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(Slate)   "Lots of small, private colleges are in danger of closing and we should celebrate this achievement," claims columnist who is clearly still nursing that Vassar rejection   (slate.com ) divider line 64
    More: Dumbass, private colleges, default risk, credit ratings, nanny  
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4802 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2014 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-16 12:18:00 PM  

rewind2846: incrdbil: Reducing the 'fue' to the fire that has been spurring the increase of college tuition by giving less money to students who are less likely to graduate, driving them to more affordable, realsitic options such as community colleges.

So your solution to the problem of higher tuition is to f*ck the students who are busting their ass to try and make something of themselves by getting a degree?

F*ck you sideways.


No, dumbass. My soolution is Dont give a ton of loans or grants to Dufus McStupid, who is flat broke, but only managed a 2.0 GPA and has medicore ACT/SAT scores. Give him enough to only go to a junior college. dont let him take 20K of loans...because he is not likely to graduate, and definitely needs to start off in the shallow waters of a community college before going to a 4 year.

If his cousin,  Ima Idiot, who only got a GED after going 0.75 GPA for 5 years of high school, and couldn't event spell ACT, much less take the test, applies  for aid,  they should get nothing, no matter what their 'need' is, until after they pay  their own way for the first year of college, and prove that they can make it by passing all of their classes.

Yes, these standards mean that fewer people would get help goign to school, and some may get less money; that is exactly what is needed.  (On the bright side, we could open up the standards to give more money to those who have need and prove they can handle college).

Yes, I hear the whine about 'but what about the poor kids who come from bad schools': my answer is those kids won't cut it, so don't waste a lot of  money on them, dont let them rack up huge loans, and dont artificially inflate college costs by increasing the dmand on seats at schools by giving  high amounts of aid to kids who wont make it.

Sorry, but by the time you've graduated high school, if you are a low performing idiot, you've probably sealed your fate, and throwing good money after bad isn't a viable solution, so its not unwarranted to make that person prove they can make the grade before openign up the spigot of financial aid.
 
2014-04-16 12:20:44 PM  

Semper IvXx: Small private college = overcharging kids who couldn't get into a real school for a mediocre education.

And that's when they're not poorly disguised attempts for more religious brainwashing. Good riddance.


As opposed to getting a socialist brainwashing at a state funded public school that is poorly disguised as a worthwhile school, right?
 
2014-04-16 12:38:51 PM  

Rapmaster2000: There's simply a sustainability problem here.  The cost of a college education is not keeping pace with the value of college education.  There has to be some contraction in what students are willing to pay.  Much like with home-buying, you can use the emotional strings of the American dream to sustain the bubble much longer than it should run (bubbles always run longer than the fundamentals say they should run), but economics will catch up with you.


And in both cases, loans were given to anyone who could fog a mirror.

Worse yet, State U. has built up infrastructure as if their growth will never come to an end, many with absolutely insane projections, because, you know, growth is ALWAYS linear.

Yet these institutions will never be allowed to fail, thus sucking up even more wealth in the form of bailouts, impoverishing us all even further.
 
2014-04-16 12:41:10 PM  
"Vassar Rejection"
Isn't that some kind of medical procedure?
 
2014-04-16 12:45:12 PM  
Having worked at both large and small colleges I can say that this is nothing new.  IIRC small schools close at a pretty good rate each year, something like 10-20.  Has been this way for years, unfortunately I speak from experience as I worked at a small school that declared bankruptcy the year I was there and closed.  Worked for 2 months without pay.  Did get paid eventually since the school did not have liquid cash but did own the land and buildings which covered their debt once they sold it.

I have also found that most school have no clue who to handle money.  If you want to teach bad business practices just look at any institute of higher education, from the really low tier schools to the elite schools.  They all piss away more money on stupid things, usually because the donors say to, they cannot be sustainable in the long run.

/Went to a small Catholic school for undergrad work.  They had a rough time a number of years ago but I think they are fine now by hitting up rich donors and getting a bit more focus as to what they had to offer.
//I was not one of the rich donors.
///Neither rich nor a donor.
 
2014-04-16 01:11:19 PM  
The farking institute man I should have known...
 
2014-04-16 01:31:38 PM  

Rapmaster2000: The cost of a college education is not keeping pace with the value of college education.

In the 80's, college costs were about $10,000 for a high-level institution, and starting salaries for engineers were about $20,000. Now, college costs are about $80,000-$100,000 for the same institution, and starting salaries for engineers with the same degree as before are about $50,000.

So, adjusting for the multiple in salary increase, college costs have increased about 4 to 5 times for the same education.

Why? Since the federal government took over the business of college loans, universities have upped their prices because they knew that students had a guaranteed source of tuition, supplied almost entirely by a single entity. Suddenly, professors' salaries and other college expenditures skyrocketed.

The solution? Bring back private funding of student loans, with open free-market competition.
 
2014-04-16 01:44:01 PM  

Loadmaster: Rapmaster2000: The cost of a college education is not keeping pace with the value of college education.
In the 80's, college costs were about $10,000 for a high-level institution, and starting salaries for engineers were about $20,000. Now, college costs are about $80,000-$100,000 for the same institution, and starting salaries for engineers with the same degree as before are about $50,000.

So, adjusting for the multiple in salary increase, college costs have increased about 4 to 5 times for the same education.

Why? Since the federal government took over the business of college loans, universities have upped their prices because they knew that students had a guaranteed source of tuition, supplied almost entirely by a single entity. Suddenly, professors' salaries and other college expenditures skyrocketed.

The solution? Bring back private funding of student loans, with open free-market competition.


But then we wouldn't have all of these people dependent on DC for their existence and then later as debt slaves.
 
2014-04-16 02:16:53 PM  

Silly_Sot: Rapmaster2000: There's simply a sustainability problem here.  The cost of a college education is not keeping pace with the value of college education.  There has to be some contraction in what students are willing to pay.  Much like with home-buying, you can use the emotional strings of the American dream to sustain the bubble much longer than it should run (bubbles always run longer than the fundamentals say they should run), but economics will catch up with you.

It's even wider than that. There has been a "PhD crisis" for years in the USA. What's the crisis? Many more people with PhDs are churned out (in all fields) than are able to get "PhD-level employment" with their shiny, new doctorates. However, no PhD generating institution is willing to step up and restrict their output.


My federal agency hires a lot of "engineers" who went to college in foreign countries and got "engineering" degrees.  I'm pretty sure, based on my experiences, that the majority of these colleges in other countries are just diploma mills.

None of the foreign countries I'm referring to are European.  You know the ones I'm talking about.
 
2014-04-16 02:31:26 PM  

Loadmaster: So, adjusting for the multiple in salary increase, college costs have increased about 4 to 5 times for the same education.


I can't speak for private schools but in the case of public schools that's largely the result of states deciding they don't want to pay for the universities that bear their names and have really slashed the funding per student in not only inflation adjusted terms, but in real dollar terms in many places. At my alma mater (UW), the state used to pay more than 70% of educational expenses, and now pays for less than 30%. All by itself, this is a near-tripling in what the students themselves have to pay. In inflation-adjusted terms, the cost to educate a student has remained nearly flat for 20 years.
 
2014-04-16 02:36:33 PM  

dj_bigbird: Loadmaster: Rapmaster2000: The cost of a college education is not keeping pace with the value of college education.
In the 80's, college costs were about $10,000 for a high-level institution, and starting salaries for engineers were about $20,000. Now, college costs are about $80,000-$100,000 for the same institution, and starting salaries for engineers with the same degree as before are about $50,000.

So, adjusting for the multiple in salary increase, college costs have increased about 4 to 5 times for the same education.

Why? Since the federal government took over the business of college loans, universities have upped their prices because they knew that students had a guaranteed source of tuition, supplied almost entirely by a single entity. Suddenly, professors' salaries and other college expenditures skyrocketed.

The solution? Bring back private funding of student loans, with open free-market competition.

But then we wouldn't have all of these people dependent on DC for their existence and then later as debt slaves.


And bring in better techniques to increase the value.  Universities as stuck in the industrial age. Creating standardized people for standardized jobs.  Standardized (read as: repetitive task) jobs are coming to an end. That includes a good number of the professionals: ie attorneys, engineers, and college professors.
 
2014-04-16 04:03:57 PM  

BigBooper: My wife teaches at a private two year school that is very expensive. I was shocked to find out that her two year program costs about $30k for a degree with a starting wage of about $12.00 an hour. And these people will be lucky to be making $15.00 an hour after five years experience. How they can convince people to spend that type of money for such a low paying career is beyond me.


"Do what you love."

"Do what you are passionate about."

It's what we tell kids to do, so I am not surprised. I don't disapprove either. But there has to be some level of realism injected into those conversations with kids. You can still tell them to do what they love. You just have to help them prepare contingency plans and a realistic path that will allow them to do what they love without having to sell meth or work at Burger Kong.
 
2014-04-16 09:08:55 PM  

incrdbil: Sorry, but by the time you've graduated high school, if you are a low performing idiot, you've probably sealed your fate, and throwing good money after bad isn't a viable solution, so its not unwarranted to make that person prove they can make the grade before openign up the spigot of financial aid.


Bullsh*t. I just finished two degrees two years ago, and I had quite a few of my classmates who (and one showed me their report cards online) absolutely farking SUCKED at high school, yet they walked with me in the honors' procession at graduation. Why is this? Because in high school they were MADE to go, while at university they WANTED to go.

There's no law making it illegal for people not to achieve a higher education... you go because you want to. And there's also the fact that you get to choose whet you want, from your major to what classes to take, options high school kids don't have, as well as a whole different vibe and atmosphere. No cliques (usually), no bullying, you're an adult and you get to make your own decisions.

Self-motivation is the biggest factor, not some sh*tty high school gpa, and if you're motivated enough to get off your ass for that 7 am class, you deserve to be able to go - period. As the Wall Street broker commercials fine print reads "past performance is not indicative of future outcomes".
Besides , with all the dumb sh*t that tax money gets spent on already, student financial aid still gets us a farkton more return on investment than just about any other expenditure. Too bad doofuses like you would want to deny kids who might still have a chance in life the opportunity. Education is the only way that those at the bottom will make it to the top.
 
2014-04-17 10:48:23 AM  

Pontious Pilates: PunGent: I'll toss in my usual point about bloated admin structures at some (not all) of these places.  I know of at least two where tuition's been outpacing inflation for years...and it's ALL going to hire Third Assistant Deans in Charge of Fundraising and Outreach...who can't even fundraise their own salaries.

Both college's natural response to the shortfall was to hire more fundraising admins...you can guess how well that turned out.

As a private university fundraiser who has raised almost 4x my salary this fiscal year, I'm getting a kick out of your reply.

But your point is fair, it's some, not all schools where this is a problem. If the fundraising shop is doing it's job and run by competent people, it's a revenue generator, just like any sales force.


Good for you.  Really...I've done fundraising, albeit in politics, not academics, and I understand it's not easy.  It's just that incompetence and useless layers of bureaucracy disgust me, in any field.  And then the incompetents take it out on the people who do the actual work, in whatever organization might be under discussion.

/the private sector is NOT immune to this, btw.
 
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