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(The Raw Story)   Fox News hosts drop the pretense and articulate their real vision of what they want for average Americans "That's what we should have - no labor law and no minimum wage, they work for a dollar a week"   ( rawstory.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Fox News, Eric Bolling, Bob Beckel, Andrea Tantaros, dollars  
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5884 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Apr 2014 at 2:15 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-16 02:28:45 PM  
16 votes:
Not shocked at all.  Look at India.  Look at Mexico.  This is what the Republican party wants.  An inexhaustible supply of dirt cheap labor.  Not for our benefit, of course, but because it'll allow the already disgustingly rich to get even richer.  That's why they've put so much time and effort into limiting the rights of workers to unionize.  That's why they've put so much time and effort into trying to legislate women to the level of breeding cattle.  It's why they've put so much time and effort into weakening our public education system.  It's not religious based, it's not pro-America based, it's profit based.  The people who have the biggest pull are the ones giving the Republicans the most dollars.  And that's not you or me.
2014-04-16 02:38:07 PM  
14 votes:
The Scandinavian countries follow an economic system called the Nordic Model, which is described as a system of competitive capitalism combined with a large public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).  In 2013, The Economist described its countries as "stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies" while also looking for ways to temper capitalism's harsher effects, and declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world."

The model is also described as a "universalist" welfare state (relative to other developed countries) which is aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, promoting social mobility and ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights, as well as for stabilizing the economy; alongside a commitment to free trade. The Nordic model is distinguished from other types of welfare states by its emphasis on maximizing labor force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of income redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.

The United Nations World Happiness Report 2013 shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in Northern Europe. The Nordics ranked highest on the metrics of real GDP per capita, healthy life expectancy, having someone to count on, perceived freedom to make life choices, generosity and freedom from corruption.

So, a system that aims for maximum labor force participation, with healthcare, higher education and housing for all citizens, that results in the happiest overall population and you can still become a millionaire if that's in your cards.  Why can't* the US do what Sweden does?

* because the US is designed more to help Mitt Romney put another million into his tax-free IRA account, and less to ensure that a single parent with two kids has access to affordable housing and healthcare, that's why.
2014-04-16 01:51:31 PM  
10 votes:
Oh for fark's sake. Sure, go for that you assholes. You harp on and on about things like unions without actually knowing a single thing about how they came about. You take away the rights of the workers and they will rise up against you. You're trying so very very hard to be the frontline in the war on communism that you've been fighting since the 1900s. You take away those rights for workers, claim it as a win for capitalism and watch how quickly those workers rise up against you. You'll win the goddamn battle but you'll lose the war.
2014-04-16 02:03:41 PM  
9 votes:
FTFA: "Those are government guys that are actually getting their hours cut back - which I agree with. I would pay all government workers not to work."

Ah, so you're a fan of this Congress then.


Also FTA: "It would be nice if we had that luxury," co-host Dana Perino answered. "But the baby boomers have made sure we are going to be tied to our jobs for the rest of our lives and not benefit from Social Security and Medicare like they did."

Did.. Did a small nugget of truth, however intentional, slip out of a Fox News Host's mouth?

Again FTA: Tantaros then criticized a new French labor agreement allowing for "autonomous employees" in the tech and consulting fields to disconnect from work communications after working 13-hour days.
"Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?" she asked, not mentioning that that hour is not specified anywhere in the agreement.


fark you and your pretense. If I'm not scheduled or ON THE CLOCK, my job has no right to expect me to be available to them.

This guy really burns my ass for some reason. "Why are we looking to Europe, why not China!" Cause China's workforce policies are regressive and horrible? Boardering on slave labour, and pushing the workforce to the point of suicide to such a degree, they need to have safety nets on the side of the building?

But no lets work 14 hour shifts with 4 hours off all for pennies an hour. That sounds FANTASTIC. Why do we want to emulate Europe even though we have a better economy (Something that is debatable.)? Because their quality of life? Generally better than ours! We don't just want to make more money, we want to BE HAPPY.

Sorry, just got a little... aggravated there. How the hell do you even think that...? Be like China.,,
2014-04-16 02:14:21 PM  
8 votes:
between their deep love of vladimir putin and now china, you can really see how far their obama derangement syndrome has gone. i mean, when their deep, visceral, pathological hatred of the black guy pushes them into the arms of current and former communist enemies of the united states... what would saint reagan say if he were alive?
2014-04-16 01:10:58 PM  
8 votes:
This just in: Fox "News" hosts are drooling fascist retards
2014-04-16 03:17:37 PM  
7 votes:

Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."


No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.
2014-04-16 02:43:50 PM  
7 votes:
Population of China: 1.351 billion  people
GDP of China: 8.227 trillion USD

Population of Sweden: 9.517 million people
GDP of Sweden: 525.7 billion USD

China: $6,062 per person
Sweden: $55,2379 per person.

And which country does this guy want us to imitate?
2014-04-16 02:28:37 PM  
7 votes:

Will-Mun: FTFA: "Those are government guys that are actually getting their hours cut back - which I agree with. I would pay all government workers not to work."

Ah, so you're a fan of this Congress then.


Also FTA: "It would be nice if we had that luxury," co-host Dana Perino answered. "But the baby boomers have made sure we are going to be tied to our jobs for the rest of our lives and not benefit from Social Security and Medicare like they did."

Did.. Did a small nugget of truth, however intentional, slip out of a Fox News Host's mouth?

Again FTA: Tantaros then criticized a new French labor agreement allowing for "autonomous employees" in the tech and consulting fields to disconnect from work communications after working 13-hour days.
"Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?" she asked, not mentioning that that hour is not specified anywhere in the agreement.

fark you and your pretense. If I'm not scheduled or ON THE CLOCK, my job has no right to expect me to be available to them.

This guy really burns my ass for some reason. "Why are we looking to Europe, why not China!" Cause China's workforce policies are regressive and horrible? Boardering on slave labour, and pushing the workforce to the point of suicide to such a degree, they need to have safety nets on the side of the building?

But no lets work 14 hour shifts with 4 hours off all for pennies an hour. That sounds FANTASTIC. Why do we want to emulate Europe even though we have a better economy (Something that is debatable.)? Because their quality of life? Generally better than ours! We don't just want to make more money, we want to BE HAPPY.

Sorry, just got a little... aggravated there. How the hell do you even think that...? Be like China.,,


Well not to mention this asshole thinks that if corporations could pay what ever the fark they wanted that profits would soar. The reality is paying people a dollar an hour or hell a dollar a day would cause the value of everything to crash into the dirt. Suddenly that $3 gallon of milk is now only worth $.50 and nobody uses the internet, cell phones, or cars because we can't afford to spend money anything not survival related.

This is a brilliant idea if you want to have 1929 style crash of the economy.
2014-04-16 01:14:39 PM  
7 votes:
Yeah.  China builds ghost cities to keep people employed.  A large percentage of the country is literally employed to do busy work in order to keep the peace.  Something tells me that the brain trust at The Five would shiat the bed if the government were paying people to build giant, empty  metropolii in the middle of the Dakotas.
2014-04-16 01:07:55 PM  
7 votes:
The problem with news people is they have no real education. Say, a History degree. But they're darned proud to demonstrate that shortcoming as often as possible.
2014-04-16 02:29:10 PM  
6 votes:
Big story in the news yesterday: rent in many cities is rising out of reach of workers.  Fox News solution: drop workers' wages.

Seriously, you blind f*ck, explain to me how that will help ANYTHING.  You can't buy f*cking gas to drive back and forth to work for $8/day (gross), much less afford food, housing, insurance, a car, clothing, anything else.  Our society is built around the car; there is not housing near most places of work that employ the bottom of the ladder types.

This man seems like he is simply pure evil, and yet there were no doubt thousands of viewers just eating this sh*t right up.  "Yeah, that's the ticket... Chinese labor practices, Chinese environmental regulations, let's be just like China!"
2014-04-16 02:12:44 PM  
6 votes:
It's amazing how little it takes for conservatives to fawn over KGB dictators and Chinese business practices.
2014-04-16 02:39:48 PM  
5 votes:

edmo: The problem with news people is they have no real education. Say, a History degree. But they're darned proud to demonstrate that shortcoming as often as possible.


If you hold a history degree - and claim that minimum wage and labor laws should be repealed - your degree should be revoked by your alma mater.
2014-04-16 01:24:42 PM  
5 votes:
Bolling has one son. I wonder if he would be willing to have his kid work for $1.00 an hour.

Oh and he's also Roman Catholic. Me thinks the Pope would slap this guy upside the head if they ever met.
2014-04-16 02:44:20 PM  
4 votes:

mcreadyblue: millsapian87: "It would be nice if we had that luxury," co-host Dana Perino answered. %ldquo;But the baby boomers have made sure we are going to be tied to our jobs for the rest of our lives and not benefit from Social Security and Medicare like they did."
That's highly amusing, because surely she knows who REALLY wants to destroy Social Security and Medicare: the GOP.

Well, SS and Medicare are unstable past 20 years and I don't hear the Democrats suggesting the age limits for both be raised to 70.


Because the age was raised in the 80's. It's time we stop insisting that sacrifices for the good of the whole country should only be made by those who can least afford to sacrifice.
This is biblical, people.
2014-04-16 02:34:47 PM  
4 votes:

mcreadyblue: Well, SS and Medicare are unstable past 20 years and I don't hear the Democrats suggesting the age limits for both be raised to 70.


that's because that will just push it back out 20 years. Democrats have been pushing for getting rid of the cap of taxable income to more accurately reflect income these days and *poof* we're pretty fiscally secure.

...oh wait, you're just one of those people that don't like those greedy moochers getting hand outs from the government, aren't you?
2014-04-16 02:30:50 PM  
4 votes:
What the fark do these talking heads do that contribute to American society? What product or service do they provide that is essential to America's success? Why does Eric Bolling deserve to get paid more than $1 a year?

"Some of the economies that are starting to kick our butt, those people work hard,"
"Why does America always want to adopt the policies of the people we beat?"
"They're basically announcing, 'Guess what? We're making it even harder for us to compete with you."


What competition between countries is he alluding to? GDP? GDP per capita? Manufacturing output? Imports vs exports? Average income? Happiness levels? Corporate profits?

Which competition(s) are we winning, which actually affect the average American, and which does the average American actually care about? Stop using vague concepts like "winning" and make a goddamn argument.

Tantaros then criticized a new French labor agreement allowing for "autonomous employees" in the tech and consulting fields to disconnect from work communications after working 13-hour days.

"Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?" she asked, not mentioning that that hour is not specified anywhere in the agreement.



Oh fark you. Unless you're involved in saving lives, that email can wait until tomorrow morning. Or, heaven forbid, Monday morning.
2014-04-16 02:30:00 PM  
4 votes:
FTFA: "Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?"

What the fark does that even mean?  They want robots apparently, or people who are working every second they are awake... we have a word for that... slave.
2014-04-16 07:19:04 PM  
3 votes:

stonicus: FTFA: "Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?"

What the fark does that even mean?  They want robots apparently, or people who are working every second they are awake... we have a word for that... slave.


The Walmart near my last house had a sign: if you have any time commitments such as college, a second job or elderly parents please do not waste our time and yours by applying. We require round the clock availability seven days a week for our flexible scheduling." I memorized that sign because it exemplified the thinking businesses often have of employees. They own you. There is no longer any hiding from it. You are no longer trading hours for dollars but your entire existence.

Things were that way for thousands of years, from the days of Sumeria where the city god owned everything inside including the labor of the people (hence big civic projects were relatively easy like walls and ziggurats) to the factory towns. The unions rebelled, fighting pitched battles in the streets with police and military before the federal government recognized unions as lawful in order to stop the bloodshed.

Between those times more or less openly employers had absolute control over employees.

We are fighting against history with the last century of economic organization. But it is a fight worth fighting for. Every job should have established hours. The rest of the time the employee (at any level) should be able to say or do anything within the bounds of law.
2014-04-16 02:50:14 PM  
3 votes:

Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."


From the article you linked, one of the trade-offs listed by the author: "faster growth rates in exchange for greater inequality."  And there it is in a nutshell. It has nothing to do with "homogeneous societies" (a racial dog whistle if I've ever heard one) or the challenges of administering welfare over large areas/populations. The fact is that our culture praises individualism to the point of making ruthless sociopathy an acceptable philosophy. It's not a practical problem, it's a lack of will to create a more equal society.

Basically a lot of fancy bullsh*t to "got mine, f*ck you".
2014-04-16 02:37:22 PM  
3 votes:

ongbok: What always gets me about these people when they say these things is that they don't seem to realize that they are working for a paycheck also. What is to stop their employer from deciding that they only need to be paid peanuts also? They for some reason think that they are special and don't realize if you can make one person work for peanuts, the same can be done with their job.


They believe that they're special, that they earned their spot through gumption, moxie, pluck, and a bunch of other old-timey words, and that they're worth every penny.

Of course, they also think that graphic that shows various employees' wages - firefighters, cops, teachers, soldiers/airmen/Marines/sailors - as $15-16/hour and then asks "Why should burger-flippers make that much?" makes their point about "lazy entitled moochers", rather than making the Democrats' points that these employees should be able to collectively bargain for a better deal, and that their salaries are set by Legislatures just like the minimum wage is. (And the point that many low-wage jobs are set in relation to minimum-wage laws, meaning EVERYONE's going to see a bump over that 2-year raise.)

So, you know, adjust accordingly.
2014-04-16 02:36:51 PM  
3 votes:
I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.

"The Copper Bosses killed you Joe,
They shot you Joe" says I.
"Takes more than guns to kill a man"
Says Joe "I didn't die"
Says Joe "I didn't die"

"In Salt Lake City, Joe," says I,
Him standing by my bed,
"They framed you on a murder charge,"
Says Joe, "But I ain't dead,"
Says Joe, "But I ain't dead."

And standing there as big as life
and smiling with his eyes.
Says Joe "What they forgot to kill
Went on to organize,
Went on to organize"

From San Diego up to Maine,
in every mine and mill,
Where working men defend their rights,
It's there you'll find Joe Hill,
It's there you'll find Joe Hill!

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.
2014-04-16 02:32:25 PM  
3 votes:
When Fox's camera was rolling
Eric Bolling
Was trolling.

/I give him this benefit of doubt, because no one can possibly be so dumb
2014-04-16 02:30:45 PM  
3 votes:
how have we beat the swedes if they are happier and healthier than we are?
2014-04-16 02:26:13 PM  
3 votes:
I'll bet that Rupert Murdoch would be willing to start this by dropping all of their salaries to $1.00 a week and make them work 14 hours a day. Let's see how that would go over then...
2014-04-16 02:25:33 PM  
3 votes:
Well when the difference between me and my family starving is a bullet to these assholes head, lets just say I have lots of bullets.
2014-04-16 02:22:12 PM  
3 votes:
The GOP loses elections because of their lack of real economic understanding

Fox News wonks should insist that they themselves are paid low wages before recommending others to work for nothing
2014-04-16 08:26:57 PM  
2 votes:
sendtodave:

Basically, social consciousness, and a willingness to help, extends only to "people who are like me."

I think the point you were really trying to make the whole time was this: a very large portion of the controlling interests in America are less socially conscious, and therefore suffer from a deficit of rational self-interest.  This is reflected in the aggregate policy of the United States, both domestic and foreign.

Social consciousness is composes of two related factors: enlightened self-interest in the sense of knowing what works in a society, and how large your in-group is: i.e. who you are willing to sympathize/empathize with (which is the basis of all non-exploitative human relationships).

One can have a highly intricate and beneficial, but exclusionary society (say aristocracy, or badly implemented capitalism), or a really crappy and unenlightened, yet highly egalitarian society (badly implemented socialism).  Neither are desirable or "socially conscious".

Racism is just a symptom of a deeper problem in the American gestalt.  There is a strain of brutish, deliberately anti-intellectual, anti-egalitarian, and outright contemptuous arrogance towards each other that has always run through this country, and it has gotten stronger over the past few decades.
2014-04-16 06:52:46 PM  
2 votes:

bobothemagnificent: Nobody is suggesting we eliminate the minimum wage.


The ranking Republican on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee has expressed, on the record, his support for eliminating the minimum wage. That ain't nobody. And I would imagine he isn't alone with his opinion.
2014-04-16 05:02:15 PM  
2 votes:

sendtodave: udhq: sendtodave: In China, for example, it's Chinese person, and non-Chinese person (foreigner). All other races are "foreigner." Secondarily, urban vs rural. Etc etc on down until you just are at "my family, not my family"

You do realize that China has hundreds of different native ethnicities, right?  And most of them don't care much for the Han.

Oh, sure.

That's part of the "etc.etc."


Yeah, but to argue that China is in any way "homogenous" just couldn't be further from the truth.
2014-04-16 04:44:02 PM  
2 votes:

sendtodave: In China, for example, it's Chinese person, and non-Chinese person (foreigner). All other races are "foreigner." Secondarily, urban vs rural. Etc etc on down until you just are at "my family, not my family"


You do realize that China has hundreds of different native ethnicities, right?  And most of them don't care much for the Han.
2014-04-16 04:03:09 PM  
2 votes:
What could be done to address this? It will probably take generations.

* a tax on wealth

* eisenhower era tax rates

* estate taxes progressive enough to ensure no one is born a billionaire in a dynastic oligarchical family

* educating kids to think

* buy from folks as local as possible

What else? Roll over and take it?
2014-04-16 03:53:58 PM  
2 votes:

sendtodave: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

So the answer is "we have too many black folks and messicans to do things like Sweden". Nice.

You were expecting something else?

Homogeneity breeds a sense of oneness.  Again, look at China.

"Harmonious society."


That's no solution at all. We shouldn't abandon good ideas before we abandon bigotry. Americans are composed of a mixed up gumbo of people from all over the world, most of whom are able to assimilate within a generation. We should be better able than any Nordic country (where diversity is less common) to realize that surface differences aren't all that important.
2014-04-16 03:29:24 PM  
2 votes:

Dr Dreidel: Don't forget about a "non-homogenous population".

I have no idea why or how the homogeneity of a population is correlated with its health or ability to centrally administer (not centrally "plan" - think of it as the difference between writing laws and writing rules) assistance programs, but since the cite comes from Douthat, I have my suspicions about what he means when he says a "homogenous population" will have an easier time of it.


That's my point. No one ever explains why the Swedish model won't work when your population includes brown people. Especially in the US, where new immigrants tend to assimilate faster than immigrants to Europe. Again, sounds like BS or veiled racism.
2014-04-16 03:26:46 PM  
2 votes:
For their raving about a "War on Christmas", the far right is more like Scrooge from the first half of "A Christmas Carol" than they think.

"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

If Scrooge said the final line at CPAC, he'd get a standing ovation.
2014-04-16 02:56:29 PM  
2 votes:
What makes  Eric Bolling think that he won't be one of those people working for a dollar a week?
2014-04-16 02:46:03 PM  
2 votes:
If anything, we need to be outsourcing our business leadership in this country, since we're paying far more than other countries, and seem to be getting poorer and poorer performance in return.
2014-04-16 02:40:27 PM  
2 votes:

factoryconnection: Big story in the news yesterday: rent in many cities is rising out of reach of workers.  Fox News solution: drop workers' wages.

Seriously, you blind f*ck, explain to me how that will help ANYTHING.  You can't buy f*cking gas to drive back and forth to work for $8/day (gross), much less afford food, housing, insurance, a car, clothing, anything else.  Our society is built around the car; there is not housing near most places of work that employ the bottom of the ladder types.

This man seems like he is simply pure evil, and yet there were no doubt thousands of viewers just eating this sh*t right up.  "Yeah, that's the ticket... Chinese labor practices, Chinese environmental regulations, let's be just like China!"


Work dormitories. Why should workers even be leaving the office? Just have cots in the corner so they don't waste any company time "commuting".

Also, if workers can't afford to buy needed items at stores, the company should just open up their own stores in which employees can better spend their money. After employees realize how great this is, they'll end up spending all their money at these stores of the company, so might as well simplify things and pay them with money that can only be used at these locations. Just makes sense.
2014-04-16 02:37:28 PM  
2 votes:
Why is it that your average idiot who believes this shiat thinks they will be at the top living the good life and not living a shiat life as slave labor.
Do they think that the only people that will make shiat for money and have no quality of life will be all the welfare cheats or something
Go ahead live in a country like China but the odds are not in your favor for benefiting from the system of treating workers like property.
2014-04-16 02:33:55 PM  
2 votes:
I'm totally surprised Fox News would look to a communist authoritarian regime to model their labor laws after.
2014-04-16 02:28:23 PM  
2 votes:
"It would be nice if we had that luxury," co-host Dana Perino answered. %ldquo;But the baby boomers have made sure we are going to be tied to our jobs for the rest of our lives and not benefit from Social Security and Medicare like they did."
That's highly amusing, because surely she knows who REALLY wants to destroy Social Security and Medicare: the GOP.
2014-04-16 02:19:56 PM  
2 votes:
Please send him to China to do the news.
He'll love it.
2014-04-16 01:56:43 PM  
2 votes:

somedude210: Oh for fark's sake. Sure, go for that you assholes. You harp on and on about things like unions without actually knowing a single thing about how they came about. You take away the rights of the workers and they will rise up against you. You're trying so very very hard to be the frontline in the war on communism that you've been fighting since the 1900s. You take away those rights for workers, claim it as a win for capitalism and watch how quickly those workers rise up against you. You'll win the goddamn battle but you'll lose the war.



They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there;
You'll either be a union man,
Or a thug for J. H. Blair.

Which side are you on?
Which side are you on boys ?
Which side are you on?

Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can.
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?
2014-04-16 01:34:37 PM  
2 votes:
Oh yes.  Take labor practice concept from China.  That's a great idea.  It'll be a boon to the Suicide Prevention Netting Company of Toledo, Ohio.


No one will ever accuse Eric of being a rational human being, he qualifies for neither.
2014-04-17 06:17:17 AM  
1 vote:

bobothemagnificent: Lastly, for everyone, I would say that productivity is a very complex issue. Besides just labor laws and minimum wage, which is really meant for teenagers getting summer jobs and the like, not for adults trying to live (I would support a 2 tier minimum wage- 1 for minors, 1 for adults), you have to look at cultural attitudes towards work. We work hard in America and have a work ethic that goes all the way back to those Puritan bastages who settled here. If you want to blame anyone for not having 31 paid days off, paid maternity leave, etc., blame the Puritans. The problem that I see today is that same work ethic is simply non-existent in today's society in America like it used to be. There is a sense of entitlement that exists on some level in each succeeding generation.


First, you realize we perceive there are jobs meant for teenagers now because at one time jobs were so plentiful and advancement was generally a given that only the most truly indolent adults were stuck in them.

Second, as for cultural attitudes towards work...Americans work more hours or comparable to any first world country. Our workforce is more educated and more productive than at any time in our history. This is a systemic problem with our shiatty version of capitalism, not a cultural one.

Third, as for this sense of entitlement in gen Y, they should expect more than their parents had, this has always been a virtue in America. However they have more debt, fewer opportunities, lower pay, a higher cost of living, and are badgered by know nothing people like you that have no understanding of the real problems within our economy.
2014-04-17 01:40:29 AM  
1 vote:

whidbey: bobothemagnificent: You can't compare China and U.S., the cultures are radically different.

Oh please. The only difference is that Chinese industry pays its workers crap wages.

Stop talking shiat.

In China you can pay them next to nothing because when you have nothing, that pittance is better than what they have now.

You mean they can get away with it because there aren't minimum wage laws.

Dude you are the ultimate elitist.


China does have a minimum wage, you know.  Their economy is also crap.  Of all the countries to emulate, China is definitely not it.
2014-04-16 07:57:32 PM  
1 vote:

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.


One minor issue I can see is Sweden doesn't have the vast population skewing that the US has. It's easier to do things well when you have something akin to California and few free riders like almost everything between the Rockies and the Mississippi river. Paying to support, defend, feed, and otherwise deal with "flyover" areas is a major cost drain for the US.

That being said, the US shouldn't be adopting the Nordic model exactly as written, but we could certainly move a little more in the socialist direction and solve a hell of a lot of problems.
2014-04-16 07:14:33 PM  
1 vote:

bobothemagnificent: Nobody in the article is suggesting that.


Great. Yet some members of Congress are. They would eliminate the minimum wage given the chance. So let's not pretend that because some dickbag on Fox danced around the issue that there aren't people in actual positions of power who are in support of no minimum wage.
2014-04-16 07:14:30 PM  
1 vote:
bobothemagnificent: In China you can pay them next to nothing because when you have nothing, that pittance is better than what they have now.

So, the American poor is too rich, is what you are saying.
2014-04-16 06:32:45 PM  
1 vote:

Evil Twin Skippy: Quasar: It's amazing how little it takes for conservatives to fawn over KGB dictators and Chinese business practices.

To be fair, the conservatives back before WWII were also utterly in love with the Facists.  http://suite.io/ivan-castro/5vjk28x


Which is one reason why 'The Business Plot' was even thought of back during FDR.  Hell, if it hadn't been for a general with actual love for his country, they might have actually succeeded.
2014-04-16 06:24:24 PM  
1 vote:

Serious Black: UrukHaiGuyz: sendtodave: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

So the answer is "we have too many black folks and messicans to do things like Sweden". Nice.

You were expecting something else?

Homogeneity breeds a sense of oneness.  Again, look at China.

"Harmonious society."

That's no solution at all. We shouldn't abandon good ideas before we abandon bigotry. Americans are composed of a mixed up gumbo of people from all over the world, most of whom are able to assimilate within a generation. We should be better able than any Nordic country (where diversity is less common) to realize that surface differences aren't all that important.

That's the problem word right there. Just because we think something should be done doesn't mean it will be done. And a lot of people have different opinions on what should be done. I suspect there is a not-so-insignificant number of people in America that think we should bring back slavery to civilize the heathen.


Seeing how members of a certain political party and political way of thought have continued to argue that 'slavery wasn't so bad' and that if their constituents asked him to, that he would 'vote to reinstate slavery', I think you're right on the money with that thought.
2014-04-16 06:07:23 PM  
1 vote:

The_Man_On_The_Phone: This is not the early 1900s.  Without a minimium wage people would not be making a "dollar a week."  That's BS.   It would be around 3-4 dollars an hour


Oh, well THAT changes everything!
2014-04-16 05:49:18 PM  
1 vote:
It sounds like the 'tard from Fox is ready to volunteer to work for $1 for the rest of his life.  Let's see how that works out.

Sounds like the goal of all conservatives is to have the US turn into a third world banana republic.  No surprise given how GW and the republicans did a fine job of that during their six year reign of idiocy.
2014-04-16 05:25:36 PM  
1 vote:

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Racist commentators will say the Nordic system works because it's homogeneous, not because of anything within the structure itself.


Besides the fact that Scandinavia is not at all homogeneous, the aforementioned naysayers also go with, "because (Scandinavia is different from the US in some ways) we can't possibly implement the smallest part of the Nordic Model in the US nope nossir noway."

I certainly agree that the US would not end up EXACTLY LIKE SWEDEN, and it never will be, but most Americans would be a lot better off if the US ended up more like Sweden than it is right now.  Let's take a few baby steps and see what happens, hmmm?
2014-04-16 05:24:06 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Tibetans are seen as backwards children that need education and modernization.

Like us and the Indians last century.


The Han view every minority in China as backwards and inferior.
2014-04-16 05:17:54 PM  
1 vote:

udhq: sendtodave: No, it's still pretty much true, from an outsider's perspective. Which is a valid perspective. Outsiders are outsiders, they are the farthest "them" in "us versus them."

Does China have a million other ways to slice "us" versus "them?" Sure. Everyone does. But one of the primary ones is racial. One of the minority peoples would feel closer kinship with a Han person than with a black person, for example.

No.

Most Non-Han don't recognize such a thing as a "Chinese" national identity.  Heck, some of them like the Tibetans don't even recognize themselves as part of China.


Tibetans are seen as backwards children that need education and modernization.

Like us and the Indians last century.
2014-04-16 05:16:59 PM  
1 vote:
From my experience in China, some rings of who "us" is, in order:

People from the same village/city
People from the same Provence
---
Han Chinese people in China
Minority Chinese people in China
Chinese people around the world
---
foreigners (Chinese that don't speak the language)
foreigners (white)
foreigners (Korean)
foreigners (not white)
foreigners (black)
foreigners (Japanese)

I'm missing a bunch.  But, anyway, if the "chocolate city" of Africans in Guangzhou suddenly became citizens, poof!  Most Chinese would not fight for their equality.
2014-04-16 05:16:53 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: No, it's still pretty much true, from an outsider's perspective. Which is a valid perspective. Outsiders are outsiders, they are the farthest "them" in "us versus them."

Does China have a million other ways to slice "us" versus "them?" Sure. Everyone does. But one of the primary ones is racial. One of the minority peoples would feel closer kinship with a Han person than with a black person, for example.


No.

Most Non-Han don't recognize such a thing as a "Chinese" national identity.  Heck, some of them like the Tibetans don't even recognize themselves as part of China.
2014-04-16 05:11:22 PM  
1 vote:

El Pachuco: The Scandinavian countries follow an economic system called the Nordic Model, which is described as a system of competitive capitalism combined with a large public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).  In 2013, The Economist described its countries as "stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies" while also looking for ways to temper capitalism's harsher effects, and declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world."

The model is also described as a "universalist" welfare state (relative to other developed countries) which is aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy, promoting social mobility and ensuring the universal provision of basic human rights, as well as for stabilizing the economy; alongside a commitment to free trade. The Nordic model is distinguished from other types of welfare states by its emphasis on maximizing labor force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of income redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.

The United Nations World Happiness Report 2013 shows that the happiest nations are concentrated in Northern Europe. The Nordics ranked highest on the metrics of real GDP per capita, healthy life expectancy, having someone to count on, perceived freedom to make life choices, generosity and freedom from corruption.

So, a system that aims for maximum labor force participation, with healthcare, higher education and housing for all citizens, that results in the happiest overall population and you can still become a millionaire if that's in your cards.  Why can't* the US do what Sweden does?

* because the US is designed more to help Mitt Romney put another million into his tax-free IRA account, and less to ensure that a single parent with two kids has access to affordable housing and healthcare, that's why.


Racist commentators will say the Nordic system works because it's homogeneous, not because of anything within the structure itself.
2014-04-16 04:41:10 PM  
1 vote:

GoldSpider: UrukHaiGuyz: How can you not see the parallels?


Because working conditions now don't bear any resemblance to then, due in no small part because of the efforts of unions.


And here we are discussing an article where pundits are openly advocating the repeal of those hard-won gains. I'm not saying it's perfectly analogous to the turn of the last century, but the levers of power have shifted dramatically back in favor of capital and against the workers. The backlash should be unsurprising to anyone with a sense of history.
2014-04-16 04:40:46 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Who, me? I'd love it.

I'm just not going to pretend that racism doesn't exist, and wouldn't be a real barrier, though, when it kinda even is in the model country.


This reminds me of the people in 2008 who were going on TV and saying things like "Oh, I would absolutely vote for a black president, I just don't think the rest of the country is ready."
2014-04-16 04:31:12 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: GoodDoctorB: sendtodave: UrukHaiGuyz: It works wherever it's instituted. The practicality of the system is not tied to the level of its acceptance. Unless you reach a point where the majority wants to scrap it just to spite the "others", it's still working as intended, even if with vocal opposition.

But it tends to have failed when it required social control and central management to try and make it work.

BE EQUAL OR FACE HARSH CONSEQUENCES.

You basically have to reprogram people.

You also don't apparently understand the Northern European model very well.

I was referring more to the Eastern models, there.


So you're criticizing apples by describing oranges.
2014-04-16 04:25:48 PM  
1 vote:

coyo: What could be done to address this? It will probably take generations.

* a tax on wealth

* eisenhower era tax rates

* estate taxes progressive enough to ensure no one is born a billionaire in a dynastic oligarchical family

* educating kids to think

* buy from folks as local as possible

What else? Roll over and take it?


Universal education. If you aren't getting a post-secondary education, it shouldn't be because you can't afford it.

Universal healthcare, with special emphasis on mental health.

End the War on Drugs, decriminalizing of many drugs like marijuana. Certain drugs like LSD should require a license to purchase, similar to alcohol. Drugs which are made through intense manufacturing, e.g. cocaine, should stay illegal. All non-violent drug offenders should get rehabilitation.

Overturn Citizens United, limiting the amount of money political campaigns can receive.

Reinforce the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
2014-04-16 04:17:56 PM  
1 vote:

UrukHaiGuyz: We've beaten the racists before, and there's no reason we can't again.


pbs.twimg.com
2014-04-16 04:13:55 PM  
1 vote:

GoldSpider: sdd2000: Yes let's go back to this.

[img.fark.net image 500x358]

and this

[img.fark.net image 250x220]

Talk to any union shill and he'll tell you nothing has changed since then.


Oh, bullshiat...

Any "Union Shill" is going to be talking about the changes in the country since those days and how the unions were instrumental in ushering in those changes.

They might complain that the efforts from certain quarters in this country are trying to bring back those days (and they may have a point in some instances), however.
2014-04-16 04:10:40 PM  
1 vote:

Will-Mun: Also FTA: "It would be nice if we had that luxury," co-host Dana Perino answered. "But the baby boomers have made sure we are going to be tied to our jobs for the rest of our lives and not benefit from Social Security and Medicare like they did."

Did.. Did a small nugget of truth, however intentional, slip out of a Fox News Host's mouth?


Perrino was part of the George W. Bush team who were trying to destroy social security.  She's still mad that they didn't succeed.
2014-04-16 04:08:58 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: You were expecting something else?

Homogeneity breeds a sense of oneness.  Again, look at China.

"Harmonious society."


I grew up in southern California and never had any problems with my Hispanic neighbors. I played with their kids, dated their daughters, and worked with their sons. The only thing that stands out in my memory where we diverged was that I could never get used to menudo which they teased me about relentlessly.

You know where I did have a problem with me neighbors? The midwest. I wasn't local. I was an outsider. Sure I was as pale as the rest of them but I wasn't from around those parts. It wasn't enough that I was white and had a good job and a family, I grew up somewhere else and so I was an outsider. Hell, even the South is more welcoming to a southern California transplant. What's funny here in the South is that the Hispanic transplants are surprised as hell to hear me address their kids as mijo and mija.
2014-04-16 04:01:18 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Tigger: sendtodave: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.

The Scandinavian model works as long as everyone is Scandinavian.  Even there, friction comes up once you introduce a growing minority population of Brown People.

This is one of my all time favorite bits of right wing anti-american farkwittage. "It's just too hard for us to do here". farking man up and say "I just don't want that". Don't pretend it can't happen for bullshiat reasons you' just invented. farking OWN YOUR POSITIONS.

Who, me?  I'd love it.

I'm just not going to pretend that racism doesn't exist, and wouldn't be a real barrier, though, when it kinda even is in the model country.


How do you explain the UK then where there are huge immigrant populations going back anywhere between 1,000 years (Normans) and a couple of years (poland and romania)
2014-04-16 04:00:56 PM  
1 vote:

Aldon: The point is...YOU see them as homogeneous, THEY have split themselves up in ways you will never know.


Sure.

AN OVERVIEW OF SOCIAL DOMINANCE THEORY
The trimorphic structure of group-based social hierarchy

Social dominance theory argues that societies producing stable economic surplus contain three qualitatively distinct systems of group-based hierarchy: (1) an age system, in which adults have disproportionate social power over children; (2) a gender system, in which men have disproportionate social, political, and military power compared to women; and (3) an arbitrary-set system, in which groups constructed on ''arbitrary'' bases, that is, on bases not linked to the human life-cycle, have differential access to things of positive and negative social value. Arbitrary-set groups may be defined by social distinctions meaningfully related to power, such as (in various contexts) nationality, ''race'', ethnicity, class, estate, descent, religion, or clan. Parallel trimorphic structures (based on age, sex, and coalitions) are found in chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and baboons (Kawanaka, 1982, 1989; Nadler, 1988; Rowell, 1974; Strier, 1994). Such a social organisation may help primate societies transmit skills, knowledge, and ideas, while also transmitting roles and power.


There are a million arbitrary in-groups and out-groups.  Race is just one.  Just it's a big one.
2014-04-16 04:00:36 PM  
1 vote:

HawgWild: So ... they are for communism and socialism?

So confused ...


I'd like to travel back in time to Reagan's first inauguration and announce that 34 years later conservatives will say that the countries we should emulate are Russia and China, and that their favorite world leader will be the ex-KGB dictator of Russia.
2014-04-16 03:59:27 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: French Canadians don't exactly see themselves the same as other Canadians, and vice versa.

Most Brits I've met don't have a high opinion of Bangladeshi immigrants, etc.


And yet they manage to continue to have a universal healthcare system, do they not? Or am I missing something here?
2014-04-16 03:57:43 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: UrukHaiGuyz: sendtodave: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: veiled racism

Yes.  You got it.  That's exactly why it won't work.

Explain how or shove off. It makes no sense just to say it won't work "because racists". Do you have any kind of logical reasoning behind how that affects welfare administration?

Do the people ... the racist, racist people.. get a say in how it is administered?  That is, are we talking a democratic country here?


Wait, are you saying the people in Sweden or other n Europe countries are not racist?

EVERY group of people have some form of racism/bigotry...even if they look all the same to you.

Some people are more self aware than others but if you have a chance prod a foreign friend. You may be shocked to hear about the hill people, or the Catholics or the gypsies....etc

The point is...YOU see them as homogeneous, THEY have split themselves up in ways you will never know.
2014-04-16 03:57:16 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Tigger: sendtodave: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.

The Scandinavian model works as long as everyone is Scandinavian.  Even there, friction comes up once you introduce a growing minority population of Brown People.

This is one of my all time favorite bits of right wing anti-american farkwittage. "It's just too hard for us to do here". farking man up and say "I just don't want that". Don't pretend it can't happen for bullshiat reasons you' just invented. farking OWN YOUR POSITIONS.

Who, me?  I'd love it.

I'm just not going to pretend that racism doesn't exist, and wouldn't be a real barrier, though, when it kinda even is in the model country.


So you're saying that Swedes can manage their system even with clear issues with racism? Do you just think America is so much more racist than Sweden that it can't work here? Or that the system the Swedes use is not the Swedish system?

It's really a terrible objection that falls apart under even the most minor amount of scrutiny.
2014-04-16 03:52:00 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

So the answer is "we have too many black folks and messicans to do things like Sweden". Nice.

You were expecting something else?

Homogeneity breeds a sense of oneness.  Again, look at China.

"Harmonious society."


How do you explain social democracies like Canada and the UK then?
2014-04-16 03:48:10 PM  
1 vote:
Slavery could be legal again and companies would still send jobs to China due to lax environmental regulations.

No one wins in a race to the bottom.
2014-04-16 03:37:15 PM  
1 vote:

sendtodave: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: veiled racism

Yes.  You got it.  That's exactly why it won't work.


Explain how or shove off. It makes no sense just to say it won't work "because racists". Do you have any kind of logical reasoning behind how that affects welfare administration?
2014-04-16 03:27:24 PM  
1 vote:

Dr Dreidel: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.

Don't forget about a "non-homogenous population".

I have no idea why or how the homogeneity of a population is correlated with its health or ability to centrally administer (not centrally "plan" - think of it as the difference between writing laws and writing rules) assistance programs, but since the cite comes from Douthat, I have my suspicions about what he means when he says a "homogenous population" will have an easier time of it.


My suspicion is that he means a number of white people in America don't want to help those heathen ni-BONGs and those greasy beaners.
2014-04-16 03:24:08 PM  
1 vote:

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

No one ever offers a real explanation why the Northern European model wouldn't work in the US, only some vague crap about how it won't scale to a country the size of the US. But every time two corporations want to merge they use the rationale that "economies of scale" will result in more efficiency and lower costs. But you can't upscale the Swedish model to fit the US because it will result in less efficiency and higher costs. Smells like BS to me.


Don't forget about a "non-homogenous population".

I have no idea why or how the homogeneity of a population is correlated with its health or ability to centrally administer (not centrally "plan" - think of it as the difference between writing laws and writing rules) assistance programs, but since the cite comes from Douthat, I have my suspicions about what he means when he says a "homogenous population" will have an easier time of it.
2014-04-16 03:20:42 PM  
1 vote:
Fine.  We'll start with you FOX news assholes.  The first one to biatch about it gets a bullet in the head.  So does the last one.
2014-04-16 03:09:14 PM  
1 vote:

Rhaab: Don'tcha just love how (according to people like the guy you linked to) American Exceptionalism will let us accomplish anything we put our minds to, except when it comes to pulling off something that other countries have been doing for years, or even decades?

"We're Number One! We're smarter than everyone else! We're better than everyone else! We're special!"
"So why can't we do like other countries?"
"Um... we're too special."


Jster422: Okay, so we can't necessarily just copy and paste overnight, sure - but 'There's more of us' and 'We have minorities' aren't terribly clear arguments against an organizational system that has been proven to work.


I wouldn't disagree with either of these points.
2014-04-16 03:09:00 PM  
1 vote:

mcreadyblue: Well, SS and Medicare are unstable past 20 years and I don't hear the Democrats suggesting the age limits for both be raised to 70.


Remove the FICA cap and cap payouts at median income and the "problem" is solved for the next century.
2014-04-16 02:58:54 PM  
1 vote:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: Fox "News" hosts are drooling fascist retards


And also hypocrites because you know they don't really work all that hard.


Also, re: "Who would hire someone that can shut off and [do] whatever they want after six o'clock?"

They think no one should be able to do whatever they want when they're not at work? Who thinks like that?

Wow. Just... wow.
2014-04-16 02:54:52 PM  
1 vote:

UrukHaiGuyz: Serious Black: I do appreciate your answer, but here's one straight from the horse's mouth as to why we can't do it: "[A] lot of liberal proposals essentially ask us to assume that American government - the quasi-imperial government of a vast, diverse, immigrant-heavy continent of three hundred million people - can somehow, in some future dispensation, approach the efficiency of welfare states administered on a much smaller scale and for a much more homogenous population."

From the article you linked, one of the trade-offs listed by the author: "faster growth rates in exchange for greater inequality." And there it is in a nutshell. It has nothing to do with "homogeneous societies" (a racial dog whistle if I've ever heard one) or the challenges of administering welfare over large areas/populations. The fact is that our culture praises individualism to the point of making ruthless sociopathy an acceptable philosophy. It's not a practical problem, it's a lack of will to create a more equal society.

Basically a lot of fancy bullsh*t to "got mine, f*ck you".


Yeah, too bad that the fastest the American economy has ever grown coincided with the lowest levels of inequality we ever had.
2014-04-16 02:47:44 PM  
1 vote:

somedude210: Oh for fark's sake. Sure, go for that you assholes. You harp on and on about things like unions without actually knowing a single thing about how they came about. You take away the rights of the workers and they will rise up against you. You're trying so very very hard to be the frontline in the war on communism that you've been fighting since the 1900s. You take away those rights for workers, claim it as a win for capitalism and watch how quickly those workers rise up against you. You'll win the goddamn battle but you'll lose the war.


That right there. I'm almost in favor of this, just to see the heads on pikes.
2014-04-16 02:45:07 PM  
1 vote:

Wade_Wilson: Population of China: 1.351 billion  people
GDP of China: 8.227 trillion USD

Population of Sweden: 9.517 million people
GDP of Sweden: 525.7 billion USD

China: $6,062 per person
Sweden: $55,237 per person.

And which country does this guy want us to imitate?


FTFM. Left out a decimal.
2014-04-16 02:44:52 PM  
1 vote:

Car_Ramrod: factoryconnection: Big story in the news yesterday: rent in many cities is rising out of reach of workers.  Fox News solution: drop workers' wages.

Seriously, you blind f*ck, explain to me how that will help ANYTHING.  You can't buy f*cking gas to drive back and forth to work for $8/day (gross), much less afford food, housing, insurance, a car, clothing, anything else.  Our society is built around the car; there is not housing near most places of work that employ the bottom of the ladder types.

This man seems like he is simply pure evil, and yet there were no doubt thousands of viewers just eating this sh*t right up.  "Yeah, that's the ticket... Chinese labor practices, Chinese environmental regulations, let's be just like China!"

Work dormitories. Why should workers even be leaving the office? Just have cots in the corner so they don't waste any company time "commuting".

Also, if workers can't afford to buy needed items at stores, the company should just open up their own stores in which employees can better spend their money. After employees realize how great this is, they'll end up spending all their money at these stores of the company, so might as well simplify things and pay them with money that can only be used at these locations. Just makes sense.



Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you
Then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
2014-04-16 02:39:19 PM  
1 vote:

Dr Dreidel: "But what if they took six hours and it turned out that they were getting more productivity and they were doing a better job?" Beckel asked, once again pushing back.

[img.4plebs.org image 300x225]


That's two independent thought alarms in one day. The hosts must be overstimulated. Willie, remove all the colored chalk from the sets.
2014-04-16 02:37:44 PM  
1 vote:
Hmm, I suspect most Fox News listeners would be against infrastructure spending like what China is doing...
2014-04-16 02:35:46 PM  
1 vote:
Yes let's go back to this.

img.fark.net

and this

img.fark.net
2014-04-16 02:29:03 PM  
1 vote:
What always gets me about these people when they say these things is that they don't seem to realize that they are working for a paycheck also. What is to stop their employer from deciding that they only need to be paid peanuts also? They for some reason think that they are special and don't realize if you can make one person work for peanuts, the same can be done with their job.
2014-04-16 01:43:34 PM  
1 vote:

Dinki: Bolling has one son. I wonder if he would be willing to have his kid work for $1.00 an hour.

Oh and he's also Roman Catholic. Me thinks the Pope would slap this guy upside the head if they ever met.


I would pay all of my meager money to see that happen.
2014-04-16 01:19:56 PM  
1 vote:
A simplistic analysis that can barely adhere to the surface of the issue, leading to wildly incorrect conclusions?  From Fox News, no less?

Well slap my ass and call me "Sally."
 
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