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(Guardian)   Local billionaires think it's wrong that there are people who sleep in cars in Silicon Valley because they are homeless, and want to improve their quality of life   (theguardian.com ) divider line 432
    More: Asinine, homeless  
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12386 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2014 at 12:15 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-16 03:19:50 PM  

LeroyBourne: One time my sister tried to give a hobo her left over Chinese food


Not even hobos are willing to take such a massive risk of contracting "social diseases."
 
2014-04-16 03:20:34 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Having lived in my car in Palo Alto, I'm obligated to post something here. My circumstance was slightly different... I was (am) gainfully employed, but found myself in a situation where I didn't have housing. It was a strange feeling being between places. I couch surfed a little bit, but I felt uncomfortable being in other people's good graces and thought to myself I could just tough it out while waiting on the new place. What are you gonna do? Rent a hotel/motel room for a month while waiting for your new place to open up? A month is a long time to live on someone else's couch. Plus, where I worked they had pretty amenable facilities (bathroom with shower).

But I still had to worry about where I parked my car as not to arouse suspicion.

I've lived in the Silicon Valley all my life, and barring the traffic and hipsters, I love the place and have no desire to leave. But it can be very hard to afford to live here. I make good enough money that if I only had myself to worry about, I could easily rent a small place and maybe save up for home ownership... oh nevermind. I'll never be able to afford a home here unless I start earning six figures. Like the rest of the middle class home shoppers, I'll have to look over the hills outside of the valley to get a home.

But our homeless. What to say about the homeless here? Some are aggressive panhandlers, even in residential neighborhoods. Some are just your typical stinky and hopeless downtrodden folk. Some are grifters working the freeway exits and then getting picked up at the day's end. But there definitely more people who got economic-downturned. It's becoming a thing. Living in your car is a way to climb back out... pinching the pennies to keep from losing everything. I could have lived in a motel and racked up some significant debt, hoping to dig my way back out of that. Or I could have sucked it up and just overstayed my welcome at friends' houses (doing what I could to mitigate any resentment... chores around the hou ...


Palo Alto should also pass a law making it illegal to live in any dwelling that is worth less than 2.5 million.
 
2014-04-16 03:20:50 PM  

bunner: It's pretty much a fact that MOST of the money taken in by charities ends up on the ledger as "administrative expenses".


If people had any idea, just how little of the money they give to some of these charities, actually went to helping the cause, they'd stop giving.

I am only giving to the American Red Cross, and Toys for Tots, because of their demonstrable acts of giving.

pippi longstocking: Sadly, this is probably more helpful than any current program.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fkyf9UGAE

Poverty is an imbedded structural feature of our current system. It's not a negative side-effect, it's a direct consequence of how the system and law is structured. It's like saying 200 years ago "Slavery bad? I treat my slaves very well, and give them extra food, so you see there is no problem."

You might argue if it's intentional or not, but look at history and tell me when and where society hasn't been like a pyramid, all the wealth and resources in the hands of few and the rest at the bottom.

So please tell me why I'm wrong, or please explain to me (cause I'm stupid) why things have to be this way, and we can't structurally get rid of this.


Kindly peddle your common sense elsewhere.

There will always be people who don't make the best life choices. Many will end up homeless, victims of their own making. I am getting a kick out of those in this thread who have been homeless, and have a job.

Seattle has hipsters living in tents, because the price of rent is almost as bad as SV. There are shelters, that have room, but they don't allow pets, drugs, or violence.

This may change, as a recent legal amendment will allow for civil commitment of some of these victims of society.

Yes, I do feel heartless because I can't help everyone, and because I think some people should be protected from themselves, but that is also the most compassionate thing we can do.

Just like I beseech people to spay and neuter stray animals, not to feed them, as it attracts problem pests, I'd ask others to spay, or neuter their weird friends.
 
2014-04-16 03:22:26 PM  

pedrop357: bunner: pedrop357: The moron I was replying to had a great idea to retrofit an unused building to serve as a housing solution

Thanks for letting the other shoe drop so loudly.  One more and you can dance with the mods, Demosthenes.

This is me making my scared face.


This is me pointing out that the preponderance of the ostensibly high minded users of this forum come here for the singular purpose of blowing dime store insults at people from behind their mother's skirts and try to palm it off as some sort of unimpeachable posture of intellectual rectitude.  Kind of pathetic, really.  But if it's the only thing i one's life that gives one leeway to be a jerk, and being a jerk is how they get their sense of self worth, I suppose pathetic is inconsequential.
 
2014-04-16 03:22:42 PM  

Diogenes: If you can afford a car you're not poor.


1. Person works, buys car.
2. Car is paid off.
3. Person is laid off from job, can't pay rent, moves into car
4. Internet forum poster Diogenes types stupid remark in response to news story.

The world continues to spin.

/what, you think everything purchased and paid for by someone when they are working miraculously disappears if they lose their job?
//physics doesn't work like that
 
2014-04-16 03:24:05 PM  

BigNumber12: meat0918: And yes, I'll pay more in taxes to support such a solution.

They know you will. And they keep throwing taxpayer money at the problem. Spend a few days strolling around San Francisco to see how well that's succeeded in "solving" homelessness.


The solution to lowering homelessness will involving lowering income inequality.

Or do what Utah does nationwide, and just give people that are having trouble a home and a caseworker.  Might actually be cheaper than jail.
 
2014-04-16 03:25:38 PM  

caddisfly: Prior to Reagan the federal government housed, fed, and clothed the vast majority of folks who are unable to support themselves due to mental illness.


Against their will. Funny how people always forget that part. Surely Nurse Ratched would fix them right up, or at least keep them out of our sight, which is what all of you actually want.
 
2014-04-16 03:26:48 PM  

meat0918:  Might actually be cheaper than jail.



It is amazingly cheaper than jail.  Just not as profitable.  Jails, I might add, are largely not the sort of places that zoning and housing authorities would be likely to pronounce long term habitable.  They sho nuff pay a lot of bills, though.  Homelessness is, fyou see, like anything that survives more than a week in America, an industry.
 
2014-04-16 03:27:09 PM  

pedrop357: Adss2009: You could substitute rebellion for socialism with no change. Americans refuse to impose anything on millionaires because they insist they will become one one day and don't want to have to live by those rules.

There are a lot of things I'm never going to be, but I won't be imposing rules on them I wouldn't want to live with if I were in their shoes.  It's called principles.  It's not right to do things to people simply because they aren't you.

BTW, we impose a lot of things on millionaires right now, the first thing being higher tax brackets which they can and do escape by donating to legally recognized charities.  If we're unhappy with them having lower tax rates, we can always raise their tax rates even more and watch their donations to those legally recognized charities drop OR if we're upset that the charities they donated to aren't doing what we think charities should do, we can alter the definition of charity.


There are a lot of things that we impose on people that we wouldn't want done if we were in that position.  Case in point: these people outlawing sleeping in cars.  I'm pretty sure these residents wouldnt be so cavalier about banning sleeping in cars if the situations were switched.  Millionaires, for some reason though, seem to get a large amount of sympathy from average americans when raising tax rates. I don't think that the higher tax rates cost as much to the rich as these bans/arrests cost to the homeless person.

Point being: No one fancies themselves as poor so we screw them. Everyone fancies themselves on the road to extreme wealth so don't mess with the rich.

/i'm speaking in generalities, obviously
 
2014-04-16 03:29:29 PM  

bunner: special20: I know how they feel - my GF had made do her in the butt last night, and I had to wash my cock off in the sink. It's not my fault she didn't feel like walking to the bathroom to get a nice warm cloth afterward. Sheesh! I felt taken advantage of. At least I got to admire my abs in the mirror.

*tooth sparkle"

I almost appreciate the comic relief.  Almost because you're not really good with this.  Take care.  *click*  :  )


Uh huh, "almost" is how I got into the wrong hole in the first place last night.
 
2014-04-16 03:29:41 PM  
Tired of not being invited to the soup kitchens?
 
2014-04-16 03:31:10 PM  

Another Government Employee: UberDave: Diogenes: If you can afford a car you're not poor.

Only if it has a tape deck...with a Creedence tape.

They don't want to be stuck in Lodi again.


thats a giggle
 
2014-04-16 03:31:27 PM  

Adss2009: Everyone fancies themselves on the road to extreme wealth so don't mess with the rich.


I call this the Getaway Car Delusion.


1.  I am being bent and greased by utter, thieving pricks in nice suits.
2.  The seem to be allowed to pull this sh*t and even get well compensated for it, so, if I play along
3.  I might get a spot at the trough and thereby be let in the club and get a seat in the Getaway Car.  Ha ha.  No.
 
2014-04-16 03:34:11 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: meat0918: jshine: LeroyBourne: Those poor billionaires, how do they even get out of bed and face the world baffles me.

If you make billions in Silicon Valley, you probably don't sleep very often in the first place.

I wonder.  If each of the billionaires donated 1% of their wealth to helping address homelessness with some method other than relocating them, what would happen?

The billionaires would by 1% less rich.  Offering the homeless the same good advice and educational opportunities they already spent their entire lives turning away from, in most cases, isn't going to change many of them.  Remember the wonderful story about the homeless guy with the awesome radio voice?  When I become homeless you can bet it was my fault.  Despite my ability to do so, I have not saved adequately to protect myself from any kind of prolonged down-turn in my life.  Have you?  Most people don't.  If you don't have a $100,000 in the bank, but you've got a car payment because you felt you deserved a new car that your bank account said you didn't earn and you go out to eat every day like I do, STFU about rich people, blacks, whites, men, women, Republicans, Democrats, the tea party or gays being the source of your problems.  I don't have a hard time accepting that my own decisions are responsible for my relative lack of wealth and assets.  I don't know why more people can't accept the same.  We are all basically where we worked to be.  Yeah, there are a few hard luck cases just as there are some lucky winners, but 90% of people live in the circumstances they created.  (I got that number scientifically, out of my butt)


I don't have a car payment, I will never buy a new car, and I was a razor's edge away from living in a car with my family because I risked it all and moved out of Michigan and headed West without actually having a job lined up because I couldn't get a goddamn interview with any companies out here until I moved here.

We lived with my wife's parents until I landed a part time min wage job that I was making so little at I needed a piece of paper from my family saying they were helping supporting us in order to get into low income housing, but I was making too much to get added to the Section 8 waiting list.

I'm making well above the median income average for the area now, a little low for a software dev nationally but I am not complaining about what I get paid, because I don't really want the stress involved with a job like meyerkev has.

Plus I don't like the Bay Area.  Too many people, but it's a nice place to visit.  Coastal NorCal is nice too, but there are no jobs for me in the Fortuna/Eureka/Arcata area, and while the area is nice, the people are a little..... off.
 
2014-04-16 03:36:15 PM  
BigNumber12: LeroyBourne: One time my sister tried to give a hobo her left over Chinese food

Not even hobos are willing to take such a massive risk of contracting "social diseases."


I think he just insulted your sister. Or is your sister the disease-ridden whore he makes her out to be?
 
2014-04-16 03:36:35 PM  

pedrop357: Exactly what more should we be doing? Preferably, give some specifics.


Bump up taxes on the top bracket (I'm in favor of creating a super-high bracket, both for wages and cap gains, taxed at 45%) so that we can afford to spend more on food assistance (SNAP), UI, housing (I liked those links about building/retrofitting unused buildings - combine that with using renter-workers, or partnering with local businesses to run slates of interviews, etc, to give it some zest), cell phones and subsidized internet (to look for jobs - and I don't necessarily mean in every unit, though that'd be best obviously - and help keep them), and a reinstatement of the mental-health treatment rules Reagan did away with.

Also single-payer health insurance, to make sure everyone knows they really don't need to worry about INSURANCE, they need to worry about CARE.

pedrop357: We can do more, but there are limits to what we can do without essentially creating more "poor" to be taken care of and at least some goal should be set so we can use our money to the best effect.


Yes, if we taxed every rich person 100%, and every poor person 0%, we'd flip sides every year. In the real world however, few people (if any) slip down a bracket or two simply because of a tax bill.

// I'm also a big fan of clearing administrative overhead as much as possible, I'd bet there's lots of waste in that part of the programs
// but it's not about my ideas or Lee's; it's about welfare continuing to be a legitimate focus of government, even after the Great Society and giving fridges to 99.6% of homeless people, even though we haven't "solved" the problem yet
 
2014-04-16 03:39:04 PM  

2KanZam: Before anyone jumps my case...I was homeless. I slept in my car for about 4ish months.


For me, it was sleeping in a sugar beet field, in Idaho, in January.

I was never so happy as to find any job, as I was then.

meat0918: I wonder. If each of the billionaires donated 1% of their wealth to helping address homelessness with some method other than relocating them, what would happen?


Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.

TheIndependent: Look, I'm not wasting any more time/money/effort on "cousin Ryan"...


For me, it's a sister. To be fair, she has reasons, just ask her. The reasons haven't changed much over the last 30 years.
 
2014-04-16 03:40:12 PM  
utownmissions.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-16 03:40:51 PM  

Hector Remarkable: BigNumber12: LeroyBourne: One time my sister tried to give a hobo her left over Chinese food

Not even hobos are willing to take such a massive risk of contracting "social diseases."

I think he just insulted your sister. Or is your sister the disease-ridden whore he makes her out to be?


I could roll with left over chinese food is a euphemism for sexy times, but I'm not an avg guy.
/c'mon baby, give me some of your left over chinese food
 
2014-04-16 03:41:27 PM  

bunner: And that's because for the 19th and 20th centuries, we were endlessly instilled with the notion that if you write paychecks, you're an owner and if you cash a paycheck, you're property and it is the duty of property to offer the greatest return to the owner, and gratefully, even if it's oppressive, offers a worthless and static existence and is at their own expense.  Slavery just keeps jumping down the dirty clothes chute and emerging in a new clown suit.


I just got an email today asking for a justification for a system upgrade in terms of how much headcount it would reduce.

Exchanging one piece of property for another.
 
2014-04-16 03:42:11 PM  

Slam1263: Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.


I'm going to be honest, private charity sucks at meeting the demand for charity.

Amazingly though, government programs seem to do a better job meeting the need than private charity.  I wonder why that is?

Food stamps is a great example of this.
 
2014-04-16 03:42:24 PM  

Pangea: ikanreed: Pangea: Well I'm no farking Republican, and they certainly didn't ask my opinion.

Congratulations, you don't understand statistics and polling.  Do you have any other lack-of-insights to share?

And I can't blame people for not wanting your opinion.

Bullshiat.  There are pretty much no people I know who think the government should enact tighter controls over the salaries that companies can offer.Do you honestly think 90% of Democrats want that?

You might want it, but you're one of the most consistently bleeding-heart posters on this site.

Raising the minimum wage is an innocuous thing on the surface and only 80% of Democrats support it in this poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/public-sees-role-for- go vernment-in-reducing-wealth-inequality/2013/12/17/cf10d708-6785-11e3-8 b5b-a77187b716a3_graphic.html

Only a moron could see that number and assume MORE people support government controls to reduce wealth inequality.


Can I just say: derp.  Derpy derp.  You went "they didn't ask me" as if it mattered for numbers.  I wasn't pretending majorities are always right, I wasn't even saying that the polling data provided was accurate.  Just that your assertion that it mattered that anyone polled you was about as mindless and pointless as opinions can come.  You haven't changed my mind about that at all.
 
2014-04-16 03:44:40 PM  
bunner:

3.  I might get a spot at the trough and thereby be let in the club and get a seat in the Getaway Car.  Ha ha.  No.

That implies that I'm trying to get a seat in the "Getaway Car" or am concerned about the "trough".
 
gad
2014-04-16 03:44:44 PM  

Diogenes: If you can afford a car you're not poor.


Sometimes that's your last possession. And that was incredibly ignorant of you to say.
 
2014-04-16 03:45:42 PM  

Joe Blowme: [utownmissions.files.wordpress.com image 400x300]


If a homeless person.. has a funny sign.. He hasn't been homeless that long. A REAL homeless person is too hungry, to be funny.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-16 03:46:27 PM  

Adss2009: bunner:

3.  I might get a spot at the trough and thereby be let in the club and get a seat in the Getaway Car.  Ha ha.  No.

That implies that I'm trying to get a seat in the "Getaway Car" or am concerned about the "trough".


I implied nothing whatsoever upon you or your actions or reasons therefore, nor could I, as I am vastly unaware of them.
 
2014-04-16 03:52:13 PM  

bonobo73: The homeless deserve housing, food, and health care.

However, they smell, are annoying and are typically mentally instable, so not in Palo Alto, Menlo Park,or Los Altos, please, and especially not Atherton.   Maybe in East Palo Alto, Vallejo, or Oakland or hippy-dippy Santa Cruz.


Bakersfield
 
2014-04-16 03:52:45 PM  

sendtodave: Exchanging one piece of property for another.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-16 03:53:45 PM  

sendtodave: I just got an email today asking for a justification for a system upgrade in terms of how much headcount it would reduce.

Exchanging one piece of property for another.


"Dear Corporate Overlords:

If we continue running Win95 and don't upgrade to Win7, the risk to headcount is that everyone realizes how much cheap bastardry you engage in for no discernible purpose, and jumps ship.

Signed,
A Geek Who's Tired of Explaining to You That People Need Tech to do Their Jobs"

// had bosses who refused to upgrade hardware and software until an entire group threatened to quit
// because low-level stock laptops can't handle AutoCAD served over a network, dumbass!
 
2014-04-16 03:55:43 PM  

Pangea: I was laid off on more than one occasion and it farking sucked.


Me too -- twice in 3 years.  If you work in start-ups in Silicon Valley, that's just part of life.  You deal with it, and always recognize that the best job might be in another area.
 
2014-04-16 03:56:19 PM  

Fusilier: bonobo73: The homeless deserve housing, food, and health care.

However, they smell, are annoying and are typically mentally instable, so not in Palo Alto, Menlo Park,or Los Altos, please, and especially not Atherton.   Maybe in East Palo Alto, Vallejo, or Oakland or hippy-dippy Santa Cruz.

Bakersfield


That's just cruel...
 
2014-04-16 03:58:02 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Signed,A Geek Who's Tired of Explaining to You That People Need Tech to do Their Jobs"


"MAKE THE BLINKY THINGS GO ZOOM AND GIMMIE MOAR MUNNY NAO!!1!1!"
 
2014-04-16 04:02:17 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

So your brilliant solution to widespread homelessness caused by addiction is....NIMBY. Why did you even bother posting?


I don't think they proposed any solution. Merely stated part of the problem.

If we are going out on a limb to infer peoples positions on a solution where none was stated I would have to assume that your "solution" is to have homeless people live in dumpsters. That seems quite a bit more inhumane than his sentiment.
 
2014-04-16 04:03:03 PM  

caddisfly: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Of course very resident of Silicon Valley is a billionaire, and they hate the poor.

[wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net image 245x285]

Most people I know don't want someone living in a car in their neighborhood.

More accurately, most people don't want someone who lives in a car pooping in their garden and tossing their empties on the sidewalk.

Prior to Reagan the federal government housed, fed, and clothed the vast majority of folks who are unable to support themselves due to mental illness. Link These days we force them to live on the street or in prison, then we somehow complain that the cost of both is excessive for the taxpayer. My gut tells me that the cost of restoring taxpayer funded residential facilities would be a bargain by comparison. It might also greatly the improve the lives of folks living on our streets.

/have stepped in human poop twice now


A few years back I was in D.C. at the Corner of North Capital & H, right around the corner from Union Station. It was January, clear and cold, and right about sunset. Commuters were pouring out onto the streets headed home. A guy bundled against the cold (perhaps wearing his complete wardrobe), stopped right in the middle of the sidewalk, lowered his trousers and dropped a deuce.  People (including me) just gave him as wide a berth as they possibly could and kept on trucking.
 
2014-04-16 04:06:48 PM  

The first thing I looked at: UrukHaiGuyz: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

So your brilliant solution to widespread homelessness caused by addiction is....NIMBY. Why did you even bother posting?

I don't think they proposed any solution. Merely stated part of the problem.

If we are going out on a limb to infer peoples positions on a solution where none was stated I would have to assume that your "solution" is to have homeless people live in dumpsters. That seems quite a bit more inhumane than his sentiment.


I was mocking them. It's clear from the tone that the point of the post was casting moral judgement as a rationalization for the suffering of homeless addicts. Half the problem we have in dealing with problems like poverty is a Puritanical culture that deems empathy a flaw and glorifies sociopathic greed. The means aren't lacking nearly so much as the will.
 
2014-04-16 04:07:35 PM  

SphericalTime: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

Good thing people can't get addicted to those substances, or else what you said would sound heartless and cruel to people who find themselves caught up in a painful circle that many are unable to break free from.


Some people are addicted and make the choice to try and fight it.

Some people are addicted and make the conscious choice to live with it, knowing that it means they will sleep on the sidewalk. What do you do for people in that category? They don't want "help". They want drug/booze money.
 
2014-04-16 04:07:42 PM  

littlett's: EdNortonsTwin: A new thing in my area the past few weeks is the gas-station scam where someone asks for a couple bucks for gas "...to get home" .  First woman I gave a dollar - I watched her drive off w/o putting gas in her car.

Happened again a few days ago except it was a man who said he needed it to get home with his kids in the car.  He got 45 cents.  He also drove off w/o getting gas - I couldn't see kids through the tinted windows.

CSBooboo

Here the scam is that they were evicted from their apartment and need money for a hotel room.  It is the same story from different people that seem to rotate through the same parking lots.

Before that I got a lot of "My car broke down and I don't have any cash and I'm hungry."  It never failed that when I offered to buy them something to eat they would just ask me if they could have the money.


The latest one I saw was the girl needed money for laundry.
 
2014-04-16 04:07:48 PM  

pedrop357: Adss2009: You could substitute rebellion for socialism with no change. Americans refuse to impose anything on millionaires because they insist they will become one one day and don't want to have to live by those rules.

There are a lot of things I'm never going to be, but I won't be imposing rules on them I wouldn't want to live with if I were in their shoes.  It's called principles.  It's not right to do things to people simply because they aren't you.

BTW, we impose a lot of things on millionaires right now, the first thing being higher tax brackets which they can and do escape by donating to legally recognized charities.  If we're unhappy with them having lower tax rates, we can always raise their tax rates even more and watch their donations to those legally recognized charities drop OR if we're upset that the charities they donated to aren't doing what we think charities should do, we can alter the definition of charity.


People with ready cash are also amazingly mobile and inclined to understand what their options are. States like New Jersey, New York, and Maryland are bleeding millionaires.
 
2014-04-16 04:10:43 PM  

Dr Dreidel: sendtodave: I just got an email today asking for a justification for a system upgrade in terms of how much headcount it would reduce.

Exchanging one piece of property for another.

"Dear Corporate Overlords:

If we continue running Win95 and don't upgrade to Win7, the risk to headcount is that everyone realizes how much cheap bastardry you engage in for no discernible purpose, and jumps ship.

Signed,
A Geek Who's Tired of Explaining to You That People Need Tech to do Their Jobs"

// had bosses who refused to upgrade hardware and software until an entire group threatened to quit
// because low-level stock laptops can't handle AutoCAD served over a network, dumbass!


Other way.  We need the upgrade, they want to know how much staff it will reduce by getting it.

That is to say, for them, it's more worth it if it sheds jobs.
 
2014-04-16 04:10:57 PM  

Pangea: Dr Dreidel: // and if you really can't see an appreciable difference between the homelessness of the 1950s and the homelessness of today - or the compounding problems both then and now - there's no point in discussing it further

The other day my mom was telling me about growing up in the 1950s in Cleveland.

They used to see lots of fires out by the dump. That was were the homeless used to set up camp and live. I'm sure that experience wasn't limited to just one city in the cold northeast.


Are you sure those fires weren't the river?
 
2014-04-16 04:13:28 PM  

meat0918: Slam1263: Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.

I'm going to be honest, private charity sucks at meeting the demand for charity.

Amazingly though, government programs seem to do a better job meeting the need than private charity.  I wonder why that is?

Food stamps is a great example of this.


For every dollar handed out in Foodstamps, the government overhead eats $5. Soc Sec, $3 dollars of overhead to give $1.

Honestly, I don't mind paying taxes, as a business owner, I pay more in taxes, and fees, than I pay in wages for any 3 employees. I'd rather pay my employees more. I don't take a wage, and I am hoping things improve in the future.

My only complaint is the amount of waste, and that the average Farker can't be bothered to read.
 
2014-04-16 04:16:19 PM  

LeroyBourne: Hector Remarkable: BigNumber12: LeroyBourne: One time my sister tried to give a hobo her left over Chinese food

Not even hobos are willing to take such a massive risk of contracting "social diseases."

I think he just insulted your sister. Or is your sister the disease-ridden whore he makes her out to be?

I could roll with left over chinese food is a euphemism for sexy times, but I'm not an avg guy.
/c'mon baby, give me some of your left over chinese food



bangers, beans, and mash
 
2014-04-16 04:18:37 PM  

The first thing I looked at: SphericalTime: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

Good thing people can't get addicted to those substances, or else what you said would sound heartless and cruel to people who find themselves caught up in a painful circle that many are unable to break free from.

Some people are addicted and make the choice to try and fight it.

Some people are addicted and make the conscious choice to live with it, knowing that it means they will sleep on the sidewalk. What do you do for people in that category? They don't want "help". They want drug/booze money.


It's pretty clear your don't actually understand addiction.
 
2014-04-16 04:22:01 PM  

Slam1263: meat0918: Slam1263: Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.

I'm going to be honest, private charity sucks at meeting the demand for charity.

Amazingly though, government programs seem to do a better job meeting the need than private charity.  I wonder why that is?

Food stamps is a great example of this.

For every dollar handed out in Foodstamps, the government overhead eats $5. Soc Sec, $3 dollars of overhead to give $1.

Honestly, I don't mind paying taxes, as a business owner, I pay more in taxes, and fees, than I pay in wages for any 3 employees. I'd rather pay my employees more. I don't take a wage, and I am hoping things improve in the future.

My only complaint is the amount of waste, and that the average Farker can't be bothered to read.


Actually it's the opposite. The administration of food stamps is a fraction of the cost of money spent on food. And the economic activity created by food stamps is something like twice what are created by tax cuts.

Didn't want to let that slip by without saying the truth.
 
2014-04-16 04:26:26 PM  

sendtodave: Other way. We need the upgrade, they want to know how much staff it will reduce by getting it.

That is to say, for them, it's more worth it if it sheds jobs.


Oh, I got that, but it may help to explain to them that "doing nothing" is also a choice, and one that might cost more in headcount than a new purchase would save.

Like, if you bought a server that could handle top-flight payroll software, you could fire the 5 grabassers in HR (and keep Harriet for the annual sexual harassment seminar), but if you don't upgrade the dev team's boxen, they'll quit, and you lose far more in productivity than you'd save by headcount-reducing server magic.

I think of it as the same problem from the opposite side - matching The Tech to The Job. Sometimes that means buying tech and "selling" (firing) people, sometimes vice-versa.
 
2014-04-16 04:27:19 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: The first thing I looked at: UrukHaiGuyz: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

So your brilliant solution to widespread homelessness caused by addiction is....NIMBY. Why did you even bother posting?

I don't think they proposed any solution. Merely stated part of the problem.

If we are going out on a limb to infer peoples positions on a solution where none was stated I would have to assume that your "solution" is to have homeless people live in dumpsters. That seems quite a bit more inhumane than his sentiment.

I was mocking them. It's clear from the tone that the point of the post was casting moral judgement as a rationalization for the suffering of homeless addicts. Half the problem we have in dealing with problems like poverty is a Puritanical culture that deems empathy a flaw and glorifies sociopathic greed. The means aren't lacking nearly so much as the will.


And I was mocking you for reading what you wanted to instead of what was written.

I've had conversations with career drunks who chose the bottle over treatment, chose the bottle over their jobs and chose the bottle over having a home, all according to them. Should they be locked up and treated against their will? Everyone has problems, some much more severe than others but everyone still makes choices.

Oh and please, lets hear the plan to fix the homeless problem.
 
2014-04-16 04:27:30 PM  

SphericalTime: Slam1263: meat0918: Slam1263: Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.

I'm going to be honest, private charity sucks at meeting the demand for charity.

Amazingly though, government programs seem to do a better job meeting the need than private charity.  I wonder why that is?

Food stamps is a great example of this.

For every dollar handed out in Foodstamps, the government overhead eats $5. Soc Sec, $3 dollars of overhead to give $1.

Honestly, I don't mind paying taxes, as a business owner, I pay more in taxes, and fees, than I pay in wages for any 3 employees. I'd rather pay my employees more. I don't take a wage, and I am hoping things improve in the future.

My only complaint is the amount of waste, and that the average Farker can't be bothered to read.

Actually it's the opposite. The administration of food stamps is a fraction of the cost of money spent on food. And the economic activity created by food stamps is something like twice what are created by tax cuts.

Didn't want to let that slip by without saying the truth.


So...............if every American (including our illegal friends in the shadows) receives food stamps, the economic activity that will ensue as a result will make us all farking rich?
 
2014-04-16 04:27:32 PM  

probesport: meyerkev: Diogenes: If you can afford a car you're not poor.

BWAH HAH HAH.   $1.2 Million for a Frigging townhouse.  And they all sold for cash offers.

If you want to be middle-class, stay out of blue states.
If you want to be rich, move to a blue state and then get lucky.

/Hong Kong exodus FTFail.

May want to revisit that map.


1) Slight fixup.  By blue state, I mean NE and Left Coast.  We don't really have a good term for that and that term was bad.  "Really blue state"?

2) Average income in MS is ~$35K household.  Which admittedly sucks.  Flip side of that is that if I had to make $35K/year in any state, it'd probably be Mississippi or similar levels of suckage.  Because I can do way more on $35K in MS than in CA.

Move me up to an average Midwestern state (or better yet, reasonably well-trained professional married to other reasonably well-trained professional in Midwestern state), and yeah sure, I'm stuck on Midwestern wages, but I'm doing it in a Midwestern real estate market.

Meanwhile, average household income in SF is $68K.  Which after taxes becomes $48K and rent is $36K/year.  In exchange, I'm an evil 1%er if I get really, really lucky.

Sure, I'll never get rich in MS, but I can get middle-class pretty easy.

Which was sort of my point.
 
2014-04-16 04:28:54 PM  

SphericalTime: Slam1263: meat0918: Slam1263: Odd thing about handing out free money, you will never have enough to satisfy demand.

I'm going to be honest, private charity sucks at meeting the demand for charity.

Amazingly though, government programs seem to do a better job meeting the need than private charity.  I wonder why that is?

Food stamps is a great example of this.

For every dollar handed out in Foodstamps, the government overhead eats $5. Soc Sec, $3 dollars of overhead to give $1.

Honestly, I don't mind paying taxes, as a business owner, I pay more in taxes, and fees, than I pay in wages for any 3 employees. I'd rather pay my employees more. I don't take a wage, and I am hoping things improve in the future.

My only complaint is the amount of waste, and that the average Farker can't be bothered to read.

Actually it's the opposite. The administration of food stamps is a fraction of the cost of money spent on food. And the economic activity created by food stamps is something like twice what are created by tax cuts.

Didn't want to let that slip by without saying the truth.


Last I looked, for every $1 spent on food stamps, $1.67 was the ROI

www.motherjones.com
 
2014-04-16 04:30:05 PM  

SphericalTime: The first thing I looked at: SphericalTime: armor helix: There are a lot of homeless shelters with empty rooms every night.

The reason? You have to be sober to use them.

If getting high is more important than a roof over your head that's your choice. But I don't want you sleeping in my dumpster.

Good thing people can't get addicted to those substances, or else what you said would sound heartless and cruel to people who find themselves caught up in a painful circle that many are unable to break free from.

Some people are addicted and make the choice to try and fight it.

Some people are addicted and make the conscious choice to live with it, knowing that it means they will sleep on the sidewalk. What do you do for people in that category? They don't want "help". They want drug/booze money.

It's pretty clear your don't actually understand addiction.


Ok champ, if you say so.

If you understand it so well, what should be done?
 
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