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(Yahoo)   According to TX prosecutors, an inmate with an IQ of 51 who was granted a new trial in 1983 but was mistakenly never retried or released, deliberately hid himself in jail for the next 30 years just so he could claim a "speedy trial" violation   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 155
    More: Asinine, speedy trial, Infraction, retrials, Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, prosecutors, Sixth Amendments, criminal appeals, sentenced to death  
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9375 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2014 at 2:06 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



155 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-17 12:37:15 PM
Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas
 
2014-04-17 12:39:09 PM
You were clever, Raffles, but not clever enough for Texas
 
2014-04-17 12:39:12 PM
The judge literally called the 33 years he spent in jail "pre-trial detention."
 
2014-04-17 12:46:39 PM
God, Texas is f*cked up.
 
2014-04-17 12:49:16 PM
Since there's a 6A problem (and 5 and 14 because due process?), I look forward to the Supremes telling him to go piss up a rope.

// yes, I mean the falsely-imprisoned
// I can easily see Scalia read the "pre-trial detention" part and nod thoughtfully
 
2014-04-17 12:51:42 PM
Clever! You almost had us...
 
2014-04-17 12:55:00 PM

Delta1212: The judge literally called the 33 years he spent in jail "pre-trial detention."


and further noted the guy didn't seem to mind being locked up. IN PRISON. FOR 30 YEARS, so no harm, no foul... "there is no evidence that Hartfield has suffered any anxiety relating to his pretrial detention."

The decades-long delay in a retrial actually benefited Hartfield, Judge Estlinbaum concluded last week, because it is far less likely today that he will be sentenced to death than it would have been had he been retried in the 1980s. The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.



Homebody go re-animate Gen Sherman, I'm off to buy a shiatload of matches and Kerosene.   It's time.
 
2014-04-17 01:02:09 PM
Once global warming raises the oceans enough to cover Florida, we WILL get our Texas tag.

So we have that going for us.  Which is nice.
 
2014-04-17 01:14:17 PM
Well, I'm convinced.
 
2014-04-17 01:49:51 PM

Magorn: Only in mother-farking Texas


HIGHLY doubtful.

Glad he's finally got a lawyer on his side to fight for him. This is quite the ridiculous miscarriage of justice.
 
2014-04-17 02:07:45 PM
Is there a Mr Gump? Ms Gump?
 
2014-04-17 02:08:06 PM
So what was the IQ of the jailers?
 
2014-04-17 02:08:34 PM
Seems legit.
 
2014-04-17 02:11:52 PM
www.toyota-4runner.org
 
2014-04-17 02:13:56 PM
Wouldn't it be a SpEd-y trial?
 
2014-04-17 02:14:13 PM

Magorn: Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas


Remind me again why Texas doesn't have its own Fark tag?
 
2014-04-17 02:17:13 PM

Aigoo: Magorn: Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas

Remind me again why Texas doesn't have its own Fark tag?


Because Texas has nowhere near anything close to Florida with their stupidity
 
2014-04-17 02:18:10 PM
Is the followup tag on vacation?
 
2014-04-17 02:18:53 PM
You're in the wrong line dumbass!
 
2014-04-17 02:19:23 PM
"Parking offense, shmarking offense, M'lord!"
 
2014-04-17 02:20:12 PM
And Anne Frank is dethroned.
 
2014-04-17 02:21:22 PM
Wait.....the guy doesn't have any family members?
 
2014-04-17 02:21:32 PM
Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.
 
2014-04-17 02:21:46 PM
....it's like a whole other country.....
 
2014-04-17 02:22:29 PM
I'm surprised this hasn't been a story for TX Monthly, they're usually all over things like this.
 
2014-04-17 02:23:23 PM
Texans need to cook up some kind of appellate process before the feds start snooping around. Perhaps someone with a Law GED could help.
 
2014-04-17 02:23:48 PM

StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.


Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?
 
2014-04-17 02:24:07 PM
51 is considered a genius in Texas.
 
2014-04-17 02:24:19 PM

a particular individual: Is the followup tag on vacation?


It's in pretrial detention.  Check back in 2047.
 
2014-04-17 02:24:28 PM
according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served
 
2014-04-17 02:31:42 PM

LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?


Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.
 
2014-04-17 02:32:19 PM

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


You're asking why conservative lunatics, and I say this as someone born and raised Texan, are pushing ahead with a pointless, certain to fail plan that perverts all that we hod dear about America rather than admit they screwed up? Have you recently recovered from a decades long coma?
 
2014-04-17 02:34:38 PM

LarryDan43: 51 is considered a genius in Texas.


It exceeds that of the judge and the governor of Texas by a good bit.
 
2014-04-17 02:34:41 PM

daemoncan: ....it's like a whole other country.....


Hell, It's a whole other planet.
 
2014-04-17 02:34:43 PM

Magorn: Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


You act as though TX is concerned with PR.
 
2014-04-17 02:35:28 PM

StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.


FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?
 
2014-04-17 02:35:38 PM

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.
 
2014-04-17 02:36:02 PM

ferretman: Wait.....the guy doesn't have any family members?


I'm sure family members will come out of the woodwork once the lawyers start talking settlement amounts.  And Texas will probably want to bill him for 30 years of fraudulent use of state facilities.
 
2014-04-17 02:37:54 PM

StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.


Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.
 
2014-04-17 02:38:41 PM

HemorrhagingKarma: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?


Yes I did. And it was because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty? Really?

This PoS should have been needled 30 years ago.
 
2014-04-17 02:39:13 PM

Hoarseman: Have you recently recovered from a decades long coma?


That's Pre-lucidity detention in Texas.
 
2014-04-17 02:39:18 PM
Anyone got a good biatch slap? I know a judge that needs one.
 
2014-04-17 02:39:31 PM
Maybe he can claim squatter's rights and actually be the legal owner of his cell...
 
2014-04-17 02:40:26 PM

StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.


Sure, who cares if it was a fair trial?  No one really needs those, do they?
 
2014-04-17 02:40:46 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.


Its the same stupid shiat that let McDuff out

The only thing that should be squashed is the death penalty sentence, at no point should this person ever be allowed out in public again.
 
2014-04-17 02:40:50 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.


Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.
 
2014-04-17 02:43:23 PM

StanTheMan: HemorrhagingKarma: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?

Yes I did. And it was because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty? Really?

This PoS should have been needled 30 years ago.


Not because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty, but because a juror was unconstitutionally barred from the jury.

FTFA: "because prosecutors had unconstitutionally precluded from the jury a woman who had reservations about the death penalty. "

Maybe I should rephrase the question: Did you understand the article?
 
2014-04-17 02:44:06 PM

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


He has not been convicted of murder. The first trial was ruled invalid due to illegal actions by the prosecutors (In 1980s Texas, consider what sort of actions those entailed).
 
2014-04-17 02:46:47 PM
Sounds like the inmate wasn't the only person there with an IQ of 51.
 
2014-04-17 02:46:54 PM

StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.


Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.
 
2014-04-17 02:48:04 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.


He was trespassing then.  That's illegal.
 
2014-04-17 02:48:25 PM

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


If you can prove that someone with an IQ that low engaged in premedidation and deliberation, then yes, I agree with you.  That's a pretty high bar to reach, however.

That said, the only thing that he should be touting is that his conviction was vacated and sentence commuted in preparation for a new trial that was falsified by the Texas prison system.  Really, that's all that needs to be said.  Unless he actually sees the inside of a courtroom for a new murder trial, which the prosecution is bound to lose based on the lack of murder weapon, 30+ year old information form witnesses assuming they are still alive, and a "confession" that was coerced, then let the guy go.

As bad as it sounds though, his quality of life might be better in prison.  I can't imagine someone of his purported intelligence making it on their own, much less if they've been institutionalized and haven't had to for the last 30 years.
 
2014-04-17 02:48:27 PM

StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.


As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
 
2014-04-17 02:49:37 PM
When is he going to reimburse the taxpayer for all those punishment loaves?
 
2014-04-17 02:50:05 PM

StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years.


First of all, that prosecutor's claim is horseshiat on its face, and the judge is a monumental asshole for accepting it.

That said, let's (for a moment) take it at face value. Any penal system which can be outsmarted, over three decades, by a man with an IQ of 51 has no business whatsoever incarcerating anyone, let alone executing them. But this being Texas, and you being you, I'm sure that all makes perfect 'sense' somehow.
 
2014-04-17 02:51:33 PM
In a perfect world, everyone in that town would put down whatever they are doing, walk down to the courthouse, drag the prosecutor and judge into the street, and string them up.
 
2014-04-17 02:52:19 PM
ShadowKamui:
Its the same stupid shiat that let McDuff out

The only thing that should be squashed is the death penalty sentence, at no point should this person ever be allowed out in public again.


His conviction was vacated. Do you not understand what that means? I'll spell it out. It means that legally he has not been found guilty of a crime. Do you know what "innocent until proven guilty" means and why we have that little rule?
 
2014-04-17 02:53:23 PM

stonicus: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.

He was trespassing then.  That's illegal.

Volenti non fit iniuria


The State of Texas wanted him in that prison. They gave consent for him to be there, ergo no trespass.
 
2014-04-17 02:54:08 PM

StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.


Magnificent trolling, lad.  9/10
 
WGJ
2014-04-17 02:54:09 PM
This guy is/was going to be institutionalized anyways. Does it really matter whether he reports to Nurse Ratched or the wardern?
 
2014-04-17 02:55:44 PM

WGJ: This guy is/was going to be institutionalized anyways.


All he wanted was a Pepsi.
 
2014-04-17 02:56:55 PM

StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.


10/10.  Well done.

\throw in a couple of spelling mistakes, and I'll gladly crank your score up to 11.
 
2014-04-17 02:58:01 PM

ferretman: Wait.....the guy doesn't have any family members?


I don't want to live in a society that requires family members to personally correct disfunction in the judicial system.
 
2014-04-17 02:59:01 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.


He's BLACK.  Pretty sure that's STILL a crime in parts of Texas...
 
2014-04-17 03:00:16 PM

Magorn: Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.   Only in mother-farking Texas


Missouri would like a word....

of course in Texas, they would have never let that guy out to begin with, so you may be right....
 
2014-04-17 03:00:22 PM

probesport: WGJ: This guy is/was going to be institutionalized anyways.

All he wanted was a Pepsi.


+1.
 
2014-04-17 03:00:32 PM
He's obviously a criminal mastermind who is just pretending to have a mental deficiency.  I mean, who WOULDN'T want to spend most of their lives in the Texas prison system?
 
2014-04-17 03:01:33 PM

Di Atribe: Magorn: Only in mother-farking Texas

HIGHLY doubtful.

Glad he's finally got a lawyer on his side to fight for him. This is quite the ridiculous miscarriage of justice.


Too bad the 3 people he killed didn't have anyone to fight for them.
 
2014-04-17 03:02:41 PM

StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.



googledrive.com
 
2014-04-17 03:04:15 PM

jaybeezey: Di Atribe: Magorn: Only in mother-farking Texas

HIGHLY doubtful.

Glad he's finally got a lawyer on his side to fight for him. This is quite the ridiculous miscarriage of justice.

Too bad the 3 people he killed didn't have anyone to fight for them.


Sorry, 1 person, I was thinking of a different case.
 
2014-04-17 03:06:07 PM
I.Q. of 51 and in jail i'm guessing......clicks link.....YEP!
 
2014-04-17 03:06:17 PM

StanTheMan: They can make him a civil rights icon


because civil rights is libtarded right ?

Ya know who else hated civil rights ?

// actually there are quite a few evil people that agree with your hatred of liberty and justice
 
2014-04-17 03:06:20 PM

StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.


It's not exactly "Judicial activism" so much as it is "an Anglo-Saxon legal tradition that we can defintively trace back at least 500 years"

Even in Blackstone's original works the formulation of the  Insanity defense was:  "idiots and lunatics are not chargeable for their own acts, if committed when under these incapacities"

now we have lessened that protection somewhat, but given that Blackstone is widely considered the definitive source for the English Common law explicitly embraced by the framers of the Constitution, and nearly every one of the original united states  as foundation of  US legal traditions, it was completely rational for the Supreme court to find that even using an "original intent" analysis the 8th amendment would forbid executing the retarded.
 
2014-04-17 03:07:14 PM

patrick767: ShadowKamui:
Its the same stupid shiat that let McDuff out

The only thing that should be squashed is the death penalty sentence, at no point should this person ever be allowed out in public again.

His conviction was vacated. Do you not understand what that means? I'll spell it out. It means that legally he has not been found guilty of a crime. Do you know what "innocent until proven guilty" means and why we have that little rule?


Actually he was legally found to be a borderline non functioning retard
The only thing the state did wrong was not put enough rubber padding in his cell and have his guards wear lab coats
 
2014-04-17 03:08:30 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: You're in the wrong line dumbass!


Funny stuff.

- Hi. Excuse me. I'm actually supposed to be getting out of prison today, sir.
- Yeah.
- You're in the wrong line, dumb ass. Over there.
- I'm sorry. I am being a big dumb ass. Sorry.
- Hey, uh, let this dumb ass through.


About a minute in on this preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2OEgafELw
 
2014-04-17 03:08:31 PM
I won't know what to think about this until we've heard from that one guy who thinks that Texas has the best judiciary in the country, a system which never gets anything wrong. I believe he has an obsession with size. You know, that guy.
 
2014-04-17 03:11:21 PM

stonicus: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.

He was trespassing then.  That's illegal.


Shiat, son, you shoulda been a lawyer.
 
2014-04-17 03:11:41 PM

ShadowKamui: The only thing the state did wrong was not put enough rubber padding in his cell and have his guards wear lab coats


are you SURE that being stupid should be punishable by long term jail time ?

// really sure ?
 
2014-04-17 03:11:52 PM
I was going to dare some motherfarker to defend this (sarcastically, of course), but I'm already too late for that. Surprisingly (not), said defender is colored in red.
 
2014-04-17 03:14:15 PM
Magorn: ...  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There may be a financial reason.

They may want to push a retrial in order to get him to plead guilty and be released "for time served". That would likely imply (legally) he wasn't falsely imprisoned, and so he couldn't sue for compensation. But if they let him go because "oops", they might have to compensate.
 
2014-04-17 03:15:42 PM

cman: Aigoo: Magorn: Thata desperate prosecutor's office made this claim does not surprise me.  That a Judge actually BOUGHT that argument?  Hole-e-schnitt.  Only in mother-farking Texas

Remind me again why Texas doesn't have its own Fark tag?

Because Texas has nowhere near anything close to Florida with their stupidity


Yes, but Texas is so incredibly ahead in their level of HATRED for intelligence and compassion, they deserve their own tag.
 
2014-04-17 03:17:03 PM

Slartibartfaster: ShadowKamui: The only thing the state did wrong was not put enough rubber padding in his cell and have his guards wear lab coats

are you SURE that being stupid should be punishable by long term jail time ?

// really sure ?


Its called a mental institution, and yes people who can't be allowed in public due to mental deficiencies are sent there
 
2014-04-17 03:17:34 PM
Elected judges are AWESOME!!!
 
2014-04-17 03:18:09 PM
Things like this desperately make me want to grant Texas the independence its yokel redneck asshats so desperately seem to crave. But then I think on it for a picosecond and realize, if they're doing this to this dude, then without oversight they're gonna do this to lots of dudes and dudettes.

So instead I formally suggest moving the capital of the US Federal Government to Hearne, Texas, which after 5 seconds on Google Maps looks to be dead center in the triangle formed by Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Just so the commie liberal coastal intellectuals can keep tabs on the ten-gallon bastards.
 
2014-04-17 03:21:54 PM

MooseUpNorth: Any penal system which can be outsmarted, over three decades, by a man with an IQ of 51 has no business whatsoever incarcerating anyone


Dude, ANY penal system can be "outsmarted" in this situation.  Jails and prisons are staffed with bunches of people who take care of a ton of inmates, and all employees generally run things on autopilot.

The guy is there because paperwork sent him to prison.  He'll be held at that prison until paperwork from somewhere else is sent to tell them what to do with him (transfer to another prison, release him, bring him to court for a hearing, etc.), otherwise he gets held and gets fed.  Do you think there is *ANYONE* that works there that knew what was going on?  The intake people had the paperwork to hold him, and never got sent anything to tell them to release him or transfer him somewhere else.  The guards just kept feeding him and doing whatever else.

I mean, it's on autopilot that way.  There really isn't anything to outsmart.
 
2014-04-17 03:23:43 PM

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


Because if they admit they farked up...lawsuit?
 
2014-04-17 03:30:31 PM

ZeroPly: StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.

As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."


Favorited, because Mencken.
 
2014-04-17 03:31:27 PM
People have to understand that prosecutors in Texas are fundamentally evil people, as are most of the judges. You do not get to become a prosecutor or judge in a court-of-record in Texas without being someone who would make Satan shiat his pants in terror and cry for mommy. It's how the state works.
 
2014-04-17 03:35:52 PM

StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.


Are you an idiot, or are you just playing one on the internet?
 
2014-04-17 03:36:17 PM

scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.


My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."
 
2014-04-17 03:38:41 PM
A thirty one year mandatory prison sentence for some Texas prosecutors would seem to be a partial solution to this problem.
 
2014-04-17 03:41:32 PM
To be fair, with an IQ of 51 this guy probably does appear to your average Texan to be a diabolical, criminal mastermind.
 
2014-04-17 03:45:41 PM
In California if a mentally ill person commits a violent crime and their mental illness is likely going to cause them to commit another crime they can be held at the Atascadero Mental Facility until they aren't deemed to be a threat anymore - even after their sentence has been served.

They started the program because of outrage of violent mentally I'll or handicapped people reoffending, often within days of release and often with the same MO.

If Texas has a program like that (not sure if they do) this guy would be a prime target for it.

Who would really be served by letting this guy out into the public? He has a violent history and probably can't take care of himself.

The justice system certainly dropped the ball, no doubt about that. I don't think the answer is unleashing this guy on the public.
If there was even a remote likelihood that he didn't commit the crime then this would be a different story.
 
2014-04-17 03:49:27 PM
Wow
 
2014-04-17 03:54:56 PM

Dr Dreidel: scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.

My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."


When I see a story like this, I go straight to "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
 
2014-04-17 03:55:37 PM

Johnny_Whistle: Magnificent trolling, lad.  9/10


No, i'ts pathetically weak, but the bar's not set high here.
 
2014-04-17 03:55:43 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: StanTheMan: The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Well, he's certainly not guilty. After all, that's the result when a conviction is vacated.

Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

This guy sounds like the perfect cause celebre for libs. They can make him a civil rights icon like Tookie Williams or Mumia.

Are you an idiot, or are you just playing one on the internet?


I'm pretty sure that, if he thinks playing that character on the internet is amusing, he's still an idiot. Just for different reasons.
 
2014-04-17 03:55:49 PM

Magorn: and further noted the guy didn't seem to mind being locked up. IN PRISON. FOR 30 YEARS, so no harm, no foul... "there is no evidence that Hartfield has suffered any anxiety relating to his pretrial detention."


My grandmother worked with the mentally disabled.  They're generally much better in a highly structured environment than 'normal' people.  If you figure that he doesn't associate with the excessively violent prisoners,

StanTheMan: There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.


I don't care either, but I question the ability for somebody with an IQ of 55 to premeditate anything.

As for his 'deserving the needle', while I don't know about his case, I DO know that the late '70s through '80s were the high point of trial misconduct with police and prosecutors making up evidence, hiding evidence, etc...  Remember the guy who just got out after 25 years when he was in Disney World when the murder happened in NY?

Kooj: They may want to push a retrial in order to get him to plead guilty and be released "for time served". That would likely imply (legally) he wasn't falsely imprisoned, and so he couldn't sue for compensation. But if they let him go because "oops", they might have to compensate.


An interesting theory.  On the other hand you'd have to balance the cost of a murder trial against any settlements, because you KNOW that the state will have to pick up everything, including the defense.  On the other hand, if he was offered a plea-bargain for 2nd degree murder with a sentence of 'time served', it'd be stupid NOT to take it.

On the other hand, he might be able to get around $6M for false imprisonment, so there's that.
 
2014-04-17 03:58:10 PM

Dr Dreidel: scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.

My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."


Then there's:

I admit freely enough that, by careful breeding, supervision of environment and education, extending over many generations, it might be possible to make an appreciable improvement in the stock of the American negro, for example, but I must maintain that this enterprise would be a ridiculous waste of energy, for there is a high-caste white stock ready at hand, and it is inconceivable that the negro stock, however carefully it might be nurtured, could ever even remotely approach it. The educated negro of today is a failure, not because he meets insuperable difficulties in life, but because he is a negro. He is, in brief, a low-caste man, to the manner born, and he will remain inert and inefficient until fifty generations of him have lived in civilization. And even then, the superior white race will be fifty generations ahead of him.
 
2014-04-17 04:02:41 PM
IWB (Incarcerated While Black) is a crime in Texas?

/good to know
 
2014-04-17 04:07:54 PM

DrBenway: Dr Dreidel: scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.

My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."

When I see a story like this, I go straight to "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."


Not to mention:

the foul, ignorant, thieving, superstitious, self-appointed negro preacher of the Black Belt, whose mental life is made up of three ambitions - to eat a whole hog at one meal, to be a white man in heaven, and to meet a white woman, some day, in a lonely wood

See p. 234.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RHdLAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq =m encken+men+versus+the+man&hl=en&ei=myrHTKuwIMO88gbo16jJDw&sa=X&oi=book _result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q&f=fa lse
 
2014-04-17 04:09:32 PM
1. gottdamn it Texas cut this shiat out.
2. Prosecutor I hope no one is buying that shiat your spewing.
3. where the fark were the guy's lawyers during that 30 years?
 
2014-04-17 04:19:55 PM
He did the time but didn't do the crime. So give him a crime. Let him kill the judge or prosecutor and then walk home to live the rest of his life. Seems fair.
 
2014-04-17 04:19:59 PM
From the Huffington Post

Hartfield, 57, was convicted in 1977 of killing Lowe and sentenced to death, but that conviction was overturned three years later. After prosecutors unsuccessfully appealed that ruling, then-Gov. Mark White commuted Hartfield's sentence to life in prison in 1983.
Hartfield, who is described in court documents as an illiterate 5th grade dropout with an IQ of 51, didn't challenge his continued detention until 2006, when a fellow prisoner pointed out that once his conviction was overturned, there was no sentence to commute. Appeals courts agreed and ordered Hartfield freed or retried. Hartfield is scheduled to stand trial again in April for Lowe's slaying.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/14/jerry-hartfield_n_4791122.h tm l

What I would really like to see is a copy of the judge's opinion, since I don't necessarily trust a Yahoo journalist's description of it.
 
2014-04-17 04:21:15 PM
They should send him a bill for all the housing and food he has been steeling from the State of Texas for the past 30 years.
 
2014-04-17 04:26:02 PM

Heatseeker: He did the time but didn't do the crime. So give him a crime. Let him kill the judge or prosecutor and then walk home to live the rest of his life. Seems fair.


He didn't do the crime?

Lets quote from the farking article, shall we?  "On June 30, 1977, Hartfield was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death for killing a woman named Eunice Lowe. "

It certainly shouldn't have been handled the way it was handled, but there is exactly zero evidence that this guy is actually innocent.
 
2014-04-17 04:26:08 PM
"strategized to keep himself in prison for 30 years as a way of avoiding a retrial."

How is this in the INMATE's hands? Where are the prosecutors? Where is his public defender? Never mind his family, there are a lot of people asleep at the switch.
 
2014-04-17 04:28:30 PM
Texas just loooooooooooooooovvvvvves to hurt non-rich people, doesn't it? Bonus points if the victim is of the blah persuasion.
 
2014-04-17 04:29:13 PM
Free room and board for 30 years.  Can't argue with that.
 
2014-04-17 04:29:48 PM

JuggleGeek: Heatseeker: He did the time but didn't do the crime. So give him a crime. Let him kill the judge or prosecutor and then walk home to live the rest of his life. Seems fair.

He didn't do the crime?

Lets quote from the farking article, shall we?  "On June 30, 1977, Hartfield was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death for killing a woman named Eunice Lowe. "

It certainly shouldn't have been handled the way it was handled, but there is exactly zero evidence that this guy is actually innocent.


The conviction was vacated - which means that, under the law, he was never convicted of anything, and is an innocent man.
Or are you one of those guys who regards the law and the Constitution and stuff like that to be "technicalities"?
 
2014-04-17 04:29:50 PM

JuggleGeek: He didn't do the crime?


Not legally, he did not. See, that's what happens when a conviction is overturned and a sentence vacated. It's like the trial never happened.
 
2014-04-17 04:32:10 PM
This guys "conviction" stunk so bad it giot thrown out in 1980s Texas. That should tell you how much merit it had.
 
2014-04-17 04:38:14 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: StanTheMan: Because he hid from the system for 30 years. Now let's reward that.

Right. He hid from the system. In prison. For 30 years.

His trial was in 1977. His conviction was overturned in 1980. It was vacated in 1983. Since then, he has been sitting in prison without having legally committed a crime.


That bastage owes the tax payers a lot of back rent!
 
2014-04-17 04:41:09 PM
This is like later on in the monopoly game, when there are hotels everywhere.  You stay in jail and desperately try not to roll doubles for the full 3 turns before paying the meager $50 release fee.  Guy really dodged a bullet.
 
2014-04-17 04:43:20 PM

StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.


Texas has never officially executed an innocent man. After the execution, all records are sealed and cannot be investigated anymore.
 
2014-04-17 04:45:31 PM

imapirate: God, Texas is f*cked up.



It is farked up.
It is full of farked up people, too.
And there are quite a few people that live there that are just plain full of crap.
I'm sure one will post shortly along this thread pointing out that I am wrong about that, just to prove the point.
I speak from experience. I have lived in Texas. It is a Farked up state. I moved the fark out. Because I don't want to be associated with assholes.
I lived in Pennsylvania. Yep, Moved the fark out.
I've moved out of a lot of states that I found out were corrupt shiatholes.
But I always had enough self-conscious to not live in a place full of farked up people.
But really, Texas, must you be so farked up? I mean, the first thing anyone sees when they meet someone from your state is how farking smug you are, when you ought to be ashamed.
You ought to mumble your home state with such derision and humility that you should be asked to repeat it. You should cast your eyes on the floor and shuffle your feet when you say it.
You should thank your lucky stars we the people don't just rip the border open and yell out to Mexico, Come and get it! And let them have a crack at it because at least they are hardworking and enterprising and wouldn't shait on people that come to work cheap.
Jesus, Texas, you make Massachusetts look less retarded every time you are in the news.
 
2014-04-17 04:48:08 PM

Magorn: Homebody go re-animate Gen Sherman, I'm off to buy a shiatload of matches and Kerosene. It's time.


We had less on Saddam Hussein. Let's give Texas the freedom they deserve.
 
2014-04-17 04:53:20 PM

limeyfellow: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Texas has never officially executed an innocent man. After the execution, all records are sealed and cannot be investigated anymore.


Cameron Todd Willingham. Yes, they have. And this is why, while I'm fine with the death penalty in theory, I am no longer willing to support it in practice.
 
2014-04-17 04:57:06 PM
I had submitted this with a better link!
 
2014-04-17 05:08:21 PM

Magorn: Delta1212: The judge literally called the 33 years he spent in jail "pre-trial detention."

and further noted the guy didn't seem to mind being locked up. IN PRISON. FOR 30 YEARS, so no harm, no foul... "there is no evidence that Hartfield has suffered any anxiety relating to his pretrial detention."

The decades-long delay in a retrial actually benefited Hartfield, Judge Estlinbaum concluded last week, because it is far less likely today that he will be sentenced to death than it would have been had he been retried in the 1980s. The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.


Homebody go re-animate Gen Sherman, I'm off to buy a shiatload of matches and Kerosene.   It's time.


Sign me up.
 
2014-04-17 05:14:06 PM

Securitywyrm: StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.

He has not been convicted of murder. The first trial was ruled invalid due to illegal actions by the prosecutors (In 1980s Texas, consider what sort of actions those entailed).


I think you are going to find out that this guy is typing responses by banging his junk up and down on the keyboard, this whole concept of "reason" isn't gonna work with him. Nor will "facts", or "Reading the Farking Article". You could try banging YOUR junk on the keyboard, and you might reach his communication level.
 
2014-04-17 05:14:31 PM

ChubbyTiger: limeyfellow: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Texas has never officially executed an innocent man. After the execution, all records are sealed and cannot be investigated anymore.

Cameron Todd Willingham. Yes, they have. And this is why, while I'm fine with the death penalty in theory, I am no longer willing to support it in practice.


The key word is offically
 
2014-04-17 05:14:46 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: Sounds like the inmate wasn't the only person there with an IQ of 51.


One of them is RIGHT HERE on this very board...
 
2014-04-17 05:16:59 PM
I'm surprised ACLU national hasn't come down on this like a fat man at Sizzler.
 
2014-04-17 05:20:51 PM
This headline has the words "Texas, inmate, IQ, and jail" in it, I feel like I should express some type of opinion toot sweet.
 
2014-04-17 05:22:05 PM

Magorn: Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


Look at his picture. This is Texas. You'll figure it out.

/they're all dangerous, you know
 
2014-04-17 05:27:48 PM
I am skeptical that a black man with an IQ of 51 got a fair trial for the murder of a white woman in Texas in 1977.
 
2014-04-17 05:29:43 PM
See pp. 3-7 of the attached for a lot more information on this case.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/JHartfield5Cir.pdf

He has not been convicted of murder. The first trial was ruled invalid due to illegal actions by the prosecutors (In 1980s Texas, consider what sort of actions those entailed).

Since there have been a lot of variations on this post written, from the above document,

In 1977, a Texas jury convicted Jerry Hartsfield of the capital murder of Eunice Lowe.  Jurors sentenced him to death.  Hartfield appealed on numerous grounds.  On September 17, 1980, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals unanimously reversed his conviction.  Hartfield v. State, 645 S.W.2d 436, 441 (Tex. Crim. App. 1980).  The court held that the State had violated Hartfield's constitutional rights by striking a juror for cause because of her reservations about the death penalty.  See Witherspoon v. Texas, 391 U.S. 510, 520-23 (1968); see also Adams v. Texas, 448 U.S. 38, 43-45 (1980) (applying Witherspoon to the specific procedure Texas employs in capital cases).

Witherspoon only affected the sentence and not the determination of guilt.  Nevertheless, Texas law at the time required an entirely new trial in such circumstances.
 
2014-04-17 05:32:24 PM

Comic Book Guy: StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.

If you can prove that someone with an IQ that low engaged in premedidation and deliberation, then yes, I agree with you.  That's a pretty high bar to reach, however.

That said, the only thing that he should be touting is that his conviction was vacated and sentence commuted in preparation for a new trial that was falsified by the Texas prison system.  Really, that's all that needs to be said.  Unless he actually sees the inside of a courtroom for a new murder trial, which the prosecution is bound to lose based on the lack of murder weapon, 30+ year old information form witnesses assuming they are still alive, and a "confession" that was coerced, then let the guy go.

As bad as it sounds though, his quality of life might be better in prison.  I can't imagine someone of his purported intelligence making it on their own, much less if they've been institutionalized and haven't had to for the last 30 years.


The farking judge had THIS to say about a new trial...

 The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.

He can't have an effective defense because of a lack of evidence and witness? What the fark?
 
2014-04-17 05:33:49 PM

Mikey1969: Comic Book Guy: StanTheMan: Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served

There's some SCOTUS judicial activism that needs to be reversed. I don't care if your IQ is 55, you murder someone with premeditation and deliberation, you get the needle. Call it equal protection.

One problem with this made-up rule is that now all murder suspects attorneys hire IQ expert witnesses (i.e., whores) to show how dumb they are.

If you can prove that someone with an IQ that low engaged in premedidation and deliberation, then yes, I agree with you.  That's a pretty high bar to reach, however.

That said, the only thing that he should be touting is that his conviction was vacated and sentence commuted in preparation for a new trial that was falsified by the Texas prison system.  Really, that's all that needs to be said.  Unless he actually sees the inside of a courtroom for a new murder trial, which the prosecution is bound to lose based on the lack of murder weapon, 30+ year old information form witnesses assuming they are still alive, and a "confession" that was coerced, then let the guy go.

As bad as it sounds though, his quality of life might be better in prison.  I can't imagine someone of his purported intelligence making it on their own, much less if they've been institutionalized and haven't had to for the last 30 years.

The farking judge had THIS to say about a new trial...

 The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ...


Have you found and read the judge's opinion?
 
2014-04-17 05:33:59 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Not legally, he did not. See, that's what happens when a conviction is overturned and a sentence vacated. It's like the trial never happened.


They overturned it on a technicality.  There is no evidence that anyone, including his lawyer, is arguing that he didn't commit the murder.

jso2897: Or are you one of those guys who regards the law and the Constitution and stuff like that to be "technicalities"?


Go fark yourself, troll.  What I actually wrote : "It certainly shouldn't have been handled the way it was handled, but there is exactly zero evidence that this guy is actually innocent. "

What you twist it into "You have no regard for the law or the constitution".

Go suck some cock like your daddy taught you.
 
2014-04-17 05:37:03 PM

keypusher: Dr Dreidel: scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.

My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."

Then there's:

I admit freely enough that, by careful breeding, supervision of environment and education, extending over many generations, it might be possible to make an appreciable improvement in the stock of the American negro, for example, but I must maintain that this enterprise would be a ridiculous waste of energy, for there is a high-caste white stock ready at hand, and it is inconceivable that the negro stock, however carefully it might be nurtured, could ever even remotely approach it. The educated negro of today is a failure, not because he meets insuperable difficulties in life, but because he is a negro. He is, in brief, a low-caste man, to the manner born, and he will remain inert and inefficient until fifty generations of him have lived in civilization. And even then, the superior white race will be fifty generations ahead of him.


Given that the first person to quote Mencken clearly referred to him (in a just-as-clearly tongue-in-cheek manner) as "that great "lib" ", do you really think you're educating us with these quotes you're adding, telling us something we don't already know?
 
2014-04-17 05:39:15 PM

Mikey1969: The farking judge had THIS to say about a new trial...

The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.

He can't have an effective defense because of a lack of evidence and witness? What the fark?


Okay, fine. Makes sense. So he can't be tried and is now a free man.

THIS IS WHAT THAT SHOULD MEAN, TEXAS, YOU IDIOT OF A STATE!
 
2014-04-17 05:41:40 PM

DrBenway: keypusher: Dr Dreidel: scarmig: ZeroPly: As that great "lib" H. L. Mencken once said:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Favorited, because Mencken.

My favorite Mencken quote: "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

// though I just found this also: "If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl."

Then there's:

I admit freely enough that, by careful breeding, supervision of environment and education, extending over many generations, it might be possible to make an appreciable improvement in the stock of the American negro, for example, but I must maintain that this enterprise would be a ridiculous waste of energy, for there is a high-caste white stock ready at hand, and it is inconceivable that the negro stock, however carefully it might be nurtured, could ever even remotely approach it. The educated negro of today is a failure, not because he meets insuperable difficulties in life, but because he is a negro. He is, in brief, a low-caste man, to the manner born, and he will remain inert and inefficient until fifty generations of him have lived in civilization. And even then, the superior white race will be fifty generations ahead of him.

Given that the first person to quote Mencken clearly referred to him (in a just-as-clearly tongue-in-cheek manner) as "that great "lib" ", do you really think you're educating us with these quotes you're adding, telling us something we don't already know?


Yes, I have absolutely no doubt of it.
 
2014-04-17 05:45:28 PM

ShadowKamui: Its the same stupid shiat that let McDuff out


The Crime Dog? What was he in prison for?!
 
2014-04-17 06:23:50 PM

JuggleGeek: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Not legally, he did not. See, that's what happens when a conviction is overturned and a sentence vacated. It's like the trial never happened.

They overturned it on a technicality.  There is no evidence that anyone, including his lawyer, is arguing that he didn't commit the murder.

jso2897: Or are you one of those guys who regards the law and the Constitution and stuff like that to be "technicalities"?

Go fark yourself, troll.  What I actually wrote : "It certainly shouldn't have been handled the way it was handled, but there is exactly zero evidence that this guy is actually innocent. "

What you twist it into "You have no regard for the law or the constitution".

Go suck some cock like your daddy taught you.


You were treated that way because you implied he needs to provide evidence of his innocence. That's not how our justice system works on a fundamental level.
 
2014-04-17 06:28:52 PM

JuggleGeek: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Not legally, he did not. See, that's what happens when a conviction is overturned and a sentence vacated. It's like the trial never happened.

They overturned it on a technicality.  There is no evidence that anyone, including his lawyer, is arguing that he didn't commit the murder.

jso2897: Or are you one of those guys who regards the law and the Constitution and stuff like that to be "technicalities"?

Go fark yourself, troll.  What I actually wrote : "It certainly shouldn't have been handled the way it was handled, but there is exactly zero evidence that this guy is actually innocent. "

What you twist it into "You have no regard for the law or the constitution".

Go suck some cock like your daddy taught you.


I read that pretty much straight up accurate, especially after you doubled down on the derp.  You clearly don't care about the law or the constitution.  The prosecution broke the law, hard, so their case was wiped out.  Then the State did, hard, and now a guy who may be a murderer has a potentially damning case.  Heck, he might even walk.  The guy?  He is accused of breaking the law.  Even if he's convicted he could get sentenced to time served and still walk out.

The rules/constitution, how do it work?

/Mikey1969, who invited all the junk-bangers?
//Stealing that, BTW.  Hope you don't mind.
 
2014-04-17 06:38:04 PM

StanTheMan: HemorrhagingKarma: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

FTFA: "On March 4, 1983, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals formally vacated Hartfield's conviction."

Did you RTFA?

Yes I did. And it was because he couldn't get a juror who was against the death penalty? Really?

This PoS should have been needled 30 years ago.


The Governor of Texas Commuted his sentence to time served in 1983.   Even without his conviction being overturned, he should have been released way back then.
 
2014-04-17 06:44:13 PM

Magorn: Delta1212: The judge literally called the 33 years he spent in jail "pre-trial detention."

and further noted the guy didn't seem to mind being locked up. IN PRISON. FOR 30 YEARS, so no harm, no foul... "there is no evidence that Hartfield has suffered any anxiety relating to his pretrial detention."

The decades-long delay in a retrial actually benefited Hartfield, Judge Estlinbaum concluded last week, because it is far less likely today that he will be sentenced to death than it would have been had he been retried in the 1980s. The judge reached this conclusion in the same ruling in which he acknowledged that Hartfield's ability to mount an effective defense has been diminished by the passage of time and the loss of witnesses and evidence.


Homebody go re-animate Gen Sherman, I'm off to buy a shiatload of matches and Kerosene.   It's time.


You remember Sherman's March to the Rio Grande too?
 
2014-04-17 07:39:25 PM

Magorn: according to the Internets an IQ score of 55 put this guy in the "Barely able to function on his own" range and only about 10 points above Chimps or Dolphins.  Not only would it probably be unconstitutional to execute him, but the prosecutor's ability to get a conviction that will stand up on appeal given the lack of witnesses and evidence at this point is virtually nil.  Why the hell is TX willing to take the PR hit and re-try this guy instead of realizing that he's already done 3 decades in jail and basically just spring him for time served


If he can figure out to hide in an attempt to say he didn't get a "speedy trial", I somehow doubt he had an IQ high enough to barely function on his own.  In any event, he might have only hurt his own chances of getting out when he should've, so it is at least clear that he is no genius.
 
2014-04-17 07:42:48 PM

ShadowKamui: ChubbyTiger: limeyfellow: StanTheMan: LordJiro: StanTheMan: Fark him, the murdering scumbag was sentenced to death and should have been executed a long time ago. RTFA.

Because Texas has never sentenced an innocent man to death, right?

Except there is not even an allegation he is innocent, dipwad.

Texas has never officially executed an innocent man. After the execution, all records are sealed and cannot be investigated anymore.

Cameron Todd Willingham. Yes, they have. And this is why, while I'm fine with the death penalty in theory, I am no longer willing to support it in practice.

The key word is offically


Well, he's officially dead.
 
2014-04-17 08:35:01 PM

LarryDan43: 51 is considered a genius in Texas.


Only in College Station.
 
2014-04-17 10:03:11 PM
Texas.

Because F**K YOU YER NOT THE BOSS OF ME BESIDES I AM A CHRISCHTIAN!!
 
2014-04-17 10:13:40 PM

The Homer Tax: You were treated that way because you implied he needs to provide evidence of his innocence. That's not how our justice system works on a fundamental level.


No, I didn't.  I said that he was tried and found guilty.  The case was dropped after that fact due to technicalities, not do to any claims of innocence.  Even then, I also stated that he state screwed up and that it shouldn't be handled this way.

Why do you think that claiming I said crap that I didn't say will go anywhere?  Are you the alt of the known troll?  I know he's a troll.  I don't know  you.

pjkraatz: You clearly don't care about the law or the constitution


You're clearly brain damaged.  You're making up shiat I didn't say.

The prosecution broke the law, hard, so their case was wiped out.  Then the State did, hard, and now a guy who may be a murderer has a potentially damning case.  Heck, he might even walk.  The guy?  He is accused of breaking the law.  Even if he's convicted he could get sentenced to time served and still walk out.

The prosecution screwed up, yes.  Despite your lies, I never denied that.  The state farked up bad, yes.  Again, I never denied that.  In fact, I specifically stated that it should not have been handled the way it was handled.  You can lie about it all you want.

Yes, he might walk.  At this point, he probably should walk.  None of that means that he didn't actually kill the girl.
 
2014-04-17 10:26:39 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Once global warming raises the oceans enough to cover Florida, we WILL get our Texas tag.

So we have that going for us.  Which is nice.


Screw waiting! I think we need a Texas tag ASAP!
 
2014-04-17 11:08:44 PM
So let me get this straight:  If you are severely retarded, you kill somebody and get fairly convicted on the evidence, you get to go free on a technicality?

\\\ Duh.
 
2014-04-17 11:16:01 PM
wtf?
 
2014-04-17 11:27:47 PM

olddinosaur: So let me get this straight:  If you are severely retarded, you kill somebody and get fairly convicted on the evidence, you get to go free on a technicality?

\\\ Duh.


So, when do you get this straight?
 
2014-04-17 11:43:09 PM

olddinosaur: So let me get this straight:  If you are severely retarded, you kill somebody and get fairly convicted on the evidence, you get to go free on a technicality?

\\\ Duh.


If you are mentally handicapped enough to not be able to discern right from wrong, or to make decisions of that nature, then punishment would be useless. Part of the reason for punishment is to penalize the convicted for their transgression against society... but how do you punish someone who can never understand what they did?

There is no "fairly convicted on the evidence", because that would mean the defendant could not only think and decide whether or not to commit the crime, but could understand the possible ramifications of the act. It's the same reason why there's an "insanity" defense... if the voices in your head are screaming loudly enough you will eventually do what they say, and there is nothing anyone can do about that.
 
2014-04-17 11:50:24 PM

Mikey1969: He can't have an effective defense because of a lack of evidence and witness? What the fark?


Simple logic. Without evidence against him, his legal counsel has nothing to refute, no one to question, and nothing to oppose. There is can be no defense because there is no offense. Think of it as a football game where the entire defensive lineup from one team is on the field while the one offensive lineman from the other team that showed up sits on the bench.
 
2014-04-18 02:59:51 AM

keypusher: See pp. 3-7 of the attached for a lot more information on this case.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/JHartfield5Cir.pdf

He has not been convicted of murder. The first trial was ruled invalid due to illegal actions by the prosecutors (In 1980s Texas, consider what sort of actions those entailed).

Since there have been a lot of variations on this post written, from the above document,

In 1977, a Texas jury convicted Jerry Hartsfield of the capital murder of Eunice Lowe.  Jurors sentenced him to death.  Hartfield appealed on numerous grounds.  On September 17, 1980, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals unanimously reversed his conviction.  Hartfield v. State, 645 S.W.2d 436, 441 (Tex. Crim. App. 1980).  The court held that the State had violated Hartfield's constitutional rights by striking a juror for cause because of her reservations about the death penalty.  See Witherspoon v. Texas, 391 U.S. 510, 520-23 (1968); see also Adams v. Texas, 448 U.S. 38, 43-45 (1980) (applying Witherspoon to the specific procedure Texas employs in capital cases).

Witherspoon only affected the sentence and not the determination of guilt.  Nevertheless, Texas law at the time required an entirely new trial in such circumstances.


It sounds more like "Hey do you think black people are evil?" "No." "Request to remove for cause." "Granted."
 
2014-04-18 04:35:25 AM
An IQ of 51 is above average for Texas, so...
 
2014-04-18 03:29:26 PM

Firethorn: My grandmother worked with the mentally disabled. They're generally much better in a highly structured environment than 'normal' people. If you figure that he doesn't associate with the excessively violent prisoners,


How'd that get cut off?

If you figure that he doesn't associate with the excessively violent prisoners, he pretty much has his life set out for him, he doesn't have to worry about where he's going to be sleeping, how he's going to get his next meal, what he's going to wear, paying for all of the above.  What little money he gains is used fairly simply, at the same level as a young child.

rewind2846: If you are mentally handicapped enough to not be able to discern right from wrong, or to make decisions of that nature, then punishment would be useless. Part of the reason for punishment is to penalize the convicted for their transgression against society... but how do you punish someone who can never understand what they did?


If a person is that badly handicapped, permanently, that they can kill people without understanding it's wrong, then they need to be institutionalized anyways.  At that point it's about protection, not punishment.

JuggleGeek: No, I didn't. I said that he was tried and found guilty. The case was dropped after that fact due to technicalities, not do to any claims of innocence. Even then, I also stated that he state screwed up and that it shouldn't be handled this way.


Given the age and location of the case, the fact that they apparently appealed on a number of grounds, the fact that he's at the very least 'slow', I'm not sure that he'd be found guilty in a modern court when provided with competent defense.  I've read about way too many false convictions from that time period, it seems that 'Retarded Black Man' was pretty much an ideal prosecutor target back then.

I'm not saying that he was innocent, just that fixating upon the excluded jurer might have been the 'easy way' for the reviewing court.
 
2014-04-18 09:26:08 PM
The most egregious problem I see is: Instead, public officials in the county where Hartfield had been tried notified the Court of Criminal Appeals that its mandate - to give him a new trial - had been carried out when in fact it had not. Someone got a promotion for closing all of the files, I bet, and no one looked at them again for 30 years.

And that's not changing anytime soon, when this asshat of a DA and judge are up to the same antics. What do you want to bet the judge used to be a DA? Most were. These guys are the reason activists want total house-cleaning from top to bottom, the culture is rotten to the core and infects everyone who enters and grows up in it.
 
2014-04-18 09:35:07 PM

Firethorn: Given the age and location of the case, the fact that they apparently appealed on a number of grounds, the fact that he's at the very least 'slow', I'm not sure that he'd be found guilty in a modern court when provided with competent defense. I've read about way too many false convictions from that time period, it seems that 'Retarded Black Man' was pretty much an ideal prosecutor target back then.


You're seriously impugning the integrity of an upstanding member of the community who got a creepy black man out of the community just to close a case and pander to his constituents' prejudices?
 
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