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(io9)   Creationists Cosmos. You're welcome, Jesus   (io9.com ) divider line
    More: Silly, innovations, degrasse tyson  
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5894 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Apr 2014 at 2:24 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 12:45:29 PM  
 
2014-04-15 12:47:34 PM  
Shut up, Jonah!
 
2014-04-15 12:48:11 PM  
Someone want to hurry up with that Rapture?
 
2014-04-15 01:08:04 PM  
"WE REJECT YOUR REALITY AND SUBSTITUTE OUR OWN!"

/well, that settles it, folks
 
2014-04-15 01:13:11 PM  
Take the FoD watermark off that and it would end up in more "FW:FW:FW:RE:FW;re:FW" emails and aunt-composted Facebook postings than originally imagined in all the cosmos.
 
2014-04-15 01:49:28 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Shut up, JonahJolly Green Jizz-Face!

 
2014-04-15 02:06:31 PM  
God did it.
[end credits]
 
2014-04-15 02:38:50 PM  
As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.
 
2014-04-15 02:40:15 PM  
So, when can we expect everyone involved with that video to die? Because it sure wasn't funny.
 
2014-04-15 02:40:26 PM  
FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: Facebook? God made it. Praise Him!!!!1!
 
2014-04-15 02:41:30 PM  

TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.


Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.
 
2014-04-15 02:45:15 PM  

Arkanaut: TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.

Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.


I'm pretty sure I read a biography about Steven Hawking that said Pope John Paul II approved of the Big Bang.
 
2014-04-15 02:46:35 PM  

TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.


Agree. I was raised Catholic* - including 12 years of Catholic school - and was always taught science and evolution. In fact, my 7th grade science fair project was on evolution. I don't get how people don't understand that God is science. You may not understand or like his methodology, but that's too bad.

*Currently, in recovery.
 
2014-04-15 02:47:42 PM  
That video was a bigger letdown than Fred Phelps being turned away from the pearly gates by Freddie Mercury.
 
2014-04-15 02:52:23 PM  

Arkanaut: Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.


The Catholic Church, to their credit, formally has no issue with any current scientific precepts or theories. I used to teach 8th grade science in a Catholic School and I taught it straight from the syllabus. There were ZERO notes on what could and could not be taught. It was pretty much straight forward - "This is Science, which is fact until proven otherwise, oh and sorry again about Galileo."
Seriously.
 
2014-04-15 02:52:30 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: That video was a bigger letdown than Fred Phelps being turned away from the pearly gates by Freddie Mercury.


Isn't everything a let down compared to watching that happen?
 
2014-04-15 02:53:35 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-15 02:54:48 PM  

Arkanaut: TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.

Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.


I don't know about the official Vatican viewpoint, but the Big Bang theory was originally developed by a Catholic priest. Edwin Hubble independently discovered the same concepts, and experimentally verified them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
 
2014-04-15 02:55:00 PM  
The show is overtly political and it's enjoyable to watch that aspect.  Last night, the episode had an aside in which Tyson used basic physics to show that a belief that everything was created 6500 years ago is not only incorrect, but disprovably so.

He didn't actually say the words "the Bible is wrong," but there it is.

It's refreshing to have someone articulate be polite and firm in rejecting creationism, especially after watching various states embrace a philosophy that should have been discarded after the Scopes trial.
 
2014-04-15 02:55:59 PM  
Lasted 5 seconds. Too obvious, too easy, and too stupid.

Making fun of Creationists by parodying what you think they believe isn't funny.

They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.
 
2014-04-15 02:57:16 PM  

Miss5280: I don't get how people don't understand that God is science.


That's because it's not. God is a thing, science is a process. They're not even comparable. Saying God is science is like saying eating is a fruit. It's complete nonsense.
 
2014-04-15 02:57:34 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: [i.imgur.com image 800x557]


The problem I have with that kind of viewpoint is the idea that at some point in time we were a perfectly rational and scientific society. We weren't.

There's also no convincing scientific evidence that a wholly rational and superstition-free society would be better than the one we have now.
 
2014-04-15 02:57:47 PM  

Arkanaut: Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.



The guy who first proposed the idea was a Catholic priest.
 
2014-04-15 03:00:01 PM  

James Rieper: He didn't actually say the words "the Bible is wrong," but there it is.


The Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6,000 years old, either. That was the conclusion of a 19th-century preacher who pulled a lot of the numbers used to calculate that age out of his ass.

Creationism isn't just horseshiat, it's biblically-unsupported horseshiat.
 
2014-04-15 03:04:37 PM  

Ishkur: Lasted 5 seconds. Too obvious, too easy, and too stupid.

Making fun of Creationists by parodying what you think they believe isn't funny.

They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.


You're right.  They create arguments out of thin air to support their own ideas.  That is advanced denial, not flat-out.
 
2014-04-15 03:04:49 PM  

Ishkur: Miss5280: I don't get how people don't understand that God is science.

That's because it's not. God is a thing, science is a process. They're not even comparable. Saying God is science is like saying eating is a fruit. It's complete nonsense.


I don't want to put words in people's mouth, but my interpretation is this:

"I don't get how people don't understand that if God created the universe, the he was the author of the physical laws that govern it, and he gave us the rational capacity to investigate those physical laws. If you believe in a kind and caring God, then the process of science fundamentally cannot be opposed to religion. A good God would not set out his creation with the explicit command to worship and obey him, and then purposefully give that same creation the tools necessary to contravene himself. The pursuit of science is therefore at worst orthogonal to God's wishes, but in actuality is probably something that is highly approved of."
 
2014-04-15 03:07:37 PM  

Ishkur: They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.


Well, yea, sometimes it IS just flat-out denial. There's a whole group out there who literally believe that everything was made 6000-8000 years ago as it is today and that it has never changed.

Regardless, you're talking about nothing more than the old "god of the gaps". That's no better. The only acceptable answer to unanswered questions is "I don't know". "Magic" is never the right answer. Ever.
 
2014-04-15 03:11:44 PM  

Fubini: Ishkur: Miss5280: I don't get how people don't understand that God is science.

That's because it's not. God is a thing, science is a process. They're not even comparable. Saying God is science is like saying eating is a fruit. It's complete nonsense.

I don't want to put words in people's mouth, but my interpretation is this:

"I don't get how people don't understand that if God created the universe, the he was the author of the physical laws that govern it, and he gave us the rational capacity to investigate those physical laws. If you believe in a kind and caring God, then the process of science fundamentally cannot be opposed to religion. A good God would not set out his creation with the explicit command to worship and obey him, and then purposefully give that same creation the tools necessary to contravene himself. The pursuit of science is therefore at worst orthogonal to God's wishes, but in actuality is probably something that is highly approved of."


Yup. That's it.
 
2014-04-15 03:15:47 PM  

jigger: The guy who first proposed the idea was a Catholic priest.


But there's nothing unusual about that since the Catholic Church tightly controlled education and literacy in Europe for over a thousand years. Therefore, most scholars are going to be tied to the Church in some way.

Furthermore, I dislike the correlation of a religion claiming scientific achievement simply because the discoverer was religious. In most cases, their religion did not inform their science, and the discovery would have happened irrespective of the faith of the discoverer. So it's a rather useless gesture to make.

With that said, the Catholic Church gave up trying to fight science on a lot of things a long time ago, so it's not unusual for its scholars to be at the forefront of progress. Most of the resistance is coming from hardcore American Evangelicals, and they don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity anyway.
 
2014-04-15 03:18:53 PM  

skozlaw: Well, yea, sometimes it IS just flat-out denial.


If that was the case, this would not be 90 minutes long.
 
2014-04-15 03:20:45 PM  

skozlaw: The only acceptable answer to unanswered questions is "I don't know". "Magic" is never the right answer. Ever.


Their response to that would be: YOU DON'T KNOW either. Not even about things you think you DO know. You weren't there, how could you determine that?

Uniformitarianism is NEVER the right answer. Ever.
 
2014-04-15 03:22:34 PM  
How about SubGenius Cosmos hosted by....

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-15 03:25:29 PM  
Ishkur

Miss5280: I don't get how people don't understand that God is science.

That's because it's not. God is a thing, science is a process. They're not even comparable. Saying God is science is like saying eating is a fruit. It's complete nonsense.



Ah, but there you miss the true beauty of a concept as nebulous as "god." Depending on what your human wants and needs are, God can be the Alpha that has his eye on the sparrow and more importantly, you masturbating... Or God can be the Omega author of the laws that set galaxies spinning. Both a floor wax AND a dessert topping, depending on your requirements.
 
2014-04-15 03:28:25 PM  
I take the name "Funny or Die" as a statement of contract.
Since it isn't funny to anyone that isn't an avid fan of "Ow! My Balls!", I am expecting them to uphold their promise.
 
2014-04-15 03:28:50 PM  

Fubini: Ishkur: Miss5280: I don't get how people don't understand that God is science.

That's because it's not. God is a thing, science is a process. They're not even comparable. Saying God is science is like saying eating is a fruit. It's complete nonsense.

I don't want to put words in people's mouth, but my interpretation is this:

"I don't get how people don't understand that if God created the universe, the he was the author of the physical laws that govern it, and he gave us the rational capacity to investigate those physical laws. If you believe in a kind and caring God, then the process of science fundamentally cannot be opposed to religion. A good God would not set out his creation with the explicit command to worship and obey him, and then purposefully give that same creation the tools necessary to contravene himself. The pursuit of science is therefore at worst orthogonal to God's wishes, but in actuality is probably something that is highly approved of."


Either that, or Miss5280grooves to Spinoza.  In which case her statement would be correct (it mistakes map for territory, but it's metaphorical, so whatever).
 
2014-04-15 03:28:52 PM  

Arkanaut: TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.

Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.


Yup. I dated one of those. Well, her parents were, and she pretended, for their sake to go along with them. I sometimes wonder if they had any idea that their only child is a bisexual barely functioning alcoholic petty thief compulsive liar?
 
2014-04-15 03:34:06 PM  

maxheck: Ah, but there you miss the true beauty of a concept as nebulous as "god." Depending on what your human wants and needs are, God can be the Alpha that has his eye on the sparrow and more importantly, you masturbating... Or God can be the Omega author of the laws that set galaxies spinning. Both a floor wax AND a dessert topping, depending on your requirements.


Yes, but then that's no longer the Judeo-Christian God as defined in the Bible, that's pantheism.
 
2014-04-15 03:36:14 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: Ishkur: Lasted 5 seconds. Too obvious, too easy, and too stupid.

Making fun of Creationists by parodying what you think they believe isn't funny.

They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.

You're right.  They create arguments out of thin air to support their own ideas.  That is advanced denial, not flat-out.


And that's what makes it Creation  Science.
 
2014-04-15 03:38:04 PM  
I used to believe in a higher power, but then I grew up and left the fairy tales behind. Isn't life hard enough without all the rules and restrictions nearly all religions dictate in some form or another? It's all bullshiat that served its purpose a long time ago as a primitive form of government.
 
2014-04-15 03:49:00 PM  

TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.


Because we've gotten to the point where the only god who can coexist with current scientific knowledge is the deist god: one that set everything in motion, then sat back and watched.  And that god is still just a god of the gaps.  However, most religions depict an intervening god, which is not logically possible.  If a god was intervening in the state of the world this "god effect" would necessarily be measurable.

For example, if you see the equation _ + 4 = 6, you know that there must be another input, because the known input, 4, does not fully account for the observed output, 6.  Therefore, you can infer the existence of "2" in this equation, because the "2" is necessary to make the equation work.

But what if you have 2 + 4 + God = 6?  What is the value of "God" in this equation?  The known inputs, 2 and 4, already fully account for the observed output, 6.  Therefore, the value of "God" must necessarily be "0".  The result of the equation would be the same whether the "God" value was present or not.  Therefore, for simplicity's sake, we omit it.

This is what we observe in reality.  Whether gods exist or not, we have already observed that their input is not necessary to observe the outputs we see, as previously-existing inputs already fully account for them.
 
2014-04-15 03:50:40 PM  

TheManMythLegend: As a Christian I never got how Science and God can not co-exist. It would be weird to me to hear a sermon that was anti science.  I suppose being a Mid-West protestant is different than some others.  We even had sermons on how evolution is real in church growing up.  I have had pastors who where Science teachers and Electrical engineers before they went back to seminary.


What have we observed that can only be explained with "God did it."? Call me a heretic, but the entire purpose of science is to explain reality in a way that doesn't require miracles. In any case, the human body is a pretty slap-dash kludge of a machine. It doesn't instill me with much confidence that its creator takes its job seriously.
 
2014-04-15 03:50:47 PM  

Ishkur: They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.


I have sat in the assembly of the local megachurch and listened with my own two ears to their pastor confirm that the earth is a mere few millennia old.  I confirmed what I heard with my wife.  That is flat-out denial of evidence.
 
2014-04-15 03:51:24 PM  
Lets make this easy. God does not exist. The earth is not 6000 years old. Why is this even being discussed?

/flame away
 
2014-04-15 03:57:27 PM  

factoryconnection: Ishkur: They have a lot of documentaries out there that explain evolution and cosmology within their religious framework. It's never just flat-out denial.

I have sat in the assembly of the local megachurch and listened with my own two ears to their pastor confirm that the earth is a mere few millennia old.  I confirmed what I heard with my wife.  That is flat-out denial of evidence.


Wait 'til you get into the Earth was created old arguments, those are fun.
 
2014-04-15 04:02:02 PM  

Cymbal: I used to believe in a higher power, but then I grew up and left the fairy tales behind. Isn't life hard enough without all the rules and restrictions nearly all religions dictate in some form or another? It's all bullshiat that served its purpose a long time ago as a primitive form of government.


I was raised Catholic, and this is the point I have reached as well.  Maybe there is some grand creator out there, but even if there is I fully believe that he's not going to damn me to an eternity in hell for farking my girlfriend or eating meat on Fridays.
 
2014-04-15 04:02:55 PM  

edip1976: Arkanaut: Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution (not sure about the Big Bang, but it's still something).  It's the Biblical literalists who make everyone else look bad.

The Catholic Church, to their credit, formally has no issue with any current scientific precepts or theories. I used to teach 8th grade science in a Catholic School and I taught it straight from the syllabus. There were ZERO notes on what could and could not be taught. It was pretty much straight forward - "This is Science, which is fact until proven otherwise, oh and sorry again about Galileo."
Seriously.


In my catholic high school, we had science (like evolution) and religion as separate subjects and no conflict. In fact, our religion class focus more on the concepts of family, friends and don't be a dick to others.
 
2014-04-15 04:04:18 PM  
Ishkur:

maxheck: Ah, but there you miss the true beauty of a concept as nebulous as "god." Depending on what your human wants and needs are, God can be the Alpha that has his eye on the sparrow and more importantly, you masturbating... Or God can be the Omega author of the laws that set galaxies spinning. Both a floor wax AND a dessert topping, depending on your requirements.

Yes, but then that's no longer the Judeo-Christian God as defined in the Bible, that's pantheism.


When you get a snake-handling Protestant church in Appalachia to agree with Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem to agree with Roman Catholics in Rome about such things and so on, I'll agree that there's some "Judeo-Christian God as defined in the Bible." Until that happens, I'm going to assume it's pretty much whatever a particular sect wants to define it as. I.E. It's a nebulous concept that people define however they see fit.  Heck, there's an enormous range of definitions just within the oldest of the "Judeo-Christian" traditions if you want to contrast Gnostics vs. modern Orthodox. Don't get me started with the other Abrahamic traditions working from the same book, you don't want to know how the Sufi perceive "God."
 
2014-04-15 04:04:28 PM  

Creoena: Lets make this easy. God does not exist. The earth is not 6000 years old. Why is this even being discussed?


Because you lack sufficient evidence to assert your first point.

/Feel free to try to positively disprove the existence of an immaterial being using material evidence.
//"Well, you can't prove he exists" is not proof of his non-existence. I also can't prove to you that either creativity or Australia exists.
 
2014-04-15 04:10:56 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: James Rieper: He didn't actually say the words "the Bible is wrong," but there it is.

The Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6,000 years old, either. That was the conclusion of a 19th-century preacher who pulled a lot of the numbers used to calculate that age out of his ass.

Creationism isn't just horseshiat, it's biblically-unsupported horseshiat.


I think we're on the same page.  Genesis has a family tree of the patriarchs that followed Adam.  The ages given for these people are impossibly long (and you correctly point out that there are gaps), but the total span of time depicted usually clocks in somewhere between 6K and 7.5K years.  If you go for a literal interpretation of the Bible, then this is the next stop on that mental journey.

There are other obvious problems with Genesis, but then you run into classic old school religious stuff.  If you prove that one part of the sacred text is fallible, then that opens the rest to question.  To keep that from happening, the stories and their interpretations have to be guarded.  The next step becomes a question of how vigorously that happens.

It's true that the Catholic church has a history of education and scientific discovery, but it's co-existed with a tradition of burning both books and scholars.  A lot of discoveries had to be kept in secret until the political mood of the Vatican could be tested first.  The treatment of Copernicus versus Galileo is the classic case of this, but there are others.  Even today this particular religious organization is opposed to certain scientific inquiries that run afoul of its current political concerns, such as genetics or stem cell research.

Really that's what I like about this Cosmos -- it acknowledges that even simple ideas have real political fallout.  There is still the sense of wonder and skepticism, but it's also savvier.
 
2014-04-15 04:14:58 PM  

Ishkur: Furthermore, I dislike the correlation of a religion claiming scientific achievement simply because the discoverer was religious. In most cases, their religion did not inform their science, and the discovery would have happened irrespective of the faith of the discoverer. So it's a rather useless gesture to make.


First, Georges Lemaitre earned his doctorate in 1920. That's well past the point where higher learning had moved outside the church (he actually earned that degree at MIT, case in point). 

Second, I don't think anyone has claimed that Catholicism owns the big bang theory because the discoverer happened to be a priest, but the fact does fly in the face of those who think that religious people are necessarily unscientific.

As to the bolded statement, the Jesuits would like to have a word with you.
 
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