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(Talking Points Memo)   Bundy Ranch 'militia' had strict women-first policy...in case of firefights with federal agency officers   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 673
    More: Asinine, Ted Bundy, Bundy Ranch, police officers, firefighters, foreign exchange reserves  
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12487 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2014 at 7:05 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-15 12:32:20 PM

LoioshASH: As I understand it ...


You don't.
 
2014-04-15 12:33:12 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Mikey1969: They don't need this guy's goddamn "land", there are a billion better places in Nevada to build this plant, and the state is 81% federal land

No one is taking this guys land.  Are you sure you're in the right thread?  The reason I ask is that you seem to be talking about an entirely different series of events.

grumpfuff: dittybopper: TFA SAYS THEY MERELY CONSIDERED IT AS AN OPTION, NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY IMPLEMENTED IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED IT, EVEN CONSIDERING IT AS AN OPTION IS FARKING VILE, DISGUSTING, AND COWARDLY.

I'm sure that if one of dittybopper's neighbors came up and told them they had a written plan to rape his mother, had all the items already in a bag ready to go, but decided against it, I'm sure he'd be fine with it.


I'm pointing out the 'OMG!! The feds totally want this guy's land!' nut jobs, hence, the part where I state "They don't need this guy's goddamn "land"" maybe you missed that part when you quoted it? Or maybe you've missed the nutballs who keep insisting that the government wanted "his" land for some farking solar project? That's OK, it's hard when you quote two sentences. One can get lost in the background.

The long and short of it is that they don't want "his" land, and they aren't moving the cattle because they want some offsite part of a solar project, since there is WAY too much desert between where the butte is, and where the proposed solar zone is.

But whatever...
 
2014-04-15 12:33:58 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I wonder, if they had done this within three years of Bundy failing to pay the fines, would reub then be whining how mean and fast acting and unfair the federal government is?


Help me understand why you "wonder" about that. I sure don't. : )

Hey, did I tell you how the Nevada constitution's paramount allegiance clause renders "in bad faith" any claim by Bundy and his thugs that they acted on any principle whatsoever other than self-entitled violence?


Yeah. Nevada's paramount allegiance clause expressly acknowledges the legitimacy of the federal government, the Supreme Court, and by necessary implication the lower federal courts. It also expressly condemns the actions of thugs like Cliven Bundy and his gangster mob. Thus, when they claim to recognize "state sovereignty," or the supremacy of Nevada law, we know they're lying.
 
2014-04-15 12:34:16 PM

Mikey1969: neversubmit: Google cache

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.

That's a great link... Here's something that was buried pretty deeply(As in all around your quote):

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle
One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.  Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.

Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted
A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed. 
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.

Examples of Public Concerns
Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained abou ...


But all that refutes the narrative that this is a Noble and Brave Pioneer. Why do you hate America so much?
 
2014-04-15 12:34:47 PM

inglixthemad: trappedspirit: IlGreven: Again, this can have a peaceful end (in which case he gets away with his transgression and emboldens many others to do similar), or it can end justly (in which case, however it gets there, the federal government will have to fire on him and his supporters, thus getting blood on their hands and making him a martyr, and emboldening many others to do similar).  It cannot have both.

ftfy

Actually, the simple way is to just kill the cows when they graze illegally. Send him a registered letter, post a few signs, and take an ad out in the local papers. Pretty cheap really. Then just let a couple choppers, tanks, and LAV's have some fun target practice if he tries to graze there again without ponying up the cash and getting the permits.

Unless he's got enough people to shield every single cow, he'll get the message quick. He can try suing the government for the value lost, and they can counter sue for back payments, penalties, fines for illegal grazing, and add in the cost of the crews / ammo to enforce the ban when they had to wipe out his herd.

Poetic in a way.


I like that. Good strategy
 
2014-04-15 12:36:00 PM

JohnnyC: After seeing things like that dude with the rifle aimed at people from behind that cement embankment and the various other asshats threatening violence if they don't get their way.... The obvious conclusion I'm lead to there is that those people want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans.

Given that the government folks backed off a bit out of fear of safety for everyone involved, I can only conclude that they aren't interested in shooting their fellow Americans (or even seeing anyone get hurt).

So whether or not the "militia" folks were planning on using women as a shield or not... it doesn't seem very hard to figure out who the good folks are here.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


What's funny is that if you watch the "video that facebook doesn't want you to see", the militia types are making fun of the feds 'hiding behind their guns' when the conflict ends... Seriously, the guys who rushed in with their guns ready are making fun of the cops for carrying their guns.
 
2014-04-15 12:36:09 PM

Satanic_Hamster: ciberido: On the plus side, there have been several people for whom I hold more respect than than I did before this whole Bundy thing hit Fark. Mainly people whom I had marked down as right wing nutjobs who have demonstrated that, while their politics may differ greatly from mine, are not the complete idiots I had feared they were.

Unless, however, they're running the OTHER troll accounts and want to build up the cred of their OTHER troll accounts by not being TOTALLY insane.


Now you're just being paranoid.
 
2014-04-15 12:37:09 PM
Does this stupid farking situation qualify as armed insurrection against the US government yet? A sizable force of armed men are preventing the government from enforcing the law.

Put on a lien on this guy's land. If he doesn't pay, he loses the land. That's how it works. If he and/or his supporters shoot at the law enforcement personnel who come to enforce the law, or if they look like they might fire on law enforcement, are warned to put down their weapons, and fail to do so, the consequences are on their own heads. It's the same for any common criminal who goes for a gun when the police show up. Why should these people be any different?

It's kind of amazing how many conservative hypocrites, but I repeat myself, defend this dead beat and his asshole buddies who are ready to use deadly force to defend his "right" to theft. He justifiably owes over a million bucks to the government. Pay up or lose your land, asshole, just like the rest of us when we don't pay our bills.

dittybopper:
Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


You're comparing the OWS protest movement with an armed militia pointing their guns at federal agents who are simply trying to enforce the law against some asshole who owes the government $1.2 million? That's the stupidest farking thing I've seen in the thread. So far.

MythDragon:
But are there actualy any good news stations that don't feature the Obama fear of Fox or the Obama dick sucking fest of everyone else?

Since "everyone else" is only in the tank for Obama in your deranged little head, the answer is yes, there are other news outlets that are far better than Fox.
 
2014-04-15 12:40:06 PM

neversubmit: The most unsettling aspect of this new era of insanity isn't the low level of intellect required to accept this ever growing list of coincidences. Stupid people are nothing new, after all. What should frighten all honest thinkers is the level of laziness and arrogance required to passively accept the cartoonishly fake version of reality put forward by corporate media. It's beyond a simple inability to think critically. There seems to be a palpable hatred, an open contempt for the very concept of critical thought, as if a large portion of the human population have simply thrown in the towel and have begun to run as fast as they can from this very human quality.


You used to be sane.  What happened?
 
2014-04-15 12:41:23 PM

JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.


And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.
 
2014-04-15 12:43:28 PM

notto: Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.


www.350z-tech.com
 
2014-04-15 12:45:30 PM

ciberido: notto: Nutsac_Jim:

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

Actually, that picture is from during the Bush years.

[www.350z-tech.com image 640x434]


That's a cute picture. But it does make me worry that ink got in the baby's eyes. : (
 
2014-04-15 12:45:40 PM

Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.


Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.
 
2014-04-15 12:45:58 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]


Wanna bet that Bundy exploits a few of those illegals for cheap labor, or do you honestly believe Bundy is out there shoveling the shiat himself?
 
2014-04-15 12:46:17 PM

someonelse: But it feels true, dammit.


Cause usually the government doesn't get off it's ass to do anything unless someone in power is profiting off it.
 
2014-04-15 12:46:37 PM
these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.
 
2014-04-15 12:47:44 PM

hubiestubert: But all that refutes the narrative that this is a Noble and Brave Pioneer. Why do you hate America so much?


Because, America?

Oh, wait...
 
2014-04-15 12:47:50 PM

dittybopper: Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Except that there are differences in response-
1. One group is an NRA and gun loving crowd while the other were peaceful unarmed protesters
2. The unarmed group was beaten, pepper sprayed, maced, tased...
3. OWS was protesting things like inequality and the lack of reprisal on the Wall Street crooks, the other groups is defending a thief
4. The Thief defending groups is all white, while there were definitely brownish hued folks in OWS groups...

hmmm, important elements, yet while one group was beaten and otherwise abused while peacefully protesting in the manner allowed in the constitution, the other group was hardly advanced on in a similar manner, did not face nearly the physical abuse of the OWS protestors...   funny, one group actually had an honorable protest and were beaten and abused yet I would bet that everyone of the Bundy luvvin crowd hated the OWS protests, thought they all deserved every spray, every baton to the head and so on...  because...
 
2014-04-15 12:48:16 PM

lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.


That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.
 
2014-04-15 12:49:21 PM

Fissile: Nutsac_Jim: Republican has cows eating grass

[cdn.rt.com image 410x230]

Undocumented democrats flowing across the border, costing billions?
[vote29.com image 409x265]

[img.fark.net image 160x186]

Wanna bet that Bundy exploits a few of those illegals for cheap labor, or do you honestly believe Bundy is out there shoveling the shiat himself?


Actually, I don't think there's much shiat to shovel - it appears most of it ends up on the federal lands...
 
2014-04-15 12:49:49 PM

rev. dave: Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.


The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


On another note, where did this idea that they were using women as human shields come from? Is it not possible that the women involved are there for the same reason as the men? Or is this just an additional stereotype pulled out for this discussion?

What we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens. This is regardless of how you feel about the participants.
 
2014-04-15 12:50:21 PM
Bunny ranch militia:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-15 12:51:37 PM
inglixthemad:
Actually, the simple way is to just kill the cows when they graze illegally. Send him a registered letter, post a few signs, and take an ad out in the local papers. Pretty cheap really. Then just let a couple choppers, tanks, and LAV's have some fun target practice if he tries to graze there again without ponying up the cash and getting the permits.

Unless he's got enough people to shield every single cow, he'll get the message quick. He can try suing the government for the value lost, and they can counter sue for back payments, penalties, fines for illegal grazing, and add in the cost of the crews / ammo to enforce the ban when they had to wipe out his herd.


It might work, but the cows don't deserve to die that way just because their owner is a treasonous assclown.
 
2014-04-15 12:52:28 PM

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: BTW, the article merely says they considered it, that it was a possible strategy, not that they actually agreed on it.

From a public relations standpoint, it makes sense.  Especially if they are unarmed.  Make the other side look like the bad guys.

To a gun nut, using women as human shields is good public relations.

Doesn't matter if it's a gun nut, or Occupy Wall Street.  In fact, OWS used a bunch of different groups, including elderly women and children.

"It's not bad when *WE* do it!".


Yeah, because this is exactly like OWS. Seriously, one of your 'scripts may have turned. Check the date...

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-15 12:56:14 PM

Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.


I think you mean "unthinking lackeys to the Socialists that run the nation like Third World Despots" and "jackbooted thugs and fascists." It's easy to get "brave soldiers and police" mixed up with those, depending on what side of the line you're on. They're brave and noble when they're pulling folks out of rubble, but when they pull guns on "hardworking entrepreneurs" they quickly make the leap that all our police are stormtroopers.

It's an easy mistake. Support the troops and support the police, up until you get pulled over or ticketed, or the Sheriff's Department serves you with a summons. In theory they love our boys in blue and our soldiers, up until the bills start coming due...
 
2014-04-15 12:56:55 PM

Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.
 
2014-04-15 12:57:38 PM

ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.


I missed the part where the Occupy movement armed themselves and threatened to shoot federal officers doing their job.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:01 PM

way south: This text is now purple: way south: One could say that it was an example of what happens when you don't leave people alone.
Of course we can't know what was really going through McVeigh's head, but revenge was among the theories. Abuses by the fed aren't soon forgotten or forgiven by some people.

McVeigh was pretty open that his motive was reprisal for Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Aye, that's what he said.
The question is if he would have not been a terrorist if the fed had not botched both situations. There's no way to prove he wouldn't have found some other grievance to base his attack on.
Violent farkwits never think they're in the wrong. They always find a justification.


He had no connection to the Branch Davidians and no connection to Randy Weaver. Because of that, it is probably a safe bet that he would have found some other equally disturbing action to justify the batshiat insane "response" he had, even if those federal actions were simple and every day things.

Crazy people do crazy shiat. They don't need a George Bush or Bill Clinton, they'll use whomever they want as an excuse.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:39 PM

HeadLever: Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.

Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.


She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.
 
2014-04-15 12:58:44 PM

Mr. Breeze: rev. dave: Typical terrorist tactics.   Use human shields.   But snipers are able to deal with that.  They are lucky they all still have heads today.

The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.


On another note, where did this idea that they were using women as human shields come from? Is it not possible that the women involved are there for the same reason as the men? Or is this just an additional stereotype pulled out for this discussion?

What we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens. This is regardless of how you feel about the participants.


RTFA for a change.

The Blaze, the conservative news site affiliated with Glenn Beck, flagged the comments made Monday by Richard Mack, identified as a former Arizona sheriff who had joined more than 1,000 other protesters alongside Cliven Bundy, who has been feuding with BLM over his use of federal land to graze his cattle.

"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front," Mack said in a Fox News clip pulled by The Blaze. "If they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."
 
2014-04-15 12:59:17 PM

Pangea: meat0918: Danger Mouse: So why were they trying to arrest the cows? They did nothing wrong. thy're just cows for farks sake. wouldn't you arrest Bundy?

Seems like there are ways to resolve this without sending in armed rangers for what's basically a tax issue.

They'll summon Bundy to court once his cattle trespass again.

Regardless of whether or not If Bundy is dumb enough to show up, they'll find him in contempt, and arrest him.

He's smart enough to not show up though, unless he really believes the sovereign citizen crap and thinks they can't actually arrest him.

He doesn't own nearly enough land to support the cattle. If they don't stay on the federal land they'll starve to death.

The cattle are in a continuous state of trespass.



He doesn't even know how many cattle he owns. Bundy first claimed he owned "only" 500 head of cattle, then said he hadn't gotten around to branding all of them and there may be as many as 900 out there. Personally I wouldn't mind if BLM started shooting any cattle they found in the area designated as endangered habitat; Bundy has a history of destroying water sources, polluting streams and building illegal reservoirs, all mentioned in BLM's complaint to the court over his actions.
 
2014-04-15 01:00:52 PM

dr_blasto: He had no connection to the Branch Davidians and no connection to Randy Weaver. Because of that, it is probably a safe bet that he would have found some other equally disturbing action to justify the batshiat insane "response" he had, even if those federal actions were simple and every day things.

Crazy people do crazy shiat.


Yeah, McVeigh gives me just a bit of a sense of Brotherhood with Mr. Kaczynski, even if their pet peeves were a bit different.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:11 PM

grumpfuff: She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.


Maybe that is the entire point of the argument.
 
2014-04-15 01:02:49 PM

Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.


No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like.  I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men.  Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:11 PM

Mr. Breeze: hat we should all be worried about is the point in time where A: "free speech zones" were erected, and B: when the government doesn't want you to see what it's about to do to its citizens.


Sorry to rain on your anti-America propaganda, but "free speech zones" are erected to protect First Amendment rights in situations where the potential for violence calls for heavy law enforcement to preserve order.

In a United States presidential debate, for example, the sitting US president and his challenger appear in the same location at the same time, often with other assorted bigwhigs in the general area. By necessity, the attractiveness of this target to America's enemies--foreign and domestic--calls for intense security. Multiply that by the intense feelings and large crowds these events tend to engender, and you get a "spark in the tinderbox" situation, with a serious potential of a lot of people getting hurt.

Despite the sinister connotations both those on the left and more recently (out of convenience) those on the right give to the term, the simple reality is that free speech zones enable safe and orderly speech activities to take place in environments where the government has a sufficiently compelling interest in security and order to arguably justify temporarily and in a limited area suppressing speech altogether.

You can conclusively demonstrate your stupidity or dishonesty by arguing that a situation where persons are showing up with guns to resist the lawful execution of federal prerogatives holds no potential for violence.

Or you can acknowledge that reality, and then ask yourself why federal authorities, who for perfectly legitimate reasons (physical protection of themselves and civilians) need to preserve an orderly environment, might want to designate an area where those who arrive to engage in legitimate (if misguided) 1st Amendment activities can do so safely, without any risk of being confused for one of the domestic terrorists roaming the hills, abusing K-9 units, and pointing sniper rifles at LEOs.
 
2014-04-15 01:04:28 PM
Oh, and for those still foggy on who possibly said this, here. the video where the guy makes the statement.

For those with short attention spans that couldn't read the quote that was actually in TFA, skip ahead to about 8 seconds in. He's right there on camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd61_9hofE
 
2014-04-15 01:05:17 PM

Bendal: He doesn't even know how many cattle he owns. Bundy first claimed he owned "only" 500 head of cattle, then said he hadn't gotten around to branding all of them and there may be as many as 900 out there.


That is probably because he is calving.  He probably doesn't have an accurate account of what has calved and what hasn't.

With a herd of 500 cows, you can expect probably 900 to 950 individual cattle by the end of the calving season.
 
2014-04-15 01:05:37 PM

HeadLever: Mr. Breeze: The government will not shoot first in this matter I can guarantee you that no matter what kind of bloodthirsty kicks you would get out of it.

Vickie Weaver would probably disagree with you a bit on that point.


She was obviously threatening the sniper by brandishing that baby.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:23 PM

grumpfuff: ourbigdumbmouth: these OccupyTheRanch protesters are something else. They are kind of like the Occupy Wallstreet people.

Both are violating laws, trespassing, causing property damage and standing up to authority.

I'm surprised so many occupy people are calling for the ranchers death.

Must be a cognitive dissonance thing.

I missed the part where the Occupy movement armed themselves and threatened to shoot federal officers doing their job.


I missed that too. I did see police forces start firing weapons, though. Maybe the OWS people in Oakland had invisible guns.
 
2014-04-15 01:06:53 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: She's been dead for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have an opinion on the subject.

Maybe that is the entire point of the argument.


Maybe I don't really buy appeals to emotion based on what happened 20 years ago. That whole clusterfark was..well, a clusterfark. It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"
 
2014-04-15 01:09:01 PM

lantawa: No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like. I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men. Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.


This isn't Colorado, pal. It's the internets. Take your opium-induced reverie back to Canada where it belongs.
 
2014-04-15 01:10:21 PM

Mikey1969: Oh, and for those still foggy on who possibly said this, here. the video where the guy makes the statement.

For those with short attention spans that couldn't read the quote that was actually in TFA, skip ahead to about 8 seconds in. He's right there on camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd61_9hofE


The outright denial of the basic facts as supplied by the nutters themselves is really amusing to me. I don't know why, either. Usually it is just annoying this far in.
 
2014-04-15 01:11:05 PM

ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.


Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.
 
2014-04-15 01:12:41 PM

grumpfuff: It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"


You are right,  they didn't run anywhere.  They shot her from a hidden sniper position from several hundred yards away without any warning, let alone any provocation.

After they knew that they killed here they then taunted the family with "Did you sleep well last night, Vicki?" and "Show us the baby, Vicki? We had pancakes," over the loudspeakers.

Very classy as you can plainly  see.....
 
2014-04-15 01:13:00 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.


Problem is we can't do much without getting innocent people shot/killed.  When I say innocent I mean the Federal agents and LEOs.
 
2014-04-15 01:13:02 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: ThighsofGlory: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The more I hear about these traitorous morons, the more I wish the government had just solved the problem with a well-placed JDAM.

You want the US military to kill our citizens on our soil.

Seems to me they're trying their best not to be citizens. They've willfully broken the law, they're threatening federal agents with sniper rifles, they claim they don't recognize the government, they don't know how the legal system work. These aren't people that can be reasoned with, the only thing you can do is make an example out of them. Letting them have their way only emboldens them.


Dropping a few bombs on them turns them into martyrs.
 
2014-04-15 01:13:54 PM

Baz744: lantawa: No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like. I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men. Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.

This isn't Colorado, pal. It's the internets. Take your opium-induced reverie back to Canada where it belongs.


Ahhhhh....more authentic eastside urban gibberish.  It's delightful! Are you from a newly discovered sub-tribe, or just one of the long standing Colt 45 malt liquor clans?
 
2014-04-15 01:14:24 PM

lantawa: Baz744: lantawa: Baz744: JohnnyC: Additionally, I'm pretty sure the only people who are impressed by these "militia" folks are other people who really want an opportunity to shoot their fellow Americans as well.

And let's be clear. The "fellow Americans" they fantasize about shooting are America's best and bravest: our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and LEOs who would be on the front line putting down any seditious revolt.

Well now, that's just some downright authentic eastside urban gibberish.

That's what a "2nd Amendment remedy" looks like; armed confrontation with the military and law enforcement. 2nd Amendment fetishists dream of killing police officers and United States soldiers.

No, that's your nightmare fantasy of what such remedy may look like.  I'm sorry that you're so afraid of the scary white men.  Look to love and unity, tradition and honor, peace and harmony, self-sufficiency (or the best efforts towards it) and dignity, honesty and trustworthiness; all of these, as the preferred "remedy" that these people and other healthy-minded people think of as being the correct paths to follow, and be extended, in life. Force, for them should always be, and is, a last resort.


I'm not seeing any of "these people" (meaning stupid rancher or his new militia friends) showing any peace, harmony, self-sufficiency, dignity or honesty.

I will give the crazy militia nutters loyalty, but certainly not healthy-minded or trustworthy attributes.
 
2014-04-15 01:20:10 PM

HeadLever: grumpfuff: It wasn't a "Feds ran in and shot first un-provoked"

You are right,  they didn't run anywhere.  They shot her from a hidden sniper position from several hundred yards away without any warning, let alone any provocation.

After they knew that they killed here they then taunted the family with "Did you sleep well last night, Vicki?" and "Show us the baby, Vicki? We had pancakes," over the loudspeakers.

Very classy as you can plainly  see.....


Yea, there totally wasn't already one gunfight where a fed was killed already. Also, from what I recall, the shot that killed Vicki had actually been fired at someone else, and hit him first before hitting Vicki.

Trying to act like Vicki was blameless is also silly, as she had fired shots at the feds as well.

As to the loudspeaker bit, the only place I've ever heard that is conspiracy sites.
 
2014-04-15 01:23:24 PM

way south: The question is if he would have not been a terrorist if the fed had not botched both situations. There's no way to prove he wouldn't have found some other grievance to base his attack on.


There's no way to prove he wasn't a vessel of Gozer, either, so long as we're restricting ourselves to unfalsifiable hypotheticals.
 
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