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(Washington Post)   The conservative lawyer who defended California's ban on gay marriage at the Supreme Court is at work on another project: planning his daughter's upcoming same-sex wedding ceremony   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 91
    More: Ironic, Supreme Court, opponents of same-sex marriage, United States federal judge, Ashley Lininger, legal standing, American Foundation for Equal Rights, Theodore B. Olson, Office of Legal Counsel  
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1588 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Apr 2014 at 5:24 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-17 04:32:56 PM  
It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.
 
2014-04-17 04:52:24 PM  
Awwwwkwaaarrd.
 
2014-04-17 05:01:23 PM  
Same old shiat.  Republican finds gay marriage morally objectionable....until his child comes out as gay.

IOW, fark all your families, but MINE is special!!

At least have the courage of your convictions and kick out and shun your kid, like Alan Keyes....or, better yet, don't be a bigoted asshole
 
2014-04-17 05:06:47 PM  
This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.
 
2014-04-17 05:12:44 PM  
A lawyer whoring their personal beliefs for a buck? The hell you say
 
2014-04-17 05:13:32 PM  
I'd imagine the ladies are planning the wedding and dad doesn't have much to do with it.
 
2014-04-17 05:24:39 PM  

James!: I'd imagine the ladies are planning the wedding and dad doesn't have much to do with it.


Don't stereotype. He may know where to get some faaaaaaabulous centerpiece arrangements.
 
2014-04-17 05:26:07 PM  
So he's a lawyer.  Yup, consistent with his belief in getting paid.
 
2014-04-17 05:26:21 PM  

Solkar: James!: I'd imagine the ladies are planning the wedding and dad doesn't have much to do with it.

Don't stereotype. He may know where to get some faaaaaaabulous centerpiece arrangements.


He's really trying to push lambs blood red and sacrificial cross brown as the color scheme.  The ladies want to go with something more springy.
 
2014-04-17 05:27:15 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Same old shiat.  Republican finds gay marriagepeople morally objectionable....until his child he comes out as gay.

 
2014-04-17 05:27:50 PM  
The fact there's some straight dudes out there who have gone antigay for pay isn't new.
 
2014-04-17 05:28:21 PM  

nmrsnr: This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.


The big news in the papers in Barbados when my wife and I were there on our honeymoon was a lawyer who was known as stridently "anti-buggery" having to defend someone accused of "crimes against nature".

What weirded me out the most was that it was written as a lighthearted, humorous news story that threw around some very prejudicial views and terms with gay abandon.

Othewise, wonderful country, Barbados.
 
2014-04-17 05:29:43 PM  

Killer Cars: The fact there's some straight dudes out there who have gone antigay for pay isn't new.


Oh, I dunno. Cooper was in the Reagan White House; I suspect he's held his anti-gay stance for quite some time.
 
2014-04-17 05:30:29 PM  

Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.


Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.
 
2014-04-17 05:30:36 PM  
In its limited ruling, the court sidestepped Cooper's argument that there is no constitutional right to same-sex marriage


Wait, what? He actually made that argument?

I missed the part where any marriage is a constitutional right.
 
2014-04-17 05:32:30 PM  

Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.


FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.
 
2014-04-17 05:34:43 PM  
Pro tip:  Lawyers are paid to argue the law and adhere to courtroom rules.  They are not paid to believe what they argue.
 
2014-04-17 05:41:05 PM  

Rent Party: Pro tip:  Lawyers are paid to argue the law and adhere to courtroom rules.  They are not paid to believe what they argue.


grumpfuff: FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

 
2014-04-17 05:43:18 PM  

grumpfuff: Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.


Fair enough, but there's a difference between thinking the states have a right to do that if they see fit and thinking states should exercise that right.  He might very well believe the latter, but it's not clear from that sentence.
 
2014-04-17 05:45:00 PM  

Last Man on Earth: grumpfuff: Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

Fair enough, but there's a difference between thinking the states have a right to do that if they see fit and thinking states should exercise that right.  He might very well believe the latter, but it's not clear from that sentence.


"had reason" implies that he thinks they should.
 
2014-04-17 05:45:17 PM  

grumpfuff: Rent Party: Pro tip:  Lawyers are paid to argue the law and adhere to courtroom rules.  They are not paid to believe what they argue.

grumpfuff: FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.


So discrimination is OK as long as it's at the state level.  Glad we got that cleared up.
 
2014-04-17 05:47:51 PM  

Last Man on Earth: grumpfuff: Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

Fair enough, but there's a difference between thinking the states have a right to do that if they see fit and thinking states should exercise that right.  He might very well believe the latter, but it's not clear from that sentence.


The word "reason" is what makes it sound clear to me. He thinks(or at least thought) there was a justification for not allowing gays to marry, when there isn't one.
 
2014-04-17 05:48:08 PM  

grumpfuff:

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.


Even if he believed that states had the right, and therefore wanted to defend their right to exclude same sex marriages, it does not necessarily mean that he is against same sex marriages.

I may believe that the state has the right to do something doesn't mean I think they should be doing something.

Yes, I'm probably giving him more of the benefit of the doubt than he deserves, but since we're talking law, innocent until proven guilty and all that.
 
2014-04-17 05:49:11 PM  

FatherChaos: grumpfuff: Rent Party: Pro tip:  Lawyers are paid to argue the law and adhere to courtroom rules.  They are not paid to believe what they argue.

grumpfuff: FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

So discrimination is OK as long as it's at the state level.  Glad we got that cleared up.


I was under the impression we had cleared that up years ago. State's rights and such.
 
2014-04-17 05:51:21 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Same old shiat.  Republican finds gay marriage morally objectionable....until his child comes out as gay.


Republicans are like this on every issue.

Welfare is handouts that make you lazy!! - Unless it's for me, then it's me getting back my hard earned money!!
 
2014-04-17 05:51:26 PM  

nmrsnr: grumpfuff:

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

Even if he believed that states had the right, and therefore wanted to defend their right to exclude same sex marriages, it does not necessarily mean that he is against same sex marriages.

I may believe that the state has the right to do something doesn't mean I think they should be doing something.

Yes, I'm probably giving him more of the benefit of the doubt than he deserves, but since we're talking law, innocent until proven guilty and all that.


grumpfuff: The word "reason" is what makes it sound clear to me. He thinks(or at least thought) there was a justification for not allowing gays to marry, when there isn't one.

 
2014-04-17 05:53:09 PM  

Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.


I never knew lawyers who defended suspected murderers were arguing that murdering was OK. I thought they usually argued their client didn't do it myself.
 
2014-04-17 05:58:55 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Same old shiat.  Republican finds gay marriage morally objectionable....until his child comes out as gay.

IOW, fark all your families, but MINE is special!!

At least have the courage of your convictions and kick out and shun your kid, like Alan Keyes....or, better yet, don't be a bigoted asshole


This is the exact reason gay activists encourage LGBT folks to come out! It's a good thing.
 
2014-04-17 06:00:17 PM  

nmrsnr: This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.


Wait until someone tells subby that some of the ACLU lawyers who defended neo-Nazis were Jewish.

Mind. Blown.
 
2014-04-17 06:03:22 PM  

gerrymander: nmrsnr: This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.

Wait until someone tells subby that some of the ACLU lawyers who defended neo-Nazis were Jewish.

Mind. Blown.


But they were defending their free speech not their views like this. Your analogy is not even close.
 
2014-04-17 06:08:26 PM  
Our legal system simply doesn't work if an asshole lawyer can't take a shiatty case on behalf of assholes, or defend shiatheads and their shiatty laws.  I can't fault this guy, even if his cause or client is abhorrent.  It is the system.  We need people to defend racists, cop killers, killer cops, abortionists and clinic bombers, and to defend these horrible laws passed by a body of knuckle dragging barely literate politicians and bigoted stupid voters while someone else advances the cause on the other side of the case.
 
2014-04-17 06:10:03 PM  

nmrsnr: grumpfuff:

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.

Even if he believed that states had the right, and therefore wanted to defend their right to exclude same sex marriages, it does not necessarily mean that he is against same sex marriages.

I may believe that the state has the right to do something doesn't mean I think they should be doing something.

Yes, I'm probably giving him more of the benefit of the doubt than he deserves, but since we're talking law, innocent until proven guilty and all that.


Sounds like the "but what he meant was" defense. Kind of like how bible beaters tell us their own interpretations of god's word, even though he's supposed to be infallible. She's a brave soul for still letting him be around this thing he's completely against.
 
2014-04-17 06:12:15 PM  
While it is true that lawyers are sometimes asked to argue positions in cases that they themselves don't particularly agree with, this is a fairly awful example.
 
2014-04-17 06:13:13 PM  

nmrsnr: This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.


WHAT?!?!  Next you're gonna tell me that they also defend clients that they know are guilty too, aren't you?
 
2014-04-17 06:15:45 PM  

nmrsnr: This just in: Lawyers sometimes defend interests that do not comport with their own ideologies.


fark him anyway, frankly.  Fighting to oppose someone's civil rights for money is no less reprehensible than doing it because you believe asshole things.
 
2014-04-17 06:25:43 PM  

grumpfuff: grumpfuff: The word "reason" is what makes it sound clear to me. He thinks(or at least thought) there was a justification for not allowing gays to marry, when there isn't one.


Even that isn't sufficient, at least to me. I could reasonably agree that the government may have both a right and a reason to regulate firearms (I'm really not trying to make this a gun rights thread, honestly, it's just the most obvious example I can come up with) and therefore want to defend a legitimate law, while disagreeing with the particular regulation itself.

Again, this is probably not the case here, but the quote doesn't necessarily demonstrate that.
 
2014-04-17 06:30:34 PM  

grumpfuff: Brostorm: Calmamity: It's different when it affects their families directly.

Just like abortion.

Just like every lawyer who defends an accused murderer is actually pro murder.

You are a complete moron.

FTFA:

Becker wrote that Cooper and his daughter spent hours discussing the case while it was ongoing and disagreed about Cooper's view that states had reason to enshrine the traditional definition of marriage in their constitutions and withhold the right from same-sex couples.


A lawyer who has never heard of the full faith and credit clause seems like a bad lawyer
 
2014-04-17 06:32:52 PM  

nmrsnr: grumpfuff: grumpfuff: The word "reason" is what makes it sound clear to me. He thinks(or at least thought) there was a justification for not allowing gays to marry, when there isn't one.

Even that isn't sufficient, at least to me. I could reasonably agree that the government may have both a right and a reason to regulate firearms (I'm really not trying to make this a gun rights thread, honestly, it's just the most obvious example I can come up with) and therefore want to defend a legitimate law, while disagreeing with the particular regulation itself.

Again, this is probably not the case here, but the quote doesn't necessarily demonstrate that.


Yes, but that quote wasn't from arguing a case, it was from talking to his daughter. If it was me, I would have added a "But I don't support those reasons," or something similar. Instead, it is implied he does actually agree with those reasons(whatever they are), but since I don't think any of the reasons are legitimate, I also don't think there are actual reasons for the states to do so.

To be blunt, if he took the case as a lawyer and did not actually believe it, I see no reason for that conversation to have ever happened, and instead would have been a "Sorry honey, daddy needs a pay check" or whatever.
 
2014-04-17 06:47:48 PM  
From these pages, the largest cause of the gay is Republican family members in government.
 
2014-04-17 06:59:26 PM  
to be fair it's a refreshing change of pace from the tide of articles about democrats who discovered their kids were lazy and went on to 'evolve' their stance on food stamps
 
2014-04-17 07:03:26 PM  
"Republican lawyer of the year,"  indeed.
 
2014-04-17 07:03:49 PM  
So he was just trying to save some money, then? Weddings are expensive.
 
2014-04-17 07:15:24 PM  
Why would anyone be surprised to find that lawyers are basically just litigation mercenaries?
 
2014-04-17 07:15:25 PM  
anyone read the reviews for Becker's book, they're brutal.
 
2014-04-17 07:31:21 PM  
Ah, another thread full of farkers who hate on lawyers because they don't understand that our adversarial system requires competent representation on both sides of even issue we don't like.
 
2014-04-17 07:37:52 PM  
This is what lawyers do. Support positions for $$$. Its called working.

Nevada's legislature meets for about 70 days every 2 years. Its all we need. At the 2015 session they will likely take steps to legalize both gay marriage and pot. Any new idiotic gun laws will be vetoed by our Republican Governor..
 
2014-04-17 07:39:36 PM  

Emposter: Ah, another thread full of farkers who hate on lawyers because they don't understand that our adversarial system requires competent representation on both sides of even issue we don't like.


Ahh, another complaint that misses the fact that we were talking about the private views he expressed to his daughter, not the position he took in the legal court.
 
2014-04-17 07:42:52 PM  

grumpfuff: Emposter: Ah, another thread full of farkers who hate on lawyers because they don't understand that our adversarial system requires competent representation on both sides of even issue we don't like.

Ahh, another complaint that misses the fact that we were talking about the private views he expressed to his daughter, not the position he took in the legal court.


I regret to inform you that you are not the only person in this thread.
 
2014-04-17 07:47:33 PM  

Emposter: grumpfuff: Emposter: Ah, another thread full of farkers who hate on lawyers because they don't understand that our adversarial system requires competent representation on both sides of even issue we don't like.

Ahh, another complaint that misses the fact that we were talking about the private views he expressed to his daughter, not the position he took in the legal court.

I regret to inform you that you are not the only person in this thread.


I regret to inform you that I am not the only person taking that position.
 
2014-04-17 07:51:20 PM  

grumpfuff: Emposter: grumpfuff: Emposter: Ah, another thread full of farkers who hate on lawyers because they don't understand that our adversarial system requires competent representation on both sides of even issue we don't like.

Ahh, another complaint that misses the fact that we were talking about the private views he expressed to his daughter, not the position he took in the legal court.

I regret to inform you that you are not the only person in this thread.

I regret to inform you that I am not the only person taking that position.


I regret to inform you that that makes no difference at all.
 
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