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(The Atlantic Cities)   This is what the Great Lakes looked like one week ago. And here's why it's a big deal   (theatlanticcities.com) divider line 40
    More: Interesting, Great Lakes, hydrology, low waters, Midwestern United States, Department of Environmental Conservation, water levels, Huron, commercial vessel  
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37046 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2014 at 5:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-16 06:41:47 AM  
6 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change


You know how young-Earth creationists and anti-vaxxers sound completely and utterly stupid to all other rational people?  Yeah...welcome to the list.

Do you guys try to sound like idiots, or does it just come naturally?
2014-04-16 12:49:51 AM  
5 votes:
"This is what the Great Lakes looked like one week ago."

way to just make up sh*t to coax a greenlight subby.

the photo isn't captioned at all, and there's no mention anywhere in the article that that photo is from 'one week ago'.

srsly, how does one go through life just completely absent of any reading comprehension?

you don't just fill in the blanks with arbitrary info.


February 19, 2014, when ice covered 80.3 percent of the lakes
2014-04-16 05:33:50 AM  
3 votes:

Friction8r: This does not correlate well with spasmodic assertions of global warming I mean climate change. Therefore this thread will not draw the FECKLESS crowd and is thus rendered irrelevant.


You wear your stupidity like a badge I see.

Climate change doesn't just mean warmer everywhere all the time. But don't let the science get in the way of your blind assertions.
2014-04-16 05:08:20 AM  
3 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald  " is played on the Classic Rock stations.


why on earth would you want to reduce that? they should have all day gordon lightfoot days.
2014-04-17 12:01:21 AM  
2 votes:
You people are blooming idiots.  Climate is not something measured year by year but over eons.  we are well within what has been considered normal on this planet.  Simple to see if you don't have a totalitarian impulse to control the lives of others.hot-topic.co.nz
2014-04-16 08:51:55 AM  
2 votes:
I'm not going back to living in a tee-pee because the Earth's climate can't sustain billions and billions of people. If the smog overwhelms the cities, call the engineers to develop atmospheric scrubbers. If the oceans rise and flood out the coastal cities, call in the naval architects to build boats (big boats). If the fresh water reservoirs dry up because of droughts, call in the nuclear scientists to build desalinization plants. If the Earth jukes, humans should jive.

That is not sufficiently alarmist to get someone to pay you money for carbon credits or funding so you can "research" for a couple more years.  I suggest you try again if you don't want to have to go get a real job.
2014-04-16 07:38:01 AM  
2 votes:

SevenizGud: Just take a look at this graph of the last 200 months from the, you know, scientific data gathering units worldwide


img.fark.net
2014-04-16 07:33:58 AM  
2 votes:

ghostfacekillahrabbit: There was an anti-climate change letter published in the Milwaukee paper today, on the shore of Lake Michigan that claimed that melting ice can't raise water levels.


The ice on the lakes will result in higher water levels, but not because of melts... it's because the ice prevented a lot of evaporation this past winter. The winter's record accumulation of snow certainly helps in a direct manner, but mother nature is the greatest thief of water, and it is cheated when there is ice cover.

Overzealous people who blindly parrot the climate change political line, as well as those who parrot the deniers don't seem to understand the dynamics involved.

Likewise... sea ice loss means more sea water is evaporated and recycled into rain (which is nature's desalination machine).

It's amazing how resilient our biosphere really is.
2014-04-16 06:37:39 AM  
2 votes:

wesmon: aNihilV10L8tr: Asian carp is a more dangerous threat to the great lakes than the water staying cold a few weeks longer than average .

That's racist.

http://frenchtribune.com/teneur/1422126-lawmakers-considering-name-c ha nge-asian-carp-minnesota

The new, agreed upon name is invasive carp.


Lulz! Holy fark, that's hilarious! Whole new level of bullshiat.

/I suggest 'ching chong carp'
2014-04-16 05:50:04 AM  
2 votes:

Major Ethanolic: So global warming is good now?


I am sure some Al Gore worshiper will claim Global Warming Derp caused Great Lakes to freeze over
2014-04-16 05:40:25 AM  
2 votes:
Yeah, but this is just one part of the world. It doesn't indicate that temperatures are not going up worldwide on average. Just take a look at this graph of the last 200 months from the, you know, scientific data gathering units worldwide:

www.woodfortrees.org

Errrrrmm, what I meant to say was that this ice doesn't mean that we're seeing historic loss of ice worldwide. I mean, if you look at global sea ice anomaly, for example, then you see this:

arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu

Uhm, what I was trying to say is, errrmmm, durrrrrp herrrrrrrppppp the sky is falling. The sky is falling.
2014-04-16 04:30:45 AM  
2 votes:

i1.kym-cdn.com

2014-04-15 09:58:11 PM  
2 votes:
Shipments of iron ore from the northern reaches of Minnesota were so low that the U.S. Steel plant in Gary, Indiana had to scale back production significantly in early April.


I read somewhere that the steel industry is something like 3% of the U.S. GDP and pretty much all the plants located on the Great Lakes are out of ore due to the early freeze-up and late start to the shipping season, so this is potentially kind of a big deal for the U.S. economy. Latest news is the ice is finally breaking up on Lake Superior, the Port of Duluth's open, freighters are finally starting to move through the Soo Locks and won't be needing icebreaker escorts for much longer.


Shippers may be hurting now, but higher lake levels will allow them to load more cargo per boat later this year, according to the Chicago Tribune. These higher water lines also mean that those who manage the Great Lakes' harbors won't have to invest huge sums of money in dredging out the bottom. Ships will carry more, at less of a cost, once the ice melts.


True about the freighters being able to carry more immediately, but the money for lots of harbor dredging projects has already been budgeted for this year.
2014-04-15 09:22:50 PM  
2 votes:
because it's still frozen, and holding up commerce? have a nice steaming cup of shut the fark up. thanks
2014-04-17 08:38:47 AM  
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: nickerj1: What? Are you arguing that the number of cell towers, the total square mileage of pavement, and the total amount of air conditioners (really the total joules expelled as heat from A/Cs) since 1970 has been static?

WTF?!? The standard denier argument is not talking about the total number of air conditioners in homes nor is it talking about total area of asphalt.

The long debunked and quite out-of-date (i.e. most deniers have abandoned it) talking point is about mechanical equipment and black asphalt directly near the land based weather stations. They claim that these are direct sources of heat near the temperature measurement (completely ignoring or being ignorant of the fact that this would not affect the direction or magnitude of the long term trends being monitored).

Your response is a complete non-sequitur.


The way that is worded, it seems like you are dismissing what he is saying simply because it doesn't fit into the mold of some "standard denier argument."
2014-04-16 08:49:14 PM  
1 votes:

some_beer_drinker: because it's still frozen, and holding up commerce? have a nice steaming cup of shut the fark up. thanks


Also because fish and ducks are dying.  Hope you poured enough shut the fark up for yourself.
2014-04-16 01:04:25 PM  
1 votes:
brantgoose [TotalFark]

...I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect...
Yet every time there's a record high, we have bad-meteorologists posting pictures of the Earth on fire and fark pundits claiming those single events prove their religion is correct.
2014-04-16 01:00:22 PM  
1 votes:
karmachameleon
2014-04-16 06:41:47 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change

You know how young-Earth creationists and anti-vaxxers sound completely and utterly stupid to all other rational people? Yeah...welcome to the list.

Ad hominem. For all fark occasions when you can't address the facts.
2014-04-16 11:52:45 AM  
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: Tricky Chicken: Steve Jobs and Bill gates also dropped out of college (a similarly irrelevant fact). Lack of a completed degree is no rational criterion for dismissing an argument. It is also a logical fallacy.

Feepit: Appeal to authority applies to the statement I quoted, where you were talking about letters after a name and having a career in a given field. Letters after a name can be obtained from a diploma mill and a career be as loosely defined as posting tripe on a topic to a blog. However, it is nice to see that you further qualified your criteria for authority such that it better avoids the fallacy.

It is not just his lack of credentials on the subject. I already mentioned his proven history of distorting and/or intentionally misrepresenting data. He has demonstrated an inability to understand the science or he is intentionally distorting the science for political reasons. Either way, his history has proven beyond a doubt that he is not someone who's opinions on this subject are worth even considering.Ad hominim attack not addressing argument If an insane person says the earth is round, his insanity has no standing in regard to his argument.

The fact is that credentials do matter when considering opinions on a scientific field. There is a minimum level of education and experience needed to be able to form an opinion worthy of consideration.Appeal to authority. The opinions of Joe Sixpack do not meet this minimum.

Additionally, since his opinions are in direct contradiction to the working, publishing, highly educated in this field scientists appeal to authority, his credentials are very relevant to how much credit I give anything he says on the subject.

In the end, he is a proven liar.ad hominem again Forgive me if I no longer give any credence to anything he says on the subject.


Some fallacies highlighted for you.
2014-04-16 11:15:39 AM  
1 votes:

nickerj1: Herper Derper Do

You mean the temperature monitoring station that has had 3 A/C exhaust vents, an asphalt parking lot, and a cell tower installed directly adjacent to it since 1973 has increased in temperature by 1 degree ?!!?!?!

90%+ of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <30 meters away.
70% of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <10 meters away.

Whether you care about artificial heat sources may affect how you view global warming. If you pave the entire earth in black asphalt, the temperature of the earth will increase. If you constantly have wireless transmissions every which way, the temp will increase. If you continue to have every building on earth set to 70 degree A/C, the temperature will increase.

One thing we could do to stop global warming, or rather user temperature perception, is to ban air conditioners and use white asphalt.


You've just proven all the scientists wrong. Please go wait by your mailbox ... your Nobel prize should arrive any day now. They are just waiting for you to submit your evidence that shows how the asphalt and A/C units were able to affect all the satellite readings.
2014-04-16 11:04:13 AM  
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: SVenus: Farking Canuck: Yes. Let's get our science from a former weatherman who couldn't even finish an undergraduate degree. He's a better source for science than all those PhD's working and publishing in the field!

Please point us to a page where a PhD has posted current NOAA data on the Great Lakes-- unless they're too busy working and publishing in the field.

Do you think this engineering drop-out collected or analyzed any of that data? Who do you think did all that work?

I will give him credit for pulling all of them together but he has been proven to intentionally distort the work of real scientists many times in the past. If I was to use any of the data he presents I would go to the actual sources, i.e. the aforementioned real scientists, and not take the chance that he has altered or otherwise misrepresented the data.

It is the only way to know you are not being manipulated by politically motivated, unqualified bloggers.


Steve Jobs and Bill gates also dropped out of college (a similarly irrelevant fact). Lack of a completed degree is no rational criterion for dismissing an argument.  It is also a logical fallacy.
2014-04-16 10:47:52 AM  
1 votes:

Frozboz: SevenizGud: Just take a look at this graph of the last 200 months from the, you know, scientific data gathering units worldwide

[img.fark.net image 500x341]


Herper Derper Do

You mean the temperature monitoring station that has had 3 A/C exhaust vents, an asphalt parking lot, and a cell tower installed directly adjacent to it since 1973 has increased in temperature by 1 degree ?!!?!?!

90%+ of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <30 meters away.
70% of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <10 meters away.

Whether you care about artificial heat sources may affect how you view global warming.  If you pave the entire earth in black asphalt, the temperature of the earth will increase.  If you constantly have wireless transmissions every which way, the temp will increase.  If you continue to have every building on earth set to 70 degree A/C, the temperature will increase.

One thing we could do to stop global warming, or rather user temperature perception, is to ban air conditioners and use white asphalt.
2014-04-16 10:42:47 AM  
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: Yes. Let's get our science from a former weatherman who couldn't even finish an undergraduate degree. He's a better source for science than all those PhD's working and publishing in the field!


Appeal to authority. Having letters after your name is not what determines whether or not you're a good source of information.

Besides, even if he did have those letters, you'd just say he is a known fraud; right?

We should stick to attacking the arguments, not the person.

In this case, it doesn't appear there is an argument. Just a data dump of graphs taken from NOAA. However, this particular graph referenced suggests to me that the media coverage for Great Lake ice this year is overblown. Evidently this happens ever year, some years to a far greater extent.
2014-04-16 10:11:37 AM  
1 votes:
I find it interesting the way these threads often seem to go. The anti-science crowd rush in, post their derp, rant about Al Gore while insisting that their motivations are not political, etc. SevenizGud continues to show his dishonesty by posting his cherry picked graph from the out-of-date HADCRUT 3 dataset (version 4 has been out for over 2 years now).

Then the pro-science people show up and begin the debunking process using data with actual labels on the graphs and proper citations of sources. The bulk of the anti-science crowd fades leaving only the truly hardcore deniers.

In the old days, the thread would close out with walls of green lies but, thankfully, that seems to have faded away. Guess he's not getting a paycheck anymore.
2014-04-16 09:58:52 AM  
1 votes:
Dear deniers:  Cold is due to warming.  If you dont believe this do a simple experiment.  Turn your oven on (warming).  Put a frozen dinner in (normal cold).  Wait an hour and take it out.  You will see clearly that the frozen dinner is now even colder (warming causes cold).  Science is repeatable.
2014-04-16 09:49:19 AM  
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: some_beer_drinker: Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald  " is played on the Classic Rock stations.

why on earth would you want to reduce that? they should have all day gordon lightfoot days.

Maybe not all day.  At least until sundown.


I vote Edmund Fitzgerald all day.

3.bp.blogspot.com

/hot
2014-04-16 09:36:38 AM  
1 votes:
I know it's Fark, but could you all just shut the fark up for one thread and be interested in nature?
2014-04-16 09:11:40 AM  
1 votes:
OMG! What can we do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


/always thought it was "The Rectum of Edmund Fitzgerald"
2014-04-16 09:04:00 AM  
1 votes:
MJMaloney187: I'm not going back to living in a tee-pee because the Earth's climate can't sustain billions and billions of people. If the smog overwhelms the cities, call the engineers to develop atmospheric scrubbers. If the oceans rise and flood out the coastal cities, call in the naval architects to build boats (big boats). If the fresh water reservoirs dry up because of droughts, call in the nuclear scientists to build desalinization plants. If the Earth jukes, humans should jive.

Humans as a whole will undoubtedly survive. But there will be turmoil as populations are forced to move around due to changing levels of precipitation and such, especially in under-developed nations. And huge areas in the northern hemisphere could become less habitable, affecting food production and a changing population. We've already seen what happens when the jet stream is disrupted and Arctic air lingers over the United States. It will be much, much worse for Great Britain and Europe if the Gulf Stream is disrupted.

/as an aside those a-holes crudding up the air in China may have something to do with the recent winter weather. The air particles there affect precipitation in the Pacific which in turn affects the northern hemisphere as it works its way eastward.
2014-04-16 08:48:17 AM  
1 votes:
Claiming this is due to climate change, with zero proof or evidence when it can very easily simply be a natural effect of nature, is doing a disservice to environmental efforts.  Could it be related to climate change, sure.  Is it?  No one knows.
2014-04-16 08:46:38 AM  
1 votes:

brantgoose: The thing about global warming, the thing that really matters is, the key thing to remember, is that it's GLOBAL!

This is local news, Bubba. Go tell it to Joe Biden and see if he thinks it's a BFD.

 I am glad to see that the Great Lakes water levels are being boosted back towards normal. Decades of decline have severely harmed wildlife, cottagers and shipping. If we can get one of these hard winters every once in a while from the polar vortex, it may build some resiliency into the system.

I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect. It might wash it out temporarily but when our population jumped from one billion to over seven billion that one time, it changed the world and our relation to it.

For one thing, many ecologists believe that a human population of one billion is sustainable in the long run, while seven billion living like Americans or Canadians is not sustainable and uses more resources than the Earth can produce. We are eating up the capital of Life on Earth along with the interest and getting fatter and stupider by the mouthful.


I'm not going back to living in a tee-pee because the Earth's climate can't sustain billions and billions of people. If the smog overwhelms the cities, call the engineers to develop atmospheric scrubbers. If the oceans rise and flood out the coastal cities, call in the naval architects to build boats (big boats). If the fresh water reservoirs dry up because of droughts, call in the nuclear scientists to build desalinization plants. If the Earth jukes, humans should jive.
2014-04-16 08:33:32 AM  
1 votes:

brantgoose: The thing about global warming, the thing that really matters is, the key thing to remember, is that it's GLOBAL!

This is local news, Bubba. Go tell it to Joe Biden and see if he thinks it's a BFD.

 I am glad to see that the Great Lakes water levels are being boosted back towards normal. Decades of decline have severely harmed wildlife, cottagers and shipping. If we can get one of these hard winters every once in a while from the polar vortex, it may build some resiliency into the system.

I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect. It might wash it out temporarily but when our population jumped from one billion to over seven billion that one time, it changed the world and our relation to it.

For one thing, many ecologists believe that a human population of one billion is sustainable in the long run, while seven billion living like Americans or Canadians is not sustainable and uses more resources than the Earth can produce. We are eating up the capital of Life on Earth along with the interest and getting fatter and stupider by the mouthful.


And yet, during reports of the heat wave and drought in Australia four months ago, you were asking if it's okay to start killing deniers for the people they're starving to death yet.

/apparently weather is equivalent to climate when it's unusually hot
//but please, tell us again how we could save the world by executing the Hunts, Coors, and Kochs
2014-04-16 08:07:19 AM  
1 votes:
The thing about global warming, the thing that really matters is, the key thing to remember, is that it's GLOBAL!

This is local news, Bubba. Go tell it to Joe Biden and see if he thinks it's a BFD.

 I am glad to see that the Great Lakes water levels are being boosted back towards normal. Decades of decline have severely harmed wildlife, cottagers and shipping. If we can get one of these hard winters every once in a while from the polar vortex, it may build some resiliency into the system.

I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect. It might wash it out temporarily but when our population jumped from one billion to over seven billion that one time, it changed the world and our relation to it.

For one thing, many ecologists believe that a human population of one billion is sustainable in the long run, while seven billion living like Americans or Canadians is not sustainable and uses more resources than the Earth can produce. We are eating up the capital of Life on Earth along with the interest and getting fatter and stupider by the mouthful.
2014-04-16 08:03:50 AM  
1 votes:

some_beer_drinker: because it's still frozen, and holding up commerce? have a nice steaming cup of shut the fark up. thanks


I can't. I live in Wisconsin and get my shut the fark up by the St. Lawrence seaway.
2014-04-16 06:13:58 AM  
1 votes:

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: ghostfacekillahrabbit: There was an anti-climate change letter published in the Milwaukee paper today, on the shore of Lake Michigan that claimed that melting ice can't raise water levels.

I assume Wisconsin is working on a law to make rising water levels illegal.


Well if you know anything about south eastern counties that rely on Milwaukee to pump them water from the lake (the whole continental divide thing) you'd think that was the case.

Also, the whole issue of climate change isn't refuted by a long ice blanketed winter, the fact that we're having triple digit summers and then six month long winters - extremes with very short transitional falls and springs, should be more alarming than it just getting too warm.
2014-04-16 06:03:42 AM  
1 votes:
There's thick, then there's Indiana thick.  When are they gonna tear down that ship?  I was there yesterday, buying test equipment offa Craig's.  They have this lame-ass promotion something like 'Indy works' and 'Illinoyed' or something.  I've seen the werks.  Judging from their sense of architecture, I wonder if these people think their is any aspect to existence aside from bulk commodity production?  It's like they have a group neurosis:  Nobody's gonna like us for who we are, better sell 'em (mineral) coke.

They are so incredibly butch!  Here they live by a place that is and has been cleaning up by attracting international corporatism mostly by featuring some aesthetic relief from the Midwest, and they act like out China-ing China is the way to go for them. . .go figure!  They will, however, flip ya firecrackers.  Don't fall for the sale bin of fuses, however, they'll take your name.
2014-04-16 06:02:38 AM  
1 votes:
Asian carp is a more dangerous threat to the great lakes than the water staying cold a few weeks longer than average .
2014-04-16 06:01:11 AM  
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: wesmon: Friction8r: This does not correlate well with spasmodic assertions of global warming I mean climate change. Therefore this thread will not draw the FECKLESS crowd and is thus rendered irrelevant.

You wear your stupidity like a badge I see.

Climate change doesn't just mean warmer everywhere all the time. But don't let the science get in the way of your blind assertions.

Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change


With a reasoned and intelligent argument like that you could only have come from Orlando.
2014-04-16 05:43:30 AM  
1 votes:
The Great Lakes need more electrolytes.

1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-04-16 05:11:28 AM  
1 votes:

phaseolus: Shipments of iron ore from the northern reaches of Minnesota were so low that the U.S. Steel plant in Gary, Indiana had to scale back production significantly in early April.


America still has a steel industry? And that there's actually still a steel plant in Gary, Indiana? That's bigger news to me than water being frozen.
 
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