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(The Atlantic Cities)   This is what the Great Lakes looked like one week ago. And here's why it's a big deal   (theatlanticcities.com) divider line 178
    More: Interesting, Great Lakes, hydrology, low waters, Midwestern United States, Department of Environmental Conservation, water levels, Huron, commercial vessel  
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37029 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2014 at 5:06 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-16 10:35:03 AM  

Tatterdemalian: GORDON: I'm not going back to living in a tee-pee because the Earth's climate can't sustain billions and billions of people. If the smog overwhelms the cities, call the engineers to develop atmospheric scrubbers. If the oceans rise and flood out the coastal cities, call in the naval architects to build boats (big boats). If the fresh water reservoirs dry up because of droughts, call in the nuclear scientists to build desalinization plants. If the Earth jukes, humans should jive.

That is not sufficiently alarmist to get someone to pay you money for carbon credits or funding so you can "research" for a couple more years.  I suggest you try again if you don't want to have to go get a real job.

What's sad is that there are still lots of twenty-somethings in the US that would love to have a "real job." They can't get one, though, because employers aren't willing to pay minimum wage for the NEET jobs they could get a start in, mostly because the cost would run them out of business. Instead they have to hire illegal immigrants to do these jobs while staying in business, and hope none of the illegals are willing to risk deportation to get the employer in trouble for the sub-minimum wages being paid.

/eventually they get shut down and the employers arrested, because someone in the IRS notices something weird about the wages and employee counts
//the illegals go home to be relatively wealthy, and the rest of the US gets another lesson in what happens when you try to leave the plantation
///only the big businesses like Wal-Mart and FoxConn can stay in business, mostly by being able to move all their NEET jobs overseas


What in the Holy Hell are you talking about? What do illegal immigration and a pro-global warming stance have to do with each other?
 
2014-04-16 10:38:51 AM  

wesmon: aNihilV10L8tr: Asian carp is a more dangerous threat to the great lakes than the water staying cold a few weeks longer than average .

That's racist.

http://frenchtribune.com/teneur/1422126-lawmakers-considering-name-c ha nge-asian-carp-minnesota

The new, agreed upon name is invasive carp.


As a white man, I feel the name White Fish should be changed as to not make fun of my whiteness.
What a bunch of crap!
 
2014-04-16 10:39:44 AM  

calbert: "This is what the Great Lakes looked like one week ago."

way to just make up sh*t to coax a greenlight subby.

the photo isn't captioned at all, and there's no mention anywhere in the article that that photo is from 'one week ago'.

srsly, how does one go through life just completely absent of any reading comprehension?

you don't just fill in the blanks with arbitrary info.


February 19, 2014, when ice covered 80.3 percent of the lakes


that's about what I came here to say, was in st. Joe last weekend and there was absolutely no ice
 
2014-04-16 10:42:47 AM  

Farking Canuck: Yes. Let's get our science from a former weatherman who couldn't even finish an undergraduate degree. He's a better source for science than all those PhD's working and publishing in the field!


Appeal to authority. Having letters after your name is not what determines whether or not you're a good source of information.

Besides, even if he did have those letters, you'd just say he is a known fraud; right?

We should stick to attacking the arguments, not the person.

In this case, it doesn't appear there is an argument. Just a data dump of graphs taken from NOAA. However, this particular graph referenced suggests to me that the media coverage for Great Lake ice this year is overblown. Evidently this happens ever year, some years to a far greater extent.
 
2014-04-16 10:43:35 AM  
What really burns me about the deniers is the evidence is so overwhelming.   Every single day since Edison invented gasoline 78 years ago:  somewhere in the word it was warmer than it was the day before.  You see if you look globally every day somewhere it was colder yesterday.  The science is painfully clear on this.
 
2014-04-16 10:47:52 AM  

Frozboz: SevenizGud: Just take a look at this graph of the last 200 months from the, you know, scientific data gathering units worldwide

[img.fark.net image 500x341]


Herper Derper Do

You mean the temperature monitoring station that has had 3 A/C exhaust vents, an asphalt parking lot, and a cell tower installed directly adjacent to it since 1973 has increased in temperature by 1 degree ?!!?!?!

90%+ of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <30 meters away.
70% of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <10 meters away.

Whether you care about artificial heat sources may affect how you view global warming.  If you pave the entire earth in black asphalt, the temperature of the earth will increase.  If you constantly have wireless transmissions every which way, the temp will increase.  If you continue to have every building on earth set to 70 degree A/C, the temperature will increase.

One thing we could do to stop global warming, or rather user temperature perception, is to ban air conditioners and use white asphalt.
 
2014-04-16 10:48:58 AM  

bigsteve3OOO: Edison invented gasoline 78 years ago


lol
 
2014-04-16 10:49:51 AM  

brantgoose: I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.



According to NOAA, the average temperature of the lower 48 states for the winter of 2013-14, was a mere 0.1 degree C under the hundred year average.

"...blip in the regional..." is entirely accurate.
 
2014-04-16 10:52:42 AM  

calbert: "This is what the Great Lakes looked like one week ago."

way to just make up sh*t to coax a greenlight subby.

the photo isn't captioned at all, and there's no mention anywhere in the article that that photo is from 'one week ago'.

srsly, how does one go through life just completely absent of any reading comprehension?

you don't just fill in the blanks with arbitrary info.


February 19, 2014, when ice covered 80.3 percent of the lakes


There's a link to the onion on the main page, are you starting to understand what fark is now?

i141.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-16 10:58:20 AM  
 
2014-04-16 11:03:18 AM  

Feepit: Appeal to authority. Having letters after your name is not what determines whether or not you're a good source of information.


The "Appeal to Authority" fallacy does not apply when the person or persons are the actual authority. It is only a logical fallacy when their position as an authority has not been established.

I take many measures to determine what authorities I will consider as likely valid. In a scientific field they include:

- must be educated in the field or have significant working experience in the field
- must be actively working in the field
- must be actively publishing in the major peer-reviewed journals for the field in question

Experience as a weatherman does not cut it in the field of climate science. Dropping out from a mechanical engineering program does not cut it in the field of climate science.

There is some wriggle room there but not a lot. Everyone has an opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion but most people's opinions are worth jack shiat when it comes to science. They do not and should not get equal consideration ... I do not care what their politics has to say about science.
 
2014-04-16 11:04:13 AM  

Farking Canuck: SVenus: Farking Canuck: Yes. Let's get our science from a former weatherman who couldn't even finish an undergraduate degree. He's a better source for science than all those PhD's working and publishing in the field!

Please point us to a page where a PhD has posted current NOAA data on the Great Lakes-- unless they're too busy working and publishing in the field.

Do you think this engineering drop-out collected or analyzed any of that data? Who do you think did all that work?

I will give him credit for pulling all of them together but he has been proven to intentionally distort the work of real scientists many times in the past. If I was to use any of the data he presents I would go to the actual sources, i.e. the aforementioned real scientists, and not take the chance that he has altered or otherwise misrepresented the data.

It is the only way to know you are not being manipulated by politically motivated, unqualified bloggers.


Steve Jobs and Bill gates also dropped out of college (a similarly irrelevant fact). Lack of a completed degree is no rational criterion for dismissing an argument.  It is also a logical fallacy.
 
2014-04-16 11:05:08 AM  

Itstoearly: ghostfacekillahrabbit: There was an anti-climate change letter published in the Milwaukee paper today, on the shore of Lake Michigan that claimed that melting ice can't raise water levels.

Well, that depends.  If the ice is all floating in water, then it melting will not raise water levels (since ice is less dense than water, and the the ice will displace an amount of water equal to its mass).

If the ice that is melting is sitting on land, then yes, it will raise water levels.


Most of Michigan's snow is of the lake effect variety, which derived from moisture stolen from the lake. That snow is nearly a zero-sum game.
 
2014-04-16 11:08:44 AM  

I.P.Daily: wesmon: aNihilV10L8tr: Asian carp is a more dangerous threat to the great lakes than the water staying cold a few weeks longer than average .

That's racist.

http://frenchtribune.com/teneur/1422126-lawmakers-considering-name-c ha nge-asian-carp-minnesota

The new, agreed upon name is invasive carp.

As a white man, I feel the name White Fish should be changed as to not make fun of my whiteness.
What a bunch of crap

carp!

FTFY
 
2014-04-16 11:13:23 AM  

Farking Canuck: The "Appeal to Authority" fallacy does not apply when the person or persons are the actual authority. It is only a logical fallacy when their position as an authority has not been established.

I take many measures to determine what authorities I will consider as likely valid. In a scientific field they include:

- must be educated in the field or have significant working experience in the field
- must be actively working in the field
- must be actively publishing in the major peer-reviewed journals for the field in question

Experience as a weatherman does not cut it in the field of climate science. Dropping out from a mechanical engineering program does not cut it in the field of climate science.

There is some wriggle room there but not a lot. Everyone has an opinion, everyone is entitled to their opinion but most people's opinions are worth jack shiat when it comes to science. They do not and should not get equal consideration ... I do not care what their politics has to say about science.


Appeal to authority applies to the statement I quoted, where you were talking about letters after a name and having a career in a given field. Letters after a name can be obtained from a diploma mill and a career be as loosely defined as posting tripe on a topic to a blog. However, it is nice to see that you further qualified your criteria for authority such that it better avoids the fallacy.
 
2014-04-16 11:15:39 AM  

nickerj1: Herper Derper Do

You mean the temperature monitoring station that has had 3 A/C exhaust vents, an asphalt parking lot, and a cell tower installed directly adjacent to it since 1973 has increased in temperature by 1 degree ?!!?!?!

90%+ of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <30 meters away.
70% of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <10 meters away.

Whether you care about artificial heat sources may affect how you view global warming. If you pave the entire earth in black asphalt, the temperature of the earth will increase. If you constantly have wireless transmissions every which way, the temp will increase. If you continue to have every building on earth set to 70 degree A/C, the temperature will increase.

One thing we could do to stop global warming, or rather user temperature perception, is to ban air conditioners and use white asphalt.


You've just proven all the scientists wrong. Please go wait by your mailbox ... your Nobel prize should arrive any day now. They are just waiting for you to submit your evidence that shows how the asphalt and A/C units were able to affect all the satellite readings.
 
2014-04-16 11:20:21 AM  

Farking Canuck: nickerj1: Herper Derper Do

You mean the temperature monitoring station that has had 3 A/C exhaust vents, an asphalt parking lot, and a cell tower installed directly adjacent to it since 1973 has increased in temperature by 1 degree ?!!?!?!

90%+ of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <30 meters away.
70% of all temp monitoring surface stations have an artificial heat source <10 meters away.

Whether you care about artificial heat sources may affect how you view global warming. If you pave the entire earth in black asphalt, the temperature of the earth will increase. If you constantly have wireless transmissions every which way, the temp will increase. If you continue to have every building on earth set to 70 degree A/C, the temperature will increase.

One thing we could do to stop global warming, or rather user temperature perception, is to ban air conditioners and use white asphalt.

You've just proven all the scientists wrong. Please go wait by your mailbox ... your Nobel prize should arrive any day now. They are just waiting for you to submit your evidence that shows how the asphalt and A/C units were able to affect all the satellite readings.


See that's the kind of crap I am talking about.  Deniers always use satellites in geosynchronous orbits.  You cant measure global events with a geo thermometer.  Real scientists use global positioning satellites to measure global temperature. People are so dumb.
 
2014-04-16 11:24:27 AM  

bigsteve3OOO: A simple experiment will demonstrate why Al "praise be upon him" Gore is right.  Take a glass of soda and ice. fill it right to the rim. (ice in the lake).  Set it in the hot summer sun.(warming).  Watch it overflow onto the table. (metaphor for humanity if we dot pay carbon tax.  Science is repeatable.


Notsureiftrolling.  If not, you might want to reword that.

(hint:  water expands when it freezes)
 
2014-04-16 11:24:55 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: I believe, now gimme the grant money.


Explain to me how you think this "grant money" scam works. While you're at it, show me how climate scientists are getting rich off this grant money while the honest oil company execs are just trying to protect us from being scammed.

Thousands of people are willing to lie to the world for decades for grant money in a single scientific field. I remember when I went to college everyone was talking about how they weren't going to become stockbrokers, or doctors, or lawyers, because all the real money was in climate science.

All the really greedy people in the world decided to go into climate science so they could make a killing in grant money. They've been at it well over a decade now, and yet not a single one of them have retired to their own private island because the grant money is just too sweet to give up. Don't believe me? Look at all the climate scientists on Forbes 500 richest list.
 
2014-04-16 11:28:46 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Steve Jobs and Bill gates also dropped out of college (a similarly irrelevant fact). Lack of a completed degree is no rational criterion for dismissing an argument. It is also a logical fallacy.


Feepit: Appeal to authority applies to the statement I quoted, where you were talking about letters after a name and having a career in a given field. Letters after a name can be obtained from a diploma mill and a career be as loosely defined as posting tripe on a topic to a blog. However, it is nice to see that you further qualified your criteria for authority such that it better avoids the fallacy.


It is not just his lack of credentials on the subject. I already mentioned his proven history of distorting and/or intentionally misrepresenting data. He has demonstrated an inability to understand the science or he is intentionally distorting the science for political reasons. Either way, his history has proven beyond a doubt that he is not someone who's opinions on this subject are worth even considering.

The fact is that credentials do matter when considering opinions on a scientific field. There is a minimum level of education and experience needed to be able to form an opinion worthy of consideration. The opinions of Joe Sixpack do not meet this minimum.

Additionally, since his opinions are in direct contradiction to the working, publishing, highly educated in this field scientists, his credentials are very relevant to how much credit I give anything he says on the subject.

In the end, he is a proven liar. Forgive me if I no longer give any credence to anything he says on the subject.
 
2014-04-16 11:31:55 AM  

Skr: Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald  " is played on the Classic Rock stations.

Vacationed through the Upper Penni of Michigan a few times. The trips were an excellent way for me to start hating Gordon Lightfoot. That stuff gets milked dry in gift shops.

The small bleep of 60-80 degree weather last week was the ticket to breaking up some of the water feeding Superior. 'Course winter decided to biatch slap the area again this week

Ice breaking up at Gooseberry Falls, Lake Superior


Nice. Thanks for that.
 
2014-04-16 11:36:56 AM  

FLMountainMan: bigsteve3OOO: A simple experiment will demonstrate why Al "praise be upon him" Gore is right.  Take a glass of soda and ice. fill it right to the rim. (ice in the lake).  Set it in the hot summer sun.(warming).  Watch it overflow onto the table. (metaphor for humanity if we dot pay carbon tax.  Science is repeatable.

Notsureiftrolling.  If not, you might want to reword that.

(hint:  water expands when it freezes)


Floating ice displaces its exact mass in liquid water. This means that the level of the water does not change because of the ice melting.

There can be a level change due to a temperature change in the liquid water or a change in salinity of the water ... but these are different effects not directly related to ice melting.
 
2014-04-16 11:38:01 AM  

Farking Canuck: Forgive me if I no longer give any credence to anything he says on the subject.


In this particular case, he didn't have anything to say. The page was just to a data dump of graphs that directly hot-linked to NOAA.
 
2014-04-16 11:39:08 AM  
If you deniers need any other evidence.  Dont believe scientist  believe mother nature.  If the globe wasnt getting warmer why are there no penguins in the north pole?  Those poor bastards are all gone thanks to your western co2 lifestyle.  Like a pidgin in a coal mine; they were the first to go.  We need to wake up.
 
2014-04-16 11:41:44 AM  

I.P.Daily: wesmon: aNihilV10L8tr: Asian carp is a more dangerous threat to the great lakes than the water staying cold a few weeks longer than average .

That's racist.

http://frenchtribune.com/teneur/1422126-lawmakers-considering-name-c ha nge-asian-carp-minnesota

The new, agreed upon name is invasive carp.

As a white man, I feel the name White Fish should be changed as to not make fun of my whiteness.
What a bunch of crap!


this! although after that long sunless winter i am unbelievably white, kind of like a fish.  DOH!
 
2014-04-16 11:41:56 AM  
Something tells me everything will be fine. Mother Nature is a pretty resilient biatch.
 
2014-04-16 11:43:16 AM  

Farking Canuck: FLMountainMan: bigsteve3OOO: A simple experiment will demonstrate why Al "praise be upon him" Gore is right.  Take a glass of soda and ice. fill it right to the rim. (ice in the lake).  Set it in the hot summer sun.(warming).  Watch it overflow onto the table. (metaphor for humanity if we dot pay carbon tax.  Science is repeatable.

Notsureiftrolling.  If not, you might want to reword that.

(hint:  water expands when it freezes)

Floating ice displaces its exact mass in liquid water. This means that the level of the water does not change because of the ice melting.

There can be a level change due to a temperature change in the liquid water or a change in salinity of the water ... but these are different effects not directly related to ice melting.


The ice has a higher albedo and both reflects the winter sunlight and prevents the evaporation from the comparatively darker open water. It also can support loads of snow. So a total freeze up does as much to prevent evaporation as much as adding to the levels.

I was down at the shore yesterday and Lake Ontario is up a bit already. It "crests", so to speak, in late May/early June. What would be nice is if Michigan and Huron could halt or reverse their severe water losses of the last few years.

www.thestar.com
 
2014-04-16 11:44:39 AM  

bigsteve3OOO: If you deniers need any other evidence.  Dont believe scientist  believe mother nature.  If the globe wasnt getting warmer why are there no penguins in the north pole?  Those poor bastards are all gone thanks to your western co2 lifestyle.  Like a pidgin in a coal mine; they were the first to go.  We need to wake up.


I don't know what your game is, but I find your bastardization of sayings amusing. :)
 
2014-04-16 11:45:02 AM  

Feepit: In this particular case, he didn't have anything to say. The page was just to a data dump of graphs that directly hot-linked to NOAA.


Yes. And I already said:

Farking Canuck: I will give him credit for pulling all of them together


But I went on to explain that I would recommend going directly to the sources of his graphs to ensure you get undistorted versions.
 
2014-04-16 11:51:38 AM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Whatchoo Talkinbout: I believe, now gimme the grant money.

Explain to me how you think this "grant money" scam works. While you're at it, show me how climate scientists are getting rich off this grant money while the honest oil company execs are just trying to protect us from being scammed.

Thousands of people are willing to lie to the world for decades for grant money in a single scientific field. I remember when I went to college everyone was talking about how they weren't going to become stockbrokers, or doctors, or lawyers, because all the real money was in climate science.

All the really greedy people in the world decided to go into climate science so they could make a killing in grant money. They've been at it well over a decade now, and yet not a single one of them have retired to their own private island because the grant money is just too sweet to give up. Don't believe me? Look at all the climate scientists on Forbes 500 richest list.


I'll be the first, gimme.
 
2014-04-16 11:52:38 AM  
Meh, if this goes through they wont have to worry about the lakes icing over again. Cant believe Canada would do something so evil. You used to be cool Cananda

i26.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-16 11:52:45 AM  

Farking Canuck: Tricky Chicken: Steve Jobs and Bill gates also dropped out of college (a similarly irrelevant fact). Lack of a completed degree is no rational criterion for dismissing an argument. It is also a logical fallacy.

Feepit: Appeal to authority applies to the statement I quoted, where you were talking about letters after a name and having a career in a given field. Letters after a name can be obtained from a diploma mill and a career be as loosely defined as posting tripe on a topic to a blog. However, it is nice to see that you further qualified your criteria for authority such that it better avoids the fallacy.

It is not just his lack of credentials on the subject. I already mentioned his proven history of distorting and/or intentionally misrepresenting data. He has demonstrated an inability to understand the science or he is intentionally distorting the science for political reasons. Either way, his history has proven beyond a doubt that he is not someone who's opinions on this subject are worth even considering.Ad hominim attack not addressing argument If an insane person says the earth is round, his insanity has no standing in regard to his argument.

The fact is that credentials do matter when considering opinions on a scientific field. There is a minimum level of education and experience needed to be able to form an opinion worthy of consideration.Appeal to authority. The opinions of Joe Sixpack do not meet this minimum.

Additionally, since his opinions are in direct contradiction to the working, publishing, highly educated in this field scientists appeal to authority, his credentials are very relevant to how much credit I give anything he says on the subject.

In the end, he is a proven liar.ad hominem again Forgive me if I no longer give any credence to anything he says on the subject.


Some fallacies highlighted for you.
 
2014-04-16 11:57:40 AM  
Global warming is clearly false.  Every autumn it gets cold.  Without fail, October is always colder than August.  How can it be getting warmer and cooler simultaneously?!  The logic is incontrovertible!
 
2014-04-16 12:00:39 PM  

Itstoearly: ghostfacekillahrabbit: There was an anti-climate change letter published in the Milwaukee paper today, on the shore of Lake Michigan that claimed that melting ice can't raise water levels.

Well, that depends.  If the ice is all floating in water, then it melting will not raise water levels (since ice is less dense than water, and the the ice will displace an amount of water equal to its mass).

If the ice that is melting is sitting on land, then yes, it will raise water levels.


Thank you. This is an important distinction to make.

/unfortunately, that means the letter writer is technically correct
//the best kind of correct
 
2014-04-16 12:17:58 PM  

phaseolus: ski9600: They are owned by Japanese, Koreans and European companies though.

I think Arcelor Mittal (Luxembourg, technically, but owned by an Indian living in England) owns most of the old Inland Steel and LTV/J&L/YS&T mills up there, now.

Onkel Buck: Site for freighter watchers boatnerd.com

I read that site's news page every day. Couple years ago when ex-wife kicked me out and I got a new place to live, I saw a big ol' boat1 tied up a couple blocks away and thought "holy shiat, that thing's kinda cool"... and that's how it all started.

1. It was the St. Mary's Challenger. RIP...


Haha me too. I was in SW Michigan one day, saw this big monstrosity called "Manistee" come into the harbor. I had no idea what it was at the time, but later found out that they still ship shiat on the Great Lakes, and it was bringing road salt in. Fast forward 5 years...full-fledged boatnerd.
 
2014-04-16 12:30:29 PM  

Yes this is dog: some_beer_drinker: Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald  " is played on the Classic Rock stations.

why on earth would you want to reduce that? they should have all day gordon lightfoot days.

I think playing "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is close enough to being an all day Gordon Lightfoot day in and of itself.

/long ass song


Edmund fits Gerald?
 
2014-04-16 12:34:47 PM  
Look on the bright side: no more stories about how the river level is so low the barges can't get to New Orleans.
 
2014-04-16 12:56:06 PM  

thecpt: A great article about CLIMATE CHANGE. Let goddamn Fox News use global warming incorrectly farkers.

Great article


Eh, why not?  Msnbc does.  Might as well let 'em cancel each other out.
 
2014-04-16 01:00:22 PM  
karmachameleon
2014-04-16 06:41:47 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change

You know how young-Earth creationists and anti-vaxxers sound completely and utterly stupid to all other rational people? Yeah...welcome to the list.

Ad hominem. For all fark occasions when you can't address the facts.
 
2014-04-16 01:04:25 PM  
brantgoose [TotalFark]

...I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect...
Yet every time there's a record high, we have bad-meteorologists posting pictures of the Earth on fire and fark pundits claiming those single events prove their religion is correct.
 
2014-04-16 01:10:10 PM  
Just remember, Halifax harbor is ice free, 365 days a year, send everything there! Problem solved.
 
2014-04-16 01:14:20 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: wesmon: Friction8r: This does not correlate well with spasmodic assertions of global warming I mean climate change. Therefore this thread will not draw the FECKLESS crowd and is thus rendered irrelevant.

You wear your stupidity like a badge I see.

Climate change doesn't just mean warmer everywhere all the time. But don't let the science get in the way of your blind assertions.

Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change


Actually, the term "Climate Change" was used in the 1970's, long before the press grabbed hold of the "Global Warming" moniker.

Know your history.
 
2014-04-16 01:20:27 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Some fallacies highlighted for you.


Your claims of ad hominem:
- I am not attempting to counter his arguments with personal attacks (the ad hominem fallacy). I am ignoring his arguments because of a history of dishonesty. This is similar to how someone should not leave their children with a proven child molester ... that would also not be an ad hominem attack.
- The arguments that earned him this ignore status were proven to be lies with evidence ... not with fallacies.

Your claims of appeal to authority:
- as stated above, this is only a fallacy when the authority has not been established as such. Otherwise no evidence could ever be considered because it all comes from "authorities".
- again, it a scientific field, there is far too much information and education needed to form truly informed opinions that it is beyond the vast majority of people ... even for scientists from unrelated fields. Obviously this is a sliding scale depending on how deep into the field you are debating.

I have a degree in chemical engineering, I have worked over 20 years in a materials research facility (8+ years as a researcher with 10 patents), and I am fairly well read on the topic of AGW. That said, I would not remotely consider myself an authority on the subject.

In science education matters, experience matters, level of familiarity with current events in the field matter. News reporters, politicians and 99.9% of bloggers do not have these things. Get your science from the scientists currently working and publishing in the field.
 
2014-04-16 01:30:22 PM  

OnlyM3: Yet every time there's a record high, we have bad-meteorologists posting pictures of the Earth on fire and fark pundits claiming those single events prove their religion is correct.



Looking at a wildfire I'm reminded of what the Buddha taught about letting go of attachments, so ... you're actually kind of right about something for a change.
 
2014-04-16 01:33:15 PM  

Farking Canuck: Tricky Chicken: Some fallacies highlighted for you.

Your claims of ad hominem:
- I am not attempting to counter his arguments with personal attacks (the ad hominem fallacy). I am ignoring his arguments because of a history of dishonesty. This is similar to how someone should not leave their children with a proven child molester ... that would also not be an ad hominem attack.
- The arguments that earned him this ignore status were proven to be lies with evidence ... not with fallacies.

Your claims of appeal to authority:
- as stated above, this is only a fallacy when the authority has not been established as such. Otherwise no evidence could ever be considered because it all comes from "authorities".
- again, it a scientific field, there is far too much information and education needed to form truly informed opinions that it is beyond the vast majority of people ... even for scientists from unrelated fields. Obviously this is a sliding scale depending on how deep into the field you are debating.

I have a degree in chemical engineering, I have worked over 20 years in a materials research facility (8+ years as a researcher with 10 patents), and I am fairly well read on the topic of AGW. That said, I would not remotely consider myself an authority on the subject.

In science education matters, experience matters, level of familiarity with current events in the field matter. News reporters, politicians and 99.9% of bloggers do not have these things. Get your science from the scientists currently working and publishing in the field.


And yet to this point, you have continued to avoid any mention of what his argument was.  You have focused solely on the person and nothing on the argument.

It would suffice to narrow your retore to the arguments of XXX have been soundly refuted by YYY.
 
2014-04-16 01:40:33 PM  

OnlyM3: karmachameleon
2014-04-16 06:41:47 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Global Warming Derp...calling Al Gore...need more Hockey Stick....oh wait...it's now Climate Change

You know how young-Earth creationists and anti-vaxxers sound completely and utterly stupid to all other rational people? Yeah...welcome to the list.
Ad hominem. For all fark occasions when you can't address the facts.


I don't want to nitpick too much, but this really isn't Ad hominem as no actual argument was presented in the first place - it's more trading insults than anything. If you want a better example, where someone attacks the people involved instead of the actual argument presented, you could look here:

OnlyM3: brantgoose [TotalFark]

...I doubt that this cold snap will alter the 37 year run of above base-line global average temperatures. It's just a blip in the regional, not the world, climate.

As Stéphane Mallarmé put it, a throw of the dice will never abolish chance. Weather does not refute climate, nor does regional climate nor natural variation refute the anthropogenic effect...

Yet every time there's a record high, we have bad-meteorologists posting pictures of the Earth on fire and fark pundits claiming those single events prove their religion is correct.

 
2014-04-16 01:42:27 PM  

Tricky Chicken: And yet to this point, you have continued to avoid any mention of what his argument was. You have focused solely on the person and nothing on the argument.

It would suffice to narrow your retore to the arguments of XXX have been soundly refuted by YYY.


I believe that we have already established, several times, that he was not making an argument.

I have not tried to refute any arguments. I've even pointed out where I applauded him for gathering all the data into one place.

I have been pointing out to those unfamiliar with this blogger, that he does not have any credentials in the field and that he has a history of dishonesty on the AGW subject. And, with that in consideration, they should go to the source for any scientific data to ensure that any graphs, maps, or other data they use is the unadulterated original.

This is good advice any time you wish to use scientific data but it is especially important when the site you found it on has a history of misrepresentation.
 
2014-04-16 01:53:24 PM  

UNC_Samurai: some_beer_drinker: Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald  " is played on the Classic Rock stations.

why on earth would you want to reduce that? they should have all day gordon lightfoot days.

Maybe not all day.  At least until sundown.


I was going to suggest that! It's almost as if you could read my mind.
 
2014-04-16 02:16:17 PM  

some_beer_drinker: because it's still frozen, and holding up commerce? have a nice steaming cup of shut the fark up. thanks


Or, y'know, because it might affect the entire ecosystem, but yeah, all about the commerce...

/Climate change isn't easily reversible because it's a snowball effect. One minor issue turns into ten major ones in a few years.
//thank you so farking much, America, for Bush over Gore.
 
2014-04-16 02:18:29 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Unfortunately, it will not reduce the number of times "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald " is played on the Classic Rock stations.


Do not fark with The Wreck.  Yes, it has a few places where the meter is off.  Still a goddamn great song.

/Why, yes, I do play a 12 string, why do you ask?
 
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