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(Talking Points Memo)   Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 673
    More: Asinine, Ted Bundy, Bundy Ranch, police officers, firefighters, foreign exchange reserves  
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12571 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 11:45:05 PM  

ourbigdumbmouth: grumpfuff: someonelse: ourbigdumbmouth: I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Well, that would be surprising. Who is genuinely calling for this?

The voices in his head.


http://www.fark.com/comments/8220706/90308286#c90308286
DrDeildel:
// because that's what they are - terrorists - plain and simple
// part of me wants the Feds to lay waste to the place, Waco-style, just to make the point that laws mean things even if you own a Second Amendment "solution"
// another part wants them to die the slow death of preponderating court decisions and loss of assets - peaceful resolution


http://www.fark.com/comments/8220706/90310228#c90310228
partisan222:
/screw this jackass. Pump him and all his well-armed terrorists full of drone missiles


They are taking up arms against the United States in support of a thief.
That kind of crap punches my buttons, too.
 
2014-04-16 12:32:43 AM  

Repo Man: realistrabbit: lets, at least be honest. This was a comment from one guy, from one militia (or maybe not even), giving his ignorant thoughts. This does not mean he represents the protesters or the militia in or the Bundy family. As much fun as it is to jump on the bandwagon bashing the wingnuts, let us at least be realistic.

Let's take a look at the bigger picture.

First of all, I don't believe for a minute that all this is about an endangered turttle. that is plain old bullocks. I mean really, heavily armed federal agents to protect a turttle that has lived alongside these cattle for well over a century? come on, my 13yr old can come up with better excuses than that!

Second, if this is about BLM land fees, why did it happen now? why wait 20yrs? I know the courts are slow, but not that slow. If I don't pay my taxes you can bet it won't take 20yrs for them to take everything I own.

Third, Senator Reid, I know there have been some theories thrown around accusing him with faulty logic, but why is he throwing his two cents into the ring, claiming "it's not over"? Is he just trying to cause trouble? Doesn't he realize he's not law enforcement, he's not the governer, and it's none of his business?


I don't claim to know what is going on out there, but I sure as fark don't believe the story we are being fed by the media, the government, or the Bundy's/supporters.
I've noticed a very real correlation between those who uncritically accept looney conspiracy theories, and people who don't seem to understand the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The words are not synonyms.


I know there is a difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The fact is turtle is easier to spell and you got the point so I couldn't care less.

Also, learn to read and comprehend, I made it bloody farking obvious that I didn't buy into the conspiracy theories.
 
2014-04-16 12:37:07 AM  

hardinparamedic: realistrabbit: I know they are different, I was just making the point that as slow as the courts are, they aren't that slow.

They are if someone continues to file legal motions and delays. Federal appellate court cases can literally last decades if they aren't politically expedient to handle. And it hasn't gotten better since 2008, when the Republican Party started trying to block as many court appointments as possible to fill vacancies in the federal judiciary.

realistrabbit: So where does he get the authority to claim it's not over when everyone else said it was? It has nothing to do with him and he legally has no say in it. It just sounds to me like he was trying to play off his being named in the conspiracy theory to stir up more trouble.

The incident, AFAIK, is occurring in is congressional district, and he was named as a party involved in this early on by Alex Jones, which the media then ran with.


But, he's not involved so why get involved, especially when what he said goes against what is actually happening?
 
2014-04-16 12:42:34 AM  

notto: realistrabbit:
Third, Senator Reid, I know there have been some theories thrown around accusing him with faulty logic, but why is he throwing his two cents into the ring, claiming "it's not over"? Is he just trying to cause trouble? Doesn't he realize he's not law enforcement, he's not the governer, and it's none of his business?

So, the Republican senator should stay out of it as well, correct?  They are the representatives to the Federal government from the state of Nevada.  I don't see why he would consider what happens on federal land in his state to be 'none of his business'.


Yes, both senators should stay out of it. It is not of any concern to the senate. He may have a personal concern for the matter, as any resident of NV may, but his position provides him no legal grounds to act beyond the Senate or to personally protest. Declaring "it's not over" is really just him talking out of his ass.
 
2014-04-16 12:44:29 AM  

IlGreven: realistrabbit: I don't claim to know what is going on out there, but I sure as fark don't believe the story we are being fed by the media, the government, or the Bundy's/supporters.

...so, basically, you know absolutely nothing about this case. Good to know.


Which is slightly more than you know. At least I know that I know nothing about it.
 
2014-04-16 12:49:38 AM  

realistrabbit: Repo Man: realistrabbit: lets, at least be honest. This was a comment from one guy, from one militia (or maybe not even), giving his ignorant thoughts. This does not mean he represents the protesters or the militia in or the Bundy family. As much fun as it is to jump on the bandwagon bashing the wingnuts, let us at least be realistic.

Let's take a look at the bigger picture.

First of all, I don't believe for a minute that all this is about an endangered turttle. that is plain old bullocks. I mean really, heavily armed federal agents to protect a turttle that has lived alongside these cattle for well over a century? come on, my 13yr old can come up with better excuses than that!

Second, if this is about BLM land fees, why did it happen now? why wait 20yrs? I know the courts are slow, but not that slow. If I don't pay my taxes you can bet it won't take 20yrs for them to take everything I own.

Third, Senator Reid, I know there have been some theories thrown around accusing him with faulty logic, but why is he throwing his two cents into the ring, claiming "it's not over"? Is he just trying to cause trouble? Doesn't he realize he's not law enforcement, he's not the governer, and it's none of his business?


I don't claim to know what is going on out there, but I sure as fark don't believe the story we are being fed by the media, the government, or the Bundy's/supporters.
I've noticed a very real correlation between those who uncritically accept looney conspiracy theories, and people who don't seem to understand the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The words are not synonyms.

I know there is a difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The fact is turtle is easier to spell and you got the point so I couldn't care less.

Also, learn to read and comprehend, I made it bloody farking obvious that I didn't buy into the conspiracy theories.




And yet you state that you reject the facts of the case, which are public record. And are really only disputed by Mr. Bundy, and his fellow sovereign nitwits.
 
2014-04-16 12:54:37 AM  

notto: realistrabbit: He is a Senator, not a governor, not a judge, not even blm or law enforcement. So where does he get the authority to claim it's not over when everyone else said it was?

Who else has said it was over?  I don't think his statement was one of authority and he never claimed or led anyone to believe it was.  Is a Senator not allowed to speak about the activities of the government in the state he represents?

You really are stretching here.   I guess state reps should not comment on federal immigration laws and actions, right?


Not if it only serves to feed into conspiracy.

Sure, they should speak openly about federal immigration laws and actions, people deserve to know what their reps are voting for, they should however leave the enforcement it the agency responsible for enforcement of said laws. Unless Reid plans on going out there himself and settling it (horrible idea btw), he should steer clear of it and avoid adding to the conspiracy that will only cause more trouble for everyone involved from the protesters to the BLM.
 
2014-04-16 01:03:29 AM  
Classic.

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-04-16 01:13:09 AM  

Repo Man: Classic.

[pbs.twimg.com image 598x345]


LOL. Si Si Si!!!
 
2014-04-16 01:28:44 AM  
I have to pay my bills. What makes jowls any different? Freedom? Hannity? You mean you have nothing better to do with your time than to act out COD VIII Jeep Cherokee Edition Limited on an overpass? 600 for nothin' I say. Don't like it? Vote. Don't do nothin? Take a civics class. Still disenfranchised (mad) and mad? Call somebody and just say hi and don't be a dick about it.
 
2014-04-16 01:38:53 AM  

ciberido: I've noticed a very real correlation between those who uncritically accept looney conspiracy theories, and people who don't seem to understand the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The words are not synonyms.


They're just contrarians . The Opposite People.
 
2014-04-16 01:57:58 AM  

Fista-Phobia: ciberido: I've noticed a very real correlation between those who uncritically accept looney conspiracy theories, and people who don't seem to understand the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. The words are not synonyms.

They're just contrarians . The Opposite People.


No, they're not.
 
2014-04-16 03:00:02 AM  
I'm pretty sure, as soon a the blah man goes back to haunting the Academy instead of `spooking'  the `cattle', the chaff will fall away and the `true believers' will end up passing through the needle's eye and right on into to the Florence lockup (of course, with another Clinton on the way, the boobs might serve as well as the blah has).

LeRoy M. Schweitzer, the one-time leader of the Montana Freeman and a dean in the antigovernment "Patriot" movement, has died of apparent natural causes in the federal "Supermax" prison in Florence, Colo. The 73-year-old Schweitzer was serving a 22-year federal prison sentence related to crimes prosecuted after the longest police-standoff siege in U.S. history.
Schweitzer died at a time when the so-called "sovereign citizens" movement, which shared most of his beliefs about the lack of federal government authority, is resurgent. Patriot groups, which include sovereign citizens organizations, have grown explosively, from 149 in 2008 to 824 last year.
When he was sentenced in 1997, Schweitzer - still defiant of the federal government and its court system - stood gagged, chained and handcuffed before the judge. After his gag was briefly removed, Schweitzer shouted that was a citizen of "the country of Montana," not of the United States.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/09/21/montana-freeman-leader-dies -i n-prison/

Wonder if he was humming that old Stone's song `...please come see me in the citadel...'?  Anyway, wonder whose skirts the current herd will be hiding behind if they're about to be snatched up by Mrs. Clinton? Maybe we'll see if the power of the pussy will be put to some other use.
 
2014-04-16 07:29:06 AM  
realistrabbit:
Not if it only serves to feed into conspiracy.

Yes, let's cater our words to the ear of the conspiracy theorist and not allow a LAW maker to comment on LAW enforcement.

The BLM has said in a statement that they will continue to pursue Bundy through legal and administrative actions.

It is not over.
 
2014-04-16 08:13:23 AM  
>>notto: LoioshASH: As I understand it,. . .   UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

>> >>Your understanding is contradicted by reality.  What private company 'was interested in purchasing the land'?  Please be specific.

I'm not going to think for you.  Go out and find the information on any major news website.  Read the facts.  Decide for yourself.

Or keep buying into the "We're right/They're evil" paradigm....the "US/THEM" mentality that makes manipulating a population so easy....and "Dance, puppet, dance!"
 
2014-04-16 09:02:45 AM  

LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.


What cronies? What sale? Are you talking about the solar farm that was proposed 200 miles away?
They told him to get his cattle off the land 20 years ago, when they revoked his grazing rights, after he refused to follow the rules, pay the fees, and keep his herd at a sustainable size. Three court rulings in the intervening years said the same, but instead the number of cows have increased, and they are now trespassing on land his family never had the right to use.
 
2014-04-16 09:19:22 AM  

Dansker: LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.


Follow Reid's money.
 
2014-04-16 09:35:27 AM  

LoioshASH: >>notto: LoioshASH: As I understand it,. . .   UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

>> >>Your understanding is contradicted by reality.  What private company 'was interested in purchasing the land'?  Please be specific.

I'm not going to think for you.  Go out and find the information on any major news website.  Read the facts.  Decide for yourself.

Or keep buying into the "We're right/They're evil" paradigm....the "US/THEM" mentality that makes manipulating a population so easy....and "Dance, puppet, dance!"


So your understanding doesn't include the name of the private company that is supposedly interested in purchasing the land?  Seems your understanding is lacking some important details.   Maybe you really don't have an understanding of the situation at all.
 
2014-04-16 09:58:35 AM  

Deep Contact: Dansker: LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.

Follow Reid's money.


How many times must this stupid talking point be debunked? Even Glenn Beck is saying it's not true.

/at least one more
 
2014-04-16 11:50:36 AM  

grumpfuff: Deep Contact: Dansker: LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.

Follow Reid's money.

How many times must this stupid talking point be debunked? Even Glenn Beck is saying it's not true.

/at least one more


Yeah, right, Senator I'm not a criminal Reid.
 
2014-04-16 11:53:32 AM  
ciberido:
Well, if it helps, I agree with Baz744, and I gave a longer explanation of why in an earlier Fark thread, so now  you know of two people who defend the "free speech zones."  I'm not delighted with them, but they are a necessary evil.  As for what else you said, I agree with you that they can be, and are, abused for the convenience of the government.  But getting rid of them altogether would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, as the saying goes.  Better instead to have regulations that require them to be big enough, and close enough, so that government agencies can't abuse them the way you describe.

What evidence is there that the benefit of these zones outweighs the repression of free speech that they cause? What has been prevented because we have free speech zones? A repeat of the WTO riots in Seattle, riots that likely would have been far less serious if law enforcement had not overreacted? Hell, check the first picture on the Wikipedia article about those riots. Protesters are sitting or kneeling and an officer is just standing there blasting them in the face with pepper spray. Can you say "abuse of power"?

Perhaps we could have avoided the infamous Chicago riots during the democratic national convention of 1968. Oh wait, those were primarily the fault of Daly's police beating the fark out of people.

As for regulations, who's going to justly enforce these regulations? What's "big enough"? What's "close enough"? What constitutes a significant enough security threat that the zones should be there at all? These all seem to be judgment calls and who besides law enforcement who will get to make those calls. If the general public disagree, how do they challenge it? The event would likely be over by the time any challenge could be heard by any independent oversight.
 
2014-04-16 12:14:27 PM  
Pretty much the same with all these militant groups, regardless of denomination: ready to shed blood and die for the cause, then "oh shiat they're shooting at us! Toss the women in front of them and RUN!".
 
2014-04-16 05:39:17 PM  

Deep Contact: grumpfuff: Deep Contact: Dansker: LoioshASH: As I understand it, the rancher refused to sign a voluntary contract 20 years ago regarding public use land.  The government didn't have a leg to stand on for 20 years because he hadn't signed that contract and they knew that so there was no issue...for 20 years.  UNTIL a private company was interested in purchasing the land and the government needed to get his cattle off the property in order to make the sale.

This is a question of government being able to bully private citizens in order to make their cronies big bucks in back room deal.

Follow Reid's money.

How many times must this stupid talking point be debunked? Even Glenn Beck is saying it's not true.

/at least one more

Yeah, right, Senator I'm not a criminal Reid.


I'm sorry you're so gullible that you believe obviously lies you could disprove yourself with 5 minutes of googling.
 
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