/csb
When I was around that age, some of the guys in my class, who had been routinely picking on me, called my dad's house and left what was, to 8-10 year olds, a vulgar message.  Unfortunately for them, I was at my mom's house that weekend, so my dad heard the message first, called up the kids' parents--because the little dipshiats said their names, they started the message with "this is jack, kyle, and dumbfark"--and explained that their kids were idiots.
The message was actually pretty funny, involving a lot of stupid words like "gazongas" and other made up "vulgarities."  Probably one of the best things my dad ever did was to play the message for me (he mentioned the whole incident and I asked to hear it; I was curious) while just dying with laughter.  It was a powerful lesson for me, in terms of just how stupid and ineffective those guys were being.  Completely destroyed the power those guys were starting to build over me with their bullying.  Next time they tried to fark with me, I pointed out that at least I wasn't dumb enough to say my own name on a crank call, and then they never talked to me again.
/csb
 
2014-04-18 11:17:06 AM
In other news, "Gianna Angelides" has broken into the Top 10 on Google Image Search.
 
2014-04-18 12:04:05 PM
"We release account and other personal information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law (read: when presented with a subpoena or warrant); ... "

... or to any of the NSA servers sitting in row 3 rack A in our data center.
 
2014-04-18 12:24:49 PM
How badly do we really need to know who the anonymous sender is? It's probably a stupid, childish prank.

Have we considered that the option exists to just throw them away and move on with life?
 
2014-04-18 12:36:40 PM
Yeah, mom is "horrified" and irrationally scared someone is watching her daughter, yet contacts the news about it.  All this kind of nonsense is just ridiculous and tired of reading about it.  I blame CNN with this 24 obsession with news, so now everyone is looking for a new "story", and to fill the time, this stupid stuff is publicized constantly.
 
2014-04-18 01:11:45 PM
Lets think about that.

Unless you live in bufu Idaho and there's only one drugstore in town, it seems a lot riskier to ship stuff to your daghter vs. getting it at the drugstore.
 
2014-04-18 01:28:26 PM

Headso: when it comes to a private company's records they can do with them what they please


When it comes to a private company's records, if they have a privacy policy in place and don't conform to it, they become very easy to sue.
 
2014-04-18 01:53:20 PM

Bathia_Mapes: phaseolus: Sounds like a prank a 10 year old would pull. It'll be a kid or a couple of kids at her school who did this.

Possibly, but they would have to have access to a debit or credit card to order it from Amazon.

If is someone at her school then it's more likely an adult.


Because moms never leave there peruses alone in the house.
 
2014-04-18 01:54:57 PM

oukewldave: Yeah, mom is "horrified" and irrationally scared someone is watching her daughter, yet contacts the news about it.  All this kind of nonsense is just ridiculous and tired of reading about it.  I blame CNN with this 24 obsession with news, so now everyone is looking for a new "story", and to fill the time, this stupid stuff is publicized constantly.


Or worse, tweets.
 
2014-04-18 02:03:07 PM
Harassment? Really? Some shiat-for-brains cop actually said that with a single package in the mail?

Guessing the only words he knows the true meanings of are; break time, tater tots, and donuts.
 
2014-04-18 02:21:45 PM

LikeALeafOnTheWind: my theory is the dad sent them. Hes having and affair, needed some condoms, but couldnt ensure that hed get to the package before his wife.. so he sent it anonymously in his daughters name. If he gets the package first, great. but if not.. Hey must be some perv from the internets. perfect excuse.



There's a romcom moment in this.

Rob Schneider is an ordinary husband. Mortgage, Marriage, two great kids. But he's about to find out, that keeping his affair secret, isn't as easy as it looks!  *footage of condoms arriving and wife opening them*

Rob Schneider is, 'In the Amazon!'



Also, sending condoms is creepy, but really, has a crime occurred?
 
2014-04-18 03:06:58 PM
If anyone is at fault here, it's the police for not just getting the damn subpoena issued.  It's not that big of a deal, it's probably just a prank, but really, just take care of it and everyone can go home and stop talking about it.
 
2014-04-18 03:39:07 PM
Man, wait until she gets the dildo next week.
 
2014-04-18 03:46:00 PM

QT_3.14159: If anyone is at fault here, it's the police for not just getting the damn subpoena issued.  It's not that big of a deal, it's probably just a prank, but really, just take care of it and everyone can go home and stop talking about it.


Why is the fault of the police? Under suspicion of what crime do they need to obtain a subpoena? Harassement? Unless they have more compelling evidence of other things happening other than a box of condoms, they've got no crime. No crime, no suspicion of a crime, no subpoena and Amazon has no legal right to be forced to turn over anything about one of their customers without one.
 
2014-04-18 04:46:27 PM

fusillade762: DerpHerder: fusillade762: DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.

I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?

I must have been mistaken there are in fact no such laws.

Welcome to Fark. Admitting wrongness is the first step.


All joking aside I wonder if any states still have anticontroception laws on the books.
/Looks toward the south
 
2014-04-18 04:57:29 PM

Iblis824: fusillade762: DerpHerder: FormatSlacker: Jz4p: I don't care what TFA says. Amazon is well within their rights to not disclose that information without a subpoena. That said, with an 8 year old girl involved, someone should probably get on issuing one of those.

I'm cool with amazon not disclosing the information as long as we're clear that they are to be considered complicit and liable with respect to any developments in the case.  They can either say, "We had nothing to do with this, we are just an intermediate, here is the guy you want to talk to if you have any questions about the intent of the package" or they can accept joint responsiblity for shipping the condoms to the girl.  They don't get to do something on behalf of a third party, completely disavow responsibility for what they did, but then also refuse to name the responsible party they acted on behalf of.

It is a clear cut case of illegal delivery of condoms to a minor. Also the only thing that can compel evidence on a nonvoluntary basis is a... subpoena.

I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that one. Wouldn't Planned Parenthood be in jail if it were illegal to give condoms to minors?

If it was illegal to deliver condo,s to a minor, a minor could not accept the package. Much like with an alcohol shipment, a person of legal age with ID would have been required to recieve the package.


Glad to see we all agree no crime was committed. As farked as it is all that really needs to happen is for the police to investigate and get a subpoena. Hope this article helps that happen.
 
2014-04-18 05:32:27 PM
If no crime was committed, why would the police request a subpoena....?
 
2014-04-18 08:07:26 PM

poot_rootbeer: If no crime was committed, why would the police request a subpoena....?


To investigate if a crime has been committed by the individual who ordered the condoms and had them addressed to an 8 year old.
 
2014-04-18 08:11:39 PM
Craigslist and most other internet marketplaces do the same thing. You don't just had out names willy-nilly, even if your shiat got stolen, otherwise everyone will suddenly have a son or daughter who happened to get sent something salacious. Revealing names to people of unknown legitimacy actually opens Amazon up to a nasty civil suit; it's not like you can check their ID over the phone, and pretexting and account hijacking isn't exactly an unknown thing these days.

P.S.: DAs aren't the only ones that can request subpoenas, anyone can. You can file a small claims case and try to convince a judge to issue a civil subpoena and continue the case, which is just as ironclad as any criminal subpoena. They have a police report, so they should be able to request a hearing as early as possible; if that's not enough to convince him, they'll just have to wait for further incidents, if they materialize. (I'm betting they will, from pranksters all over the world, since this story made national news.) It's not like Amazon is going to move to quash it, though they have the choice of notifying the person of interest in case they wish to respond first. It's no different from the shiat the RIAA and MPAA pulls on ISPs, on a much smaller scale.
 
2014-04-18 09:59:09 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-19 02:03:04 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Hey, she's lucky it wasn't a bobcat.


s1.yimg.com
 
2014-04-19 08:31:16 AM

ongbok: It sounds like something a group of mean pre-adolescent girls would do thinking it would embarrass the other person.


THIS.
 
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