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(CTV News)   Ukrainian tanks on the move as "pro-Russian" gunmen dig in. The fecal matter has hit the whirling blades of doom, everyone   (ctvnews.ca ) divider line
    More: Followup, Ukrainian, Russians, Oleksandr Turchynov, East Ukraine, Ukrainian tanks, Government of Ukraine, Kyiv, Russian flag  
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4712 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 10:30 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 12:51:22 PM  

m00: This is how WWII started.


everyone knows WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour.
 
2014-04-15 12:51:50 PM  
When the Russians suddenly withdraw, that's when you need to worry.
 
2014-04-15 12:52:17 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?

Even if Russia takes the Ukraine, they can't expand a whole lot further without hitting new NATO nations like Poland. If anything, Putin is acting out of fear of the EU and NATO encroaching past the old Eastern Block and into the old Soviet Union, which is why he made his move when he did. The revolution in the Ukraine forced his hand, and he had to act to keep the Ukraine from slipping over to the West. If anything, his recent actions show how weak Russia has become, barely able to exert power over their own region without resorting to force.

Putin has been swinging his dick around a lot lately, but it really says more about his own insecurities than it does our weakness.


Let's hope you're right, because it seems hope is the only thing we're going to deploy now that sanctions are off the table.

/hope and change
//our hope that Putin doesn't change the bargain any further
 
2014-04-15 12:55:45 PM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


It's practically useless unless you have air superiority where it's operating, though. It's a Stuka. An F-16 dropping 2,000-pound JDAMs is much more effective against a real military force, and it can defend itself.
 
2014-04-15 12:56:23 PM  

DrBenway: dittybopper: TheShavingofOccam123: MG Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor.

Means he had big brass balls.  Doesn't mean he was 100% *RIGHT*.  You know who else had medals of honor?

Vice Presidential candidate who was barely there James Stockdale.

Racist/Fascist Charles Lindbergh.

Just because you happen to be brave, doesn't make you infallible, or right about all things.

You might have a point if that was what made Butler right about things. The Medal of Honor is just a calling card.


And Lindbergh was right about a bunch of things aeronautical, but it didn't make him an expert on eugenics.

I'd also point out that Butler died before the US was forced into WWII.  So what would he have thought about that?

Actually, he probably would have thought the US should stay out, until the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, at which point he would have been all for US involvement, if the organizations he was associated with had any pull on him.
 
2014-04-15 12:56:25 PM  

SurelyShirley: wraithmare: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

The Germans?

Oh come on people! Be precise. It was the EAST Germans that bombed Pearl Harbor. Farkin' Commies!
The West Germans were the good guys. They held the line against North Korea.


Oh cut it out...that was General Custer and you know it.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:36 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.


A draft won't be reinstituted. Mass conscript armies are a thing of the past. Professional armies are far more effective, which is why most countries are moving in that direction if they haven't already (including Russia).
 
2014-04-15 12:59:35 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


Did they keep the sales slip?  Do they have the inflation-adjusted monies?
 
2014-04-15 01:00:15 PM  

Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.


Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.
 
2014-04-15 01:00:26 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


I'm sure the Ukrainian army would welcome a new volunteer.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:24 PM  

codigo: grumpfuff: bobothemagnificent: [img.fark.net image 750x574]
We'll just send them Chuck.

I think he's a bit worn out.

[ll-media.tmz.com image 550x570]

Looks like his beard isn't with him. Maybe it's on a plane over there.


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-15 01:02:40 PM  

This text is now purple: dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?

Joke's on them. We already took the gold, oil, and useful timber. All that's left is the cold and the misery.


But enough about the Palin family.
 
2014-04-15 01:03:08 PM  

IamAwake: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

There's the US, and then there's everywhere else - half and half.  Europe is a small part of that everywhere-else bit - it's basicly Europe, some oil refineries on some sand somewhere, and a place with lots of manufacturing plants.  At this point Europe is like our tiny, old, senile grandparent whom we still love even when he's babbling inanely - thank G-d for nursing homes, amirite?  Yeah, so it wasn't really a "World War" until we joined it.  It was basicly Europe or whatever.


The coldwar is over, so now its time for you to be really polite again. ;)
 
2014-04-15 01:03:16 PM  

stevarooni: dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?

Did they keep the sales slip?  Do they have the inflation-adjusted monies?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_III_(TV_miniseries)

Cheesy, but kind of fun.
 
2014-04-15 01:03:47 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.


Posted before I saw the ribbons.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:17 PM  

Gunny Highway: dittybopper: Gunny Highway: danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.

Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.

They've gone into hiding because they don't want to be shot.

That sucks but I suppose it is expected.


Actually 40,000 are training as the new National Guard. I think it would be silly to have pro government protesters counter protest Spetznatz in Russian friendly territory with out the tanks to back them up.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:24 PM  
Another "not Russian special forces" local insurgent.  Wonder if he feels threatened:

fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-04-15 01:04:51 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.


*News flash* The draft would draw from the ranks of people who have registered for selective service. Currently only 18 year old MALES are required to register. Obama needs to end the descrimination against men.
 
2014-04-15 01:05:20 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 01:05:34 PM  

Amish Tech Support: Russia is a dieing country. Check out their birth rates and economic conditions.

This is a distraction for the masses so Putin will look good while avoiding the real problems. It's a short term win for him but a long term loss. Massive amounts of foreign investment is already fleeing the country.


Also here is a US vs Russia military comparison if your interested.


Based upon that russia can win a short limited ground war, but a protracted war would see them ground down by air and sea assets. Same as ww2 germany.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:06 PM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


i59.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-15 01:08:04 PM  

MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.


Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.
 
2014-04-15 01:08:38 PM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


A10s w/o good air support and C4ISR will be lunch meat and toast for Russian AAAs and SAMs. Fighting the Russian Army is not exactly like fighting the Taliban or AQ in the desert armed with only AK47s and RPGs and non existent C4ISR of any kind.

If you want to commit the A10s into the conflict you better commit a significant portion of the USAF and USN for it to be effective in what it does.
 
2014-04-15 01:08:38 PM  

Truther: Pincy: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.

I am a conservative and I think Putin is a dick.

I do have a boner though. Your mom is graciously taking care of it right now...


I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it
 
2014-04-15 01:09:59 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


So I assume you are volunteering for the Ukrainian Self-defense force and just bought your ticket.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:35 PM  
Don't worry folks, Obama has this covered. He is going to set up a twitter account in the Ukraine to make fun of the Russkies. That will show them.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:53 PM  
Meh
 
2014-04-15 01:11:12 PM  

Tigger: dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.

Posted before I saw the ribbons.


In all fairness, though, I've see pictures where they didn't have any ribbons.  Whether it was because of the angle of the photo, or they actually didn't have any insignia, I can't tell.
 
2014-04-15 01:11:44 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.


This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?

The DoD budget is under 700 billion a year, 15% goes to R&D. Trillions? )

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?
 
2014-04-15 01:13:42 PM  

TheYeti: Russian forces spotted in Eastern Ukraine.

I've only seen that one source, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess.


Damn, that's over 100 KM inside the Ukrainian border - hope that grain of salt is needed.
 
2014-04-15 01:14:21 PM  

dittybopper: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

I've been thinking about that.

Technically the insignia doesn't have to be a Russian flag.  It could be just about anything, really.  Take a look at this photo:

[www.blogcdn.com image 850x565]

They all appear to have a red and yellow ribbon on their uniforms.  That would be enough to trigger the "having a fixed distinctive sign recognisable at a distance" requirement.


It isn't that simple, for them to be recognized as legal combatants in a state of open war, Russia would have to acknowledge that their actions were at its behest.... that seems unlikely. If Russia cuts them loose and says they were acting on their own, then they are not protected by the Geneva conventions, but would be subject to whatever the local laws are regarding their actions.
 
2014-04-15 01:14:22 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


Hmm... $7.2 million refund, with 4% interest compounded annually. That's $18.8 trillion US. Not a bad deal...

Oh, and they'll take the Sarah Palin?!?

Sold!
 
2014-04-15 01:15:07 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.

Posted before I saw the ribbons.

In all fairness, though, I've see pictures where they didn't have any ribbons.  Whether it was because of the angle of the photo, or they actually didn't have any insignia, I can't tell.


Who knows. The answer to the hypothetical 'what can you do with ununiformed combatants' is still 'shoot the farkers as spies.

Of course this is what Putin wants to happen.
 
2014-04-15 01:20:44 PM  

dittybopper: Part of the problem is that the government wanted to knock back his cattle herd from 1,000 to 150.

Imagine if the government said to you "Hey, you can't work 40 hours a week anymore, you can only work 6 hours a week. At the same hourly rate.  With no compensation".

That's what started the whole thing.

/He should have payed the fees *AND* continued to graze as before.


Yes, had he done that he might actually have a leg to stand on. Especially since the fees are $1.35 per cow per month.

Nevertheless, doesn't the owner of a piece of property have a right to determine how it's used? If you owned land and had a deal with your neighbor to let him graze his cattle, don't you have the right to tell him how many cattle he can graze?
 
2014-04-15 01:20:54 PM  

Pincy: Truther: Pincy: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.

I am a conservative and I think Putin is a dick.

I do have a boner though. Your mom is graciously taking care of it right now...

I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it


I like the way your mom/dad tickles my...

Anyways, good on you. I hope they were good dads to you.

/do you get a special Lib Ribbon for that btw?
 
2014-04-15 01:21:13 PM  
This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?
 
2014-04-15 01:21:29 PM  

MyRandomName: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?

The DoD budget is under 700 billion a year, 15% goes to R&D. Trillions? )

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?


Its not the pay, housing, and healthcare part that the Democrats want to cut you moran.
 
2014-04-15 01:21:34 PM  

LazyMedia: It's practically useless unless you have air superiority where it's operating, though.


That's always been true of close air support craft. Helicopters suffer from the same limitations.
 
2014-04-15 01:23:52 PM  

spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.


It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.
 
2014-04-15 01:24:31 PM  

Pincy: I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it


A dad gave birth? Now that is bigger news than a possible Russian invasion!
 
2014-04-15 01:27:24 PM  
Wonder how many of those "protesters" have Russian military IDs.
 
2014-04-15 01:32:40 PM  
It isn't serious until the stock markets crash.
That would be the Russian sanctions taking effect.
The west seems to have no idea how their sanctions could backfire.
Russian Bears...
 
2014-04-15 01:33:49 PM  
Holy shiat

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?

New utterly moronic talking point spotted in the wild.

Tranq it and tag it.
 
2014-04-15 01:35:35 PM  

MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.


Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?
 
2014-04-15 01:41:59 PM  

spawn73: chuggernaught: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

Japan attacked European interests in the Pacific prior to attacking Pearl Harbor.

I did not know that. I guess I always just thought of Japans attacks on Singapore and Dutch East India as from when that first occured. But I could see Japan attacking Vichy France's Indochina first.


Yah Japan hit the Dutch and British at the same time as the Americans, roughly. (Hong Kong on the 8 of December 1941 and the Dutch East indeies on the 15th [Thought the Dutch pre-emptively declared war on Japan on the 8th) They attacked French Indochina in September 1940 to stop them helping the Chinese.
 
2014-04-15 01:45:28 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.


Yeah no
Germany had next to nothing in the far east: the Samoan Islands, maybe an 8th of New Guinea and a few lesser islands.

The Japanese Empire pretty much tried to take Korea and make China its biatch from the start of the Meiji Era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_Treaty_of_1876
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_War_%281894-1895%29

They expanded there ambitions to the French and Dutch areas after America and some Europeans started placing embargoes on them for starting the second Sino-Japanese War
 
2014-04-15 01:47:10 PM  
I can't help but see Putin a bit like Zapp:

img.pandawhale.com

He's confident, arrogant, and not wholly in the real world. And dangerous.

He's got short term gains in Ukraine. He's got Crimea, he's trying for some of the eastern regions. He's waging a huge propaganda war in Ukraine and Russia.

The problem is he's got a declining state, a weakening economy, and few international partners left. It's obvious there is great civil unrest in Russia stewing just below the surface. His military is nearly half a century out of date. The southern border of Russia passes through some of the most unstable regions of the world and he's diverting his attention away from them, relying on buffer states to hold. I don't envy the situation he has, and yet he's spreading Russia thinner.

Russia is not in danger of imminent collapse, but it keeps moving closer. It's gotten so bad that now the Russian government is trying to make Gorbachev look bad, which explains the whole context of the clip on the Daily Show. If you haven't seen that clip, it is a bit scary. Russia is trying to paint Gorbachev as a criminal and make a case that the whole collapse of the Soviet Union was not legitimate and that the Eastern Bloc is rightfully still under control of Moscow.

I don't envy the position of those making decisions. I think Putin is crazier than he first appears and that current international actions are too timid, but it's hard turning the ship of state around to take action. Too many actions we want to take are limited by internal squabbles and the realities of collateral damage.

We certainly can't view this in isolation. There have been decades of bad decisions, disregard, and deception leading to this point, and the answer is not simple or straightforward.

/I'm going to stop now, I'm depressing myself.
 
2014-04-15 01:51:52 PM  

mark625: MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.

Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?


I thought it would have stopped after my single post. but.....
Insofar as the hot chicks, I was thinking Chelsea Clinton, would that work?
She so accomplished and could save the Ukraine just her parents.
Just look at those choppers, send her in to straighten things out.

maaadddog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-15 01:52:38 PM  

Carousel Beast: Absolutely, Mister Chamberlain.

/Just being snarky, not serious


I know, but speaking as a defense contractor and a former military officer, I still find the sabre-rattling to be very, very unnerving. I see no gain to the US to get involved, and a world of hurt to be had.
 
2014-04-15 01:54:19 PM  

svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.

*News flash* The draft would draw from the ranks of people who have registered for selective service. Currently only 18 year old MALES are required to register. Obama needs to end the descrimination against men.


It takes an act of congress to decide that. You know the ones that had the hissyfit about Women in  combat.
 
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