Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 209
    More: Asinine, Ted Bundy, Bundy Ranch, police officers, firefighters, foreign exchange reserves  
•       •       •

12524 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-04-15 07:22:46 AM  
14 votes:

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Except when they don't
i676.photobucket.com
2014-04-15 07:50:57 AM  
12 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


Oh christ this lie again?

No.
A) The Chinese group pulled out. IN 2013

B) The proposed site was *TWO HUNDRED MILES AWAY*

C) The issue with Bundy HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO DECADES.

People are playing you for a fool, and you're falling into their hands.
2014-04-15 07:08:25 AM  
10 votes:

fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.
2014-04-15 10:41:24 AM  
9 votes:

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.
2014-04-15 07:47:45 AM  
8 votes:

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't recall anyone in OWS being armed and threatening to shoot federal employees while hiding behind women. You're a farking lunatic.
2014-04-15 07:24:50 AM  
8 votes:
After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.
2014-04-15 07:09:06 AM  
8 votes:
the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

c2.staticflickr.com
2014-04-15 06:39:58 AM  
8 votes:
It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.
2014-04-15 07:48:16 AM  
7 votes:

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Were they heavily armed and eager for a gun battle with law enforcement? Did they set up sniper positions? Brandish arms? *really*?

/Seriously, you really feel sympathy for these assholes, dont' you? You're even trying to conflate them as 'the same' as OWS, because Reasons.
2014-04-15 07:34:13 AM  
7 votes:
fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net
2014-04-15 07:29:24 AM  
7 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.
2014-04-15 07:10:50 AM  
7 votes:
The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.
2014-04-15 07:59:00 AM  
6 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
img.fark.net


Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.
2014-04-15 07:52:04 AM  
6 votes:

Ivandrago: JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.

The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.


Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.
2014-04-15 07:45:01 AM  
6 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".
2014-04-15 09:56:36 AM  
5 votes:

Brick-House: Do we really need every federal agency being able to dispatch Special Forces Teams?


My friend is a sheriff, and he has to deal with these nutters (Sovereign Citizens) every so often. He has a few officers he's given special training to so they can deal with them without it erupting into a firefight every time. One thing people who don't deal with nut jobs like this don't understand: They really see you as an invader and feel they have free reign to put 10 rounds into you without repercussion. This isn't just about grazing land, license plates, taxes, or any that of shiat. These people make the Civil War South look sane. Sherman might've burned these a$$holes to the ground if he was let loose on them, but the Confederacy would have curb stomped their a$$ just as quickly. These people are the one-half of one percent of extremists and feel they should be able to do what they want, when they want.

One of the best things my friend fought hard to get in the cruisers was the dash cams. A couple of the older cops resisted a bit, they didn't know if it was going to really work or just create another headache. I've seen some dashcam footage of Sovereign Citizens, and these people are so farking insane it's near unbelievable they function at all. Then you realize it's all a sham, most will gladly use that worthless paper from an illegitimate government. Most will demand to be paid in it, even while shouting from the rooftops that it's worthless.

Sovereign citizen movements are usually nothing but extremist libertarian retards that don't want to pay income taxes. The biggest problem is that they tend to react very violently when their shtick is called. No, that homemade license plate won't cut it Emperor Pro Tem Charles Avery, III. Yes you still have to pay property taxes on that 250 acres Peter Griffin.

The worst is the law suits, well unless they shoot you as an invader. For someone who hates the courts so much, most of them seem perfectly happy to file ridiculous law suits against, well, anyone they can think of that might be tangentially involved with the government. My friend had a lien falsely put on his house, multiple times. I won't go into the judges and attorneys who have to read this headache inducing shiat they scrawl in crayon for briefs, before they too are personally sued and / or have false liens placed on their property.

In sum total, these retards go out of their way to break laws, be irritating, and are regularly violent. I don't blame anyone for protecting themselves, or their employees, from them.
2014-04-15 09:26:53 AM  
4 votes:

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.


img.fark.net
2014-04-15 08:53:47 AM  
4 votes:

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


No, people like myself don't want anyone killed, but we also think that if you take up arms against this country, that the government have every right to curb stomp you, especially if you're wrong.
2014-04-15 08:10:37 AM  
4 votes:

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


...you've never been bullied, have you?
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM  
4 votes:
Felgraf:

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

Well, yeah, that precedent has been set. It flows from the top.

kaystreet.files.wordpress.com

"There is a vast amount of discretion that a president has - and, more specifically, that an attorney general has,"     -  Eric Holder

Laws are for suckers.
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 08:00:21 AM  
4 votes:
What wonderful heroes the conservative movement has these days.

A loser who wants to use women for human shields because he wants to have a standoff over the fact that he wants to steal from the government.

Freedom!
2014-04-15 07:59:51 AM  
4 votes:
JohnnyC:  Most of those kinds of folks "don't recognize the court" (including this Bundy guy). Sovereign citizens... gold fringe flag conspiracies about "admiralty courts"... and all that other nonsense. We're talking about people who aren't really operating in the same plane of reality that the rest of us are. They're not thinking about court... they're thinking that if they can get the fed to start the firefight that somehow it'll end with them burning the White House to the ground and forming some new government under their rule.

That's what I think is awesome about this whole thing. Bundy doesn't recognize the authority of the BLM and his supports don't recognize the authority of the federal government. But the federal government doesn't care whether or not you "recognize" their authority. They're going to subject you to it anyway. You can biatch and moan and cry and stamp your feet all you want while you're sitting in a federal court in leg irons waiting for you sentence. P. Barnes doesn't care if you don't think your subject to the laws of the federal government and his taser certainly doesn't, as well. Better yet, ask Tim McVeigh how well trying to start a war worked out for him.
2014-04-15 07:57:38 AM  
4 votes:

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want
2014-04-15 07:47:43 AM  
4 votes:
Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.
2014-04-15 02:57:36 PM  
3 votes:

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


The BLM isn't bungling. They're waiting. Southern NV with triple-digit temperatures isn't comfortable, and most of these people are from out of state and probably don't have the money or time to spend indefinitely around the ranch. Instead of having a shootout that ends with another Waco, the BLM is sitting back, waiting until Bundy's supporters have gone home, and then quietly arresting him. That's exactly what they should be doing--no loss of life, justice served, everyone wins.

/Also why the FAA has a no-fly zone over the ranch.
//This isn't a war--this is a society with a crazy guy. Letting him wear himself out, then locking his ass up, is exactly how to handle it.
2014-04-15 01:11:05 PM  
3 votes:

ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.


Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.
2014-04-15 11:21:15 AM  
3 votes:
Republican has cows eating grass

cdn.rt.com

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
vote29.com

img.fark.net
2014-04-15 11:14:20 AM  
3 votes:

LoioshASH: As I understand it,. . .   UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.


Your understanding is contradicted by reality.  What private company 'was interested in purchasing the land'?  Please be specific.
2014-04-15 08:54:12 AM  
3 votes:

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


I don't think the Occupy supporters want to kill Bundy.   They didn't bring the guns.   I think they would just like him to pay his fair share for the public resources he is using - after all, he is a wealthy businessman.  You know, ,just like the bankers the Occupy supporters want to pay their fair share for the public resources they are using.

The argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits
2014-04-15 08:52:21 AM  
3 votes:

Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.


Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.
2014-04-15 08:05:47 AM  
3 votes:

vpb: dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".

Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.


What's the difference, really?  It's the other side that *ALWAYS* has guns.  But because they're *GOVERNMENT* guns, they're always good, right?  Because the police would *NEVER* shoot unarmed people.

www.trbimg.com

And I want to point this out for emphasis because apparently some of you can't read:

TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.


That's not to say I'm 100% sympathetic to the people down there.  I go back and forth on it*, but I'm intellectually honest enough to recognize that the visuals of seeing women and children getting shot by federal agents would look very, very, very bad for the government on TV.

Doesn't matter if you agree with the strategy or not, from a public relations standpoint, if things had gone all pear-shaped, it would have made the government look bad.  You may not like the people who thought of it, and you might think they are in the wrong, but you can't argue that fact.


*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not sure I agree with what the guy did, and knowing that, I certainly wouldn't have hauled my ass out there to support him.
2014-04-15 07:59:44 AM  
3 votes:

Launch Code: .
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


Hard working Americans pay their grazing fees.
2014-04-15 07:59:06 AM  
3 votes:

doglover: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?

War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.


My (off topic) point is that I'm tired of people breaking out Sun Tzu quotes. About half of what he said is pretty reasonable, but patently obvious stuff ("Move by stealth! Disguise your intentions! Occupy the high ground!") and the other half is just random crap like how many ox carts equal one archer or whatever. Whenever I see a Sun Tzu quote, or someone pulling out the tired Clausewitz "war is the continuation of politics by other means," I've got a very strong "stopped reading there" inclination.
2014-04-15 07:57:37 AM  
3 votes:

way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?
2014-04-15 07:53:10 AM  
3 votes:

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


I don't to many people from OWS sitting behind concrete walls and drawing a bead on Federal Agents. Even with a rather extensive exposure to right wing radio and groups, the worst that was ever recorded was someone taking a dump on a cop car.* 

*There is also the whole "stop raping people" thing, but I haven't seen an evidence to support the allegation.
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-04-15 07:49:49 AM  
3 votes:
dittybopper:

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yes, having women and children protest is exactly the same as using women and children as human shields in a shootout.
2014-04-15 07:49:03 AM  
3 votes:

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


That's you're defense of this farking clown?
2014-04-15 07:40:18 AM  
3 votes:

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


He's white
2014-04-15 07:27:01 AM  
3 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


A lot, actually.

Don't mistake period specific advice for general advice that always applies.
2014-04-15 07:23:25 AM  
3 votes:
Something something enemies foreign and domestic....*head scratch*  Blow the farker up.  Not ideal for a tax dodge, granted, but effective nonetheless.  The guy did not "win".  The US government isn't run by me and decided not to kill anyone.  That's not a loss.

Better idea, I guess, take all of the guy's herd, all of the property he does own in name and kick his ass out on the street.  Let him be a citizen independent of government support and trappings.
2014-04-15 07:21:30 AM  
3 votes:
They failed to study their history. Specifically the callous disregard for women and children in particular. Remember Ruby Ridge and Waco.
2014-04-15 07:11:34 AM  
3 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.


Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.
2014-04-15 12:52:28 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yeah, because this is exactly like OWS. Seriously, one of your 'scripts may have turned. Check the date...

img.fark.net
2014-04-15 12:15:17 PM  
2 votes:

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


I think we should deport them as non-citizens. I mean, if they really are sovereigns exempt from US law, that means they are illegal immigrants. Being illegal immigrants, they must be deported. I'm sure we could find somewhere to send them, some country they'd like better.
2014-04-15 12:04:36 PM  
2 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".

I don't recall anyone in OWS being armed and threatening to shoot federal employees while hiding behind women. You're a farking lunatic.


He and all of Bundy's apologists are sane. They're just evil.

Did I mention that the Nevada Constitution, which Bundy claims to acknowledge as legitimate, expressly acknowledges the legitimacy and supremacy of the federal government, and specifically condemns the acts of domestic terrorists like Cliven Bundy and his band of thug supporters?

Oh, you say I did mention that? Well I don't think it hurts to cover it again. From the Nevada Constitution:

The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

I don't know about you. But I'd personally be in favor of respecting Nevada's state sovereignty here.

By using some armed force to compel obedience to federal authority. Just like their constitution specifies.

Respect states' rights: jail the sociopath Cliven Bundy and his army of America haters NOW.
2014-04-15 11:54:21 AM  
2 votes:

neversubmit: Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.


That's a great link... Here's something that was buried pretty deeply(As in all around your quote):

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle
One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.  Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.


Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted
A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed. 
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.


Examples of Public Concerns
Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities. 
Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest. 
The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters. 
Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.


Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage
Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.


Now, onto the "Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone"...
Here it is:
blmsolar.anl.gov
http://blmsolar.anl.gov/sez/nv/dry-lake/
Now, let's look at a Google Map for "Bunkerville, NV"

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bunkerville,+­N­V/[nospam-﹫-backwards]63*7219429,-114.1 37 86,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x80cbd54ec0ad6e5f:0x353eb5bdcea1bf77

Wow, it's bordered on the North by I-15, and the West, South and East bty Lake Mead Recreational Area. I wonder where that is in relation to the "Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone"?
 Let's look at my poor skills with the Windows 7 Snipping Tool...

img.fark.net

The bottom red circle is about where 'Gold Butte' is located, and the upper red circle is where Bunkervile is. See the highlighted area? That's your 'Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone'. That's a pretty stupid place to have offsite facilities for a proposed solar plant... See all of the natural geologic barriers, as well as the lack of any real roads?

The guy has been illegally grazing his cattle for 20 years, his neighbors are pissed, the residents of Mesquite are pissed, his cows are trampling protected sites, and someone keeps illegally digging reservoirs to water these cattle.

I'm sure the feds were just DYING to place an offsite facility in a place that would take hours upon hours to get to.
2014-04-15 11:41:42 AM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.


IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.
2014-04-15 11:35:06 AM  
2 votes:

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


There should be a law making it legal to run anyone with a plate like that off the road, then beat them to death with a tire iron.
2014-04-15 11:08:24 AM  
2 votes:

reubendaley: Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?

If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?


Let me ask you something?  If someone commits welfare fraud does it bother you?   If that person gets away with it for 3 years should it no longer be considered a crime?  What about illegal immigrants?  If they've managed to live here for 3 years would you grant them green cards?  What about the state of Tennessee's failure to process rape kits?  Doe that gov't incompetence turn those rapes into non-crimes?  Your support of Bundy is just as ridiculous.  You and I and our children are the victims of Bundy's welfare fraud.  Why don't you want him to pay up?
2014-04-15 11:03:34 AM  
2 votes:

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.


...considering that they were going to round up the property that was on Federal land, without grazing rights, it is "arresting cows" but removing property that has been placed improperly.

Yeah, Bundy is going to be arrested. And he's going to have assets seized. And he's going to wail and moan about it, and he's going to be hoisted up as a "hero" to folks that don't understand that he's been engaged in illegal business practices for 20 years, and despite trying to work with him, he's just compounding his problems. The question is: how much will he cop a plea for, and what sort of deal will he work out to keep at least a piece of his farm, or will he martyr himself and his family, and some useful idiots for essentially padding his profit line?

That's the issue. Not "freedom" but a businessman who has been dealing unfairly and illegally for years, and being called on it.
2014-04-15 11:02:32 AM  
2 votes:
Danger Mouse:

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

There are but Bundy ignored all of them.    He is responsible for the escalation and created the standoff.
2014-04-15 10:25:32 AM  
2 votes:

menschenfresser: One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.


Due to work I travel to Utah and Nevada quite often. There is a tremendous number of people that side with Bundy and his militia types. Why? He's not an underdog. Bundy is a wealthy man. Most ranchers are. Given the size of his herd that's over $1million every year in income. These folks really have given up on the idea that "government by the people" works.

They are large in number. They seem to be ready, "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," one of the anti-government activists said. This right-wing movement is not going away anytime soon. Legal arguments are not going to persuade them. Telling them that the government they despise is the representative government the founding fathers assembled does not persuade them. They believe the US is ruled by despots, elections are rigged and there are millions of deadbeats, usually dark skinned, who get a free ride on a permanent basis.

It makes zero sense unless you hear how adamant the US right wing has become.
2014-04-15 10:21:45 AM  
2 votes:
I am astonished there is anyone at all defending Bundy on this. He's so blatantly in the wrong, his position is pretty much indefensible.

This thread has been a useful tool in exposing the most worthless idiots on Fark. I'm just disgusted.
2014-04-15 09:49:55 AM  
2 votes:

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions say something that contradicts their own agenda.


This isn't necessarily confirmation bias. I also was willing to ignore the source of this article, until I realized it went counter to their usual spin.

Here's an example that goes the other way: I'm pretty liberal, and voted for President Obama twice. A friend of mine on Facebook (who's also very liberal) recently posted a status complaining about how Obamacare has treated him. I was really interested to hear what he had to say, since I know he's not a knee-jerk conservative who's going to hate Obama for eating crackers. I couldn't make heads or tails of the follow-up comments, unfortunately. But I'd love to hear an honest critique of Obamacare that doesn't come from the cracker-eaters.

Liberals: evidence-based.
2014-04-15 09:47:59 AM  
2 votes:

Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?


You don't see Sean Hannity defending the patriotism of gangbangers? Your average gangbanger doesn't have 400 cows shiatting all over? Nobody on Fark gets a hard on when a gangbanger defies the law?
2014-04-15 09:35:26 AM  
2 votes:

MechaPyx: His family has been on that land for generations.


Yeah, they just wandered in one day - no government help or support at all, Hey!  Free Land!

If this is their land, then I'm sure they would be willing to deed it and pay back state and federal taxes on it, right?

The forfeited any rights they had because, like the current user, they were more than willing to take advantage of the public lands when it suited them. They sure didn't want to own it and pay taxes on it.
2014-04-15 09:30:12 AM  
2 votes:

someonelse: Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp



http://scgnews.com/bundy-ranch-what-youre-not-being-told
d56amtpp2y9sx.cloudfront.net
2014-04-15 09:28:21 AM  
2 votes:

doglover: Okay, cool beans.

I was just curious.

Having grown up in Appalachia, my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans, but with a lot less animosity. There's way too many instances of corrupt officials trying to oppress honest citizens to blindly follow where "Old Glory" leads. At the same time, I can't find a better country than the IDEAL put forth in the Constitution.

In this case in particular: Bundy's wrong on many levels and needs stopped. However the women willing to get in front of their men to prove their retarded point is inspiring to me. I wouldn't come within earshot of a three letter agency for cows, let alone ride their goons' crosshairs. As far as I'm concerned, Bundy should just lose ownership of his cows if they graze on public land. The police should come in, take 'em, and steak 'em. But I have to give mad props to the militia people for realizing they're an ant fighting a giant, ass kicking boot and adopting an actual strategy as opposed to some symbolic bullshiat.


Here's what gets me - I don't have a problem with protesting. I have no problem with taking the government to task for perceived wrongs.

I have issue with 1. Threatening to kill federal officers for taking cows. 2. Planning on making a massacre scene for pr purposes.

We have a system in place for dealing with government overreach. Yes, armed rebellion can be part of it, but it should be the last step. He hasn't availed himself of it. He hasn't gone to court, hasn't argued his case in front of a judge or a jury of his peers. He has made no effort to right this, because I think he knows he's wrong.
2014-04-15 09:26:49 AM  
2 votes:

Lee451: AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


If they've been grazing there that long, shouldn't they have put in a claim on the land? Or bought it? So basically they've been grazing on land they don't own for generations?
2014-04-15 09:19:04 AM  
2 votes:

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.


OK.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp
2014-04-15 09:17:19 AM  
2 votes:

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.



A) Nobody, not even assholes in cowboy boots, get to decide how their taxes and fees are spent. He can suck it long and suck it hard.

B) If he gave 2 shots about land rights he would pay the fees since the rightful owner of the property has the right to collect fees for use.

C) Occupy was exercising free speech, not operating a commercial for-profit venture
2014-04-15 09:15:55 AM  
2 votes:

Pick: This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.

i.imgflip.com
2014-04-15 09:15:08 AM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


No, this is a guy who's been cheating a government welfare system for 20 years an the government has finally decided to cut off his benefits and make him rely on the private market.  But since he fits the stereotypical profile of a teabagger instead of a "welfare queen", the anti-government-handout crowd is rallying behind him to ensure he can continue receiving his government freebies.

And before you go all "b-b-but libs!", liberals don't like people scamming the government for money, either.  The problem is that most conservative solutions blanketly punish everyone for the crimes of a few, which is a solution liberals oppose (the Type 1 error vs Type 2 error preference that has been suggested a lot).  This is one guy who can be singled out and dealt with without unnecessarily burdening law-abiding ranchers.
2014-04-15 09:14:01 AM  
2 votes:
Mrbogey:
Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

So, he doesn't really want to pay his money.  Your argument is silly.   If he wants to pay his money, absolutely nothing is stopping him from paying it, other than his unwillingness to pay it.
2014-04-15 08:41:49 AM  
2 votes:
Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.
2014-04-15 08:41:40 AM  
2 votes:

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


I think it's hysterical, people accusing illegal aliens of 'stealing resources' without being able to give concrete examples of what they're 'stealing' (oil?), but ignore and *cheer* for a moocher in plain view, who *ADMITS* he's a moocher, but just doesn't want to pay for what he's taken.
2014-04-15 08:38:26 AM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]


What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.
2014-04-15 08:34:33 AM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: vpb: dittybopper:

*On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.  That's why he stopped paying the fees.  On the other hand, he could have kept grazing the 1,000 head there, ignoring the restriction, and kept paying the fees, which I think would put him in arguably a better position, especially if he could point to data that showed that over the 20 years, the desert tortoise population there remained stable or increased.  So I'm not ...


I'll be honest, I haven't been following this at all, so basically he's upset that the owner of land he was LEASING changed the terms of his lease?

Well, I guess you shouldn't build a business based continually getting a "favorable" deal from the government?
2014-04-15 08:17:12 AM  
2 votes:

Deep Contact: Militia propaganda. They learned from the best.


Yep. Rules for radicals, Saul Alynski. Patton read Rommel's book also.
2014-04-15 08:01:35 AM  
2 votes:

MrBallou: I wonder what these people think GWB would have done if he were in charge.


fark-all, apparently, if this mess has been going on for 20 years.
2014-04-15 07:56:24 AM  
2 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


The blog you copied and pasted this from sucks.  Was it yours?
2014-04-15 07:54:30 AM  
2 votes:
America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?
2014-04-15 07:50:48 AM  
2 votes:
untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.

You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.

/this time, without the cat laying on the keyboard.
2014-04-15 07:48:23 AM  
2 votes:

untaken_name: Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceive


You don't see a difference between a fighter and a human shield? Interesting.
2014-04-15 07:46:08 AM  
2 votes:
I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,
2014-04-15 07:43:07 AM  
2 votes:

JohnnyC: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

I don't think they even really care about him. I think they're just looking for a fight and this was the best opportunity for one that they could find. They just wanted the authorities to shoot first so they could satisfy their itchy trigger fingers and claim that they didn't start it.


The funny thing is that I don't think most of them realize that you're not allowed to get into a gun battle with the government. No matter how patriotic you think you're being. The instances where it's not illegal to shoot a cop are pretty narrow and I don't think "because 'Murica" and "Muslim Socialist President" and "Muh Freedoms!" are going to fly in court when you're looking at multiple counts of murder and attempted murder.
2014-04-15 07:34:58 AM  
2 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2014-04-15 07:32:02 AM  
2 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.


THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?
2014-04-15 07:25:23 AM  
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.
2014-04-15 07:21:18 AM  
2 votes:
Typical gun owners.
2014-04-15 07:20:52 AM  
2 votes:

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Baloney_Detection

At a bare minimum, that's an ad hominem (you're saying the source bad, therefore the information *MUST* be bad), but you also aren't encouraging open debate, you're trying to dismiss it.

That sort of thing leads to intellectual incest.  No matter what you may think of the source, you have to consider that in any one individual case, that source may in fact be correct.

i1.ytimg.com

A simple record won't turn you into the King of England, Number One.
2014-04-15 07:18:28 AM  
2 votes:

fusillade762: So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comcdn2.hellogiggles.com

/You decide.
2014-04-15 07:16:59 AM  
2 votes:
police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.
 

does not compute.
2014-04-15 07:12:10 AM  
2 votes:
doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

The will of the American people is what has turned out to be weak.

It's pretty sad.
2014-04-15 07:09:50 AM  
2 votes:
You know if you ignore these people, they go away.
2014-04-16 09:02:45 AM  
1 votes:

LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.


What cronies? What sale? Are you talking about the solar farm that was proposed 200 miles away?
They told him to get his cattle off the land 20 years ago, when they revoked his grazing rights, after he refused to follow the rules, pay the fees, and keep his herd at a sustainable size. Three court rulings in the intervening years said the same, but instead the number of cows have increased, and they are now trespassing on land his family never had the right to use.
2014-04-16 07:29:06 AM  
1 votes:
realistrabbit:
Not if it only serves to feed into conspiracy.

Yes, let's cater our words to the ear of the conspiracy theorist and not allow a LAW maker to comment on LAW enforcement.

The BLM has said in a statement that they will continue to pursue Bundy through legal and administrative actions.

It is not over.
2014-04-15 10:49:04 PM  
1 votes:

patrick767: Baz744:
Sorry to rain on your anti-America propaganda, but "free speech zones" are erected to protect First Amendment rights in situations where the potential for violence calls for heavy law enforcement to preserve order.

Riiight. You are literally the first person I have ever seen defend the "free speech zones". It's funny how sometimes these free speech zones are many blocks away from the actual event. It conveniently puts protesters in a place where the vast majority of attendees and especially the media covering the event won't see or hear them unless they go well out of their way.


Well, if it helps, I agree with Baz744, and I gave a longer explanation of why in an earlier Fark thread, so now  you know of two people who defend the "free speech zones."  I'm not delighted with them, but they are a necessary evil.  As for what else you said, I agree with you that they can be, and are, abused for the convenience of the government.  But getting rid of them altogether would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, as the saying goes.  Better instead to have regulations that require them to be big enough, and close enough, so that government agencies can't abuse them the way you describe.
2014-04-15 09:48:32 PM  
1 votes:

Ex-Texan: Do it russian style. Send in some Comanches, pick up the militia member parts with tweezers. The parts you can find, anyway. Make no apologies, move on.  Send that schmuck a bill from the gubmint if for anything else, being a grandstaning asshole.
Hope they have a BBQ, and chat=rge him, serving cattle the BLM took from him.


Why?  Why NOT wait and arrest him later?  It's been 20 years, you think 20 more days is unacceptable?  Or do you just like the idea of killing derpy people that much?  Let me warn you, if we try to kill every derper on the planet, even the combined US Armed Forces will run out of ammunition eventually.
2014-04-15 07:44:29 PM  
1 votes:

SpacePirate: So we should start deporting illegals too, correct?


Stop lying.
2014-04-15 06:01:48 PM  
1 votes:

realistrabbit: lets, at least be honest. This was a comment from one guy, from one militia (or maybe not even), giving his ignorant thoughts. This does not mean he represents the protesters or the militia in or the Bundy family. As much fun as it is to jump on the bandwagon bashing the wingnuts, let us at least be realistic.

Let's take a look at the bigger picture.

First of all, I don't believe for a minute that all this is about an endangered turttle. that is plain old bullocks. I mean really, heavily armed federal agents to protect a turttle that has lived alongside these cattle for well over a century? come on, my 13yr old can come up with better excuses than that!

Second, if this is about BLM land fees, why did it happen now? why wait 20yrs? I know the courts are slow, but not that slow. If I don't pay my taxes you can bet it won't take 20yrs for them to take everything I own.

Third, Senator Reid, I know there have been some theories thrown around accusing him with faulty logic, but why is he throwing his two cents into the ring, claiming "it's not over"? Is he just trying to cause trouble? Doesn't he realize he's not law enforcement, he's not the governer, and it's none of his business?


I don't claim to know what is going on out there, but I sure as fark don't believe the story we are being fed by the media, the government, or the Bundy's/supporters.

I've noticed a very real correlation between those who uncritically accept looney conspiracy theories, and people who don't seem to understand the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The words are not synonyms.
2014-04-15 05:08:07 PM  
1 votes:

SpacePirate: Click this link if you're genuinely curious about what's happening to Nevada's ranchers.


Oh, I have extended family that ranches and I know these issues all to well.   If you want another story to get your blood boiling on how bad some of these environmental groups can be, you can read this one.

Again, I agree that Bundy here is on the wrong side of the law, and I am hopeful that they can find a way to work things out.  Now with the spotlight on both sides maybe they will be willing to find a way to make an agreement actually work.
2014-04-15 04:36:09 PM  
1 votes:

SpacePirate: So we should start deporting illegals too, correct?


When did we stop?
2014-04-15 04:28:18 PM  
1 votes:

someonelse: ourbigdumbmouth: I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Well, that would be surprising. Who is genuinely calling for this?


The voices in his head.
2014-04-15 03:29:36 PM  
1 votes:

grumpfuff: Oh, as to falsified charges, you'd have to be a bit more specific


Obviously, he is talking about the ATF weapons charge (regarding the sawed off shotguns) where he was acquitted.  Please read my link up there if you don't know the background.
2014-04-15 03:10:45 PM  
1 votes:

patrick767: It seems to me that the primary security dangers at these events have jack all to do with people speaking. If people start getting violent in any way, then by all means, arrest them and remove them from the area. In your presidential debate example, if someone is agitating for violence against the president, they are breaking the law. Arrest them.


How do you think they can pull one person out of a mob of people all armed?  Do you really think stupid people in numbers with guns are rational?  You try and somone gets frisky and strikes an officier and it all snowballs into a clusterfark of people getting shot.
2014-04-15 02:44:25 PM  
1 votes:
I haven't read through all 568 comments, just scanned through for pictures. TFA mentions Bundy and putting women in front, and I've seen ONE picture each of Al, Peg, and Kelly.  Maybe I missed it, but just in case, I'll put this here because it must be done:
www.klartextsatire.de

/can't believe there aren't more pics of Kelly in bikini. sadness ensues. My Fark, my Fark, why hast thou forsaken me?
2014-04-15 02:36:03 PM  
1 votes:

thaylin: From what I have read in the short period there are little parallels, other than it is the government. In one case it was an incorrect court appearance, in the latter it is someone who has lost 2 court cases already.. The only parallels I see is that it involves crazies are not the government


Read that court case article with a mind to the parallels (it is a good refresher and pretty non-biased of the events of this cluster).  You are right the background is different, but look for the reaction of the right wing crazies and the political motivations of the government.
2014-04-15 02:33:03 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: Baz744: She voluntarily participated in a standoff against LEOs who had surrounded her house and called for her surrender. She voluntarily endangered her own children. She and she alone is responsible for what happened.

So the sniper that shot her had no culpability?  If so, why did the government settlement give the Weavers a few million dollars?


settlements do not imply guilt dude, settlements typically happen if the POTENTIAL COST outweighs the settlement. According to what I read by the sniper he did not see her.
2014-04-15 02:20:56 PM  
1 votes:

Baz744: It downplays or obfuscates every fact that makes Weaver look bad,


Then go back and look at the court case.  The problem with that is the government even looks more incompetent.

No doubt that Randy Weaver was an unsavory character, however, that does not excuse the government and how they found out a way to take a failed blackmail attempt and turn it into an incident of epic proportions.
2014-04-15 02:04:14 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: thaylin: I was refuting that statement not previous statements

So you are trying to nitpick a statement, even though you know full well the context of my argument?

Seriously?  Then go away mosquito.


It is not nitpicking. You changed thoughts, it was related to the original though, but still an independent thought.. Your new thought was incorrect.
2014-04-15 02:01:46 PM  
1 votes:

thaylin: I was refuting that statement not previous statements


So you are trying to nitpick a statement, even though you know full well the context of my argument?

Seriously?  Then go away mosquito.
2014-04-15 01:52:47 PM  
1 votes:

thaylin: When someone is shooting at you, as a police officer, you dont wait for a court to find someone guilty of shooting at you, you defend yourself, or you end up dead.


truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com

Maybe that's the problem.
2014-04-15 01:49:47 PM  
1 votes:

ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.


Occupy protestors: Frustrated (Among other things) that banks were allowed to socialize the costs/risks of their business,while keeping the profits to themselves.

This guy: Pissed that the government is trying to keep him from socializing the costs of his business (Grazing on public lands without paying) while keeping the profit to himself.

Yes. You're right.They're TOTALLY the same.
2014-04-15 01:37:05 PM  
1 votes:

thaylin: If they will not come in peacefully sure, what is the other option?


Maybe bring them in in a not-so-peaceful manner?  Do we default to shooting or bombing any gang-bangers, murderers, thieves or any other violent criminals just because they don't want to come in peacefully?
2014-04-15 01:25:04 PM  
1 votes:

grumpfuff: Prank Call of Cthulhu: ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.

Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.

Dropping a few bombs on them turns them into martyrs.


So what? Ooooh, martyrs, booga-booga. I don't think letting the spoiled little children have their way is a workable solution.
2014-04-15 01:20:10 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: grumpfuff: It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"

You are right,  they didn't run anywhere.  They shot her from a hidden sniper position from several hundred yards away without any warning, let alone any provocation.

After they knew that they killed here they then taunted the family with "Did you sleep well last night, Vicki?" and "Show us the baby, Vicki? We had pancakes," over the loudspeakers.

Very classy as you can plainly  see.....


Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already. Also, from what I recall, the shot that killed Vicki had actually been fired at someone else, and hit him first before hitting Vicki.

Trying to act like Vicki was blameless is also silly, as she had fired shots at the feds as well.

As to the loudspeaker bit, the only place I've ever heard that is conspiracy sites.
2014-04-15 01:05:37 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.

Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.


She was obviously threatening the sniper by brandishing that baby.
2014-04-15 01:04:11 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Breeze: hat we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens.


Sorry to rain on your anti-America propaganda, but "free speech zones" are erected to protect First Amendment rights in situations where the potential for violence calls for heavy law enforcement to preserve order.

In a United States presidential debate, for example, the sitting US president and his challenger appear in the same location at the same time, often with other assorted bigwhigs in the general area. By necessity, the attractiveness of this target to America's enemies--foreign and domestic--calls for intense security. Multiply that by the intense feelings and large crowds these events tend to engender, and you get a "spark in the tinderbox" situation, with a serious potential of a lot of people getting hurt.

Despite the sinister connotations both those on the left and more recently (out of convenience) those on the right give to the term, the simple reality is that free speech zones enable safe and orderly speech activities to take place in environments where the government has a sufficiently compelling interest in security and order to arguably justify temporarily and in a limited area suppressing speech altogether.

You can conclusively demonstrate your stupidity or dishonesty by arguing that a situation where persons are showing up with guns to resist the lawful execution of federal prerogatives holds no potential for violence.

Or you can acknowledge that reality, and then ask yourself why federal authorities, who for perfectly legitimate reasons (physical protection of themselves and civilians) need to preserve an orderly environment, might want to designate an area where those who arrive to engage in legitimate (if misguided) 1st Amendment activities can do so safely, without any risk of being confused for one of the domestic terrorists roaming the hills, abusing K-9 units, and pointing sniper rifles at LEOs.
2014-04-15 12:57:38 PM  
1 votes:

ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.


I missed the part where the Occupy movement armed themselves and threatened to shoot federal officers doing their job.
2014-04-15 12:50:21 PM  
1 votes:
Bunny ranch militia:

3.bp.blogspot.com
2014-04-15 12:47:50 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Except that there are differences in response-
1. One group is an NRA and gun loving crowd while the other were peaceful unarmed protesters
2. The unarmed group was beaten, pepper sprayed, maced, tased...
3. OWS was protesting things like inequality and the lack of reprisal on the Wall Street crooks, the other groups is defending a thief
4. The Thief defending groups is all white, while there were definitely brownish hued folks in OWS groups...

hmmm, important elements, yet while one group was beaten and otherwise abused while peacefully protesting in the manner allowed in the constitution, the other group was hardly advanced on in a similar manner, did not face nearly the physical abuse of the OWS protestors...   funny, one group actually had an honorable protest and were beaten and abused yet I would bet that everyone of the Bundy luvvin crowd hated the OWS protests, thought they all deserved every spray, every baton to the head and so on...  because...
2014-04-15 12:29:28 PM  
1 votes:

ciberido: On the plus side, there have been several people for whom I hold more respect than than I did before this whole Bundy thing hit Fark. Mainly people whom I had marked down as right wing nutjobs who have demonstrated that, while their politics may differ greatly from mine, are not the complete idiots I had feared they were.


Unless, however, they're running the OTHER troll accounts and want to build up the cred of their OTHER troll accounts by not being TOTALLY insane.
2014-04-15 12:25:28 PM  
1 votes:

thaylin: You state the argument, then twist the argument. It is not up to the people to determine if they believe the action was legal or not, that is for the courts to decide, otherwise every single statement like this has an easy way out for everyone.


There is another problem:

The leader of this... "resistance movement" claims to acknowledge the legitimacy of Nevada's constitution. But that constitution expressly vests the power of dispute resolution with the United States Supreme Court, and by necessary implication, lower United States courts. Those courts have spoken here.

The simple fact is, neither Cliven Bundy nor his gang of thugs recognize any law whatsoever except their own. They're just sociopaths. Everyone who showed up with a gun to protect this "man" should be disarmed for life.

You hear that purple? Nevada's constitutional "paramount allegiance" clause means Bundy and his supporters can't even frame a good faith argument for the righteousness of their cause. They are lawless thug criminals. Nothing more.
2014-04-15 12:25:02 PM  
1 votes:

Mikey1969: They don't need this guy's goddamn "land", there are a billion better places in Nevada to build this plant, and the state is 81% federal land


No one is taking this guys land.  Are you sure you're in the right thread?  The reason I ask is that you seem to be talking about an entirely different series of events.

grumpfuff: dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.


I'm sure that if one of dittybopper's neighbors came up and told them they had a written plan to rape his mother, had all the items already in a bag ready to go, but decided against it, I'm sure he'd be fine with it.
2014-04-15 11:55:28 AM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]


"My original argument got shredded to pieces, so now I'm going to post a non-sequitor straw man with pictures"
2014-04-15 11:50:22 AM  
1 votes:
This needs to be mentioned again:

Cliven Bundy says he acknowledges Nevada law, but not federal law. But Nevada law expressly acknowledges the supremacy of federal law, and condemns the conduct of domestic terrorists like Cliven Bundy.

Will this reality impact the behavior of Cliven Bundy or his band of gun toting thugs? Don't count on it. Cliven Bundy and his supporters are nothing more than sociopaths. Bundy's refusal to surrender despite this clause conclusively proves he acknowledges no law whatsoever. He's just a self-entitled criminal with a moderately advanced knowledge of PR tactics.

I hope this "man" dies in the deepest darkest loneliest pit at ADX Florence.

From the Nevada Constitution:

All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.
2014-04-15 11:42:34 AM  
1 votes:

grumpfuff: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

Well, you do say a lot of stupid shiat, so I'm not surprised you'd say that too.


I know that I don't speak for most of us, but destruction of lands held in the public trust by illegal activities is pretty frowned on around here.
2014-04-15 11:42:30 AM  
1 votes:

thaylin: neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.

No, the most unsettling aspect of this is the low level of intellect required to accept the conspiracy that you keep trying to claim is going on.


Well, there is perhaps a little conspiracy going on. After 20 years of this crap, you'd think that someone might have gone after this asshat a bit earlier. I don't think that the timing is so much of a particular issue, as someone finally got fed up with his BS and decided to finally call him on it. Someone has been covering for his ass for a while, and now that they're gone, things are steamrolling ahead.
2014-04-15 11:39:40 AM  
1 votes:
Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]


Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.

http://www.reform-america.net/politics072108.html

www.thorninpaw.com
2014-04-15 11:36:45 AM  
1 votes:

Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,


Well, you do say a lot of stupid shiat, so I'm not surprised you'd say that too.
2014-04-15 11:34:24 AM  
1 votes:
LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deals.

It doesn't matter if it's KBR or Al Jazeerah or Solara or Enron.

The longer people keep buying into the "sides" argument, the longer those running "the show" can keep doing whatever the hell they want.

When the Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party people wake up and understand they've been played from the start and they're actually against the same thing:  people abusing the system.

The only "side" that should matter is whether you have a government that represents the people and not its own buddies and self sustainment.


You understand incorrectly. The opposite of the bolded bit is correct. The rancher has lost every court case. The government has finally had to remove the cows; hell, this is the nicest they could be. They didn't arrest him, they're just doing the animal equivalent of towing an illegally parked car.
2014-04-15 11:31:36 AM  
1 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.


You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.
2014-04-15 11:30:22 AM  
1 votes:
The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.
2014-04-15 11:13:38 AM  
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.




They wanted some exemplary boot kissing to keep the plebs in line.
The intimidation tactics quickly backfired tho, as the situation looked to escalate out of control.

It should never have gone this far to begin with.
BLM has confused itself with a paramilitary organization and it's got no ability to contain this mess. They could probably have negotiated a way out if this for less than the cost of their swat teams overtime.
....Or just ignored it. There is no reason to rush.

/we ignore congress, we can overlook a few ranchers.
2014-04-15 11:12:09 AM  
1 votes:
As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deals.

It doesn't matter if it's KBR or Al Jazeerah or Solara or Enron.

The longer people keep buying into the "sides" argument, the longer those running "the show" can keep doing whatever the hell they want.

When the Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party people wake up and understand they've been played from the start and they're actually against the same thing:  people abusing the system.

The only "side" that should matter is whether you have a government that represents the people and not its own buddies and self sustainment.
2014-04-15 11:11:48 AM  
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: notto: Danger Mouse:

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

There are but Bundy ignored all of them.    He is responsible for the escalation and created the standoff.

Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?


Confiscation of property is sort of the next step. And in fairness, it's long overdue at this point. It is EXACTLY like taking a car to an impound yard. He has been parking his cows on Federal land for a long ass while, and unlike the car which is just taking up space, the cows have been impacting Federal lands and operations of Federal lands for some time, and without license. He could have paid for his grazing rights, and been fine, but instead, he's created his own mythos of the Brave Pioneer, despite the fact that he's a cattleman who's been using Federal lands to fatten his cattle, as opposed to using his own lands. He's been mooching for some time, and now that the bill comes due, and with interest, NOW he's upset because he doesn't like the tune--but he's been dancing for some time now, hasn't he?
2014-04-15 11:10:51 AM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: TuteTibiImperes: The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.

Good ol' confirmation bias. They're not trustworthy unless they agree with your preconceived notions. Interesting. Besides, I keep hearing how women shouldn't be kept from front-line combat. TheBlaze is just less misogynistic than you are, with your assumptions that women would obviously be worse at gunfighting than men. Sexist.


FTA:  "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

Yep, sounds to me like they're putting the women up front because they're just as good at gun fighting as men, and not to exploit them in any way.
2014-04-15 11:10:48 AM  
1 votes:
Danger Mouse:

Why wouldn't you arrest Bundy? Trying to conficaste the cattle seems...dumb. It's not like repossessing a car.

wouldn't you arrange a court date, if he doesn't show, then a warrent is issued? This seems like a farked up way to handle non payment of taxes, no?


They are removing cattle from federal land land - it's more like towing a car that has been parked overnight on a public street illegally.

This isn't just a  tax issue.    You can't graze your cattle in the public square.  They will be removed.

Do you think that you would have the right to just go ahead and start grazing cattle on any public property you wish?  If you did, would that just be a tax issue?

You seem to be building a strawman to knock down.  You seem to be the only one who considers this a tax issue.  Even Bundy doesn't believe it is.
2014-04-15 11:09:50 AM  
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?


Do you ask a repo man why he's arresting your truck when you're not paying for it?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

If there were, this would already be resolved. Instead, he's being a terrorist-level dick about it, and I think he needs to be treated accordingly.
2014-04-15 11:09:16 AM  
1 votes:

Sgt Otter: jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

[crasstalk.com image 500x267]

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.


This has been mentioned before, but it still amazes me; it's as though they think those words are magic spells. Say the right words in the right order, and they have to let you go. It's like a Jedi mind trick. They go to these conferences, and they are taught this nonsense, and they believe it. You wonder if they genuinely believe that stepping on a crack will break their mother's back.
2014-04-15 11:07:01 AM  
1 votes:
So for Bundy and other rich guys, a freebie for twenty years is entitlement. For poor people, a freebie for twenty years is called a gov'ment hand out.  Did I miss something?
2014-04-15 11:04:15 AM  
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.




Problem: cattle that do not belong there are on federal land managed by the BLM, and the owner will not remove them himself. Solution: remove them, and sell them off to recoup as much of the costs of the operation as possible.
The only fly in the ointment was the interference of a large group of loathsome morons. Since killing them would have been very bad PR, and would likely have involved some local sheriffs deputies and other LEOs also being killed or wounded, the operation was wisely called off. But Senator Reid is quite right, this is not over.
2014-04-15 10:59:34 AM  
1 votes:

dr_blasto: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

Why? The DOD was the DOW at one point. Land administration has been performed by the federal government since there was a federal government, part of that was the homestead acts that gave freeloaders like this douchenozzle their land in the first place. He didn't pay for shiat, his  family didn't pay for anything and he's exceeded his own resources rather than living in his means. Perhaps he should have purchased more land if this was super important.

Can I just wander onto federal land and put up no trespassing signs and turn it into a dirt bike park? It is shiatbags like this that string wire across trails, put up "no trespassing" signs on public land and work to prevent access for others to public land. The West is full of them and they can all suck it.


That's the important part... Somebody pointed out that this dude's ranch is also 160 acres, which was the amount given away in he Homestead Act, by the federal government...

FWIW, I don't consider the homesteaders to be "freeloaders", it was an incentive to populate the expanded West. Grazing on public lands, and refusing to pay the (literally) dirt cheap rates, IS freeloading, though.

As a kid, I didn't see problems with people fencing off federal lands. There were fences to keep the cattle in, but they all had unlocked gates where the roads were, and full access. That's acceptable to me. And this was in Idaho, which has a warm nutty flavor at the best of times...
2014-04-15 10:57:26 AM  
1 votes:
jntaylor63:

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I've seen a few Sovereign Citizens driving around on interstate highways or other publicly-funded roads with home-made "Private Use: Government Exempt" license plates.

crasstalk.com

It's not mooching when it's a white conservative, I guess.
2014-04-15 10:50:37 AM  
1 votes:

Felgraf: way south: Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.

It took two decades to get to this point.

Exactly how much patience should they have?

Should people just not have to follow laws they don't feel like following?


If you and I let someone continue to take advantage of us, we eventually lose our right to compensation. I still don't know whether Bundy was a tenant or a trespasser but unlike the BLM, private citizens lose the right to seek damages after a period of time (Statute of Limitations, typically 3 years). If Bundy had done the same thing to another private landowner, I doubt that the private citizen would have stood by idly like the BLM appears to have done. So while Bundy may be in the wrong, this seems to be yet another example of government ineptitude. If Bundy was in violation of BLM rules, whose job was it to know it, whose job was it to deal with it once it was known or should have been known, and why didn't they do their job? If I don't do my job I don't have a job. If government is going to undertake to do a job, shouldn't they be held to the same standards as the citizens?
2014-04-15 10:47:26 AM  
1 votes:
TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: 
I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

There's a difference between being arrested for "taking pictures", and "being arrested for trespassing in a closed area".

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.


From this thread, it sounds like he's been to court numerous times, but there comes a point where someone just keeps ignoring the court, and politely worded letters, and the executive branch of government is called in to enforce the actions of the judicial branch (else there would be no reason to bother having court orders!)
2014-04-15 10:41:52 AM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Would you agree, then, that a system should be set in place where these people can pay taxes? Maybe give them a card of some sort, where they can work legally and then pay income and payroll taxes on their labor?


Actually we should encourage more illegal immigrants because they use a fake SS card so they pay in taxes but they get no benefits back.  The people we need to be mad at are farmers and rich people for hiring people and paying them under the table.
2014-04-15 10:40:54 AM  
1 votes:
"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front," Mack said in a Fox News clip pulled by The Blaze. "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

Yet so far, THIS is the ony person I've seen with a drawn gun...

img.fark.net

Also, I was just watching the "video the feds don't want you to see", and the federal officer spent half of the video trying to get these shiatheads to stand the fark back so that they could release the goddam cows. He said it over and over, and the stupid militia farks kept yelling back at him that they weren't going anywhere... You get that, morons, you're getting what you want, but you can't farking pay attention. I also like how the people on camera were making fun of the feds and their "big guns", how they must 'feel like men' because they have them. What a bunch of half-wits. Where IS the other half?

http://benswann.com/the-bundy-ranch-video-facebook-wont-let-you-see/

I'm only posting this stupid article about the video, rather than a straight link to the video because they bury the update at the bottom and don't even list it as an "update". The whole farking article is about how hard it is to be a conservative on FB. THEN they add this:


It appears as though this happened to multiple non-related videos this afternoon. The situation now seems to be resolved and users are able to post the video once again directly to their walls.
2014-04-15 10:38:51 AM  
1 votes:

notto: MechaPyx: His family has been on that land for generations.

Yeah, they just wandered in one day - no government help or support at all, Hey!  Free Land!

If this is their land, then I'm sure they would be willing to deed it and pay back state and federal taxes on it, right?

The forfeited any rights they had because, like the current user, they were more than willing to take advantage of the public lands when it suited them. They sure didn't want to own it and pay taxes on it.


They've been there long enough his original ancestor might have done exactly that....wandered in and laid claim to it. I'm guessing they would have had more freedom to free range cattle back then. Not nearly as many neighbors around to kick up a fuss about it. Could be he's used to doing things the way his family has always done it and this little stand-off is a result of the friction between his stubborn views and reality....or he could just be an asshole. Maybe both.

Not saying he's right but I have some sympathy for his situation in part because the government can be slimy little weasels when it comes to property rights.
2014-04-15 10:34:25 AM  
1 votes:

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.

I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.

BLM has been the level-headed ones. This has been on-going for twenty years.


And for all the caterwauling by this cowboy welfare queen  and his deranged supporters, not a single shot has been fired by the feds.
2014-04-15 10:30:40 AM  
1 votes:

TheGogmagog: gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.

I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.


BLM has been the level-headed ones. This has been on-going for twenty years.
2014-04-15 10:25:38 AM  
1 votes:

gravy chugging cretin.: TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.


I cut the bits about the sister being pushed to the ground, and the son's liver damage from being stomped on.  The fact he was arrested for taking pictures and his camera was confiscated seems to be a pretty binary detail, either it did happen or it didn't and would be backed up with the police report.  I'll take his word on that one.

From reading this thread and two articles on the subject, I'm less inclined to support Bundy's claim to the land.  I tend to stay out of land wars as a general rule.  I don't know where the escelation began but both Bundy's agressiveness and the police action seem over the top.  Of the two I'm more outraged by the apparent abuse of power.

They should be the level headed ones, document how Bundy is wrong, charge him and/or take him to court and follow the process.

I think this situation is better compared to the 'soverign citizen meets tazer' video.  The security guy shouldn't have been so quick on the trigger, but the soverign citizen guy was clearly an asshat who wasn't going to stop.
2014-04-15 10:20:36 AM  
1 votes:
Cliven Bundy's cattle will be taken into custody at a minimal monetary expenditure. Total operation cost: 134 thousand credits under budget. Congratulations. Be efficient, be happy.
www.microscopics.co.uk
2014-04-15 10:14:59 AM  
1 votes:
Bundy and those who opposed the BLM doing what they are authorized to do should be charged with sedition.

18 US Code 2384: Seditious Conspiracy:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384">http://www.law.corne ll.edu/uscode/text/18/2384

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
2014-04-15 10:06:01 AM  
1 votes:

menschenfresser: One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.


I think it has to do with the fact that the federal government no longer backs the rights of white, christian men over everyone else.
2014-04-15 10:03:31 AM  
1 votes:
This thread gave me cancer.
2014-04-15 10:00:27 AM  
1 votes:

Truther: /in this case, I don't think threatening federal officials with guns was smart
//but one of the reasons the founding fathers wanted the right to bear arms was to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical
///these folks believe that the government was being tyrannical with the excessive show of force


And Richard Chase killed people and drank their blood because "he needed to prevent Nazis from turning his blood into powder via poison they had planted beneath his soap dish."  His delusions didn't make his actions less criminal.

And yes, thinking that you need to be ready to violently overthrow the US government because tyranny is coming ANY SECOND is just about the same level of crazy as thinking you can drink other people's blood to counteract poison Nazis planted beneath your soap dish.

Anti-psychosis medication would do these folks a lot more good than firearms.
2014-04-15 09:59:45 AM  
1 votes:

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


Was George Washington a founding father? I kinda think so. You know what happened when a pack of militia loons decided to defy federal authority and not pay the Whiskey Tax? The founders experienced a weak federal government subservient to the states under the Articles of Confederation AND GOT RID OF IT.
2014-04-15 09:57:49 AM  
1 votes:
TheGogmagog: I had been ignoiring the situation, but thought it was time to brush up on it.  I don't have an opinion on rancher's use of federal lands without further investigation.

"Bundy's son, Dave, was arrested for taking pictures along State Route 170, which had been closed, and his camera was confiscated Bundy says."

/Shiat just got real.
2014-04-15 09:52:56 AM  
1 votes:
One thing I've noticed and wondered about regarding conservative types in general - from the "limited government" sane ones through to the wackadoo militia types we have here - is, why do they hate government no matter what it does? Isn't the whole idea of a democratic republic to have a government formed by the people themselves? Why would they hate that? Do they think they themselves are awful at governing or something? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that this republic setup was put together by the people they revere the most: the holy Founding Fathers (blessed be their names). This is the exact government set up by their heroes and yet, just the mention of the word "government" induces grumbles and eye rolls from them. Do they want no government at all?

My opinion is that conservatives still view this bogeyman "government" as if it were the fictional "tyrannical" British colonial government that the Founding Fathers (blessed be their names) toppled. But the government we have now isn't that at all; it's the one set up by the people who toppled and replaced that. It just makes zero sense.
2014-04-15 09:47:27 AM  
1 votes:

IlGreven: Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something.

No, no it shouldn't. If the owner of your apartment building changes hands, you can't get out of paying rent because you were there before the current owner owned the place.


I think Management Company might be more appropriate then owner in this case.  Ownership has not changed, just some of the management mechanisms.  (no smoking in the lobby?  i'ma stop paying my rents.)
2014-04-15 09:45:47 AM  
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Senator Harry Reid's son, Rory Reid (try saying that name ten times as fast as you can), is the primary representative for ENN energy group, a Chinese energy company involved in a $5 billion solar project planned for Clark County Nevada, on the on land where the Bundy ranch is located. First source: Reuters: Aug 31, 2012. Well this is interesting. It turns out that the conflicts of interest in this project were well documented, but Harry pushed it through anyway. He pushed it through in spite of the controversy that was stirred up when the land was sold to ENN for $4.5 million dollars even though separate appraisals valued the land at between $29.6 million and $38.6 million.


This has been debunked by everybody.... EVEN BY FOX NEWS. The solar deal in question has nothing to do with the land that's associated with this standoff.

Like always, there is a grain of truth in it (Like Obama really was born in Hawaii, but McCain really was born in Panama). There was/is a deal with a solar company that Reid's son is involved with, but it's in a completely different part of the state, and they don't have any more access/rights to Federal land than Bundy does.
2014-04-15 09:43:11 AM  
1 votes:

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


Small Government! Big Government!

s2.quickmeme.com
2014-04-15 09:40:51 AM  
1 votes:

Brick-House: You libs really ought to read a little history and see that the founding fathers wanted a Federal Government with LIMITED POWERS leaving matters like this to the states.


The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
2014-04-15 09:31:23 AM  
1 votes:
Cold_Sassy:

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

Holy sh#tballs. I've been assured by Drew that there are no racists on Fark.com, it's only people with different opinions and furthermore comma
2014-04-15 09:28:41 AM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: Mrbogey: The best part of all of this is watching the "99%" Occupy supporters ready to kill someone who won't pay money to a group of select folks who used the past fees to run the people off their land.And the Left in America wonders why Right wingers want guns. All their talk of peace and human rights is akin to smiling at and sweet talking a dog till you get a big enough rock to smash its head in.

Except the land in question isn't 'their' land. It's the US Government's land. You're cheering for an asshole who decided to stop paying rent. A deadbeat.


Technically this all Native American land and we should be paying THEM rent.
But I digress. The government makes up whatever rules they want and act like absolute jerks most of the time. His family has been on that land for generations. Then the feds come along and start tacking on fees and screwing with them. I wouldn't feel particularly cooperative either.
2014-04-15 09:28:33 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?

No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.


When bouncing, the worst fights to break up were when women were involved.

Men? We have off switches. We have been inculcated with social dominance cues most of our lives, and we play by a particular set of rules. Mostly. And when those rules are broken, there's a fairly predictable set of responses to the breaking of those rules, which are likewise set up by years of conditioning. Women? They don't have those same cues. Women fighting, it's a whole different thing, because where a man will see he's beat, and settle down, a woman will get more and more desperate, and that's natural, but it's absolutely no fun to deal with on the floor. Where a man will stand down, a woman will ramp things up. When stepping in to break up a fight with women, you also have to deal with menfolk who suddenly get courage to "stand up" for their ladies, where they weren't doing jack or sh*t to stop the fight in the first place, no matter if it was threatening to escalate, and that brought its own headaches.
2014-04-15 09:27:40 AM  
1 votes:

Lee451: His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.


Even before the BLM existed the land was still owned by the Government. Are you saying that the Government isn't allowed to change the rules for using their own land?
2014-04-15 09:25:08 AM  
1 votes:
For the record I'd like to state that I'm NOT for Occupy supporters going out armed and acting badly like these hypocrites are, I was just expressing my frustration over what I perceive to be the coddling and enabling of truly bad behavior while violently cracking down on legitimate protest.
2014-04-15 09:22:46 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: my opinion of the US government is very similar to one the Picts might have had of the Romans

How long have you had that one in the chamber Captain Fedora?
2014-04-15 09:22:39 AM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.


Yeah, well, guess what? If I pay my rent to my dentist because I think my landlord's an asshole, HE CAN STILL EVICT ME.

Danger Mouse: However the Feds sending in armed rangers, helicopters and seizing the cattle seemed a bit of overreach, no? Esp. so when they had no one to take the cattle and it looked like the cattle would be harmed.


They seized cattle that was on their lands. If I park my car on your front lawn, am I allowed to come and threaten to shoot you/the tow truck if you have it towed?
2014-04-15 09:22:13 AM  
1 votes:

Muta: There's a 1000 people standing out in the desert supporting this free loader?  Don't these people have jobs?


I would estimate between 70-80% of them are social security disability for health issues directly related to being obese.
2014-04-15 09:20:18 AM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


So explain to me why I should support these guys?  It looks to me like Bundy's been illegally using government land for years without paying rent. Why do you support him?
2014-04-15 09:19:05 AM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So he wants to "pay his money", but on his own terms? That's not how it works.

What is "unfair" about this? Truly, I haven't been following this at all - tell me, how is the government treating him unfairly? How are they treating him differently than other ranchers out west? What have they done to him that most other ranchers don't have to deal with?
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM  
1 votes:

AdamK: Lee451: I still say that if Bundy had been growing illegal marijuana on public land Fark would have an apoplectic fit from the self-righteous indignation,

nah a lot of people would say he's an idiot for growing pot on public property

just because you're a moron doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want


His family grazing there before BLM came into existence should account for something. These threads have shown me that Farkers are more pro-authority than anyone imagined.
2014-04-15 09:18:25 AM  
1 votes:

Miss Alexandra: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]

What part of "government OF, BY, and FOR the people" don't people get?

This just cracks me up, people accusing Cliven Bundy of "stealing" from the government...yet don't mind illegal aliens flocking over here and stealing everyone's resources.


WTF do illegal aliens have to do with this?

Do your right-wing sensibilities tell you that when some asshole cheats the welfare system that they're rockin' it OF, BY and FOR the people? That's what this little shiat-for-brains rancher is doing. The difference being, nobody cares if the government swoops in and arrests the welfare cheat. But one stupid rancher? OMG! FASCISM!
2014-04-15 09:18:00 AM  
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: Cattle farmers and ranchers lease non-BLM pasture all the time and they pay a hell of a lot more in fees on the private market than they would to the BLM. This crazy farker is just an asshole with boots, not to mention a criminal.


Pretty damn much. He's not a hero, he's just a moocher who is mad that he can't skew his business model with what he thinks of as an entitlement, which gives him a competitive edge for his business. Slap him with fines, fines, fines, and if they are enough, put a lien on the property for it, and call it good, and then when he comes to court, arrest his ass for the rest of the charges. He's not a hero, he's just an asshat looking for his handout.
2014-04-15 09:15:57 AM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits

Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.


So can we see the difference between unarmed civil disobedience and being arrested for your beliefs, and armed insurrection and threatening a federal officer?

Maybe we can get you a coloring book. With small words.
2014-04-15 09:15:07 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


So.... Occupy Wall Street was gearing up for a shooting match?
2014-04-15 09:12:09 AM  
1 votes:
This is a plot by Harry Reid to increase his family's wealth, by kicking Bundy off land his family has used for generations. Google it.
2014-04-15 09:12:04 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.


No it isn't. Public opinion is fickle. You think these people will gather again next month and monthly if need be to defend this dudes cattle?

He will lose, not through one cut, but thousands of tiny ones.

The way to win is the courts. That's how the guy from Ruby Ridge won. Not by getting into a shootout that got his family killed. But by going to the courts after he put his weapons down.
2014-04-15 09:10:27 AM  
1 votes:

notto: argument against Bundy is very consistent with the Occupy arguments against banks.  Bundy wants to make the risk public by grazing public lands without paying fees or without limits or oversight while making the profits private.  You are paying for the services this well off businessman is using without seeing any of the profits


Except that's not the case. Bundy wants to pay his money. He just won't pay it to BLM. He wants the govt to stop using his money against his interests.

When Occupy was defended for taking over public land, the response was "that's what civil disobedience is". Yet here we are with the same folks outraged that someone is breaking the rules until the rules treat him fairly.
2014-04-15 09:03:39 AM  
1 votes:

neomunk: Actually, he's got a slice of a point in there buried under all that stupid.  If Occupy supporters had come out armed and threatening to kill the cops that were confronting them maybe they would have been given a modicum of respect by the people who were so ready to crush them with violence.


...from a media that's owned by the very corporations they're protesting? There's no way they're going to paint that as a success, even if it were successful. Didn't matter what they did; if they'd've done the exact same thing the Tea Partiers did, they'd be labeled copycats.
2014-04-15 09:01:11 AM  
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Who?

The Blaze?

way south: Blm needs to put its guns and body armor back in the locker and look for more negotiable alternatives for sharing the land. Even if it means having extreme patience and suffering the company of idiots for a few years. Its better than a shootout.


BLM did de-escalate. They do not and should not need to "share" the land with this asshole on his terms. He can abide with the regulations like the other ranchers do or fark off.

Twenty farking years is pretty goddamn patient.
2014-04-15 08:51:31 AM  
1 votes:

ScaryBottles: doglover: nd quite frankly anyone who's never fought a woman doesn't even know the meaning of courage.
So do you fight women often?


No. But I read a lot. It saves me the trouble of dying every few minutes to learn "What happens when...?"

Historically, women that DO get into combat shame the men not in prowess but in courage and/or ruthlessness. The Comanche used to let their women torture prisoners. They were especially fond of cutting off noses and slow roasting. By contrast, in WW2, oftentimes men would give their enemies the chance to surrender BEFORE the flamethrowers were deployed, and they would routinely shoot enemy combatants with fatal amounts of napalm on their bodies for mercy's sake.
2014-04-15 08:51:23 AM  
1 votes:

Truther: TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.


Anyone who seriously considers using firepower against the US government because the government is legally and rightfully executing its authority shouldn't be permitted to own a gun.

The NSA should track down everyone shown pointing guns at the BLM agents from the photos and charge them all with terrorism.
2014-04-15 08:47:30 AM  
1 votes:

Snarfangel: Because People in power are Stupid: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 521x350]
[img.fark.net image 521x350]

Of course. When someone gets a freebie for twenty years, they become dependent on it, and see it as an entitlement.


Pretty Gottverdammt much. And folks are lining up to defend him...because?
2014-04-15 08:44:22 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: *On the one hand, the government tried to basically put him out of business, reducing the head he could graze on that land from 1,000 to 150.  Think about how you'd feel if the government said you were no longer allowed to work 40 hours a week, just 6 hours, and that you weren't getting any compensation for the lost wages.


You are smarter than this.

The govt no longer giving him a good deal on grazing land can't intellegently or honestly be equated to limiting how many hours you work.

dittybopper: "It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


When was OWS heavily armed and getting ready for gun battles with the govt?
2014-04-15 08:37:38 AM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: Ah, the liberal internet hate machine and propaganda force is getting in to full swing I see. I figure by the end of the month the militia group will be terrorists and modern day fascists or something.

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.


Which things that "liberals claim to" believe "should" make them support this rancher?

They are using threats of violence to attempt to change government action, what does that make them in your book?
2014-04-15 08:36:26 AM  
1 votes:
randomjsa:

By the way if liberals really believed in the things they claim to, they would be supporting the Bundy Ranch. but liberals don't actually believe the things they claim to.

What liberal belief do you think is being contradicted here?  Please be specific and cite a source for this common liberal belief.
2014-04-15 08:33:10 AM  
1 votes:
Why is Glenn Beck so upset with these guys? Aren't they dead center of his target demographic?

Did Bundy come out and say that Goldline is a scam? Was Beck planning on irrigating the desert with tears?
2014-04-15 08:32:00 AM  
1 votes:

Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: HotWingConspiracy: Cold_Sassy: jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?

I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?

That's you're defense of this farking clown?

He's a clown, you're a nutball.

So that's really your defense?

Why yes, yes it is. I see from bothering to read the entire thread, that I am not alone in my opinion.


I haven't seen anything this weak from anyone else in thread.
2014-04-15 08:25:58 AM  
1 votes:
Hmmm, just like Hamas.

Stay classy, tea derpers.
2014-04-15 08:23:17 AM  
1 votes:

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?

Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.

Excellent counterpoint. You are a master debater and a cunning linguist.


Your speculation and bizarre attempt to somehow shame me with fake feminism wasn't much of a point.

Let me know when you find a quote from one of them stating they're happy to soak up bullets for the cause.
2014-04-15 08:22:51 AM  
1 votes:

evilbryan: Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.


Do you really think his response to creditors coming to repossess his assets is going to be any different than his response to the BLM coming to make sure his cows don't stray from his land?  Like I said, to him and the people who stood with him, any government action is too much government action.
2014-04-15 08:18:13 AM  
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?

The Blaze is usually pretty suspect when it comes to accuracy of reporting, but if they're going to call out a conservative group for being a bunch of calculating cowards, I'll tend to believe them.  It's against their agenda to make the Bundy folks look bad, so I can't see any reason why they'd make that up.

The photos from the standoff day seemed to have a lot of women and children around, which is the only reason why I think the BLM made the right choice to stand down.  It would have been bad press if some unarmed civilians were killed.  If it was just the crazy militia dudes and gun nuts standing around, I would have been all for the police rolling in and showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized armed government response.

For now, the BLM should just attach a lien on the ranch for the unpaid grazing fees, foreclose on the property when he fails to pay, and throw him out on his ass unceremoniously.


This is EXACTLY what 2nd Amendment Rights advocates are worried about - tyrants that say "Showing those yahoos how little their precious 2nd amendment rights will do for them when faced with an organized government response"

I am sure the scary part about what you said is that you have no clue why it's disturbing to those who support the very right you would happily take away from them.
2014-04-15 08:17:47 AM  
1 votes:

Launch Code: America is finally seeing how the obama administration treats citizens. 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, no problem. A rancher letting his cows eat some grass and It's time to send in the troops. It's disgusting how quickly barry will send storm troopers and snipers to harass and threaten American Citizens.
Why do democrats hate hard working Americans so much?


2/100.  You get credit for signing your name.
2014-04-15 08:16:04 AM  
1 votes:
Put a lien on everything he owns, get the money back. Then he can rebuild honestly, like the bootstrappy sovereign citizen he is.
2014-04-15 08:12:35 AM  
1 votes:

Abuse Liability: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?


Well being strong, independent bullet shields, I'm sure one of them can speak up and verify what you're alleging.
2014-04-15 08:11:21 AM  
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.


Unfortunatley, no. The Federal Goverment is pretty much here to stay.
 .
2014-04-15 08:09:47 AM  
1 votes:
Since Bundy's cattle are trespassing on BLM's land and threatening the habitat of endangered creatures, they should treat his cattle as pests and just shoot any they find on their property. Just put a few snipers out there with long range sights and tell them it's time for target practice, men. Bundy will catch on real quick and I bet his cattle will soon be staying right where they ought to be.

/or he'll pay up pretty fast
2014-04-15 08:04:36 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.


Stereotyping is fun, especially when you include sexism. You are aware that these women are probably complicit in this "official" plan. Turns out they're pretty autonomous and are just as capable of manipulation as men. They're using themselves as a shield, or are only men capable of planning and leading semi-organized resistance?
2014-04-15 07:58:38 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


You don't deserve an empire if you aren't willing to create a fresh heap of skulls, America. That includes domestic skulls.

It baffles me that this criminal is some kind of folk hero. "Little guy", my left one.
2014-04-15 07:56:35 AM  
1 votes:
A tactic employed the world over.  No one cares if hardened soldiers are killed, but at least some will if women and/or children are.  Anytime there was a drone strike in Afghanistan, the U.S. would say they hit the target and the insurgents would say we hit a children's hospital or something like that.
2014-04-15 07:53:37 AM  
1 votes:

doglover: It's how you beat the US. You can't win against the US government in a firefight or the courts. They're too big and too powerful. But they're HIGHLY vulnerable to bad press and pretty bipolar of government.

You just have make the problem thorny enough for them to back down or do something stupid. When they do either, the little guy can win. That's how the Taliban has been fighting the war Afganistan. Sure, we've got military superiority in the field, but they basically control the country no matter what we do because the country wants them. We kill one, two more pop up to avenge him a little later.

It's the same thing here. The women are just as batshiat crazy anti-govenment as the men. The difference is that if a few of them get shot, the whole country will rise up against the BLM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THEIR(the women's) FAULT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE STUPID RANCH, and Bundy might just win his retarded little war.

Now there's various ways to counter all this without it coming to bloodshed, but if the BLM is as bungling as the ATF, don't be surprised if they're not even tried. But you have to give them militia people props. They know what their odds are.


The Afghans WANT the Taliban? You're farking crazy dude. They HATE the Taliban. In fact, public opinion in Afghanistan of the insurgents is so low that even blowing up a mosque to kill dozens of worshiping people inside does nothing. It literally can't sink any lower. That's why they can use bizarre tactics.
2014-04-15 07:51:56 AM  
1 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".

Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?


War hasn't actually changed at all in the fundamentals. Be it ants, chimps, or humans in any epoch, the fundamentals remain the same. That's why Starcraft, the US military, and the Mongols all use the Zerg Rush.
2014-04-15 07:50:01 AM  
1 votes:

vpb: dittybopper:

I know that's supposed to make people think you are smart, but it actually does the opposite.

Except with people who are familiar with Glen Beck.


Well, there you go again.
2014-04-15 07:45:27 AM  
1 votes:

jntaylor63: HotWingConspiracy: WTF Indeed: You know if you ignore these people, they go away.

How does that work? They showed up to defend a wealthy deadbeat. Uncle Sam is going to collect.

THIS.

File tax leans, cut off whatever AG support he can file for, seize his bank accounts.

What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


I can think of a LOT of other "Americans" that don't pay taxes who deal drugs, take drugs, join gangs,  sit around on their a*s all day and see how many women they can knock up.  How is this guy any worse?
2014-04-15 07:40:23 AM  
1 votes:
If this is true, this makes the Bundy people no better than Al Quida (or however the hell that bunch spells their organization's name.)
2014-04-15 07:38:11 AM  
1 votes:

jntaylor63: What amazes me on this is all of the local and national GOP support this guy was getting.  This man is a deadbeat and DOES NOT PAY HIS taxes.  Isn't this guy a moocher?  A taker?


All is forgiven if you claim to support the GOP. You're only on the shiat list if you don't vote Republican.
2014-04-15 07:34:53 AM  
1 votes:
Refusing to shoot women on the front lines would be sexist.
2014-04-15 07:32:26 AM  
1 votes:
Not trying to defend the Bundy ranch crowd, but a questionable quote from one guy there about a strategy some of them were supposedly considering does not make it a "strict policy".
2014-04-15 07:30:51 AM  
1 votes:
BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.
2014-04-15 07:28:56 AM  
1 votes:
Man, if these guys lost Glenn Beck who do they have left?
2014-04-15 07:21:26 AM  
1 votes:

The Muthaship: As Sun Tzu said, "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak".


Of course, Sun Tzu also said crap like, "Generally, operations of war require one thousand fast four-horse chariots, one thousand four-horse wagons covered in leather, and one hundred thousand mailed troops," so what does he know?
2014-04-15 07:17:54 AM  
1 votes:

abhorrent1: the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck

[c2.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


If you know who the media is biased against, you can usualy do a decent job of filtering out derp from articles. That's how I can watch Fox News without thinking Obongo is gonna personaly come to my house to take my guns and go to the old folk's home to shoot my grandmother.

But are there actualy any good news stations that don't feature the Obama fear of Fox or the Obama dick sucking fest of everyone else?
2014-04-15 07:00:43 AM  
1 votes:
I'm a little dyslexic this morning- I keep reading it as "Brady Bunch".
2014-04-15 06:50:33 AM  
1 votes:
The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack

So this is the oh-so-credible nugget we're going to launch another Bundy thread with?

Are the chicks in question at least hot?
 
Displayed 209 of 209 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report