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(National Geographic)   Scientists start looking at the gut bacteria of some of those Paleo diet weirdos   (phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, paleo diet, gut bacteria, Paleo, scientists, Western Lifestyle, stool tests, Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, tubers  
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4108 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Apr 2014 at 2:14 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 02:22:21 PM  
Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.
 
2014-04-15 02:33:47 PM  
It must be tough to go up to a hunter gatherer tribesman, who is minding their own business and asking for a "sample".

/sounds like a job for a grad student/intern
 
2014-04-15 02:37:35 PM  

AlgaeRancher: It must be tough to go up to a hunter gatherer tribesman, who is minding their own business and asking for a "sample".

/sounds like a job for a grad student/intern


Time to re-watch "Never Cry Wolf".

/Good idea.
 
2014-04-15 02:37:44 PM  

Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.


Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise. Our bodies are amazingly well adapted to hold onto nutrients in anticipation of lean times ahead; if you start eating less your body will do everything it can to reduce the amount of calories it burns so that your output matches your intake.

That said, the Paleo diet is probably a lot better for your general health than the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.
 
2014-04-15 02:41:52 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.

Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise. Our bodies are amazingly well adapted to hold onto nutrients in anticipation of lean times ahead; if you start eating less your body will do everything it can to reduce the amount of calories it burns so that your output matches your intake.

That said, the Paleo diet is probably a lot better for your general health than the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.


No.

You'll lose weight if you actually bother to count calories.  These people are just eating as many calories as before, regardless of the source.  Your body needs less calories as you lose weight because there's literally less of you to maintain.  It's not because some vital metabolism is slowing down, it's that there's less there that needs to metabolize in the first place.  Exercise is for health and shape, diet is for overall mass.
 
2014-04-15 02:43:28 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.


What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.
 
2014-04-15 02:48:00 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.

Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise. Our bodies are amazingly well adapted to hold onto nutrients in anticipation of lean times ahead; if you start eating less your body will do everything it can to reduce the amount of calories it burns so that your output matches your intake.

That said, the Paleo diet is probably a lot better for your general health than the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.


Quite the opposite. The best (and least fun) way to lose weight is to eat less. The body is remarkably efficient and it takes a hell of a lot of exercise to burn off that sausage you had for dinner. It is much more effective to just skip the sausage.

/of course there are other reasons to exercise
 
2014-04-15 02:50:06 PM  

Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.


It's designed to be a long term lifestyle to improve and maintain health, not a short term weight loss diet.  If they want to lose weight on it, they should probably modify it and reduce the carbs 'til they reach their maintenance weight.

That or they are not truly eating Paleo, which admittedly, is rather difficult, expensive, and requires lot of cooking.
 
2014-04-15 02:57:22 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.

Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise.


How to lose weight and keep it off (ordered from most important):

1. Diet: Restrict calories and make healthier food choices
2. Lift weights
3. Moderate aerobic exercise

Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.

But reducing caloric intake is the main way to lose weight which is why I suggested they need to go live in a hunger/gatherer tribe in Africa.
 
2014-04-15 03:08:47 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise.



Like others have said, bullshiat. You'll lose weight if you just do all the things you normally do and just eat less. But to be able to eat less successfully over a long period of time, you have to do it the right way. You have to get control of your hunger hormones first. Then get control of your insulin. Only then will you be able to handle eating less throughout the day, every day for months. Basically you have to avoid all the wrong things to eat, eat all the "right" things, and then you'll have your hormones and blood sugar in check, and you're ready to start restricting calories and losing weight.
 
2014-04-15 03:41:04 PM  

jigger: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise.


Like others have said, bullshiat. You'll lose weight if you just do all the things you normally do and just eat less. But to be able to eat less successfully over a long period of time, you have to do it the right way. You have to get control of your hunger hormones first. Then get control of your insulin. Only then will you be able to handle eating less throughout the day, every day for months. Basically you have to avoid all the wrong things to eat, eat all the "right" things, and then you'll have your hormones and blood sugar in check, and you're ready to start restricting calories and losing weight.


Thank god someone said it. The stupidest thing you can say about weight loss is "just eat less." That's like telling an alcoholic the solution to their problem is to just stop drinking so darn much. The problem (and solution) is much deeper than that.
 
2014-04-15 04:00:22 PM  
I wonder what the average lifespan of the Hanza is?
 
2014-04-15 04:08:06 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.


And Doritos. Don't forget Doritos.
 
2014-04-15 04:11:26 PM  

IgG4: I wonder what the average lifespan of the Hanza is?


meh, lifespan is a product of pharmaceuticals and medical procedures.  Even going back to the 20th century the average lifespan wasn't any longer than the Paleolithic era.

a better question is what does a hunter/gatherer looks like at age 50 - in shape and active?  soft on a downtrend loaded up with diabetes meds and statins?
 
2014-04-15 04:11:51 PM  

IgG4: I wonder what the average lifespan of the Hanza is?


http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.p df
 
2014-04-15 04:13:19 PM  
Whops,hit post too soon. Right now it looks like 45.
 
2014-04-15 04:21:11 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.


Bbbut....

I prefer little cheeseburgers!

assets2.whitecastle.com

Preferably with jalapeños...

/No White Castles in DC.  I am sad.
 
2014-04-15 04:32:48 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.


As the official representative of the bacon lobby, I must point out a significant absence from this list.
 
2014-04-15 04:39:15 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.

Bbbut....

I prefer little cheeseburgers!

[assets2.whitecastle.com image 270x250]

Preferably with jalapeños...

/No White Castles in DC.  I am sad.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tavern

So sad.
 
2014-04-15 04:43:08 PM  

AlgaeRancher: It must be tough to go up to a hunter gatherer tribesman, who is minding their own business and asking for a "sample".

/sounds like a job for a grad student/intern


There is one problem with the study: the team stored their Hadza stool samples in alcohol, which can seriously affect the proportions of different species found within them.

Specifically, tequila.
 
2014-04-15 04:44:47 PM  

sendtodave: DjangoStonereaver: Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.

Bbbut....

I prefer little cheeseburgers!

[assets2.whitecastle.com image 270x250]

Preferably with jalapeños...

/No White Castles in DC.  I am sad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tavern

So sad.


Indeed.  I had heard of these, actually (they got their start around the same time WC did) but I thought
they had all closed in the 60s.

I am REALLY sad now.
 
2014-04-15 04:46:40 PM  

hstein3: Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.

As the official representative of the bacon lobby, I must point out a significant absence from this list.


Well, there's good news for you: "There is no such thing as too much bacon" is one of the mantras for Paleo/Primal eating!
 
2014-04-15 09:10:57 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.

Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise. Our bodies are amazingly well adapted to hold onto nutrients in anticipation of lean times ahead; if you start eating less your body will do everything it can to reduce the amount of calories it burns so that your output matches your intake.

That said, the Paleo diet is probably a lot better for your general health than the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.


in my personal experience that's actually dead wrong. I used to exercise like a demon and was hugely fat, tweaked my diet to get carbs under 60 a day , changed nothing else, lost 100lbs in under 6 months.  Kept it off near on 10 years even after reverting to my old diet.  Lost another to recently after doing it again
 
2014-04-15 10:30:31 PM  

Pincy: Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.


Yeah, this is also complete bullshiat, just like those graphs on treadmills that trick you into staying in the "fat burning zone." The entire thought process is rooted in the fact that if you keep your heart rate in a designated zone, fat will become your body's dominant source of energy (note, not the sole source).

The body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35%. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.
 
2014-04-15 11:09:03 PM  
South Bronx Paradise, Baby!

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-04-15 11:18:18 PM  

Starshines: jigger: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise.


Like others have said, bullshiat. You'll lose weight if you just do all the things you normally do and just eat less. But to be able to eat less successfully over a long period of time, you have to do it the right way. You have to get control of your hunger hormones first. Then get control of your insulin. Only then will you be able to handle eating less throughout the day, every day for months. Basically you have to avoid all the wrong things to eat, eat all the "right" things, and then you'll have your hormones and blood sugar in check, and you're ready to start restricting calories and losing weight.

Thank god someone said it. The stupidest thing you can say about weight loss is "just eat less." That's like telling an alcoholic the solution to their problem is to just stop drinking so darn much. The problem (and solution) is much deeper than that.


True, eating less is still the best solution, just like abstaining from alcohol is ultimately the best solution to alcoholism. Many of these fad diets are analogous to telling an alcoholic to move from the hard stuff to beer and wine.

/that's not to say that it is easy to eat less/not drink, just that these diets also fail to get to the root problems
 
2014-04-16 12:07:50 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Pincy: Most of the people I know who claim they are on the Paleo diet never lose weight.  I think they need to go live in an African hunter/gatherer village if they really want to lose weight.

Using any kind of diet to lose weight is a doomed endeavour if you don't combine it with vigorous exercise. Our bodies are amazingly well adapted to hold onto nutrients in anticipation of lean times ahead; if you start eating less your body will do everything it can to reduce the amount of calories it burns so that your output matches your intake.

That said, the Paleo diet is probably a lot better for your general health than the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.


Which is why I've lost 60 lbs in 3 years of becoming a truck driver, whose exercise regimen consists of walking into and out of warehouses. 20 lbs a year for 3 years. I used to walk several miles a day at malls, walk up and down stairs constantly, lift weights, hike.

I also used to hit drive throughs for ice cream on my way to client meetings. Eat out twice daily (at least). Easy access to any food I wanted to put in my mouth.

I'm still 30 lbs over what I was when I went into the financial industry but dietary changes more than made up for greatly lowering my exercise since I sit in my expedite truck almost all day long.
 
2014-04-16 12:48:44 AM  

hstein3: Scrotastic Method: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: the average American diet which consists mainly of pizza, Twinkies, and Mountain Dew.

What a shortsighted and simplistic view of American culture. It's borderline offensive.

Because you forgot cheeseburgers.

As the official representative of the bacon lobby, I must point out a significant absence from this list.


Fries with that?

It's OK. We've got Diet Coke.
 
2014-04-16 09:04:01 AM  

Marmilman: Pincy: Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.

Yeah, this is also complete bullshiat, just like those graphs on treadmills that trick you into staying in the "fat burning zone." The entire thought process is rooted in the fact that if you keep your heart rate in a designated zone, fat will become your body's dominant source of energy (note, not the sole source).

The body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35%. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.


Exercising at a vigorous level stresses your system. Once or twice a week is fine so long as you give your body plenty of time to recover. Chronically exercising like that will compromise your immune system in the short term, and negatively effect your heart and joints in the long term. We see this all the time in pro athletes.

Plus if your constantly depleting your glycogen stores, you'll end up Carbo loading most likely on sugars and grains, another negative on health.
 
2014-04-16 09:55:33 AM  

sendtodave: AlgaeRancher: It must be tough to go up to a hunter gatherer tribesman, who is minding their own business and asking for a "sample".

/sounds like a job for a grad student/intern

There is one problem with the study: the team stored their Hadza stool samples in alcohol, which can seriously affect the proportions of different species found within them.

Specifically, tequila.


I think you lose a bit of science cred if you store crap which contains bacteria in a liquid which kills bacteria.
 
2014-04-16 01:28:08 PM  

Marmilman: Pincy: Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.

Yeah, this is also complete bullshiat, just like those graphs on treadmills that trick you into staying in the "fat burning zone." The entire thought process is rooted in the fact that if you keep your heart rate in a designated zone, fat will become your body's dominant source of energy (note, not the sole source).

The body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35%. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.


Sure.  But if you are fat and out of shape going with the lower intensity workouts is a great way to start.  Less chance of injury.  Overall easier to do and maintain.

Break your old habits and create new ones.
 
2014-04-16 01:53:20 PM  

NakedDrummer: Marmilman: Pincy: Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.

Yeah, this is also complete bullshiat, just like those graphs on treadmills that trick you into staying in the "fat burning zone." The entire thought process is rooted in the fact that if you keep your heart rate in a designated zone, fat will become your body's dominant source of energy (note, not the sole source).

The body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35%. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.

Exercising at a vigorous level stresses your system. Once or twice a week is fine so long as you give your body plenty of time to recover. Chronically exercising like that will compromise your immune system in the short term, and negatively effect your heart and joints in the long term. We see this all the time in pro athletes.

Plus if your constantly depleting your glycogen stores, you'll end up Carbo loading most likely on sugars and grains, another negative on health.


You two are talking about completely unrelated things. Pincy repeated a myth stemming from errantly applied facts about our metabolic energy systems, while you're addressing the often overlooked importance of implementing rest days / rest weeks and proper nutrition in one's workout program.

Obviously, vigorous exercise stresses your body more than moderate exercise.That's the whole point; to force your body to adapt to those stresses quicker.
 
2014-04-16 02:02:44 PM  

stappawho: Marmilman: Pincy: Aerobic exercise is important for a lot of reasons but it really isn't the most important thing for losing weight.  Also, you don't want it to be too vigorous.  Moderate aerobics (like a brisk walk) is best for burning fat.

Yeah, this is also complete bullshiat, just like those graphs on treadmills that trick you into staying in the "fat burning zone." The entire thought process is rooted in the fact that if you keep your heart rate in a designated zone, fat will become your body's dominant source of energy (note, not the sole source).

The body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50% of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35%. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.

Sure.  But if you are fat and out of shape going with the lower intensity workouts is a great way to start.  Less chance of injury.  Overall easier to do and maintain.

Break your old habits and create new ones.


Agreed. Going from 0-100mph is a great way to crash and burn. But let's not confuse ourselves into believing that we burn more fat by taking it easy.
 
2014-04-16 02:08:24 PM  

NakedDrummer: Once or twice a week is fine so long as you give your body plenty of time to recover.


That is not true. It just means that proper nutrition and adequate rest is much more important to an efficient recovery.
 
2014-04-16 11:57:02 PM  

sendtodave: AlgaeRancher: It must be tough to go up to a hunter gatherer tribesman, who is minding their own business and asking for a "sample".

/sounds like a job for a grad student/intern

There is one problem with the study: the team stored their Hadza stool samples in alcohol, which can seriously affect the proportions of different species found within them.

Specifically, tequila.


That's good shiat, man!
 
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