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(Yahoo)   According to TX prosecutors, an inmate with an IQ of 51 who was granted a new trial in 1983 but was mistakenly never retried or released, deliberately hid himself in jail for the next 30 years just so he could claim a "speedy trial" violation   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 38
    More: Asinine, speedy trial, Infraction, retrials, Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, prosecutors, Sixth Amendments, criminal appeals, sentenced to death  
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9378 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2014 at 2:06 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-17 12:46:39 PM
11 votes:
God, Texas is f*cked up.
2014-04-17 12:37:15 PM
6 votes:
Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas
2014-04-17 02:23:48 PM
5 votes:

StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.


Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?
2014-04-17 02:35:28 PM
4 votes:

StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.


FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?
2014-04-17 12:55:00 PM
4 votes:

Delta1212: The judge literally called the 33 years he spent in jail "pre-trial detention."


and further noted the guy didn't seem to mind being locked up. IN PRISON. FOR 30 YEARS, so no harm, no foul... "there is no evidence that Hartfield has suffered any anxiety relating to his pretrial detention."

The decades-long delay in a retrial actually benefited Hartfield, Judge Estlinbaum concluded last week, because it is far less likely today that he will be sentenced to death than it would have been had he been retried in the 1980s. The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.



Homebody go re-animate Gen Sherman, I'm off to buy a shiatload of matches and Kerosene.   It's time.
2014-04-17 02:50:05 PM
3 votes:

StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years.


First of all, that prosecutor's claim is horseshiat on its face, and the judge is a monumental asshole for accepting it.

That said, let's (for a moment) take it at face value. Any penal system which can be outsmarted, over three decades, by a man with an IQ of 51 has no business whatsoever incarcerating anyone, let alone executing them. But this being Texas, and you being you, I'm sure that all makes perfect 'sense' somehow.
2014-04-17 02:58:01 PM
2 votes:

ferretman: Wait.....the guy doesn't have any family members?


I don't want to live in a society that requires family members to personally correct disfunction in the judicial system.
2014-04-17 02:51:33 PM
2 votes:
In a perfect world, everyone in that town would put down whatever they are doing, walk down to the courthouse, drag the prosecutor and judge into the street, and string them up.
2014-04-17 02:48:27 PM
2 votes:

StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.


As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
2014-04-17 02:48:25 PM
2 votes:

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


If you can prove that someone with an IQ that low engaged in premedidation and deliberation, then yes, I agree with you.  That's a pretty high bar to reach, however.

That said, the only thing that he should be touting is that his conviction was vacated and sentence commuted in preparation for a new trial that was falsified by the Texas prison system.  Really, that's all that needs to be said.  Unless he actually sees the inside of a courtroom for a new murder trial, which the prosecution is bound to lose based on the lack of murder weapon, 30+ year old information form witnesses assuming they are still alive, and a "confession" that was coerced, then let the guy go.

As bad as it sounds though, his quality of life might be better in prison.  I can't imagine someone of his purported intelligence making it on their own, much less if they've been institutionalized and haven't had to for the last 30 years.
2014-04-17 02:46:54 PM
2 votes:

StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.


Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.
2014-04-17 02:46:47 PM
2 votes:
Sounds like the inmate wasn't the only person there with an IQ of 51.
2014-04-17 02:43:23 PM
2 votes:

StanTheMan: HemorrhagingKarma: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?

Yes I did. And it was because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty? Really?

This PoS should have been needled 30 years ago.


Not because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty, but because a juror was unconstitutionally barred from the jury.

FTFA: "because prosecutors had unconstitutionally precluded from the jury a woman who had reservations about the death penalty. "

Maybe I should rephrase the question: Did you understand the article?
2014-04-17 02:32:19 PM
2 votes:

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


You're asking why conservative lunatics, and I say this as someone born and raised Texan, are pushing ahead with a pointless, certain to fail plan that perverts all that we hod dear about America rather than admit they screwed up? Have you recently recovered from a decades long coma?
2014-04-17 02:24:28 PM
2 votes:
according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served
2014-04-17 02:24:07 PM
2 votes:
51 is considered a genius in Texas.
2014-04-17 02:14:13 PM
2 votes:

Magorn: Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas


Remind me again why Texas doesn't have its own Fark tag?
2014-04-17 02:08:06 PM
2 votes:
So what was the IQ of the jailers?
2014-04-17 01:02:09 PM
2 votes:
Once global warming raises the oceans enough to cover Florida, we WILL get our Texas tag.

So we have that going for us.  Which is nice.
2014-04-17 05:27:48 PM
1 votes:
I am skeptical that a black man with an IQ of 51 got a fair trial for the murder of a white woman in Texas in 1977.
2014-04-17 05:20:51 PM
1 votes:
This headline has the words "Texas, inmate, IQ, and jail" in it, I feel like I should express some type of opinion toot sweet.
2014-04-17 03:23:43 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


Because if they admit they farked up...lawsuit?
2014-04-17 03:21:54 PM
1 votes:

MooseUpNorth: Any penal system which can be outsmarted, over three decades, by a man with an IQ of 51 has no business whatsoever incarcerating anyone


Dude, ANY penal system can be "outsmarted" in this situation.  Jails and prisons are staffed with bunches of people who take care of a ton of inmates, and all employees generally run things on autopilot.

The guy is there because paperwork sent him to prison.  He'll be held at that prison until paperwork from somewhere else is sent to tell them what to do with him (transfer to another prison, release him, bring him to court for a hearing, etc.), otherwise he gets held and gets fed.  Do you think there is *ANYONE* that works there that knew what was going on?  The intake people had the paperwork to hold him, and never got sent anything to tell them to release him or transfer him somewhere else.  The guards just kept feeding him and doing whatever else.

I mean, it's on autopilot that way.  There really isn't anything to outsmart.
2014-04-17 03:14:15 PM
1 votes:
Magorn: ...  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There may be a financial reason.

They may want to push a retrial in order to get him to plead guilty and be released "for time served". That would likely imply (legally) he wasn't falsely imprisoned, and so he couldn't sue for compensation. But if they let him go because "oops", they might have to compensate.
2014-04-17 03:06:20 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


It's not exactly "Judicial activism" so much as it is "an Anglo-Saxon legal tradition that we can defintively trace back at least 500 years"

Even in Blackstone's original works the formulation of the  Insanity defense was:  "idiots and lunatics are not chargeable for their own acts, if committed when under these incapacities"

now we have lessened that protection somewhat, but given that Blackstone is widely considered the definitive source for the English Common law explicitly embraced by the framers of the Constitution, and nearly every one of the original united states  as foundation of  US legal traditions, it was completely rational for the Supreme court to find that even using an "original intent" analysis the 8th amendment would forbid executing the retarded.
2014-04-17 03:06:07 PM
1 votes:
I.Q. of 51 and in jail i'm guessing......clicks link.....YEP!
WGJ
2014-04-17 02:54:09 PM
1 votes:
This guy is/was going to be institutionalized anyways. Does it really matter whether he reports to Nurse Ratched or the wardern?
2014-04-17 02:44:06 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


He has not been convicted of murder. The first trial was ruled invalid due to illegal actions by the prosecutors (In 1980s Texas, consider what sort of actions those entailed).
2014-04-17 02:40:26 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.


Sure, who cares if it was a fair trial?  No one really needs those, do they?
2014-04-17 02:39:18 PM
1 votes:
Anyone got a good biatch slap? I know a judge that needs one.
2014-04-17 02:36:02 PM
1 votes:

ferretman: Wait.....the guy doesn't have any family members?


I'm sure family members will come out of the woodwork once the lawyers start talking settlement amounts.  And Texas will probably want to bill him for 30 years of fraudulent use of state facilities.
2014-04-17 02:35:38 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.
2014-04-17 02:34:43 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


You act as though TX is concerned with PR.
2014-04-17 02:24:19 PM
1 votes:

a particular individual: Is the followup tag on vacation?


It's in pretrial detention.  Check back in 2047.
2014-04-17 02:21:46 PM
1 votes:
....it's like a whole other country.....
2014-04-17 01:49:51 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: Only in mother-farking Texas


HIGHLY doubtful.

Glad he's finally got a lawyer on his side to fight for him. This is quite the ridiculous miscarriage of justice.
2014-04-17 12:51:42 PM
1 votes:
Clever! You almost had us...
2014-04-17 12:49:16 PM
1 votes:
Since there's a 6A problem (and 5 and 14 because due process?), I look forward to the Supremes telling him to go piss up a rope.

// yes, I mean the falsely-imprisoned
// I can easily see Scalia read the "pre-trial detention" part and nod thoughtfully
 
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