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(Defense One)   WAR. Huh, good God: What is it good for? Absolutely four things, say it again   (defenseone.com) divider line 135
    More: Interesting, New Nation, United States dollar, assured destruction, preemptive attack  
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9942 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2014 at 10:37 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-17 09:21:37 AM
I am not going to read all that to figure out what those four things are.  Someone do it for me.
 
2014-04-17 09:31:15 AM
Defense One sounds like a nutjob chickenhawk site. Did Rumsfield learn how to use the internets?
 
2014-04-17 09:45:00 AM
Great. Another Trout vs. Cabrera thread.
 
2014-04-17 10:08:06 AM
War means tears to thousands of mother's eyes subby

/whoa, whoa
 
2014-04-17 10:36:51 AM
Rules of Acquisition 34: War is good for business.
 
2014-04-17 10:39:38 AM

sigdiamond2000: Great. Another Trout vs. Cabrera thread.


I lol'd.
 
2014-04-17 10:41:25 AM
I know one thing war is good for. War breeds innovation.
 
2014-04-17 10:41:33 AM

Ghastly: Rules of Acquisition 34: War is good for business.


"Only from a distance. The closer you are to the front lines the less profitable it gets."

076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com
 
2014-04-17 10:43:08 AM
I'm not reading all of that.  Please provide me with an executive summary and bulleted list.
 
2014-04-17 10:43:42 AM
There were entire civilizations built on trade and culture. We don't know very much about what they were like though, because the more warlike ones destroyed their cities and enslaved their people.
 
2014-04-17 10:44:49 AM
What I got from it:  Killing people makes people safer.

East-Asia has always been the enemy, folks.  We have always been at war with East-Asia.
 
2014-04-17 10:46:26 AM
Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.
 
2014-04-17 10:48:44 AM
War, What Is It Good for For? These Four Things, Actually

I was 23 when I almost died in battle.



nope, that doesn't count.  that is only something it was almost good for
 
2014-04-17 10:49:26 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.


3 out of 4 ain't  bad.
 
2014-04-17 10:49:33 AM

mccallcl: There were entire civilizations built on trade and culture. We don't know very much about what they were like though, because the more warlike ones destroyed their cities and enslaved their people.


That's why you garrison a unit in every city and have a few floaters around inside your borders. Also always make sure to agree to open borders with anyone who asks. It can be rough during the beginning, but once you've got your territory sorted out, it's rare that someone will plop a city right in the middle of your domain. Then you can focus on tech and culture and win by space race.
 
2014-04-17 10:49:37 AM

EvilEgg: I am not going to read all that to figure out what those four things are.  Someone do it for me.


This
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-17 10:49:52 AM
I think he's seeing mistaking correlation for cause and effect in part of his discussion. (Didn't read it all.) Communication, transportation, and standard of living affect both war and society.
 
2014-04-17 10:50:29 AM
Translation: Now that we're winding down our two wars from the last 12 years, we really ought to start thinking about where our next one is going to be.
 
2014-04-17 10:50:37 AM

tricycleracer: I'm not reading all of that.  Please provide me with an executive summary and bulleted list.


I'm not either.  But I'll provide MY list, just for fun.

1.  It's good for innovation.  Lots of stuff get invented for the sake of killing and defending.
2.  It's good for the economy.  Lots of stuff is bought and sold.
3.  It's good for population control.  Lots of people get killed.
4.  It's good for the overall stability of the surrounding regions.  Assuming of course, the result of the war is actual peace.
 
2014-04-17 10:51:53 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.


Yeah but now playing dick waving with another nuclear power will only benefit the cockraoches
 
2014-04-17 10:54:04 AM

cefm: What I got from it: Killing people makes people safer.

East-Asia has always been the enemy, folks. We have always been at war with East-Asia.


Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
 
2014-04-17 10:54:14 AM
I prefer Laibach's version.
 
2014-04-17 10:57:39 AM

durbnpoisn: 2.  It's good for the economy.  Lots of stuff is bought and sold.


What is the Broken Window fallacy?

War is good for the state taking more control of the people.  That´s it.
 
2014-04-17 10:58:03 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.

Yeah but now playing dick waving with another nuclear power will only benefit the cockraoches


It worked from 1949 until 1991.
 
2014-04-17 10:59:40 AM
"I was 23 when I almost died in battle."

Now it he had died in battle and then wrote this article, I take the trouble to read it.
 
2014-04-17 10:59:44 AM
Pulled his four summary points....

"The first is that by fighting wars, people have created larger, more organized societies that have reduced the risk that their members will die violently. "
"My second claim is that while war is the worst imaginable way to create larger, more peaceful societies, it is pretty much the only way humans have found. "Lord knows, there's got to be a better way," Edwin Starr sang, but apparently there isn't.  "
"My third conclusion is that as well as making people safer, the larger societies created by war have also-again, over the long run-made us richer."
"War, then, has been good for something-so good, in fact, that my fourth argument is that war is now putting itself out of business."

Honestly, I think he's said at best 3 "reasons" here, 2 seems to be just a reenforcement of 1.  And #4 seems to be less of a reason than the opinion that, eventually we'll have so many war's that we won't need war anymore.
 
2014-04-17 11:00:19 AM
1. Boeing
2. Lockheed Martin
3. General Dynamics
4. Northrop Grumman
 
2014-04-17 11:00:46 AM
So basically he's saying that war causes people to form large societies. These large societies offer protection and prosperity.

And then having proven his point, he helpfully lists who we should fight next in order to get safer and more prosperous.
 
2014-04-17 11:00:51 AM
United Technologies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics.
 
2014-04-17 11:02:27 AM

mccallcl: There were entire civilizations built on trade and culture. We don't know very much about what they were like though, because the more warlike ones destroyed their cities and enslaved their people.


One of his arguments was that none of these civilizations got big enough to develop trade and culture without war. If your tribe starts expanding, the neighboring tribes will push back. They're not going to give up their freedom and join you to create a larger tribe, either. The only way humanity has found to do this so far involves war (or, sometimes, the credible threat of war).
 
2014-04-17 11:03:12 AM

durbnpoisn: tricycleracer: I'm not reading all of that.  Please provide me with an executive summary and bulleted list.

I'm not either.  But I'll provide MY list, just for fun.

1.  It's good for innovation.  Lots of stuff get invented for the sake of killing and defending.
2.  It's good for the economy.  Lots of stuff is bought and sold.
3.  It's good for population control.  Lots of people get killed.
4.  It's good for the overall stability of the surrounding regions.  Assuming of course, the result of the war is actual peace.


1) Money is better spent on NASA, NSF, and NIH
2) It's fundamentally a broken window fallacy
3) Granted.
4) WWI was not good for stability, one might argue
 
2014-04-17 11:03:21 AM

RaiderFanMikeP: 1. Boeing
2. Lockheed Martin
3. General Dynamics
4. Northrop Grumman


This!

Hell my popup was a Lockheed ad about drones. 

Who greened this sales brochure?
 
2014-04-17 11:03:52 AM
I am glad someone finally said it. After 7 years in the United Stated Marine Core I cannot bear to listen to the bleeding hearts tell me how us soldiers are brainwashed killing machines who do as we are told.

Marines are the top of the military for a reason. We are elite soldiers for a reason. And yet, some retarded kid gets into college and I don't just because he is special ED?
 
KIA
2014-04-17 11:04:19 AM
The article posits that the continual threat of external aggression causes societies to become larger and more technological for self-protection.

This is also known as the big-fish, small-pond theory.  It completely overlooks the possibility that there might be an ocean where truly gigantic fish might develop without nearly the same constraints on resources.

Put differently, there are two approaches to solving problems of limited resources.  One is to become the fiercest competitor and drive off or kill everyone else.  The other is to grow and develop resources and distribution methods so there is not a murder-inducing shortage.
 
2014-04-17 11:04:37 AM

Smeggy Smurf: drjekel_mrhyde: Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.

Yeah but now playing dick waving with another nuclear power will only benefit the cockraoches

It worked from 1949 until 1991.


I notice Pakistan and India haven't had a war recently.
 
2014-04-17 11:05:10 AM
The person who wrote this should be forced to fight in the front-line of every war until he dies.
 
2014-04-17 11:05:39 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.


Thanks for today's earworm.
 
2014-04-17 11:05:57 AM

tricycleracer: I'm not reading all of that.  Please provide me with an executive summary and bulleted list.


Whole article is useless.
"my Ph.D. thesis in archaeology"

Backed up by the statement 'I would have been dead within 15 minutes, vaporized in a fireball hotter than the surface of the sun.'

Schmuck knows nothing.
 
2014-04-17 11:05:58 AM
Also, some were wondering about this website.... it is run by the parent company of "The Atlantic", so, you can make your own determination on that, but, it isn't just a "kook set up a website and got someone to make it look nice", there is a "paper media" presence behind it.
 
2014-04-17 11:06:05 AM
Well that was dumb.
 
2014-04-17 11:08:04 AM
I came for Ferengis.

The clothed females, of course.
 
2014-04-17 11:08:18 AM
I figured ware was good only for the unemployment numbers at home.
 
2014-04-17 11:08:51 AM

Smeggy Smurf: drjekel_mrhyde: Smeggy Smurf: Those that say war is good for nothing forget that war ended the Nazis.  It ended American slavery.  It freed America from the yoke of British tyranny.  And it gave us a corny song by Johnny Horton.

Yeah but now playing dick waving with another nuclear power will only benefit the cockraoches

It worked from 1949 until 1991.


The chickhawks want to launch attacks
 
2014-04-17 11:08:54 AM

mama2tnt: I figured ware WAR was good only for the unemployment numbers at home.


ftfm. sigh.
 
2014-04-17 11:09:44 AM

Ghastly: Rules of Acquisition 34: War is good for business.


Is this related to the internet's Rule 34?
 
2014-04-17 11:09:54 AM
1) Newtechnologies
2) Projection of power
3) Murica
4) Kills off people that we don't like, such as their brown people, and our poor people (often also brown)
 
2014-04-17 11:14:26 AM

mccallcl: There were entire civilizations built on trade and culture. We don't know very much about what they were like though, because the more warlike ones destroyed their cities and enslaved their people.


"We don't know very much about what they were like though...", but, you believe that they did not a military cadre, and that the common citizen of the civilizations were not going to fight in the ranks, either conscripted or voluntarily, to protect their civilization?  Well then, name the civilizations we do know about that were built on war only, and where trade and culture did not majorly factor in its development.
 
2014-04-17 11:16:52 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-17 11:17:23 AM

mama2tnt: Ghastly: Rules of Acquisition 34: War is good for business.

Is this related to the internet's Rule 34?


Only if you really like DS9's "Profit & Lace" episode.

/I mean REALLY like.
 
2014-04-17 11:17:46 AM

Agnes Gonxha's Confidant: I am glad someone finally said it. After 7 years in the United Stated Marine Core I cannot bear to listen to the bleeding hearts tell me how us soldiers are brainwashed killing machines who do as we are told.


Despite the fact that I hang out in a fairly liberal forum (Fark) and live in a moderately liberal town, I haven't heard people claim that "soldiers are brainwashed killing machines". I've only heard people complain that other people make that claim. Where do you go where you hear people say these things?


Marines are the top of the military for a reason. We are elite soldiers for a reason. And yet, some retarded kid gets into college and I don't just because he is special ED?

I really don't understand your last sentence. Veterans get tuition assistance. They can get college credit for their military experience. Many colleges have special programs set up to specifically to help veterans.

What, specifically, are you complaining about? You seem to have better access to college than most.
 
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