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(CTV News)   Ukrainian tanks on the move as "pro-Russian" gunmen dig in. The fecal matter has hit the whirling blades of doom, everyone   (ctvnews.ca) divider line 276
    More: Followup, Ukrainian, Russians, Oleksandr Turchynov, East Ukraine, Ukrainian tanks, Government of Ukraine, Kyiv, Russian flag  
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4637 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 10:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



276 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-15 10:31:28 AM  
Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.
 
2014-04-15 10:33:03 AM  
I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

www.ctvnews.ca
 
2014-04-15 10:33:26 AM  
img.fark.net
 
m00
2014-04-15 10:36:08 AM  
This is how WWII started.
 
2014-04-15 10:36:20 AM  
Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.
 
2014-04-15 10:36:27 AM  
"We took over Crimea without starting World War 3!"

"Well, try harder this time."
 
2014-04-15 10:37:12 AM  

m00: This is how WWII started.


No, no it isn't.
 
2014-04-15 10:37:15 AM  
And Russia will go in in 3...2...1...
 
2014-04-15 10:37:18 AM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


Ugly?
 
2014-04-15 10:38:35 AM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


...or, more likely, a Russian soldier in a uniform without national insignia.
 
2014-04-15 10:38:46 AM  

m00: This is how WWII started.


What, a nation gobbling up other nations while Europe said, "Oh, that's bad.  Don't you dare do that to another one!"?
 
2014-04-15 10:39:07 AM  
It's not so bad, yet.

The moment the first bullet is fired on either side though:

Head for the fallout shelters

 
2014-04-15 10:40:15 AM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


I would think that this was photobombed by the guy on the left.
 
2014-04-15 10:40:24 AM  
Other reports say 11 dead.  There are no winners in this fight.   Only who gets the honor of stealing more money from the Ukrainian economy.
 
2014-04-15 10:41:54 AM  

AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.


You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2014-04-15 10:42:26 AM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


Nah, he's just part of the "threatened minority" that Putin wants to protect.
 
2014-04-15 10:42:43 AM  

farker99: Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]

I would think that this was photobombed by the guy on the left.


That's what I thought too.
 
2014-04-15 10:43:15 AM  
This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria
 
2014-04-15 10:43:21 AM  

jshine: You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.


No, that's just a particular point when it wasn't over.
 
2014-04-15 10:43:52 AM  
WhatFredThompsonwouldsay.jpg
 
2014-04-15 10:45:47 AM  
Stay safe, Ukrainian farkers.  This could get really shiatty.
 
Skr
2014-04-15 10:46:30 AM  
Well if they didn't move the tanks, they would have  eventually been confiscated by the 'rebel' factions anyways.
 
2014-04-15 10:46:31 AM  

farker99: It's not so bad, yet.

The moment the first bullet is fired on either side though:

Head for the fallout shelters


They'be been exchanging fire for some time.

You don't think the Russian thugs are taking control of Ukrainian government buildings with their good looks and charm, do you?

Ukraine is a shining example of "every revolution carries with it.the seeds of its own destruction". Putin will take them the same way they ousted their own authoritarian leader.

Which is the only way he can get what he wants without this escalating all the way.
 
2014-04-15 10:46:43 AM  

incendi: jshine: You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

No, that's just a particular point when it wasn't over.



Was that before or after Hitler built the Sudetenland annex to his Lebensraum so he could retake his Kampfy Chair?

/ got nothing
 
2014-04-15 10:47:00 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


Yeah us dirty libs just love it when semi fascist oligarchs annex sovereign territory.  We farking live for that.
 
2014-04-15 10:47:01 AM  

AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.


They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.
 
2014-04-15 10:47:48 AM  

lindalouwho: farker99: Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]

I would think that this was photobombed by the guy on the left.

That's what I thought too.


I couldn't get past the biatchin' boots on the guy in back.  And is the dude in front rocking a forearm guard with integrated throwing knife?  Is BUDK sponsoring those guys?
 
2014-04-15 10:48:39 AM  

jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.


The Germans?

<cue>
 
2014-04-15 10:48:59 AM  

danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.


For real.  Do those guys look more like citizens to you, or Spetsnaz guys?
 
2014-04-15 10:49:06 AM  

jshine: Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]

...or, more likely, a Russian soldier in a uniform without national insignia.


This.
 
2014-04-15 10:50:16 AM  
www.bookwormroom.com
 
2014-04-15 10:50:24 AM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


Recently-developed Russian digital camouflage first issued to Russian special forces and Russian Internal troops, just now slowly making its way into the hands of regular Russian soldiers?  Of course he's a Ukrainian protestor! I'll bet these totally not-Russian gunmen will get next-generation tanks too!
 
2014-04-15 10:50:29 AM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


I don't think they're mothballed, are they? They'd been getting use in Afghanistan/Iraq
 
2014-04-15 10:52:26 AM  

danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.


Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.
 
2014-04-15 10:54:33 AM  

cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]


I hope every one of those cocksuckers that showed up to be photographed pointing their gun at government agents executing their official duties is identified and arrested.
 
2014-04-15 10:55:36 AM  

Gunny Highway: danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.

Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.


They've gone into hiding because they don't want to be shot.
 
2014-04-15 10:56:13 AM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?
 
2014-04-15 10:56:27 AM  

Egoy3k: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

Yeah us dirty libs just love it when semi fascist oligarchs annex sovereign territory.  We farking live for that.


I got the feeling Kaiser was the one with the boner
 
2014-04-15 10:56:42 AM  

dittybopper: Gunny Highway: danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.

Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.

They've gone into hiding because they don't want to be shot.


That sucks but I suppose it is expected.
 
2014-04-15 10:58:00 AM  
Earlier today, Vladimir Putin was heard to mutter: "Exxxcelent!"
 
2014-04-15 10:58:30 AM  

incendi: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I hope every one of those cocksuckers that showed up to be photographed pointing their gun at government agents executing their official duties is identified and arrested.


www.seacoastnh.com

What, you mean like this guy?
 
2014-04-15 10:59:45 AM  
www.ctvnews.ca

All I know is that if rebels were trying to overthrow the legally elected government in MY city those tires would be covered in gasoline and on fire by now.
 
2014-04-15 10:59:54 AM  
One of my favorite fanfiction authors is Ukrainian. Hope they don't die.
 
2014-04-15 11:00:00 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


You know I love you but wow. This is bizarre even for you.
 
2014-04-15 11:00:45 AM  
Come on folks it is communists vs fascists.
Pull up a chair and make some popcorn.
 
2014-04-15 11:01:29 AM  
img.fark.net
We'll just send them Chuck.
 
2014-04-15 11:01:41 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


The guy that wanted to put the A-10s into service looks smart compared to you.

I wonder who of you two would come closest to placing Ukraine on a map.
 
2014-04-15 11:02:15 AM  

Egoy3k: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

Yeah us dirty libs just love it when semi fascist oligarchs annex sovereign territory.  We farking live for that.


Well, admitting it is the first step.  Congratulations.
 
2014-04-15 11:02:40 AM  

SpectroBoy: [www.ctvnews.ca image 620x349]

All I know is that if rebels were trying to overthrow the legally elected government in MY city those tires would be covered in gasoline and on fire by now.


I bet.
 
2014-04-15 11:02:43 AM  
So is British Petroleum going to end up with the Crimean and the Ukrainian oil contracts?

I just would like to know which oil giant our volunteers will be fighting and dying for this time.

www.halliburtonwatch.org

2.bp.blogspot.com

/MG Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor. Strangely enough, he is NOT buried in Arlington National Cemetery. Huh.
/in case you've forgotten, the Iraqi Oil Ministry building was heavily guarded while looting went on all around
 
2014-04-15 11:03:02 AM  
But sanctions!
 
2014-04-15 11:03:50 AM  

stevarooni: m00: This is how WWII started.

What, a nation gobbling up other nations while Europe said, "Oh, that's bad.  Don't you dare do that to another one!"?


Last I checked both Ukraine and Russia is Europe.

Did you mean the EU? Who of the two belligerents where it that tore of the brokered peace treaty?

And what does USA have to offer? Mouthbreathers, the liar Powell?
 
2014-04-15 11:05:01 AM  

spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.

Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?



Indeed.  This really isn't our concern -- at least not until Putin is rolling his panzer divisions into Western Europe and the EU finally admits that they've got a problem.  I wouldn't commit the US to this unless there's a pretty broad consensus in the EU/UN that WWIII has already begun.
 
2014-04-15 11:05:14 AM  

Gunny Highway: SpectroBoy: [www.ctvnews.ca image 620x349]

All I know is that if rebels were trying to overthrow the legally elected government in MY city those tires would be covered in gasoline and on fire by now.

I bet.


Too over the top?

I can never tell.
 
2014-04-15 11:05:48 AM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


Better yet:  A good time to order up 200 of 'em.

/Hagerstonian
 
2014-04-15 11:06:18 AM  
Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?
 
2014-04-15 11:07:25 AM  

cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]


I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.
 
2014-04-15 11:08:03 AM  
Well, it's pretty obvious Putin is behind this (possibly not, but pretty damn unlikely.)  The big question is-- is Ol' Pooty doing this just to fark with everybody, (something he LOVES doing) or is he planning to actually roll in the Russian army to take over the eastern Ukraine "To protect the ethnic Russians" once the Ukrainian government takes action to clear out the protesters/insurgents?

If he takes over east Ukraine, is anybody going to do anything other than biatch about it?
 
2014-04-15 11:08:23 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


Your fertile imagination in the other hand, definitely worth a nuclear war.
 
2014-04-15 11:08:54 AM  
Its about damn time...  Ukraine needs to assert its authority and regain control, but they have russia just hopeing for an excuse to invade under the lie of "protecting Russian speakers from Ukrainian violence".  And that really is all it is, A big fat bold lie.

fark you Putin.
 
2014-04-15 11:09:56 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight."
-- Sun Tzu
 
2014-04-15 11:11:18 AM  

jshine: Indeed.  This really isn't our concern -- at least not until Putin is rolling his panzer divisions into Western Europe and the EU finally admits that they've got a problem.  I wouldn't commit the US to this unless there's a pretty broad consensus in the EU/UN that WWIII has already begun.


Interesting terminology for Russian tanks...
 
2014-04-15 11:12:28 AM  

dukeblue219: jshine: Indeed.  This really isn't our concern -- at least not until Putin is rolling his panzer divisions into Western Europe and the EU finally admits that they've got a problem.  I wouldn't commit the US to this unless there's a pretty broad consensus in the EU/UN that WWIII has already begun.

Interesting terminology for Russian tanks...


Indeed.
 
2014-04-15 11:12:31 AM  
Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.

Sure there are, you can always find those anywhere in Ukraine.  Recent polls show that at most about 18-20% of Ukrainians in the east support separation from Ukraine
 
2014-04-15 11:13:38 AM  

SpectroBoy: Gunny Highway: SpectroBoy: [www.ctvnews.ca image 620x349]

All I know is that if rebels were trying to overthrow the legally elected government in MY city those tires would be covered in gasoline and on fire by now.

I bet.

Too over the top?

I can never tell.


You werent serious haha.

I can never tell.
 
2014-04-15 11:14:53 AM  

danzak: Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.

Sure there are, you can always find those anywhere in Ukraine.  Recent polls show that at most about 18-20% of Ukrainians in the east support separation from Ukraine


I know they are there, I was wondering what they are doing at the moment.
 
2014-04-15 11:15:26 AM  
"People who claimed the old Ukrainian government clearing out protesters was criminal" and "people urging the new Ukrainian government to stomp em flat" how closely does the Venn diagram resemble a circle?
 
2014-04-15 11:17:26 AM  
 
2014-04-15 11:20:38 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


Pity that interventionist poster boy Bush got us into deep shiat without an exit strategy...twice.

Now reasonable people are, quite understandably, reluctant to intervene again, even when it's appropriate.

Credibility is an easy thing to squander, and a hard thing to restore.
 
2014-04-15 11:22:11 AM  
No hostages? Bomb the building... you want to send a strong, clear message that you can replace buildings far more easily than they can replace insurgents. Bill their families for the cleanup.
 
2014-04-15 11:22:22 AM  
I know they are there, I was wondering what they are doing at the moment.

From what I've read, the Russian special forces are clearing the buildings, setting up the road blocks and seizing weapons caches.  The Ukrainians are then grouped in with them to occupy those buildings, man the road blocks etc

like these guys:

www.kyivpost.com
 
2014-04-15 11:24:16 AM  

wraithmare: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

The Germans?

<cue>


<sigh> do I have to do everything around here?

Forget it, he's rolling.
 
2014-04-15 11:24:39 AM  
I keep getting the impression that when all this is done there will not be a single house standing in Eastern Ukraine.   Those poor stupid bastards in the soon to be barren wasteland actually believed the Russian propaganda and will pay dearly for it along with all the innocent people in the middle.
 
2014-04-15 11:24:51 AM  

Ned Stark: "People who claimed the old Ukrainian government clearing out protesters was criminal" and "people urging the new Ukrainian government to stomp em flat" how closely does the Venn diagram resemble a circle?


These are vastly different.


One one hand you had peaceful protestors who overthrew their own government, and afterwards they picked up trash, and guarded the captured properties.   They didn't break a single window.  These are what you call good guys.


On the other hand you have violent protestors who captured government buildings (not overthrown the government) and vandalized and generally break things and threaten and intimidate anyone who gets in their way.  Many of these same people are not even Ukrainians but are instead Russian troops with orders to stir dissent.  These are what you call bad guys.


so yes, stomp on the bad guys...
 
2014-04-15 11:25:22 AM  
AP:  Heavy gunfire heard at airport in Eastern Ukraine after troops mave against pro-Russia militia.
 
2014-04-15 11:25:32 AM  
Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft


Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours


/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.
 
2014-04-15 11:25:34 AM  

jshine: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.

Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?


Indeed.  This really isn't our concern -- at least not until Putin is rolling his panzer divisions into Western Europe and the EU finally admits that they've got a problem.  I wouldn't commit the US to this unless there's a pretty broad consensus in the EU/UN that WWIII has already begun.


WW1 and WWII was basicly Europe, and I am sure the EU will graciously let USA pick sides once again should that wet dream come to pass.

What USA could also is to offer real ecomic and immidiate help, along with their partners in the EU.

And tell McCain to fark off with his rethoric about arming, someone. Whilst his backers in the weapons lobby probably loves him for it, it's a moronic idea given that everyone has lots of weapons.
 
2014-04-15 11:26:02 AM  

danzak: I know they are there, I was wondering what they are doing at the moment.

From what I've read, the Russian special forces are clearing the buildings, setting up the road blocks and seizing weapons caches.  The Ukrainians are then grouped in with them to occupy those buildings, man the road blocks etc

like these guys:

[www.kyivpost.com image 460x308]


Thanks.
 
2014-04-15 11:31:36 AM  

spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe


... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...
 
2014-04-15 11:32:12 AM  

proton: AP:  Heavy gunfire heard at airport in Eastern Ukraine after troops mave against pro-Russia militia.


Translated:

http://hromadske.tv/society/534d4c3259d3f/
 
2014-04-15 11:33:03 AM  

spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?


Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.
 
2014-04-15 11:34:53 AM  

jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.


I though it started when Lee Harvey Oswald shot the lead singer of Franz Ferdinand.
 
2014-04-15 11:36:07 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 11:37:07 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.
 
2014-04-15 11:38:38 AM  
I know if I were a global power, I'd definitely let a ragtag bunch of highly visible ethnic gunmen represent my nation on the world stage, leading to a war that suits the interests of outsiders.
 
2014-04-15 11:38:52 AM  

Gunny Highway: danzak: I know they are there, I was wondering what they are doing at the moment.

From what I've read, the Russian special forces are clearing the buildings, setting up the road blocks and seizing weapons caches.  The Ukrainians are then grouped in with them to occupy those buildings, man the road blocks etc

like these guys:

[www.kyivpost.com image 460x308]

Thanks


They are also mixed in with the Russian "tourist" protesters, some of whom were seen in Crimea etc. There are reports that "tourist protesters" are being brought in and told to pose as locals but have no idea who the mayor of the city is or any other basic information.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/04/14/you-tube- sh atters-russian-lies-about-troops-in-ukraine/2/
 
2014-04-15 11:39:19 AM  
Putin laughs and spreads his wings... Oh Lord yeah
 
2014-04-15 11:40:27 AM  
I'm just happy to have been born in the country that is always right about everything.
 
2014-04-15 11:40:50 AM  

m00: This is how WWII started.


I thought that was when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:16 AM  

jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.


I thought it was when the Maine was bombed in the Gulf of Tonka or something.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:50 AM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
static4.businessinsider.com
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.
 
2014-04-15 11:41:58 AM  
Ethnic cleansing requires a parameter.

I'm wondering if it will be religion, ancestry, or maybe personal wealth.
 
2014-04-15 11:42:11 AM  

dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...


That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.
 
2014-04-15 11:43:01 AM  

Poot beer: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

I thought it was when the Maine was bombed in the Gulf of Tonka or something.


Hertz' hostile takeover of Alamo?  Remember?
 
2014-04-15 11:43:08 AM  
i prefer to say "The excrement has hit the airscrew".
 
2014-04-15 11:43:12 AM  

jshine: Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]

...or, more likely, a Russian soldier in a uniform without national insignia.


We should arrest them and ship them off to Gitmo.  Is Putin still disavowing them as Russian soldiers?

"Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.
 
2014-04-15 11:43:50 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 11:44:42 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: MG Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor.


Means he had big brass balls.  Doesn't mean he was 100% *RIGHT*.  You know who else had medals of honor?

Vice Presidential candidate who was barely there James Stockdale.

Racist/Fascist Charles Lindbergh.

Just because you happen to be brave, doesn't make you infallible, or right about all things.
 
2014-04-15 11:44:44 AM  

MooseBayou: Hertz' hostile takeover of Alamo?  Remember?


No, it was Enterprise Rent-a-Car's assault on Ft. Sumter. Get your facts straight!
 
2014-04-15 11:44:56 AM  

jshine: dukeblue219: jshine: Indeed.  This really isn't our concern -- at least not until Putin is rolling his panzer divisions into Western Europe and the EU finally admits that they've got a problem.  I wouldn't commit the US to this unless there's a pretty broad consensus in the EU/UN that WWIII has already begun.

Interesting terminology for Russian tanks...

Indeed.


Ukraine:  while the derp-gun on the KV-1S and the KV-2 is intimidating, try to get around the sides for a flank or rear shot while they are reloading.  Also, they are both vulnerable to artillery.

/wait, this isn't World of Tanks?
 
2014-04-15 11:45:39 AM  

wraithmare: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

The Germans?

<cue>


Yes, Zee Germans.

Make sure you don't blow your own bollocks off.

/5 minutes Turkish
 
2014-04-15 11:45:45 AM  

MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.


It is about the contract between lessor and lessee. Its not the turtle.
Lessor was not performing as per BLM agreement so the lessee got upset and didn't pay the BLM fees and it took many years to reach this boiling point.
Someone wants to use the land for something other than grazing.
 
2014-04-15 11:46:45 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


aren't you supposed to be salivating over Putin?
 
2014-04-15 11:49:17 AM  

youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.


yeah you're a fool now to give up nuclear weapons
 
2014-04-15 11:49:28 AM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


Those are awesome.  Less of a plane, more of a Gatling gun with wings.
 
2014-04-15 11:49:40 AM  

youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?


What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?
 
2014-04-15 11:50:47 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


Even if Russia takes the Ukraine, they can't expand a whole lot further without hitting new NATO nations like Poland. If anything, Putin is acting out of fear of the EU and NATO encroaching past the old Eastern Block and into the old Soviet Union, which is why he made his move when he did. The revolution in the Ukraine forced his hand, and he had to act to keep the Ukraine from slipping over to the West. If anything, his recent actions show how weak Russia has become, barely able to exert power over their own region without resorting to force.

Putin has been swinging his dick around a lot lately, but it really says more about his own insecurities than it does our weakness.
 
2014-04-15 11:51:06 AM  

youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.


Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway.

Economic aid, monitor that election, see of you can help Germany supply them with enough gas. You know, non-kneejerk reactions that'll blow up in your face?
 
2014-04-15 11:52:16 AM  

spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.


Japan attacked European interests in the Pacific prior to attacking Pearl Harbor.
 
2014-04-15 11:54:51 AM  

sufferpuppet: MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.

Those are awesome.  Less of a plane, more of a Gatling gun with wings.


The only problem with them is the fact that they basically require one hundred percent air superiority to be usable
 
2014-04-15 11:55:30 AM  

cheyanne9: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

It is about the contract between lessor and lessee. Its not the turtle.
Lessor was not performing as per BLM agreement so the lessee got upset and didn't pay the BLM fees and it took many years to reach this boiling point.
Someone wants to use the land for something other than grazing.


Part of the problem is that the government wanted to knock back his cattle herd from 1,000 to 150.

Imagine if the government said to you "Hey, you can't work 40 hours a week anymore, you can only work 6 hours a week. At the same hourly rate.  With no compensation".

That's what started the whole thing.

/He should have payed the fees *AND* continued to graze as before.
 
2014-04-15 11:55:32 AM  

AdamK: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

yeah you're a fool now to give up nuclear weapons


Iraq gave up nuclear program, invaded by west.
Libya gave up nuclear program, overthrown by west.
Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, abandoned by west presently being partitioned by east.

Errr... I guess South Africa turned out OK?

/hope Iran is taking notes
 
2014-04-15 11:55:51 AM  
m8.i.pbase.com
 
2014-04-15 11:59:39 AM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


That plane is a sublime work of art.
 
2014-04-15 12:00:06 PM  
stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2014-04-15 12:02:01 PM  
It is my opinion that while Russians use the separatists for all they can, they will not invade as long as only firearms-armed separatists will die. There is no indication in Russian news, those I have access to, that they are ramping up the propaganda for actual invasion.

It is also my opinion that the armed guys there are either from Crimea (Aksyonov's thugs? Very possibly. Aksyonov is a bully and an idiot, he just could do something so monumentally stupid) or hireling of local oligarchs who are aligned with Russia (Rinat Akhmetov is one of those, is seems his money support separatists.)

We know that there were groups of hirelings in Crimea, including Serbians, of course Russians of all kinds, and so on. All of them traveled there in hopes of actual fighting, which they didn't get. Right now, they are not needed in Crimea; so they are probably bored and seek somebody who will pay them to do what they like best: cause troubles. There is no lack of those willing to pay...

I don't believe any single one of them is actually Russian soldier of spetsnaz; there is no point in using such people when there are plenty of "blackwater" type hirelings available, with perfect deniability, for whom not a single tear will be spent by anyone.
 
2014-04-15 12:02:29 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria




www.lobshots.com
 
2014-04-15 12:04:14 PM  
Russian forces spotted in Eastern Ukraine.

I've only seen that one source, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess.
 
2014-04-15 12:05:07 PM  
Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?
 
2014-04-15 12:06:50 PM  

cheyanne9: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

It is about the contract between lessor and lessee. Its not the turtle.
Lessor was not performing as per BLM agreement so the lessee got upset and didn't pay the BLM fees and it took many years to reach this boiling point.
Someone wants to use the land for something other than grazing.


What? There is no contract per say. Its rather simple. BLM manages the land and attempts to keep it fertile. If you want your animals to graze on BLM managed land you pay a fee.
Guy was grazing his animals on BLM land, and stated that BLM wasn't properly managing his animals for him (They aren't supposed to manage YOUR animals for you, that's your job), and insist upon grazing for free.
Yeah, I kinda get the locals are upset that they want to put up windfarms on the land or whatever.
Why do these people think that property rights are sacrosanct, except when its federal property.
 
2014-04-15 12:07:22 PM  

MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.


How do you get this confused about the thread you're posting in?
 
2014-04-15 12:09:22 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.


Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.
 
2014-04-15 12:11:36 PM  

fark'emfeed'emfish: I know if I were a global power, I'd definitely let a ragtag bunch of highly visible ethnic gunmen represent my nation on the world stage, leading to a war that suits the interests of outsiders.


Umm, that's exactly what happened in Crimea  though, otherwise I might agree with you.
 
2014-04-15 12:15:01 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


Joke's on them. We already took the gold, oil, and useful timber. All that's left is the cold and the misery.
 
2014-04-15 12:16:13 PM  

chuggernaught: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

Japan attacked European interests in the Pacific prior to attacking Pearl Harbor.


I did not know that. I guess I always just thought of Japans attacks on Singapore and Dutch East India as from when that first occured. But I could see Japan attacking Vichy France's Indochina first.
 
2014-04-15 12:17:52 PM  

youmightberight: Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.


We would respond, but we wouldn't expect that Brazil or China would feel obligated to help us. Since, y'know, they have no interests in Alaska.

The ramifications of an open armed conflict between the two largest, most powerful military entities in the history of the world kind of need to be justified by the greater ramifications of not having the conflict.
 
2014-04-15 12:18:31 PM  

cheyanne9: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

It is about the contract between lessor and lessee. Its not the turtle.
Lessor was not performing as per BLM agreement so the lessee got upset and didn't pay the BLM fees and it took many years to reach this boiling point.
Someone wants to use the land for something other than grazing.


At least keep your idiocy confined to the proper thread.
 
2014-04-15 12:21:04 PM  

MooseBayou: Poot beer: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

I thought it was when the Maine was bombed in the Gulf of Tonka or something.

Hertz' hostile takeover of Alamo?  Remember?


And that's why we went to war against the Avis Powers.
 
2014-04-15 12:21:38 PM  

dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...


There's the US, and then there's everywhere else - half and half.  Europe is a small part of that everywhere-else bit - it's basicly Europe, some oil refineries on some sand somewhere, and a place with lots of manufacturing plants.  At this point Europe is like our tiny, old, senile grandparent whom we still love even when he's babbling inanely - thank G-d for nursing homes, amirite?  Yeah, so it wasn't really a "World War" until we joined it.  It was basicly Europe or whatever.
 
2014-04-15 12:21:50 PM  
Russia is a dieing country. Check out their birth rates and economic conditions.

This is a distraction for the masses so Putin will look good while avoiding the real problems. It's a short term win for him but a long term loss. Massive amounts of foreign investment is already fleeing the country.


Also here is a US vs Russia military comparison if your interested.
 
2014-04-15 12:21:54 PM  

Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?


I've been thinking about that.

Technically the insignia doesn't have to be a Russian flag.  It could be just about anything, really.  Take a look at this photo:

www.blogcdn.com

They all appear to have a red and yellow ribbon on their uniforms.  That would be enough to trigger the "having a fixed distinctive sign recognisable at a distance" requirement.
 
2014-04-15 12:22:47 PM  

DrBenway: MooseBayou: Poot beer: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

I thought it was when the Maine was bombed in the Gulf of Tonka or something.

Hertz' hostile takeover of Alamo?  Remember?

And that's why we went to war against the Avis Powers.


Because they assassinated the Archie Duke Bunker?
 
2014-04-15 12:24:23 PM  

bobothemagnificent: [img.fark.net image 750x574]
We'll just send them Chuck.


I think he's a bit worn out.

ll-media.tmz.com
 
2014-04-15 12:25:48 PM  
spawn73:
Japan attacked European interests in the Pacific prior to attacking Pearl Harbor.

I did not know that. I guess I always just thought of Japans attacks on Singapore and Dutch East India as from when that first occured. But I could see Japan attacking Vichy France's Indochina first.


They sort of did. Japan did launch attacks on French and Dutch colonies, but only after both countries had become puppets of ally Germany.

France was actually fighting a war in Vietnam against the Vietnamese and the Chinese. China was a mess from 1930-1950.
 
2014-04-15 12:26:17 PM  
I do give Russia props for the logistics of their infiltrators' uniforms. They can't just have their army strip off their insignia and stroll in. There's gotta be someone in charge of mishmashing all the different clothing and tactical outfitting so it appears that it is a people's uprising, and not rank-and-file soldiers taking over the facilities.
 
2014-04-15 12:29:05 PM  

Grahor: It is my opinion that while Russians use the separatists for all they can, they will not invade as long as only firearms-armed separatists will die. There is no indication in Russian news, those I have access to, that they are ramping up the propaganda for actual invasion.

It is also my opinion that the armed guys there are either from Crimea (Aksyonov's thugs? Very possibly. Aksyonov is a bully and an idiot, he just could do something so monumentally stupid) or hireling of local oligarchs who are aligned with Russia (Rinat Akhmetov is one of those, is seems his money support separatists.)

We know that there were groups of hirelings in Crimea, including Serbians, of course Russians of all kinds, and so on. All of them traveled there in hopes of actual fighting, which they didn't get. Right now, they are not needed in Crimea; so they are probably bored and seek somebody who will pay them to do what they like best: cause troubles. There is no lack of those willing to pay...

I don't believe any single one of them is actually Russian soldier of spetsnaz; there is no point in using such people when there are plenty of "blackwater" type hirelings available, with perfect deniability, for whom not a single tear will be spent by anyone.


Yeah, wake me up when the tanks roll through Kharkov.  Pootie was pi*ssed when his Ukrainian puppet was forced to cut and run and he's just `shaping' the compliance of the `new' gov. in Kiev without Dioxin, this time .  I'd be curry combing for speculations on the energy market that look more like sure things from the time Yanukovych  went wheels down in Moscow.  It's not like Ukraine doesn't owe $7 billion, they can't pay, for Russian gas already sucked up (maybe pootie thinks he can get EU/IMF/US to settle that debt - or else...).
Anyway, it's all kabuki theater unless some tyro farks up - Pootie's got the whole `hydraulic despot' gig going for him (ala Frank Herbert -oil/gas=spice).  When the Germans commit to new reactors - then the shiat's getting serious:

sites.uci.edu
 
2014-04-15 12:32:58 PM  
No need for bloodshed.  Diplomacy and appeasement is the answer, perhaps a nice pact can be made.
Let's divide Ukraine evenly between Russia and  Poland and avoid this bloodshed!
Let's hold this meeting in a private London residence and the Ukrainians need not have any input in this affair.
 
2014-04-15 12:33:02 PM  
Outlaw country!! WOOOOOO
 
2014-04-15 12:34:41 PM  

Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?


They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.
 
2014-04-15 12:35:56 PM  
Ned Stark:

Iraq gave up nuclear program but still was starting shiat and blocking inspections, repeatedly skirting if not outright violating the terms of the ceasefire and had attempted to assassinate a former president, invaded by west.
Libya gave up nuclear program, overthrown by west after the Arab Spring in several countries encouraged locals to rise up against the leadership.
Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, abandoned by west presently being partitioned by east.

Errr... I guess South Africa turned out OK?

/hope Iran is taking notes


I suspect Iran is looking to NK as a model, not Ukraine.
 
2014-04-15 12:37:15 PM  

svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.


I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.
 
2014-04-15 12:38:06 PM  
Ukrainian tanks on the move as "pro-Russian" gunmen dig in. The fecal matter has hit the whirling blades of doom rotating oscillator, everyone

There...converted to actual military parlance for Subitard, who is clearly nothing but an internet ninja and military wannabe.
 
2014-04-15 12:40:10 PM  

lifeboat:


Awesome!
 
2014-04-15 12:40:26 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


Most Farklibs hate armed conflicts. At least get your strawmen right.
 
2014-04-15 12:40:33 PM  

Pincy: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.


I am a conservative and I think Putin is a dick.

I do have a boner though. Your mom is graciously taking care of it right now...
 
2014-04-15 12:41:12 PM  

wraithmare: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

The Germans?


Oh come on people! Be precise. It was the EAST Germans that bombed Pearl Harbor. Farkin' Commies!
The West Germans were the good guys. They held the line against North Korea.
 
2014-04-15 12:41:53 PM  

dittybopper: TheShavingofOccam123: MG Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor.

Means he had big brass balls.  Doesn't mean he was 100% *RIGHT*.  You know who else had medals of honor?

Vice Presidential candidate who was barely there James Stockdale.

Racist/Fascist Charles Lindbergh.

Just because you happen to be brave, doesn't make you infallible, or right about all things.


You might have a point if that was what made Butler right about things. The Medal of Honor is just a calling card.
 
2014-04-15 12:43:02 PM  

Egoy3k: I'm not sure I'd call this guy a 'protestor' maybe militiaman or rebel or soldier but not really a protestor.

[www.ctvnews.ca image 850x552]


balaclava tsar-photobomba.
 
2014-04-15 12:48:00 PM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria


what? Putin is the hero of the right. They're fawning all over him over at Fox News. he's such a manly man.
 
2014-04-15 12:50:21 PM  

rwhamann: youmightberight: Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

We would respond, but we wouldn't expect that Brazil or China would feel obligated to help us. Since, y'know, they have no interests in Alaska.

The ramifications of an open armed conflict between the two largest, most powerful military entities in the history of the world kind of need to be justified by the greater ramifications of not having the conflict.


Absolutely, Mister Chamberlain.

/Just being snarky, not serious
 
2014-04-15 12:51:07 PM  

grumpfuff: bobothemagnificent: [img.fark.net image 750x574]
We'll just send them Chuck.

I think he's a bit worn out.

[ll-media.tmz.com image 550x570]


Looks like his beard isn't with him. Maybe it's on a plane over there.
 
2014-04-15 12:51:22 PM  

m00: This is how WWII started.


everyone knows WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour.
 
2014-04-15 12:51:50 PM  
When the Russians suddenly withdraw, that's when you need to worry.
 
2014-04-15 12:52:17 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?

Even if Russia takes the Ukraine, they can't expand a whole lot further without hitting new NATO nations like Poland. If anything, Putin is acting out of fear of the EU and NATO encroaching past the old Eastern Block and into the old Soviet Union, which is why he made his move when he did. The revolution in the Ukraine forced his hand, and he had to act to keep the Ukraine from slipping over to the West. If anything, his recent actions show how weak Russia has become, barely able to exert power over their own region without resorting to force.

Putin has been swinging his dick around a lot lately, but it really says more about his own insecurities than it does our weakness.


Let's hope you're right, because it seems hope is the only thing we're going to deploy now that sanctions are off the table.

/hope and change
//our hope that Putin doesn't change the bargain any further
 
2014-04-15 12:55:45 PM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


It's practically useless unless you have air superiority where it's operating, though. It's a Stuka. An F-16 dropping 2,000-pound JDAMs is much more effective against a real military force, and it can defend itself.
 
2014-04-15 12:56:23 PM  

DrBenway: dittybopper: TheShavingofOccam123: MG Smedley Butler won two Medals of Honor.

Means he had big brass balls.  Doesn't mean he was 100% *RIGHT*.  You know who else had medals of honor?

Vice Presidential candidate who was barely there James Stockdale.

Racist/Fascist Charles Lindbergh.

Just because you happen to be brave, doesn't make you infallible, or right about all things.

You might have a point if that was what made Butler right about things. The Medal of Honor is just a calling card.


And Lindbergh was right about a bunch of things aeronautical, but it didn't make him an expert on eugenics.

I'd also point out that Butler died before the US was forced into WWII.  So what would he have thought about that?

Actually, he probably would have thought the US should stay out, until the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, at which point he would have been all for US involvement, if the organizations he was associated with had any pull on him.
 
2014-04-15 12:56:25 PM  

SurelyShirley: wraithmare: jshine: AspectRatio: m00: This is how WWII started.

No, no it isn't.

You're right -- WWII started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

The Germans?

Oh come on people! Be precise. It was the EAST Germans that bombed Pearl Harbor. Farkin' Commies!
The West Germans were the good guys. They held the line against North Korea.


Oh cut it out...that was General Custer and you know it.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:36 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.


A draft won't be reinstituted. Mass conscript armies are a thing of the past. Professional armies are far more effective, which is why most countries are moving in that direction if they haven't already (including Russia).
 
2014-04-15 12:59:35 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


Did they keep the sales slip?  Do they have the inflation-adjusted monies?
 
2014-04-15 01:00:15 PM  

Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.


Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.
 
2014-04-15 01:00:26 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


I'm sure the Ukrainian army would welcome a new volunteer.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:24 PM  

codigo: grumpfuff: bobothemagnificent: [img.fark.net image 750x574]
We'll just send them Chuck.

I think he's a bit worn out.

[ll-media.tmz.com image 550x570]

Looks like his beard isn't with him. Maybe it's on a plane over there.


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-04-15 01:02:40 PM  

This text is now purple: dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?

Joke's on them. We already took the gold, oil, and useful timber. All that's left is the cold and the misery.


But enough about the Palin family.
 
2014-04-15 01:03:08 PM  

IamAwake: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

There's the US, and then there's everywhere else - half and half.  Europe is a small part of that everywhere-else bit - it's basicly Europe, some oil refineries on some sand somewhere, and a place with lots of manufacturing plants.  At this point Europe is like our tiny, old, senile grandparent whom we still love even when he's babbling inanely - thank G-d for nursing homes, amirite?  Yeah, so it wasn't really a "World War" until we joined it.  It was basicly Europe or whatever.


The coldwar is over, so now its time for you to be really polite again. ;)
 
2014-04-15 01:03:16 PM  

stevarooni: dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?

Did they keep the sales slip?  Do they have the inflation-adjusted monies?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_III_(TV_miniseries)

Cheesy, but kind of fun.
 
2014-04-15 01:03:47 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.


Posted before I saw the ribbons.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:17 PM  

Gunny Highway: dittybopper: Gunny Highway: danzak: AntiGravitas: Meh.  Unless Russia moves (which it does not seem like it will) there is no issue.  Just internal squabbles.

They already have.  Those are Russian forces in Ukraine storming and occupying those buildings.  The local "protesters" (mot of whom are also Russians) are then put on the front line of the barricades.

Where have the Ukrainains people who were pushing for a new government gone in all of this?  There have to be some non-'Russian military disguised as protesters' out there.

They've gone into hiding because they don't want to be shot.

That sucks but I suppose it is expected.


Actually 40,000 are training as the new National Guard. I think it would be silly to have pro government protesters counter protest Spetznatz in Russian friendly territory with out the tanks to back them up.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:24 PM  
Another "not Russian special forces" local insurgent.  Wonder if he feels threatened:

fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-04-15 01:04:51 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.


*News flash* The draft would draw from the ranks of people who have registered for selective service. Currently only 18 year old MALES are required to register. Obama needs to end the descrimination against men.
 
2014-04-15 01:05:20 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 01:05:34 PM  

Amish Tech Support: Russia is a dieing country. Check out their birth rates and economic conditions.

This is a distraction for the masses so Putin will look good while avoiding the real problems. It's a short term win for him but a long term loss. Massive amounts of foreign investment is already fleeing the country.


Also here is a US vs Russia military comparison if your interested.


Based upon that russia can win a short limited ground war, but a protracted war would see them ground down by air and sea assets. Same as ww2 germany.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:06 PM  

youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.


i59.tinypic.com
 
2014-04-15 01:08:04 PM  

MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.


Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.
 
2014-04-15 01:08:38 PM  

MooseBayou: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

The ugliest, most intimidating airplane ever built.
[static4.businessinsider.com image 850x637]
Don't make us use this.  You will regret it.


A10s w/o good air support and C4ISR will be lunch meat and toast for Russian AAAs and SAMs. Fighting the Russian Army is not exactly like fighting the Taliban or AQ in the desert armed with only AK47s and RPGs and non existent C4ISR of any kind.

If you want to commit the A10s into the conflict you better commit a significant portion of the USAF and USN for it to be effective in what it does.
 
2014-04-15 01:08:38 PM  

Truther: Pincy: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.

I am a conservative and I think Putin is a dick.

I do have a boner though. Your mom is graciously taking care of it right now...


I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it
 
2014-04-15 01:09:59 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


So I assume you are volunteering for the Ukrainian Self-defense force and just bought your ticket.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:35 PM  
Don't worry folks, Obama has this covered. He is going to set up a twitter account in the Ukraine to make fun of the Russkies. That will show them.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:53 PM  
Meh
 
2014-04-15 01:11:12 PM  

Tigger: dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.

Posted before I saw the ribbons.


In all fairness, though, I've see pictures where they didn't have any ribbons.  Whether it was because of the angle of the photo, or they actually didn't have any insignia, I can't tell.
 
2014-04-15 01:11:44 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.


This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?

The DoD budget is under 700 billion a year, 15% goes to R&D. Trillions? )

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?
 
2014-04-15 01:13:42 PM  

TheYeti: Russian forces spotted in Eastern Ukraine.

I've only seen that one source, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess.


Damn, that's over 100 KM inside the Ukrainian border - hope that grain of salt is needed.
 
2014-04-15 01:14:21 PM  

dittybopper: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

I've been thinking about that.

Technically the insignia doesn't have to be a Russian flag.  It could be just about anything, really.  Take a look at this photo:

[www.blogcdn.com image 850x565]

They all appear to have a red and yellow ribbon on their uniforms.  That would be enough to trigger the "having a fixed distinctive sign recognisable at a distance" requirement.


It isn't that simple, for them to be recognized as legal combatants in a state of open war, Russia would have to acknowledge that their actions were at its behest.... that seems unlikely. If Russia cuts them loose and says they were acting on their own, then they are not protected by the Geneva conventions, but would be subject to whatever the local laws are regarding their actions.
 
2014-04-15 01:14:22 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


Hmm... $7.2 million refund, with 4% interest compounded annually. That's $18.8 trillion US. Not a bad deal...

Oh, and they'll take the Sarah Palin?!?

Sold!
 
2014-04-15 01:15:07 PM  

dittybopper: Tigger: dittybopper: Tigger: Cletus from Canuckistan: Question - if Russian soldiers are captured (without identifying insignia) on Ukrainian soil, what would they be considered under Article 5 of the Geneva Convention - POWs, unlawful combatants, or spies / saboteurs?

They are not lawful combatants. You should be able to get away with executing them as spies.

Sure they are.  They are wearing uniforms and as I pointed out above I often see them with red and yellow ribbons on those uniforms.  Provided they are openly armed, follow some sort of leader who is responsible for them, and follow the laws of war, they are very likely protected.

Now, if you have some guys in civilian clothes without any such insignia, then yeah, those you could probably execute after a trial.

Posted before I saw the ribbons.

In all fairness, though, I've see pictures where they didn't have any ribbons.  Whether it was because of the angle of the photo, or they actually didn't have any insignia, I can't tell.


Who knows. The answer to the hypothetical 'what can you do with ununiformed combatants' is still 'shoot the farkers as spies.

Of course this is what Putin wants to happen.
 
2014-04-15 01:20:44 PM  

dittybopper: Part of the problem is that the government wanted to knock back his cattle herd from 1,000 to 150.

Imagine if the government said to you "Hey, you can't work 40 hours a week anymore, you can only work 6 hours a week. At the same hourly rate.  With no compensation".

That's what started the whole thing.

/He should have payed the fees *AND* continued to graze as before.


Yes, had he done that he might actually have a leg to stand on. Especially since the fees are $1.35 per cow per month.

Nevertheless, doesn't the owner of a piece of property have a right to determine how it's used? If you owned land and had a deal with your neighbor to let him graze his cattle, don't you have the right to tell him how many cattle he can graze?
 
2014-04-15 01:20:54 PM  

Pincy: Truther: Pincy: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

I'm pretty sure all the boners being created are on the Conservatives who have man crushes on Putin.

I am a conservative and I think Putin is a dick.

I do have a boner though. Your mom is graciously taking care of it right now...

I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it


I like the way your mom/dad tickles my...

Anyways, good on you. I hope they were good dads to you.

/do you get a special Lib Ribbon for that btw?
 
2014-04-15 01:21:13 PM  
This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?
 
2014-04-15 01:21:29 PM  

MyRandomName: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?

The DoD budget is under 700 billion a year, 15% goes to R&D. Trillions? )

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?


Its not the pay, housing, and healthcare part that the Democrats want to cut you moran.
 
2014-04-15 01:21:34 PM  

LazyMedia: It's practically useless unless you have air superiority where it's operating, though.


That's always been true of close air support craft. Helicopters suffer from the same limitations.
 
2014-04-15 01:23:52 PM  

spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.


It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.
 
2014-04-15 01:24:31 PM  

Pincy: I was raised by two gay dads so I'm sure you are enjoying it


A dad gave birth? Now that is bigger news than a possible Russian invasion!
 
2014-04-15 01:27:24 PM  
Wonder how many of those "protesters" have Russian military IDs.
 
2014-04-15 01:32:40 PM  
It isn't serious until the stock markets crash.
That would be the Russian sanctions taking effect.
The west seems to have no idea how their sanctions could backfire.
Russian Bears...
 
2014-04-15 01:33:49 PM  
Holy shiat

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?

New utterly moronic talking point spotted in the wild.

Tranq it and tag it.
 
2014-04-15 01:35:35 PM  

MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.


Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?
 
2014-04-15 01:41:59 PM  

spawn73: chuggernaught: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

Japan attacked European interests in the Pacific prior to attacking Pearl Harbor.

I did not know that. I guess I always just thought of Japans attacks on Singapore and Dutch East India as from when that first occured. But I could see Japan attacking Vichy France's Indochina first.


Yah Japan hit the Dutch and British at the same time as the Americans, roughly. (Hong Kong on the 8 of December 1941 and the Dutch East indeies on the 15th [Thought the Dutch pre-emptively declared war on Japan on the 8th) They attacked French Indochina in September 1940 to stop them helping the Chinese.
 
2014-04-15 01:45:28 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.


Yeah no
Germany had next to nothing in the far east: the Samoan Islands, maybe an 8th of New Guinea and a few lesser islands.

The Japanese Empire pretty much tried to take Korea and make China its biatch from the start of the Meiji Era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_Treaty_of_1876
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_War_%281894-1895%29

They expanded there ambitions to the French and Dutch areas after America and some Europeans started placing embargoes on them for starting the second Sino-Japanese War
 
2014-04-15 01:47:10 PM  
I can't help but see Putin a bit like Zapp:

img.pandawhale.com

He's confident, arrogant, and not wholly in the real world. And dangerous.

He's got short term gains in Ukraine. He's got Crimea, he's trying for some of the eastern regions. He's waging a huge propaganda war in Ukraine and Russia.

The problem is he's got a declining state, a weakening economy, and few international partners left. It's obvious there is great civil unrest in Russia stewing just below the surface. His military is nearly half a century out of date. The southern border of Russia passes through some of the most unstable regions of the world and he's diverting his attention away from them, relying on buffer states to hold. I don't envy the situation he has, and yet he's spreading Russia thinner.

Russia is not in danger of imminent collapse, but it keeps moving closer. It's gotten so bad that now the Russian government is trying to make Gorbachev look bad, which explains the whole context of the clip on the Daily Show. If you haven't seen that clip, it is a bit scary. Russia is trying to paint Gorbachev as a criminal and make a case that the whole collapse of the Soviet Union was not legitimate and that the Eastern Bloc is rightfully still under control of Moscow.

I don't envy the position of those making decisions. I think Putin is crazier than he first appears and that current international actions are too timid, but it's hard turning the ship of state around to take action. Too many actions we want to take are limited by internal squabbles and the realities of collateral damage.

We certainly can't view this in isolation. There have been decades of bad decisions, disregard, and deception leading to this point, and the answer is not simple or straightforward.

/I'm going to stop now, I'm depressing myself.
 
2014-04-15 01:51:52 PM  

mark625: MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.

Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?


I thought it would have stopped after my single post. but.....
Insofar as the hot chicks, I was thinking Chelsea Clinton, would that work?
She so accomplished and could save the Ukraine just her parents.
Just look at those choppers, send her in to straighten things out.

maaadddog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-15 01:52:38 PM  

Carousel Beast: Absolutely, Mister Chamberlain.

/Just being snarky, not serious


I know, but speaking as a defense contractor and a former military officer, I still find the sabre-rattling to be very, very unnerving. I see no gain to the US to get involved, and a world of hurt to be had.
 
2014-04-15 01:54:19 PM  

svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: svanmeter: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

Here's a better model. Females have achieved greater access to all sectors of the military. Let's end the descrimination of requiring only MALES to register for selective service.

I think Congress and the POTUS authorized the use of female troops in combat quite a while ago. Whether they are now all eligible for military service via the draft I have no idea. If they aren't now, they will be whenever the draft is reinstituted.

*News flash* The draft would draw from the ranks of people who have registered for selective service. Currently only 18 year old MALES are required to register. Obama needs to end the descrimination against men.


It takes an act of congress to decide that. You know the ones that had the hissyfit about Women in  combat.
 
2014-04-15 01:56:37 PM  

JSTACAT: It isn't serious until the stock markets crash.
That would be the Russian sanctions taking effect.
The west seems to have no idea how their sanctions could backfire.
Russian Bears...


No love for Badgers or Blinders or Blackjacks?
 
2014-04-15 01:58:18 PM  

strobis48z4: i prefer to say "The excrement has hit the airscrew".


the fecal flow has impacted the oxygen oscillator
 
2014-04-15 01:59:10 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.


How did Japan get shafted? Germany had one Pacific colony that was spun off as an independent nation.

And it was the damned Solomons. All they had was malaria.
 
2014-04-15 01:59:22 PM  

TommyDeuce: JSTACAT: It isn't serious until the stock markets crash.
That would be the Russian sanctions taking effect.
The west seems to have no idea how their sanctions could backfire.
Russian Bears...

No love for Badgers or Blinders or Blackjacks?


wil.to
 
2014-04-15 02:02:27 PM  

mark625: MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.

Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?


NSFW
 
2014-04-15 02:04:11 PM  

CMYK and PMS: Don't worry folks, Obama has this covered. He is going to set up a twitter account in the Ukraine to make fun of the Russkies. That will show them.


What TF would you have him do?  What would you do in his place.  Be specific, please - no bullshiat about "if he'd have manned up in Syria, Putin would have been cowed." What specifically do you think the President should do to deter the second most powerful military on earth?
 
2014-04-15 02:06:16 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?


You forgot "it's just TV station", "it;s just 3rd term", "it's just talentless attention whores", etc., etc., etc., etc., etc....
 
2014-04-15 02:06:22 PM  

rwhamann: CMYK and PMS: Don't worry folks, Obama has this covered. He is going to set up a twitter account in the Ukraine to make fun of the Russkies. That will show them.

What TF would you have him do?  What would you do in his place.  Be specific, please - no bullshiat about "if he'd have manned up in Syria, Putin would have been cowed." What specifically do you think the President should do to deter the second most powerful military on earth?


Challenge him to a game of of Yahtzee
 
2014-04-15 02:06:31 PM  

danzak: Another "not Russian special forces" local insurgent.  Wonder if he feels threatened:

[fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 850x568]


I'm getting confused with Nevada and Ukraine militia. Which one had the horses or were those tanks?
 
2014-04-15 02:07:41 PM  

El Dudereno: Tatterdemalian: Today: "Meh, it's just the Ukraine. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Tomorrow: "Meh, it's just Eastern Europe. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."
Eventually: "Meh, it's just one more unexplained nuclear detonantion in US flyover country. Not worth starting a nuclear war over."

/are good men doing nothing really still good?

I'm sure the Ukrainian army would welcome a new volunteer.


A foreign national who doesn't understand orders?
Yeah, no.
 
2014-04-15 02:12:03 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 02:26:05 PM  

This text is now purple: All2morrowsparTs: It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

How did Japan get shafted? Germany had one Pacific colony that was spun off as an independent nation.

And it was the damned Solomons. All they had was malaria.

 

ShadowKamui: All2morrowsparTs: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

Yeah no
Germany had next to nothing in the far east: the Samoan Islands, maybe an 8th of New Guinea and a few lesser islands.

The Japanese Empire pretty much tried to take Korea and make China its biatch from the start of the Meiji Era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_Treaty_of_1876
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_War_%281894-1895%29

They expanded there ambitions to the French and Dutch areas after America and some Europeans started placing embargoes on them for starting the second Sino-Japanese War


Ah No and No:

They also had Shandong in China which was given to the Japanese but were only given Madate over  Palau, Northern Mariana Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Marshall Islands.

Japan was aggrieved as they were refused equal racial treatment in the Treaty of Versailles and were not allowed equal free regain in Manchuria as the Americans and British had in latin America and Colonies, respectfiully.
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_during_World_War_I#Events_of_1919

The Dutch were not  attacked until 15 December 1941 (after the Dutch Pre-emptively declared war on the 8th.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies_campaign

The Vischy French IndoChina was invaded in September of 1940 because they would not close down their rail connection to China to blockade it not because any embargo on their part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_French_Indochina

The British Hong Kong was attacked on September 8th 1941 starting Hostilities between those nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hong_Kong
 
2014-04-15 02:28:28 PM  

cheyanne9: mark625: MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.

Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?

I thought it would have stopped after my single post. but.....
Insofar as the hot chicks, I was thinking Chelsea Clinton, would that work?
She so accomplished and could save the Ukraine just her parents.
Just look at those choppers, send her in to straighten things out.

[maaadddog.files.wordpress.com image 399x266]


So, you're branching out in this thread from posting irrelevant Bundy crap to posting irrelevant Chelsea Clinton crap?
 
2014-04-15 02:33:04 PM  

Shanghai_Flyer: This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?


this ^
 
2014-04-15 02:35:51 PM  
RT has a live blog up. Not exactly a " fair and balanced" site, but good to know how Russia wants this spun. No link, as I'm on my phone, but the link to it is on their front page.
 
2014-04-15 02:38:31 PM  

firefly212: It isn't that simple, for them to be recognized as legal combatants in a state of open war, Russia would have to acknowledge that their actions were at its behest.... that seems unlikely. If Russia cuts them loose and says they were acting on their own, then they are not protected by the Geneva conventions, but would be subject to whatever the local laws are regarding their actions.


That's incorrect:

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Prisoners of war

ARTICLE 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, incuding those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.



It doesn't matter if Russia acknowledges them as being under their control or not.  They just have to meet those 4 conditions, which seem easy enough to satisfy.  They're carrying arms openly.  They have those ribbons, and so far they don't seem to have been violent enough to have racked up any major demerits due to not following the laws and customs of war.

That just leaves a commander who is ultimately responsible, and the typical soldier can simply name his local commander and that meets the requirement.
 
2014-04-15 02:46:48 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: Ah No and No:

They also had Shandong in China which was given to the Japanese but were only given Madate over  Palau, Northern Mariana Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Marshall Islands.

Japan was aggrieved as they were refused equal racial treatment in the Treaty of Versailles and were not allowed equal free regain in Manchuria as the Americans and British had in latin America and Colonies, respectfiully.
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_during_World_War_I#Events_of_1919


I guess that makes this all better, then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanking
 
2014-04-15 02:50:20 PM  

DrBenway: So, you're branching out in this thread from posting irrelevant Bundy crap to posting irrelevant Chelsea Clinton crap?


www.bundyology.com
 
2014-04-15 02:51:01 PM  

spawn73: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

The guy that wanted to put the A-10s into service looks smart compared to you.

I wonder who of you two would come closest to placing Ukraine on a map.


Wouldn't it be easier to place the map under Ukraine, rather than placing Ukraine on the map? Sure, you would have to dig a huge hole, but that's GOT to be easier than picking a country up and placing it carefully on a map, right?
 
2014-04-15 02:52:01 PM  

Shanghai_Flyer: This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?


It's Tard Tuesday. So, yeah.
 
2014-04-15 02:52:04 PM  

Dr. Farkenstein: [img.fark.net image 380x306]


Oh dear, that's much funnier than it probably should be.
 
2014-04-15 02:54:20 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: This text is now purple: All2morrowsparTs: It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

How did Japan get shafted? Germany had one Pacific colony that was spun off as an independent nation.

And it was the damned Solomons. All they had was malaria.
 ShadowKamui: All2morrowsparTs: spawn73: dukeblue219: spawn73: WWII was basicly Europe

... and the Middle East, and North Africa, and SE Asia, and India, China, Japan, Australia...

That's a good point. Whatever Japan had going with China, and partly USA had very little to do with Europe.

Untill Japan started attacking all the Dutch and English colonies of course. But still.

It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

Yeah no
Germany had next to nothing in the far east: the Samoan Islands, maybe an 8th of New Guinea and a few lesser islands.

The Japanese Empire pretty much tried to take Korea and make China its biatch from the start of the Meiji Era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_Treaty_of_1876
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_War_%281894-1895%29

They expanded there ambitions to the French and Dutch areas after America and some Europeans started placing embargoes on them for starting the second Sino-Japanese War

Ah No and No:

They also had Shandong in China which was given to the Japanese but were only given Madate over  Palau, Northern Mariana Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Marshall Islands.

Japan was aggrieved as they were refused equal racial treatment in the Treaty of Versailles and were not allowed equal free regain in Manchuria as the Americans and British had in latin America and Colonies, respectfiully.
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J ...


Australia (yeah yeah UK territory at the time) put an embargo on China in 1937 and the US did greatly reduce what they sold Japan and began supplying China.  UK and France also began supplying China

There is absolutely nothing in the Treaty of Versailles that would have changed what Japan did prior to 1941, short of giving the total control of Manchuria.

They were an aggressive empire bent on total domination of Korea and at least Northern China. Trying to blame some stupid after thought in the Treaty of Versailles is nothing but a horrible attempt at white washing the crimes committed by the Japaneses aggressors against China and Korea
 
2014-04-15 02:57:04 PM  

cheyanne9: mark625: MyRandomName: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Ummm... 1) it was not always owned by the feds. 2) it was not bought by the feds, the feds used questionable policy to assert rights over the lands. 3) the feds have used said policy to take around 80% of Nevada's state lands. 4) the same desert turtle was moved in order to build a solar plant for Reid's good friend, but apparently too endangered to allow cattle on the same land.

Would you two idiots take that conversation somewhere else please?

Or at least post pics of hot Ukrainian (or Nevadan (shudder)) chicks?

I thought it would have stopped after my single post. but.....
Insofar as the hot chicks, I was thinking Chelsea Clinton, would that work?
She so accomplished and could save the Ukraine just her parents.
Just look at those choppers, send her in to straighten things out.

[maaadddog.files.wordpress.com image 399x266]


Time for you to go into the circular bin. Adios, mofo.
 
2014-04-15 03:01:43 PM  

ShadowKamui: Australia (yeah yeah UK territory at the time) put an embargo on China in 1937 and the US did greatly reduce what they sold Japan and began supplying China.


Australia was a separate country as of 1907.
 
2014-04-15 03:11:39 PM  

MyRandomName: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see. Now is the time where we

1. raise taxes

2. institute a draft

Oh wait. That model is outdated.

Nowadays, I think the model is

1. cut taxes on the wealthy

2. pay trillions to military contractors

3. force military volunteers to live in near poverty and serve multiple 15 month combat tours with little or no time off between tours

/You know, if you live on the right side of the tracks and know the right people, war can be a real money-maker.

This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?

The DoD budget is under 700 billion a year, 15% goes to R&D. Trillions? )

And finally... 50% of the DoD budget is for troop pay, housing, healthcare. It is democrats seeking to cut that budget. Odd, no?


Bush tax cuts.

Refusal to raise taxes to pay for Iraq and Afghanistan wars (remember the Bush administration said the illegal preemptive war would pay for itself).

Renewal of Bush tax cuts during two wars.

Trillions paid to contractors? A ten year oil war in Iraq which was tended by military contractors--including apparently mercenaries.  A war that was funded off-budget so we don't really know exactly what we paid to contractors over those 10 years and since then.

The Democrats want to cut defense spending? You might want to look at the Ryan budget just passed by the House. A half a trillion dollars in defense spending ABOVE current law.

You're right. This is fun.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-10/house-passes-republican-rya n- s-budget-to-cut-spending.html
 
2014-04-15 03:19:51 PM  

washington-babylon: spawn73: IamKaiserSoze!!!: This must create almost as big of a farklib boner as Israel being overtaken by Syria

The guy that wanted to put the A-10s into service looks smart compared to you.

I wonder who of you two would come closest to placing Ukraine on a map.

Wouldn't it be easier to place the map under Ukraine, rather than placing Ukraine on the map? Sure, you would have to dig a huge hole, but that's GOT to be easier than picking a country up and placing it carefully on a map, right?


I was thinking doing it blindfolded, kinda like pin the tail the donkey.
 
2014-04-15 03:32:36 PM  

MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.


Actually, if you take into consideration just the US Constitution, Bundy has a point. Article 1, section 8, Paragraph 17 (describing the powers of congress): "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings "

All further constitutional powers granted to the federal government (Article 4, for example) only allow the federal government to regulate public lands. The federal government was never granted the power or authority to seize the majority of the Midwest and declare ownership. Yes, the government can own land. But there are heavy restrictions on what exact land it can own, and what it can use those lands for. The BLM is a branch of the federal government, much like the NSA, the FBI, the CIA, (or any other agency) and as such should be bound by the same rules as the rest of the government. Under none of the special legal privileges granted to the Federal Government do the lands claimed by the BLM have any legal standing (other than "Precedent"), therefore, the land is technically "Unclaimed" and falls under state laws regarding the filing of claims for mining or homesteading. If you disagree, you are quite welcome to point out the particular article of the US Constitution that grants the Federal Government ownership of the majority of the midwestern and western lands. So far, no one has been able to.
 
2014-04-15 03:40:15 PM  

washington-babylon: Actually, if you take into consideration just the US Constitution, Bundy has a point.


www.bundyology.com
 
2014-04-15 03:42:54 PM  

washington-babylon: MindStalker: cheyanne9: [www.bookwormroom.com image 599x799]

I don't get this argument. You have state sheriffs insisting that federally owned land is state land and people protesting their state right to use that land as they see fit.  If the state wants the land it can farking buy it from the federal government (well I guess the feds have to be willing to sell), but its land legally owned by the feds and has always been owned by the feds. This is only states rights as far as the right of states to annex federal property, which they don't have.

Actually, if you take into consideration just the US Constitution, Bundy has a point. Article 1, section 8, Paragraph 17 (describing the powers of congress): "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings "

All further constitutional powers granted to the federal government (Article 4, for example) only allow the federal government to regulate public lands. The federal government was never granted the power or authority to seize the majority of the Midwest and declare ownership. Yes, the government can own land. But there are heavy restrictions on what exact land it can own, and what it can use those lands for. The BLM is a branch of the federal government, much like the NSA, the FBI, the CIA, (or any other agency) and as such should be bound by the same rules as the rest of the government. Under none of the special legal privileges granted to the Federal Government do the lands claimed by the BLM have any legal standing (other than "Precedent"), therefore, the land is technically "Unclaimed" and falls under state l ...


Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).
 
2014-04-15 03:46:56 PM  

dittybopper: All2morrowsparTs: Ah No and No:

They also had Shandong in China which was given to the Japanese but were only given Madate over  Palau, Northern Mariana Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Marshall Islands.

Japan was aggrieved as they were refused equal racial treatment in the Treaty of Versailles and were not allowed equal free regain in Manchuria as the Americans and British had in latin America and Colonies, respectfiully.
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_during_World_War_I#Events_of_1919

I guess that makes this all better, then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanking


No it was a tragedy, but completely irrelevant to the topic I was addressing which in itself was a thread that was irrelevant to the original topic. So congratulations?
 
2014-04-15 03:53:23 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).


img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 03:59:15 PM  

Maud Dib: Shanghai_Flyer: This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?

It's Tard Tuesday. So, yeah.


No, it's Neutral Evil Tuesday.  Tomorrow is Lawful Evil Wednesday, day after that is True Neutral Thursday, then Good Friday.

/Yesterday was just Chaotic Evil.
 
2014-04-15 03:59:31 PM  

ShadowKamui: Australia (yeah yeah UK territory at the time) put an embargo on China in 1937 and the US did greatly reduce what they sold Japan and began supplying China. UK and France also began supplying ChinaThere is absolutely nothing in the Treaty of Versailles that would have changed what Japan did prior to 1941, short of giving the total control of Manchuria.They were an aggressive empire bent on total domination of Korea and at least Northern China. Trying to blame some stupid after thought in the Treaty of Versailles is nothing but a horrible attempt at white washing the crimes committed by the Japaneses aggressors against China and Korea


First off, I am not making a judgment on Japans guilt regarding WW2 or the Sino-Japanese War, I was saying some would argue (and they did) that the outcome of WW1 put them on a negative path towards the west. Along with this and economic discord in 1926 allowed for the militarism of Japanese government and society that actually lead to their imperial ambitions. That is what the articles that were saying.

Also again I'm not saying that no one put an embargo on Japan, I'm saying that Indo China was invaded not because of the embargo but because of their refusal to close their supply routes to China.

Not that the embargoing government of France was not the same one, with the same influences, as the Government the Japanese eventually attacked.

Also some one said that Britain and the Dutch were in a shooting war with Japan before the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor, and the articles I posted refuted that fact.
 
2014-04-15 04:02:24 PM  

dittybopper: Maud Dib: Shanghai_Flyer: This thread is starting to confuse me...so there are Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms riding cattle from Nevada and having a stand-off with Ukraine and the BLM? Have I got that right? Also desert tortoises on land with gas pipelines to Western Europe?

It's Tard Tuesday. So, yeah.

No, it's Neutral Evil Tuesday.  Tomorrow is Lawful Evil Wednesday, day after that is True Neutral Thursday, then Good Friday.

/Yesterday was just Chaotic Evil.


STOP OPPRESSING ME AND MY CHAOTIC NEUTRAL BRETHREN!
 
2014-04-15 04:03:38 PM  

Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]


Sorry. I meant to link directly to Justice Story's commentary.
 
2014-04-15 04:14:20 PM  

rwhamann: Carousel Beast: Absolutely, Mister Chamberlain.

/Just being snarky, not serious

I know, but speaking as a defense contractor and a former military officer, I still find the sabre-rattling to be very, very unnerving. I see no gain to the US to get involved, and a world of hurt to be had.


I agree with you, FWIW, I was just in a mood :)

I don't like the situation one bit, but it really does boil down to Ukraine screwing itself over diplomatically. They had a very stark preview of the way Russia was going to behave with the Georgia incident, and that was in 2008 - they've had plenty of time to join NATO or make other treaties for self-protection, and they didn't.
 
2014-04-15 04:16:40 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: ShadowKamui: Australia (yeah yeah UK territory at the time) put an embargo on China in 1937 and the US did greatly reduce what they sold Japan and began supplying China. UK and France also began supplying ChinaThere is absolutely nothing in the Treaty of Versailles that would have changed what Japan did prior to 1941, short of giving the total control of Manchuria.They were an aggressive empire bent on total domination of Korea and at least Northern China. Trying to blame some stupid after thought in the Treaty of Versailles is nothing but a horrible attempt at white washing the crimes committed by the Japaneses aggressors against China and Korea

First off, I am not making a judgment on Japans guilt regarding WW2 or the Sino-Japanese War, I was saying some would argue (and they did) that the outcome of WW1 put them on a negative path towards the west. Along with this and economic discord in 1926 allowed for the militarism of Japanese government and society that actually lead to their imperial ambitions. That is what the articles that were saying.

Also again I'm not saying that no one put an embargo on Japan, I'm saying that Indo China was invaded not because of the embargo but because of their refusal to close their supply routes to China.

Not that the embargoing government of France was not the same one, with the same influences, as the Government the Japanese eventually attacked.

Also some one said that Britain and the Dutch were in a shooting war with Japan before the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor, and the articles I posted refuted that fact.


Yes you are.  Everything you posted was just worthless garbage attempting to white wash away Japanese aggression and say they did it because the west was mean to them.  Japan wanted Korea and Manchuria and was going to take it no matter what useless German crumbs the West gave them.  About the only way that wouldn't of happened is if the West had openly declared war on the Russian commies and told Japan that Siberia was theirs as long as they killed every single commie they could find.
 
gja
2014-04-15 04:18:53 PM  
scienceblogs.com
 
2014-04-15 04:28:12 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]

Sorry. I meant to link directly to Justice Story's commentary.


The link as posted still succinctly put forward the legal perspective.

i257.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-15 05:37:24 PM  
Ukrainian protester:

i.cbc.ca

American Protester:

crooksandliars.com

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.
 
2014-04-15 05:52:58 PM  

Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]


Except that "Territory or other Property belonging to the United States " does not include the states themselves, or the property therein (THAT belongs to the people). As for the other commentary that you linked, it makes the argument that all property of the confederated states falls under the heading of "Territory" as conquered from a foreign nation. This argument is absurd in the extreme, as by definition that would grant the federal government exclusive ownership of anything south of the mason-dixon line, with the ability to govern without states having any representation or state government. This is obviously false. The Territory or property clause extends only to lands directly owned by the federal government, and those lands are clearly defined in Article 1, section 8. BLM lands don't fall into the defined lands the federal government is allowed to retain ownership of, therefore the claiming of said lands is illegal. The only reason this has been allowed to slide is because nobody wanted to say anything to contravene the fed's claims.
 
2014-04-15 06:00:28 PM  

washington-babylon: The only reason this has been allowed to slide is because nobody wanted to say anything to contravene the fed's claims.



Also nobody cared about land polluted from nuclear tests and flying saucer debris.
 
2014-04-15 06:09:59 PM  
ShadowKamui:

Yes you are.  Everything you posted was just worthless garbage attempting to white wash away Japanese aggression and say they did it because the west was mean to them.  Japan wanted Korea and Manchuria and was going to take it no matter what useless German crumbs the West gave them.  About the only way that wouldn't of happened is if the West had openly declared war on the Russian commies and told Ja ...


Good lord, if you are going to put words in my mouth get your facts right. Japan already had control of Korea as of 1905 and solidified it with annexation in 1910, and allof it started with the Treaty of 1876 when Japan pulled a Dewey on Korea because the French and the Americans failed to do it themselves. This had no bearing with their conquest interests in WW2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

Also the Japanese in Manchuria had more to do with the railway line it inherited from the Russians after the Treaty of Portsmouth. The actual invasion was more related to Golf of Tonkin than a general strategy to take Manchuria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident

Again, I'm not defending Japans actions in WW2 or the Sino-Japanese war but get your freakin' facts straight before accusing others of negligence.
 
2014-04-15 06:24:56 PM  

codigo: washington-babylon: The only reason this has been allowed to slide is because nobody wanted to say anything to contravene the fed's claims.


Also nobody cared about land polluted from nuclear tests and flying saucer debris.


That is a tiny portion of BLM-claimed lands. Take a look (not the most recent map, but the BLM rarely ever changes "ownership"):

protectmustangs.org
 
2014-04-15 06:30:18 PM  

Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.


www.reviewjournal.com
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?
 
2014-04-15 06:34:45 PM  

dittybopper: youmightberight: How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right?

What if Russia decided it wanted Alaska *BACK*?


I didn't want to go that far with it but with the reaction they are getting in Europe Putin would have no reason NOT to try for as much land as he thinks he can get.
 
2014-04-15 06:36:02 PM  

echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?


What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?
 
2014-04-15 06:39:00 PM  

spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway.

Economic aid, monitor that electi ...


Economic aid to a country that is about to be taken over? no thank you.

Monitor elections? And give legitimacy to putins land grabs? Are you a farking idiot?

You're dealing with a KGB/FSB guy who wants to rule the old soviet union/Russian empire. Know your enemy.

As for who to shoot at - it's easy - they are all wearing the newest highspeed Russian digicam. Not hard.
 
2014-04-15 06:40:05 PM  

washington-babylon: codigo: washington-babylon: The only reason this has been allowed to slide is because nobody wanted to say anything to contravene the fed's claims.


Also nobody cared about land polluted from nuclear tests and flying saucer debris.

That is a tiny portion of BLM-claimed lands. Take a look (not the most recent map, but the BLM rarely ever changes "ownership"):

[protectmustangs.org image 850x579]


The BLM does not claim ownership of the land. They are the Federal organization that maintains it because it does fall into the jurisdiction of the other services like National Park Services or USDA (National Forest Service).

The BLM's pure roots go back to the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. These laws provided for the survey and settlement of the lands that the original 13 colonies ceded to the federal government after the American Revolution. As additional lands were acquired by the United States from Spain, France and other countries, the United States Congress directed that they be explored, surveyed, and made available for settlement. In 1812, Congress established the General Land Office in the Department of the Treasury to oversee the disposition of these federal lands. As the 19th century progressed and the nation's land base expanded further west, Congress encouraged the settlement of the land by enacting a wide variety of laws, including the Homestead Act and the Mining Law of 1872.

These statutes served one of the major policy goals of the young country-settlement of the Western territories. With the exception of the Mining Law of 1872 and the Desert Land Act of 1877 (which was amended), all have since been repealed or superseded by other statutes.
The late 19th century marked a shift in federal land management priorities with the creation of the first national parks, forests, and wildlife refuges. By withdrawing these lands from settlement, Congress signaled a shift in the policy goals served by the public lands. Instead of using them to promote settlement, Congress decided that they should be held in public ownership because of their other resource values.


In the early 20th century, Congress took additional steps toward recognizing the value of the assets on public lands and directed the Executive Branch to manage activities on the remaining public lands. The Mineral Leasing Act of 1920 allowed leasing, exploration, and production of selected commodities, such as coal, oil, gas, and sodium to take place on public lands. The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 established the U.S. Grazing Service to manage the public rangelands. The Oregon and California (O&C) Act of August 28, 1937, required sustained yield management of the timberlands in western Oregon.
In 1946, the Grazing Service was merged with the General Land Office (a product of the country's territorial expansion and the federal government's nineteenth-century homesteading policies) to form the Bureau of Land Management within the Department of the Interior. When the BLM was initially created, there were over 2,000 unrelated and often conflicting laws for managing the public lands. The BLM had no unified legislative mandate until Congress enacted the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 (FLPMA).
In FLPMA, Congress recognized the value of the remaining public lands by declaring that these lands would remain in public ownership. Congress used the term "multiple use" management, defined as "management of the public lands and their various resource values so that they are utilized in the combination that will best meet the present and future needs of the American people."
The land management policy of the federal government before 1946 involved on the one hand rapid disposal to miners, ranchers and farmers, and on the other hand reservations for national parks, forests, wildlife refuges, and military needs. The combination of 1946 of the General Land Office and the Grazing Service into the new Bureau of Land Management was filled with ambiguity. In terms of bureaucracy, there has been a constant tension between the local district rangers, who have typically been oriented toward the mining and ranching interests, and the centralized leadership in Washington that follows presidential guidance. Since the Reagan years of the 1980s, Republicans have emphasized local control giving priority to grazing, mining and petroleum production, while Democrats have emphasized environmentalism.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management
 
2014-04-15 06:53:22 PM  

echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?


sorry, when did I disagree with anyone?

Also, I thought this thread was about the Uke's and the Russkies?
 
2014-04-15 06:54:39 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?


never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.
 
2014-04-15 06:58:52 PM  

echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.


He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.
 
2014-04-15 07:09:27 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.


that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.
 
2014-04-15 07:09:47 PM  

washington-babylon: Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]

Except that "Territory or other Property belonging to the United States " does not include the states themselves,



Guess what Nevada was before it became a state. And the upper midwest. And most of the rest of flyover country. And Alaska.
And Hawaii. Go on. Guess.
 
2014-04-15 07:10:09 PM  

echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.


I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.
 
2014-04-15 07:13:34 PM  
That's funny, we get a mix of everything in this thread.  How about that global warming?
 
2014-04-15 07:14:16 PM  

echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.


Can beards get caught up in rifle mechanisms? He'll give his position away if he starts screaming like a...a guy with his beard caught in a rifle mechanism.
 
2014-04-15 07:22:01 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.


yea but who cares what you think?
 
2014-04-15 07:23:11 PM  

MyRandomName: This is fun. Currently the top quintile pays the largest share of taxes that it has since the income tax started. So what taxes were cut?


That's because effective corporate rates and tariff revenues are waaaaaaaaaaaaay down.
 
2014-04-15 07:26:05 PM  

echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.

yea but who cares what you think?


Doesn't change my point. Standing around with a rifle protesting a non-existent wrong is not anywhere close to what's going on in Ukraine.

If a bunch of dudes stand around with rifles protesting unicorn abuse, are they strong too?
 
2014-04-15 07:30:02 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.

yea but who cares what you think?

Doesn't change my point. Standing around with a rifle protesting a non-existent wrong is not anywhere close to what's going on in Ukraine.

If a bunch of dudes stand around with rifles protesting unicorn abuse, are they strong too?


addyosmani.com
have fun with your point.
 
2014-04-15 07:31:09 PM  

echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.

yea but who cares what you think?

Doesn't change my point. Standing around with a rifle protesting a non-existent wrong is not anywhere close to what's going on in Ukraine.

If a bunch of dudes stand around with rifles protesting unicorn abuse, are they strong too?

[addyosmani.com image 540x365]
have fun with your point.


At least mine is valid. Comparing some nut standing around in Arizona to the actual protesters in Ukraine, some of who's lives were and are at actual risk, is just silly.
 
2014-04-15 07:32:10 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.

yea but who cares what you think?

Doesn't change my point. Standing around with a rifle protesting a non-existent wrong is not anywhere close to what's going on in Ukraine.

If a bunch of dudes stand around with rifles protesting unicorn abuse, are they strong too?

[addyosmani.com image 540x365]
have fun with your point.

At least mine is valid. Comparing some nut standing around in Arizona to the actual protesters in Ukraine, some of whose lives were and are at actual risk, is just silly.


FTFM
 
2014-04-15 07:33:52 PM  

grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: grumpfuff: echomike23: Finger51: Ukrainian protester:

[i.cbc.ca image 620x349]

American Protester:

[crooksandliars.com image 460x380]

But let's all remind ourselves, it is Ukraine that is weak.

[www.reviewjournal.com image 360x480]
does this guy not count just because you disagree with him?

What, exactly, makes him strong, rather than just delusional?

never mentioned anything about being delusional or strong, he is protesting thats it.

He's protesting an imagined wrong. Get back to me when he protests something actually happening in the same way.

that rifle isn't imaginary, whether you think its right or wrong.

I can go outside and stand around with a rifle too. Doesn't make me strong or special.

yea but who cares what you think?

Doesn't change my point. Standing around with a rifle protesting a non-existent wrong is not anywhere close to what's going on in Ukraine.

If a bunch of dudes stand around with rifles protesting unicorn abuse, are they strong too?

[addyosmani.com image 540x365]
have fun with your point.

At least mine is valid. Comparing some nut standing around in Arizona to the actual protesters in Ukraine, some of who's lives were and are at actual risk, is just silly.


no it isnt. but its all good ;)

/something something arguing in the internet.
 
2014-04-15 07:36:22 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon: Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]

Except that "Territory or other Property belonging to the United States " does not include the states themselves,


Guess what Nevada was before it became a state. And the upper midwest. And most of the rest of flyover country. And Alaska.
And Hawaii. Go on. Guess.


No longer a Territory dingus. So the Rules for Territories no longer apply. Are you really that dense? Also, note that my original statement said that Bundy had a point- if all you consider is the US Constitution. Bundy's mistake is in not considering post-constitution laws and provisions. Under that framework, the man had better pay up.
 
Al!
2014-04-15 07:53:32 PM  
The quotes in this article are hilarious when taken against the backdrop of Russian support for the current Syrian government.

FTFA:

 "criminal to fight with your own people as they speak out for their legal rights."

Bashar Al-Assad waves to Vladimir Putin while ordering more bombs be dropped on Homs.
 
2014-04-15 08:20:42 PM  

washington-babylon: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon: Seraphym: demaL-demaL-yeH: washington-babylon:

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 would like a word, O Great Fark Constitutional Scholar(TM).

[img.fark.net image 400x400]

Except that "Territory or other Property belonging to the United States " does not include the states themselves,


Guess what Nevada was before it became a state. And the upper midwest. And most of the rest of flyover country. And Alaska.
And Hawaii. Go on. Guess.

No longer a Territory dingus. So the Rules for Territories no longer apply. Are you really that dense? Also, note that my original statement said that Bundy had a point- if all you consider is the US Constitution. Bundy's mistake is in not considering post-constitution laws and provisions. Under that framework, the man had better pay up.


The Federal lands do not magically change ownership when statehood is attained. And while I do not know what kind of legal entity a Territory dingus is, I suspect that it originated in very the same place you're pulling your, um, "argument": Your fourth point of contact.
 
2014-04-15 08:54:15 PM  

This text is now purple: All2morrowsparTs: It has been argued that Japan's Imperial ambitions prior to ww2 was the result of Japan getting shafted when they were doling out all the German colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

How did Japan get shafted? Germany had one Pacific colony that was spun off as an independent nation.

And it was the damned Solomons. All they had was malaria.


Japan was forced to give back a lot of the Russian territory they took in 1905. And they were given the 3 of the 5-5-3 naval treaty among the U.S., Great Britain and Japan.
 
2014-04-15 09:58:18 PM  

youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway.

Economic aid to a country that is about to be taken over? no thank you.

Monitor elections? And give legitimacy to putins land grabs? Are you a farking idiot?

You're dealing with a KGB/FSB guy who wants to rule the old soviet union/Russian empire. Know your enemy.

As for who to shoot at - it's easy - they are all wearing the newest highspeed Russian digicam. Not hard.


Good thing keyboard warriors are exactly that.
 
2014-04-15 11:56:23 PM  

spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway.

Economic aid to a country that is about to be taken over? no thank you.

Monitor elections? And give legitimacy to putins land grabs? Are you a farking idiot?

You're dealing with a KGB/FSB guy who wants to rule the old soviet union/Russian empire. Know your enemy.

As for who to shoot at - it's easy - they are all wearing the newest highspeed Russian digicam. Not hard.

Good thing keyboard warriors are exactly that.


Hey farkstick I'm a veteran of Iraq so go blow your keyboard warrior bullshiat somewhere else.
 
2014-04-16 12:51:56 AM  

youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway. ...

Hey farkstick I'm a veteran of Iraq so go blow your keyboard warrior bullshiat somewhere else.


Fair enough. But that hardly makes it better does it?

People are trying to solve a complicated geopolitical issue, well, everyone except people in Ukraine. And you knowing war, advocates farking the place even more up, god damn the consequences.
 
2014-04-16 09:16:49 AM  
Can't wait for the movie.
 
2014-04-16 09:44:15 AM  

spawn73: Fair enough. But that hardly makes it better does it?People are trying to solve a complicated geopolitical issue, well, everyone except people in Ukraine. And you knowing war, advocates farking the place even more up, god damn the consequences.


At least the warriors don't pretend there are no consequences to their actions.

/knowing what the consequences are is the first step toward mitigating them
//that's why military engagements today have far fewer civilian casualties than even twenty years ago
///you should be more worried about the actions you keep being told are free of unintended consequences until it's too late to take them back
 
2014-04-16 10:24:24 AM  

spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway. ...

Hey farkstick I'm a veteran of Iraq so go blow your keyboard warrior bullshiat somewhere else.

Fair enough. But that hardly makes it better does it?

People are trying to solve a complicated geopolitical issue, well, everyone except people in Ukraine. And you knowing war, advocates farking the place even more up, god damn the consequences.


No - not god damn the consequences- but because allowing Russia to do this and continue to grab land like this is a path to a much larger war.

Putin is a calculating bastard not a mad man with a nuke. As soon as he sees troops from a well armed nation farking up his plans he is going to fold. Give him enough time and continue to throw weak sanctions at him and he will thank that's all you're ever going to do. Then one day when he's taking Poland or somewhere we "care about" we ARE going to have to pull the guns out - question is will it have been before or after he has rebuilt the Russian army and Air Force.
 
2014-04-16 10:27:48 AM  

youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: spawn73: youmightberight: Now would be a good time to pull the A-10's out of mothballs.

Surely you are trolling.

Your response is to attack and kill, uh someone, in a country that doesn't concern USA, and furthermore could shot those farking A-10s down if they so pleased.


Or is it just that Ukrainian tank stuck in the mud you want to strafe?

Not trolling - Putin needs to keep his hands out of the cookie jar and him sending his guys in without insignia to act as "protestors" is complete bullshiat. The fact that you seem to be giving him a pass for his COMPLETELY OBVIOUS SHENANIGANS  is frankly disturbing to me. As for it not concerning us yes it does. Lines on a map may just be lines but they CLEARLY delineate the rule of one group from that of another. How would you like it if Canada decided to say - annex Alaska - I mean it's in their backyard and it's not that big of a change anyway right? Oh who cares that they sent soldiers in without insignia as pretense Canada is a nuclear armed country and we don't want a war with them so just give them what they want.

This is essentially what we are telling Ukraine - But wait there's more. We basically told these people that if they gave up their nukes we would respect their national boundaries. Now this isn't a promise to come to their aid and defense but guess what. Russia isn't going to stop once they have all of Ukraine.

So you shoot up the unmarked guys so this shiat stops before you have to really go to war.

Ukraine got a really bum deal. Maybe they're regretting ever so slightly that they tore up that EU brokered peace deal.

So, yeah, they're still going bankrupt. The upcomming election is even more a farce. It easier to mention who isn't running around acting like dickheads now.

How about this, the A-10 has no place there. The Ukraine doesn't even have a legitimate government to ask for such an assitance. And you'd probably not know who to shoot at anyway. ...

Hey farkstick I'm a veteran of Iraq so go blow your keyboard warrior bullshiat somewhere else.

Fair enough. But that hardly makes it better does it?

People are trying to solve a complicated geopolitical issue, well, everyone except people in Ukraine. And you knowing war, advocates farking the place even more up, god damn the consequences.

No - not god damn the consequences- but because allowing Russia to do this and continue to grab land like this is a path to a much larger war.

Putin is a calculating bastard not a mad man with a nuke. As soon as he sees troops from a well armed nation farking up his plans he is going to fold. Give him enough time and continue to throw weak sanctions at him and he will thank that's all you're ever going to do. Then one day when he's taking Poland or somewhere we "care about" we ARE going to have to pull the guns out - question is will it have been before or after he has rebuilt the Russian army and Air Force.


*think

farking auto correct.
 
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